Charlotte ambush.

[Taltarzac725]

Sounds like this was a bit of a mess up on someone's part. Bad tactics applied?

[Stu from NYC]

?????

[Rainger99]

Sounds like this was a bit of a mess up on someone's part. Bad tactics applied?

Assume that you are referring to this story??

Links always help.

4 officers killed, 4 more injured in east Charlotte ambush | wcnc.com (https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/crime/275-c5dbf053-ac40-43cb-a55c-ee159bea0789)

[Taltarzac725]

Assume that you are referring to this story??

Links always help.

4 officers killed, 4 more injured in east Charlotte ambush | wcnc.com (https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/crime/275-c5dbf053-ac40-43cb-a55c-ee159bea0789)

Right.

[EastCoastDawg]

Yes, tricky to keep track when there were so many "Charlotte Ambush" stories hitting the headlines today

[Rainger99]

Yes, tricky to keep track when there were so many "Charlotte Ambush" stories hitting the headlines today

Not everyone reads the headlines or follows the news. It was a relatively minor story in another state.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

A tragedy . . .

[Dusty_Star]

A tragedy . . .

I agree, a terrible tragedy

[Florida Fan]

Sounds like this was a bit of a mess up on someone's part. Bad tactics applied?

My son is a Charlotte police officer. You have absolutely no idea how this incident unfolded. I find your question irresponsible and offensive. This was the worst law enforcement tragedy in years and you want to place blame?

[manaboutown]

Sounds like this was a bit of a mess up on someone's part. Bad tactics applied?

The bad tactic was not having the perp locked up and behind bars. Then this would not have happened. Very sad and avoidable.

[Florida Fan]

The bad tactic was not having the perp locked up and behind bars. Then this would not have happened. Very sad and avoidable.

Exactly. The judicial system 's version of catch & release is directly responsible for today's crime problem. Absolutely no consequences for their actions and they're learning this at an earlier age.

[Southwest737]

My son is a Charlotte police officer. You have absolutely no idea how this incident unfolded. I find your question irresponsible and offensive. This was the worst law enforcement tragedy in years and you want to place blame?
I am not a law enforcement expert but I do possess some common sense. Wouldn’t it be better to snatch up the bad guy when he is out and about instead of his barricaded house full of guns and ammo? These failures happen too often. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

[Marmaduke]

Not everyone reads the headlines or follows the news. It was a relatively minor story in another state.
Actually, with all due respect, it was NOT just a minor story in another state, at all.

However, people who make a choice not to be aware of current events, who are apathetic or who watch only certain networks would never have seen this tragic story as it occurred in North Carolina.

We, who are informed and those of us who 'Back the Blue' mourn for these Marshalls and for the Officers who were injured.

They were the Good Guys and we are absolutely keeping their families and fellow officers left behind, in our thoughts and our prayers.
Empathy. Compassion. Let's consider getting back to the Basics of understanding in this world of upheavel.
These were the good guys in a very fast, evolving, volitile situation.
It's all of our loss when we lose a dedicated, highly trained law enforcement officer, let alone several fine officers and it's all of our tragedy to deal with, whether we want to acknowledge it, or not.

NOT A SMALL STORY and I resent that implication. It is National News.

R.I.P.

[Pat2015]

Not everyone reads the headlines or follows the news. It was a relatively minor story in another state.
A minor story in another state? Far from a minor story, and absolutely tragic.

[Girlcopper]

My son is a Charlotte police officer. You have absolutely no idea how this incident unfolded. I find your question irresponsible and offensive. This was the worst law enforcement tragedy in years and you want to place blame?
Totally agree. Monday morning quarterbacking as usual. Unless you were part of the incident, you have no idea of the pre planning. Have some empathy and sympathy for the families

[Taltarzac725]

A tragedy . . .

It is a tragedy. But I am quite sure many law enforcement agencies are trying to make sure this or something similar does not happen again. A probable sniper perch should be covered in some way before advancing.

[hmbfoxtail]

Sounds like this was a bit of a mess up on someone's part. Bad tactics applied?
Being a retired Deputy, I will never arm chair quarterback ANY other LEOS actions. I don't know how it exactly went down, so how can ANYONE second guess anything? My husband and I are both retired and have only one thing to say, May God take care of the fallen and take care of the injured both physically and mentally, and wrap his/ her arms around the families of all who suffered. We have all seen part of a video to make law enforcement look bad and I will not play a part in that. I will stand in solace with my brothers and sisters in blue.

[hmbfoxtail]

My heart hurts for your son and his brothers and sisters in blue. Please pass on that as a retired LEOS we have them in our thoughts and prayers 🙏 💙

[Taltarzac725]

Being a retired Deputy, I will never arm chair quarterback ANY other LEOS actions. I don't know how it exactly went down, so how can ANYONE second guess anything? My husband and I are both retired and have only one thing to say, May God take care of the fallen and take care of the injured both physically and mentally, and wrap his/ her arms around the families of all who suffered. We have all seen part of a video to make law enforcement look bad and I will not play a part in that. I will stand in solace with my brothers and sisters in blue.

That is nicely said. Except that Monday morning quarter backing would be very useful in preventing a future tragedy like if some neighbors had seen a rifle in a 2nd story window. And then called 911 about it.

[hmbfoxtail]

Actually, with all due respect, it was NOT just a minor story in another state, at all.

However, people who make a choice not to be aware of current events, who are apathetic or who watch only certain networks would never have seen this tragic story as it occurred in North Carolina.

We, who are informed and those of us who 'Back the Blue' mourn for these Marshalls and for the Officers who were injured.

They were the Good Guys and we are absolutely keeping their families and fellow officers left behind, in our thoughts and our prayers.
Empathy. Compassion. Let's consider getting back to the Basics of understanding in this world of upheavel.
These were the good guys in a very fast, evolving, volitile situation.
It's all of our loss when we lose a dedicated, highly trained law enforcement officer, let alone several fine officers and it's all of our tragedy to deal with, whether we want to acknowledge it, or not.

NOT A SMALL STORY and I resent that implication. It is National News.

R.I.P.

Amen (also retired LEO)

[Taltarzac725]

My heart hurts for your son and his brothers and sisters in blue. Please pass on that as a retired LEOS we have them in our thoughts and prayers 🙏 💙

I certainly agree with that.

[Taltarzac725]

I had seen this first on a national news station. CBS. And CNN also had some experts talking but not going over how this could be prevented in the future. I know I brought up the subject too soon from all the posts on here.

[hmbfoxtail]

I had seen this first on a national news station. CBS. And CNN also had some experts talking but not going over how this could be prevented in the future. I know I brought up the subject too soon from all the posts on here. Every time a LEO is murdered in the line of duty you can bank on the fact that ALL agencies learn from it. My response comes from being there (clearly not there, there) but being on duty when a life was taken. It is a feeling that I can't explain and the survivors guilt. I am not judging your comment, but law enforcement works every day, never knowing for a fact they will go home at thr end of the day. We all know the risks and do it proudly. However, the defunding of law enforcement and with the lack of respect for all law enforcement hurts my heart. The way most mainstream media portrays LEOS, I am just tired of it. So please don't be offended by my post. I am coming from the other sid, that's all.

[Joe C.]

Reading all the comments here, so many of you say that this was a "tragedy".
I disagree. A tragedy would be something like when a tornado demolishes a school full of students, or a gas leak causes a building to explode with casualties. The incident in Charlotte was an "ATROCITY".
It was an intentional action taken by a felon to inflict death upon multiple people.
I haven't looked up the terms in a dictionary, but I'm sure that the definition of tragedy doesn't match the definition of atrocity.

[ElDiabloJoe]

My son is a Charlotte police officer. You have absolutely no idea how this incident unfolded. I find your question irresponsible and offensive. This was the worst law enforcement tragedy in years and you want to place blame?
In the 1970's and prior, it was common to not question and breakdown the way things are or were handled. It was considered insulting, offensive, and highly disrespectful. An officer or deputy did their best and either managed to survive or gave their life and it was taboo to suggest it may have been their fault they suffered.

Until the escalating loss of police lives in the 1960's and 1970's motivated Pierce Brooks to write "Officer Down, Code-Three" in the mid-1970's. The clinical breaking down and analysis of individual officer involved incidents (OIS) allowed administrators and trainers to develop and train tactics and strategies to help stop the escalating loss of officer lives.This movement eventually developed into the Street Survival series of books and lectures and the current way incidents are looked at and analyzed. I have been to several of the Street Survival seminars (Santa Barbara and Lost Wages) and at one point had the entire series which was read multiple times and shared among many. I can attest to their value.

I am very happy to know that your son is okay and uninjured. I know this is close to the bone for you. Additionally, it is the almost-manifestation of a deep fear for you, what with your son working Charlotte - and I am appreciative of his sacrifices and service just as I admire how supportive you are of your son's choice of career. However, it is imperative that the causes that allowed this incident to occur be dissected fully and accurately in order to help prevent it in the future. Especially to prevent your "almost-manifestation" from becoming an actual manifestation of every parent's worst fear. Law enforcement is a profession, and honest after-the-fact reviews are essential to improving future performance. Unlike corporate-America, improving future law enforcement profession directly saves lives.

As supportive of your son's career you are, you have not been a member of these locker room and training room discussions and I don't believe one can otherwise fully appreciate and understand the value of having this information accurately discussed and tactics, policies, and practices adjusted subsequently if needed. I am confident a person can appreciate many of the concerns, worries, and close family member's transference of those worries onto one's self. I am not certain one can fully appreciate all the nuances and first-hand fears unless one has been in the driver's seat of a radio car and has the handle making ALL the choices (and being responsible for their consequences) in a rapidly dynamic lethal encounter. Whether it makes global news the next day or not.

Taltrarzac725 is engaging in a common and necessary practice within police and sheriff's stations/divisions/offices/precincts, and that is for the benefit of all. I think you are very sensitive and close to the issue, especially in the recent aftermath of the incident, but I think you are incorrect to try to shut down Taltrarzac725's line of discussion. Perhaps he assumed (and we have all done this) that he was in the company of several like-minded and like-experienced individuals and was doing what we have all been conditioned to do, almost instinctively. However, I do not believe he is wrong to want the information and to dissect it. I hope my perspective helps you see Taltrarzac725's post as less offensive and irresponsible than you originally interpreted.

Thank God for you, Florida Fan, and your son, and especially his survival and safety!

[phassett]

Weird that a UK site would be reporting on a little, local story.

Everything we know about the Charlotte shooting | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/charlotte-shooting-terry-clark-hughes-b2537409.html)

[jimbomaybe]

I am not a law enforcement expert but I do possess some common sense. Wouldn’t it be better to snatch up the bad guy when he is out and about instead of his barricaded house full of guns and ammo? These failures happen too often. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

Great idea , if the "bad Guy" would just give you his daily itinerary and a good address where he could be reliably found

[Tobys Dad]

Not everyone reads the headlines or follows the news. It was a relatively minor story in another state.
Police being attacked is a minor story? That kind of thinking is why the USA is in a downward spiral.

[Taltarzac725]

I am a law librarian by training, inclination and experience. I have focused on helping victims/survivors of crimes since the early 1990s and, unfortunately, the people lost in Charlotte were doing very dangerous work to help their communities.

Thanks for some of the recent posts on here.

Kind of think that the active shooter in this tragedy may have been alerted to the presence of law enforcement so he could get in a good sniper position and then ambushed these officers.

[ElDiabloJoe]

...

Kind of think that the active shooter in this tragedy may have been alerted to the presence of law enforcement so he could get in a good sniper position and then ambushed these officers.
Truth be told, most of these guys have some indication the cops are coming. They learn early on that when they act crazy, do stupid $hit, or act suspicious, the cops usually show up.

I mean, you just wandering in the mall shopping you would have no indication the cops are enroute to your location. Get naked and start dancing in the median of an intersection in the middle of the day and you can probably bet that they'll be showing up before too much longer.

[Captainpd]

My son is a Charlotte police officer. You have absolutely no idea how this incident unfolded. I find your question irresponsible and offensive. This was the worst law enforcement tragedy in years and you want to place blame?

The poster should be ashamed of themselves. My son puts his life on the line every day. And you sit in your comfy house second guessing. I tell you what you are but it would get me kicked off the board. More than worth it

[Taltarzac725]

Truth be told, most of these guys have some indication the cops are coming. They learn early on that when they act crazy, do stupid $hit, or act suspicious, the cops usually show up.

I mean, you just wandering in the mall shopping you would have no indication the cops are enroute to your location. Get naked and start dancing in the median of an intersection in the middle of the day and you can probably bet that they'll be showing up before too much longer.

There have been a few incidents in the Villages which quickly bring law enforcement like the robbery of one of the country club restaurants. Or something like that. A media helicopter was following the chase below as some cruisers ran after the fleeing subject through some fields.

What is different in the Charlotte tragedy is that the accused was given enough time to get into a good sniping position. Or, maybe, it was just bad luck that the LEO officers went past the window's possible field of fire.

[Two Bills]

Weird that a UK site would be reporting on a little, local story.]

Four officers dead and four wounded!
How many more dead and wounded would make a little local story worthy of publishing nationally or even internationally?

[Florida Fan]

In the 1970's and prior, it was common to not question and breakdown the way things are or were handled. It was considered insulting, offensive, and highly disrespectful. An officer or deputy did their best and either managed to survive or gave their life and it was taboo to suggest it may have been their fault they suffered.

Until the escalating loss of police lives in the 1960's and 1970's motivated Pierce Brooks to write "Officer Down, Code-Three" in the mid-1970's. The clinical breaking down and analysis of individual officer involved incidents (OIS) allowed administrators and trainers to develop and train tactics and strategies to help stop the escalating loss of officer lives.This movement eventually developed into the Street Survival series of books and lectures and the current way incidents are looked at and analyzed. I have been to several of the Street Survival seminars (Santa Barbara and Lost Wages) and at one point had the entire series which was read multiple times and shared among many. I can attest to their value.

I am very happy to know that your son is okay and uninjured. I know this is close to the bone for you. Additionally, it is the almost-manifestation of a deep fear for you, what with your son working Charlotte - and I am appreciative of his sacrifices and service just as I admire how supportive you are of your son's choice of career. However, it is imperative that the causes that allowed this incident to occur be dissected fully and accurately in order to help prevent it in the future. Especially to prevent your "almost-manifestation" from becoming an actual manifestation of every parent's worst fear. Law enforcement is a profession, and honest after-the-fact reviews are essential to improving future performance. Unlike corporate-America, improving future law enforcement profession directly saves lives.

As supportive of your son's career you are, you have not been a member of these locker room and training room discussions and I don't believe one can otherwise fully appreciate and understand the value of having this information accurately discussed and tactics, policies, and practices adjusted subsequently if needed. I am confident a person can appreciate many of the concerns, worries, and close family member's transference of those worries onto one's self. I am not certain one can fully appreciate all the nuances and first-hand fears unless one has been in the driver's seat of a radio car and has the handle making ALL the choices (and being responsible for their consequences) in a rapidly dynamic lethal encounter. Whether it makes global news the next day or not.

Taltrarzac725 is engaging in a common and necessary practice within police and sheriff's stations/divisions/offices/precincts, and that is for the benefit of all. I think you are very sensitive and close to the issue, especially in the recent aftermath of the incident, but I think you are incorrect to try to shut down Taltrarzac725's line of discussion. Perhaps he assumed (and we have all done this) that he was in the company of several like-minded and like-experienced individuals and was doing what we have all been conditioned to do, almost instinctively. However, I do not believe he is wrong to want the information and to dissect it. I hope my perspective helps you see Taltrarzac725's post as less offensive and irresponsible than you originally interpreted.

Thank God for you, Florida Fan, and your son, and especially his survival and safety!

Of course these situations will be reviewed. Not only are my two sons in law enforcement, but I spent over 30 years in it. I lost 5 of my brother officers during that time and not one of them could have been handled any differently. You can read all the books you want. Sometimes, evil just wins. Tactics are so much better today. Unfortunately, our society continues to spiral.

[Taltarzac725]

Thanks for posting this and for your work.


In the 1970's and prior, it was common to not question and breakdown the way things are or were handled. It was considered insulting, offensive, and highly disrespectful. An officer or deputy did their best and either managed to survive or gave their life and it was taboo to suggest it may have been their fault they suffered.

Until the escalating loss of police lives in the 1960's and 1970's motivated Pierce Brooks to write "Officer Down, Code-Three" in the mid-1970's. The clinical breaking down and analysis of individual officer involved incidents (OIS) allowed administrators and trainers to develop and train tactics and strategies to help stop the escalating loss of officer lives.This movement eventually developed into the Street Survival series of books and lectures and the current way incidents are looked at and analyzed. I have been to several of the Street Survival seminars (Santa Barbara and Lost Wages) and at one point had the entire series which was read multiple times and shared among many. I can attest to their value.

I am very happy to know that your son is okay and uninjured. I know this is close to the bone for you. Additionally, it is the almost-manifestation of a deep fear for you, what with your son working Charlotte - and I am appreciative of his sacrifices and service just as I admire how supportive you are of your son's choice of career. However, it is imperative that the causes that allowed this incident to occur be dissected fully and accurately in order to help prevent it in the future. Especially to prevent your "almost-manifestation" from becoming an actual manifestation of every parent's worst fear. Law enforcement is a profession, and honest after-the-fact reviews are essential to improving future performance. Unlike corporate-America, improving future law enforcement profession directly saves lives.

As supportive of your son's career you are, you have not been a member of these locker room and training room discussions and I don't believe one can otherwise fully appreciate and understand the value of having this information accurately discussed and tactics, policies, and practices adjusted subsequently if needed. I am confident a person can appreciate many of the concerns, worries, and close family member's transference of those worries onto one's self. I am not certain one can fully appreciate all the nuances and first-hand fears unless one has been in the driver's seat of a radio car and has the handle making ALL the choices (and being responsible for their consequences) in a rapidly dynamic lethal encounter. Whether it makes global news the next day or not.

Taltrarzac725 is engaging in a common and necessary practice within police and sheriff's stations/divisions/offices/precincts, and that is for the benefit of all. I think you are very sensitive and close to the issue, especially in the recent aftermath of the incident, but I think you are incorrect to try to shut down Taltrarzac725's line of discussion. Perhaps he assumed (and we have all done this) that he was in the company of several like-minded and like-experienced individuals and was doing what we have all been conditioned to do, almost instinctively. However, I do not believe he is wrong to want the information and to dissect it. I hope my perspective helps you see Taltrarzac725's post as less offensive and irresponsible than you originally interpreted.

Thank God for you, Florida Fan, and your son, and especially his survival and safety!

[Escape Artist]

Of course these situations will be reviewed. Not only are my two sons in law enforcement, but I spent over 30 years in it. I lost 5 of my brother officers during that time and not one of them could have been handled any differently. You can read all the books you want. Sometimes, evil just wins. Tactics are so much better today. Unfortunately, our society continues to spiral.

In the city I left to live in TV there was a controversial incident last year where a felon who had arrest warrants in connection with a shooting on a freeway was continually eluding law enforcement. He has holed up in his elderly mother’s home and she refused entry to the police serving the warrant. Consequently, they decided to make contact with him when he was out of the house. They approached him in a public place (a park) with many people around, including children, and a shoot out ensued and he took a married couple hostage and shot and killed one of them. It was poor decision-making/tactics all the way around and it cost innocent people their lives.

[juddfl]

Thank you for your years of service as a deputy.

[manaboutown]

The thug has been identified. He had quite a criminal history. That he was not spending his worthless life in prison appalls me.

Terry Clark Hughes Jr, 39, who also died in the Monday shootout. Prior to that, records show he had been arrested dozens of times, with almost 50 cases listed online, including charges relating to drug manufacture, firearm possession and aggravated assault.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article288142400.html

[JMintzer]

The thug has been identified. He had quite a criminal history. That he was not spending his worthless life in prison appalls me.

Terry Clark Hughes Jr, 39, who also died in the Monday shootout. Prior to that, records show he had been arrested dozens of times, with almost 50 cases listed online, including charges relating to drug manufacture, firearm possession and aggravated assault.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article288142400.html

I'm sure he was just about to turn his life around...

[Taltarzac725]

I'm sure he was just about to turn his life around...

He does look like a red flag type of fugitive.

[Cliff Fr]

Awful!! My heart goes out to the families of the fallen officers

[Taltarzac725]

Awful!! My heart goes out to the families of the fallen officers

As does mine.

[cjrjck]

I am not a law enforcement expert but I do possess some common sense. Wouldn’t it be better to snatch up the bad guy when he is out and about instead of his barricaded house full of guns and ammo? These failures happen too often. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

It's done both ways. Depends on how patternable the perp is and whether you think you could control the situation and prevent collateral damage. A moving target is sometimes hard to corral.