Adios Chinese EVs

[Normal]

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

[Stu from NYC]

Good

[fdpaq0580]

Good

riddance!

[Shipping up to Boston]

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

They’ll still have a presence on the roads. Disqualify from tax credits not production of or sale of. That would be the ballsier direction

[tophcfa]

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?

[Bill14564]

Protectionism via an inverse tariff. Good for the EV haters and good for the China haters but bad for the consumer.

My prediction (FWIW): Prices will remain high or even increase.

[biker1]

There aren’t any Chinese EVs for sale in the US. There are Chinese batteries in some EV brands.

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

[Caymus]

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

They will probably just make them in Mexico. It's hard to imagine that the average American can afford a UAW made EV.

[Two Bills]

There aren’t any Chinese EVs for sale in the US. There are Chinese batteries in some EV brands.

Please stop ruining threads with facts. Spoils a good rant!

[Shipping up to Boston]

The vehicle itself no....but the graphite and other minerals for the batteries are from China....and the Treasury Dept. is allowing 20% of EV equipped with said.....and their owners, access to tax credits. They will have a presence in the US for the foreseeable future. It’s semantics....without the batteries, an EV is just a fancy planter in the yard. Would love to see Appalachia enabled to convert coal into graphite to bring jobs back home and truly eliminate foreign production altogether....but, that’s a pipe dream

[Normal]

The vehicle itself no....but the graphite and other minerals for the batteries are from China....and the Treasury Dept. is allowing 20% of EV equipped with said.....and their owners, access to tax credits. They will have a presence in the US for the foreseeable future. It’s semantics....without the batteries, an EV is just a fancy planter in the yard. Would love to see Appalachia enabled to convert coal into graphite to bring jobs back home and truly eliminate foreign production altogether....but, that’s a pipe dream
No Chinese parts including electronics and batteries. Only 22vehicles made the tax credit cut.

[MorTech]

Great! now we all get to buy overpriced garbage produced by know-nothing MBA fraudsters, DEI incompetents, and Union parasites! :)

[Kelevision]

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

There aren’t actually Chinese EV’s…Ford has cars on the “don’t qualify” list. It’s good that Ford will have to use non Chinese made parts and now raise the prices of the cars. But yay!!

[biker1]

Not exactly. The "rules" for foreign (specifically FEOC) mineral content in batteries were just relaxed for a couple of years so the list of cars that can qualify for the $7500 tax credit does not go to zero. It appears that this may very well be challenged in court, as it should since it is a reinterpretation of the original bill and usurps power from Congress.

No Chinese parts including electronics and batteries. Only 22vehicles made the tax credit cut.

[Cliff Fr]

They have so much markup that they can easily lower the price of their evs by $7500

[MandoMan]

Great news! Chinese EVs don’t qualify for 7,500 tax credits anymore! EVs made with Chinese parts are now disqualified by the IRS. Finally something good comes out of our tax dollars. Phase that junk out of our country.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-many-electric-vehicles-will-no-longer-qualify-for-a-7500-subsidy/ar-AA1o5GNV

A Chinese electric car maker announced at a Chinese auto show last week that its new battery can be charged enough in ten minutes to go about 350 miles, and with a full charge—thirty minutes—over 600 miles. If our cars could actually do that, sales would explode. However, I think I read that the Chinese government is subsidizing Chinese electric cars about $15,000 each to establish the market. I wonder if Elon Musk actually went to China last week to license that technology.

[rsmurano]

We should not give out $7500 tax credits to any EV owner. This is a rip off. We also subsidize EV owners in road maintenance since these moneys come from tax on gas. Then we probably subsidize superfund toxic landfills to discard these EV toxic batteries when they need them 8-10 years down the road. We also pay for building the EV charging infrastructure. I don’t want my tax dollars going for this, have every EV owner subsidize this, I don’t want them and I will never need them, so I shouldn’t pay for them.
All EV owners need to pay their fair share of road maintenance, and the costs of the new charging stations across the country. It costs way more for an EV, and with these extra costs, nobody would look at buying an EV.

[merrymini]

The $7500 is only valid if you owe the feds that much. If you do, you will be paying a penalty and will have to make estimated payments going forward. It is BS. I have owned an electric vehicle, it is really cool but to propose that it can replace the ICE is utter stupidity proposed by stupid people. Car manufacturers got the money from the government and lost their shirts because in capitalism, the market drives innovation and the administration should not and cannot replace that. Never let facts get in the way of your convictions.

[biker1]

A majority of the states charge an EV registration fee to make up for the gasoline tax they aren’t paying (to support road maintenance). Those states that don’t currently do this will undoubtedly do it in the future. Recycling infrastructure is being built out to support the recycling of EV batteries, just as it was for the lead acid batteries in gas cars. You have little say on what your tax dollars support. For example, your tax dollars supported gain-of-function research in China and supports mortgages in the US. Get used to it, if you haven’t already.


We should not give out $7500 tax credits to any EV owner. This is a rip off. We also subsidize EV owners in road maintenance since these moneys come from tax on gas. Then we probably subsidize superfund toxic landfills to discard these EV toxic batteries when they need them 8-10 years down the road. We also pay for building the EV charging infrastructure. I don’t want my tax dollars going for this, have every EV owner subsidize this, I don’t want them and I will never need them, so I shouldn’t pay for them.
All EV owners need to pay their fair share of road maintenance, and the costs of the new charging stations across the country. It costs way more for an EV, and with these extra costs, nobody would look at buying an EV.

[BrianL99]

The $7500 is only valid if you owe the feds that much. If you do, you will be paying a penalty and will have to make estimated payments going forward. It is BS.

I'm sorry, but your facts are WRONG.

The Tax Credit is immediately available and transferable and can be used as a down payment when buying an automobile.


The IRS Just Made It Easier To Benefit From The EV Tax Credit – Forbes Advisor (https://www.forbes.com/advisor/taxes/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-updated/)

[Normal]

A Chinese electric car maker announced at a Chinese auto show last week that its new battery can be charged enough in ten minutes to go about 350 miles, and with a full charge—thirty minutes—over 600 miles. If our cars could actually do that, sales would explode. However, I think I read that the Chinese government is subsidizing Chinese electric cars about $15,000 each to establish the market. I wonder if Elon Musk actually went to China last week to license that technology.

They play by a different rule book. Their cars aren’t as safe as cars constructed to US standards. Chinese drives have increased risk of fires and deaths from crashes. Significant upgrades that require additional weight, time and money hamper our system for the better? I willing to wager litigation against Chinese makers in China by Chinese citizens isn’t nearly as easy as our hamstrung legal system here in the US.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I try to be careful when criticizing China exports in general...at least on morals and to a lesser extent, safety....because I believe we all are compromised and a bit hypocritical. This story, while well over a year old, shows that we’re part of the enabling process......start with smartphones and tablets which most of us use to participate in this forum and this thread topic....and work your way down the list. So if safety is the main concern, we have a lot of work to do

U.S. Trade With China Actually Increased Last Year: Here Are The 10 Top Imported Items (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywashburn/2023/02/10/us-trade-with-china-actually-increased-last-year-here-are-the-10-top-imported-items/%3Fsh%3D58d6ec865f85&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjF_NeMv_aFAxXDg4kEHbpnAtoQFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw2PQjk05QwbVzCRf3uPVKpB)

[Bay Kid]

They have so much markup that they can easily lower the price of their evs by $7500

Paid by the taxpayer....

[Bealman]

They will probably just make them in Mexico. It's hard to imagine that the average American can afford a UAW made EV.

Hard to believe anything union made could be affordable.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Hard to believe anything union made could be affordable.

When most of this demo was buying US...Union built...products, cars included, didn’t seem to be an issue. Now that the economy is shaky and we have had no problems buying and supporting Chinese based products made by workers making a pittance and in less than desirable conditions....for decades. Of course it costs more for union built products.....better wages, benefits, workplace safety and IMO product safety. So my earlier comments are based on our daily reliance on the very items we all use...that originate in China. The steel used for new commercial construction, your Nike’s, your smartphones....pharmaceuticals and on and on. I’m personally fine with paying more, using union labor and keeping manufacturing and jobs....here. Remember, you get what you pay for in life. Doesn’t always mean it’s better but you at least can control most of the narrative

[ithos]

They play by a different rule book. Their cars aren’t as safe as cars constructed to US standards. Chinese drives have increased risk of fires and deaths from crashes. Significant upgrades that require additional weight, time and money hamper our system for the better? I willing to wager litigation against Chinese makers in China by Chinese citizens isn’t nearly as easy as our hamstrung legal system here in the US.

All Chinese cars that would be sold in the USA would meet the minimum standards required by the NHTSA. Their EVs would be sold at a price so low that Tesla could not match for similar standards. They are having significant success in Europe.

China's electric carmakers take on Europeans on their own turf : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/02/18/1225653773/china-electric-vehicles-byd-nio-geely-vw-europe)

If the Chinese are ever allowed to dump their EVs into the USA without major tariffs then the Tesla stock price will collapse.

[Caymus]

All Chinese cars that would be sold in the USA would meet the minimum standards required by the NHTSA. Their EVs would be sold at a price so low that Tesla could not match for similar standards. They are having significant success in Europe.

China's electric carmakers take on Europeans on their own turf : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/02/18/1225653773/china-electric-vehicles-byd-nio-geely-vw-europe)

If the Chinese are ever allowed to dump their EVs into the USA without major tariffs then the Tesla stock price will collapse.

Ford is losing money on EV's. Are they dumping?;)

[Topspinmo]

Ford is losing money on EV's. Are they dumping?;)

From article I read Ford and GM will probably moving assembly to Mexico within decade. Tired of UAW demands when Honda, Toyota, BMW, and other foreign manufacture in USA don’t have to eat with UAW.

[BrianL99]

Ford is losing money on EV's. Are they dumping?;)

Ford and everyone else is losing a small fortune on EV's. They have no choice but to make them & them dump them. Without EV's, they can't meet CAFE requirements.

[Vermilion Villager]

It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?
Why should the oil companies get %1 Trillion in subsidies? Why someone who had the same job as I did but had 4 kids get a $8,000 income tax deduction? Why should I have to pay for the schools? Why should I pay for VA hospitals? I was in the military and I understood it was a voluntary decision to join… Why should I be treated any different?
Why Why Why..........

[Vermilion Villager]

We, the taxpayers, shouldn't be paying people to buy a certain car. We also shouldn't be paying off student loan debt.
You kind of do not understand the student loan debt issue. First, the government isn't paying off anything. If a student took out $100,000 in loans that student has paid that $100,000 back.... it's the extra interest is occurred after 10 years of payment on a federal loan that the federal government is forgiving. Again it does not cost in the US government one penny.

[jayjayson]

There aren’t any
Chinese EVs for sale in the US. There are Chinese batteries in some EV brands. Polestar, Volvo's electric car division is owned by a Chinese company that makes it a Chinese company

[Bealman]

When most of this demo was buying US...Union built...products, cars included, didn’t seem to be an issue. Now that the economy is shaky and we have had no problems buying and supporting Chinese based products made by workers making a pittance and in less than desirable conditions....for decades. Of course it costs more for union built products.....better wages, benefits, workplace safety and IMO product safety. So my earlier comments are based on our daily reliance on the very items we all use...that originate in China. The steel used for new commercial construction, your Nike’s, your smartphones....pharmaceuticals and on and on. I’m personally fine with paying more, using union labor and keeping manufacturing and jobs....here. Remember, you get what you pay for in life. Doesn’t always mean it’s better but you at least can control most of the narrative

I am not a globalist nor do I try and buy imports. I will pay more for American made products. I believe Unions had their times, but they are the ones that have driven the prices of goods to where American manufacturing went out of country. I have worked in many American factories and have been laid off due to off shoring. I have never been union. American union workers were given GM during the 2008 recession. They were the reason for Japanese cars coming to and taking over the industry during the 70's and 80's. Yes, automakers were part of the reason as well. There are always two sides to economics, supply and demand. I don't go to Walmart either. I look for American made first, Japan next, Mexico, and so on. I will take any product made elsewhere over Chinese made. Your comment on shaky ground is a false narrative. We have been on shaky ground before. I am not going to convince you to my side nor will you convince me to come to your side. Debate is good as longer as there is willingness to listen and learn from both sides.

[BrianL99]

You kind of do not understand the student loan debt issue. First, the government isn't paying off anything. If a student took out $100,000 in loans that student has paid that $100,000 back.... it's the extra interest is occurred after 10 years of payment on a federal loan that the federal government is forgiving. Again it does not cost in the US government one penny.

I'm afraid that's not an accurate statement.

The USA operates on a Deficit Budget, which means every dollar it spends, has interest attached to it (it cost money to borrow money).

A Student Loan is not much different than a Mortgage Loan. You borrow the "principal" (which has already been borrowed by your lender). You pay back the Principal & the Interest, over 30 years ... just like a student loan.

There is no such thing as "extra interest".

The US Government BORROWED the money they gave out for student loans and has been paying interest on that money, since the student borrowed it from them. "Forgiving Loans/Interest" cost a fortune.

If you have any doubt, call your bank and ask them if they'll "forgive" the interest on your home mortgage. Let me know how you make out.

[Bealman]

You kind of do not understand the student loan debt issue. First, the government isn't paying off anything. If a student took out $100,000 in loans that student has paid that $100,000 back.... it's the extra interest is occurred after 10 years of payment on a federal loan that the federal government is forgiving. Again it does not cost in the US government one penny.

You kind of don't understand payment by the Government of the interest. It is not going to be written off. Too many places will go out of business, this Government will pay the interest. It will cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars to fix the issue. Same thing happened with mortgage industry. Government is not a good business person.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I am not a globalist nor do I try and buy imports. I will pay more for American made products. I believe Unions had their times, but they are the ones that have driven the prices of goods to where American manufacturing went out of country. I have worked in many American factories and have been laid off due to off shoring. I have never been union. American union workers were given GM during the 2008 recession. They were the reason for Japanese cars coming to and taking over the industry during the 70's and 80's. Yes, automakers were part of the reason as well. There are always two sides to economics, supply and demand. I don't go to Walmart either. I look for American made first, Japan next, Mexico, and so on. I will take any product made elsewhere over Chinese made. Your comment on shaky ground is a false narrative. We have been on shaky ground before. I am not going to convince you to my side nor will you convince me to come to your side. Debate is good as longer as there is willingness to listen and learn from both sides.

It’s a fair rebuttal. I actually like your Top 3 for similar....lesser evil mindset

[Vermilion Villager]

I'm afraid that's not an accurate statement.

The USA operates on a Deficit Budget, which means every dollar it spends, has interest attached to it (it cost money to borrow money).

A Student Loan is not much different than a Mortgage Loan. You borrow the "principal" (which has already been borrowed by your lender). You pay back the Principal & the Interest, over 30 years ... just like a student loan.

There is no such thing as "extra interest".

The US Government BORROWED the money they gave out for student loans and has been paying interest on that money, since the student borrowed it from them. "Forgiving Loans/Interest" cost a fortune.

If you have any doubt, call your bank and ask them if they'll "forgive" the interest on your home mortgage. Let me know how you make out.
I am sorry you do not understand how this program works. Your home mortgage comparison is apples to oranges. "not much different" as you put it IS different. A bank is a for profit entity.
1. Not every student loan qualifies. 2. the student loan has to have a minimum of 20 years payback history. 3. 100% of the principal must have been repaid. 4. The Government BORROWS the money at a lower rate than it charged for the loan. Translation: the government made money on the loan (Profit). In these cases...20 years of profits! 5. The government is only forgiving future profit from the future interest.

[Bealman]

Boston shipper: All good! I love debate! Just not arguing. Those days of reasonable debate are dwindling, unfortunately. Have a great day!

[ithos]

Ford is losing money on EV's. Are they dumping?;)

They could if they made them with Chinese parts and produced them in Mexico(giant sucking sound). I am not sure what the tariffs would be if they were built in China.

PEROT GIANT SUCKING SOUND
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LvZAZ-HV4

[Shipping up to Boston]

They could if they made them with Chinese parts and produced them in Mexico(giant sucking sound). I am not sure what the tariffs would be if they were built in China.

PEROT GIANT SUCKING SOUND
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LvZAZ-HV4

Love H. Ross Perot references! My favorite (arguable on who the intended recipient was...) “You couldn’t work the overnight shift at a Dairy Queen”! Obviously in his endearing Texas accent!

[BrianL99]

I am sorry you do not understand how this program works. Your home mortgage comparison is apples to oranges. "not much different" as you put it IS different. A bank is a for profit entity.
1. Not every student loan qualifies. 2. the student loan has to have a minimum of 20 years payback history. 3. 100% of the principal must have been repaid. 4. The Government BORROWS the money at a lower rate than it charged for the loan. Translation: the government made money on the loan (Profit). In these cases...20 years of profits! 5. The government is only forgiving future profit from the future interest.

Student Loan Forgiveness will cost the USA $400 BILLION over 30 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Biden's student loan forgiveness plan will cost $400 billion, budget office says : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1125272287/student-loan-forgiveness-cost-billion)

Not FOX news. Not CSPAN.

[jimjamuser]

It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?
Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.

[jimjamuser]

We, the taxpayers, shouldn't be paying people to buy a certain car. We also shouldn't be paying off student loan debt.
I disagree with both.

[Greatlawn]

If China could export its high quality low cost EVs to the US it would speed adoption of EVs and reduce prices for consumers and taxpayers. Now that’s capitalism?

[jimjamuser]

We should not give out $7500 tax credits to any EV owner. This is a rip off. We also subsidize EV owners in road maintenance since these moneys come from tax on gas. Then we probably subsidize superfund toxic landfills to discard these EV toxic batteries when they need them 8-10 years down the road. We also pay for building the EV charging infrastructure. I don’t want my tax dollars going for this, have every EV owner subsidize this, I don’t want them and I will never need them, so I shouldn’t pay for them.
All EV owners need to pay their fair share of road maintenance, and the costs of the new charging stations across the country. It costs way more for an EV, and with these extra costs, nobody would look at buying an EV.
Older people like in The Village should be aware that allergies and lung diseases are intensified by bad air. ICE engine vehicles and golf carts product BAD air and Electric vehicles do NOT. If bad health could be QUANTIFIABLE then people could see the problems of ICE vehicles. We ALL want more health and longer life, but NOT everyone sees the connection negatively for ICE vehicles.
.....There actually may be scientific studies that show longer life with the better air from E-vehicles. I am sure that there are studies about people living near factory smokestacks living shorter lives.

[jimjamuser]

Hard to believe anything union made could be affordable.
The price of EVs would come down if more people purchased them. More DEMAND for EVs would make for bigger factory assembly lines, which would increase production efficiency and bring prices down. Battery technology will improve in the future and so will more charging stations. EVs have many, many advantages and saying things bad about them is like saying, "stop the FUTURE".

[jimjamuser]

Ford and everyone else is losing a small fortune on EV's. They have no choice but to make them & them dump them. Without EV's, they can't meet CAFE requirements.
20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

[biker1]

Please tell us again which EV you own.

20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

[jimjamuser]

Please tell us again which EV you own.
Actually, I have the maximum that I can afford and for the spaces that I have to park them.

[Vermilion Villager]

Student Loan Forgiveness will cost the USA $400 BILLION over 30 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Biden's student loan forgiveness plan will cost $400 billion, budget office says : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1125272287/student-loan-forgiveness-cost-billion)

Not FOX news. Not CSPAN.
1. Yes....$400 billion in lost PROFITS! It's not like the government is going to be writing a $400 billion check. 2. The current student loan forgiveness proposal is not what the CBPO is referencing from 2022 (2years ago).
It's nice to see that people are upset about certain things. As long as you are there in that outrage, please weigh in on your thoughts that the government gives $1 trillion every year in subsidies (lost income to the US) to an oil industry that earn $4 trillion in profits?:read:

Question: When are we getting back to the EV debate????

[Caymus]

1. Yes....$400 billion in lost PROFITS! It's not like the government is going to be writing a $400 billion check. 2. The current student loan forgiveness proposal is not what the CBPO is referencing from 2022 (2years ago).
It's nice to see that people are upset about certain things. As long as you are there in that outrage, please weigh in on your thoughts that the government gives $1 trillion every year in subsidies (lost income to the US) to an oil industry that earn $4 trillion in profits?:read:

Question: When are we getting back to the EV debate????

So why does a company like Chevron have a higher tax rate than one like Amazon?

[keepsake]

Doesn't some of the blame belong on the USA's EPA ? They can make the lithium batteries in China but not the USA. China must be polluting another planet I guess.

[Topspinmo]

20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

Europeans don’t have to drive that far, so it practical in most cases.

[Topspinmo]

I disagree with both.


So you have student loan that you made choice to get and agreed to payoff?

[Topspinmo]

So why does a company like Chevron have a higher tax rate than one like Amazon?

And why does government make more on gallon gas than chevron? Why does Amazon get breaks??? $$$$$$$ donations maybe?

[Topspinmo]

Older people like in The Village should be aware that allergies and lung diseases are intensified by bad air. ICE engine vehicles and golf carts product BAD air and Electric vehicles do NOT. If bad health could be QUANTIFIABLE then people could see the problems of ICE vehicles. We ALL want more health and longer life, but NOT everyone sees the connection negatively for ICE vehicles.
.....There actually may be scientific studies that show longer life with the better air from E-vehicles. I am sure that there are studies about people living near factory smokestacks living shorter lives.

Have you heard of the Catholic converter:D

[bmcgowan13]

It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?

The government is trying to protect/promote US industries -- and their workers.

We (the US taxpayer) subsidized/bailed-out Harley Davidson, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Bear-Sterns (2008), Chrysler (1980), the Savings and Loan industry (1989), US Banks (200B), US Airlines (2001), 2008 TARP (700B!), American International Group Inc., (AIG) 2013, Airlines/COVID (2020), etc.

The government subsidies to promote their country's business. The Chinese government (and all US automakers) realize the future is in electric vehicles. The Chinese government subsidies a *lot* of Chinese cars, Sheetrock, steel and businesses--for a pragmatic reason. It makes good business sense. The Chinese spend up to 5% of their entire GDP in subsidies.

I think this has become pretty much a common business practice for businesses nowadays... It helps the US company stay ahead of foreign competition...

[JMintzer]

20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

The US isn't Europe. Completely different transportation issues, distances traveled, etc...

[JMintzer]

Actually, I have the maximum that I can afford and for the spaces that I have to park them.

So that's Zero, right?

[Shipping up to Boston]

So that's Zero, right?

Do as I say.....not as I do?

[JMintzer]

Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.

Does all of that newly needed electricity come from the "electricity fairy"?

China os building coal fired electric plants weekly. I guess there must be a wall preventing that pollution from effecting "the air we all breathe"...

[JMintzer]

Do as I say.....not as I do?

The epitome of that...

[defrey12]

Protectionism via an inverse tariff. Good for the EV haters and good for the China haters but bad for the consumer.

My prediction (FWIW): Prices will remain high or even increase.

Good. Proof of an inferior product that was not market driven but rather agenda driven.

[Normal]

1. Yes....$400 billion in lost PROFITS! It's not like the government is going to be writing a $400 billion check. 2. The current student loan forgiveness proposal is not what the CBPO is referencing from 2022 (2years ago).
It's nice to see that people are upset about certain things. As long as you are there in that outrage, please weigh in on your thoughts that the government gives $1 trillion every year in subsidies (lost income to the US) to an oil industry that earn $4 trillion in profits?:read:

Question: When are we getting back to the EV debate????

Focus, this is about ceasing the payment of the US taxpayer to the government of China via their electric vehicle program. They have gotten enough from us. Whether they got 7500 dollars in sales for each purchase or 7 dollars, we shouldn’t be paying China anything.

[biker1]

Doubtful. EVs typically weigh more than ICE cars because of the battery. Increased weight will lengthen stopping distances. Regardless, I doubt it is a significant factor.


Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.

[spd2918]

Dump all EV subsidies. Why is a minimum wage worker forced to subsidize the purchase of someone's luxury vehicle? It's political graft.

[jimjamuser]

Doubtful. EVs typically weigh more than ICE cars because of the battery. Increased weight will lengthen stopping distances. Regardless, I doubt it is a significant factor.
I was comparing equal weight vehicles. It is well known that Tesla vehicles beat ANY ICE vehicle in acceleration from a start. That is because electric DC motors have max torque almost instantly. The lower center of gravity of any E-vehicle ALSO makes for better acceleration. And decceleration from braking is the same principle.
......Lower center of gravity is why sport cars (even ICE ones) are built as low as possible to the ground. The old Austin Healy is one example of that. Unfortunately speed bumps came along and took an edge away from true sports cars.

[jimjamuser]

Dump all EV subsidies. Why is a minimum wage worker forced to subsidize the purchase of someone's luxury vehicle? It's political graft.
The minimum wage worker is forced to be in a world of EVs because the US and other governments know that breathing clean air is GOOD for the worker. The worker may not realize that fact.
.........Many average people resist change. In the 1950s my own father told me that TVs were a passing FAD. But, the government (with its multitudes of experts) thought otherwise about television back then and now today - about EVs.

[biker1]

Reading comprehension problem? Reread my post. The additional weight of EVs will impact their braking distance. When comparing comparable cars, the EV will weigh more. The rest of stuff in your post no nothing to do with what I said. Try to stay on point.


I was comparing equal weight vehicles. It is well known that Tesla vehicles beat ANY ICE vehicle in acceleration from a start. That is because electric DC motors have max torque almost instantly. The lower center of gravity of any E-vehicle ALSO makes for better acceleration. And decceleration from braking is the same principle.
......Lower center of gravity is why sport cars (even ICE ones) are built as low as possible to the ground. The old Austin Healy is one example of that. Unfortunately speed bumps came along and took an edge away from true sports cars.