EZGO RXV Elite Lithium Fuel Cost

[MorTech]

EZGO RXV Elite Lithium cart - Kill-A-Watt meter at the wall - Tire PSI 20 - 85F - Cruising around TV MMPs:

Measured 89whs per mile at 0.0083 cents per watt-hour or 0.74 cents per mile.

It would be nice to have people with other brands of lithium carts conduct this same test. A Kill-A-Watt meter is about 30 bucks at Ace/HD/Lowes/Amazon.

[Altavia]

EZGO RXV Elite Lithium cart - Kill-A-Watt meter at the wall - Tire PSI 20 - 85F - Cruising around TV MMPs:

Measured 89whs per mile at 0.0083 cents per watt-hour or 0.74 cents per mile.

It would be nice to have people with other brands of lithium carts conduct this same test. A Kill-A-Watt meter is about 30 bucks at Ace/HD/Lowes/Amazon.

Interesting, help me understand how you're doing the measurement/calculation?

[biker1]

Nope. SECO charges approximately 14 cents per kWh, not the 8 cents you claim. Your cost is actually almost twice that. Your watt-hours per mile would suggest a range of 113 miles. Are you actually seeing that in typical use? I assume you were keeping your speed pretty low. The difference in power consumption between 18 mph and 22 mph is almost 2x since power goes as the cube of the velocity. Your watt-hours per mile figure is useless without knowing the average speed and other factors. I can get that figure with my electric cart also but it would not reflect the actual usage of the cart; stop and go, speeds faster than I should be going on the MMPs, playing golf, etc. There is some help from the regenerative breaking but not much on average. However, if you were averaging something like 24 mph then that would be a good figure.

EZGO RXV Elite Lithium cart - Kill-A-Watt meter at the wall - Tire PSI 20 - 85F - Cruising around TV MMPs:

Measured 89whs per mile at 0.0083 cents per watt-hour or 0.74 cents per mile.

It would be nice to have people with other brands of lithium carts conduct this same test. A Kill-A-Watt meter is about 30 bucks at Ace/HD/Lowes/Amazon.

[LeRoySmith]

EZGO RXV Elite Lithium cart - Kill-A-Watt meter at the wall - Tire PSI 20 - 85F - Cruising around TV MMPs:

Measured 89whs per mile at 0.0083 cents per watt-hour or 0.74 cents per mile.

It would be nice to have people with other brands of lithium carts conduct this same test. A Kill-A-Watt meter is about 30 bucks at Ace/HD/Lowes/Amazon.

I just ordered a knock off Kill a watt meter, I'm anxious to play with this.

[Bill14564]

Nope. SECO charges approximately 14 cents per kWh, not the 8 cents you claim. Your cost is actually almost twice that. Your watt-hours per mile would suggest a range of 113 miles. Are you actually seeing that in typical use? I assume you were keeping your speed pretty low. The difference in power consumption between 18 mph and 22 mph is almost 2x since power goes as the cube of the velocity. Your watt-hours per mile figure is useless without knowing the average speed and other factors. I can get that figure with my electric cart also but it would not reflect the actual usage of the cart; stop and go, speeds faster than I should be going on the MMPs, playing golf, etc. There is some help from the regenerative breaking but not much on average. However, if you were averaging something like 24 mph then that would be a good figure.

Nope.

SECO charges 11.2 cents/KWh - 3 cents/KWh "Hot Bucks" rebate and then taxed at 2.5625%

(11.2 - 3)*1.025625 = 8.4 cents/KWh

(NOTE: There is also a $1.15/day charge but since that is paid whether you charge the cart or not I left it out of these calculations)

My EZGo recharges at a rate of 5 or 6 miles of range per hour of charging. At a maximum rate of 10A on a 110V circuit that works out to be between 1.6 and 1.8 cents per mile. If the charger does not draw the full 10A over the entire charging period then the cost per mile is less.

[biker1]

Nope. Take your total bill and divide by the number of kWhs you consumed and you will get approximately 14 cents per kWh. That is the real amount you are paying per kWh. The hot buck discount is not applied all the time - appears to be mostly a winter adjustment. The rate is 13.2 cents per kWh over 1000 kWhs which is hard to avoid in the summer, which is also when the hot bucks discount isn’t being applied. If you want to only deal with the incremental cost per kWh in the months with no PCA then it is effectively 13.5 cents per kWh.

At the charger, typical use is 200 watt-hours per mile and the charger pulls about 10 amps.


Nope.

SECO charges 11.2 cents/KWh - 3 cents/KWh "Hot Bucks" rebate and then taxed at 2.5625%

(11.2 - 3)*1.025625 = 8.4 cents/KWh

(NOTE: There is also a $1.15/day charge but since that is paid whether you charge the cart or not I left it out of these calculations)

My EZGo recharges at a rate of 5 or 6 miles of range per hour of charging. At a maximum rate of 10A on a 110V circuit that works out to be between 1.6 and 1.8 cents per mile. If the charger does not draw the full 10A over the entire charging period then the cost per mile is less.

[LeRoySmith]

Nope. Take your total bill and divide by the number of kWhs you consumed and you will get approximately 14 cents per kWh. That is the real amount you are paying per kWh. The hot buck discount is not applied all the time - appears to be mostly a winter adjustment. The rate is 13.2 cents per kWh over 1000 kWhs which is hard to avoid in the summer, which is also when the hot bucks discount isn’t being applied. If you want to only deal with the incremental cost per kWh in the months with no PCA then it is effectively 13.5 cents per kWh.

When I opened my first data center in Atlanta in 1994 I was paying 4 cents/kwh for the first megawatt and 2.1 cents for everything after that.

[Bill14564]

Nope. Take your total bill and divide by the number of kWhs you consumed and you will get approximately 14 cents per kWh. That is the real amount you are paying per kWh. The hot buck discount is not applied all the time - appears to be mostly a winter adjustment. The rate is 13.2 cents per kWh over 1000 kWhs which is hard to avoid in the summer, which is also when the hot bucks discount isn’t being applied. If you want to only deal with the incremental cost per kWh in the months with no PCA then it is effectively 13.5 cents per kWh.

At the charger, typical use is 200 watt-hours per mile and the charger pulls about 10 amps.

That calculation gives a bad number for cost per kWh that will vary by the amount of electricity used. The bill clearly shows what the rate per kWh is.

Hot bucks varies with the economy and not the season. As we went into a period of high inflation the hot bucks disappeared. As inflation lessened the hot bucks subtraction came back.

I believe I had one bill over 1000kWh last year, even with all the AC. Of course, YMMV.

[tophcfa]

Interesting, but golf cart fuel, be it gas or electric, is chump change. I’m way more concerned with the upcoming release of the seasonal golf rates.

[biker1]

You assumed the lowest incremental cost and I presented the average and highest incremental cost. You apparently want to consider the cost of electricity for the golf cart to be different from the cost of electricity for other appliances. I don’t make a distinction. Pick your poison. I looked at my last 17 SECO bills and less than half had a negative PCA. 5 bills had a positive PCA yielding a per kWh cost as high as 18 cents per kWh. We typically run over 1000 kWhs for 5 months of the year. My wife likes it chilly.

That calculation gives a bad number for cost per kWh that will vary by the amount of electricity used. The bill clearly shows what the rate per kWh is.

Hot bucks varies with the economy and not the season. As we went into a period of high inflation the hot bucks disappeared. As inflation lessened the hot bucks subtraction came back.

I believe I had one bill over 1000kWh last year, even with all the AC. Of course, YMMV.

[LeRoySmith]

. My wife likes it chilly.

my wife is chilly






has nothing to do with me

[spinner1001]

You assumed the lowest incremental cost and I presented the average and highest incremental cost. You apparently want to consider the cost of electricity for the golf cart to be different from the cost of electricity for other appliances. I don’t make a distinction. Pick your poison. I looked at my last 17 SECO bills and less than half had a negative PCA. 5 bills had a positive PCA yielding a per kWh cost as high as 18 cents per kWh. We typically run over 1000 kWhs for 5 months of the year. My wife likes it chilly.

Here, arguments over marginal electric costs versus average electric costs.
Similar to the distinction between marginal tax rates and average tax rates.
If I am already in the highest tax bracket and want to know how much more in taxes I pay on the NEXT dollar of income, I want to use my marginal tax rate, not my average tax rate.

The reason for the particular analysis should determine whether you use marginal versus average.

Discuss.

[biker1]

How much does it cost to run my hot water heater? Approximately 14 cents per kWh. How much does it cost to run my AC? Approximately 14 cents per kWh. Same thing with all my appliances, including my electric golf cart. I can’t prioritize one over the other since I need to use them all and can’t decide which kWhs go where. It really doesn’t matter in the big picture since electricity is relatively low cost here. Our electricity usage varies by a factor of 3x during the year but the cost per kWh stays pretty close to 14 cents per kWh. How many watts- hours per mile for my gas cart and how many miles per gallon for my electric cart is really not important. The electric cart is lower cost but it is a matter of a small number for the gas cart being a bit smaller for the electric. We spend about $200 on gas for the gas cart and about $60 on electricity for the electric cart each year. In case you were wondering, the gas cart is used more.

Here, arguments over marginal electric costs versus average electric costs.
Similar to the distinction between marginal tax rates and average tax rates.
If I am already in the highest tax bracket and want to know how much more in taxes I pay on the NEXT dollar of income, I want to use my marginal tax rate, not my average tax rate.

The reason for the particular analysis should determine whether you use marginal versus average.

Discuss.

[MorTech]

Do people with gas carts not have to pay that $1.15 / Day SECO maintenance charge?
I know people with gas carts have to pay the State/Fed road tax ($0.6066).
Is there road tax on ethanol-free gasoline?

$0.1121 - $0.03 = $0.0821

Am I missing something? I did round up for the tax and fee.

I don't know what SECO charges others. The key is the watt-hours per mile figure.

I think hotbucks depends on NatGas spot price...today is $2.18. That's free gas with a $2.18 delivery charge :) NatGas is flared off at oil well heads so it is literally a free resource in the USA at Marcellus and Bakken.

[MorTech]

1.Charge your golf cart full. Note tire pressure and outside temp. Reset mileage to zero.
2.Drive around normally on the MMPs until about 1/4 charge left.
3.Plug Kill-A-Watt into wall and charger plug into Kill-A-Watt meter.
4.Press and hold "reset" on Kill-A-Watt meter until display reads "reset"
5.Plug in the golf cart and let it run until it cycles off.
6.Scroll to the "kwh used" on the meter and divide that by your mileage.

That is your watt-hours per mile.

Multiply watt-hours per mile by cost per watt hour (Mine is $0.0083 cents).This is electricity cost per mile.

Fun Fact: any number under 120 whs per mile is less than a penny per mile at todays rate.

Note: Resist the urge to hyper-mile...drive like you normally do.

[MandoMan]

Nope.

SECO charges 11.2 cents/KWh - 3 cents/KWh "Hot Bucks" rebate and then taxed at 2.5625%

(11.2 - 3)*1.025625 = 8.4 cents/KWh

(NOTE: There is also a $1.15/day charge but since that is paid whether you charge the cart or not I left it out of these calculations)

My EZGo recharges at a rate of 5 or 6 miles of range per hour of charging. At a maximum rate of 10A on a 110V circuit that works out to be between 1.6 and 1.8 cents per mile. If the charger does not draw the full 10A over the entire charging period then the cost per mile is less.

Correct. I sold my golf cart, as I wasn’t using it, but I drive a 2020 Prius Prime that has a battery I recharge on 110 from a standard outlet in my garage. This gives me 27 miles of driving on battery alone before the gas engine kicks in. My rough estimation, based on SECO’s 11 cents per KWH, and using the amount of recharging the owner’s manual says I can get, works out to TWO CENTS PER MILE. For electricity. I doubt that this costs me more than about $5 a month. Meanwhile, after four years in The Villages, not needing the gas engine very often, and with almost 50,000 miles on the car, its gas usage works out to 150 MPG. Not bad.

[Southwest737]

Interesting, but golf cart fuel, be it gas or electric, is chump change. I’m way more concerned with the upcoming release of the seasonal golf rates.

Electric cost to power an EV cart is chump change (about a penny per mile). Gasoline cart fuel cost is 5 to 6 times higher. That chump change becomes thousands of dollars difference over the long haul.

[Southwest737]

Nope. Take your total bill and divide by the number of kWhs you consumed and you will get approximately 14 cents per kWh. That is the real amount you are paying per kWh. The hot buck discount is not applied all the time - appears to be mostly a winter adjustment. The rate is 13.2 cents per kWh over 1000 kWhs which is hard to avoid in the summer, which is also when the hot bucks discount isn’t being applied. If you want to only deal with the incremental cost per kWh in the months with no PCA then it is effectively 13.5 cents per kWh.

At the charger, typical use is 200 watt-hours per mile and the charger pulls about 10 amps.

SECOs juice mostly from natural gas power plants so the PCA has been 3 cents since October last year due to how cheap natty gas has been.
When I figure how much it cost to power a device I do not factor in the $1.15 per day. That is a fixed cost for being hooked to the grid. If I use zero kWh last month then the bill is $35. This month i powered one appliance and used one kWh. My bill is $35.08. It only cost me 8 cents to power that appliance.

[claudekaz]

if you are that worried about .14 cents, get a GAS CART !!!

[bragones]

Interesting post. I only used a kill-watt- meter once on my Evolution with a 205 amp lithium battery. I found the charger to use 1200watts (about the same as a toaster oven or hair dryer). The cart charged in an hour after driving 10 miles.

1200 watts/hour, 1 hour = 10 miles. 1.2 kwh x ~.12cents/kwh comes out to aprox 1.45 cents/mile.

Once I saw how reasonable it was, I didn’t take any more readings but this post has me second guessing so I will take more.

[nn0wheremann]

EZGO RXV Elite Lithium cart - Kill-A-Watt meter at the wall - Tire PSI 20 - 85F - Cruising around TV MMPs:

Measured 89whs per mile at 0.0083 cents per watt-hour or 0.74 cents per mile.

It would be nice to have people with other brands of lithium carts conduct this same test. A Kill-A-Watt meter is about 30 bucks at Ace/HD/Lowes/Amazon.
My ‘09 Yamaha is paid for, burns about $10 gas a month and is typically in use four or five days a week for 6 or 7 miles a day. That’s about 8 to 10 cents a mile.

[Two Bills]

Just be grateful your electric is so cheap. In UK, it is app. 30+ cents a KWH.

[Indydealmaker]

Electric cost to power an EV cart is chump change (about a penny per mile). Gasoline cart fuel cost is 5 to 6 times higher. That chump change becomes thousands of dollars difference over the long haul.
We're old. We don't have a long haul.

[ehonour]

The reason for the particular analysis should determine whether you use marginal versus average.
Discuss.

This discussion is a great example of why we should all be cautious about believing statistics. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics." (Mark Twain)

And note that fuel cost is only one part of the difference between the cost of a gas cart vs. the cost of an electric cart. What about battery replacement? Both need it, but at what frequency and what cost? What about costs unique to a gas engine, such as annual oil changes and other maintenance? What about costs unique to an electric engine, such as brush changes and other maintenance?

[HORNET]

I have had two Yamaha gas carts since moving here. I have a friend neighbor who on his third set of batteries since 2010 at about $1200.00 a pop. I know that I didn’t put $3000.00 on gas since that time. Maybe new type batteries, but the older that an electric cart gets, you could have other costs!

[HORNET]

What about the cost of new batteries every few years?

[Two Bills]

What about the cost of new batteries every few years?

A little bit more than every few years, 8 to 12 years or approximately 1,700 to 3,500 hours.

[MorTech]

Correct. I sold my golf cart, as I wasn’t using it, but I drive a 2020 Prius Prime that has a battery I recharge on 110 from a standard outlet in my garage. This gives me 27 miles of driving on battery alone before the gas engine kicks in. My rough estimation, based on SECO’s 11 cents per KWH, and using the amount of recharging the owner’s manual says I can get, works out to TWO CENTS PER MILE. For electricity. I doubt that this costs me more than about $5 a month. Meanwhile, after four years in The Villages, not needing the gas engine very often, and with almost 50,000 miles on the car, its gas usage works out to 150 MPG. Not bad.

This road legal "cart" claims 100 watt-hours per mile :)

Aptera Motors (https://aptera.us)

700W max solar charging.

[MorTech]

What about the cost of new batteries every few years?

Great Point!

[MorTech]

The Delta-Q charger that came with the EZGO Elite lithium pulled 853W max from the wall.

I am sure I could get close to 80 watt-hours per mile with 30+ tire pressure

The EZGO RXV Elite lithium has regen braking so the brake energy is put back in the battery which is why the watt-hour rating is so low. The brakes have excellent stopping power (a bit touchy) with no brake pads to wear out.

USA and Canada has NatGas coming out of it's butt...umm...So to speak...So the cost is near zero. The shale fields are the largest in the world with the only exception of West Siberia, Russia. The Artic has unlimited NatGas. The stuff is bubbling out of the summer lakes in Greenand.

[MorTech]

Just be grateful your electric is so cheap. In UK, it is app. 30+ cents a KWH.

Dutch TTF is about 5X costlier than Henry Hub NatGas. The EU needs to annex Russia to West Siberia in order to get cheap and unlimited NatGas...I think that's the plan...wink...wink :)

[Paulz]

We are on a SECO Plan with variable rates throughout the day…midnight-6am .069/kw. Both our Tesla and STAR Sirius are set to charge in that time slot.

[MorTech]

We are on a SECO Plan with variable rates throughout the day…midnight-6am .069/kw. Both our Tesla and STAR Sirius are set to charge in that time slot.

Do you have a special electric meter on the house? What village do you live?

[Maker]

Here is my last 2 years of SECO cost. Total bill divided by total KW gives cost for cents per KWH

14.93 April 2022
14.36
15.27
15.33
15.24
17.46
17.79
19.21
18.63
19.63
19.01
18.57
17.29
16.44
16.14
16.09
16.30
13.02
13.97
15.08
15.42
14.75
15.06
14.71 March 2024

[Southwest737]

What about the cost of new batteries every few years?

I am on year 8 with my EZGO with lithium. Zero maintenance with a tiny notice in battery degradation. I lied. Maintenance includes new tires and a light bulb. Batteries good for at least 5 more years. Fuel cost a penny per mile. I have saved thousands of $$ in fuel and maintenance with this quick, quiet, efficient cart. 70-80 mile range more than adequate. You couldn’t give me an antiquated ICE powered cart. Well, you could but I would sell it.

[Southwest737]

We are on a SECO Plan with variable rates throughout the day…midnight-6am .069/kw. Both our Tesla and STAR Sirius are set to charge in that time slot.

I am on the SECO EV incentive which gives us a $7 per month credit. I see nothing on their website about variable rate plan. Although I have heard they plan to start a time based rate plan once all customers have the smart meters installed.

[UpNorth]

I am on year 8 with my EZGO with lithium. Zero maintenance with a tiny notice in battery degradation. I lied. Maintenance includes new tires and a light bulb. Batteries good for at least 5 more years. Fuel cost a penny per mile. I have saved thousands of $$ in fuel and maintenance with this quick, quiet, efficient cart. 70-80 mile range more than adequate. You couldn’t give me an antiquated ICE powered cart. Well, you could but I would sell it.

You mean you haven't run out of juice at least once a week? :icon_wink: And that the cart has not burst into flames in your garage?:icon_wink: And you don't miss the smell, noise and vibration of a gas cart? :icon_wink: Come on now!:faint:

[MorTech]

Pretty amazing that running an EZGO Elite is equivalent to running a 90W incandescent bulb.

[Two Bills]

If I ever had to part with my current ICE car, I think I would favor the Hybrid.
Prius seems very economical, and popular.
The only thing that would put me off buying one, is they are so bl**dy UGLY!

[MorTech]

If I ever had to part with my current ICE car, I think I would favor the Hybrid.
Prius seems very economical, and popular.
The only thing that would put me off buying one, is they are so bl**dy UGLY!

2025 Camry is a better value.

[PoolBrews]

What about the cost of new batteries every few years?

The 205ah lithium battery from Evolution has a 5 year full warranty and a life expectancy of 3000 charging cycles. A charging cycle is not every time you plug it in - 1 cycle = 100% charge. If I drive the cart down to 50%, then charge it, that's .5 cycles.

I've got 1,500 miles on my cart in 5 months with 21.5 cycles. If you extrapolate that it equates to 210,000 miles and 58 years.

No where near close to "every few years".

I'm pretty sure I'm going to want a new cart before I need a new battery. Replacement cost for a new battery is currently $3K. If something happens and I need a new battery after the warranty expires, I fully expect the prices on lithium batteries to be significantly less... but I've never kept a vehicle for 5 years anyway.

Getting an Evolution D5 saved me over $10K from buying a Star, EZ-Go or fully loaded Yamaha, and I have more features and a better ride than any of them.

I could replace my battery 3 times and still have saved money.

FYI - My old cart was a Yamaha Drive 2 fully loaded with El Tigre seats.

[MorTech]

Did the test with same operating conditions but with tire pressure at 30 PSI.

Got right at 80 watt-hours per mile or 0.67 cents per mile.

Just tire rolling resistance makes a big difference...gas or electric. The ride on the EZGO Elite is quite uncomfortable at that tire pressure.