Repairs dispute on closing

[CURLYSANDY]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

[Michael 61]

I had condensation in two windows of the home I sold last year in Colorado. Came up on the inspection report, and I had to replace the glass, or else would have had to offer a “credit” to the buyer.

[Toymeister]

This must be a transaction thru The Villages. Yes they consider that cosmetic. You stand to lose your deposit if you walk over:
$50 measuring fee
$181 labor to install
$ xxx cost of window (say 200.00)

I think the numbers speak for themselves. Numbers accurate as of Monday.

[Topspinmo]

IMO it is cosmetic item, the window function’s. If you don’t like it ask for replacement cost. if owner won’t accept it don’t buy it. But, may be too deep to pull out. Only you can make that decision. I have noticed most upgrade newly purchased home tearing out perfectly good counters, floors, appliances, sliding doors ext… anyway. Got ask yourself if window worth it?

[Arctic Fox]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

Had the seller agreed to correct all issues detailed by the Home Inspector?

[Stu from NYC]

If you are only talking about one window try to compromise or risk losing the deposit.

[mtdjed]

IMO it is cosmetic item, the window function’s. If you don’t like it ask for replacement cost. if owner won’t accept it don’t buy it. But, may be too deep to pull out. Only you can make that decision. I have noticed most upgrade newly purchased home tearing out perfectly good counters, floors, appliances, sliding doors ext… anyway. Got ask yourself if window worth it?

Window is defective. It was brought up by inspector. Depends on how strong you feel. Also,
whether your closing is contingent upon inspection items being satisfied as to loss of downpayment and other potential expenses if you do not close (lawyer Fees etc). Perhaps share the cost as a compromise.

A business lesson I learned years ago. Put things into perspective. If the window replacement is $250 on a multi hundred thousand dollar sale, and you have already had expenses (Like cost of inspection), if you walk away you are losing money. Perhaps you might even want to gift them their prized window when you replace it so they can install it in their new abode.

[SusanStCatherine]

Condensation between panes is a seal defect and is not just cosmetic (which is why the inspector noted it.) Sellers should repair it or give you an allowance for it. I do not think the homeowner gets to override the inspector.

[vintageogauge]

If the home is less than 10 years old it would still be under warranty, you would pay the cost of installation and measuring only.

[CURLYSANDY]

Many thanks all for your very helpful comments. I guess in the grand scheme of things, we are still purchasing our little piece of Florida - so I am happy.

[Mrprez]

Condensation between panes is a seal defect and is not just cosmetic (which is why the inspector noted it.) Sellers should repair it or give you an allowance for it. I do not think the homeowner gets to override the inspector.

The inspection report is not a to do list. The lender will require structural defects, building code violations, or safety issues to be fixed before funds are released. Cosmetic issues are negotiable.

[villagetinker]

Many thanks all for your very helpful comments. I guess in the grand scheme of things, we are still purchasing our little piece of Florida - so I am happy.

I agree with your decision, now you can contact Lake Glass and Mirror for a replacement of the glass, probably will be less than replacement of the entire window assembly.

And welcome to the villages.

[retiredguy123]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?
I'm confused that you are closing today. If this is a resale, any defects found during the inspection contingency period should been addressed and/or disputed at that time, which normally would have been long before the closing.

I would not consider condensation between the panes to be a cosmetic issue. The gas between the panes has leaked out, which compromises the thermal efficiency of the window.

[Blueblaze]

If it's through The Villages personal real estate office, and their pet closing office, good luck with that.

The day I closed on my fully-furnished CYV, I inspected the home on the way to closing to discover that the sellers had stolen the best chair in the house. It was on the contract inventory and I had a photo of the seller's agent sitting in the chair.

Despite my photo and the contract inventory, both the sellers and their agent claimed the chair was not included, and I would lose my $10,000 deposit if I refused the deal. The Villages pet closing agent agreed. But good news! My Villages fake realtor negotiated $100 for a $900 chair! Then they held me up for 30 minutes after the closing on various made-up issues, while the sellers were released.

I drove straight to the house, to discover the seller's Mercedes SUV in my driveway, with the master bedroom TV stand and TV in the back. I found them in my living room, having used their illegally retained key for entry. They were in the process of stealing my big-screen TV. We had words, and they called me a "Dumb Okie", apparently for stupidly thinking that a contract means what it says. I called the Villages pet law enforcement office -- the Sumter Country Sheriff -- who, after hearing the details, told me to take it up with my closing agent.

Bad window, you say? Suck it up! Whadaya think this is Oklahoma or somethin'?

[Stu from NYC]

If it's through The Villages personal real estate office, and their pet closing office, good luck with that.

The day I closed on my fully-furnished CYV, I inspected the home on the way to closing to discover that the sellers had stolen the best chair in the house. It was on the contract inventory and I had a photo of the seller's agent sitting in the chair.

Despite my photo and the contract inventory, both the sellers and their agent claimed the chair was not included, and I would lose my $10,000 deposit if I refused the deal. The Villages pet closing agent agreed. But good news! My Villages fake realtor negotiated $100 for a $900 chair! Then they held me up for 30 minutes after the closing on various made-up issues, while the sellers were released.

I drove straight to the house, to discover the seller's Mercedes SUV in my driveway, with the master bedroom TV stand and TV in the back. I found them in my living room, having used their illegally retained key for entry. They were in the process of stealing my big-screen TV. We had words, and they called me a "Dumb Okie", apparently for stupidly thinking that a contract means what it says. I called the Villages pet law enforcement office -- the Sumter Country Sheriff -- who, after hearing the details, told me to take it up with my closing agent.

Bad window, you say? Suck it up! Whadaya think this is Oklahoma or somethin'?

Who would have thought your seller could get away with that theft

[Toymeister]

now you can contact Lake Glass and Mirror for a replacement of the glass, probably will be less than replacement of the entire window assembly.

Your home windows are through Romac not Lake Glass. Call home warranty for the contact phone number.

[Toymeister]

I would not consider condensation between the panes to be a cosmetic issue. The gas between the panes has leaked out, which compromises the thermal efficiency of the window.

YOU may not consider this cosmetic but the listing agent and the selling agent as well as the arbitration firm that they use (per the listing agreement) consider them cosmetic. ALL Village agents consider them cosmetic, some may be smart enough to write in the contract to replace them, most will not think about it.

As many things in life, everyone has an opinion...

The prices stated by me for window replacement are accurate as I just ordered some windows Monday through Romac.

[frayedends]

As others have said I’m confused that it’s coming up on closing day. If your offer was contingent on satisfactory inspection and they didn’t agree to fix it at that time the deal should have been negotiated at that point.

As far as it being cosmetic, nope sorry not buying it. Now maybe I’m wrong because I’m in Massachusetts full time. But double glazed windows have a gas (usually argon) inside for insulation. If the seal is broken then the gas is gone and with it any insulation value. That is not cosmetic. Would I lose the deal over it, nope. It’s a few hundred bucks. So suck I’d suck it up.

[Inspector Mark]

The seller does not have to fix anything! The inspection is so you can learn about the condition of the house. Of course you have he right to back out of the deal for ANY REASON you find unsatisfactory.

In most real estate transactions there is give and take. In my experience, as a 30 year Home Inspection business owner, most sellers will make some concessions to keep the deal moving forward.

As a buyer, you had X amount of days for your inspection contingency period. If you are outside of the period you have excepted the house as is. if you back out now you could loose your earnest money deposit.

[scubawva]

I know, not think, it comes down to your contract.
Why is this an issue at closing and not during the contractual “inspection period”?
What do you want? Is this something that’s a deal-breaker?
What anyone thinks is irrelevant, you have a legally binding contract.

[Wayne Mudge]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

The condensation between panes is a defect due to broken seal. The moisture does have to go somewhere, sometimes into a wall cavity where it rots the wood and also causes mold growth. If the seller has not fixed that issue, which I am sure he knew about, the question is: what other problems has he ignored?. You Realtor should be insistent of the repair prior to closing or just don't close. there are tons of homes out there for sale.

[frayedends]

The condensation between panes is a defect due to broken seal. The moisture does have to go somewhere, sometimes into a wall cavity where it rots the wood and also causes mold growth. If the seller has not fixed that issue, which I am sure he knew about, the question is: what other problems has he ignored?. You Realtor should be insistent of the repair prior to closing or just don't close. there are tons of homes out there for sale.

Someone can't "just don't close." As mentioned a few times, what does the purchase and sale contract state? If there was an inspection there has to be some language on what is required and when. If a buyer just backs out of a deal they could lose their deposit.

[GizmoWhiskers]

I'm confused that you are closing today. If this is a resale, any defects found during the inspection contingency period should been addressed and/or disputed at that time, which normally would have been long before the closing.

I would not consider condensation between the panes to be a cosmetic issue. The gas between the panes has leaked out, which compromises the thermal efficiency of the window.
Yes, how is it that the issue is still being pondered on the day of closing?

Also if it is a pre-owned T V sales the seller had to agree to quite a large amount for potential repair costs. When I sold my house in T V it was 1% of the listing amount. The fairly large number really scared me on the sale of a 3 yr old house.

Stupid me didn't have an inspection done on the new build. There was a torn shingle clearly torn by a worker not weather related on the roof and a garage exterior light socket that was manufactured wrong and never worked. I never used that light so had no idea it never worked. I was happy these were cheap fixes but during the inspection period it was requested that I fix them so as they were not cosmetic I did.

Realtor did a bad imo. They should have represented if buyer pressed for a fix.

Agree condensation is sign of moisture and in FL that is never a good thing nor would that seem to be cosmetic as it can mean window seal is defective. Owner should have dealt with that at some previous point.

[MikeN]

Walk away

[banjobob]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?
Normal wear and tear iits a used house!!!!

[HoosierPa]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

Walk away or take as is and fix yourself or close and don’t fix it.
Those are your 3 options so decide which you want to do.

[Mrmean58]

If the home is less than 10 years old it would still be under warranty, you would pay the cost of installation and measuring only.

While the window may still be under warranty, the seller should initiate the replacement. As called out earlier, it is defective. If both parties agreed to the need for a home inspection, any item cosmetic or not can be called to address as a condition of closing.
Personally, if not corrected or a full credit provided in escrow, I won't close and would start the paperwork to have my deposit returned in full. The seller has a lot to lose in a case like this.

[Travelhunter123]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

Play hard ball
Call up your agent and state you will not attend the close unless there is monetary consideration provided by him or the seller

[nn0wheremann]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?
Money talks, bulls**t walks. If the sales contract requires repair, demand it or pull out of closing. Whatever the cost of the repair, double it. Seller was supposed to get the work done.

[frayedends]

Please ignore the people telling you to walk away. They don’t know what is in your contract. You generally can’t just walk away on closing day without serious repercussions.

ETA: the closing was yesterday so my post is meaningless for the op (who already stated they are moving forward). So my post is more for the people saying to walk away.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Condensation between panes is a seal defect and is not just cosmetic (which is why the inspector noted it.) Sellers should repair it or give you an allowance for it. I do not think the homeowner gets to override the inspector.

Agree
The condensation is normally representative of argon gas being released from the pane. So definitely an insulation issue...not just cosmetic. See if the seller will meet you in the middle on replacement....small moral victory. If not, I agree with earlier post, on the overall purchase (assuming everything else is on the level), I wouldn’t walk away from the deal for a few hundred dollar fix

[rsmurano]

I have friends that asked me to look over their home the day before they closed. There was about $800-$1000 worth of items that were not fixed after the inspection a month prior. My friends were so p1ssed they were going to walk away instead of closing. Instead, the seller setup a pot of money that both parties agreed too to fix the items. The parties closed on the house the next day.
All of this should have been in the purchase agreement: based on the inspection, all items should be repaired before closing, at least that’s what I have put in the contract.
I sold my last home on my own and I stated “as is”, I would not fix anything and I didn’t. The buyer still had it inspected to make sure if anything was found, the buyer would have to determine was it worth pursuing if the inspector found anything. Inspection was clean.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I have friends that asked me to look over their home the day before they closed. There was about $800-$1000 worth of items that were not fixed after the inspection a month prior. My friends were so p1ssed they were going to walk away instead of closing. Instead, the seller setup a pot of money that both parties agreed too to fix the items. The parties closed on the house the next day.
All of this should have been in the purchase agreement: based on the inspection, all items should be repaired before closing, at least that’s what I have put in the contract.
I sold my last home on my own and I stated “as is”, I would not fix anything and I didn’t. The buyer still had it inspected to make sure if anything was found, the buyer would have to determine was it worth pursuing if the inspector found anything. Inspection was clean.

I’m pretty sure even under your description....if it’s disclosed in an inspection that there was mold or foundation issues etc....you would be held liable for that. Obviously you can walk away as could the buyer if you chose not to fix anything...but doesn’t absolve you from that liability.

[Gunny2403]

It’s not cosmetic, it is seal failure. Having said that, replacing is not difficult.

[RRGuyNJ]

IMO it is cosmetic item, the window function’s. If you don’t like it ask for replacement cost. if owner won’t accept it don’t buy it. But, may be too deep to pull out. Only you can make that decision. I have noticed most upgrade newly purchased home tearing out perfectly good counters, floors, appliances, sliding doors ext… anyway. Got ask yourself if window worth it?

This is definitely more than a cosmetic issue. The gas filled glass panes have failed and results in a loss of energy efficiency. Yes, it's probably an extremely small loss in efficiency overall/. That coupled with the incredibly high price of homes in The Villages, things should be prim and proper when buying and selling.
Now if it's an older home, say 20 years and up it may be a somewhat fixer upper. Then I would just shrug it off.

[gighilton]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

Most likely the window pane seals are broken or compromised. It causes condensation between the two window panes... doesn't look good, and the window is not funtonal...but its up to you and the seller who pays for the repair.

[Dot Rheinhardt]

Many thanks all for your very helpful comments. I guess in the grand scheme of things, we are still purchasing our little piece of Florida - so I am happy.

We had an issue on a silly item after the buyer wanted repairs not noted by their inspector. I balked - enough was enough. I said we didn't need to sell. The listing and selling agent split the cost.

[merrymini]

This is an issue on the day of closing? Does not sound right. Is somebody just stirring the pot here?

[ron32162]

Cosmetic issues can be remedied sometimes, BUT it will not cancel a contract you would be in default of the contract and you would loose your deposit or more.

[Rich42]

That is exactly why you should have a lawyer at the closing. Lots of little unexpected things can come up at closings and without a lawyer you are virtually helpless. I have had things like this happen many times at closings and without a lawyer I would’ve been on the losing end every time.

[Stu from NYC]

Hoping OP comes back to tell us what happened

[Calisport]

Sold a house on the west coast. All windows had lost their air pocket and was noted in inspection. It was just an 15 year old window issue back then and maybe cosmetic only so the buyer just accepted that and other requests. The inspector originally marked down every little thing he saw so I had to give an explanation for each and the buyer still bought the house. Your realtor should be the expert for you.

[retiredguy123]

Sold a house on the west coast. All windows had lost their air pocket and was noted in inspection. It was just an 15 year old window issue back then and maybe cosmetic only so the buyer just accepted that and other requests. The inspector originally marked down every little thing he saw so I had to give an explanation for each and the buyer still bought the house. Your realtor should be the expert for you.
Note that most buyers are not represented by a real estate agent, only the seller.

[Topspinmo]

Window is defective. It was brought up by inspector. Depends on how strong you feel. Also,
whether your closing is contingent upon inspection items being satisfied as to loss of downpayment and other potential expenses if you do not close (lawyer Fees etc). Perhaps share the cost as a compromise.

A business lesson I learned years ago. Put things into perspective. If the window replacement is $250 on a multi hundred thousand dollar sale, and you have already had expenses (Like cost of inspection), if you walk away you are losing money. Perhaps you might even want to gift them their prized window when you replace it so they can install it in their new abode.

You’re talking to wrong horse :shrug: I’m not in race.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So - just an interesting aside about "losing your deposit" - when our home was up for sale up north, we had the same situation. A buyer wanted to pull out a couple weeks before closing, because it turned out he didn't qualify for the mortgage that he claimed he had pre-approved. We had the right to keep the deposit. But then their lawyer informed us that he would sue us for the deposit, which was in escrow. And we wouldn't be allowed to re-list the house for sale until the courts decided on the suit. So then WE had to decide if it was worth several months or even possibly years of paying mortgage on a home we no longer could afford to live in, because the deposit on a purchase was stuck in escrow - or if we'd just give the guy his deposit back and carry on with our lives.

So we ended up giving the guy his deposit back. We hated that. But if the potential buyer wants to play games, he COULD tie up the sale of the property with a lawsuit, even if he signed his right away when he made the offer.

[Topspinmo]

If it's through The Villages personal real estate office, and their pet closing office, good luck with that.

The day I closed on my fully-furnished CYV, I inspected the home on the way to closing to discover that the sellers had stolen the best chair in the house. It was on the contract inventory and I had a photo of the seller's agent sitting in the chair.

Despite my photo and the contract inventory, both the sellers and their agent claimed the chair was not included, and I would lose my $10,000 deposit if I refused the deal. The Villages pet closing agent agreed. But good news! My Villages fake realtor negotiated $100 for a $900 chair! Then they held me up for 30 minutes after the closing on various made-up issues, while the sellers were released.

I drove straight to the house, to discover the seller's Mercedes SUV in my driveway, with the master bedroom TV stand and TV in the back. I found them in my living room, having used their illegally retained key for entry. They were in the process of stealing my big-screen TV. We had words, and they called me a "Dumb Okie", apparently for stupidly thinking that a contract means what it says. I called the Villages pet law enforcement office -- the Sumter Country Sheriff -- who, after hearing the details, told me to take it up with my closing agent.

Bad window, you say? Suck it up! Whadaya think this is Oklahoma or somethin'?


I’m surprised you didn’t want the MB also. After all fully furnished in your mine would include the car and all personal items. IMO selling house furnish means they don’t want what in house and it usually don’t make more than couple thousand difference in price. But, the jerk should have said it don’t include these items. I agree should have been arrested for being in house after closing.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I’m surprised you didn’t want the MB also. After all fully furnished in your mine would include the car and all personal items. IMO selling house furnish means they don’t want what in house and it usually don’t make more than couple thousand difference in price.

I don't want anybody's Bed Bug and Beyond furnishings. I can see an investor or flipper...but if it's your 'forever home', buy or bring your own stuff

[Lea N]

If it's through The Villages personal real estate office, and their pet closing office, good luck with that.

The day I closed on my fully-furnished CYV, I inspected the home on the way to closing to discover that the sellers had stolen the best chair in the house. It was on the contract inventory and I had a photo of the seller's agent sitting in the chair.

Despite my photo and the contract inventory, both the sellers and their agent claimed the chair was not included, and I would lose my $10,000 deposit if I refused the deal. The Villages pet closing agent agreed. But good news! My Villages fake realtor negotiated $100 for a $900 chair! Then they held me up for 30 minutes after the closing on various made-up issues, while the sellers were released.

I drove straight to the house, to discover the seller's Mercedes SUV in my driveway, with the master bedroom TV stand and TV in the back. I found them in my living room, having used their illegally retained key for entry. They were in the process of stealing my big-screen TV. We had words, and they called me a "Dumb Okie", apparently for stupidly thinking that a contract means what it says. I called the Villages pet law enforcement office -- the Sumter Country Sheriff -- who, after hearing the details, told me to take it up with my closing agent.

Bad window, you say? Suck it up! Whadaya think this is Oklahoma or somethin'?

Wow!! Just wow!!

[Shipping up to Boston]

If it's through The Villages personal real estate office, and their pet closing office, good luck with that.

The day I closed on my fully-furnished CYV, I inspected the home on the way to closing to discover that the sellers had stolen the best chair in the house. It was on the contract inventory and I had a photo of the seller's agent sitting in the chair.

Despite my photo and the contract inventory, both the sellers and their agent claimed the chair was not included, and I would lose my $10,000 deposit if I refused the deal. The Villages pet closing agent agreed. But good news! My Villages fake realtor negotiated $100 for a $900 chair! Then they held me up for 30 minutes after the closing on various made-up issues, while the sellers were released.

I drove straight to the house, to discover the seller's Mercedes SUV in my driveway, with the master bedroom TV stand and TV in the back. I found them in my living room, having used their illegally retained key for entry. They were in the process of stealing my big-screen TV. We had words, and they called me a "Dumb Okie", apparently for stupidly thinking that a contract means what it says. I called the Villages pet law enforcement office -- the Sumter Country Sheriff -- who, after hearing the details, told me to take it up with my closing agent.

Bad window, you say? Suck it up! Whadaya think this is Oklahoma or somethin'?

Where's Grady Judd when you need him? Under the same scenario you described, at least in Polk County....under arrest

[HORNET]

WOW! Your getting #######

[Suzieque]

If it's through The Villages personal real estate office, and their pet closing office, good luck with that.

The day I closed on my fully-furnished CYV, I inspected the home on the way to closing to discover that the sellers had stolen the best chair in the house. It was on the contract inventory and I had a photo of the seller's agent sitting in the chair.

Despite my photo and the contract inventory, both the sellers and their agent claimed the chair was not included, and I would lose my $10,000 deposit if I refused the deal. The Villages pet closing agent agreed. But good news! My Villages fake realtor negotiated $100 for a $900 chair! Then they held me up for 30 minutes after the closing on various made-up issues, while the sellers were released.

I drove straight to the house, to discover the seller's Mercedes SUV in my driveway, with the master bedroom TV stand and TV in the back. I found them in my living room, having used their illegally retained key for entry. They were in the process of stealing my big-screen TV. We had words, and they called me a "Dumb Okie", apparently for stupidly thinking that a contract means what it says. I called the Villages pet law enforcement office -- the Sumter Country Sheriff -- who, after hearing the details, told me to take it up with my closing agent.

Bad window, you say? Suck it up! Whadaya think this is Oklahoma or somethin'?

We had something similar happen but with an independent agent. When we view the house and made our offer, we asked for the paint ca s, a file cabinet and some wood to be removed. When we went to the house after signing, EVERYTHING that was in the house had been removed EXCEPT the paint cans and the wood! The seller's realtor said the house was still the owners and they could remove what they wanted. When that realtor came a few days later to pick up his lock box, I said sorry, I own the house now so it's mine.

[Stu from NYC]

We had something similar happen but with an independent agent. When we view the house and made our offer, we asked for the paint ca s, a file cabinet and some wood to be removed. When we went to the house after signing, EVERYTHING that was in the house had been removed EXCEPT the paint cans and the wood! The seller's realtor said the house was still the owners and they could remove what they wanted. When that realtor came a few days later to pick up his lock box, I said sorry, I own the house now so it's mine.

Good for you

[Stu from NYC]

OP working on another thread so guess he is not going to bother coming back. oh well

[goneil2024]

Condensation between panes is a seal defect and is not just cosmetic (which is why the inspector noted it.) Sellers should repair it or give you an allowance for it. I do not think the homeowner gets to override the inspector.

I would review and consider the following:

1. What exactly does the Purchase and Sale Agreement state wrt curing conditions?
2. Cost to repair vs. Loss and expenses incurred, time you spent and materiality of the issue.
3. If seller is not obligated per the written agreement then from a practical standpoint is it really worth the brain damage and expenses incurred to pass on the deal?
4. As noted by other commentators it comes down to the facts and your risk appetite.

[Maker]

If buying a house, with lots of extras included like furniture and appliances... Have 2 separate deals so the house sale price is not artificially high causing subsequent property taxes to also be higher. Why would anyone want to pay property tax on a couch ... forever?

[kodalittle]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

We have been on both sides. One was cosmetic and the other was warranty. So you might have to just be happy with the house your getting.

[kodalittle]

Condensation between panes is a seal defect and is not just cosmetic (which is why the inspector noted it.) Sellers should repair it or give you an allowance for it. I do not think the homeowner gets to override the inspector.

It doesn't work that way. We had one house that had condensation in the windows and it sold as is to the villages. We had another house that was under warranty and it had condensation in some of the windows and it was sold after the windows were replaced. So basically.
It depends on the situation. Not all situations are the same.

[Angelhug52]

If the home is less than 10 years old it would still be under warranty, you would pay the cost of installation and measuring only.
And depending what county it is in must get permit. Get all your,information and then ask for the money.. We used Romac years ago for window replacement.

[gighilton]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

If you are adamant, don't close unless he credits you for repair. This should have been handled before this point in closing..It a lot late to even discuss in this forum... either close or dont' close.

[John Bonneau]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

It's probably a broken seal in the window. The only thing that matters is what did you agree to in writing per the sales contract. Was a repair addendum sent to the seller by your agent requesting the following repairs? If so, then if the repair is not complete, the title company needs to prepare addendum to hold seller funds in escrow to complete repair after closing. If no repair request was sent to seller requesting this repair per the contract requirements of (warranted items) to be repaired by the seller prior to closing, with a licensed contractor and receipts to be provided to buyer prior to closing then you are closing, and seller is not responsible. This repair request must be in writing and agreed to by all parties per contract requirements and timelines set forth in your sale and purchase contract.

[sallyg]

We had to give our buyer a credit on window replacement for the same reason. We considered it cosmetic, and a rather aggravating concession on our part, but wanted to close the deal. Read thru your sales agreement very carefully. You may find that fogged windows are considered a defect. The real question is - how badly do you want the house?

[MikeVillages]

We had the same issue two years ago.. We got an estimate and the price of a repair at subtracted at closing. Your realtor should have written your offer. Where a realtor is the lawyer, they should have input on what is common practice in TV.

PS
A window that has moisture between the glass is no longer insulated do is defeced. But you cannot get s replace window, only replacing the glass.

[Warren]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?
Home inspection is for your benefit. Buyer beware. you have done your homework. Did you want the house after the inspection? Usually there is a 3 day out if you are not satisfied with the discoveries. Unless the seller has agreed to repair as a part of the contract, he is not obligated to pay. Doesn't make any difference whether it is cosmetic or more serious needed repair. I sold a lot of houses in my day. I got tired of the buyer "nickeling and dimeing " me. i started putting in my contracts that i would pay for anything over $500 and up to $5,000 and "consider" all others. This eliminated endless "punch list" and reinspections that had to be completed prior to closings.

[retiredguy123]

We had the same issue two years ago.. We got an estimate and the price of a repair at subtracted at closing. Your realtor should have written your offer. Where a realtor is the lawyer, they should have input on what is common practice in TV.

PS
A window that has moisture between the glass is no longer insulated do is defeced. But you cannot get s replace window, only replacing the glass.
Again, most buyers do not have a real estate agent who represents them, unless they have signed a buyer's agent contract, or they have hired an attorney. Otherwise, the agent represents the seller, per the listing contract.

[Robojo]

Advice please - we are closing today and the Seller has refused to replace a double glazed upper window sash which the Home Inspector noted had condensation between the panes. The Seller is stating this is a cosmetic issue, so won't repair. Just wondered what you folks thought please?

If you can afford it just fix it when you get the house.

If you can't afford it it'll probably cost you more to walk away.

IMHO AS A BUYER You need to have these things agreed on during your due diligence period.

[Shipping up to Boston]

OP posted (#10) that they closed on the home or are closing. I do it as well at times (not read all posts).

OP....can you post how the issue was mitigated?

[Stu from NYC]

OP posted (#10) that they closed on the home or are closing. I do it as well at times (not read all posts).

OP....can you post how the issue was mitigated?

oops thanks for that correction

[Blueblaze]

The seller does not have to fix anything! The inspection is so you can learn about the condition of the house. Of course you have he right to back out of the deal for ANY REASON you find unsatisfactory.

In most real estate transactions there is give and take. In my experience, as a 30 year Home Inspection business owner, most sellers will make some concessions to keep the deal moving forward.

As a buyer, you had X amount of days for your inspection contingency period. If you are outside of the period you have excepted the house as is. if you back out now you could loose your earnest money deposit.

Well that's BS. Yes, you have the right to back out of the contract, if you're willing to give up your $10,000 deposit. Which is the same thing as saying, "Tough luck, Buddy, we hold all the cards, and, unless you're willing to spend $10K on a lawyer we don't own -- suck it up".

[Blueblaze]

I’m surprised you didn’t want the MB also. After all fully furnished in your mine would include the car and all personal items. IMO selling house furnish means they don’t want what in house and it usually don’t make more than couple thousand difference in price. But, the jerk should have said it don’t include these items. I agree should have been arrested for being in house after closing.

READ MY POST YOU COPIED.

The jerk Seller (and his jerk Villages Agent) specifically wrote into the contract that the ITEMS (they stole) WERE INCLUDED. There was an inventory. I took pictures of everything on that inventory. It made no difference. Contracts are only meaningful when you deal with honest people.

[miadford@gmail.com]

Any repairs that were supposed and agreed to be replaced had to have been done prior to closing. If your agent did not have your contract updated to show requested repairs then I’m afraid you are out of luck. But if you both signed an agreement to have it repaired then you can close today and the title company will escrow the amount needed (if there was an estimate provided), to fix or replace the window. It all comes down to your real estate contract.

[retiredguy123]

Well that's BS. Yes, you have the right to back out of the contract, if you're willing to give up your $10,000 deposit. Which is the same thing as saying, "Tough luck, Buddy, we hold all the cards, and, unless you're willing to spend $10K on a lawyer we don't own -- suck it up".
It depends on how the inspection contingency is written. In some cases, the buyer can cancel the sale if they don't like the inspection results. In other cases, the seller has the right to correct certain defects. But, the earnest money deposit is held in escrow by a third party, not by the seller. It is rarely forfeited.

[Blueblaze]

It depends on how the inspection contingency is written. In some cases, the buyer can cancel the sale if they don't like the inspection results. In other cases, the seller has the right to correct certain defects. But, the earnest money deposit is held in escrow by a third party, not by the seller. It is rarely forfeited.

There is no inspection contigency when the issue is failure to deliver all of the property described in the contract. The word for that is breach of contract. And the "third party"? That would be "the Villages" closing agency, held in an account at the Villages pet bank, Citizens.

As I said before, contracts are for honest people. They are worthless when dealing with crooks. Fortuantely, they were petty crooks, and all it cost me was a grand or so. My point is that The Villages hold all the cards in these deals, and the only thing they care about is closing the deal. They are certainly not going to let you walk over a cracked window or stolen chair. There is no "Third Party" to enforce the contact, as there would be in any normal real estate transaction.

[MikeVillages]

Again, most buyers do not have a real estate agent who represents them, unless they have signed a buyer's agent contract, or they have hired an attorney. Otherwise, the agent represents the seller, per the listing contract.
Was this a MLS or VLS listing? There is NO REASON not to have a buyer agent if it was MLS. When we bought our home we tried both. We were unhappy with VLS agents & resales. We ended up with MLS. We did not sign an agent agrement until we made an offer.

[retiredguy123]

Was this a MLS or VLS listing? There is NO REASON not to have a buyer agent if it was MLS. When we bought our home we tried both. We were unhappy with VLS agents & resales. We ended up with MLS. We did not sign an agent agrement until we made an offer.
In Florida, real estate agents can represent the buyer or the seller, but not both. Dual agents are illegal. An agent can be a transactional agent, but only with the written consent of the seller. As a seller, I would not provide this consent. That is the law. As a seller, all agents who show my house or receive part of the commission that I pay at closing would be representing me, the seller. If a buyer wants an agent to represent them, they would need to pay for that representation.

[MikeVillages]

... If a buyer wants an agent to represent them, they would need to pay for that representation.Not true.
We had a buyer agent and his fees were paid by the seller. That is the current MLS rules. Maybe VLS is different.

If you disagree, please send a link to the Florida law. The law is required to state this otherwise MLS rules apply.

PS
We almost made an order on a VLS home. Their was only a seller agent. One of the things we disliked about the contract was it stated holes is screens are cosmetic, not defects. WTF! We did not wasted time with VLS after that.

[retiredguy123]

Not true.
We had a buyer agent and his fees were paid by the seller. That is the current MLS rules. Maybe VLS is different.

If you disagree, please send a link to the Florida law. The law is required to state this otherwise MLS rules apply.

PS
We almost made an order on a VLS home. Their was only a seller agent. One of the things we disliked about the contract was it stated holes is screens are cosmetic, not defects. WTF! We did not wasted time with VLS after that.
I don't agree. I know that some buyer's agents expect to be paid from the commission that is paid by the seller. But, as a seller, I would refuse to pay the buyer's agent, or I wouldn't sign the listing contract. The listing contract is negotiable. Florida law doesn't require the seller to pay the buyer's agent anything. In fact, the seller is not even required to allow a buyer's agent to show their house.

[Blueblaze]

In Florida, real estate agents can represent the buyer or the seller, but not both. Dual agents are illegal. An agent can be a transactional agent, but only with the written consent of the seller. As a seller, I would not provide this consent. That is the law. As a seller, all agents who show my house or receive part of the commission that I pay at closing would be representing me, the seller. If a buyer wants an agent to represent them, they would need to pay for that representation.

And the way they get away with this, is that both "agents" are employees of the Villages Realty -- as is the listing service, the title company, and the bank that holds the escrow money. If you want to buy a VLS house, that's just the way it works. You walk into it under the assumption that the Villages is a respectable organization that would never engage in petty thievery, and you fork over an absurd deposit on that assumption. The problem is that the people involved are making a ridiculous percentage on the deal, and they know they hold all the cards. In our case, even the Sheriff's office was in on the act -- no, they didn't get a cut, but they sure as hell know who butters their bread in Sumter County. They literally refused arrest a thief I encountered in my own living room, stealing my TV, rather than get involved in a VLS transaction. I couldn't believe my ears.

We live in a company town. There are lots of benefits to that, or we wouldn't be here. It's by and large a well-run place, because of that fact. But the other side of it is, the moment you get between a VLS agent and his commission, you're on your own. I didn't get my chair, end table, or bedroom TV back. You won't get your window fixed. In the grand scheme, it's a pretty trivial complaint. Deal with it.

[MikeVillages]

Not true.
We had a buyer agent and his fees were paid by the seller. That is the current MLS rules for an MLS agent. Maybe VLS is different.

If you disagree, please send a link to the Florida law. The law is required to state this otherwise MLS rules apply.
I don't agree. I know that some buyer's agents expect to be paid from the commission that is paid by the seller. But, as a seller, I would refuse to pay the buyer's agent, or I wouldn't sign the listing contract. The listing contract is negotiable. Florida law doesn't require the seller to pay the buyer's agent anything. In fact, the seller is not even required to allow a buyer's agent to show their house.

If you don't sign the listing contract, you much sell it on your own. Yes, contracts are negotiable but not the MLS rules. I did not say the law requires the seller to pay buyer's agent. MLS listings follow MLS rules.
Again, please provide a link to the state law you talk about. This will confirm if you are correct or not.

[retiredguy123]

If you don't sign the listing contract, you much sell it on your own. Yes, contracts are negotiable but not the MLS rules. I did not say the law requires the seller to pay buyer's agent. MLS listings follow MLS rules.
Again, please provide a link to the state law you talk about. This will confirm if you are correct or not.
Florida statute 475.278 prohibits dual agents, and requires the written consent of the seller to transition to a transactional broker.

[MikeVillages]

Florida statute 475.278 prohibits dual agents, and requires the written consent of the seller to transition to a transactional broker.

Please REREAD the Florida law you referenced to.
The law states a brokerage relationship is either a transactional broker or a single agent with potential buyers and sellers. Written consent is only required when an agent changes their role. It does NOT mandate who pays the realtor's commissions as you have stated nor the buyer may not have their own agent.

I have been consistent. For MLS listings, MLS rules apply. Current MLS rules mandate that the seller pays both agents. MLS rules may change in the future but if you have sold your home using MLS, the seller paid both agent's commissions. Of Course, MLS rules may change in the future.

PS
I recently confirmed this with a license Florida agent.

[retiredguy123]

Please REREAD the Florida law you referenced to.
The law states a brokerage relationship is either a transactional broker or a single agent with potential buyers and sellers. Written consent is only required when an agent changes their role. It does NOT mandate who pays the realtor's commissions as you have stated nor the buyer may not have their own agent.

I have been consistent. For MLS listings, MLS rules apply. Current MLS rules mandate that the seller pays both agents. MLS rules may change in the future but if you have sold your home using MLS, the seller paid both agent's commissions. Of Course, MLS rules may change in the future.

PS
I recently confirmed this with a license Florida agent.
You have stayed the law correctly. As a seller, I can hire an agent to represent me, and I am not required to allow the agent to transition to a transactional agent. Also, I am not required to pay any money to a buyer's agent. That is the law. I don't care what the MLS rules are. If the broker doesn't like my conditions, they won't get the listing. I will either sell the house as a FSBO or hire a non-MLS agent, like a Villages agent. But, there is no way that I would agree to pay a commission to an agent who is representing the buyer.