People’s Commissioner Miller Reinstated

[Normal]

Yes, the governor has reseated commissioner Miller to his seat at the county board! Oren won by a landslide last time, but was railroaded and tripped up by prosecutors looking for anything to stick. It took more than a year to have him acquitted of all charges. Welcome back commissioner!

https://www.**************.com/2024/05/19/gov-desantis-issues-executive-order-reinstating-oren-miller/

[Shipping up to Boston]

Yes, the governor has reseated commissioner Miller to his seat at the county board! Oren won by a landslide last time, but was railroaded and tripped up by prosecutors looking for anything to stick. It took more than a year to have him acquitted of all charges. Welcome back commissioner!

https://www.**************.com/2024/05/19/gov-desantis-issues-executive-order-reinstating-oren-miller/

I, for one, will work hard in any way I can to make sure he retains the seat in August.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Yes, the governor has reseated commissioner Miller to his seat at the county board! Oren won by a landslide last time, but was railroaded and tripped up by prosecutors looking for anything to stick. It took more than a year to have him acquitted of all charges. Welcome back commissioner!

https://www.**************.com/2024/05/19/gov-desantis-issues-executive-order-reinstating-oren-miller/

No disrespect to Mr Wiley, who appears to be a good and decent man ....but this whole saga was unnecessary.

[Taltarzac725]

No disrespect to Mr Wiley, who appears to be a good and decent man ....but this whole saga was unnecessary.

Agree. It was making everything out of almost nothing at all. Talks about setting up an animal shelter or something like that.

[Normal]

No disrespect to Mr Wiley, who appears to be a good and decent man ....but this whole saga was unnecessary.

Correct. It’s just that we elected Oren Miller, we didn’t ask for some leader to appoint their own desires as a commissioner. I don’t think Oren will have many problems retaining his seat. He’s a good guy and we all want him to succeed for the good of everyone.

[Stu from NYC]

I like Don Wiley and not sure who I will vote for but the Sun sure did a hatchet job on Oren this morning.

[Two Bills]

Agree. It was making nothing out of almost nothing at all. Talks about setting up a animal shelter or something like that.

Two nothing's!
Wrong thread Tal.:icon_wink:

[mrf0151]

Sumter County is much more in line with conservative values. Being that Oren is really a Democrat(RINO) and Don Wiley is a true conservative, Don will prevail in the election later this year.

[Bilyclub]

I don't want to pay for his wife's lavish dog pound.
Wiley has a shot at winning.

[Shipping up to Boston]

It’ll be a fun primary. Two good guys with experience at varying levels. Can’t go wrong either way IMO

[Taltarzac725]

Two nothing's!
Wrong thread Tal.:icon_wink:

I fixed it.

[kingofbeer]

Sumter County is much more in line with conservative values. Being that Oren is really a Democrat(RINO) and Don Wiley is a true conservative, Don will prevail in the election later this year.
Miller should have been reinstated as soon as his conviction was overturned. I will vote for Miller. Republicans keep on raising our county taxes.

[Two Bills]

I fixed it.

Nothing personal!:icon_wink:

[Shipping up to Boston]

I don't want to pay for his wife's lavish dog pound.
Wiley has a shot at winning.

Non issue
Dons a dog lover and a breeder! ;)

[Normal]

Non issue
Dons a dog lover and a breeder! ;)

Yes, he still has many. His puppy mill is doing fine.

[Stu from NYC]

Will be an interesting election. Wonder if Wiley will accept donations for all of the developers cronies?

[Michael 61]

Don is much more aligned with the values of most of us here in Sumter County.

[BigSteph]

No disrespect to Mr Wiley, who appears to be a good and decent man ....but this whole saga was unnecessary.


I moved down after Oren had been elected, and roughly around the time he was indicted. Wiley seems like a reasonable person. I have no "dog" in this fight (pardon the pun).

For me the real heartburn is that I thought Wiley actually won re-election. Am I wrong on this?

I know he was Selected to fill the rest of Oren's term, but I thought he won an election on his own to fill the next term. If he were removed during the Appointed term, I can see no foul in reinstating Oren. But, to remove a duly elected official, is beyond the pale for me.

If I am wrong, I stand corrected and will feel better.

If I am correct, I am upset that a governor would overturn the People's will. What remedy for one individual is so important to dismiss the will of many.

Since the next election is in August, why do this at all.

If the government screws up a prosecution of a government official, why make the people's will moot.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Here come the purple shrouds and Nike's! Smh

[BigSteph]

Here come the purple shrouds and Nike's! Smh


What does that mean?

[Shipping up to Boston]

What does that mean?

Was not directed at you...

Your post is relevant but remember...the Governor giveth and taketh. He had the right to do both (appoint Don initially....return Oren). Credit Don for accepting the Gov decision and not playing into conspiracy or other theories. Thats a character move and will serve him well in August. Again, its not the perfect situation but a wrong was righted IMO

[dewilson58]

When is the next election, so we know what the people want.

[Bogie Shooter]

Here come the purple shrouds and Nike's! Smh

What does that mean?

Was not directed at you...

Your post is relevant but remember...the Governor giveth and taketh. He had the right to do both (appoint Don initially....return Oren). Credit Don for accepting the Gov decision and not playing into conspiracy or other theories. Thats a character move and will serve him well in August. Again, its not the perfect situation but a wrong was righted IMO

Seemed like a fair question.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Seemed like a fair question.

Some things are better left unsaid or further elaborate upon.... on here. I'm not blind to 'guest' admin/moderators....nor those who 'doth protest too much' to same. Carry on

[Bill14564]

I moved down after Oren had been elected, and roughly around the time he was indicted. Wiley seems like a reasonable person. I have no "dog" in this fight (pardon the pun).

For me the real heartburn is that I thought Wiley actually won re-election. Am I wrong on this?

I know he was Selected to fill the rest of Oren's term, but I thought he won an election on his own to fill the next term. If he were removed during the Appointed term, I can see no foul in reinstating Oren. But, to remove a duly elected official, is beyond the pale for me.

If I am wrong, I stand corrected and will feel better.

If I am correct, I am upset that a governor would overturn the People's will. What remedy for one individual is so important to dismiss the will of many.

Since the next election is in August, why do this at all.

If the government screws up a prosecution of a government official, why make the people's will moot.

When is the next election, so we know what the people want.

Per the Sumter County Supervisor of Elections (https://elections.sumtercountyfl.gov/Elections/Seats-up-for-Election) and the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners (https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/67/About-the-Commissioners), Commissioners serve for four years and seats 1, 3, and 5 are up for election this year (2024). This means the 2022 election must have been an off-cycle election due to the resignation, removal, and appointments.

It's tough to say what is "fair" and what is the "will of the people." Reinstating Miller may not be the most desirable action to take but it might be what is legally required. Fortunately, the "will of the people" question will likely be answered in August.

[Normal]

When is the next election, so we know what the people want.

Remember Don Burgess, Al Butler and Steve Printz, were ousted after they angered constituents by supporting a 24 percent tax-rate increase in 2019. That’s why we got Search and Miller elected as commissioners, to lesson the typical taxpayer’s burdens. Pro developer commissioners will only place more burdens on residents and remove pressures from the developer. I look at this as a chance to give the people more power and remove the “keep on developing “ at taxpayer’s expense influence we had in the county.

[CFrance]

Agree. It was making everything out of almost nothing at all. Talks about setting up an animal shelter or something like that.
It was making the existing animal shelter no-kill, which his wife had lobbied for for years, to the disgruntlement of the then commissioners.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sumter County is much more in line with conservative values. Being that Oren is really a Democrat(RINO) and Don Wiley is a true conservative, Don will prevail in the election later this year.

Will be an interesting election. Wonder if Wiley will accept donations for all of the developers cronies?

Apparently some forms of political discussion ARE allowable on TOTV.

Yup.

[Caymus]

It was making the existing animal shelter no-kill, which his wife had lobbied for for years, to the disgruntlement of the then commissioners.

What did they plan to do with all the animals that were not adopted?

[CFrance]

What did they plan to do with all the animals that were not adopted?
No kill generally applies to animals that can be retrained or swapped with other no kill shelters or are adoptable. Only terminally ill or extremely hazardous animals are occasionally euthanized by a no kill shelter. We have had many dogs at YOUR Humane Society of Sumter County, where I volunteer, come in as seemingly unadoptable, and many who have stayed with us for years, be adopted successfully. A few others we have sent to facilities who employ full-time trainers who have retrained them. We have some on-site programs to work with the dogs that Animal Services (understaffed) doesn't have the time or volunteers for. The only dog I remember being euthanized at YHSSC the last three years that I've been there had a brain tumor.
Off topic, sorry. You threw the steps to my bandwagon in front of me!

[Shipping up to Boston]

...and we're off! Campaign season upon us!

I know most are questioning if these are political references. Can you get a race any more intimate and related to topics that are discussed daily on this forum? As long as people keep it central to the position and the participants....why not? Two good candidates that enjoy an active ToTV base.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

...and we're off! Campaign season upon us!

I know most are questioning if these are political references. Can you get a race any more intimate and related to topics that are discussed daily on this forum? As long as people keep it central to the position and the participants....why not? Two good candidates that enjoy an active ToTV base.

Because someone brought up the party affiliation, and referred to one of them as a "RHINO." that's when you take a sharp turn off the issues and plant your butt firmly into the "political topics violation" category.

[dewilson58]

That’s why we got Search and Miller elected as commissioners, to lesson the typical taxpayer’s burdens.

Yes, and they delivered NOTHING.

No experience, No knowledge of Gov't.

Elected based on a promise which they never delivered on........and couldn't deliver on.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Yes, and they delivered NOTHING.

No experience, No knowledge of Gov't.

Elected based on a promise which they never delivered on........and couldn't deliver on.

But elected either way

I believe both or at least one held prior municipal office.

[tophcfa]

I moved down after Oren had been elected, and roughly around the time he was indicted. Wiley seems like a reasonable person. I have no "dog" in this fight (pardon the pun).

For me the real heartburn is that I thought Wiley actually won re-election. Am I wrong on this?

I know he was Selected to fill the rest of Oren's term, but I thought he won an election on his own to fill the next term. If he were removed during the Appointed term, I can see no foul in reinstating Oren. But, to remove a duly elected official, is beyond the pale for me.

If I am wrong, I stand corrected and will feel better.

If I am correct, I am upset that a governor would overturn the People's will. What remedy for one individual is so important to dismiss the will of many.

Since the next election is in August, why do this at all.

If the government screws up a prosecution of a government official, why make the people's will moot.

The whole thing is mind boggling. The Governor has now removed two county commissioners who were both duly elected by the people, neither of whom did anything to deserve it. Unfortunately for Don, he appears to be collateral damage from the Governors first screw up. It makes one wonder what kind of pressure was put on the Governor to make this latest move because he is certainly not the type to admit he was wrong?

[Shipping up to Boston]

Because someone brought up the party affiliation, and referred to one of them as a "RHINO." that's when you take a sharp turn off the issues and plant your butt firmly into the "political topics violation" category.

Don't disagree with you OBB. The RINO post by that poster is personal and they can deal with that on an individual level....not suppress everyone else that has something of substance to add to the topic. It can be mitigated. Can't be any worse than the 'Walmart' one that went bad pretty quick! ;)

[dewilson58]

The whole thing is mind boggling. The Governor has now removed two county commissioners who were both duly elected by the people, neither of whom did anything to deserve it. Unfortunately for Don, he appears to be collateral damage from the Governors first screw up. It makes one wonder what kind of pressure was put on the Governor to make this latest move because he is certainly not the type to admit he was wrong?

Did the Governor do wrong???..............didn't he remove a convicted felon??

(asking for a friend)

[Normal]

But elected either way

I believe both or at least one held prior municipal office.

Yes, replaced before they could deliver much needed impact fees placed on the developer. Wiley made sure those fees never saw the light of day.

[dewilson58]

But elected either way

I believe both or at least one held prior municipal office.

U R correct, I think Search was on a board of a small township up North.

Miller worked on tractors or something.

[Rainger99]

I don't know Miller or Wiley but I believe I read that the legal expenses almost bankrupted Miller. The State Commission on Ethics was also investigating him for an online fundraiser he created for the public to bankroll his lawyers. The Ethics Commission found that Miller violated Florida’s gift law by failing to timely report donations to his legal defense fund and then inaccurately accounted for the money. Miller ended up paying a civil penalty of $3,000.

As far as I can tell, commissioners get paid $74,042.

http://edr.state.fl.us/Content/local-government/reports/FY%202023-24%20Salaries%20and%20Certification%20Documentatio n.pdf

Not sure if I would want the job back.

Article from the Daily Sun on all of the races for Commissioner.

2024 Sumter County commission candidates at a glance | Sumter Politics | thevillagesdailysun.com (https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/sumter_politics/2024-sumter-county-commission-candidates-at-a-glance/article_af5ad7f8-fc06-11ee-b21a-7f1105c154d8.html)

[Bilyclub]

Non issue
Dons a dog lover and a breeder! ;)


What's that got to do with Miller's wife crusade to build a multi million dollar dog pound on our dime?

[dewilson58]

Yes, replaced before they could deliver much needed impact fees placed on the developer. Wiley made sure those fees never saw the light of day.

They had plenty of time...............they LEARNED all impact fees were all ready in place for TV undeveloped ground. They LEARNED after elected. Whoops.

Please expand on your Wiley comment...............what did he do?? :popcorn::popcorn:

[Normal]

U R correct, I think Search was on a board of a small township up North.

Miller worked on tractors or something.

No, Miller was a logistics manager.

[Shipping up to Boston]

The whole thing is mind boggling. The Governor has now removed two county commissioners who were both duly elected by the people, neither of whom did anything to deserve it. Unfortunately for Don, he appears to be collateral damage from the Governors first screw up. It makes one wonder what kind of pressure was put on the Governor to make this latest move because he is certainly not the type to admit he was wrong?

That answer is in the campaign finance reports. Pretty simple

[dewilson58]

No, he was a logistics manager.

Caterpillar.

:wave:

[Shipping up to Boston]

What's that got to do with Miller's wife crusade to build a multi million dollar dog pound on our dime?

Older story but even Don was prominently quoted in it....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/sumter_politics/sumter-county-s-animal-services-will-now-be-socially-conscious-sheltering/article_c765513c-24b9-11ed-84df-33f69b0da76c.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwivhvuc_5yGAxUyEFkFHUYYDrUQFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2NkB9qAlvTm-rS6skG6a3V

[Shipping up to Boston]

Caterpillar.

:wave:

If private sector experience is A disqualifier DW....guess we know how you'll be voting in November! Lol

[Bilyclub]

Older story but even Don was prominently quoted in it....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/sumter_politics/sumter-county-s-animal-services-will-now-be-socially-conscious-sheltering/article_c765513c-24b9-11ed-84df-33f69b0da76c.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwivhvuc_5yGAxUyEFkFHUYYDrUQFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2NkB9qAlvTm-rS6skG6a3V

Thanks

The commission previously rejected spending $4.7 million to design and build a new animal services facility, an initiative pushed by suspended commissioner Oren Miller and his wife, Angie Fox, who back no-kill shelters.

[Bill14564]

Did the Governor do wrong???..............didn't he remove a convicted felon??

(asking for a friend)

Not exactly. The Governor removed a commissioner accused of a felony as is his right. The commissioner was later convicted and later still exonerated.

[Bill14564]

They had plenty of time...............they LEARNED all impact fees were all ready in place for TV undeveloped ground. They LEARNED after elected. Whoops.

Please expand on your Wiley comment...............what did he do?? :popcorn::popcorn:

Fees already in place for undeveloped ground are simply the existing impact fees on the books for the county. The commissioners were effective in passing a large increase to those fees. However, completely out of their control, a bill was submitted and passed to the State Legislature that retroactively prohibited the increase that they had passed. And then things went downhill from there.

(Unfortunately, any comment I have on what they LEARNED after being elected is not allowed on this forum)

[Stu from NYC]

That answer is in the campaign finance reports. Pretty simple

Part of the reason the Developer gets what he wants is money talks

[Stu from NYC]

Fees already in place for undeveloped ground are simply the existing impact fees on the books for the county. The commissioners were effective in passing a large increase to those fees. However, completely out of their control, a bill was submitted and passed to the State Legislature that retroactively prohibited the increase that they had passed. And then things went downhill from there.

(Unfortunately, any comment I have on what they LEARNED after being elected is not allowed on this forum)

And the individual who submitted the bill just happened to be an employee of the developer.

[Happydaz]

////

[Normal]

Impact fees do a lot more than generate funds, they control development. Las Vegas uses them to keep new construction down in part because of water resources being over used and the shrinking aquifer.

[dewilson58]

Caused the state legislature to pass a retroactive cap on impact fee increases? Why did they feel the need to do that?

?????????????????

Wiley caused that???

No True.

[dewilson58]

The commissioners were effective in passing a large increase to those fees.
(Unfortunately, any comment I have on what they LEARNED after being elected is not allowed on this forum)

The promising boys came out and said they would reverse the property tax increase if elected.
The impact fee increase that you say was a "large increase" would not even put a dent in reversing the 25% increase in property taxes.....even if the so called large increase stayed in place.

They ran on a promise to reverse the 25% but had no idea how to do it.

What they LEARNED is they did not know how to reverse the 25% increase.

[Kenswing]

Not sure I’d vote for a candidate that changed parties for the simple fact that he knew if he kept his original party affiliation he would never stand a chance at winning an election in this county.

[dewilson58]

Not exactly. The Governor removed a commissioner accused of a felony as is his right.

Yes

[Bill14564]

Not sure I’d vote for a candidate that changed parties for the simple fact that he knew if he kept his original party affiliation he would never stand a chance at winning an election in this county.

Tough call: stand on principle and absolutely lose or exercise your rights and possibly win. I have far more criticism for the voters than the candidate in this particular situation.

[Normal]

Not exactly. The Governor removed a commissioner accused of a felony as is his right. The commissioner was later convicted and later still exonerated.

And reinstated Miller after discovering the removal was the governor’s error. Good for the governor to admit he was wrong.

[tophcfa]

Did the Governor do wrong???..............didn't he remove a convicted felon??

(asking for a friend)

He did absolutely nothing wrong if it’s not wrong to utilize his power to sick the states attorney generals office on someone to institute an unnecessary which hunt when one of his largest financial supporters tugged on his strings. If he could only put that kind of effort and taxpayers resources towards trying to find viable solutions to the states ever growing homeowners insurance problems? And if he did nothing wrong, Miller wouldn’t have gotten reinstated as commissioner. I feel sorry for both commissioners who have been needlessly put through this because of his actions.

[tophcfa]

And reinstated Miller after discovering the removal was the governor’s error. Good for the governor to admit he was wrong.

He never admitted he was wrong. He only reinstated Miller because he had to, and he most certainly didn’t enjoy having to do it.

[CFrance]

Apparently some forms of political discussion ARE allowable on TOTV.
I thought I read a couple of years ago that local politics, and I thought that meant local to TV, was allowed to be discussed. I'm not sure about state politics.

Has anyone else read that?

[Bogie Shooter]

The promising boys came out and said they would reverse the property tax increase if elected.
The impact fee increase that you say was a "large increase" would not even put a dent in reversing the 25% increase in property taxes.....even if the so called large increase stayed in place.

They ran on a promise to reverse the 25% but had no idea how to do it.

What they LEARNED is they did not know how to reverse the 25% increase.

Wondering if any part of “they” learned how county government works…….during their time out?

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

No matter which side of politics you’re on, you have to admit the Governor showed a lot of class by reversing himself.

Don Wiley also showed what he is made of by graciously stepping down. It will be an interesting election in more ways than one.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Don't disagree with you OBB. The RINO post by that poster is personal and they can deal with that on an individual level....not suppress everyone else that has something of substance to add to the topic. It can be mitigated. Can't be any worse than the 'Walmart' one that went bad pretty quick! ;)

Sounds like the "big issue" in this entire thread, is that Miller and his wife support a no-kill shelter.

That sounds like a really awesome opportunity for The Villages as a whole to support the end of the pet-breeding industry. When people stop insisting that their dog be a pure-bred, or a "designer-doodle/poo" perhaps the shelters will stop being full of unwanted animals. You want a dog? You have over 100 to choose from at the shelter, and they're spayed/neutered, microchipped, and have all their shots for under $200. No need to spend $1000+ for the flavor of the month.

The biggest up-side for the person adopting the dog, is they have a lower chance of the medical issues that come with unscrupulous back-yard breeders. Florida is LOADED with those.

Solve that problem, and you won't /need/ to argue about over-capacity no-kill shelters.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Is it true that the Gov explored the possibility of sending Oren to Martha’s Vineyard before aides told him he was bound by FL law to reinstate him?! *


*Sheldon

[BrianL99]

It depends on the viewpoint.

:MOJE_whot:

I found that out, the hard way.

[Sandy and Ed]

Sounds like the "big issue" in this entire thread, is that Miller and his wife support a no-kill shelter.

That sounds like a really awesome opportunity for The Villages as a whole to support the end of the pet-breeding industry. When people stop insisting that their dog be a pure-bred, or a "designer-doodle/poo" perhaps the shelters will stop being full of unwanted animals. You want a dog? You have over 100 to choose from at the shelter, and they're spayed/neutered, microchipped, and have all their shots for under $200. No need to spend $1000+ for the flavor of the month.

The biggest up-side for the person adopting the dog, is they have a lower chance of the medical issues that come with unscrupulous back-yard breeders. Florida is LOADED with those.

Solve that problem, and you won't /need/ to argue about over-capacity no-kill shelters.
Amen to that. Unfortunately, having searched for a pound pet here a couple of years ago, we could only find larger dogs and pit bulls. Many Village seniors prefer “lap” dogs and, for the most part, shy away from pit bulls (for some reason). Large dogs are ok if you have a good exercise yard but, if all you have is a courtyard villa or need to rely on walks for your animal’s exercise, is The Villages senior community the best place for it? We have had a Serbian Shepherd and Black Labs when we had room for them to run and Yorkie and Chihuahua when we didn’t. The right animal for the right environment is all. Now we have a Llasa. Not a matter of any “flavor of the month”. Just common sense.

[txfan]

This is good for all parties. One gets his job back, rightfully.

The other can devote even more time on soliciting for subscribers and advertisers to fund aerial videos he claims he can’t afford to make otherwise without funding, despite doing so freely for years.

Whomever is elected by the people, for the people, is representing the people, is who shall prevail.

[HoosierPa]

It’ll be a fun primary. Two good guys with experience at varying levels. Can’t go wrong either way IMO

Oh yes you can. Don is a true Conservative and Miller is not. By the way he and his cronies cost us a new Hospital in Sumter County

[G.R.I.T.S.]

I remember being new to the local election landscape here and engaging in a pleasant conversation with Mr. Miller at a local postal station. After a couple of brief exchanges, the hair on my neck noticeably stood up. Probably my country instincts reacting.

[HoosierPa]

Yes, and they delivered NOTHING.

No experience, No knowledge of Gov't.

Elected based on a promise which they never delivered on........and couldn't deliver on.

Correct. Miller delivered nothing.

The Villages Developer agreed to a 40% increase in impact fees and Miller/Search/Esteep didn’t think it was enough so instead of taking that as “a win”, they got nothing.
During their disastrous reign, they also managed to kill the planned “Wellness Village” from Sumter County.
Miller does not provide solid Conservative leadership this county desires and I hope he does not win re-election in August.

I’ll be supporting Don Wiley !

[Marathon Man]

I will not be voting for Miller. He and his wife fought, and lost, for a no-kill shelter. When the proposed tax increase was announced, Miller saw an opportunity. He changed party and pled to fight "The Developer" and roll back the tax hike. This got him and his friends elected. He went right to work on the shelter. So no, he is not "for the people".

[mkjelenbaas]

I, for one, will work hard in any way I can to make sure he retains the seat in August.
Some are saying he is a democrat in a republican suit!!

[Bilyclub]

Well that hospital/wellness project ain't getting built in Lake County, either. The main reason was they couldn't staff it if built.

[twoplanekid]

I am so happy that my wife let me run for the NSCUDD Village board several years ago even though she belongs to that dam other party.:icon_wink:

I didn't need to tell her what ticket I was running on. :laugh:

However, Don is a personal friend so ..

[Veracity]

Well that hospital/wellness project ain't getting built in Lake County, either. The main reason was they couldn't staff it if built.

The hospital project has not been cancelled. COVID had a major impact on health care staffing across the country, but that situation is slowly resolving.

[Bill14564]

Well that hospital/wellness project ain't getting built in Lake County, either. The main reason was they couldn't staff it if built.

The hospital project has not been cancelled. COVID had a major impact on health care staffing across the country, but that situation is slowly resolving.

Call it fees, call it staffing, call it COVID, call it whatever you like, if it ain't getting built then it ain't getting built.

The hospital is not above playing politics either. The threat of the impact fee *might* have moved their sights to Lake but it also could be the hospital threatened to move to Lake/Sumter as a means of convincing Sumter/Lake to make a better deal. If no ground has been broken then it's highly likely the dust hasn't settled on this yet.

[ehendersonjr]

Yes, the governor has reseated commissioner Miller to his seat at the county board! Oren won by a landslide last time, but was railroaded and tripped up by prosecutors looking for anything to stick. It took more than a year to have him acquitted of all charges. Welcome back commissioner!

https://www.**************.com/2024/05/19/gov-desantis-issues-executive-order-reinstating-oren-miller/

I first met Oren Miller a few years ago while he was campaigning at my mail station. At the time county commissioners were planning a 25% property tax increase after managing 14 years without an increase. Miller was adamant against the proposed increase and promised a better, less costly increase. (After Miller won, the increase was reduced to 21%)

I had done some research on the matter and told Miller that the only mistake the commissioners had made was waiting 14 years to increase taxes. Had they increased taxes each year by Sumter County's annual CPI increases, which ranged between 1.5 and 2.5 percent each year, few taxpayers would have noticed and the taxes for the year that Miller was castigating would have been approximately 35-40 percent higher, not 25 percent, as the amortization effects of tax increases would have kicked in after the 1st year. I offered to show Miller my work but he simply responded, "Those are just numbers. They don't mean anything."

I note that Miller tried running for state office previously as a Democrat and when he didn't win, simply changed his party affiliation to Republican.

Seems that Miller will say and do whatever he thinks will accomplish his goals. If, in doing so, you benefit, so be it. But if accomplishing Miller's goals cause you losses . . . well your losses are just numbers and they won't mean anything to Miller.

[airstreamingypsy]

I like Don Wiley and not sure who I will vote for but the Sun sure did a hatchet job on Oren this morning.

Of course they did, the developer wants his people on the commission.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I first met Oren Miller a few years ago while he was campaigning at my mail station. At the time county commissioners were planning a 25% property tax increase after managing 14 years without an increase. Miller was adamant against the proposed increase and promised a better, less costly increase. (After Miller won, the increase was reduced to 21%)

I had done some research on the matter and told Miller that the only mistake the commissioners had made was waiting 14 years to increase taxes. Had they increased taxes each year by Sumter County's annual CPI increases, which ranged between 1.5 and 2.5 percent each year, few taxpayers would have noticed and the taxes for the year that Miller was castigating would have been approximately 35-40 percent higher, not 25 percent, as the amortization effects of tax increases would have kicked in after the 1st year. I offered to show Miller my work but he simply responded, "Those are just numbers. They don't mean anything."

I note that Miller tried running for state office previously as a Democrat and when he didn't win, simply changed his party affiliation to Republican.

Seems that Miller will say and do whatever he thinks will accomplish his goals. If, in doing so, you benefit, so be it. But if accomplishing Miller's goals cause you losses . . . well your losses are just numbers and they won't mean anything to Miller.

Right
And with all of that said, you still have chronic complaints daily on this forum and hes not even in office to this point. I laugh at the party affiliation argument used here often. Dont forget the 3 judge panel of Appeals Court (Republican appointees) eviscerated the prosecutions case. Must be Dems in Republican suits as well, huh? If the argument is your wallet, vote for who you think will best serve your interests. But if you base your votes on who flexes their conservative values better than the other....i suggest you start peeling back layers. In the end they're all cut from the same cloth. I'm a big proponent of the developer but his hands are all over this case and this race...as it has been historically. That's his right and probably why he has been so successful. I just believe in the checks and balances of authority. Majority...or like minded majorities, is self service not public service.

[graciegirl]

Yes, replaced before they could deliver much needed impact fees placed on the developer. Wiley made sure those fees never saw the light of day.

I hadn't been paying as much attention to this forum as I used to. In a short time and with the help of this thread, I have figured out who I think are the good guys and the bad guys, or at least who are the ones I agree with most.

I do agree with DeWilson. He is a bit direct sometimes, but I can't think of many times I have disagreed with De Wilson. I really like everything I know about Don Wiley and I hope he wins the election this summer. I think he will because his views are those of the majority of the folks who live here. I love, love, love, animals, but we have to set priorities and not govern on whims and switch parties either. Nope. Don Wiley has my respect. And although we probably don't vote the same, I agree most of the time with my old pal, Bogie Shooter. Good Morning everyone. Go on and keep arguing.

[airstreamingypsy]

Not sure I’d vote for a candidate that changed parties for the simple fact that he knew if he kept his original party affiliation he would never stand a chance at winning an election in this county.

That's not why he changed parties, he could not run as a Republican because the Developer had already chosen a Republican candidate.

[Wondering]

Yes, the governor has reseated commissioner Miller to his seat at the county board! Oren won by a landslide last time, but was railroaded and tripped up by prosecutors looking for anything to stick. It took more than a year to have him acquitted of all charges. Welcome back commissioner!

https://www.**************.com/2024/05/19/gov-desantis-issues-executive-order-reinstating-oren-miller/
Our "esteemed" governor is "Eating Crow" these days! What does that say about the competence of the local DA, FBI and judge who was in charge of the trial. None of them knew the law. It took an appeals court to tell them. You can guess what their motive was in charging him. Pathetic!

[Stu from NYC]

Of course they did, the developer wants his people on the commission.

Silly me thinks that the article the Sun wrote should have been an editorial since it sure showed the paper and the developers opinion on Miller

[Bill14564]

I first met Oren Miller a few years ago while he was campaigning at my mail station. At the time county commissioners were planning a 25% property tax increase after managing 14 years without an increase. Miller was adamant against the proposed increase and promised a better, less costly increase. (After Miller won, the increase was reduced to 21%)

I had done some research on the matter and told Miller that the only mistake the commissioners had made was waiting 14 years to increase taxes. Had they increased taxes each year by Sumter County's annual CPI increases, which ranged between 1.5 and 2.5 percent each year, few taxpayers would have noticed and the taxes for the year that Miller was castigating would have been approximately 35-40 percent higher, not 25 percent, as the amortization effects of tax increases would have kicked in after the 1st year. I offered to show Miller my work but he simply responded, "Those are just numbers. They don't mean anything."

I note that Miller tried running for state office previously as a Democrat and when he didn't win, simply changed his party affiliation to Republican.

Seems that Miller will say and do whatever he thinks will accomplish his goals. If, in doing so, you benefit, so be it. But if accomplishing Miller's goals cause you losses . . . well your losses are just numbers and they won't mean anything to Miller.

Your timeline is off by a bit:
- The 25+% increase was put in place in the fiscal year beginning October 2019.
- The 2020 election year budget held the rate to the rollback rate (which was advertised as a rate cut even though the state does not define it that way)
- The first year Miller had any say over the budget, 2021, the rate was decreased below the rollback rate (which looked like a 5% decrease but was by definition a 1.5% decrease)
- The rate also decreased the next year though Search and Miller may have been out of office before that budget was assembled

The discussion at the time of the 25% increase was not that this was a long delayed catch-up to inflation. The discussion at that time was that the 25% was needed to purchase the roads below 44 per an agreement with the developer.

This is what started the talk about increasing the road impact fee: why should the county pay to build new roads that are only required because of a new development? If the road impact fee was more reasonable then the impact fee would pay for the impact to the road infrastructure caused by the development - pretty much the definition of what an impact fee is for. The mere fact the impact fees collected were insufficient to pay for the required road updates shows that the impact fee needed to be increased. The attempt to do that and its outcome is now history.

[maistocars]

Don Wiley, a true Conservative, has my vote!

[TheWarriors]

Our "esteemed" governor is "Eating Crow" these days! What does that say about the competence of the local DA, FBI and judge who was in charge of the trial. None of them knew the law. It took an appeals court to tell them. You can guess what their motive was in charging him. Pathetic!

Careful, your political views are fully displayed.

[LeRoySmith]

Careful, your political views are fully displayed.

I made a post on this tread that wasn't what I'd call political at all and its gone.....gulp

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I hadn't been paying as much attention to this forum as I used to. In a short time and with the help of this thread, I have figured out who I think are the good guys and the bad guys, or at least who are the ones I agree with most.

I do agree with DeWilson. He is a bit direct sometimes, but I can't think of many times I have disagreed with De Wilson. I really like everything I know about Don Wiley and I hope he wins the election this summer. I think he will because his views are those of the majority of the folks who live here. I love, love, love, animals, but we have to set priorities and not govern on whims and switch parties either. Nope. Don Wiley has my respect. And although we probably don't vote the same, I agree most of the time with my old pal, Bogie Shooter. Good Morning everyone. Go on and keep arguing. it’s not the same on here Gracie as it was a few years ago, people have become so sensitive on here ,that any mild statements about some one and you’ll get a dozen oh my why are you bullying that person or they block out so many people that annoy them that there’s no one left , the site seems more like a home improvement site somedays then a forum

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Amen to that. Unfortunately, having searched for a pound pet here a couple of years ago, we could only find larger dogs and pit bulls. Many Village seniors prefer “lap” dogs and, for the most part, shy away from pit bulls (for some reason). Large dogs are ok if you have a good exercise yard but, if all you have is a courtyard villa or need to rely on walks for your animal’s exercise, is The Villages senior community the best place for it? We have had a Serbian Shepherd and Black Labs when we had room for them to run and Yorkie and Chihuahua when we didn’t. The right animal for the right environment is all. Now we have a Llasa. Not a matter of any “flavor of the month”. Just common sense.

You didn't search very hard then. I just went to Petfinder, plugged in 32159 (my zip code here in Lady Lake), filtered for "small" dogs at a distance no further than 25 miles from home, and got this:

Dogs for Adoption Near Ocala, FL | Petfinder (https://www.petfinder.com/search/dogs-for-adoption/us/fl/ocala/?distance=25&size%5B0%5D=Small)

However - they do post some options incorrectly so there are a couple of german shepards and a lot of pit mixes. Their filtering system is definitely flawed - they consider the current weight of the dog rather than the expected weight when it's an adult. A young pit bull puppy will weigh less than 25 pounds. If you look past all of those, you'll find the rest are mostly terrier mixes and chihuahuas. So yes - very small dogs, in desperate need of rehoming.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I hadn't been paying as much attention to this forum as I used to. In a short time and with the help of this thread, I have figured out who I think are the good guys and the bad guys, or at least who are the ones I agree with most.

I do agree with DeWilson. He is a bit direct sometimes, but I can't think of many times I have disagreed with De Wilson. I really like everything I know about Don Wiley and I hope he wins the election this summer. I think he will because his views are those of the majority of the folks who live here. I love, love, love, animals, but we have to set priorities and not govern on whims and switch parties either. Nope. Don Wiley has my respect. And although we probably don't vote the same, I agree most of the time with my old pal, Bogie Shooter. Good Morning everyone. Go on and keep arguing.

Must be a generational thing that you can 'figure out the good guys and the bad guys' based on a forums posts. Expect heavy solicitation for your vote from the usual suspects!

Btw...i dont know you but you seem like a nice person...regardless if we agree or not on the issues of the day

[jimbomaybe]

[QUOTE=Shipping up to Boston;2332856]No disrespect to Mr Wiley, who appears to be a good and decent man ....but this whole saga was unnecessary.[/QUOTE

Very necessary when money is involved

[Shipping up to Boston]

[QUOTE=Shipping up to Boston;2332856]No disrespect to Mr Wiley, who appears to be a good and decent man ....but this whole saga was unnecessary.[/QUOTE

Very necessary when money is involved

Can you explain?

[Stu from NYC]

[QUOTE=jimbomaybe;2333290]

Can you explain?

It is a case where the developer flexed his political power in Florida in ways that many did not appreciate.

[Normal]

[QUOTE=Shipping up to Boston;2333299]

It is a case where the developer flexed his political power in Florida in ways that many did not appreciate.

MANY!

We voted for change, the developer and his paid for interests in Tallahassee inserted who they wanted instead.

[virtualcynthia]

I am beyond Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal. I just want a good person who cares about people and has experience. He won by a landslide so I think a lot of people feel that he is that person?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am beyond Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal. I just want a good person who cares about people and has experience. He won by a landslide so I think a lot of people feel that he is that person?

I think "a lot of people" is not a valid metric when determining whether or not someone has won the acclaim of a group.

A lot of people didn't know who else to vote for, so they voted for him.
A lot of people didn't vote at all.
A lot of people voted for him only because they hated the other guy.
A lot of people voted for him because they were friends with him so of course that was where their loyalty would go, whether he had a platform they agreed with or not.
A lot of people voted for him because they thought he could do a good job.
A lot of people voted for him because their neighbors told them that he could do a good job, and they didn't care enough to find out for themselves.

And as a result, he won.

[tophcfa]

Regardless of how one feels about Oren Miller, it’s undeniable the dude has a big set of stones. After being dredged through hell and back on an unsuccessful witch hunt that landed him in jail for what turned out to be no good reason, and having his name slandered repeatedly in the Daily Fun, he’s jumping back into the fire. Most people, especially his age, would craw under a rock and quietly live out their remaining years after what he’s been through. Hopefully the man behind the curtain, with seemingly unlimited financial resources and network of connections, will leave him alone this time and let him serve out his duly elected county commissioner position.

[golfing eagles]

I think "a lot of people" is not a valid metric when determining whether or not someone has won the acclaim of a group.

A lot of people didn't know who else to vote for, so they voted for him.
A lot of people didn't vote at all.
A lot of people voted for him only because they hated the other guy.
A lot of people voted for him because they were friends with him so of course that was where their loyalty would go, whether he had a platform they agreed with or not.
A lot of people voted for him because they thought he could do a good job.
A lot of people voted for him because their neighbors told them that he could do a good job, and they didn't care enough to find out for themselves.

And as a result, he won.

But you left out the biggest: A lot of people voted for him because he promised to roll back a 25% tax increase. Of course, they didn't ask HIM how he was going to pay for things.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Regardless of how one feels about Oren Miller, it’s undeniable the dude has a big set of stones. After being dredged through hell and back on an unsuccessful witch hunt that landed him in jail for what turned out to be no good reason, and having his name slandered repeatedly in the Daily Fun, he’s jumping back into the fire. Most people, especially his age, would craw under a rock and quietly live out their remaining years after what he’s been through. Hopefully the man behind the curtain, with seemingly unlimited financial resources and network of connections, will leave him alone this time and let him serve out his duly elected county commissioner position.

Well said!

[JMintzer]

Our "esteemed" governor is "Eating Crow" these days! What does that say about the competence of the local DA, FBI and judge who was in charge of the trial. None of them knew the law. It took an appeals court to tell them. You can guess what their motive was in charging him. Pathetic!

Good thing that isn't happening in any "highly populated" northern cities...

[dewilson58]

But you left out the biggest: A lot of people voted for him because he promised to roll back a 25% tax increase. Of course, they didn't ask HIM how he was going to pay for things.

BINGO!!!!!

I can't remember exactly (there are old threads out there) but the impact fees would have to go to (like) $20,000 per house to reverse the 25% property tax increase.

Details, Details, Details.

But voters voted with emotions, not logic.

[Shipping up to Boston]

BINGO!!!!!

I can't remember exactly (there are old threads out there) but the impact fees would have to go to (like) $20,000 per house to reverse the 25% property tax increase.

Details, Details, Details.

But voters voted with emotions, not logic.

Your last sentence describes most elections.

[Shipping up to Boston]

BINGO!!!!!

I can't remember exactly (there are old threads out there) but the impact fees would have to go to (like) $20,000 per house to reverse the 25% property tax increase.

Details, Details, Details.

But voters voted with emotions, not logic.

Our Curmudgeon Coalition will be interviewing both candidates between now and the August primary. It’s a coveted endorsement in TV.

[Normal]

BINGO!!!!!

I can't remember exactly (there are old threads out there) but the impact fees would have to go to (like) $20,000 per house to reverse the 25% property tax increase.

Details, Details, Details.

But voters voted with emotions, not logic.

Those fees are certainly not unheard of in Florida. Orlando is averaging, a little over 26,000 per home, while some rural areas are only 6-8 thousand. Osceola is running anywhere between 11,000 up to 31,000 per home.

There are no huge sacrifices by our developer for impact fees, in fact he cleans up. He recently collected 50 million in payment from our county commissioners for Southern Oaks. Keep in mind, a bond was also charged by the developer for every new home they sold. There is a reason they are rolling in cash.

Orange County to home builders: No more discounts on road impacts fees – Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2021/08/24/orange-county-to-home-builders-no-more-discounts-on-road-impacts-fees/)

Affordable housing developers in Osceola can pay impact fees later, commission says – Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2022/12/20/affordable-housing-developers-in-osceola-can-pay-impact-fees-later-commission-says/)

[Shipping up to Boston]

Those fees are certainly not unheard of in Florida. Orlando is averaging, a little over 26,000 per home, while some rural areas are only 6-8 thousand. Osceola is running anywhere between 11,000 up to 31,000 per home.

There are no huge sacrifices by our developer for impact fees, in fact he cleans up. He recently collected 50 million in payment from our county commissioners for Southern Oaks. Keep in mind, a bond was also charged by the developer for every new home they sold. There is a reason they are rolling in cash.

Orange County to home builders: No more discounts on road impacts fees – Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2021/08/24/orange-county-to-home-builders-no-more-discounts-on-road-impacts-fees/)

Affordable housing developers in Osceola can pay impact fees later, commission says – Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2022/12/20/affordable-housing-developers-in-osceola-can-pay-impact-fees-later-commission-says/)

Normal.....you know the analytical nerds are gonna fact check you til the street lights come on.

Btw....you got game. The news cycle blessed you to allow the pivot from the fire thread topic to Orens reinstatement thread. Well played sir! :BigApplause:

[Normal]

In addition here is the link for the County plans to reimburse the developer for the Southern Oaks portion of the Villages for roads.

https://www.**************.com/2021/02/20/sumter-county-to-pay-50-million-for-regional-roads-in-southern-oaks/

[Stu from NYC]

In addition here is the link for the County plans to reimburse the developer for the Southern Oaks portion of the Villages for roads.

https://www.**************.com/2021/02/20/sumter-county-to-pay-50-million-for-regional-roads-in-southern-oaks/

Money talks everybody walks as the old saying goes

[Bill14564]

BINGO!!!!!

I can't remember exactly (there are old threads out there) but the impact fees would have to go to (like) $20,000 per house to reverse the 25% property tax increase.

Details, Details, Details.

But voters voted with emotions, not logic.

The FY19-20 budget lists $60M of payments to the Developer for road construction. If these roads will support 20,000 new homes then the impact fee to recover those costs would be $3,000 per home. This is very close to the $2,430 impact fee proposed in the 2019 study and 2021 ordinance.

On the other hand, the 33% increase has been used for more than the purchase of roads. The first year of the increase brought in an additional $25M. By 2020, the second year, the increase had brought in over $50M. If the increase was only used for the road purchase then it could have been rolled back at that time. It wasn't rolled back, it was simply used for something else.

This is why my expectation is we won't see the millage decrease by 1.3mills in October - once a tax is in place it is hard to remove. it will be decreased some, perhaps by as much as 0.6mills so the incumbents can take credit for a 12% reduction, but not by the full 1.3mills. But we'll see in June/July when the preliminary budget comes out.

[blueash]

No matter which side of politics you’re on, you have to admit the Governor showed a lot of class by reversing himself.

Don Wiley also showed what he is made of by graciously stepping down. It will be an interesting election in more ways than one.

The Florida constitution allows but does not require the Governor to remove an indicted commissioner. DeSantis acted immediately to remove Miller when he was indicted. The same constitution REQUIRES him to reinstate the commissioner if he is cleared of the charges. DeSantis did not do that required action for over 6 months. He only did so under threat of litigation AFAIK. He could have and should have reinstated Miller as soon as the court voided his conviction.

DeSantis did not reverse himself. He was forced to do it by the Florida Constitution and he held off as long as he could.

[Shipping up to Boston]

The Florida constitution allows but does not require the Governor to remove an indicted commissioner. DeSantis acted immediately to remove Miller when he was indicted. The same constitution REQUIRES him to reinstate the commissioner if he is cleared of the charges. DeSantis did not do that required action for over 6 months. He only did so under threat of litigation AFAIK. He could have and should have reinstated Miller as soon as the court voided his conviction.

DeSantis did not reverse himself. He was forced to do it by the Florida Constitution and he held off as long as he could.

Would love to FOIA request the Gov phone/email records from the date Miller was cleared....to the day he reinstated him. Wonder how many exchanges originated from Florida’s Friendliest Hometown!

[blueash]

I ..

For me the real heartburn is that I thought Wiley actually won re-election. Am I wrong on this?

I know he was Selected to fill the rest of Oren's term, but I thought he won an election on his own to fill the next term. If he were removed during the Appointed term, I can see no foul in reinstating Oren. But, to remove a duly elected official, is beyond the pale for me.



I may have missed whether this concern has been addressed. Miller was elected to a four year term ending at the end of this year. He was removed during that four year period which is still in place and Wiley was appointed then elected to fill his unexpired term. He never ran for his own four year term. Thus he replaced Miller, selected by DeSantis to do so and is now running for the first time for a four year seat.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I may have missed whether this concern has been addressed. Miller was elected to a four year term ending at the end of this year. He was removed during that four year period which is still in place and Wiley was appointed then elected to fill his unexpired term. He never ran for his own four year term. Thus he replaced Miller, selected by DeSantis to do so and is now running for the first time for a four year seat.

Perfect chronology

[Stu from NYC]

The Florida constitution allows but does not require the Governor to remove an indicted commissioner. DeSantis acted immediately to remove Miller when he was indicted. The same constitution REQUIRES him to reinstate the commissioner if he is cleared of the charges. DeSantis did not do that required action for over 6 months. He only did so under threat of litigation AFAIK. He could have and should have reinstated Miller as soon as the court voided his conviction.

DeSantis did not reverse himself. He was forced to do it by the Florida Constitution and he held off as long as he could.

Thanks for sharing. Bet we do not see that tidbit in the Sun

[dewilson58]

The FY19-20 budget .................................................. .. ..........................................

This all great historical info, but I was told by county employees (back in 2018 or 2019), The Villages' new farm land was already platted and old impact fees were "already attached" no matter what increase was approved.

Any new impact fee schedule would have impacted them "ten years" down the road if they purchased more land.

That's one of many reasons I laughed at the promise to reverse the 25% increase.

:coolsmiley:

[golfing eagles]

The Florida constitution allows but does not require the Governor to remove an indicted commissioner. DeSantis acted immediately to remove Miller when he was indicted. The same constitution REQUIRES him to reinstate the commissioner if he is cleared of the charges. DeSantis did not do that required action for over 6 months. He only did so under threat of litigation AFAIK. He could have and should have reinstated Miller as soon as the court voided his conviction.

DeSantis did not reverse himself. He was forced to do it by the Florida Constitution and he held off as long as he could.

Good. Wish he didn't have to do it.

Regardless of the charges, Miller is a LIAR. He was a lifelong member of one party who switched in order to get elected. To me, this means he wanted to force his policies and philosophies down the throats of a community that would never have elected him to do so. And even then he only got elected on the basis of a campaign to "roll back the 25% tax increase and screw 'the developer'", neither of which would ever happen. Just proves how ignorant the electorate can be as soon as a politician dangles $$$$ in front of them.

[Bill14564]

This all great historical info, but I was told by county employees (back in 2018 or 2019), The Villages' new farm land was already platted and old impact fees were "already attached" no matter what increase was approved.

Any new impact fee schedule would have impacted them "ten years" down the road if they purchased more land.

That's one of many reasons I laughed at the promise to reverse the 25% increase.

:coolsmiley:

Might be so. But it makes me wonder.... if an increase in the impact fee would have made no difference to the developer then why did he pack the meeting rooms to resist it, have so many articles written against it, and arrange for the State Legislature to block it? He could have simply sat back while the tiny, little commissioners played their games then laughed when it had no effect.

[Laker]

Sorry, but as his record shows, he and his 2 cronies were Democrats who couldn't elected with their left-wing politics, so switched to Republican since they knew most people wouldn't know their history. I don't trust this guy for a minute.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Might be so. But it makes me wonder.... if an increase in the impact fee would have made no difference to the developer then why did he pack the meeting rooms to resist it, have so many articles written against it, and arrange for the State Legislature to block it? He could have simply sat back while the tiny, little commissioners played their games then laughed when it had no effect.

Fair point
IMO....you had an elected slate of ‘anti’ developer(ment). If you were the founder and CEO of any company and had a majority of your board controlling the direction of said business....when you’re used to rubber stamps and allies among you....the actions (while I disagree with them)....were a ‘justifiable’ response in his eyes. I think if the developer had his druthers....in hindsight, he would have done things dramatically different.

[Bill14564]

Sorry, but as his record shows, he and his 2 cronies were Democrats who couldn't elected with their left-wing politics, so switched to Republican since they knew most people wouldn't know their history. I don't trust this guy for a minute.

Again, to me this says more about the voters than the candidates.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Good. Wish he didn't have to do it.

Regardless of the charges, Miller is a LIAR. He was a lifelong member of one party who switched in order to get elected. To me, this means he wanted to force his policies and philosophies down the throats of a community that would never have elected him to do so. And even then he only got elected on the basis of a campaign to "roll back the 25% tax increase and screw 'the developer'", neither of which would ever happen. Just proves how ignorant the electorate can be as soon as a politician dangles $$$$ in front of them.

Your last sentence describes most elections GE.

Most of these posters either sleep through an election, don’t vote at all or simply do what their respective spouse/partner tells them to do. Politicians know their electorate, purged voter lists are a matter of public record . They put their resources towards the informed and don’t waste a dime or energy on the fellowship of the miserable. The ‘EMS’ slate did their homework, identified their supporters and brought them home (ballot box). As your grandkids or Stalin would say....don’t hate the player, hate the game!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Good. Wish he didn't have to do it.

Regardless of the charges, Miller is a LIAR. He was a lifelong member of one party who switched in order to get elected. To me, this means he wanted to force his policies and philosophies down the throats of a community that would never have elected him to do so. And even then he only got elected on the basis of a campaign to "roll back the 25% tax increase and screw 'the developer'", neither of which would ever happen. Just proves how ignorant the electorate can be as soon as a politician dangles $$$$ in front of them.

Lots of politicians switch parties in order to get elected. The guy who became president in 2016 is one, he was a repeat switch-hitter. Started unaffiliated, then went to Republican from 1987-1999. He declared as Reform in 1999. In 2001 he switched to Democratic for 8 years. Then he went back to Republican for two years, switched to Independent for a year in 2011,then back to Republican.

If "switched parties in order to get elected" was a criteria for NOT voting for someone - well that guy wouldn't have been president at all.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Might be so. But it makes me wonder.... if an increase in the impact fee would have made no difference to the developer then why did he pack the meeting rooms to resist it, have so many articles written against it, and arrange for the State Legislature to block it? He could have simply sat back while the tiny, little commissioners played their games then laughed when it had no effect.

It's called lip service, politics, and power. People in power do what they do, because they can do it. And to make sure everyone knows that. That's how they become powerful, and it's how they stay that way. The media, the state legislature, the commissioners, they're all just pawns. The Developer owns the chessboard.

[Stu from NYC]

Fair point
IMO....you had an elected slate of ‘anti’ developer(ment). If you were the founder and CEO of any company and had a majority of your board controlling the direction of said business....when you’re used to rubber stamps and allies among you....the actions (while I disagree with them)....were a ‘justifiable’ response in his eyes. I think if the developer had his druthers....in hindsight, he would have done things dramatically different.

Guess he knew this was going to happen and to prevent questions about this in his recent talk to his villagers, he decided he had a conflict and stayed away.

[golfing eagles]

Lots of politicians switch parties in order to get elected. The guy who became president in 2016 is one, he was a repeat switch-hitter. Started unaffiliated, then went to Republican from 1987-1999. He declared as Reform in 1999. In 2001 he switched to Democratic for 8 years. Then he went back to Republican for two years, switched to Independent for a year in 2011,then back to Republican.

If "switched parties in order to get elected" was a criteria for NOT voting for someone - well that guy wouldn't have been president at all.

I don't necessarily disagree. If someone's philosophy "evolves", one way or the other, and they are committed to it, fine. But to do so simply to deceive the electorate is a different story.

[Normal]

I don't necessarily disagree. If someone's philosophy "evolves", one way or the other, and they are committed to it, fine. But to do so simply to deceive the electorate is a different story.

Exactly, I can think of one recent Florida governor and a quote from president #44 saying he “evolved”.

[Stu from NYC]

Exactly, I can think of one recent Florida governor and a quote from president #44 saying he “evolved”.

Lots of us evolve as we get older and change our way of thinking.

Many years ago as a college student I was very liberal in my thinking, as I grew older and learned more about the workings of the world I evolved to the other side

[LeRoySmith]

Lots of us evolve as we get older and change our way of thinking.

Many years ago as a college student I was very liberal in my thinking, as I grew older and learned more about the workings of the world I evolved to the other side

I just read an article about this, as we age (gain wisdom) we become more conservative. A few start out as liberal and stay that way but they are the minority. I'm not sure I agree with some of what they found but it's an interesting read.

There Are Two Americas, and Age Is the Divider | Chicago Booth Review (https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/there-are-two-americas-and-age-divider)

[Normal]

Lots of us evolve as we get older and change our way of thinking.

Many years ago as a college student I was very liberal in my thinking, as I grew older and learned more about the workings of the world I evolved to the other side

If you don’t evolve, you are likely dead. Not being open to inputs and ideas makes the so called tolerant very intolerant of others. It is also a clear sign of the uneducated in society who can only talk, but never listen. The real shameful position in society are those who don’t evolve and just cement to their stick in the mud.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I don't necessarily disagree. If someone's philosophy "evolves", one way or the other, and they are committed to it, fine. But to do so simply to deceive the electorate is a different story.

GE....c’mon man. Again, if one chooses to believe in a candidates rhetoric.....without peeling back the layers and initiating some due diligence.....that’s on them. I wish you’d start humanizing politicians and instead demonize the electorate!

* btw...I still love you! Lol

[golfing eagles]

GE....c’mon man. Again, if one chooses to believe in a candidates rhetoric.....without peeling back the layers and initiating some due diligence.....that’s on them. I wish you’d start humanizing politicians and instead demonize the electorate!

* btw...I still love you! Lol

I'm not so sure I would relieve the electorate of responsibility. Look at yesterday's vote to replace a certain Orlando city councilperson. My reaction was that the position should have been filled by appointment---Orange County or Orlando City mayor. My reasoning is that an electorate stupid enough to elect that person in the first place is too stupid to choose a replacement:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Shipping up to Boston]

I'm not so sure I would relieve the electorate of responsibility. Look at yesterday's vote to replace a certain Orlando city councilperson. My reaction was that the position should have been filled by appointment---Orange County or Orlando City mayor. My reasoning is that an electorate stupid enough to elect that person in the first place is too stupid to choose a replacement:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

You’re making my point kind sir!

[Stu from NYC]

I'm not so sure I would relieve the electorate of responsibility. Look at yesterday's vote to replace a certain Orlando city councilperson. My reaction was that the position should have been filled by appointment---Orange County or Orlando City mayor. My reasoning is that an electorate stupid enough to elect that person in the first place is too stupid to choose a replacement:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

As a famous man has said, some people are just low information voters.

[LeRoySmith]

electorate stupid enough to elect that person in the first place is too stupid

I see Fulton County is having it's primaries

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I'm not so sure I would relieve the electorate of responsibility. Look at yesterday's vote to replace a certain Orlando city councilperson. My reaction was that the position should have been filled by appointment---Orange County or Orlando City mayor. My reasoning is that an electorate stupid enough to elect that person in the first place is too stupid to choose a replacement:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: until the charges brought against her ,Regina Hill had done a lot of good not only in her district but for others in Orlando. the community has a right to pick there own candidates to represent them I can think of quite a few stupid people here ,who have done the same thing and will probably do it again and that is your right .