Longevity of modern construction?

[MplsPete]

In another thread (Are you happy you made TV your retirement home?) I saw a couple of comments that disturbed me, and raised an issue only tangentially related to that thread:

OBB wrote
I hate that people think a 20-year-old home is "old." I hate the mentality behind that. Again - where I come from - an "old" home was built prior to 1925, and there are thousands of them in the New England area that function just fine, are well-insulated, have withstood dozens of nor'easters, and are beautiful.

And JLB replied
As far as 20-year-old houses being "old", I hear you. But given that nobody builds great houses like they did 100 years ago (at least, for those that could afford it), even expensive houses of today age far more quickly than they should. We are in a throw-away world, sadly.

So let's talk about this. I live in a home built in 1950. Is construction of the 1990s or 2000s fundamentally inferior? What's this stuff about homes aging far more quickly?
Are preowned homes older than a few years bad? Can someone cite examples?
(Thanks to all who reply.)

[village dreamer]

In another thread (Are you happy you made TV your retirement home?) I saw a couple of comments that disturbed me, and raised an issue only tangentially related to that thread:

OBB wrote
I hate that people think a 20-year-old home is "old." I hate the mentality behind that. Again - where I come from - an "old" home was built prior to 1925, and there are thousands of them in the New England area that function just fine, are well-insulated, have withstood dozens of nor'easters, and are beautiful.

And JLB replied
As far as 20-year-old houses being "old", I hear you. But given that nobody builds great houses like they did 100 years ago (at least, for those that could afford it), even expensive houses of today age far more quickly than they should. We are in a throw-away world, sadly.

So let's talk about this. I live in a home built in 1950. Is construction of the 1990s or 2000s fundamentally inferior? What's this stuff about homes aging far more quickly?
Are preowned homes older than a few years bad? Can someone cite examples?
(Thanks to all who reply.) roofs are only good for 15 years , per your home insurance. and only 1 layer. homes are not aging faster, the quality is lacking. you put cheap stuff in and it wont last. 1950 to 2024 big difference.

[MightyDog]

Longevity of modern construction?

Let's start with this reality, which I think a lot of people don't consider or realize. A developer is producing a product to SELL. Period. Same as a manufacturer of jeans, cookies, tires, etc.

A relevant difference is that the maker of the last 3 products mentioned would really prefer you to be a lifelong customer so, they likely won't cut corners too sharply. A housing developer (not speaking about TV with this comment b/c it's a bit different than general housing) will very possibly only make one sale to an individual/couple, ever. So, their motivation for great quality is not as high. Especially if their buyer demographic is economically moderate or lower - they don't expect superior quality.

So, the bottom line is: the developers primary concern is SELLING the product, secondary concern is having it be good enough to withstand the warranty period without costing too much along with it not being so junky that negative reviews get around the community and make it tougher to sell new developments.

All of that lines-up with using the most inexpensive products that will still have a reasonable lifespan and getting the houses built as fast as possible (time is money) but, that sometimes means the build-quality is not the best because of haste or using lesser experienced subcontractors.

When I lived in Western NC, I had a 1963, 4-sides brick, raised ranch. The drive-under garage along with the large, daylight basement area was unfinished. When I had a contractor and framers there to do some finishing they marveled at how well-built the house was because they could see the raw undersides, foundation, etc. One of them said, "This era was when tradesmen still had pride of workmanship." I asked him, "What era doesn't evidence that?" He whipped his head around and replied, "New builds." Then he ranted for a minute about a fairly fancy newer development in town. He said, "the designs and details all look nice but, materials and workmanship are junk."

[Toymeister]

There were updates to the Florida building code in the mid nineties as a reaction to hurricane damage. This includedstronger garage door reinforcements. HVAC efficiency standards as well as water heater standards have changed as well.

[Michael G.]

What you say about older homes built better your probably right.
To build those homes today like those in the 1920's, 30's, 40's, and 50's would cost thousands more just
to have access to the quality of wood etc..

Also new homes today, 80% of the building comes out of a warehouse where the contractor
stock piles the junk, windows, faucets, doors, cabinets, and bought at a discount by the truck load which limits
our choices of styles and colors.

Then again at our age, even new builds today will be standing long after we leave this earth at 5X the price. :shrug:

[JRcorvette]

The Villages needs to allow Metal and Tile roofs! Asphalt shingle roofs are a wast of money and they are charging 3x what they should to do the replacement.

[Michael G.]

The Villages needs to allow Metal and Tile roofs! Asphalt shingle roofs are a wast of money and they are charging 3x what they should to do the replacement.

I always wondered how metal roofs stand up in a hail storm?

Also, I doubt most people wouldn't invest $50,000 in a metal roof.
Even if they did, imagine their insurance premiums. :22yikes:

[mrf0151]

The Villages needs to allow Metal and Tile roofs! Asphalt shingle roofs are a wast of money and they are charging 3x what they should to do the replacement.

With tile they would have to build a stronger roof. I would imagine you can do metal roofs here. Brother has this up north and it looks much like regular asphalt shingles.
Pricey but very durable:
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=adc5f2bc6ecbc3c8JmltdHM9MTcxNjg1NDQwMCZpZ3VpZD0x MjI2MjNlYy02YjEzLTY3OWEtMzE2NS0zNzY0NmEwMTY2NDYmaW 5zaWQ9NTI2OQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=122623ec-6b13-679a-3165-37646a016646&psq=metal+shingles+with+asphalt+coating&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubWNlbHJveW1ldGFsLmNvbS9zcGVjaW FsdHktcm9vZmluZy1wYW5lbHMvc3RvbmUtY29hdGVkLXN0ZWVs LXNoaW5nbGU&ntb=1

[Blueblaze]

There are a lot of things about these houses that are pretty poor quality, starting with the cheap plastic plumbing sticking out of the wall at every plumbing fixture. But this house is still the strongest house I've ever lived in. It's much better built than my 1990 brick ranch house in Houston that survived two Cat-5 hurricanes without a scratch. With wind-rated double-pane windows, steel studs, and concrete block walls, this house seems likely to survive at least a century longer than I need it, hurricane or not. It's certainly built better than the home where I started out -- a two-bedroom 1910 Craftsman, with knob-and-tube wiring, asbestos siding, cast iron plumbing, coal-fired floor furnace, and no air conditioning, in tornado-alley Wichita. And yet I can go on Google Maps and see that house standing to this day. It's outlived the giant elm trees that used to line that street when I was a kid, by at least 50 years.

[badkarma318]

The Villages needs to allow Metal and Tile roofs!

Both roof types already exist within The Villages.

[MandoMan]

There were updates to the Florida building code in the mid nineties as a reaction to hurricane damage. This includedstronger garage door reinforcements. HVAC efficiency standards as well as water heater standards have changed as well.

True. And all of the homes in The Villages apart from the Historical District are under that code. I’m not a builder, but I read Fine Homebuilding and The Journal of Light Construction cover to cover for a quarter century and designed and built my own home and restored a couple others (one a two hundred year old log cabin). Every home requires upkeep, including roofing, paint, HVAC, etc. My sense, based on seeing construction methods here and seeing a lot of homes, is that homes in The Villages are very well built, and if maintained, they should last a century. Perhaps “they don’t build them like they used to,” but building methods have changed. Steel studs, roof trusses, much better windows than were used in the sixties in Florida, more insulation, safer. You don’t need to worry about the quality of construction here, and don’t listen to the people on here who don’t really know much about building methods. Yes, the fixtures are contractor grade, which isn’t the best, but they work. Yes, I wish there were even more insulation, but I’ve seen worse. The Villages looks beautiful, and under that beauty is good bones.

[Dlbonivich]

I believe the house is fine, the decorating and cosmetics are old. The homes here are aging fine as far as construction.

[jrref]

True. And all of the homes in The Villages apart from the Historical District are under that code. I’m not a builder, but I read Fine Homebuilding and The Journal of Light Construction cover to cover for a quarter century and designed and built my own home and restored a couple others (one a two hundred year old log cabin). Every home requires upkeep, including roofing, paint, HVAC, etc. My sense, based on seeing construction methods here and seeing a lot of homes, is that homes in The Villages are very well built, and if maintained, they should last a century. Perhaps “they don’t build them like they used to,” but building methods have changed. Steel studs, roof trusses, much better windows than were used in the sixties in Florida, more insulation, safer. You don’t need to worry about the quality of construction here, and don’t listen to the people on here who don’t really know much about building methods. Yes, the fixtures are contractor grade, which isn’t the best, but they work. Yes, I wish there were even more insulation, but I’ve seen worse. The Villages looks beautiful, and under that beauty is good bones.

Just to add, a lot of areas including HVAC are engineered in our homes meaning someone took time to figure out which sides of the home get the afternoon hot sun and add more HVAC in those rooms. These homes are very well built but as someone pointed out, the cabinets are builder grade so a pre-owned home with lots of upgrades is probably a better deal.

[MidWestIA]

I think the houses are reasonably well built - and yes roofs don't last as long here as up north due to other factors than not installed correctly

[Indydealmaker]

Let's start with this reality, which I think a lot of people don't consider or realize. A developer is producing a product to SELL. Period. Same as a manufacturer of jeans, cookies, tires, etc.

A relevant difference is that the maker of the last 3 products mentioned would really prefer you to be a lifelong customer so, they likely won't cut corners too sharply. A housing developer (not speaking about TV with this comment b/c it's a bit different than general housing) will very possibly only make one sale to an individual/couple, ever. So, their motivation for great quality is not as high. Especially if their buyer demographic is economically moderate or lower - they don't expect superior quality.

So, the bottom line is: the developers primary concern is SELLING the product, secondary concern is having it be good enough to withstand the warranty period without costing too much along with it not being so junky that negative reviews get around the community and make it tougher to sell new developments.

All of that lines-up with using the most inexpensive products that will still have a reasonable lifespan and getting the houses built as fast as possible (time is money) but, that sometimes means the build-quality is not the best because of haste or using lesser experienced subcontractors.

When I lived in Western NC, I had a 1963, 4-sides brick, raised ranch. The drive-under garage along with the large, daylight basement area was unfinished. When I had a contractor and framers there to do some finishing they marveled at how well-built the house was because they could see the raw undersides, foundation, etc. One of them said, "This era was when tradesmen still had pride of workmanship." I asked him, "What era doesn't evidence that?" He whipped his head around and replied, "New builds." Then he ranted for a minute about a fairly fancy newer development in town. He said, "the designs and details all look nice but, materials and workmanship are junk."

In today's economy, fewer than 1% would be able to afford a home of the quality to which you refer. Instead if $400k, the cost would exceed $2m.

[rsmurano]

There is no comparison between new houses and 1’s 20 years old: old homes have older technology, old out of date floor plans, outdated looks, and more. Block construction is much better than stick built and SIP and solid concrete walls are even better.
I’ve had a slate roof on 1 of my houses in 2020, and each tile weighed 11 lbs, and 1” thick. The roof had 1x2’s on top of the normal roof that the tiles connected too, so you had a double roof so if a tile came loose or cracked, the normal roof had tar paper down so you wouldn’t have any leaks.
My parents had a metal roof over 50 years ago and it was also indestructible. Not sure how metal roofs would stand up to hurricane winds.

[Packer Fan]

To establish my credintials- I have an Engineering degree and I handle major construction projects for a fortune 500 company. I know a few things about construction. I also have an MBA so I know a bit about economics.

There are a huge number of "mis statements" in this thread already. I would like to give you some facts -
1. The average house today is 1000 sq feet bigger than the average 100 years ago.
2. Houses today have all kinds of things that houses did not have in the past - Central HVAC, Central plumbing, cable wiring, etc. My parents grew up in the 40s and early 50s and got indoor bathrooms in their teens. It was not that long ago.
3. The "plastic" plumbing stuff(actually PVC or a variant of it, plex, etc) is WAY better than the lead bearing pipes that most older homes have. They will basically last forever people. The old stuff would deteriorate over time.
4. Most new homes have engineered materials everywhere, or modern designs. These are more economical, but also better. Do you really want to go back to fuse boxes???
5. All this speaks the "affordability" issue. Up until 1949, less than 50% of people owned homes and now there are about 65% who own. Sorry, we are living in bigger more affordable houses, that will last WAY longer than the shacks built in the early 1900s or even the ranches of the 1950s
6. TV houses are built to code for 130 MPH winds. They are rock solid. Nothing is perfect, but these are very good. Look at Video from a few years ago of the hurricane that hit Fort Myers. The homes built in the past 5 years look unaffected, anything older is gone.

The house you buy in TV will out last you by Several Generations..... Stop worrying.

[coffeebean]

I always wondered how metal roofs stand up in a hail storm?

Also, I doubt most people wouldn't invest $50,000 in a metal roof.
Even if they did, imagine their insurance premiums. :22yikes:

Are metal roofs loud when it rains?

[coffeebean]

Both roof types already exist within The Villages.

Aren't those metal roofs on the homes at LSL? We did our lifestyle visit in one of those homes. It didn't rain during our visit so I have no idea how loud the rain drops would be on a metal roof.

[coffeebean]

There is no comparison between new houses and 1’s 20 years old: old homes have older technology, old out of date floor plans, outdated looks, and more. Block construction is much better than stick built and SIP and solid concrete walls are even better.
I’ve had a slate roof on 1 of my houses in 2020, and each tile weighed 11 lbs, and 1” thick. The roof had 1x2’s on top of the normal roof that the tiles connected too, so you had a double roof so if a tile came loose or cracked, the normal roof had tar paper down so you wouldn’t have any leaks.
My parents had a metal roof over 50 years ago and it was also indestructible. Not sure how metal roofs would stand up to hurricane winds.

Our 17 year old home here in The Villages has a new HVAC system with smart technology. We replaced all those push/pull plumbing valves in the house, including the water line for the fridge. We replaced all cabinetry with the exception of the laundry room with upgraded cabinets (no stiles which I LOVE) and soft close drawers and doors. All our counter tops have been replaced with Quartz, including the laundry room. Our water heater was replaced a couple of years ago. Our carpet was replaced with wide plank flooring by the previous owner so we didn't have to do that. Our floor plan is totally open (living room, dining room and kitchen) and it was built that way so this floor plan looks very modern.

Bonus......our bond is paid off. And.......we have gas appliances and water heater.

Please don't poo poo the older homes here in The Villages. Some of them are up to date.

[coffeebean]

To establish my credintials- I have an Engineering degree and I handle major construction projects for a fortune 500 company. I know a few things about construction. I also have an MBA so I know a bit about economics.

There are a huge number of "mis statements" in this thread already. I would like to give you some facts -
1. The average house today is 1000 sq feet bigger than the average 100 years ago.
2. Houses today have all kinds of things that houses did not have in the past - Central HVAC, Central plumbing, cable wiring, etc. My parents grew up in the 40s and early 50s and got indoor bathrooms in their teens. It was not that long ago.
3. The "plastic" plumbing stuff(actually PVC or a variant of it, plex, etc) is WAY better than the lead bearing pipes that most older homes have. They will basically last forever people. The old stuff would deteriorate over time.
4. Most new homes have engineered materials everywhere, or modern designs. These are more economical, but also better. Do you really want to go back to fuse boxes???
5. All this speaks the "affordability" issue. Up until 1949, less than 50% of people owned homes and now there are about 65% who own. Sorry, we are living in bigger more affordable houses, that will last WAY longer than the shacks built in the early 1900s or even the ranches of the 1950s
6. TV houses are built to code for 130 MPH winds. They are rock solid. Nothing is perfect, but these are very good. Look at Video from a few years ago of the hurricane that hit Fort Myers. The homes built in the past 5 years look unaffected, anything older is gone.

The house you buy in TV will out last you by Several Generations..... Stop worrying.
Thank you. I now have peace of mind which, actually, I never lost.

[TomSpasm]

In my Courtyard Villa, built in 2011, the flooring contractor I hired to install 24" tiles in my living room, kitchen, and hallway, which he was reluctant to do, could not believe how perfect the floor was and how perfectly square every wall, the kitchen island, and the counter/bar area surrounding the sink were.

[Topspinmo]

I always wondered how metal roofs stand up in a hail storm?

Also, I doubt most people wouldn't invest $50,000 in a metal roof.
Even if they did, imagine their insurance premiums. :22yikes:

At time my metal roof on 2400 square foot house was 14K compared 10K for shingles. Actually my insurance when down cause metal roof last 50 plus years under normal circumstances.

I can tell you beings came from okieland where the have REAL hail storms. After replacing 3 roofs I put metal roof on. Golfball size hail don’t even put scratch. Baseball size will leave small to medium dent depending on angle struck. I found it funny that peas size hail started all the roofing scams in villages when most of villages didn’t get the hail. IMO most tropical storms around here are abnormal windy day in okieland.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

In another thread (Are you happy you made TV your retirement home?) I saw a couple of comments that disturbed me, and raised an issue only tangentially related to that thread:

OBB wrote
I hate that people think a 20-year-old home is "old." I hate the mentality behind that. Again - where I come from - an "old" home was built prior to 1925, and there are thousands of them in the New England area that function just fine, are well-insulated, have withstood dozens of nor'easters, and are beautiful.

And JLB replied
As far as 20-year-old houses being "old", I hear you. But given that nobody builds great houses like they did 100 years ago (at least, for those that could afford it), even expensive houses of today age far more quickly than they should. We are in a throw-away world, sadly.

So let's talk about this. I live in a home built in 1950. Is construction of the 1990s or 2000s fundamentally inferior? What's this stuff about homes aging far more quickly?
Are preowned homes older than a few years bad? Can someone cite examples?
(Thanks to all who reply.)

very generalized thesis, and highly dependent upon regular and quality care and maintenance.

[nn0wheremann]

In another thread (Are you happy you made TV your retirement home?) I saw a couple of comments that disturbed me, and raised an issue only tangentially related to that thread:

OBB wrote
I hate that people think a 20-year-old home is "old." I hate the mentality behind that. Again - where I come from - an "old" home was built prior to 1925, and there are thousands of them in the New England area that function just fine, are well-insulated, have withstood dozens of nor'easters, and are beautiful.

And JLB replied
As far as 20-year-old houses being "old", I hear you. But given that nobody builds great houses like they did 100 years ago (at least, for those that could afford it), even expensive houses of today age far more quickly than they should. We are in a throw-away world, sadly.

So let's talk about this. I live in a home built in 1950. Is construction of the 1990s or 2000s fundamentally inferior? What's this stuff about homes aging far more quickly?
Are preowned homes older than a few years bad? Can someone cite examples?
(Thanks to all who reply.)
Florida building codes were made much stricter in 2002, after Hurricane Andrew wiped out Homestead Florida.If your home was built or permitted before July 2002, you will have difficulty with getting homeowners insurance. Even if it meets Miami-Dade building code standards, you might need an inspection to verify plumbing, electrical, drainage, and wind mitigation. Too much of Florida is overpopulated and under engineered. Fortunately this seems not to be the case in The Villages.

[Laker14]

To establish my credintials- I have an Engineering degree and I handle major construction projects for a fortune 500 company. I know a few things about construction. I also have an MBA so I know a bit about economics.

There are a huge number of "mis statements" in this thread already. I would like to give you some facts -
1. The average house today is 1000 sq feet bigger than the average 100 years ago.
2. Houses today have all kinds of things that houses did not have in the past - Central HVAC, Central plumbing, cable wiring, etc. My parents grew up in the 40s and early 50s and got indoor bathrooms in their teens. It was not that long ago.
3. The "plastic" plumbing stuff(actually PVC or a variant of it, plex, etc) is WAY better than the lead bearing pipes that most older homes have. They will basically last forever people. The old stuff would deteriorate over time.
4. Most new homes have engineered materials everywhere, or modern designs. These are more economical, but also better. Do you really want to go back to fuse boxes???
5. All this speaks the "affordability" issue. Up until 1949, less than 50% of people owned homes and now there are about 65% who own. Sorry, we are living in bigger more affordable houses, that will last WAY longer than the shacks built in the early 1900s or even the ranches of the 1950s
6. TV houses are built to code for 130 MPH winds. They are rock solid. Nothing is perfect, but these are very good. Look at Video from a few years ago of the hurricane that hit Fort Myers. The homes built in the past 5 years look unaffected, anything older is gone.

The house you buy in TV will out last you by Several Generations..... Stop worrying.

thank you for your post, and for sharing your information based upon knowledge. Your post reminds me of a video I saw a few years ago about automobiles. The title was something like "They don't build them like they used to" and it showed a slow motion video of a 1960s era GM car being crashed, and essentially exploding into a mass of sharp edged projectiles, destined to kill passengers.

Then a more modern car crashing, and crumpling, but essentially staying intact and providing much more integrity of the passenger compartment.

[Laker14]

Our 17 year old home here in The Villages has a new HVAC system with smart technology. We replaced all those push/pull plumbing valves in the house, including the water line for the fridge. We replaced all cabinetry with the exception of the laundry room with upgraded cabinets (no stiles which I LOVE) and soft close drawers and doors. All our counter tops have been replaced with Quartz, including the laundry room. Our water heater was replaced a couple of years ago. Our carpet was replaced with wide plank flooring by the previous owner so we didn't have to do that. Our floor plan is totally open (living room, dining room and kitchen) and it was built that way so this floor plan looks very modern.

Bonus......our bond is paid off. And.......we have gas appliances and water heater.

Please don't poo poo the older homes here in The Villages. Some of them are up to date.

You probably don't have a 40 minute golf cart ride to the nearest square either.

[Normal]

Concrete shingles are the way to go. They hold up very well in wind and keep homes cool. I’ve seen them in a few costal places here in Florida.

[asianthree]

You probably don't have a 40 minute golf cart ride to the nearest square either.

South of 44, for us LSL, Brownwood, Sawgrass and Edna’s(just venue) in near future of Middleton are much less than 30 minutes.

When we lived in LSL we rarely traveled to SS, proper, ( in 2007 we did because LSL was a fledgling) SS was depending on traffic and the fun 2 lane frogger crossing of Morse in high season, plus Church crowd, about 30-40.

[Laker14]

South of 44, for us LSL, Brownwood, Sawgrass and Edna’s(just venue) in near future of Middleton are much less than 30 minutes.

When we lived in LSL we rarely traveled to SS, proper, ( in 2007 we did because LSL was a fledgling) SS was depending on traffic and the fun 2 lane frogger crossing of Morse in high season, plus Church crowd, about 30-40.

you can be south of 44 and not be in a new build, correct?

[coffeebean]

You probably don't have a 40 minute golf cart ride to the nearest square either.

Correct. Eight minutes by golf cart to Lake Sumter Landing.

[Blueblaze]

At time my metal roof on 2400 square foot house was 14K compared 10K for shingles. Actually my insurance when down cause metal roof last 50 plus years under normal circumstances.

I can tell you beings came from okieland where the have REAL hail storms. After replacing 3 roofs I put metal roof on. Golfball size hail don’t even put scratch. Baseball size will leave small to medium dent depending on angle struck. I found it funny that peas size hail started all the roofing scams in villages when most of villages didn’t get the hail. IMO most tropical storms around here are abnormal windy day in okieland.

Ain't that the truth! I had a tornado rip off half my roof in Tulsa once. Allstate replaced half my roof. I went though two cat-5 hurricanes and a flood in Houston, in an ordinary brick ranch house, and the only damage was when Rita pushed over part of my privacy fence. And yet, my insurance was a quarter of the cost for a smaller house in Florida, built to 130mph standards, in a place that has never had a hurricane.

But then, in Texas and Oklahoma, nobody expects their insurance company to buy them a new roof every 10 years, and no insurance company is dumb enough to sell "full replacement" polices that apparently include a "must pay scammers" clause.

What makes me mad is that I've never scammed an insurance company, or even filed a claim, since that one tornado, 40 years ago. But now I'm supposed to pay for all those free roofs. Why don't they just raise the rates on all those crooks who stole a roof from their insurance company, and leave the rest of us alone?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I always wondered how metal roofs stand up in a hail storm?

Also, I doubt most people wouldn't invest $50,000 in a metal roof.
Even if they did, imagine their insurance premiums. :22yikes:

Metal roofs stand up pretty well to hailstorms. We had hail last year and our roof has a few dings in it. But who cares? No one is looking at our roof. It's still intact, it's not missing chunks of it, it's not chipped or broken.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Are metal roofs loud when it rains?

Not much louder than any other roof is, when you're inside the house under the insulated ceiling. The skylight in my bathroom makes more noise when it's raining, than any other part of the house.