Water conditioner/filter/softener

[Silversurfer007]

Hi,

I’m looking to have a whole house system put in and would like to know what systems are used and the reliability of the unit and company.

Thank you

[villagetinker]

I have used Sears systems for over 50 years and everyone went beyond the rated 10 year warranty, no idea what I am going to use now, these were all DIY and all were great. The current system is a water softener and whole house filter, going on 10.5 years.

[PJ_Smiley]

installed Nova in 3 homes. In one home removed Pelican and installed Nova.

[dori2002]

Stay away from NOVA. You have been warned.

[BubblesandPat]

Stay away from NOVA. You have been warned.

Nova is what everyone recommended to us... I was wondering if people recommended them because its just who everyone uses... would love to hear more. Feel free to PM..

[jrref]

Water treatment systems in general are overpriced. People move to the Villages and tend to get all crazy about water and fall "hook-line-and-sinker" for the water person's sales pitch. The residential water treatment systems all basically use the same process for filtration and softening but you tend to pay way more for systems like Pelican. I'm not saying that their systems are not good, they are very good but you are paying more and may not be getting any better water.

I have the Nova filter and water softener installed now for almost 3 years and have had zero problems. I test my water and all is good. No matter what company you go with, here is what you need to know. Here in the Villages our domestic water supply is very good. No heavy metals or other dangerous contaminants at levels that we need to worry about. But we do get a lot of sediment and the water treatment folks use a LOT of chlorine in the water and it varies day to day and week to week. That said, you first want a three stage water filter system to remove the sediment and chlorine in the water. Nova and other systems use sediment and carbon block filters to accomplish this. If you are a DIY'r you can get an Express Water filter from Amazon for example but if you are not handy, call a professional like Nova.

Since our water is slightly hard, you may want in addition to get a water softener. Salt systems are mostly used but there are other more exotic systems that you can get that don't use salt. Either way, you can get a water softener in a single unit or in what I call separates where you have separate resin and brine tanks. They both work the same, just different physical setup. So you might say what's the difference? The difference is price, installation, reliability, and responsiveness of the company you use. Nova and Pelican have been installing systems in the Villages for many years. Are there installation and or maintenance problems from time to time, yes, but that's just the way it is. I've heard of people with single unit water softeners having the embedded carbon filter go bad, the resin going bad, all kinds of failures over time. I've heard of people claiming their water filtration system leaked but only to find out their hot water expansion tank went bad and the pressure in the house went way above normal causing the problem. The point is, there are lots of "stories and experiences" but we often don't hear about all the background and just assume. At the end of the day there is no "perfect" system. Everything installed in your home needs to be monitored and maintained from time to time.

What I can tell you from experience is the owner of Nova lives here in the Villages and has done research to customize their system to our water to get the most efficiency out of the system. They are also very responsive in my experience and easy to just call them to do the work and you are done. They can also come out once a year and replace your filters and they are reasonibly priced. For a Villager they provide a good service that's easy to use which is why many in the Villages use them. When they come to do the install they will also check your hot water expansion tank and pressures if you have one to make sure it's working as well. Their system also has easy to read pressure gauges that you can check from time to time to make sure the water pressure in your home is normal.

You can also go to Home Depot, Lowes, online or Amazon and get a system but it needs to be installed by a plumber and you are then responsible to deal with the water softener company and the plumber if something goes wrong.

I tend to perfer a system configured in "separates" like Nova installs vs the single unit that Pelican and other's install because of ease of maintenance. Also, what most don't know is in a single unit, on most systems there is a embedded carbon filter in the softener. Chlorine damages the resin so you want to filter that out first. These manufactureds say the carbon filter will last so there is no need to change it but in reality, I'm not sure that's true and you would need to test your water for chlorine at least once a year to verify this. This is why I like the three stage filtration system ahead of the softener. Every year to 18 months you just change the filter cartridges, (you can do this yourself), and you know you have a fresh new filter media and there is no guessing on what's going on.

Water filtration and softening is not "rocket science" and anyone coming in you home and testing your water and telling you it's really bad here in the Villages is not being truthful. So I hope all this information helps you make a more informed decision on how to proceed with water filtration and softening here in the Villages.

[TedfromGA]

I recommend Nova - reasonable cost, separate components for maintenance, responsive on service needs.

We installed Nova filters & water softener for the whole house 7 years ago when we moved in. The water softener is potassium based vs salt based. The potassium softener is healthier and the discharge is not harmful to landscape/lawn. Unfourtney potassium is more expensive than the salt.

Our water has a hardness of 15 graines which is extreme. The Nova system brings it down to 0 graines. When we moved in 7 years ago (house 10 years old at that time) we noticed all the water fixtures, toilets, and mirrors (splatter from the sinks) had noticeable calcium deposits which we had to scrub off with CLR. That is not an issue now.

Probably the biggest benefit from the Nova system is the water taste - there isn't any!

[metoo21]

We had Nova install their filter and softener system in 2 houses here. The individual parts (3 pre filters, resin tank and salt tank) is the best system IMO - especially for the price. Some people install just the softener and with our water that has sediment, this sediment can clog the resin in the softener tank causing it to prematurely need replacing. And as others have stated, chlorine also damages the resin. The pre filters are easily changed but I let Nova bring and replace them annually.

Don't be fooled. "Potassium" systems are still salt systems. It is potassium chloride. When most people think of salt, they think of table salt which is sodium chloride. There are endless salt compositions but the potassium chloride and sodium chloride are the 2 used to regenerate the resin in softeners. During regeneration, the water is dispensed usually in the landscape, the lawn or down the driveway. Either can damage concrete. Sodium chloride will kill plants. Potassium chloride is actually good for plants.

My softener drain is plumbed to a downspout that empties next to the curb so not much gets in the grass. I use sodium chloride. The cost savings over potassium chloride has more than paid for extending the downspout. Sodium chloride is about $9/ 40 lb bag and potassium chloride is about $40/ 40 lb bag. Both do the same job regenerating the resin. Some people are concerned about a possible sodium intake due to their health but it really doesn't add any significant amount of sodium to your drinking water. We use about 4 bags a year.

[PugMom]

Pegasus, Rte 301, Wildwood. great customer service, will even deliver, for a fee

[PugMom]

Water treatment systems in general are overpriced. People move to the Villages and tend to get all crazy about water and fall "hook-line-and-sinker" for the water person's sales pitch. The residential water treatment systems all basically use the same process for filtration and softening but you tend to pay way more for systems like Pelican. I'm not saying that their systems are not good, they are very good but you are paying more and may not be getting any better water.

I have the Nova filter and water softener installed now for almost 3 years and have had zero problems. I test my water and all is good. No matter what company you go with, here is what you need to know. Here in the Villages our domestic water supply is very good. No heavy metals or other dangerous contaminants at levels that we need to worry about. But we do get a lot of sediment and the water treatment folks use a LOT of chlorine in the water and it varies day to day and week to week. That said, you first want a three stage water filter system to remove the sediment and chlorine in the water. Nova and other systems use sediment and carbon block filters to accomplish this. If you are a DIY'r you can get an Express Water filter from Amazon for example but if you are not handy, call a professional like Nova.

Since our water is slightly hard, you may want in addition to get a water softener. Salt systems are mostly used but there are other more exotic systems that you can get that don't use salt. Either way, you can get a water softener in a single unit or in what I call separates where you have separate resin and brine tanks. They both work the same, just different physical setup. So you might say what's the difference? The difference is price, installation, reliability, and responsiveness of the company you use. Nova and Pelican have been installing systems in the Villages for many years. Are there installation and or maintenance problems from time to time, yes, but that's just the way it is. I've heard of people with single unit water softeners having the embedded carbon filter go bad, the resin going bad, all kinds of failures over time. I've heard of people claiming their water filtration system leaked but only to find out their hot water expansion tank went bad and the pressure in the house went way above normal causing the problem. The point is, there are lots of "stories and experiences" but we often don't hear about all the background and just assume. At the end of the day there is no "perfect" system. Everything installed in your home needs to be monitored and maintained from time to time.

What I can tell you from experience is the owner of Nova lives here in the Villages and has done research to customize their system to our water to get the most efficiency out of the system. They are also very responsive in my experience and easy to just call them to do the work and you are done. They can also come out once a year and replace your filters and they are reasonibly priced. For a Villager they provide a good service that's easy to use which is why many in the Villages use them. When they come to do the install they will also check your hot water expansion tank and pressures if you have one to make sure it's working as well. Their system also has easy to read pressure gauges that you can check from time to time to make sure the water pressure in your home is normal.

You can also go to Home Depot, Lowes, online or Amazon and get a system but it needs to be installed by a plumber and you are then responsible to deal with the water softener company and the plumber if something goes wrong.

I tend to perfer a system configured in "separates" like Nova installs vs the single unit that Pelican and other's install because of ease of maintenance. Also, what most don't know is in a single unit, on most systems there is a embedded carbon filter in the softener. Chlorine damages the resin so you want to filter that out first. These manufactureds say the carbon filter will last so there is no need to change it but in reality, I'm not sure that's true and you would need to test your water for chlorine at least once a year to verify this. This is why I like the three stage filtration system ahead of the softener. Every year to 18 months you just change the filter cartridges, (you can do this yourself), and you know you have a fresh new filter media and there is no guessing on what's going on.

Water filtration and softening is not "rocket science" and anyone coming in you home and testing your water and telling you it's really bad here in the Villages is not being truthful. So I hope all this information helps you make a more informed decision on how to proceed with water filtration and softening here in the Villages.

they were just so darn pushy, - we got repeated visits from salesmen who automatically assumed we'd buy. that was the main reason i avoided them when ready to shop

[dewilson58]

With Pelican, I understand you replace the sediment filter maybe yearly and the carbon maybe every 5 years. Do you ever have to replace the resin bed?

It's based on gallons used.
I'm 10 years into mine and I'm not even 1/2 thru.

[tophcfa]

We just drink and cook with gallon jugs of spring water from Publix. For the cost of installing a treatment system, and periodically replacing the filters, it would take practically forever for the cost of the water to become more expensive. Whenever we drive to our Florida home from up north we bring a couple 5 gallon containers of our delicious untreated water from our 300 foot deep well. That well water is about the only thing from up north that I ever miss when we go to the Villages.

[JMintzer]

Pegasus, Rte 301, Wildwood. great customer service, will even deliver, for a fee

Same here. Our re-sale came with a Pegasus system. We were using KCL, but it upset my wife's and the dog's lower GI system. We switched to NACL. Much cheaper and easier on the gut...

[villagetinker]

Same here. Our re-sale came with a Pegasus system. We were using KCL, but it upset my wife's and the dog's lower GI system. We switched to NACL. Much cheaper and easier on the gut...

I do not understand the dog and your wife's problems. I periodically check our system, and I have never found salt in the house water, I am guessing that your system is malfunctioning. You can get a simple test kit from the pet store in the fish section.

[Travelhunter123]

installed Nova in 3 homes. In one home removed Pelican and installed Nova.

I second Nova
Incredible system
Family owned
Live in the villages
I have had it for seven years
The other companies like Pelican send commissioned salesman to your home and attempt to sell way over reasonable retail

[Travelhunter123]

they were just so darn pushy, - we got repeated visits from salesmen who automatically assumed we'd buy. that was the main reason i avoided them when ready to shop

Same high pressure tactics they used on me

[HJBeck]

Does your whole house filter catch very much?

[westernrider75]

Hi,

I’m looking to have a whole house system put in and would like to know what systems are used and the reliability of the unit and company.

Thank you

We use the whole house Nova system, no problems, water is great. We didn’t feel the need for a softener.

[PersonOfInterest]

Be sure to check into lightning Rod systems, Deer whistles for the Car and the Golf Cart, monitored security system, crown molding, textured driveway, and elaborate landscaping. All are necessary essentials here in the Villages.

[lawgolfer]

Hi,

I’m looking to have a whole house system put in and would like to know what systems are used and the reliability of the unit and company.

Thank you

The biggest mistake made by most people is buying a softener and filter system that has far too much capacity for their needs. For example, Nova is a reputable local seller/installer with a good product. However, both their softener and their 3-filter system is easily double or triple what is needed for a two person household. Instead, go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a basic softener where the exchange tank sits inside the plastic bin that holds the salt. GE has a nice unit, although there are many similar ones. Next, buy a two-filter system (Nova sells a three-filter unit, the third filter being for heavy metals, which is completely unnecessary with The Village's water). Again, HD or Lowes has what you will need. Finally, buy the 10 inch model filter and not the 20 inch filters. One is for sediment and the other of activated charcoal is to remove the chlorine smell. Again, the 10 inch filters are more than you will ever need. However, the best reason to buy 10 inch filters is that the 20 inch models are very difficult to change. The filters are vertical and the plastic body screws into the metal head. When changing the filters (most likely once/year), you will be working on your knees, wrestling with a large wrench that slips over the plastic body, and unscrewing the plastic body upside down. The filter and body are filled with water and are very heavy, particularly as you will be working in an awkward position. That's why it is much easier with the 10 inch vs. 20 inch filters. Changing the 10 inch filters once/year is more than enough. Once/year with the 20 inch filters is overkill. You'll know when you need to change the filters when the chlorine smell returns.

If you have minimal DIY skills, you can install the system yourself. It is nothing more than cutting, fitting and gluing plastic pipes. You will need an electric drill to install the two, three, or four concrete bolts in the concrete block where you will be mounting the head of the filters. You can photograph and measure any of your neighbor's or friend's systems. There are several videos on YouTube. If you don't like doing it yourself, there are plenty of plumbers and handymen to do the job.

If you had a softener/filter system at a previous home, you know their benefits. If this will be your first system, you'll be amazed how much better the water will smell; how there will be no "white" build-up on your faucets and shower head, how much better your skin and hair will feel after showering; how there is no soap "scum" on your bathtub or shower walls, and how much cleaner your clothes are after being laundered.

[srswans]

Hi,

I’m looking to have a whole house system put in and would like to know what systems are used and the reliability of the unit and company.

Thank you

We have a Nova system, softener and filter, and are very unhappy with the performance. The water is barely soft, we have mineral stains on our fixtures and get water spots when washing the car. The softener has failed more than once and we have had several service calls just to get back to barely soft performance. The filters need to be changed every four months based on our volume usage.

We will probably swap to a new system should the Nova fail again.

[lottimeier]

installed Nova in 3 homes. In one home removed Pelican and installed Nova.

I am bypassing the Pelican system and searching for another one. Pentair was not helpful with my problems with Pelican, so I would not recommend that company, nor the system.

[lawgolfer]

Something is wrong. Unless you drilled your own well in your backyard, you should have none of the complaints you've listed with any water softener (I'm trying to be humorous-even if you drilled your own well, a softener/filter would eliminate your problems). The "matrix" inside the exchange tank can fail, but this is unusual. If it does, you have to swap out the tank (the black cylinder). I'd be inclined to check the "clock" that programs the softener's cycles. Also, check that the "bypass" valves in the plumbing are closed and that all incoming water is going through the filters and the softener.

[Raywatkins]

We use Nova and are happy with the system and company.

[lottimeier]

As I search for a substitute for the whole house Pelican system, I'm using a countertop distiller to purify my drinking water. It hums away on my porch, where I've stationed it to minimize the noise and heat it generates.

[Ploessl]

We used Culligan when we moved in a little over 2 years ago, no issues, we put in a softener and whole house filter system. It may cost you a little more than the other systems, but there is no comparison, have been using Culligan systems for nearly 30 years. Culligan of Ocala - 352-291-5900

[mark g]

Hi,

I’m looking to have a whole house system put in and would like to know what systems are used and the reliability of the unit and company.

Thank you

I would recommend Nova Water Systems.

[Cuervo]

I had installed Pelican about 6 years ago and it works perfectly, I use to change my refrigerator water filter every 4 months because it would clog with settlement. After it was installed, I never had to change it again.

Now for the bad news, the company itself was going through some changes and were becoming unreliable and were overcharging for their maintenance service.

The good news was I was approached by a service man who no longer worked for the company who drains the tanks and changes the filter twice a year and the UV light once a year which is on a timer. The cost $300 a year less than the company was charging, and I have clean water throughout the house. You can learn how to maintain it yourself, but at my age I'd rather let someone take care of it. Also, the refrigerator filters were about $60 a pop so if you deduct that amount from the $300, I'm only paying $120 for the yearly service.

[Markus]

Stay away from NOVA. You have been warned.


Why? We love ours.

[Redstag]

Which system do you need to stop the calcium buildup on the faucets? Filters, water softener, or both?

[PugMom]

Which system do you need to stop the calcium buildup on the faucets? Filters, water softener, or both?

i have both, & get very little sediment. it's great for washing hair & showering as well as controlling buildup. the rep did say not all Villages H20 is the same. our end south of 44 isn't as bad as others nearby

[jimbo2012]

Please be mindful a softener doesn't filter water it only softens, you need a filter more importantly.
We install filters without softeners also but can add one to the filter system later on.

We never knock on doors or pressure sell or over price you like others.
Don't let the door knockers "Sell you a Bill of Goods"

UP-front pricing
The filter is $695 installed
Softener is $1095 installed at same time or added later

See Nova Filters (https://novafilters.com/)

call for more info 352.566.2649

Bob (a Village Resident)

[coleprice]

We shopped around, acquired multiple estimates and got a great system from Jeff Ursu, who can be reached at 352-653-7708. We've had the system for 2 years and are very pleased with it.

[jimbo2012]

You need a filter not a softener alone

[Carlsondm]

First of all, I like the careful response of JRRef. We also noticed fluctuating sediment and chlorine problems, and decided to go with Nova. We went with a simple system for house water and have a Pur drinking water polisher. Pur is similar to Brita, etc.

We investigated Pelican and other treatment systems, determined the level of treatment we wanted, and initial and operating costs. Nova won for now. We have had the system for 5 years.

There is no need to buy an airplane with all the bells and whistles just to drive to the local pub. Well, for many of us I guess.

[jrref]

First of all, I like the careful response of JRRef. We also noticed fluctuating sediment and chlorine problems, and decided to go with Nova. We went with a simple system for house water and have a Pur drinking water polisher. Pur is similar to Brita, etc.

We investigated Pelican and other treatment systems, determined the level of treatment we wanted, and initial and operating costs. Nova won for now. We have had the system for 5 years.

There is no need to buy an airplane with all the bells and whistles just to drive to the local pub. Well, for many of us I guess.Thanks for the kind reply. I would really like to know what you get "extra" with some of these very expensive water filter/softener systems? I'm an engineer and have researched this topic extensively and I don't know why a filter & softener system from Nova can cost about $1,600 vs many more expensive ones $2,500 and up. I used Pelican only as an example because they sell a lot here in the Villages. Their systems are very good and my neighbor got one for $3,300 but I just don't see the difference in the filtering and softening process.

If you go on-line you can find many companies selling these systems and the filter replacements. In most cases like Express Water, you can see the spec's on the filters and if they have been tested or not. That said, if you compare two filter/softener systems with the same specs, why does one cost dramatically more than the other in many cases? Maybe the warrenty?

[jrref]

Does your whole house filter catch very much?

It removes all the chlorine and sediment which is the main problem with the water here in the Villages. The amount of sediment caught will depend on where in the Villages you live.

[splashes]

Check out Kinieco not the cheapest but we like it

[jrref]

The biggest mistake made by most people is buying a softener and filter system that has far too much capacity for their needs. For example, Nova is a reputable local seller/installer with a good product. However, both their softener and their 3-filter system is easily double or triple what is needed for a two person household. Instead, go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a basic softener where the exchange tank sits inside the plastic bin that holds the salt. GE has a nice unit, although there are many similar ones. Next, buy a two-filter system (Nova sells a three-filter unit, the third filter being for heavy metals, which is completely unnecessary with The Village's water). Again, HD or Lowes has what you will need. Finally, buy the 10 inch model filter and not the 20 inch filters. One is for sediment and the other of activated charcoal is to remove the chlorine smell. Again, the 10 inch filters are more than you will ever need. However, the best reason to buy 10 inch filters is that the 20 inch models are very difficult to change. The filters are vertical and the plastic body screws into the metal head. When changing the filters (most likely once/year), you will be working on your knees, wrestling with a large wrench that slips over the plastic body, and unscrewing the plastic body upside down. The filter and body are filled with water and are very heavy, particularly as you will be working in an awkward position. That's why it is much easier with the 10 inch vs. 20 inch filters. Changing the 10 inch filters once/year is more than enough. Once/year with the 20 inch filters is overkill. You'll know when you need to change the filters when the chlorine smell returns.

If you have minimal DIY skills, you can install the system yourself. It is nothing more than cutting, fitting and gluing plastic pipes. You will need an electric drill to install the two, three, or four concrete bolts in the concrete block where you will be mounting the head of the filters. You can photograph and measure any of your neighbor's or friend's systems. There are several videos on YouTube. If you don't like doing it yourself, there are plenty of plumbers and handymen to do the job.

If you had a softener/filter system at a previous home, you know their benefits. If this will be your first system, you'll be amazed how much better the water will smell; how there will be no "white" build-up on your faucets and shower head, how much better your skin and hair will feel after showering; how there is no soap "scum" on your bathtub or shower walls, and how much cleaner your clothes are after being laundered.

I know you "mean well" with your response and you have a lot of good information but a couple of corrections. The "Capacity" of the system relates to how many gallons per minute can it "process". This is important because when you are taking a shower and washing cloths at the same time or have the dishwasher running or someone flushes the toilet, you want to make sure you have enough water for all these devices. The Nova system, as you mentioned was sized for a typical home in the Villages meaning there are one or two residents vs a whole large family. I believe the system is good for 1-4 residents but the point is that it's not oversized. No matter which system you get, the filters and the softener have a maximun flow rate at a given water pressure and it's pretty consistent across filter types. This is why if you get a Nova, or a Pelican or a Rheem or GE or whatever system that has filtration, they will always have a rating on it's capacity related to water usage in a home with "X" number of people living in it.

As far as the size of the filter cartridge, the 20 inch filters have 2X the flow rate as the 10 inch filters. In my opinion and experience using 20 inch filters, you need the 20 inch ones to get the flow rate needed in our homes here in the Villages. In my home with the 20 inch filters, if i'm taking a shower and my wife washes cloths or flushes the toilet, I can see a slight reduction in water pressure in the shower. Part of this is due to the filter flow rate and the other is the capacity of the softener. You may be able to "get away" with 10 inch filters but I don't think it's a good idea.

The Nova filter three stage filter consists of two sediment and a carbon block filter. The sediment removes the sediment as the names says. The carbon block filter removes the chlorine and other chemicales in the water. You need a carbon filter to remove the chlorine. That said, once you have the filter system in place, you can change the filters once a year yourself. Nova has a system where you can buy the filters from them and DIY. Or you can get exact replacements from Express Water or the other numerous filter companies on Amazon. If you want more filtration you can get a 5 micron sediment filter, a carbon filter and a carbon block filter for example. They will go into the system since they are standard replacements. You are correct you don't need any heavy metal filters. But this is good for a DIYer. If you are a typical Villager you just call Nova and don't worry about it. As you said, when changing the filters yourself, they are full of water and heavy so most Villagers probably won't want to or be able to change them, themselves.

As to the units that you refer to at the big box stores, they are very good as well. The Rheem unit is good and has wifi with an app so you can monitor it but the thing you need to remember is if you go the big box store route, no matter how it gets installed, by you or a plumber, You will be very involved if something goes wrong vs just calling Nova and let them take care of it.

As I mentioned, water filtration and softening is not rocket science. There is no right or wrong, just be aware of the conseques of your choices. There is no real magic technology out there that you can buy or would potentially buy for a residence here in the Villages that would make one system cost 2X the cost of another unless other services or extended warrenties were included. Hope this helps.

[nancyre]

Have you found someone to service it with the change over?

[Kathryn Putt]

We are pleased with Nova. It was designed by someone who lives in TV. And it is environmentally friendly by using potassium not sodium. Good Luck

[virtualcynthia]

Please be mindful a softener doesn't filter water it only softens, you need a filter more importantly.
We install filters without softeners also but can add one to the filter system later on.

We never knock on doors or pressure sell or over price you like others.
Don't let the door knockers "Sell you a Bill of Goods"

UP-front pricing
The filter is $695 installed
Softener is $1095 installed at same time or added later

See Nova Filters (https://novafilters.com/)

call for more info 352.566.2649

Bob (a Village Resident)

Wow, I just got a quote, not Nova, for $5,500 for filter plus softener. What is average cost?

[villagetinker]

We have a Nova system, softener and filter, and are very unhappy with the performance. The water is barely soft, we have mineral stains on our fixtures and get water spots when washing the car. The softener has failed more than once and we have had several service calls just to get back to barely soft performance. The filters need to be changed every four months based on our volume usage.

We will probably swap to a new system should the Nova fail again.

If this system is similar to the Sears units I have had for decades, there is a small screen filter that feeds the brine tank. If this gets blocked, you get hard water. On the Sears unit it is very easy to remove and clean this filter. You may also want to check the order of your units, as I recall, the filters should be first and the softener last, this keeps the occasional sediment out of the water softener.

[dewilson58]

I had installed Pelican about 6 years ago and it works perfectly, I use to change my refrigerator water filter every 4 months because it would clog with settlement. After it was installed, I never had to change it again.

The good news was I was approached by a service man who no longer worked for the company who drains the tanks and changes the filter twice a year and the UV light once a year which is on a timer.

Can you share the name/number of the service provider???

[courtyard]

We have used Nova for several years now. However, the Nova serviceman said there was no way to get rid of the black gunk that clings to your faucets and shower walls. Any ideas?

[roadrnnr]

Same high pressure tactics they used on me
who are you talking about?

[roadrnnr]

Wow, I just got a quote, not Nova, for $5,500 for filter plus softener. What is average cost?
WHAT

I thought it was $695!!!

[virtue51]

After reviewing the various companies and options, I installed the Kinetico reverse osmosis water filter. Some of the other companies made claims that did not make any sense or they were untrue in their statements.

I am pleased with the system -- no longer purchase bottles of water.

[jimbo2012]

WHAT

I thought it was $695!!!

He was referring to another company not Nova!

It is $695
if you add softener $1095



Bob (owner of Nova)

.

[Notsocrates]

Pentair makes several including Fleck and Amtrol
Both are excellent.

[jrref]

We have a Nova system, softener and filter, and are very unhappy with the performance. The water is barely soft, we have mineral stains on our fixtures and get water spots when washing the car. The softener has failed more than once and we have had several service calls just to get back to barely soft performance. The filters need to be changed every four months based on our volume usage.

We will probably swap to a new system should the Nova fail again.

Can you tell us what Village you live in or if you live in the Villages? Do you have well water?

Based on helping my friends and neighbors change their filters in several different Villages, I'm shocked that you would have enough sediment to have to change the filters every 4 months. I was changing mine every year and decided to go to 18 months because the filters were still good at the 1 year mark. I know Nova recommends changing the filters every 9-12 months or 26,000 gallons but based on the data of equivalent filters, some are usually good for 100,000 gallons. I personally wouldn't let the filters go that long but how much water do you use each month? Do you live up North where the domestic water is used for irregation and using 5,000 gallons per month?

As far as the softener is concerned, make sure the filter is installed before the softener. This will make sure no sediment and chlorine enters the softener then there should be no need to clean the filter in the softener. I find it hard to believe the softener isn't working unless the resin is bad and that can be replaced. Or you are using so much water that the softener regeneration cycle needs to run more often.

I don't wan to be rude, but I believe there is more to the story because what you are saying doesn't make sense if your domestic water feed is from the Villages and you are not using domestic water for irregation. If you are using domestic water for irregation and can't put the filter and softener after the irregation feed, then you probably need a higher capacity softener but the filters shouldn't be clogging.

I've seen well water that has a huge amount of sediment and clogs these filters but in those cases you can install a spin-down filter in front of the three stage water filter to manage the sediment. There are also other systems that may need to be used with well water. Beyond that, if you have high sediment in your water and you are using a lot of water, there is really no majic filter from any company that's going to fix your problem. You will need to change the sediment filters more often.

[ScopeMan]

We have the Pentair Pelican System for 3 years now. Low salt usage and change the sediment filter every 6months.

[jimbo2012]

I know Nova recommends changing the filters every 9-12 months or 26,000 gallons but based on the data of equivalent filters, some are usually good for 100,000 gallons.



Our filters are our proprietary design made for us, I've been doing water filtration for many years, there is no way the claims of 100,000 gallons is possible nor can it be substantiated.

Just like changing your air con in your home or oil filter on your car, all filters reach a saturation point.
We use 26,000 based on history and results.

Also be aware you can't clean or backwash carbon.

.

[RustyN]

Stay away from NOVA. You have been warned.

Your statement really has no worth. Why not show the facts so people can look up you statement.

[Janie123]

Nova is what everyone recommended to us... I was wondering if people recommended them because its just who everyone uses... would love to hear more. Feel free to PM..
I put in Nova, nothing mechanical just 3 stages of filters I change myself annually for a little less than $100. I’ve had no issues with the system. Water tastes great. Actually removed my refrigerator filter permanently.

[lawgolfer]

Of course I mean well, as do you. However, you are wrong about capacity. The brine tank in the Nova system is at least twice the size it needs to be. There is minimal, if any, difference in the quantity of water delivered to the inside of the house whether it is run through a 10" filter or a 20" filter. This is easily confirmed by having pressure gauges both before and after the filter system.

The only advantage in using 20" filters vs. 10" ones, is that the filters will not need to be replaced as often, i.e. a 20" filter will last twice as long as a 10" filter. We have 20" filters which I used to change once/year. However, for two years running, the sediment filter was nearly pure white in color and did not need to be changed. From now on, I will wait two years before changing it. The reason that I recommend 10" filters is that changing a 20" filter is a PIA(pain in the ---).


As to the water softener, the only difference between a large exchange tank such as sold by Nova and a smaller tank used in the "all in one" softeners I recommend is the frequency with which the matrix (plastic beads) in the exchange tank is "washed" by the salty water from the brine tank. That frequency is adjusted by the controller which is, essentially, a clock. There is no discernible difference in the quantity of water sent to the inside of the house from a softener with a large exchange tank vs. a small tank. If your household uses an enormous quantity of water, the matrix in the exchange tank will have to be "flushed" more often then with a large tank.

Home Depot sells a Rheem 32K grain softener for $399, which is plenty for a Villages household of 2 people. If you want the Rheem 42K grain model it is $499. HD sells the iSpring 10" two stage filter set (one sediment, one activated charcoal) for $150. Estimated time for installation is 2 hours.

[jrref]

Of course I mean well, as do you. However, you are wrong about capacity. The brine tank in the Nova system is at least twice the size it needs to be. There is minimal, if any, difference in the quantity of water delivered to the inside of the house whether it is run through a 10" filter or a 20" filter. This is easily confirmed by having pressure gauges both before and after the filter system.

The only advantage in using 20" filters vs. 10" ones, is that the filters will not need to be replaced as often, i.e. a 20" filter will last twice as long as a 10" filter. We have 20" filters which I used to change once/year. However, for two years running, the sediment filter was nearly pure white in color and did not need to be changed. From now on, I will wait two years before changing it. The reason that I recommend 10" filters is that changing a 20" filter is a PIA(pain in the ---).


As to the water softener, the only difference between a large exchange tank such as sold by Nova and a smaller tank used in the "all in one" softeners I recommend is the frequency with which the matrix (plastic beads) in the exchange tank is "washed" by the salty water from the brine tank. That frequency is adjusted by the controller which is, essentially, a clock. There is no discernible difference in the quantity of water sent to the inside of the house from a softener with a large exchange tank vs. a small tank. If your household uses an enormous quantity of water, the matrix in the exchange tank will have to be "flushed" more often then with a large tank.

Home Depot sells a Rheem 32K grain softener for $399, which is plenty for a Villages household of 2 people. If you want the Rheem 42K grain model it is $499. HD sells the iSpring 10" two stage filter set (one sediment, one activated charcoal) for $150. Estimated time for installation is 2 hours.

As far as water softeners are concerned, you are correct in that the flow rate should not change given the size of the tank but as also mentioned, depending on the water softener size and flow rate through the softener, these variables will determine how efficiently the water will be softened by the softener and how many times the tank needs to be cleaned with the brine solution. Do you realize you can use as much as 50 gallons of water when the softener is in it's regeneration cycle? So more cycles is not better. It's also possible to have too much water flow where the softener is not be able to "keep-up" and the water not softened the desired amount. The chemical reaction in the softener tank has to have enough time to complete so the softener has to be sized to the anticipated water flow rate through it. Finally, the size of the brine tank is only as large as the amount of brine needed to clean the resin in the softener. The Nova brine tank may be physically larger than the tank in the All-in-one units but the volume of brine is similar.

As far as the flow rate and pressure drop when installing water filters, according to my research, 20 inch filters will have more surface area for the water to flow. So 20 inch water filters should be able to run at twice the flow rate for the same pressure drop as a 10 inch water filter with the same filtration technology. That said, if you want to change the filters less often and guarantee better water flow rate throughout the life of the filter, then it's best to go with the 20 inch cannister.
Here is one reference:
Most Common Water Filter and Water Treatment Questions - WaterFilters.NET (https://www.waterfilters.net/pages/most-common-water-filter-questions#:~:text=20%20inch%20water%20filters%20sh ould,to%20speak%20with%20a%20plumber).

At the end of the day, you are comparing a do-it-yourself option to a non-do-it-yourself option. There is no right or wrong. All companies have there "complaints and problem installs". I can tell you stories I've heard about most systems installed here in the Villages. There is no perfect company.

I believe the Nova filter and softener is specifically designed for the typical water usage of homes here in the Villages. Given the number of systems installed and the length of time here in the Villages, and the convenience they offer, gives a lot of credibility to the integrity of the company.

[jrref]

Our filters are our proprietary design made for us, I've been doing water filtration for many years, there is no way the claims of 100,000 gallons is possible nor can it be substantiated.

Just like changing your air con in your home or oil filter on your car, all filters reach a saturation point.
We use 26,000 based on history and results.

Also be aware you can't clean or backwash carbon.

.

I agree 100%. As I said, although similar filters claim longer life, I would never leave filters in that long. I was just pointing out that although Nova has a recommended filter change cycle, the filters can last longer depending on how clean your water is coming from the utility and even then, there is no guarantee that your water quality will be consistent throughout the year so having a replacement cycle based on actual experience is the best way to go.

[JMintzer]

I do not understand the dog and your wife's problems. I periodically check our system, and I have never found salt in the house water, I am guessing that your system is malfunctioning. You can get a simple test kit from the pet store in the fish section.

Nope, the system was checked by Pegasus. Once we switched to NaCL, everything was fine. It was the increase in Potassium that was the issue. Increased Potassium can cause diarrhea...

For some reason, it didn't bother me at all. But there are very few food that I cannot eat...

[Relivgal]

Try Nova whole house water filter solutions in Wildwood.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I'm an engineer and have researched this topic extensively and I don't know why a filter & softener system from Nova can cost about $1,600 vs many more expensive ones $2,500 and up.

That said, if you compare two filter/softener systems with the same specs, why does one cost dramatically more than the other in many cases? Maybe the warrenty?

The first problem is that you are an engineer, trained to be bound by the laws physics, chemistry, and few other immutable rules set by mother nature. :ho: so are my brothers and my dad. . . they all struggle with behavioral finance as well. ..

So you are looking at your problem from a linear, laws understanding, and humans and behavioral economics doesn't fit into that paradigm, at all. The reason could be unrelated to cost or quality or warranty.

At the end of the analysis, which would you buy and how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself. . . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .

not being critical, just seen the tendency of many engineers struggle with that and very similar issues. . :smiley:

[dewilson58]

The first problem is that you are an engineer, .................................................. .............................................. the tendency of many engineers struggle with that and very similar issues. . :smiley:

Ouch


:jester:

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Ouch

:jester:

I call 'em as I see'em

[lawgolfer]

As far as water softeners are concerned, you are correct in that the flow rate should not change given the size of the tank but as also mentioned, depending on the water softener size and flow rate through the softener, these variables will determine how efficiently the water will be softened by the softener and how many times the tank needs to be cleaned with the brine solution. Do you realize you can use as much as 50 gallons of water when the softener is in it's regeneration cycle? So more cycles is not better. It's also possible to have too much water flow where the softener is not be able to "keep-up" and the water not softened the desired amount. The chemical reaction in the softener tank has to have enough time to complete so the softener has to be sized to the anticipated water flow rate through it. Finally, the size of the brine tank is only as large as the amount of brine needed to clean the resin in the softener. The Nova brine tank may be physically larger than the tank in the All-in-one units but the volume of brine is similar.

As far as the flow rate and pressure drop when installing water filters, according to my research, 20 inch filters will have more surface area for the water to flow. So 20 inch water filters should be able to run at twice the flow rate for the same pressure drop as a 10 inch water filter with the same filtration technology. That said, if you want to change the filters less often and guarantee better water flow rate throughout the life of the filter, then it's best to go with the 20 inch cannister.
Here is one reference:
Most Common Water Filter and Water Treatment Questions - WaterFilters.NET (https://www.waterfilters.net/pages/most-common-water-filter-questions#:~:text=20%20inch%20water%20filters%20sh ould,to%20speak%20with%20a%20plumber).

At the end of the day, you are comparing a do-it-yourself option to a non-do-it-yourself option. There is no right or wrong. All companies have there "complaints and problem installs". I can tell you stories I've heard about most systems installed here in the Villages. There is no perfect company.

I believe the Nova filter and softener is specifically designed for the typical water usage of homes here in the Villages. Given the number of systems installed and the length of time here in the Villages, and the convenience they offer, gives a lot of credibility to the integrity of the company.

Unless a filter is full of sediment, the only restriction on the quantity of water that enters the house is the size of the pipe. A functioning filter, whether 10" or 20", sediment or charcoal, will always pass enough water to fill the pipes in a Villages house and at the normal pressure.

Some people buy Mercedes and others buy Fords. Either one will get you where you want to go. Some people spend thousands on reverse osmosis water systems instead of hundreds on canister filters and salt based water softeners. If you want a decent system consisting of a softener and filters, and have it installed, buy the Nova. If you want to save a few dollars, buy a Rheem or GE softener at Home Depot and the iSpring filter, and install them yourself. If not, Home Depot will set you up with a licensed plumber and guarantee his work. Another option is to hire one of the many local "handymen" to do the job. If you are not going to be changing the filters yourself, buy the 20" model. If you are going to change the filters yourself, you'll be a lot happier if you buy the 10" model. If you don't want to, or are not able to, drag a couple of 25 lb bags of salt home from Ace Hardware once or twice a year, hire a handyman.

[jrref]

The first problem is that you are an engineer, trained to be bound by the laws physics, chemistry, and few other immutable rules set by mother nature. :ho: so are my brothers and my dad. . . they all struggle with behavioral finance as well. ..

So you are looking at your problem from a linear, laws understanding, and humans and behavioral economics doesn't fit into that paradigm, at all. The reason could be unrelated to cost or quality or warranty.

At the end of the analysis, which would you buy and how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself. . . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .

not being critical, just seen the tendency of many engineers struggle with that and very similar issues. . :smiley:

I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree but it's your opinion and that's OK.

I believe all this discussion has at least given readers a better understanding of water filtration and softening and some of the options to purchase and install a system.

There are a lot of home improvment projects that myself and other's here have researched extensively and had a lot of experience with. This is why some of us spend a lot of time sharing on some of these threads in an effort to help clear up misinformation so readers can make a more informed decision.

Anyone can Google and watch YouTube videos on a specific topic but in my opinion, experience is the most valuable tool when making a decision.

The one thing I want to make sure everyone understands is you can always find a "less than desirable" review of some company performing some service. No company is perfect and we often don't get the whole story. So it's best to get the facts, check out several companies as best you can, look at All the reviews and come to decision.

As far as DIY or hire a professional, this decision depends on your skill set, the amount of your own time you want to personally spend, cost, and your tolerance for risk.

Hope all this discussion helps.

[ton80]

[Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy View Post
The first problem is that you are an engineer, trained to be bound by the laws physics, chemistry, and few other immutable rules set by mother nature. so are my brothers and my dad. . . they all struggle with behavioral finance as well. ..

So you are looking at your problem from a linear, laws understanding, and humans and behavioral economics doesn't fit into that paradigm, at all. The reason could be unrelated to cost or quality or warranty.

At the end of the analysis, which would you buy and how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself. . . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .

not being critical, just seen the tendency of many engineers struggle with that and very similar issues.

QUOTE=jrref;2340439]I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree but it's your opinion and that's OK.

I believe all this discussion has at least given readers a better understanding of water filtration and softening and some of the options to purchase and install a system.

There are a lot of home improvement projects that myself and other's here have researched extensively and had a lot of experience with. This is why some of us spend a lot of time sharing on some of these threads in an effort to help clear up misinformation so readers can make a more informed decision.

Anyone can Google and watch YouTube videos on a specific topic but in my opinion, experience is the most valuable tool when making a decision.

The one thing I want to make sure everyone understands is you can always find a "less than desirable" review of some company performing some service. No company is perfect and we often don't get the whole story. So it's best to get the facts, check out several companies as best you can, look at All the reviews and come to decision.

As far as DIY or hire a professional, this decision depends on your skill set, the amount of your own time you want to personally spend, cost, and your tolerance for risk.

Hope all this discussion helps.[/QUOTE]

SportsGuy why did you try to denigrate Engineers just because your family includes Engineers? My job for many years was to do initial planning for Refinery Projects in the areas of Energy Balance and Water Treatment of all types of water systems. The analyses and recommendations included the financials costs and returns as well as the engineering and reliability aspects. The Board of Directors including the Chairmen of ExxonMobil often started in Engineering initially.
Considering my background I will answer your question in Bold above:

1. At the end of the analysis, which would you buy
I decided to buy the Nova Filtration system with a Reverse Osmosis Filter
for the drinking water and ice maker. We decided to postpone any softener until we had experience with the filtered water for washing and bathing.
Our experience is that the filter works for us and we do not need a Softener.
The Reverse Osmosis unit reduced the dissolved minerals in our drinking and ice maker water. It also can remove bacteria and dissolved chemicals such as the "Forever Chemicals" etc. If there were solvents dumped into the groundwater the RO should remove them. RO's are being installed in municipal water systems in NC to remove forever chemicals from river water and solvents form well water.
I interviewed Pelican as part of the "Welcome Wagon" barrage. I sent him packing when he tried to show the "bad Stuff " in TV water by adding citric acid to a glass of drinking water. The resulting frothing of escaping CO2 was supposed to be bad stuff in the water when it really was acidifying the water to release CO2 from the bicarbonates in the drinking water. High School Chemistry.

2. how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself
I decided to contract Nova to install the system since they know their
system and I was working 50% time on international consulting work. At other homes, I installed cartridge filter systems for well water and filter systems on irrigation systems.

. . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .and NOVA costs are reasonable and much less expensive than Pelican or Kinetico

Now for some general thoughts on the subject of Softeners to add to the information that jrref provided in his response.
1. A softener is an Ion Exchange water treater. Your potable water goes through a filter system of both mechanical filters to remove suspended solids and an activated carbon bed to remove any residual free Chlorine disinfectant that was added by the water company. Free chlorine would damage the ion exchange resin.
The Softener itself contains ion exchange resin which has been regenerated with either sodium chloride (Na Cl) or potassium chloride ( KCL). As your potable water goes through the softener, Calcium ions are removed and replaced by either Na or K ions. So a softener can add sodium to the water if it is sodium salt regenerated resin. This is fundamental chemistry.

2. What is bad about "salt"? Salt is a basic name that is applied to many compounds. The bad salt is really the Sodium ion that is part of Sodium Chloride NaCl in saltwater.

3. What do aquarium "salinity Testers" measure? I believe that they are measuring the density or conductivity, etc. of the water and NOT Sodium content. Since the softener removes Calcium ions and replaces them with Sodium ions there probably is no real change in the water density or conductivity so it looks like no salt is added...but it is exchanged and Sodium content has increased.
Also the TV potable water has a low dissolved solids content of say 300 PPM whereas Seawater is more like 30,000+ PPM . I looked but did not find a definitive and clear answer. However, I am sure that NOVA knows the answer.

[jimbo2012]

Salt based softeners do add a small amount of salt to water, we recommend using potassium.
Since potassium chloride contains potassium, a nutrient known to help plants grow, they are considered more environmentally friendly than sodium chloride.
The backwash cycle will not harm grass or landscape like salt
This type of soft water will also be good for watering household plants, which is not recommended for water softened with sodium chloride.

A salt based system may have a minor effect on blood pressure
Also potassium can affect certain heart issues.
Check with your Dr if you have a heart related issue

However, potassium is more expensive than salt at the stores 2X

TDS total disolved solids here average about 200PPM, the only way to reduce TDS is to add a Reverse osmosis unit.

One last point Hard water does not have any harmful effect so a softener is not mandatory,
it an option.

The most important addition is the Nova Whole house water filter only $695, this should be a priority.

[Rderspamer]

Are you interested in a free, used Puronics system? You pick it up and install. It needs service.

[bsloan1960]

Stay away from NOVA. You have been warned.Did you post this simply to see a bunch of people reply to it? Your post has no value, other than to generate replies. How about taking 17 additional seconds and explain why you have issued this warning???

[dewilson58]

Did you post this simply to see a bunch of people reply to it? Your post has no value, other than to generate replies. How about taking 17 additional seconds and explain why you have issued this warning???

Can't explain issues with a paid advertiser..........."you" will get kicked off the site.

:beer3:

[jrref]

Can't explain issues with a paid advertiser..........."you" will get kicked off the site.

:beer3:
If you tell us in a factual way what happened without trashing the advertiser, you should be OK. Every service provider has "slip-ups" but what's important is working with them and see if they rectify the situation. Given Nova Filter's reputation, personally working with them and history here in the Villages, I find it hard to believe your feelings about them. When I had a small problem they were very responsive and corrected the issue right away.

[dewilson58]

............., you should be OK. ............

u would hope so

:pepper2:

[jrref]

u would hope so

:pepper2:

Here is an example:

I had a neighbor who had a whole house water filter installed by a company here in the Villages. All was good but about a month or two later they had a large flood in their garage because the filter failed. My neighbor was very upset and immediately blamed the filter company and talked about how bad it was. Upon investigation it was found that my neighbor's water heater expansion tank failed the water pressure in the house was dangerously high and caused the failure. My neighbor didn't do any kind of maintenance on their water heater and because of the very high pressure, the water heater was also found to be leaking.

A different neighbor decided to change the filters themselves and dropped one of them which created a micro crack in the plastic filter housing. Subsequently the filter leaked.

So the point is without knowing what actually happened, it's disingenuous to just make a statement.

[Spartan86]

Does your whole house filter catch very much?

These are my recently changed Nova filters after just over one year and approximately 25000 gallons - I believe that is the recommended change interval give or take a few thousand. The right is 20 micron, then 10 and then the carbon filter. I live in the Marsh Bend area, 2019 build. I did notice in a Jerry and Linda video they changed theirs and they did not look as dirty. I believe they are in Dunedin. FWIW