SECO Re: New Smart Meters

[Madee]

This post is from 2023:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/seco-switching-time-day-billing-342049/index5.html

It was a heads up for Villagers, and the OP was spot on in predicting that the first step would be to switch out our current meters. They have been switching them out, as far as I am aware, since early April 2023.

Does anyone know if they are doing this to start utilizing “Time of Day” billing? It’s where customers are billed higher rates during peak hours of the day, and lower rates during off-peak times.

[JRcorvette]

This post is from 2023:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/seco-switching-time-day-billing-342049/index5.html

It was a heads up for Villagers, and the OP was spot on in predicting that the first step would be to switch out our current meters. They have been switching them out, as far as I am aware, since early April 2023.

Does anyone know if they are doing this to start utilizing “Time of Day” billing? It’s where customers are billed higher rates during peak hours of the day, and lower rates during off-peak times.

Retired people will pay big time with time of day meters. We use most of our electric durning the daytime hours. Some people who moved to the Village will not be able to afford it much longer.

[Keefelane66]

This was also done in SW Florida LCEC FT Meyers, Marco Island eliminating the need for meter readers, meters are read through electric lines similar to cable companies connecting to your modem through MAC address.
“ AMI meters provide detailed usage data and other energy-saving tools that can help members save money on their bills. For example, members can use the system to review their energy usage in near real-time, set usage threshold alerts, and choose their billing date. SECO can also use the system to remotely transfer, reconnect, disconnect, and troubleshoot service.
Members who choose not to have an AMI meter will be charged a $40 monthly fee for SECO to dispatch a technician to read the meter and inspect it on-site.“

[Bill14564]

This post is from 2023:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/seco-switching-time-day-billing-342049/index5.html

It was a heads up for Villagers, and the OP was spot on in predicting that the first step would be to switch out our current meters. They have been switching them out, as far as I am aware, since early April 2023.

Does anyone know if they are doing this to start utilizing “Time of Day” billing? It’s where customers are billed higher rates during peak hours of the day, and lower rates during off-peak times.

The information they provide does not mention time of day billing.

Since SECO does not generate power they may not be affected by time of day usage patterns. On the other hand, if the electricity supplier is allowed to bill SECO by time of day then it's hard to imagine SECO would not pass those costs along to us.

Interesting note: SECO has chosen to go with AMI meters and has provided a list of advantages for the consumer. NSCUDD recently identified same set of advantages but chose to go with the less expensive AMR system instead. NSCUDD is considering a small rate decrease while SECO has just announced a significant rate increase for pole rental. Could be just a coincidence.

[twoplanekid]

The information they provide does not mention time of day billing.

Since SECO does not generate power they may not be affected by time of day usage patterns. On the other hand, if the electricity supplier is allowed to bill SECO by time of day then it's hard to imagine SECO would not pass those costs along to us.

Interesting note: SECO has chosen to go with AMI meters and has provided a list of advantages for the consumer. NSCUDD recently identified same set of advantages but chose to go with the less expensive AMR system instead. NSCUDD is considering a small rate decrease while SECO has just announced a significant rate increase for pole rental. Could be just a coincidence.

I am on the NSCUDD board and would not totally agree with your observation of this situation. Looks can be deceiving. It is my personal belief that AMI is the much better of the two systems and staff is looking at our situation to maybe make a change in how we will proceed. We will have to wait and see how things pan out. And, I have no knowledge of SECO board decision making.

[Bill14564]

I am on the NSCUDD board and would not totally agree with your observation of this situation. Looks can be deceiving. It is my personal belief that AMI is the much better of the two systems and staff is looking at our situation to maybe make a change in how we will proceed. We will have to wait and see how things pan out. And, I have no knowledge of SECO board decision making.

I was at the April(?) meeting and heard your objection to the decision to go with AMR as the less expensive option. I was not at the May meeting to hear the discussion of further looking into the situation or your idea to provision Community Watch vehicles with AMR readers to implement a quasi-AMI solution.

I prefer AMI as I have stated in a previous post in another thread. I suspect that glitches are occurring with the current meters that could be detected with the AMI system. Hopefully, those glitches will disappear or at least be more easily explained with the capabilities of the new AMR meters.

My comparison with SECO was only to wonder whether the difference in cost between the two meter systems might explain the difference in rate adjustments between the two providers.

[twoplanekid]

I was at the April(?) meeting and heard your objection to the decision to go with AMR as the less expensive option. I was not at the May meeting to hear the discussion of further looking into the situation or your idea to provision Community Watch vehicles with AMR readers to implement a quasi-AMI solution.

I prefer AMI as I have stated in a previous post in another thread. I suspect that glitches are occurring with the current meters that could be detected with the AMI system. Hopefully, those glitches will disappear or at least be more easily explained with the capabilities of the new AMR meters.

My comparison with SECO was only to wonder whether the difference in cost between the two meter systems might explain the difference in rate adjustments between the two providers.

My understanding of the lowering of rates for NSU operations was because of excess accumulation of reserves because of rates increases early in that system. For the newer CSU systems, the rate increases will be reduced from the projected increases from the last rate study. Accurate/final cost figures for an AMR system have not yet been presented to the board. Many things still in flux. Again, I don't have any figures for the SECO operation.

As you may recall from the meeting when the board voted on using a AMR system, one of staffs objections for using the AMI system was the need for finding tall locations to receive signals. Apparently SECO has that resolved. And, SECO doesn't believe that having their customers login in to view data collected an issue. Again, we will wait to see if opinions change on this AMI vs AMR issue with water systems in the Villages.

Thanks for attending the NSCUDD meetings as sometimes important issues for our customers are discussed.:smiley:

[Cliff Fr]

In some States these meters are being used to ration electric use to avert shortages.

[phylt]

We just got an EV. Applied to SECO for the $7 per month credit re their off-peak charge program. Had to supply info to them to confirm we have the EV and scheduled to charge off-peak. Approved and they said a new meter will be installed. Yes - to ensure that we are complying and charging off-peak. Set to charge at 2AM.

[Bill14564]

In some States these meters are being used to ration electric use to avert shortages.

I don't believe the meters are able to ration electric usage; at least I have not been able to find any mention of that capability.

I know that back in Md I signed up to have a device put on my heat pump that could disconnect the power to the compressor during times of peak electric usage. This was a separate device and not related to the meter at all.

[Chamo]

Well so much for saving money. As I had the new meter put in in my electric bill jumped each month over $40 so far
I would love to know how that happens. Apparently They are just gonna charge us a lot more. There is no way that my bill should jump $40 in one month and I did no changes.

[asianthree]

Well so much for saving money. As I had the new meter put in in my electric bill jumped each month over $40 so far
I would love to know how that happens. Apparently They are just gonna charge us a lot more. There is no way that my bill should jump $40 in one month and I did no changes.

Other than the rise in temperatures, did you keep track from last months daily temps to this month’s bill. My thermostat tell me the amount of running hours from month to month. We were up 17% and bill increase was $11. Our new meter was installed yesterday so will see if we have the rate hike you experienced

[Bill14564]

Well so much for saving money. As I had the new meter put in in my electric bill jumped each month over $40 so far
I would love to know how that happens. Apparently They are just gonna charge us a lot more. There is no way that my bill should jump $40 in one month and I did no changes.

What were the usage numbers on your bills for the last two months? What were the number of days in the billing cycles? What were the rates for the energy charges? Does the metering reading on your bill match the reading on the meter itself?

Temperatures have been increasing so usage might increase. If you happened to adjust your thermostat down then usage might increase.

SECO *might* have adjusted the date your meter was read when they installed the new meter. This might have caused fewer days to be counted for the last bill or more days for this bill. If this bill contains more days than the last bill then the amount charged will increase.

I haven't heard of a rate increase but I haven't received my bill for this month yet. *IF* the rate increased then that would cause the bill to increase.

There was one month when SECO read my meter wrong and my bill was too high; the next month it balanced out. With the AMI meters the readings should be more accurate but it's easy enough to go outside and read it yourself.

If all the above check out then the only way for this meter to result in a higher bill is if your old meter was counting slow or this meter is counting fast. Both of those are very, very unlikely.

[Stu from NYC]

We just got an EV. Applied to SECO for the $7 per month credit re their off-peak charge program. Had to supply info to them to confirm we have the EV and scheduled to charge off-peak. Approved and they said a new meter will be installed. Yes - to ensure that we are complying and charging off-peak. Set to charge at 2AM.

With hot weather our ac is running pretty consistently so of course our cost up substantially

[Just jimmy]

Retired people will pay big time with time of day meters. We use most of our electric durning the daytime hours. Some people who moved to the Village will not be able to afford it much longer.

We had time of day billing years ago in Pennsylvania. It was not that big of a deal. We ran our pool at different hours. We just changed the timer to off peak times. We ran the dishwasher at night. I think the cheaper hours started at like 9 pm. I ran the dryer then. We saved a lot of money.

[Gettingoutofdodge]

This post is from 2023:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/seco-switching-time-day-billing-342049/index5.html

It was a heads up for Villagers, and the OP was spot on in predicting that the first step would be to switch out our current meters. They have been switching them out, as far as I am aware, since early April 2023.

Does anyone know if they are doing this to start utilizing “Time of Day” billing? It’s where customers are billed higher rates during peak hours of the day, and lower rates during off-peak times.

I am use to time of day billing because that is how they billed for electric in my home on Staten Island. It wasn’t an issue in the winter but in the summer months when the AC was on, it made a difference. I did laundry and used the dishwasher during off peak hours. I still start the dishwasher and do laundry in the evening. I don’t do both at the same time. Maybe my bill will go down? The electric here is much cheaper than what I paid in NY. They are installing my new meter soon, so we shall see.

[New Englander]

If a person is not home when Seco shows up at their house to replace the meter. I would assume they have to kill the power to the house. When they turn the power back on can you get a power surge?

[Bill14564]

If a person is not home when Seco shows up at their house to replace the meter. I would assume they have to kill the power to the house. When they turn the power back on can you get a power surge?

The notice I received said there was no need to be home and there would be a short outage during the replacement. That all makes sense - the meter is outside the home so they don't need me and no power would flow while the meter was removed.

There would be no more surge than with any other power outage.

[asianthree]

If a person is not home when Seco shows up at their house to replace the meter. I would assume they have to kill the power to the house. When they turn the power back on can you get a power surge?

The notice I received said there was no need to be home and there would be a short outage during the replacement. That all makes sense - the meter is outside the home so they don't need me and no power would flow while the meter was removed.

There would be no more surge than with any other power outage.

Our meter was replaced yesterday. Knock on the door, card on the door. By the time I got to the door and outside meter was already changed. Lost power for less than 2 minutes. Took another minute for power, pool equipment and WiFi to return. Have set up their website, to build profile that will provide enhanced user data. Not sure what that entails since it may take up to 60 for data integration, to view daily usage, and other info.

Other than the evil reset of clock on range and one old clock. It was painless. Very nice young man in a seco truck, with identification. I needed to check if pool equipment needed shut down first. That was a No, then took a few minutes to answer couple other questions.
The meter part itself isn’t large. It was changed very quickly..

[Toymeister]

I was the OP who predicted this in 2023. At the time I was roundly criticized.

The truth comes at you in small pieces. At first Seco denied this, now a year later the masses are starting to see this come to fruition. It is bitter sweet to be vindicated.

Seco is changing because their rates are set by peak hour usage. They aren't time of day billing yet, but they don't have the capability to. Once they do, by installing the new meters, I expect now as I thought in 2023, to be on time of day billing.

Ask yourself this, if this is not the plan why install new meters at all? Sure this eliminates the need for meter readers but smart meters can do so much more. Why not use time of day billing; the capability will be easily turned on.

[Bill14564]

I was the OP who predicted this in 2023. At the time I was roundly criticized.

The truth comes at you in small pieces. At first Seco denied this, now a year later the masses are starting to see this come to fruition. It is bitter sweet to be vindicated.

Seco is changing because their rates are set by peak hour usage. They aren't time of day billing yet, but they don't have the capability to. Once they do, by installing the new meters, I expect now as I thought in 2023, to be on time of day billing.

Ask yourself this, if this is not the plan why install new meters at all? Sure this eliminates the need for meter readers but smart meters can do so much more. Why not use time of day billing; the capability will be easily turned on.

I didn't see it as you being roundly criticized though there was some skepticism, particularly when a SECO rep denied the move.

The Time of Use (TOU) rates are in section 9.1 of the SECO rate tariff published on 5/1/24. That section is dated 12/1/21 so perhaps it also existed in a previous tariff. It looks like you were off by 1 cent for the SOP rate (7 cents vs 6 cents) but all the other numbers you reported were dead on.

The tariff still shows this as an optional rate. We'll have to see how long it remains optional once the meter replacement has been completed.

[maryhermann]

I have an EV. I also have solar panels. I tried to ask SECO if it would be advantageous for me to charge during the day using my solar panels or sign up for their EV program and the $7 credit to charge at night. Of course they could not answer my question. I decided to go with the night charging of the car figuring I could cancel it at any time if I decided I didn't feel it was advantageous. At the moment it seems to be working to my advantage. The highest paying times in the summer are only 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. Kind of right when you would be cooking supper!!!! Lowest prices start at midnight. I do my wash and dishwasher during the day before 4, utilizing hopefully my solar capabilities.

[derkster]

Health Risks Posed by Smartmeters - Environmental Health Trust (https://ehtrust.org/educate-yourself/health-risks-posed-by-smartmeters/)
You may want to start with this article and do some research on the subject.
This has been an ongoing issue for years in this country.
How much is your health worth to you? Unless they charge us less by the elimination of meter reader jobs
they should not charge us 40.00 to reject the smart meters.

[Pugchief]

Health Risks Posed by Smartmeters - Environmental Health Trust (https://ehtrust.org/educate-yourself/health-risks-posed-by-smartmeters/)
You may want to start with this article and do some research on the subject.
This has been an ongoing issue for years in this country.
How much is your health worth to you? Unless they charge us less by the elimination of meter reader jobs
they should not charge us 40.00 to reject the smart meters.

From the linked article: The radiation generated by smartmeters is the same type as generated by your cell phone- radiofrequency radiation.

Let me know when everyone gives up their cell phone. And WiFi for that matter, which also emits radiation of questionable health.

[Pugchief]

I am on hourly pricing UpNorth. I have also owned a Tesla for 5 years. Not sure what everyone is afraid of; you can save a fortune on electricity with a few minor changes in habit. Afternoon A/C is the one exception.

[ShabbyChick]

These Smart Meters emit high doses of radiation. Be sure to learn more before you switch. There are several covers that block the radiation as well as wallpaper.

Fran

This post is from 2023:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/seco-switching-time-day-billing-342049/index5.html

It was a heads up for Villagers, and the OP was spot on in predicting that the first step would be to switch out our current meters. They have been switching them out, as far as I am aware, since early April 2023.

Does anyone know if they are doing this to start utilizing “Time of Day” billing? It’s where customers are billed higher rates during peak hours of the day, and lower rates during off-peak times.

[MorTech]

Oh No!!! RF Radiation!!! We.Are.All.Going.To.Die!!!

[Sabella]

Well so much for saving money. As I had the new meter put in in my electric bill jumped each month over $40 so far
I would love to know how that happens. Apparently They are just gonna charge us a lot more. There is no way that my bill should jump $40 in one month and I did no changes.

No change in my electric usage and yet my new bill has gone up $40 for the month. I don’t mind the price increase but this is ridiculous.

[simplesimonsaid]

These Smart Meters emit high doses of radiation. Be sure to learn more before you switch. There are several covers that block the radiation as well as wallpaper.

Fran

hope you never need an xray or mri scan.

[Bill14564]

No change in my electric usage and yet my new bill has gone up $40 for the month. I don’t mind the price increase but this is ridiculous.

How many KWH USED and how may DAYS SERVICE on your last bill and this one?

My meter won't be read until next week so I don't know yet how the heat in June will affect my bill.
(EDIT: I just read the meter and calculated the bill by hand. Mine will be going up at least $21 with no change in usage)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The interesting part of time of day billing is that solar is available during AC times, during the day. . of course it's not always available due to weather, so is the time of day billing based upon with solar or without solar or with partial solar generation with a generalized weather assumption?

inquiring minds want to know. .

[Altavia]

How many KWH USED and how may DAYS SERVICE on your last bill and this one?

My meter won't be read until next week so I don't know yet how the heat in June will affect my bill.

In case not aware, a Sense is great for monitoring energy usage and easy to install.

It helpful understanding power consumption in real time and reduction in electrical consumption.

Sense.com – The Sense Home Energy Monitor (https://sense.com/)

[Bill14564]

In case not aware, a Sense is great for monitoring energy usage and easy to install.

It helpful understanding power consumption in real time and reduction in electrical consumption.

Sense.com – The Sense Home Energy Monitor (https://sense.com/)

Thanks.

There is another poster on here who uses a similar system (might be the same) and I've thought about it but just haven't bought it yet. Was worried about installation but I'll take a look at the manuals.

[daniel200]

These Smart Meters emit high doses of radiation. Be sure to learn more before you switch. There are several covers that block the radiation as well as wallpaper.

Fran

Nothing that a tinfoil hat will not filter out. Be sure to wear one.

[dewilson58]

Meters smarter than the homeowner??

:shocked:

[tbatterman]

I would like to know how and why these new meters would lead to inaccurate meter readings? Twice within the past year my monthly bill was way higher than expected - like double what it should have been - only to find out that the problem was an error with the meter reading. When it happened the first time I know several of my neighbors had the same problem. I was gone when it happened most recently this past May so I didn't have a chance to find out if mine was just an isolated incident or if it was again a problem for a bunch of us in our neighborhood. But how does this even happen?? I've had meters read the "good old fashioned way" in Wisconsin for almost 50 years and have never once had a problem with an erroneous reading.....

[Bill14564]

I would like to know how and why these new meters would lead to inaccurate meter readings? Twice within the past year my monthly bill was way higher than expected - like double what it should have been - only to find out that the problem was an error with the meter reading. When it happened the first time I know several of my neighbors had the same problem. I was gone when it happened most recently this past May so I didn't have a chance to find out if mine was just an isolated incident or if it was again a problem for a bunch of us in our neighborhood. But how does this even happen?? I've had meters read the "good old fashioned way" in Wisconsin for almost 50 years and have never once had a problem with an erroneous reading.....

Do you have one of the smart meters? The SECO map shows most of the Villages as in-progress but it doesn't show how much has been completed. The entire effort started just a year ago. Are you sure you have a smart meter and that you've had it long enough for two errors to have occurred in the past year?

I had a bad reading last year with my non-smart meter when it was read the "good old fashioned way."

The new technology requires new software and errors happen. Perhaps you were "lucky" enough to be one of the first on the new system and got to see the errors before they were corrected.

[biker1]

Presumably it all evened out the next month with a correct reading? Regarding the smart meter replacement, it might be worthwhile to take a photo of the reading on the old meter just before it is replaced. Trust but verify, as they say.


I would like to know how and why these new meters would lead to inaccurate meter readings? Twice within the past year my monthly bill was way higher than expected - like double what it should have been - only to find out that the problem was an error with the meter reading. When it happened the first time I know several of my neighbors had the same problem. I was gone when it happened most recently this past May so I didn't have a chance to find out if mine was just an isolated incident or if it was again a problem for a bunch of us in our neighborhood. But how does this even happen?? I've had meters read the "good old fashioned way" in Wisconsin for almost 50 years and have never once had a problem with an erroneous reading.....

[fishon]

Smart meters can diminish the power to unsafe levels for air conditioners and can shut you off remotely, at least the new ones being installed in Delaware can.

[MorTech]

Nothing that a tinfoil hat will not filter out. Be sure to wear one.

Actually, tin foil will stop ionizing radiation :) Imagine every atom in your body being stripped of electrons....Curses Marconi!...No...Wait...Curses Einstein!...No...Wait...Curses physical reality! :)

Everyone should own a Geiger Counter so that they can be continually scared to death. It's better than watching the idiot box!

[Craig Vernon]

There are too many comments on here to respond to them all individually. I have worked for an energy company for 36 years and these meters have been used in Ohio for 20 years to eliminate meter readers, get accurate monthly reads instead of estimates, flag low and high usage accounts more quickly. These meters are regulated by the state here and once approved the customer does not have a choice as the equipment is owned by the utility. Refusing to allow a utility to access their equipment will eventually result in a turn off notice then disconnection. I am not familiar with Florida, and I am not saying what is right or wrong just adding some facts. Have a wonderful day all!

[Keefelane66]

There are too many comments on here to respond to them all individually. I have worked for an energy company for 36 years and these meters have been used in Ohio for 20 years to eliminate meter readers, get accurate monthly reads instead of estimates, flag low and high usage accounts more quickly. These meters are regulated by the state here and once approved the customer does not have a choice as the equipment is owned by the utility. Refusing to allow a utility to access their equipment will eventually result in a turn off notice then disconnection. I am not familiar with Florida, and I am not saying what is right or wrong just adding some facts. Have a wonderful day all!
I remember the 50’s and 60’s my parents had meter in basement the power company would send out a post add to be returned with meter reading. Once power service was upgraded meter was moved to outside all.

[courtyard]

It looks like we'll have to change out our wooden plantation shutters with our aluminum ones. Don't want to experience all that radiation from the Smart Meters.

[mbene]

I remember the 50’s and 60’s my parents had meter in basement the power company would send out a post add to be returned with meter reading. Once power service was upgraded meter was moved to outside all.

Growing up, our gas meter was in the basement. I can remember being in the house and suddenly the screen door, which was never locked, would fly open and while announcing "GAS MAN" the meter reader would come in and clomp down the stairs then 30 seconds later you would hear him come back up the stairs and fly out the door and head to the next house.