Lightning Strikes in the Villages

[jrref]

During the recent storm we had Friday night into Saturday morning three homes in the Villages were struck by lightning. One serious with a fire and the other two no fire.

Too see and read the article on the terrible strike in Charlotte Google "lightning-strike-punches-hole-in-roof-of-home-in-the-villages" and click on the first article by the Villages News too see all the pictures.

Lightning is unpredictable and it looks like these people are not going to be living in their home for a while since there are probably not a lot of contractors waiting around to rush and repair this home and it takes a while for the Insurance to assess and pay for the damages. I'm also assuming with a strike this large that several neighbors around this home had major power surge damage to their electronic devices and appliances.

The reason why I'm posting this is because we live in one of the lightning capitals of the world due to our proximity to the east and west coast weather here in Florida. Random lightning strikes is something we need to live with, especially with all the new homes. Last year a lightning strike in one of the new areas would have occured in a field. Today, there is a home there.

The Villages Lightning Study Group has been giving free community service non-commercial educational presentations in The Villages on lightning since 2009. They address personnel lightning safety indoors and out, surge protection, lightning protection systems (LPS), and dispel many of the myths and misunderstandings about lightning.

One of the misconceptions they dispel is that lightning protection systems do not work. Lightning protection systems have been proven effective for over 200 years and they do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the National Fire Protection Association-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2023 Edition. The Principles of Lightning Protection are discussed in Annex B. They also suggest that only firms listed by UL with craftsmen who have met the Master Installer criteria of the Lighting Protection Institute be considered when selecting a contractor.

Another reference used in their presentations is The Art & Science of Lightning Protection Systems, by Dr. Martin Uman, from the University of Florida who has been studying lightning for over four decades.

Over the years there have been may studies that have proven the advocacy of LPS. One such study was conducted at the University of Florida's International Center for Lightning Research & Testing at Camp Blanding.

Lightning Protection Systems are used world-wide and locally have been installed on all water & sewage stations, every building in Sumter Landing including your former retail store, all the sales centers, the Sharon, Savannah Center, most churches, the new schools, the hospitals, the developer's own homes, and many Villagers have chosen to protect their own residence.

I mention this NOT to sell Lightning Protection and power surge systems but to make everyone aware that there are free presentations being given in the Villages giving the facts so homeowners can make a more informed decision based on their tolerance for risk and their specific situation. Nothing man made is 100% effective but there is a good chance if these homeowners had a Lightning Protection System installed by a certified UL listed company that they may have been spared this unfortunate event.

[justjim]

I don’t believe there are any lightning systems installed in my immediate neighborhood. Most do have some type of surge protection. Maybe they are too expensive to install and maintain?

[jrref]

I don’t believe there are any lightning systems installed in my immediate neighborhood. Most do have some type of surge protection. Maybe they are too expensive to install and maintain?

The price will depend on the roof size of your home, how many roof peaks you have, if you have a bird cage, gas, etc.. But most systems for a designer home will be between $2,000 to $3,500.

[jrref]

The price will depend on the roof size of your home, how many roof peaks you have, if you have a bird cage, gas, etc.. But most systems for a designer home will be between $2,000 to $3,500.

As far as maintenance, every 3-5 years you call them and have them come out and check the connections and the status of the grounding rods. Cost $100-$150.

If you get a new roof, they will uninstall the system and re-install it at a nonimal cost.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I have a metal roof. My risk is minimal without any fancy extra doodads and gizmos.

[villagetinker]

I would like to see a discussion of lightning protection (sharp pointy objects) on your roof, versus the devices SECO uses at some of their substations, these look like a large Dandelion bloom. I worked in this industry and these are designed to DISSIPATE the charge and avoid the lightning strike. Sharpe pointed objects then at ATTRACT lightning strikes. These are applied to ATTRACT the strike to the protective wiring and away from the roof. May point is why not have the devices that dissipate the charge installed?
Looking forward to an interesting discussion.

[djlnc]

I see CMCE lightning suppressors advertised that say they will "eliminate the threat of lightning strikes". Sounds too good to be true.

Question - there has been discussion of the cheap gas lines in attics with the never ending goal of reducing costs. I wonder if they would run a length of non-conductive (PVC?) line up to the attic so the attic line would not be grounded - would that lessen the chance of lightning hitting the gas line?

[Dotneko]

I would like to see a discussion of lightning protection (sharp pointy objects) on your roof, versus the devices SECO uses at some of their substations, these look like a large Dandelion bloom. I worked in this industry and these are designed to DISSIPATE the charge and avoid the lightning strike. Sharpe pointed objects then at ATTRACT lightning strikes. These are applied to ATTRACT the strike to the protective wiring and away from the roof. May point is why not have the devices that dissipate the charge installed?
Looking forward to an interesting discussion.

Does that mean my neighbor, who has a higher roof than i do and has lightning rods will protect my house from a strike? Im going with that theory.

[MikeVillages]

I see CMCE lightning suppressors advertised that say they will "eliminate the threat of lightning strikes". Sounds too good to be true.

Question - there has been discussion of the cheap gas lines in attics with the never ending goal of reducing costs. I wonder if they would run a length of non-conductive (PVC?) line up to the attic so the attic line would not be grounded - would that lessen the chance of lightning hitting the gas line?
I don't think PVC can be used for gas. The lawsuit of several years ago the Weather Club talks about every year was the thin gas flexibility gas pipes from the gas manifold to the various gas appliances. The best solution is to have thick pipes as my previous home up north. The previous owner of my home took the money from the lawsuit and had the lightning medication system put in. There is also a grounding wire from the manifold to Earth.

Maybe someone from the Weather Club will have additional information.

[MikeVillages]

Does that mean my neighbor, who has a higher roof than i do and has lightning rods will protect my house from a strike? Im going with that theory.
NO, it will not protect your home!!

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I would like to see a discussion of lightning protection (sharp pointy objects) on your roof, versus the devices SECO uses at some of their substations, these look like a large Dandelion bloom. I worked in this industry and these are designed to DISSIPATE the charge and avoid the lightning strike. Sharpe pointed objects then at ATTRACT lightning strikes. These are applied to ATTRACT the strike to the protective wiring and away from the roof. May point is why not have the devices that dissipate the charge installed?
Looking forward to an interesting discussion.

TOTALLY AGREE!

lightning prevention versus lightning damage minimization expecting to be hit.

Lightning rods are great if the structure is a high probable target, not so much with very low probability targets. . . Low probability should have lightning strike prevention, not lightning strike damage minimization. .

then I am willing to listen and act

[jrref]

I would like to see a discussion of lightning protection (sharp pointy objects) on your roof, versus the devices SECO uses at some of their substations, these look like a large Dandelion bloom. I worked in this industry and these are designed to DISSIPATE the charge and avoid the lightning strike. Sharpe pointed objects then at ATTRACT lightning strikes. These are applied to ATTRACT the strike to the protective wiring and away from the roof. May point is why not have the devices that dissipate the charge installed?
Looking forward to an interesting discussion.

The Villages Lightning Study Group did do research on this type of device and the data is inconclusive on if it actually works. The theory is good and there are a lot of entities testing these devices. There is some thought that conventional lightning rods can and o "bleed off" some of the charge in the air potentially preventing a strike but only if the charge is not great enough to jump and strike.

Conventional lightning rods used today do not attract lightning in the sense that if the ionization of the air over your neighbors house was prime for a strike, the lightning charge would not divert and hit your house with lightning rods instead. It just doesn't work that way. We have actual case data on strikes here in the Villages where homes were hit with a home next to them and across the street with lightning protection systems. We also have cases where a home was hit with a very large tree behind it in the yard. Lightning struck the house and not the tree. The problem when analysing lightning strikes is its unpredictible. It depends on the ionization of the air at any given time above your house during a severe storm. All the lightning protection system does is, if lightning strikes, instead of punching a hole in your roof and then ricocheting around your attic like a bullet destroying everything in it's path searching for earth ground, the low electrical potential of a lightning rod on the roof will send the charge safely to ground.

If you are interested, next time we do a presentation, come by and see what the group has to say and you can speak to John Shewchuk our resident meteorologist about the conditions where lightning strikes.

[Altavia]

I see CMCE lightning suppressors advertised that say they will "eliminate the threat of lightning strikes". Sounds too good to be true.

Question - there has been discussion of the cheap gas lines in attics with the never ending goal of reducing costs. I wonder if they would run a length of non-conductive (PVC?) line up to the attic so the attic line would not be grounded - would that lessen the chance of lightning hitting the gas line?

What would happen to PVC gas line In a fire?

[jrref]

TOTALLY AGREE!

Lightning rods are great if the structure is a high probable target, not so much with very low probability targets. . . Low probability should have lightning strike prevention, not lightning strike damage minimization. .

then I am willing to listen and act

I'm not sure how you can classify one home in the Villages more of a target than another. In all the cases the study group has documented, there was nothing that would indicate one home being more volunerable than another. In fact the strike in Osceola Hills last month was just an ordinary large designer home.

If there were some technology to prevent lightning strikes that would be great but until there is something like that, that's proven, its best to just install a lightning and surge protection system which is better than doing nothing.

Just to be clear. Eventhough your home is insured, the insurance company is not going to quickly pay a very large claim like this especially if the strike causes a large fire and does a lot of damage. Also, there are not contractors waiting to rush and fix and or rebuild your home. We have documented case information from actual homeowners here in the Villages who can colloborate that it's a life changing event if your home is struck by lightning and it causes a lot of damage. Some of these homeowners have not been able to return to their homes for over a year and in some cases rebuilt as best they could and sold the home. So all this said, you need to determine your tolerance for risk then decide to do what you can or nothing and play the lottery since we live in one of the lightning capitals in the world and there is no denying that fact.

[Topspinmo]

While talking about lightning strikes for those interested here real time lighting strike map for next thunderstorm.
Real Time Lightning Map :: LightningMaps.org (https://www.lightningmaps.org/?lang=en#m=oss;t=4;s=0;o=0;b=27.83;ts=0;y=29.0311; x=-81.8832;z=12;d=9;dl=8;dc=0;)

[Topspinmo]

I see few in my neighborhood, any idea guess how much lightning rod setup cost on small CYV?

[Topspinmo]

What would happen to PVC gas line In a fire?

I think these are in most older homes in villages?



“”. The gas piping is known as corrugated stainless steel tubing, or “yellow CSST.” “Homes with yellow CSST are at risk of perforation to the gas line caused by lightning strikes which could cause gas leaks or fires,” says Insurance Commissioner Karen Weldin Stewart.Jun 18, 2015 “””


IMO needs to be class action law suit.

[djlnc]

What would happen to PVC gas line In a fire?

Enclosed in garage wall and insulated. Just wondering if there was a way to isolate attic metal gas pipe from ground.

----------------------------------
It occurred to me that the appliance end of the gas line is grounded anyhow, so my idea has no merit. :>(

[elevatorman]

I think these are in most older homes in villages?



“”. The gas piping is known as corrugated stainless steel tubing, or “yellow CSST.” “Homes with yellow CSST are at risk of perforation to the gas line caused by lightning strikes which could cause gas leaks or fires,” says Insurance Commissioner Karen Weldin Stewart.Jun 18, 2015 “””


IMO needs to be class action law suit.

Many jurisdictions hav banned the use of "yellow CSST" "black CSST" is more resistant to electrical energy.

[MidWestIA]

My friend had a lightning rod it got hit and started a fire in the attic

[JudyLife]

We had a LPS installed several years ago after attending a talk at the Science & Technology Club. Made absolute sense & we feel it’s kind of like an extra ‘insurance’ on our villa, paid a reasonable price and feel a bit ‘easier’ when there’s a storm.

[JudyLife]

We paid about $1300

[huge-pigeons]

There are many ways that lightning can damage your home and it doesn’t have to be a direct strike, and most aren’t direct hits. Right now, my friend that lives 1/2 mile away from the home that got hit with lightning, his internet service has been out since then and his neighbors had their TVs destroyed. Again all explainable.

Let’s ignore the direct hit, this is self explanatory, get lightning spikes installed on your house.
Power surges are very common and can damage equipment in your house so a whole house surge suppressor will help eliminate these surges.
The 3rd issue is something nobody addresses and that’s the copper cable coming into your home from a network or cable tv provider, which nobody suppresses. Every device that is connected to this copper cables is susceptible to a surge and will be damaged. Most of my surge suppressor indoor units have a rg6 connection to eliminate any surges.
There are many stories on lightning hitting a tree then having the voltage go down the tree trunk, hitting the power lines and then the neighbors experience a surge which damages their indoor appliances

[Bill14564]

My friend had a lightning rod it got hit and started a fire in the attic

- If the fire was in the attic then the charge from the lightning went into the attic
- A lightning protection system (LPS) should carry the charge along cables to the ground and not let it into the structure
- A poorly installed LPS might not have sufficient grounding and therefore would not carry the charge away
- You mention a singular lightning rod installed. A proper LPS would have multiple "rods" at different points on the roof, at least one at each end of the peak. If he had only a single rod then it was not a properly installed LPS system.
- Nothing is 100% effective; the LPS should significantly decrease the likelihood of damage but cannot totally eliminate it

[Altavia]

I think these are in most older homes in villages?



“”. The gas piping is known as corrugated stainless steel tubing, or “yellow CSST.” “Homes with yellow CSST are at risk of perforation to the gas line caused by lightning strikes which could cause gas leaks or fires,” says Insurance Commissioner Karen Weldin Stewart.Jun 18, 2015 “””

IMO needs to be class action law suit.

There was, so they added a black plastic coating to CSST imtended to seal a pinhole leak to "reduce" the risk from that can happen with a nearby lightning strike. I would have happily paid the extra cost of iron pipe.

Having metallic gas lines in the attic is one of the main reasons I had a LPS installed.

Lightening hit the iron gas line where it comes into the garage at the meter on three homes near us the past 5 years. One home completely destroyed, still not habitable two years later.

It almost as if the homes have a single lightening rod consisting of the grounded iron pipe from the gas meter into the attic where it connects to the metallic gas line?

[Jameson]

What evidence is there to prove or disprove if they work? Often there is a storm in the middle of the night (last night for instance) when I woke up hearing a loud crack of lightning very close. Apparently no homes burned down, no sirens. Quite a few of the homes in my area do have lightning systems so maybe one was stuck but the system worked. Unless there is a witness to a direct strike how do we really know? I imagine over the years at least a few people in TV must have witnessed one of these events.

[spinner1001]

My friend had a lightning rod it got hit and started a fire in the attic

Your anecdote says nothing about whether having a lightning protection system reduces the risk of a lightning strike anymore than saying another friend who installed a lightning rod has not been hit by lightning.

[Bill14564]

What evidence is there to prove or disprove if they work? Often there is a storm in the middle of the night (last night for instance) when I woke up hearing a loud crack of lightning very close. Apparently no homes burned down, no sirens. Quite a few of the homes in my area do have lightning systems so maybe one was stuck but the system worked. Unless there is a witness to a direct strike how do we really know? I imagine over the years at least a few people in TV must have witnessed one of these events.

The best evidence you could look for would be examples of protected houses being damaged by lightning. Have there been examples of homes with an LPS being damaged?

It still would be valid to suggest that maybe no homes with LPS were damaged because none were hit. But over time as more and more homes are damaged, it would statistically significant if none of those homes had an LPS system.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I'm not sure how you can classify one home in the Villages more of a target than another. In all the cases the study group has documented, there was nothing that would indicate one home being more volunerable than another. In fact the strike in Osceola Hills last month was just an ordinary large designer home.

If there were some technology to prevent lightning strikes that would be great but until there is something like that, that's proven, its best to just install a lightning and surge protection system which is better than doing nothing.

Just to be clear. Eventhough your home is insured, the insurance company is not going to quickly pay a very large claim like this especially if the strike causes a large fire and does a lot of damage. Also, there are not contractors waiting to rush and fix and or rebuild your home. We have documented case information from actual homeowners here in the Villages who can colloborate that it's a life changing event if your home is struck by lightning and it causes a lot of damage. Some of these homeowners have not been able to return to their homes for over a year and in some cases rebuilt as best they could and sold the home. So all this said, you need to determine your tolerance for risk then decide to do what you can or nothing and play the lottery since we live in one of the lightning capitals in the world and there is no denying that fact.

your paragraph #1, I didn't say that I was classifying each home differently just because they were hit, I am saying that given the number of houses in TV, each house has a low probability versus a 10 story building, or a large metal structure such as an electrical substation in the same area.

your paragraph #2, there is lightning strike prevention equipment, regardless whether your group has validated their effectiveness or not. . they are in use around the country in high value / high probability targets.

your paragraph #3, FUD bias as its not related to points about strike versus damage prevention systems, but the results of damage when hit.

[dewilson58]

LPS will NOT prevent a strike.

If you have a LPS & you have a strike, you will have damage.

[jrref]

What evidence is there to prove or disprove if they work? Often there is a storm in the middle of the night (last night for instance) when I woke up hearing a loud crack of lightning very close. Apparently no homes burned down, no sirens. Quite a few of the homes in my area do have lightning systems so maybe one was stuck but the system worked. Unless there is a witness to a direct strike how do we really know? I imagine over the years at least a few people in TV must have witnessed one of these events.

You are absolutely correct. When lightning strikes anything, home, tree, ground, etc, meaning cloud to ground strike, we always hear a loud bang depending on how close it is to our house. But if it hits an object we usually see a fire and that tells us what happened. On the other hand if your home had a LPS for example, and lightning hit and was safely shunted to ground, unless you were actually standing outside your house at that moment, you would not know what actually happened. The Villages Lightning Study Group has I believe 16 documented cases of homes that the owners believed were hit by lightning. From one we have the damaged lightning rod, and in the others there was some evidence of the grounding cable getting hot and scortching a bush branch touching the wire.

[spinner1001]

The Villages Lightning Study Group did do research on this type of device and the data is inconclusive on if it actually works.

Too little data exist to have reliable evidence about the effect size of lightning protection systems. Controlled experiments are impractical because lightning strikes on structures are too infrequent and random. Collecting quality data would be very costly. Anecdotes are not data.

All one has is theory and common sense about the effect of LPS. Then the personal decision whether paying for a LPS is worth it is — personal.

[jrref]

your paragraph #3, FUD bias as its not related to points about strike versus damage prevention systems, but the results of damage when hit.

It's not FUD bias. The point I was trying to make is regardless of what anyone thinks about lightning protection systems and their effectiveness, when your home gets struck by a significant strike and causes major damage to your home, it has the potential to be a life changing event. At some of our presentations, homeowners in the Villages who's homes have been struck by lightning come and share their experiences. Just relaying the common post strike experiences most of these people have.

[spinner1001]

LPS will NOT prevent a strike.

If you have a LPS & you have a strike, you will have damage.

Key word: Prevent.

‘Prevent’ and ‘lowers risk’ are not the same.

[DonnaNi4os]

About a year ago my neighbor’s ac was struck by lightning, knocking out the electric items in the garage. Surprisingly the house next door was unaffected by a surge. Another person in our neighborhood had her fountain struck and it damaged the front of her house. Surprisingly it did not hit the highest point of either home. That is baffling to me as I always thought that lightning hit the tallest things. As far as I can see, only one neighbor has a lightning rod installed but there are many flag poles which I would imagine attract lightning. Hmmm

[jrref]

Too little data exist to have reliable evidence about the effect size of lightning protection systems. Controlled experiments are impractical because lightning strikes on structures are too infrequent and random. Collecting quality data would be very costly. Anecdotes are not data.

All one has is theory and common sense about the effect of LPS. Then the personal decision whether paying for a LPS is worth it is — personal.

Actually, much is known about lightning and the effectiveness of lightning protection systems.

One of the misconceptions is that lightning protection systems do not work. They have proven effective for over 200 years and they do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the National Fire Protection Association-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2023 Edition. The Principles of Lightning Protection are discussed in Annex B.

Another reference is The Art & Science of Lightning Protection Systems, by Dr. Martin Uman, from the University of Florida who has been studying lightning for over four decades.

Also over the years there have been may studies that have proven the advocacy of LPS. One such study was conducted at the University of Florida's International Center for Lightning Research & Testing at Camp Blanding.

There are many other references and data.

As far as the newer systems which try and prevent a lightning strike, as some have commented, yes these devices are currently installed and being evaluated for their effectiveness. NASA has an elaborate setup at the cape.

[Bill14564]

LPS will NOT prevent a strike.

LPS will not DRAW a strike either. LPS are there to provide protection in case a strike occurs.

If you have a LPS & you have a strike, you will have damage.

"Will have damage"? Is that speaking from experience or skepticism? Is the damage that "will" occur when lightning strikes a house with an LPS of the same magnitude as the damage that occurs when lightning strikes a house without an LPS?

There is an article from 2021 in the newspaper that shall not be named with the statement, "Over a dozen Villagers, with an LPS, have reported that their home was struck by lightning and in no case was there any fire or structural damage." No, that doesn't say there was no damage at all but I will take some singed shingles or burnt rods over the hole in the roof that was recently pictured in the same paper.

[dewilson58]

LPS will not DRAW a strike either. LPS are there to provide protection in case a strike occurs.



"Will have damage"? Is that speaking from experience or skepticism? Is the damage that "will" occur when lightning strikes a house with an LPS of the same magnitude as the damage that occurs when lightning strikes a house without an LPS?

There is an article from 2021 in the newspaper that shall not be named with the statement, "Over a dozen Villagers, with an LPS, have reported that their home was struck by lightning and in no case was there any fire or structural damage." No, that doesn't say there was no damage at all but I will take some singed shingles or burnt rods over the hole in the roof that was recently pictured in the same paper.

Never said it will draw.

Never mentioned magnitude.

:faint:

[jrref]

There are many ways that lightning can damage your home and it doesn’t have to be a direct strike, and most aren’t direct hits. Right now, my friend that lives 1/2 mile away from the home that got hit with lightning, his internet service has been out since then and his neighbors had their TVs destroyed. Again all explainable.

Let’s ignore the direct hit, this is self explanatory, get lightning spikes installed on your house.
Power surges are very common and can damage equipment in your house so a whole house surge suppressor will help eliminate these surges.
The 3rd issue is something nobody addresses and that’s the copper cable coming into your home from a network or cable tv provider, which nobody suppresses. Every device that is connected to this copper cables is susceptible to a surge and will be damaged. Most of my surge suppressor indoor units have a rg6 connection to eliminate any surges.
There are many stories on lightning hitting a tree then having the voltage go down the tree trunk, hitting the power lines and then the neighbors experience a surge which damages their indoor appliances
Thanks for this good points. What you are describing is an "Induced power surge" as a result of a lightning strike. As you correctly state, this happens way more frequently than damage from direct strikes to property. It's just not discussed and reported because it's not as sensational to the news outlets as someone having a huge hole punched in their roof or the whole house totally destroyed by fire as happened in Linden Village last year. You mainly hear about these events from your neighbors at local gatherings, etc.. You are also correct in that most induced power surges travel into your home through the cable and or telephone lines and or your irregation system. If you have cable, there are devices you can buy on Amazon that will protect your home from these surges. With Fiber internet service this isn't a concern becasue no copper wiring there. Unfortunately, I don't know of a device that will protect intrusions from the irregation system.

As one of the engineers in the Villages Lightning Study group I focus on Power Surge Protection. To add to your very accurate comments, here is what we say about induced power surges. I've posted this response several times when this topic comes up.

>>>>
When lightning strikes near your home you may get hit by an "induced“ surge which frequently trips circuit breakers, especially freezers and door openers in your garage but depending on the intensity can damage your HVAC system, inside and out, all your appliances, electronic equipment, pool and spa equipment, etc.. Surge protection is a layered system. There is a surge protector you can purchase or rent from your electric company mounted on the electrical meter as discussed here in this thread, which will protect you against surges coming in from the power lines. This happens statistically 20% of the time. The electric company has a sophisticated surge and grounding system to protect from this type of event and because most power surges don't come into your home from the utility, many who have this device still report surge damage in their home and the surge protector at the meter shows no sign of a surge. In addition to the surge protector at your electrical meter you can install what is called a "whole house surge protector". There are many but the Eaton Ultra is one of the more affordable and effective ones that's commonly installed by most electrical companies such as Pikes and Lenhart. This surge protector is mounted at your electrical circuit breaker box. Because it’s located at the breaker box the other 80% of the power surges you can get such as at the outside HVAC unit, pool, spa, outside lighting, etc., will be shunted by this device at the circuit breaker box and reduce and or eliminate the surge from spreading to the rest of the circuits in your home. Because surges are so fast, the surge protector has to be as close to the source as possible to be effective. The surge protector mounted on the electrical meter can help, but it's not designed to shunt these other types of induced surges. Its sole purpose is to reduce large surges coming from the power lines or surges induced into the power lines coming to your home so the rest of the surge protectors in your home can handle the level of the surge that remains. It can also shunt power surges origination from the rest of your electrical system but not to a low enough level for total protection. This is why their warranty doesn't cover any device with an electronic board. The "whole house" surge protector mounted in your circuit breaker box will protect your appliances, washer dryer and all other devices that are hard wired such as the HVAC air handler and your electric hot water heater because it's designed to shunt surges to either eliminate them or shunt them to a low enough level that your devices or other surge protection can handle the surge. The final protection are the surge protection power strips, plug-in or point of use surge protectors which you install at your TVs, computers and any other sensitive electrical equipment. These devices will shunt and protect your equipment form any remaining surges that get through your meter or whole house surge protector. If you want to go further you can install point of use surge protector outlets or plug-in protectors for your microwave, dishwasher, garage door openers, etc. and or hard-wired surge protectors at you outside HVAC unit, pool and spa equipment.
To summarize, Surge Protection is a layered system. You want to install surge protectors to reduce and or eliminate the power surge so by the time an initally large surge reaches your home devices it's small enough for the point of use surge protector to handle it. Damage from power surges is covered in your homeowner’s insurance but you still have to pay the deductible and deal with replacing all the damaged devices. We live in the lightning capital of the USA so investing in surge protection is probably a wise investment but like insurance, it depends on your tolerance to risk. Most of us have at least $1,000 deductible on our homeowner’s insurance which more than pays for the surge protection I discussed here. At the end of the day, you need to look at what it will cost to install a surge protection system, at a minimum installing something like the Eaton surge protector in your circuit breaker panel and point of use surge protectors at your TV, computer and other sensitive devices, vs your tolerance for risk. Eventhough your insurance will cover devices destroyed by power surges in your home, you will have the inconvenience of dealing with the insurance company, having to replace everything that was destroyed and probably get an increase in your insurance premium at your next renewal.
<<<<<

[Bill14564]

About a year ago my neighbor’s ac was struck by lightning, knocking out the electric items in the garage. Surprisingly the house next door was unaffected by a surge. Another person in our neighborhood had her fountain struck and it damaged the front of her house. Surprisingly it did not hit the highest point of either home. That is baffling to me as I always thought that lightning hit the tallest things. As far as I can see, only one neighbor has a lightning rod installed but there are many flag poles which I would imagine attract lightning. Hmmm

In reading about this topic when it came up last year, I came across a description of LPS design that used the concept of a rolling ball. The idea is that lightning doesn't come from the clouds directly to the ground in one arc, instead it makes several jumps of about 50m until it reaches ground.

At some point it will have reached close to the ground. From there, it will "look" for the easiest path to the ground that is 50m-100m away. If the top of the flagpole is closer than the fountain then it will go to the fountain. If the tree in the front yard is closer than the peak of the house then it will go to the tree. It doesn't go to the tallest thing around, it goes to the tallest thing within 50m to 100m.

Rather than thinking of flagpoles and lightning rods as things that attract lightning, think of them as the highest points within 50m. One flagpole in front of the house will not protect the back of the house. One lightning rod on the roof will not protect the entire roof. That's why an LPS system will have several rods on the peaks of a house.

[Pennyt]

Lightning struck a SECO light pole in front of our house some time ago. The bolt ran through the pole and then through the ground to our Sylvester palm tree in the front yard. The tree died within a few weeks, and it cost us over a thousand dollars to have it removed and replaced. Insurance covered about $500. The strike also took out our thermostat and computer printer. This was not a direct hit on our house. Lightning strikes can travel through the ground apparently.

[Bill14564]

Never said it will draw.

Never mentioned magnitude.

:faint:

Sometimes size does matter. In the case of a home getting hit by lightning with and without an LPS, size matters a great deal.

[Altavia]

You are absolutely correct. When lightning strikes anything, home, tree, ground, etc, meaning cloud to ground strike, we always hear a loud bang depending on how close it is to our house. But if it hits an object we usually see a fire and that tells us what happened. On the other hand if your home had a LPS for example, and lightning hit and was safely shunted to ground, unless you were actually standing outside your house at that moment, you would not know what actually happened. The Villages Lightning Study Group has I believe 16 documented cases of homes that the owners believed were hit by lightning. From one we have the damaged lightning rod, and in the others there was some evidence of the grounding cable getting hot and scortching a bush branch touching the wire.

Very interesting, 16 homes over how many years?

Did these protected home have any induced damage from the EMP?

You probably have better data. But assuming 70,000 homes in the Villages, and 7 home strikes a year, risk is in the 1/10,000 range?

Appreciate the knowledge you are sharing.

[jrref]

My friend had a lightning rod it got hit and started a fire in the attic
Nothing man made is 100% effective but in addition if the LPS was not installed properly it may not work.

When a home is hit here in the Villages and it's a spectactular event, many homeowners see getting hit by lightning may be more of a reality here in the Villages and start getting estimates for a system. Unfortunately, there are many private individuals who are not UL certrified and trained by the Lightning Protection Institue to install these systems and do it incorrectly. They usually go door-to-door in these Villages soliciting work after a major strike.

If you had a lightning protection system installed by A1 Lightning Protection or Triangle Lightning Protection Systems, both UL Certified and trained and have a long positive history of installing these systems here in the Villages, both residential and commercial, then we would like to know about it and that would be a topic of discussion to see what actually happened. Unfortunately this industry is not regulated so you need to make sure whomever you hire is UL Certified and trained. A1 and Triangle have done work here in the Villages for many years and both participate in many activities and presentation in the Villages.

[Bill14564]

Many people talking about lightning strikes saying the odds are low, it won't happen to me, it won't be that bad, my home insurance will cover it, an LPS is expensive and won't prevent a strike anyway, etc.

Here's another way to think about it.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for homeowners insurance over the years and made only one claim. It was about 30 years ago and it was for damage from a lightning strike.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for car insurance over the years and can remember only two claims and one of those was for a broken windshield.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for health insurance over the years and other than regular doctor and dentist visits I have used very little of that.

A one-time $3,000 investment for an LPS to minimize the chance of being displaced by significant lightning damage seems like a much better deal than any of the other insurances I buy.

(DISCLAIMER: I do not actually have an LPS - I need to do something about that)

[jrref]

LPS will not DRAW a strike either. LPS are there to provide protection in case a strike occurs.



"Will have damage"? Is that speaking from experience or skepticism? Is the damage that "will" occur when lightning strikes a house with an LPS of the same magnitude as the damage that occurs when lightning strikes a house without an LPS?

There is an article from 2021 in the newspaper that shall not be named with the statement, "Over a dozen Villagers, with an LPS, have reported that their home was struck by lightning and in no case was there any fire or structural damage." No, that doesn't say there was no damage at all but I will take some singed shingles or burnt rods over the hole in the roof that was recently pictured in the same paper.

Thanks for referencing this article. What most people miss is usually the cause of major damage to your home from the lightning strike is from the fire caused by the strike. In many cases the homeowner was home and was able to call the fire department quickly and or take measures to mitigate it. In other cases where the home burned down it's usually becase the home was unoccupied and by the time neighbors saw the fire, it was too late. In the last storm we had, as mentioned, the home in Charlotte was significantly damaged where the other two strikes not as much. This is usually because lightning struck the home and any fire was extinguished by the heavy rain occuring at the time. This happend in a lightning strike in Fenney last year.

[spinner1001]

Actually, much is known about lightning and the effectiveness of lightning protection systems.

One of the misconceptions is that lightning protection systems do not work. They have proven effective for over 200 years and they do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the National Fire Protection Association-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2023 Edition. The Principles of Lightning Protection are discussed in Annex B.

Another reference is The Art & Science of Lightning Protection Systems, by Dr. Martin Uman, from the University of Florida who has been studying lightning for over four decades.

Also over the years there have been may studies that have proven the advocacy of LPS. One such study was conducted at the University of Florida's International Center for Lightning Research & Testing at Camp Blanding.

There are many other references and data.

As far as the newer systems which try and prevent a lightning strike, as some have commented, yes these devices are currently installed and being evaluated for their effectiveness. NASA has an elaborate setup at the cape.

You are talking about whether there is an effect of LPS. I am talking about the effect size of LPS. Knowing an effect and knowing an effect size are very different. For instance, do LPS lower the average likelihood of a lightning strike on a single-family home by 10% or 90%. This is an important question for insurance companies, mortgage lenders, home owners, and so on.

Effect != Effect size

If you have references to empirical evidence about the _effect size_ (i.e., magnitude of the effect) of LPS on structures in any quality scientific journal, please provide the references (i.e., name of journal, volume, issue, author, date) and I will read them. (A book is not a quality scientific journal.)

I don’t doubt there is an effect of LPS. I have a LPS. I would like to know the empirical evidence of the effect size of LPS on homes. I am skeptical strong evidence of the effect size exists.

[dewilson58]

Sometimes size does matter. In the case of a home getting hit by lightning with and without an LPS, size matters a great deal.


Mr. Bill.....................you seem to arguing with yourself.

:thumbup:

[jrref]

You are talking about whether there is an effect of LPS. I am talking about the effect size of LPS. Knowing an effect and knowing an effect size are very different. For instance, do LPS lower the average likelihood of a lightning strike on a single-family home by 10% or 90%. This is an important question for insurance companies, mortgage lenders, home owners, and so on.

Effect != Effect size

If you have references to empirical evidence about the _effect size_ (i.e., magnitude of the effect) of LPS on structures in any quality scientific journal, please provide the references (i.e., name of journal, volume, issue, author, date) and I will read them. (A book is not a quality scientific journal.)

I don’t doubt there is an effect of LPS. I have a LPS. I would like to know the empirical evidence of the effect size of LPS on homes. I am skeptical strong evidence of the effect size exists.

I'm not aware of any studies that claim their results showed having a LPS lowed the average likelihood of a lightning strike on a single-family home by "X" percent but it's a good point and will look into it.

Since lightning is unpredictible and you would have to have some system installed to monitor when a home with a LPS was actually hit, my "guess" is there is little data on this. The current "thinking" is that a LPS will limit or prevent significant damage to the structure if a lightnig strike occurs vs preventing a strike. As mentioned there are studies underway on systems to "prevent" lightning strikes as well.

Len Hathaway, the founder and leader of the Villages Lightning Study Group has a device installed on his LPS that will trigger when lightning strikes his system. No hits recorded yet. Unfortunately this device is expensive. Also, when a home with an LPS is hit, a thorough investigation would be needed to make sure the LPS was installed and maintained properly to weed out any faulty installations. As part of the maintenance, you need to check the validity of the grounding system on the LPS. I have a meter to check this. Typically, an LPS ground rod is driven 10-20 feet into the earth to get a good ground meaning a ohm rating low enough as specified by UL. In my home, Triangle had to drive the ground rods down 30 feet to get a ground that was in tolerance with the UL specification. Fortunately, the certified installers will do what is needed to get a good ground or the system will be ineffictive. We do have a case where a ground rod lost it's effectiveness for some unknown reason and had to be replaced. Fortunately, three to four ground rods are typically installed and every air terminal (lightning rod) has two paths to ground.

[backhoeken]

When and where will the next presentation be, and is the paper or detail finding of the study available for reading, or is this based off the 2021 study and related paper presented by Univ. of Central Florida

Thank you
Ken

[Slakeforest]

Is there a contractor that is recommended for lightning rods installation?

[Bill14564]

Is there a contractor that is recommended for lightning rods installation?

See Post #44 (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/2344185-post44.html)

[jedalton]

thanks

[Gettingoutofdodge]

I don’t believe there are any lightning systems installed in my immediate neighborhood. Most do have some type of surge protection. Maybe they are too expensive to install and maintain?

Last year a house was hit by lightening at 5775 Henry Loop in the Village of Linden Isle and it was totally destroyed. A few other houses were damaged by lightening but the damage was mainly to their electrical system. You can google this and see the damage.

I purchased lightening rods, had SECO put on a surge protector and added surge protector strips to my TVs and computer.

I went to the POA meeting on lightening and followed their advice. They recommended three companies. I went with A1. The lightening rods were $1600. The costs depends on your roof, added extensions and if you have gas. My friend had a gas pipe on her roof and that required an additional rod. Her cost was $2400. It is well worth the cost.

I live in Charlotte, a few blocks away from the house that was hit. The lightening that night was the worst I’ve ever experienced here. My heart goes out to these people.

Try to look up the POA meeting from last year or find the bulletin. Don’t believe rumors like if your neighbors house has rods, you’re protected. Get expert advice.

I felt safe knowing my house was protected. That protection was worth every penny.

[jrref]

Last year a house was hit by lightening at 5775 Henry Loop in the Village of Linden Isle and it was totally destroyed. A few other houses were damaged by lightening but the damage was mainly to their electrical system. You can google this and see the damage.

I purchased lightening rods, had SECO put on a surge protector and added surge protector strips to my TVs and computer.

I went to the POA meeting on lightening and followed their advice. They recommended three companies. I went with A1. The lightening rods were $1600. The costs depends on your roof, added extensions and if you have gas. My friend had a gas pipe on her roof and that required an additional rod. Her cost was $2400. It is well worth the cost.

I live in Charlotte, a few blocks away from the house that was hit. The lightening that night was the worst I’ve ever experienced here. My heart goes out to these people.

Try to look up the POA meeting from last year or find the bulletin. Don’t believe rumors like if your neighbors house has rods, you’re protected. Get expert advice.

I felt safe knowing my house was protected. That protection was worth every penny.

We just did a presentation at the last POA meeting. Although they didn't record it, they did record the presentation we made last year and you can see it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJMLyywdB0A
The presentation starts at 30:00.

[jrref]

Is there a contractor that is recommended for lightning rods installation?

A1 Ligthning Protection Services
Triangle Lightening Protection

Both UL Certified and LPI trained.

Just FYI, both companies will do the same quality work. A1 will come out to your home for an estimate, Triangle will do it over the phone by looking at your home using google maps or some similar system. Both companies have a long track record doing installations here in the Villages and both highly recommended because of their certifications, training and service to the community.

For primary surge protection, you can call Lenhart Electric and if you attended or viewed the presentation on lightning protection or found them here on ToTV, let them know and they will give you a discount. I'm not sure how much longer they will be offering the discount.

Hope this helps.

[Switter]

The house I bought was hit by lightning at some point while it was sitting on the market. It fried the control board in the furnace/AC unit.

I had the whole home surge protection installed when I moved in but I realized this is no guarantee of protection. When there is a storm coming, I unplugged my expensive things such as washer, dryer, and the two power strip that has all my electronics on it (entertainment center and computer desk). If it's really bad lightning, I will flip the switch on my furnace. Unfortunately, that still leaves my refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave, and stove plugged in. I'm not even sure that flipping the light switch for my furnace will completely prevent it. Can it arc across an open switch?

Someday may have a system installed so this is very good information being posted.

[Topspinmo]

Anybody hear the BIG boom lightning strike last night about 11 or so. It was close to me flash and bang was almost simultaneously. Looked on strike map had hit on CR42 in from of Phillips entry.

[Altavia]

Many people talking about lightning strikes saying the odds are low, it won't happen to me, it won't be that bad, my home insurance will cover it, an LPS is expensive and won't prevent a strike anyway, etc.

Here's another way to think about it.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for homeowners insurance over the years and made only one claim. It was about 30 years ago and it was for damage from a lightning strike.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for car insurance over the years and can remember only two claims and one of those was for a broken windshield.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for health insurance over the years and other than regular doctor and dentist visits I have used very little of that.

A one-time $3,000 investment for an LPS to minimize the chance of being displaced by significant lightning damage seems like a much better deal than any of the other insurances I buy.

(DISCLAIMER: I do not actually have an LPS - I need to do something about that)

We're on the same page except I've had a system installed :-)

As mentioned earlier The Villages installs LPS on critical infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, key buildings in the squares, fire stations, pump stations, etc. We all know they don't spend a dollar unnecessarily. ;-)

[Altavia]

Anybody hear the BIG boom lightning strike last night about 11 or so. It was close to me flash and bang was almost simultaneously. Looked on strike map had hit on CR42 in from of Phillips entry.

The recert house jarring lightening here is the worst I've experienced.

[Altavia]

The house I bought was hit by lightning at some point while it was sitting on the market. It fried the control board in the furnace/AC unit.

I had the whole home surge protection installed when I moved in but I realized this is no guarantee of protection. When there is a storm coming, I unplugged my expensive things such as washer, dryer, and the two power strip that has all my electronics on it (entertainment center and computer desk). If it's really bad lightning, I will flip the switch on my furnace. Unfortunately, that still leaves my refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave, and stove plugged in. I'm not even sure that flipping the light switch for my furnace will completely prevent it. Can it arc across an open switch?

Someday may have a system installed so this is very good information being posted.

Before having a system installed, ask to see few homes where they have done work.

An experienced installer is important along with one who has passed the UL certification training/exams.

Some do a better job of hiding view of the cables from the street.


...

[BigVin]

We had a LPS installed on our roof several years ago. It was probably one of the best things we ever did! Living here in the “Lightening Capital of America” it was just an added insurance for our peace of mind.

A few days ago, during the horrible lightening storm, I was cowering at home from the lightening and the non-stop thunder storming. It was truly frightening. I went to window several times (which I probably shouldn’t have) to see the action. The last time I looked, I saw a huge bolt of lightening followed immediately by a loud boom and a tinkling sound. I stepped away from the window and ran around the house to see which window broke. It happened to be a neighbor’s house across the street with a fire on their roof.
Thank God that the fire trucks were there quickly and efficiently putting out the fire tho not without damage to the roof and windows. Thank God everyone was safe!

Long story short, I thank God we installed our lightening rods or else it could’ve been us (it was that close!).

[Kenswing]

A villa home was destroyed last night by a fire caused from lightning.

[jrref]

Very interesting, 16 homes over how many years?

Did these protected home have any induced damage from the EMP?

You probably have better data. But assuming 70,000 homes in the Villages, and 7 home strikes a year, risk is in the 1/10,000 range?

Appreciate the knowledge you are sharing.

The data on the 16 homes with an LPS that believe they were hit is from 2007 to current. The homes all had surge protection to varying degrees. Some had no damage and some had some minor induced surge damage. Surge protection is not 100% and if the induced surge is large enough it can overwhelm the protection devices which is why a layered system gives you a better chance of surviving an significant event. What we have found is when a homeowner installs a lightning protection system they almost always spend the extra money to get Primary and Secondary surge protection. A reputable LPS installer will always evaluate your electrical system and recommend surge protection devices as needed even though they don't do that work.

As far as how many strikes per year in the Villages, Len has the latest data from the fire department and i'll ask him to post it. Its actually more than you would think because some strikes are mis-coded by the fire department and are listed as some other cause even though there were eye witnesses and other indications that the cause was lightning. Also with all the new building going on in the Villages, there are more habitable targets to hit where as before a strike might have been in an open field.

[jrref]

The house I bought was hit by lightning at some point while it was sitting on the market. It fried the control board in the furnace/AC unit.

I had the whole home surge protection installed when I moved in but I realized this is no guarantee of protection. When there is a storm coming, I unplugged my expensive things such as washer, dryer, and the two power strip that has all my electronics on it (entertainment center and computer desk). If it's really bad lightning, I will flip the switch on my furnace. Unfortunately, that still leaves my refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave, and stove plugged in. I'm not even sure that flipping the light switch for my furnace will completely prevent it. Can it arc across an open switch?

Someday may have a system installed so this is very good information being posted.

Interesting story. So the the Primary Surge protection installed at the circuit breaker panel will protect all the devices you mentioned. In addition, you can get a surge protector installed specifically for your HVAC and pool and spa equipment. This is the layered approach I've been talking about. But installing Primary surge protection at the circuit breaker panel using an Eaton Ultra for example by an electrician like Lenhart and if you get the protector at the meter by Seco, even better along with point of use protectors at your TV, computer, etc, will significantly increase the odds of NOT having any damage from an induced surge.

[jrref]

A villa home was destroyed last night by a fire caused from lightning.
Was this the one in Charlotte?

[jrref]

We had a LPS installed on our roof several years ago. It was probably one of the best things we ever did! Living here in the “Lightening Capital of America” it was just an added insurance for our peace of mind.

A few days ago, during the horrible lightening storm, I was cowering at home from the lightening and the non-stop thunder storming. It was truly frightening. I went to window several times (which I probably shouldn’t have) to see the action. The last time I looked, I saw a huge bolt of lightening followed immediately by a loud boom and a tinkling sound. I stepped away from the window and ran around the house to see which window broke. It happened to be a neighbor’s house across the street with a fire on their roof.
Thank God that the fire trucks were there quickly and efficiently putting out the fire tho not without damage to the roof and windows. Thank God everyone was safe!

Long story short, I thank God we installed our lightening rods or else it could’ve been us (it was that close!).

Is it possible to PM me the address or tell us which Village this happened in so the study group can log it? We can check the fire department records to make sure it was coded properly.

[Kenswing]

Was this the one in Charlotte?
No. It was up in the Spanish Springs area just south of Rio Grande.

[jrref]

Just wanted to say that this thread has a lot of good discussion and I hope we helped those who wanted to know more about lightning and power surge protection regardless whether they are planning on getting a system or not.

What's important to the Villages Lightning Study Group is that everyon have the facts so they can make an informed decision based on their individual tolerance for risk and based on their specific situation vs someone with no experience saying these systems don't work.

Although our fire and police and other first responders are critical to our safety and great people, they are not all trained in some of these topics. Becasue of this the study group has given presentations to some of our first responders but not everyone is trained so if you have questions please reach out to us and we can provide whatever factual and actual case information that we have collected specifically here in the Villages on the topic.

[Lightning]

I would like to see a discussion of lightning protection (sharp pointy objects) on your roof, versus the devices SECO uses at some of their substations, these look like a large Dandelion bloom. I worked in this industry and these are designed to DISSIPATE the charge and avoid the lightning strike. Sharpe pointed objects then at ATTRACT lightning strikes. These are applied to ATTRACT the strike to the protective wiring and away from the roof. May point is why not have the devices that dissipate the charge installed?
Looking forward to an interesting discussion.

The national standard on lightning that has been adopted by many states and federal government entities only recognizes tradition lighting systems as addressed in NFPA-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2023 Edition. Non-standard systems based on early streamer, charge transfer, and dissipating array concepts are not recognized. As discussed in Dr. Martin Unman's book The Art and Science of Lightning Protection. there is no evidence that non-standard systems work as advertised.

[Lightning]

[QUOTE=MidWestIA;2344117]My friend had a lightning rod it got hit and started a fire in the attic[/ youQUOTE]
Could provide more details. Where and when did this happen? Was there a failure of the gas line in the attic caused by a direct or indirect lightning strike?. Was the gas line grounded at the manifold and at the entry point into the home? Was the system installed by a UL listed firm that employs Master Installers who have passed the requirements of the Lightning Protection Institute? Was the system maintained as called for in NFPA-780 the national standard on lightning? Was any qualified expert called in to investigate the failure?

[susankchittum@gmail.com]

During the recent storm we had Friday night into Saturday morning three homes in the Villages were struck by lightning. One serious with a fire and the other two no fire.

Too see and read the article on the terrible strike in Charlotte Google "lightning-strike-punches-hole-in-roof-of-home-in-the-villages" and click on the first article by the Villages News too see all the pictures.

Lightning is unpredictable and it looks like these people are not going to be living in their home for a while since there are probably not a lot of contractors waiting around to rush and repair this home and it takes a while for the Insurance to assess and pay for the damages. I'm also assuming with a strike this large that several neighbors around this home had major power surge damage to their electronic devices and appliances.

The reason why I'm posting this is because we live in one of the lightning capitals of the world due to our proximity to the east and west coast weather here in Florida. Random lightning strikes is something we need to live with, especially with all the new homes. Last year a lightning strike in one of the new areas would have occured in a field. Today, there is a home there.

The Villages Lightning Study Group has been giving free community service non-commercial educational presentations in The Villages on lightning since 2009. They address personnel lightning safety indoors and out, surge protection, lightning protection systems (LPS), and dispel many of the myths and misunderstandings about lightning.

One of the misconceptions they dispel is that lightning protection systems do not work. Lightning protection systems have been proven effective for over 200 years and they do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the National Fire Protection Association-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2023 Edition. The Principles of Lightning Protection are discussed in Annex B. They also suggest that only firms listed by UL with craftsmen who have met the Master Installer criteria of the Lighting Protection Institute be considered when selecting a contractor.

Another reference used in their presentations is The Art & Science of Lightning Protection Systems, by Dr. Martin Uman, from the University of Florida who has been studying lightning for over four decades.

Over the years there have been may studies that have proven the advocacy of LPS. One such study was conducted at the University of Florida's International Center for Lightning Research & Testing at Camp Blanding.

Lightning Protection Systems are used world-wide and locally have been installed on all water & sewage stations, every building in Sumter Landing including your former retail store, all the sales centers, the Sharon, Savannah Center, most churches, the new schools, the hospitals, the developer's own homes, and many Villagers have chosen to protect their own residence.

I mention this NOT to sell Lightning Protection and power surge systems but to make everyone aware that there are free presentations being given in the Villages giving the facts so homeowners can make a more informed decision based on their tolerance for risk and their specific situation. Nothing man made is 100% effective but there is a good chance if these homeowners had a Lightning Protection System installed by a certified UL listed company that they may have been spared this unfortunate event.

Our villa in Dunedin was struck by lightning 3 years ago, made a shoebox-size hole in the roof. We were out of state, our neighbor called us, my husband flew in the next day, and the following day a roofer was out to assess the damage and cover the roof until repairs could be made. An electrician came out the same day to replace the thermostat and get the a/c running again. We had NO problem getting contractors to respond in an emergency.

[Altavia]

Just wanted to say that this thread has a lot of good discussion and I hope we helped those who wanted to know more about lightning and power surge protection regardless whether they are planning on getting a system or not.

What's important to the Villages Lightning Study Group is that everyone have the facts so they can make an informed decision based on their individual tolerance for risk and based on their specific situation vs someone with no experience saying these systems don't work.

Although our fire and police and other first responders are critical to our safety and great people, they are not all trained in some of these topics.

Becasue of this the study group has given presentations to some of our first responders but not everyone is trained so if you have questions please reach out to us and we can provide whatever factual and actual case information that we have collected specifically here in the Villages on the topic.

Very helpful info for a highly complex topic - thanks!


Good idea to help educate first responders. (At an incident near us, a fire fighter was quoted to say lighting rods don't work.)

[Lightning]

LPS will NOT prevent a strike.

If you have a LPS & you have a strike, you will have damage.

Please provided supporting evidence to back up your statement. Science and the history of lightning protection shows otherwise.

[Lightning]

LPS will not DRAW a strike either. LPS are there to provide protection in case a strike occurs.



"Will have damage"? Is that speaking from experience or skepticism? Is the damage that "will" occur when lightning strikes a house with an LPS of the same magnitude as the damage that occurs when lightning strikes a house without an LPS?

There is an article from 2021 in the newspaper that shall not be named with the statement, "Over a dozen Villagers, with an LPS, have reported that their home was struck by lightning and in no case was there any fire or structural damage." No, that doesn't say there was no damage at all but I will take some singed shingles or burnt rods over the hole in the roof that was recently pictured in the same paper.

There was no structural damage reported but some experienced damage to electronics because they did not have complete surge protection. None reported the things you mention.

[Altavia]

FYI/If I understand correctly, the manufacturer of CCST is recommending consideration LPS in lightening prone areas?

Depending upon conditions specific to the location of the structure in which the Gastite system is being installed, including but not limited to whether the area is prone to lightning, the owner of the structure should consider whether a lightning protection system is necessary or appropriate.

Maybe The Villages should consider offering/including a LPS for homes with gas lines in the attic as recommended by the gas line manufacturer.

...

[Grinchie]

What a great thread! Thank you, to all the posters; I learned so much & will investigate surge protectors & system.
(Currently, I just unplug appliances & computers.) Y’all did an awesome job - I Appreciate the lesson.

[jrref]

Our villa in Dunedin was struck by lightning 3 years ago, made a shoebox-size hole in the roof. We were out of state, our neighbor called us, my husband flew in the next day, and the following day a roofer was out to assess the damage and cover the roof until repairs could be made. An electrician came out the same day to replace the thermostat and get the a/c running again. We had NO problem getting contractors to respond in an emergency.

I'm glad that all worked out for you. So, clean-up, tarp on the roof, whatever is needed to stabilize the home is done immediately by your insurance company. The strike in Fenney last year was like yours, minor damage to the structure but a lot of damage to the HVAC and electronics in the home. Fire department tarped the small hole in the roof and the homeowner got everything repaired in a couple of weeks time.

I was addressing situations where the home has major damage like the one recently in Charlotte or if the home burns down to the ground. Construction of that magnitude takes time to settle with your insurance company and you need to engage many construction trades to repair your home. As mentioned, speaking first hand to some people here in the Villages who have had significant damage, it can take up to a year to repair everything and get back into the home.

[jrref]

In the Villages News this morning:
>>>
Firefighters from The Villages Public Safety Department stopped the spread of a blaze to other units after a lightning strike at a courtyard villa. Units from the fire department were called at 11:47 p.m. Monday to the home at 1336 La Jolla Circle in the Rio Grande Villas near the Rio Grande Family Pool.
It is the second major fire ignited by lightning within a week in The Villages. The other fire was in the Village of Charlotte.
<<<

google "1336 La Jolla Circle in the Rio Grande Villas" to see the pictures and the article.

[djlnc]

I was curious about these CMCE lightning 'suppression' gadgets so I looked around and found this lengthy video about them. They seem to be in use and accepted. I understand the idea of neutralizing the charge - at least in the immediate area of the device, but they claim coverage up to 100 meters. Does it seem feasible that it can suck in ions from such an area? See what you think...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRqY_QZaFGQ

[mrf0151]

Is there a contractor that is recommended for lightning rods installation?

Most definitely Danny Mack with A-1 Lightening. He did ours with full copper 3 years ago. Highest quality materials and was the best price by far.
Seems to be a lot of experts chiming in here. This is his field of expertise, and he will give you if you want, quite an education.

[ElDiabloJoe]

I use the Lightning app on my iPhone. Icon is a black bolt on a yellow background. Does a great job of letting me know where lightning is hitting in a miles-wide radius and you can zoom in to see almost exactly where the hits are. Great for watching the progress of a storm also as the clusters of lightning show the directionality of the storm.

No, not the developer nor do I receive any commission on the app. Besides, it's free.

[Susan Garbarino]

You are absolutely correct. When lightning strikes anything, home, tree, ground, etc, meaning cloud to ground strike, we always hear a loud bang depending on how close it is to our house. But if it hits an object we usually see a fire and that tells us what happened. On the other hand if your home had a LPS for example, and lightning hit and was safely shunted to ground, unless you were actually standing outside your house at that moment, you would not know what actually happened. The Villages Lightning Study Group has I believe 16 documented cases of homes that the owners believed were hit by lightning. From one we have the damaged lightning rod, and in the others there was some evidence of the grounding cable getting hot and scortching a bush branch touching the wire.

Where can I find the date and location of the next presentation by your club, please?

[Bill14564]

Where can I find the date and location of the next presentation by your club, please?

Post #55 might help.

[jrref]

Where can I find the date and location of the next presentation by your club, please?

We just did one at that last POA meeting. They didn't record it but here is last years meeting. Basically the same presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJMLyywdB0A&t=1686s

[EviesGP]

3 Neighbors were hit on Friday night. Next door had their lamppost hit, and irrigation controller zapped. 2 doors down killed both their TVs, fridge, and garage door opener. 3 doors down, she lost an electric recliner. We got lucky. I'm going to look into the surge protector at the meter.

[Altavia]

We just did one at that last POA meeting. They didn't record it but here is last years meeting. Basically the same presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJMLyywdB0A&t=1686s

Is the presentation available?

[RobertScott]

Sadly one result of this thread is that A1 must be buried, as I contacted them on their website a few days ago with no response.

[Altavia]

Sadly one result of this thread is that A1 must be buried, as I contacted them on their website a few days ago with no response.

Try John Sherlock (he may be retired by now).

(407) 552-2283
(317) 478-3286
1-888-670-0781


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