At what point does debt become unsustainable?

[Rainger99]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

I am glad that I am not graduating high school this year.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

[Two Bills]

Income $10. Outgoings $9. = Happiness.

Income $10. Outgoings $11 = Penury.

Simple.

[golfing eagles]

At what point does debt become unsustainable?

Ask the Greeks.

[retiredguy123]

At what point does debt become unsustainable?

Ask the Greeks.
Correct. But, the Greek debt could be bailed out by other countries. Our debt is too large to be bailed out by anyone.

[Papa_lecki]

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”


I am pretty sure there are plenty of other places in the federal budget to cut than SS and health insurance. There are a lot of government departments and programs to look at first.
Maybe slow down on foreign aid?

[Rainger99]

Income $10. Outgoings $9. = Happiness.

Income $10. Outgoings $11 = Penury.

Simple.

One of my favorite quotes! Although my wife is tired of me quoting it.

[ThirdOfFive]

Correct. But, the Greek debt could be bailed out by other countries. Our debt is too large to be bailed out by anyone.
I agree that nobody is going to bail us out as a country. But there is another aspect of this that seems troubling. We are The United STATES of America. Media always emphasizes the doom-and-gloom aspects of everything, so we automatically have to wonder if what we're hearing is the truth, but we're hearing more and more about this-or-that large northern city or coastal state spending themselves to the verge of bankruptcy.

So...who bails out said cities or states when they DO eventually tumble off that particular precipice?

[retiredguy123]

I agree that nobody is going to bail us out as a country. But there is another aspect of this that seems troubling. We are The United STATES of America. Media always emphasizes the doom-and-gloom aspects of everything, so we automatically have to wonder if what we're hearing is the truth, but we're hearing more and more about this-or-that large northern city or coastal state spending themselves to the verge of bankruptcy.

So...who bails out said cities or states when they DO eventually tumble off that particular precipice?
I thought that already happened in Detroit and Stockton. I just assumed that the Federal Government is bailing them out, but they don't want the public to know about it.

[dewilson58]

No need to pay it back.

30% of US debt is held overseas............if it's not paid back......the countries will survive. They are holding the debt..........it's really not "in the system".

Another ~30% is held by "US government". SSA, Federal Reserve, Retirement Agencies. Just "print money" when & if the funds are needed if the agency can not redefine.

The last ~40% is held by US individuals and institutions. As individuals die, right off the debt.....no passing to next generation. For institutions, write off 10% per year.

Flush the toilet.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Stu from NYC]

We are getting closer and closer to disaster. Interest on the debt is getting unsustainable.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Interesting article on global debt.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

neither a financial expert, nor an economist, just another poster with opinions who posts. :rant-rave:

As long as the country can afford the interest payment, and can refinance/ rollover the principal, all its good. . remember that the US government is not the same as a commercial / private lender. that being said, as long as the USD is strong, money will keep flowing in from international lenders to the US GOVT. . its not all about the US citizens buying the US GOVT debt. However, if the US economy starts to tank in big terms, and the treasury funding is having a hard time selling the debt at the same or lower interest rate, then there will be a problem.

The key is to keep inflation low, which favors saving vs buying because prices are constantly increasing quickly. . and keeping the better economy amongst all the others, doesn't have to be great, just better than the alternatives.

When a bear attacks, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just not the last/slowest runner. . ie, better to panic early and be skeptical than oblivious. .

[PugMom]

ever since i began paying attention to politics in my 20's, i've always heard the warnings on national debt. it never seems to get better, only much worse. will it ever end?

[PugMom]

Correct. But, the Greek debt could be bailed out by other countries. Our debt is too large to be bailed out by anyone.

i bet the Saudis could do it

[PugMom]

I agree that nobody is going to bail us out as a country. But there is another aspect of this that seems troubling. We are The United STATES of America. Media always emphasizes the doom-and-gloom aspects of everything, so we automatically have to wonder if what we're hearing is the truth, but we're hearing more and more about this-or-that large northern city or coastal state spending themselves to the verge of bankruptcy.

So...who bails out said cities or states when they DO eventually tumble off that particular precipice?

who else? we the taxpayers

[ThirdOfFive]

who else? we the taxpayers
Scary. Especially to those of us for whom one of the reasons for moving here was to escape those cities/states spending themselves into oblivion.

A taxpayer bailout only encourages more of the same.

[retiredguy123]

i bet the Saudis could do it
No way. Saudi Arabia's GDP is only about $2 trillion. The U.S. GDP is $28 trillion and our debt is $34 trillion.

[tophcfa]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

I am glad that I am not graduating high school this year.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

Perhaps the relevant question is, “has the national debt ALREADY reached an unsustainable level”? There is absolutely no doubt the debt level will reach unsustainable levels if we continue on the current course.

[Topspinmo]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

I am glad that I am not graduating high school this year

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

When can no longer print worthless paper money. :welcome:

[Topspinmo]

Income $10. Outgoings $9. = Happiness.

Income $10. Outgoings $11 = Penury.

Simple.

Well my formula income 4 dollars outgoing 10 dollars which current track IMO.

[MikeVillages]

If you are unable to pay off your credit cards every month.
When you have loans other then your home mortgage.

[jimbomaybe]

I thought that already happened in Detroit and Stockton. I just assumed that the Federal Government is bailing them out, but they don't want the public to know about it.
Both went through bankruptcy, only place a bankruptcy can be done is federal court, employees took a hair cut, but did not do too badly, no federal money to bail them out. But the numbers were not that large. Other municipalities and states have much larger unfunded liabilities, my understanding is the real danger is that of a cascading effect, a large enough default could start a chain reaction that could take the whole economy down.

[justjim]

While traveling this week we pulled into a McDonald’s just off the Interstate. Nobody to wait on you at the counter - please use kiosk sign. There was a line of about 12 - 14 cars in the drive-thru. On the counter next to the register was a rather large sign. “Sorry for the inconvenience. We need 10 employees immediately will train $15 hour starting wage no experience required.” We waited for food/beverages about 20 minutes after ordering on the Kiosk. 1. There is a serious workforce shortage. Plenty of jobs but nobody to fill them. 2. Apparently it is better for many not to work because child care and medical is so expensive. 3. 1% and 2% wage earners pay proportionately less taxes than do middle class wage earners. 4. Congress cannot compromise for the good of the Country as was done in the past. All of this contributes to spending more dollars than is taking in. No political references intended as there is plenty of blame to go around.

[Boomer]

So?

Any old, or almost old, regular citizen who is convinced the aged will not be the first to go is naive — and/or has lost the ability to think critically.

A Plutocracy will take out SS and Medicare, whether it be slice by slice or with a cleaver.

Plutocrats do not need SS and Medicare. But they never seem to have enough money. Given full reign, Plutocrats will never sacrifice themselves, not even just a little bit, which is pretty much all it would take.

Think!

Boomer — one of about 73 million Boomers still here.

Boomer$: The Pig in the Python……..Hard to miss. And Plutocrats will not miss.

[MightyDog]

Maybe slow down on foreign aid?
Particularly since, unbeknownst to most taxpayers, a hefty portion of that foreign aid swings back around and goes into the pockets of the U.S. legislators that approved the aid.

One of the many ways some Congress critters increase their net worth substantially after being elected. Not to mention that the leaders of the, usually, Third World countries receiving the aid also siphoning a chunk for themselves.

[golfing eagles]

When can no longer print worthless paper money. :welcome:

I don't know where people get that idea from. We don't just print up extra money---we BORROW it---mostly from ourselves, some from other countries. Last I heard it was 15% international ownership---someone above posted 30%---it may have reached that by now. But the concept that someone in the Bureau of Printing and Engraving is working the presses overtime is nonsense

[golfing eagles]

While traveling this week we pulled into a McDonald’s just off the Interstate. Nobody to wait on you at the counter - please use kiosk sign. There was a line of about 12 - 14 cars in the drive-thru. On the counter next to the register was a rather large sign. “Sorry for the inconvenience. We need 10 employees immediately will train $15 hour starting wage no experience required.” We waited for food/beverages about 20 minutes after ordering on the Kiosk. 1. There is a serious workforce shortage. Plenty of jobs but nobody to fill them. 2. Apparently it is better for many not to work because child care and medical is so expensive. 3. 1% and 2% wage earners pay proportionately less taxes than do middle class wage earners. 4. Congress cannot compromise for the good of the Country as was done in the past. All of this contributes to spending more dollars than is taking in. No political references intended as there is plenty of blame to go around.

If you think the top 1 or 2% pay LESS than the "middle class", you're dreaming. Remember, 47% contribute NOTHING. The top 1% pay 10% of tax and the top 10% pay 60%. But if anyone thinks the "middle" pays less, bring on the flat income tax----tomorrow.

[retiredguy123]

If you think the top 1 or 2% pay LESS than the "middle class", you're dreaming. Remember, 47% contribute NOTHING. The top 1% pay 10% of tax and the top 10% pay 60%. But if anyone thinks the "middle" pays less, bring on the flat income tax----tomorrow.
Correct. And, I wish someone would tell me how to take advantage of these so-called tax loopholes to avoid taxes. My Federal income tax payments exceed everything else I spend money on combined.

[MightyDog]

If you think the top 1 or 2% pay LESS than the "middle class", you're dreaming. Remember, 47% contribute NOTHING. The top 1% pay 10% of tax and the top 10% pay 60%. But if anyone thinks the "middle" pays less, bring on the flat income tax----tomorrow.
It's a mental shell game that certain politicians like to play. They harp about the sometimes lower tax rate paid by high earners while not mentioning the total dollar amount they pay in taxes. Weak minds believe the spin.

Good info here: Who Pays Federal Income Taxes? Latest Federal Income Tax Data (https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/)

[MightyDog]

Correct. And, I wish someone would tell me how to take advantage of these so-called tax loopholes to avoid taxes. My Federal income tax payments exceed everything else I spend money on combined.
Are you willing to UNretire, part time? If so, I have ideas for you.

[Stu from NYC]

It's a mental shell game that certain politicians like to play. They harp about the sometimes lower tax rate paid by high earners while not mentioning the total dollar amount they pay in taxes. Weak minds believe the spin.

Good info here: Who Pays Federal Income Taxes? Latest Federal Income Tax Data (https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/)

And sadly they get reelected over and over

[Plinker]

If you think the top 1 or 2% pay LESS than the "middle class", you're dreaming. Remember, 47% contribute NOTHING. The top 1% pay 10% of tax and the top 10% pay 60%. But if anyone thinks the "middle" pays less, bring on the flat income tax----tomorrow.

Don’t forget, the business owner pays double into social security with no extra benefits.

If your credit card limit is $10,000 and you carry a $9,900 balance, you call the issuer and ask for an increase to $15,000. This cycle will repeat until you are denied another increase. If approved, are you better off? Of course not. You will fall deeper and deeper into debt hell. At some point the interest on the debt will consume so much of your income that you will fall behind on true necessities such as food and shelter.

Obviously, our government plays by a completely different set of rules.
However, there are similarities. At what point does the national debt become unsustainable? IMO we are there now or certainly knocking on the door. What services will be cut or disappear? Will it be the military, social security, healthcare? The list is endless. Our legislators can’t simply tax their way out of this.

How many times have we heard that the “rich” must pay their fair share? Unfortunately, these people never define exactly what fair share is. The Laffer Curve is an attempt to determine the maximum amount of taxation that can be levied before a decision is made by an individual or business that it’s simply not worth the effort to generate additional income. The answer varies between 50% and 70%. In other words, why would I work extra hard and additional hours to make an additional $100,000 if the government takes away $70,000 of it?

Also, don’t forget the insane pension liabilities that will throw fuel on the fire of fiscal incompetence.

[MightyDog]

And sadly they get reelected over and over
Well, we have had huge election "problems" for quite a long time. Too many Americans seem to want to stay in denial about that. So, they get who they are 'given'.

[GoRedSox!]

While traveling this week we pulled into a McDonald’s just off the Interstate. Nobody to wait on you at the counter - please use kiosk sign. There was a line of about 12 - 14 cars in the drive-thru. On the counter next to the register was a rather large sign. “Sorry for the inconvenience. We need 10 employees immediately will train $15 hour starting wage no experience required.” We waited for food/beverages about 20 minutes after ordering on the Kiosk. 1. There is a serious workforce shortage. Plenty of jobs but nobody to fill them. 2. Apparently it is better for many not to work because child care and medical is so expensive. 3. 1% and 2% wage earners pay proportionately less taxes than do middle class wage earners. 4. Congress cannot compromise for the good of the Country as was done in the past. All of this contributes to spending more dollars than is taking in. No political references intended as there is plenty of blame to go around.We can see to a large degree what has happened with our own two eyes. Yes, there is a labor shortage, not only for McDonalds, but in an entire wide range of professions. Including law enforcement officers, doctors, nurses, home care workers, pilots, the list goes on and on.

The pandemic had a big impact on this. We lost 1 million people to the pandemic, and tens of millions more got sick. I don't want to argue whether all the people actually died of COVID or with COVID, there were millions of "excess deaths" above the normal trend line....argue if you want, but it was significant enough to lower average life expectancy by more than a year in this country. Folks were locked down and had plenty of time to think about their lives. Many families decided that living life to the fullest was more important than making as much money as they could. Lots of families decided to downsize and do with less in order to have one parent stay at home with kids. There were millions of "excess retirements," i.e. the number of retirements exceeded the normal trend line by millions. Folks saw that life can change on a dime and decided enough was enough. Look how many early retirements are apparent in The Villages. The result is that we have far more job openings in this country than the number of unemployed workers. 4% unemployment is what the economists call "full employment."

I don't think it's going to change anytime soon and will likely get worse. The next three years are the peak of the Baby Boomer turning 65. Through 2027, 11,300 people will turn 65 in this country every single day. Some may stay in the labor force, but most will leave it. Meanwhile, we have a birth rate that is at its lowest in 100 years. We do not have enough births in this country to match the number of deaths. Without immigration, our country's population would go down every year.

Finally, and this is really not political but a fact, there are some jobs that Americans either can't or won't do. 80% of the workers on farms are foreign born. We need people to harvest our crops, vegetables, fruits and nuts. According to farmers in many parts of the country, Americans won't do this backbreaking work regardless of pay. There are other occupations as well with very few American-born workers.

[Stu from NYC]

Well, we have had huge election "problems" for quite a long time. Too many Americans seem to want to stay in denial about that. So, they get who they are 'given'.

Actually we get who we vote for over and over again.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

No need to pay it back.

30% of US debt is held overseas............if it's not paid back......the countries will survive. They are holding the debt..........it's really not "in the system".

Another ~30% is held by "US government". SSA, Federal Reserve, Retirement Agencies. Just "print money" when & if the funds are needed if the agency can not redefine.

The last ~40% is held by US individuals and institutions. As individuals die, right off the debt.....no passing to next generation. For institutions, write off 10% per year.

Flush the toilet.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
This the thinking that got us into inflationary problems.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Particularly since, unbeknownst to most taxpayers, a hefty portion of that foreign aid swings back around and goes into the pockets of the U.S. legislators that approved the aid.

One of the many ways some Congress critters increase their net worth substantially after being elected. Not to mention that the leaders of the, usually, Third World countries receiving the aid also siphoning a chunk for themselves.

Why do you think politicians leave office richer than they were when going in?

[MightyDog]

Actually we get who we vote for over and over again.
In many, many cases, not so.

The election problems are legion, have been for a long time and are ongoing, as previously stated. There is MUCH information about it easily findable online.

[MightyDog]

Why do you think politicians leave office richer than they were when going in?
Access to inside information and access to giant Govt coffers with one method being the one I mentioned above.

Some clever types even created an ETF that tracks primarily the trades of the former Speaker of the House - she's done so very well in the market for years (inside info). An ETF that tracks the stock trades of Democrats in Congress has been beating the S&P 500 on the strength of Magnificent 7 tech bets (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/etf-tracks-stock-trades-democrats-010207373.html)

This thread is going to get shut down soon! :$: We're venturing into verboten land.

[Topspinmo]

Correct. And, I wish someone would tell me how to take advantage of these so-called tax loopholes to avoid taxes. My Federal income tax payments exceed everything else I spend money on combined.

Who writes tax laws? lawyers, they write in those loopholes that only they can cash in on. common people have to follow the lopsided law. Just like inheritance tax, taxing stuff that taxes was ALL ready paid on. Legalize stealing.

[MorTech]

We will all pay with higher debt default called inflation like we have now. The only way out of their counterfeit money racket is thru self-custody Bitcoin. The young will be forced via poverty/survival pressure to figure that out.

[jimbomaybe]

No need to pay it back.

30% of US debt is held overseas............if it's not paid back......the countries will survive. They are holding the debt..........it's really not "in the system".

Another ~30% is held by "US government". SSA, Federal Reserve, Retirement Agencies. Just "print money" when & if the funds are needed if the agency can not redefine.

The last ~40% is held by US individuals and institutions. As individuals die, right off the debt.....no passing to next generation. For institutions, write off 10% per year.

Flush the toilet.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Aside from the fact that that is illegal it would throw the credit markets into chaos, the credit rating would be such that interest rates for government backed securities explode upward if in fact anyone would buy them

[Two Bills]

So easy to budget when all there was, was cash.
Budget was balanced when pockets and wallet were empty!

[Caymus]

While traveling this week we pulled into a McDonald’s just off the Interstate. Nobody to wait on you at the counter - please use kiosk sign. There was a line of about 12 - 14 cars in the drive-thru. On the counter next to the register was a rather large sign. “Sorry for the inconvenience. We need 10 employees immediately will train $15 hour starting wage no experience required.” We waited for food/beverages about 20 minutes after ordering on the Kiosk. 1. There is a serious workforce shortage. Plenty of jobs but nobody to fill them. 2. Apparently it is better for many not to work because child care and medical is so expensive. 3. 1% and 2% wage earners pay proportionately less taxes than do middle class wage earners. 4. Congress cannot compromise for the good of the Country as was done in the past. All of this contributes to spending more dollars than is taking in. No political references intended as there is plenty of blame to go around.

Seems that they should raise prices enough to reduce the number of cars to 6 to 8.

[CybrSage]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

The problem is you are trusting CNN to tell you the truth and not just be lying again about "death and destruction in 30 years".

Humans have died out of suffered world wide disaster many times in my lifetime, according to CNN experts.

[Ashley from UK]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

My PhD is based on debt so I feel I am reasonably qualified to answer this.

If you want to predict the future study the past. In this respect the answer can be found in David Graeber’s anthropological book DEBT The First 5000 years. Its worth a read and shows how debt has formed our history. The impact of debt is far reaching from politics, war, rape, slavery, treason and uprisings. When debt becomes too great people become poor, disillusioned with their leaders/the system and then there’s an uprising. Countries keep printing money to get over the short term problem but debt has to be repaid or deflated. You also need a catalyst. The banking crisis was the start, Covid was the next. We just need a change in climate that wrecks food stocks for a year or two and cause inflation (in Europe we have this with the war in Ukraine).

Add to this tax systems and changing demographics around the world. The western nations are getting older with promises of early retirement, people living longer and ring fenced state pensions vs market based private pensions. Assets bought over the past 40 years were purchased on supply and demand, but in the long run will depreciate. This will cause future pensions to decrease. Maybe people will work longer… but this will create a young/old, and public/private pension divide.

Hard choices and a REAL risk of a world war is coming. 15 to 20 years max. Then we’ll see the great re-distribution that is muted. Debt will end up being written off and the ultra wealthy will be brought down a peg. This will be at both personal AND national level as we see a redistribution of global powers.

So tips. Putin threw the first stone after Covid. China I think is sitting watching and waiting for the west to deplete its cash, exceed its ability to repay debt, and then it will strike… maybe Taiwan, more likely via a financial war that crashes markets and destabilise economies, cause internal conflict to weaken a nation (sorry guys - I’m a Brit looking at you, and your falling into this trap). Too much debt - internal political polarisation and internal hatred = recipe for cicil strive).

What I agree with the author of this thread, thank god we are old. Make the most of the next 10 years, be wary about the following decade, and remember this prediction in the 3rd - if we are still around and haven’t nuked, starved or fallen into anarchy as Darwins theory of survival of the fittest applies.

Sorry no good news from me, other than make the most of every day. Taking a lead from Peter Sellers Being There - Summer is over, we are heading into mid autumn, winter is coming - and from it will come spring, summer and a repeat…..

[dewilson58]

This the thinking that got us into inflationary problems.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

We can see to a large degree what has happened with our own two eyes. Yes, there is a labor shortage, not only for McDonalds, but in an entire wide range of professions. Including law enforcement officers, doctors, nurses, home care workers, pilots, the list goes on and on.

The pandemic had a big impact on this. We lost 1 million people to the pandemic, and tens of millions more got sick. I don't want to argue whether all the people actually died of COVID or with COVID, there were millions of "excess deaths" above the normal trend line....argue if you want, but it was significant enough to lower average life expectancy by more than a year in this country. Folks were locked down and had plenty of time to think about their lives. Many families decided that living life to the fullest was more important than making as much money as they could. Lots of families decided to downsize and do with less in order to have one parent stay at home with kids. There were millions of "excess retirements," i.e. the number of retirements exceeded the normal trend line by millions. Folks saw that life can change on a dime and decided enough was enough. Look how many early retirements are apparent in The Villages. The result is that we have far more job openings in this country than the number of unemployed workers. 4% unemployment is what the economists call "full employment."

I don't think it's going to change anytime soon and will likely get worse. The next three years are the peak of the Baby Boomer turning 65. Through 2027, 11,300 people will turn 65 in this country every single day. Some may stay in the labor force, but most will leave it. Meanwhile, we have a birth rate that is at its lowest in 100 years. We do not have enough births in this country to match the number of deaths. Without immigration, our country's population would go down every year.

Finally, and this is really not political but a fact, there are some jobs that Americans either can't or won't do. 80% of the workers on farms are foreign born. We need people to harvest our crops, vegetables, fruits and nuts. According to farmers in many parts of the country, Americans won't do this backbreaking work regardless of pay. There are other occupations as well with very few American-born workers.

Decent analysis and true to the extent that there were early retirements and families that due to the cost of daycare realized that they could survive on one income. However, whether you believe that 1 million deaths were due to as opposed to with COVID, the overwhelming majority of those people were not in and would never be in the workforce.

[waterflower]

The first problem is a printing machine/computer generated fiat money. The 2nd problem is the world economic forum, the 3rd and most important problem is we allow these criminals to rule the world. The economic reset is coming. Hold on tight.

[dewilson58]

..................... The economic reset is coming. Hold on tight.

The padded coffin will hold me tight.

[opinionist]

"The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses."

Bill Holter says we have maybe 90 days before it all crashes down.

[opinionist]

"What are the solutions?"

You may not like the solution.

Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D5HPMHPV?asc_source=01H8HFYCRM99TJ9FED7FSB1ZXC&tag=namespacebran689-20)

[rsmurano]

A couple of things I noticed:
Nobody has read the book “The creature from Jekyll Island” which goes over all of this and explains how the monetary system of the world was created, how it works, and how most loans to countries go into default but the same country that defaults gets a brand new loan; and the other thing:
Who listens to cnn?

This is a really good book that explains how the United States financial system was created, how it’s been operating for decades and how we influence the world monetary system.
We don’t have to look globally for debt issues. Individual debt in this country has reached over $1T and is not letting up. Look how many people in the states default on their bank card debt but can turnaround and get a home loan or another credit card.

[dewilson58]

Aside from the fact that that is illegal ..................

Jus make it legal. :what:

[ThirdOfFive]

Finally, and this is really not political but a fact, there are some jobs that Americans either can't or won't do. 80% of the workers on farms are foreign born. We need people to harvest our crops, vegetables, fruits and nuts. According to farmers in many parts of the country, Americans won't do this backbreaking work regardless of pay. There are other occupations as well with very few American-born workers.[/QUOTE]


I was thinking yesterday (appropriate for the day, I guess) about "The Greatest Generation"; the Americans who survived the Great Depression, fought with our allies in WW 2, and later helped America become the greatest economic powerhouse that this planet has yet seen. I remember Mom talking about how people pulled together during the depression, in particular a time when my grandmother was too ill to do what needed to be done, and a neighbor (Irene) doing their laundry. Doesn't sound like much except that Irene lived over 1.5 miles away and walked to my Mom's house, carried the laundry back to her house to do with hers, washed, dried and folded it, and returned the laundry in the same way. Using gas for the trip was unthinkable and detergent cost money. That was just one example. She quoted many others, and that was just in our little community.

Dad also talked about taking odd jobs whenever he could find them and helping his family farming when he wasn't working. Far northern MN is incredibly poor farming land and no family could make it up there just on farming so he took work for pay whenever he could find it: tree planting with the CCC, sawmilling, a whole lot of other things, all hard work. and VERY little pay.

Today, we see statements like the one quoted above. The sad part is that it is all too true. Americans won't. But would they, if they had no other choice?

Maybe what this country needs is another Great Depression, where folks either pull together or die. "Backbreaking" work was not only the order of the day, but people lined up for it and took it gladly when offered. You don't become great if you live from handout to handout, after all.

[GoRedSox!]

Decent analysis and true to the extent that there were early retirements and families that due to the cost of daycare realized that they could survive on one income. However, whether you believe that 1 million deaths were due to as opposed to with COVID, the overwhelming majority of those people were not in and would never be in the workforce.Not everyone who died was over 65. But that is really not the debate I want to have. What the pandemic did was change the perspective of a lot of people. Including me. I did not plan on leaving the workforce before age 65, because I didn't want to deal with healthcare before Medicare, but I ended up retiring early and have not regretted it. I think the pandemic showed us that life can turn on a dime and no one is guaranteed another day. We lost of lot of people in a short period of time. The lock downs and isolation and it was all sad and challenging on many different levels. And so people started to look at things differently. A lot of that had to do with how they work or whether they work. And what they do for work. There are probably several other reasons for why we find ourselves here that I am not mentioning here. In my town in CT, my whole life, when it was announced the police would be hiring, there were hundreds of applicants. Now, they get in the single digits in applicants. They just can't seem to hire enough nurses in this country. The traveling nurses make an incredible salary and still there is a shortage. There is no doubt we need more doctors, too. There are many professions with shortages, not just fast food workers. I think many of these situations are only going to get worse as the number of Baby Boomers turning 65 each day is now at an all-time high. I know there is a lot of talk across several forums about the slowdown in the real estate market in The Villages, but I think that there are still over 100 new and pre-owned homes sold every week.

[oneclickplus]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

I am glad that I am not graduating high school this year.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

Yeah, I read that article. What is coming is bigger and badder than most will acknowledge or entertain. We are already in a fiscal death spiral. $1Trillion will be spent next year just to pay the interest on the national debt. And, because we refuse to spend less than what we take in, the debt will continue to grow. People need to understand the word "unsustainable". This is unsustainable. That means it can not continue. So, therefore, inflation is unstoppable and hyper-inflation is just around the corner as our corrupt government tries to hide the inevitable.

Eventually (3-4 years at most), the USD will be close to worthless. That's right. Think hard and contemplate a world where your money doesn't work. How will you obtain what you need? Can you imagine the chaos, the gangs, the violence that will erupt when money doesn't work. Got some gold? Perhaps that will help a little but you can't eat gold. What will you do? Will you or your family even survive? It's going to get real ugly. Are you PREPared?

Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe are coming to a country near you thanks to deficit spending, unopposed immigration, political violence, etc. This can not be fixed. Mathematically, we are past the point of no return. Doesn't matter who you vote for. Doesn't matter what program might be cut to try to stem the bleeding. Our corrupt leaders and their supporters (WEF, Bill Gates, Soros, corrupt media, the UN, etc) will destroy this country.

This history book is also a prediction pertaining to the USA.

When Money Dies: The Nightmare of Deficit Spending, Devaluation, and Hyperinflation in Weimar Germany (https://www.amazon.com/When-Money-Dies-Devaluation-Hyperinflation/dp/1586489941/)

[GoRedSox!]

Finally, and this is really not political but a fact, there are some jobs that Americans either can't or won't do. 80% of the workers on farms are foreign born. We need people to harvest our crops, vegetables, fruits and nuts. According to farmers in many parts of the country, Americans won't do this backbreaking work regardless of pay. There are other occupations as well with very few American-born workers.


I was thinking yesterday (appropriate for the day, I guess) about "The Greatest Generation"; the Americans who survived the Great Depression, fought with our allies in WW 2, and later helped America become the greatest economic powerhouse that this planet has yet seen. I remember Mom talking about how people pulled together during the depression, in particular a time when my grandmother was too ill to do what needed to be done, and a neighbor (Irene) doing their laundry. Doesn't sound like much except that Irene lived over 1.5 miles away and walked to my Mom's house, carried the laundry back to her house to do with hers, washed, dried and folded it, and returned the laundry in the same way. Using gas for the trip was unthinkable and detergent cost money. That was just one example. She quoted many others, and that was just in our little community.

Dad also talked about taking odd jobs whenever he could find them and helping his family farming when he wasn't working. Far northern MN is incredibly poor farming land and no family could make it up there just on farming so he took work for pay whenever he could find it: tree planting with the CCC, sawmilling, a whole lot of other things, all hard work. and VERY little pay.

Today, we see statements like the one quoted above. The sad part is that it is all too true. Americans won't. But would they, if they had no other choice?

Maybe what this country needs is another Great Depression, where folks either pull together or die. "Backbreaking" work was not only the order of the day, but people lined up for it and took it gladly when offered. You don't become great if you live from handout to handout, after all.[/QUOTE]I don't know the answer to this question. Would they if they had no other choice? For some, it's not a matter of desire, they are just not in physical condition to do this kind of work.

When I was in college, I worked part-time on a janitorial crew in the winter and outside maintenance in the summer. I swept floors, learned to use a buffing machine, used a mop and bucket quite often, even stripped and sealed floors. Sometimes I had to clean bathrooms. I didn't enjoy that, but bathrooms had to be cleaned and I was a janitor. In the summer, I picked up garbage and cut grass all day long. Meanwhile, I was also going to college and making sure I kept my grades up.

This was not unusual for the 70-80's. I think it is unusual now. I graduated from college with no student loan debt and a bachelor's degree and my days working these kinds of jobs were over. Still, I think they provided me valuable experience and built my work ethic and I also know what it's like to show up every day for an unskilled labor job, punch a clock, and work as part of a crew. I never took a day off and I showed up every day on time. It was good for me.

Things have changed since then. I am not going to be like one of those people who say "back in my day" blah blah blah. The whole world has changed. We didn't walk around with cell phones or have social media in those days. I am not going to blame anyone, I just think things have changed.

[GoRedSox!]

Finally, and this is really not political but a fact, there are some jobs that Americans either can't or won't do. 80% of the workers on farms are foreign born. We need people to harvest our crops, vegetables, fruits and nuts. According to farmers in many parts of the country, Americans won't do this backbreaking work regardless of pay. There are other occupations as well with very few American-born workers.


I was thinking yesterday (appropriate for the day, I guess) about "The Greatest Generation"; the Americans who survived the Great Depression, fought with our allies in WW 2, and later helped America become the greatest economic powerhouse that this planet has yet seen. I remember Mom talking about how people pulled together during the depression, in particular a time when my grandmother was too ill to do what needed to be done, and a neighbor (Irene) doing their laundry. Doesn't sound like much except that Irene lived over 1.5 miles away and walked to my Mom's house, carried the laundry back to her house to do with hers, washed, dried and folded it, and returned the laundry in the same way. Using gas for the trip was unthinkable and detergent cost money. That was just one example. She quoted many others, and that was just in our little community.

Dad also talked about taking odd jobs whenever he could find them and helping his family farming when he wasn't working. Far northern MN is incredibly poor farming land and no family could make it up there just on farming so he took work for pay whenever he could find it: tree planting with the CCC, sawmilling, a whole lot of other things, all hard work. and VERY little pay.

Today, we see statements like the one quoted above. The sad part is that it is all too true. Americans won't. But would they, if they had no other choice?

Maybe what this country needs is another Great Depression, where folks either pull together or die. "Backbreaking" work was not only the order of the day, but people lined up for it and took it gladly when offered. You don't become great if you live from handout to handout, after all.[/QUOTE]

When I was in college, I worked part-time on a janitorial crew in the winter and outside maintenance in the summer. I swept floors, learned to use a buffing machine, used a mop and bucket quite often, even stripped and sealed floors. Sometimes I had to clean bathrooms. I didn't enjoy that, but bathrooms had to be cleaned and I was a janitor. In the summer, I picked up garbage and cut grass all day long. Meanwhile, I was also going to college and making sure I kept my grades up.

This was not unusual for the 70-80's. I think it is unusual now. I graduated from college with no student loan debt and a bachelor's degree and my days working these kinds of jobs were over. Still, I think they provided me valuable experience and built my work ethic and I also know what it's like to show up every day for an unskilled labor job, punch a clock, and work as part of a crew. I never took a day off and I showed up every day on time. It was good for me.

Things have changed since then. I am not going to be like one of those people who say "back in my day" blah blah blah. The whole world has changed. We didn't walk around with cell phones or have social media in those days. I am not going to blame anyone, I just think things have changed.

[Mazjaz]

No need to pay it back.

30% of US debt is held overseas............if it's not paid back......the countries will survive. They are holding the debt..........it's really not "in the system".

Another ~30% is held by "US government". SSA, Federal Reserve, Retirement Agencies. Just "print money" when & if the funds are needed if the agency can not redefine.

The last ~40% is held by US individuals and institutions. As individuals die, right off the debt.....no passing to next generation. For institutions, write off 10% per year.

Flush the toilet.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Sure can do but nobody will buy any new debt ever and our credit rating will be in the toilet and interest rates will climb higher for is being a deadbeat borrower.

[jimbomaybe]

Jus make it legal. :what:
( with apologies ) Were you politician in a former life, the consequences are the same but if you can sell to the public , and avoid responsibility , good to go

[Wondering]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

I am glad that I am not graduating high school this year.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?
Easy solution - tax the billionaires and large corporations, like Amazon, who don't pay any taxes or at least not their fair share. Again, an easy solution!

[ThirdOfFive]

Easy solution - tax the billionaires and large corporations, like Amazon, who don't pay any taxes or at least not their fair share. Again, an easy solution!
I'm curious...What would be Amazon's "fair share"?

[Stu from NYC]

Easy solution - tax the billionaires and large corporations, like Amazon, who don't pay any taxes or at least not their fair share. Again, an easy solution!

Ever take a class in Economics? Typically corporations pass on taxes to their customers in the form of higher taxes.

BTW what is a fair share? 40%, 50%? Corporations and small businesses are the ones who provide jobs to grow the economy. They spend much more efficiently than the govt.

[SHIBUMI]

Nice breakout.........the debt is obviously not a problem as no one ever tries to correct it. So, its a non issue............


No need to pay it back.

30% of US debt is held overseas............if it's not paid back......the countries will survive. They are holding the debt..........it's really not "in the system".

Another ~30% is held by "US government". SSA, Federal Reserve, Retirement Agencies. Just "print money" when & if the funds are needed if the agency can not redefine.

The last ~40% is held by US individuals and institutions. As individuals die, right off the debt.....no passing to next generation. For institutions, write off 10% per year.

Flush the toilet.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[OhioBuckeye]

I hear you, so there’s nothing we can do about it. So in the last 3 1/2 yrs. who do you think is the blame for most of it?

[retiredguy123]

Ever take a class in Economics? Typically corporations pass on taxes to their customers in the form of higher taxes.

BTW what is a fair share? 40%, 50%? Corporations and small businesses are the ones who provide jobs to grow the economy. They spend much more efficiently than the govt.
Especially Amazon. If they depended on the USPS to deliver their products, they would probably go out of business. They have developed their own delivery system that is head over heels better than the Government system.

[dewilson58]

Sure can do but nobody will buy any new debt ever and our credit rating will be in the toilet and interest rates will climb higher for is being a deadbeat borrower.

Perfect...............we can't borrow, we must live within our means. :BigApplause:

[DPWM21]

Fairly tax *ultra* rich? Have I been misled that top 1% or so of business and individuals get deep exemptions? I looked at tax tables from 1900 forward and it appears that this group has steady decline in taxes paid? Idk?

[Topspinmo]

I don't know where people get that idea from. We don't just print up extra money---we BORROW it---mostly from ourselves, some from other countries. Last I heard it was 15% international ownership---someone above posted 30%---it may have reached that by now. But the concept that someone in the Bureau of Printing and Engraving is working the presses overtime is nonsense


“Countries keep printing money to get over the short term problem but debt has to be repaid or deflated”. Quoted for PhD in finance.

What’s your degree in ? Several branches of government covert activities just print money under table not accountable to anyone.

[Topspinmo]

Easy solution - tax the billionaires and large corporations, like Amazon, who don't pay any taxes or at least not their fair share. Again, an easy solution!


This what got use into problems, thinking taxing is solution when spend crazy taxing governments are the problem.

[retiredguy123]

Fairly tax *ultra* rich? Have I been misled that top 1% or so of business and individuals get deep exemptions? I looked at tax tables from 1900 forward and it appears that this group has steady decline in taxes paid? Idk?
Raising taxes on the rich will not solve the problem. But, increasing the number of people who pay taxes could solve the problem. A tax system where half of the people pay no income tax is absurd. Everyone should have skin in the game.

[Topspinmo]

Raising taxes on the rich will not solve the problem. But, increasing the number of people who pay taxes could solve the problem. A tax system where half of the people pay no income tax is absurd. Everyone should have skin in the game.

Somebody buying something when only little less than half pay no taxes.

[Cliff Fr]

I was reading recently that tge Chinese government owes us quite a bit of money from the pre communist era that is still due

[Topspinmo]

I was reading recently that tge Chinese government owes us quite a bit of money from the pre communist era that is still due

I sure we written if off in 40s.

[SHIBUMI]

3 1/2 years has nothing to do with it...........it went out of whack after a balanced budget existed...........since then its all their faults, in that way no one is to blame........just rhetoric...........its a non issue until action is taken not rhetoric


I hear you, so there’s nothing we can do about it. So in the last 3 1/2 yrs. who do you think is the blame for most of it?

[Fastskiguy]

ever since i began paying attention to politics in my 20's, i've always heard the warnings on national debt. it never seems to get better, only much worse. will it ever end?

I was going to post the same thing. Dire warnings in the 80's yet we're still here and things are better than ever. Maybe it really doesn't matter. But it *has* to, doesn't it?

Joe

[Fastskiguy]

Raising taxes on the rich will not solve the problem. But, increasing the number of people who pay taxes could solve the problem. A tax system where half of the people pay no income tax is absurd. Everyone should have skin in the game.

Seems like they could increase taxes 5% across the board, cut spending 5% across the board, increase/decrease both 1% every year until things are under control. But I'm sure there are plenty of plans that would work that nobody can agree upon ;)

Joe

[Bwanajim]

Interesting article on global debt.

The world is sitting on a $91 trillion problem. ‘Hard choices’ are coming | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/economy/global-debt-crisis/index.html)

The most disturbing language is that “Tackling America’s debt problem will require either tax hikes or cuts to benefits, such as social security and health insurance programs.”

The good news is that we may have another 25-30 years before the world economy collapses.

I am glad that I am not graduating high school this year.

Any comments or suggestions from any economists or financial experts? Is it as dire as predicted? Or does it exaggerate the problem?What are the solutions?

Real simple, government has to stop wasteful spending and they won’t. Why are we spending? I think $60 billion on student loan bail out? Why are we spending billions on illegals coming into the country and we’re not even taking care of our military?? The government spent $6 billion on EV charging stations and only have six installed so far. Every bill passed by congress should only have one item on it. 20 or 30 people tack on stuff for their district like $5 million for a library or $10 million for a zebra museum or some stupid crap.
The one thing our founding fathers screwed up was not putting term limits on Congress.
I’m afraid it’s too late now🤬

[Cliff Fr]

I doubt term limits would do anything.

[SoCalGal]

To countries we owe money to, we should say, "For the foreseeable future, we can pay only principal, not interest, until the debt is paid. This may change; we'll let you know."

To government leaders, we should say, "Reduce the size of government by at least 25% within five years, or we, the taxpayers, will stop paying taxes." With enough citizens withholding taxes, there's no way the IRS could pursue them all.

To the American people, our leaders should say, "We must undertake an austerity program. We can no longer pay for other countries' security; they must pay us."

The above would be just a start, but I believe we can greatly reduce the national debt.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Raising taxes on the rich will not solve the problem.

It did in the thirties when no one was working and the rich had to pay to put people back to work. As the lower income tax base becomes smaller due to few job opportunities, who can foot the increased tax bill?

[Cliff Fr]

Like the old saying goes: there is no free lunch. Eventually it has to be paid for. I remember back when we had a budget surplus. There was talk then of paying down the debt with the extra money. That never happened.

[Stu from NYC]

Real simple, government has to stop wasteful spending and they won’t. Why are we spending? I think $60 billion on student loan bail out? Why are we spending billions on illegals coming into the country and we’re not even taking care of our military?? The government spent $6 billion on EV charging stations and only have six installed so far. Every bill passed by congress should only have one item on it. 20 or 30 people tack on stuff for their district like $5 million for a library or $10 million for a zebra museum or some stupid crap.
The one thing our founding fathers screwed up was not putting term limits on Congress.
I’m afraid it’s too late now🤬

Or put an ending date on everyone program that is passed. Agree that every bill passed should have one item on it.

Also the president should have a line item veto power

[Topspinmo]

To countries we owe money to, we should say, "For the foreseeable future, we can pay only principal, not interest, until the debt is paid. This may change; we'll let you know."

To government leaders, we should say, "Reduce the size of government by at least 25% within five years, or we, the taxpayers, will stop paying taxes." With enough citizens withholding taxes, there's no way the IRS could pursue them all.

To the American people, our leaders should say, "We must undertake an austerity program. We can no longer pay for other countries' security; they must pay us."

The above would be just a start, but I believe we can greatly reduce the national debt.

We could if there was interest in doing so.

Or no foreign aid till debt paid and only after balanced budget.

[Topspinmo]

3 1/2 years has nothing to do with it...........it went out of whack after a balanced budget existed...........since then its all their faults, in that way no one is to blame........just rhetoric...........its a non issue until action is taken not rhetoric


So 14 trillion more debt has nothing to do with it. :oops:

[Runway48]

Every legitimate government has a fundamental obligation to protect its citizens. Beyond that, everything else is dependent upon the wealth of the nation. A nation that has debt exceeding its GDP is not wealthy. Being a politician is a really good gig that few want to give up. The easiest way to get re-elected is to give money away. Strick terms limits may not solve everything, but it may allow politicians to do what's right for the future of the country and remove the temptation to spend excessive amounts to garner votes for re-election.

[SHIBUMI]

It's obviously just numbers..........until someone is forced to deal with it.........no one in 20 years has stepped up to that plate.......so it's a non issue until then.........


So 14 trillion more debt has nothing to do with it. :oops:

[LeRoySmith]

The federal government collected nearly $4.5 trillion in revenue in fiscal year 2023. They spent ~$6.2 trillion in FY 2023. This is not a one or the other party problem, its an all government and all citizen issue.

Who can spend more than they make year after year and stay solvent?
Who in their right mind thinks this is 1 little tiny bit ok?

[ThirdOfFive]

Every legitimate government has a fundamental obligation to protect its citizens. Beyond that, everything else is dependent upon the wealth of the nation. A nation that has debt exceeding its GDP is not wealthy. Being a politician is a really good gig that few want to give up. The easiest way to get re-elected is to give money away. Strick terms limits may not solve everything, but it may allow politicians to do what's right for the future of the country and remove the temptation to spend excessive amounts to garner votes for re-election.
Of late I've been of the opinion that we should choose our office-holders, for whatever office from 1600 Pennsylvania on down to dog-catcher (do they still have those?) the same way we pick juries. Draw a name at random from a list of persons qualified to serve for whatever office needs to be filled, and the person drawn must either serve or have a darned good reason why not. One term only; following service that person is forever exempt from further drawings. Of course the bennies should be liberal: salary commensurate with the responsibilities of the position, free housing and living expenses for both the office holder and immediate family, travel and moving expenses as needed, plus full medical insurance for the office holder and family. His/her former job, together with expected advancements and pay increases, guaranteed to be there when his/her term is completed.

I challenge anyone to come up with a reason why such a system would be any worse than what we have now. I can't think of any. I CAN come up with quite a few reasons FOR such a system however.

[Fastskiguy]

Of late I've been of the opinion that we should choose our office-holders, for whatever office from 1600 Pennsylvania on down to dog-catcher (do they still have those?) the same way we pick juries. Draw a name at random from a list of persons qualified to serve for whatever office needs to be filled, and the person drawn must either serve or have a darned good reason why not. One term only; following service that person is forever exempt from further drawings. Of course the bennies should be liberal: salary commensurate with the responsibilities of the position, free housing and living expenses for both the office holder and immediate family, travel and moving expenses as needed, plus full medical insurance for the office holder and family. His/her former job, together with expected advancements and pay increases, guaranteed to be there when his/her term is completed.

I challenge anyone to come up with a reason why such a system would be any worse than what we have now. I can't think of any. I CAN come up with quite a few reasons FOR such a system however.

You might not get top flight talent with that scenario and you need some semblance of continuity….but then again, the current system has given us two, um, interesting options for the next 4 years. I like your idea!

Joe

[Stu from NYC]

The federal government collected nearly $4.5 trillion in revenue in fiscal year 2023. They spent ~$6.2 trillion in FY 2023. This is not a one or the other party problem, its an all government and all citizen issue.

Who can spend more than they make year after year and stay solvent?
Who in their right mind thinks this is 1 little tiny bit ok?

Which is why it is pathetic we keep reelecting the same people who caused this problem