Golf cart included in Rental Properties

[mrf6969]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.

[Bill14564]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.

Did you not answer your own question?

If the lawyers say no and give a reasonable explanation why then what is the question?

[tophcfa]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.

Depends on the rental premium the landlord gets for including the cart versus the cost of carrying the cart, including rental liability coverage. One thing is for certain, properties that include a cart are in higher demand. Properties that allow a pet and include a golf cart are in the highest demand.

[mrf6969]

Did you not answer your own question?

If the lawyers say no and give a reasonable explanation why then what is the question?

I threw this out there as I am hoping that maybe someone has had an issue when including a cart in a rental and can speak to this issue.

[Two Bills]

For many years of rental, my wife and I assumed (I know!) the landlords had us covered with insurance.
Didn't seem a big deal at the time. House with golf cart, just drive it.
It turned out, not a single landlord had any rental driver insurance cover.
We added our own third party golf cart cover to our holiday insurance for the later years of our stays.
Luckily, we survived intact, with and without insurance.

[Bjeanj]

Did you not answer your own question?

If the lawyers say no and give a reasonable explanation why then what is the question?

What s(he) said.

[Michael G.]

Depends on the rental premium the landlord gets for including the cart versus the cost of carrying the cart, including rental liability coverage. One thing is for certain, properties that include a cart are in higher demand. Properties that allow a pet and include a golf cart are in the highest demand.

Yep, just ask the squatters.

[DonH57]

If I had a rental property I personally would never supply a golf cart for liability reasons. There are plenty of golf cart rental agencies in the area.

[Gatorfan1]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.

If you are told your renters are covered, get in writing from insurance company.
If it is not covered, owner is liable as well as the tenant operating golf cart.

[Gatorfan1]

For many years of rental, my wife and I assumed (I know!) the landlords had us covered with insurance.
Didn't seem a big deal at the time. House with golf cart, just drive it.
It turned out, not a single landlord had any rental driver insurance cover.
We added our own third party golf cart cover to our holiday insurance for the later years of our stays.
Luckily, we survived intact, with and without insurance.

What insurance company covered you for a non owner golf cart?

[MrChip72]

We provide our golf cart to our renters for the two months a year that we rent our place out. We have a liability waver that basically puts any liability on them, plus the standard "you break it, you pay for it".

[MikeVillages]

We rented twice in TV when we were looking for a home. The first one was through air b&b said it was our option and an extra fee. We did not use the golf cart because we were too busy looking at homes. The owner would often email us asking how do we like the golf cart & wasn’t it fun. We told him we are not using it. He demanded we pay for the golf cart at the end of the rentel. We refused because we did not use it.

The second rental said we could use it if we want to, just add gas if you do. She had two rentals. She was flexible how long we could rent as long as we were out by July 4. We use the golf car a little because we were waiting for closing of our TV home.

If you are renting out your home, talk to a lawyer about a disclaimer of liability in the lease.

[Two Bills]

What insurance company covered you for a non owner golf cart?

Our UK bank (Nationwide) supplied my medical cover, and third party liability insurance.
I cannot remember who the insurance company was back then, but they now insure through Aviva.

[retiredguy123]

Whenever this topic comes up, people mention liability insurance, but they never say what level of coverage you need and the cost. Today, $10K in liability insurance is pretty much worthless. With that level of coverage, Dan Newlin would laugh you out of the office.

[Two Bills]

Whenever this topic comes up, people mention liability insurance, but they never say what level of coverage you need and the cost. Today, $10K in liability insurance is pretty much worthless. With that level of coverage, Dan Newlin would laugh you out of the office.

Up to 2020, we had $1,000,000 on our liability cover.
$10 mil each on medical.

[retiredguy123]

Up to 2020, we had $1,000,000 on our liability cover.
$10 mil each on medical.
How much would that amount cost on a golf cart that you only used for a month? Many auto insurance companies will not even sell you that much liability insurance on a regular auto insurance policy.

[Two Bills]

How much would that amount cost on a golf cart that you only used for a month? Many auto insurance companies will not even sell you that much liability insurance on a regular auto insurance policy.

No idea. That was on our Travel Insurance through our UK bank.

[JWGifford]

We own now but the two times we rented we only considered homes that included a cart.

[Maker]

We provide our golf cart to our renters for the two months a year that we rent our place out. We have a liability waver that basically puts any liability on them, plus the standard "you break it, you pay for it".

Except a person injured by the renter driving your golf cart has not signed any liability release, and they will sue you. And win big$$$.

Now you try to go after the renter. Their lawyer might say you were negligent for not providing training, or the cart had a mechanical issue, or insisting on that release signified that you had an expectation the renter could not operate the cart safely or you knew about another issue, or you failed to provide reasonable insurance coverage ...

[Harleyman]

[QUOTE=MrChip72;2352292]We provide our golf cart to our renters for the two months a year that we rent our place out. We have a liability waver that basically puts any liability on them, plus the standard "you break it, you pay for it".[/QUOTE

I hope you have spoken to a lawyer about your waiver. I spent 40 years in the insurance business in Canada. I assume waivers are the same in both places. If so, you cannot waive your liability away. You would absolutely be added to the suit and would have to pay your legal fees almost the way through. There would be more of a chance that you not your tenant would end up paying. Waivers are not a total release of liability. Be very careful.

[Topspinmo]

I don’t think there should be rental properties in house retirement community. O wait this place not true retirement community. Never mind. Anything goes. :BigApplause:

[Topspinmo]

[QUOTE=MrChip72;2352292]We provide our golf cart to our renters for the two months a year that we rent our place out. We have a liability waver that basically puts any liability on them, plus the standard "you break it, you pay for it".[/QUOTE

I hope you have spoken to a lawyer about your waiver. I spent 40 years in the insurance business in Canada. I assume waivers are the same in both places. If so, you cannot waive your liability away. You would absolutely be added to the suit and would have to pay your legal fees almost the way through. There would be more of a chance that you not your tenant would end up paying. Waivers are not a total release of liability. Be very careful.

Of course not. Who write laws lawyers so they and argue till sun don’t come up and cash in while doing it. :pepper2:

[Girlcopper]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.
Many rentals mandate you carry your own insurance for the golf cart use

[retiredguy123]

Many rentals mandate you carry your own insurance for the golf cart use
How much is required? Also, a renters policy does not cover the owner of the golf cart.

[ckcapaul]

Back when we rented out our place I could add the renter to the insurance policy. Both of us covered

[Wondering]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.
Tell your renters to rent a golf cart from a third party. Then there is no liability for you. even if you lower the rental price.

[nn0wheremann]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.
We rented our first year. The landlord “sold” us the golf cart for $1 down, the rest due in 12 months, with a 12 month “test drive “ period. That way we as tenants owned the cart and any liability. Seemed silly at the time, but it worked out. When we moved out we returned the golf cart to him, and he tore up the purchase agreement.

[CybrSage]

Yep, just ask the squatters.

There are people who took over empty homes and refuse to either pay rent or leave? Which part of the Villages is this in?

[bimmertl]

We provide our golf cart to our renters for the two months a year that we rent our place out. We have a liability waver that basically puts any liability on them, plus the standard "you break it, you pay for it".

"Waiver" is worthless.

Golf Carts: Danger Ahead (https://www.robcorbettlaw.com/post/golf-carts-danger-ahead)

[retiredguy123]

We rented our first year. The landlord “sold” us the golf cart for $1 down, the rest due in 12 months, with a 12 month “test drive “ period. That way we as tenants owned the cart and any liability. Seemed silly at the time, but it worked out. When we moved out we returned the golf cart to him, and he tore up the purchase agreement.
Any decent lawyer would negate that "sham" sale in a minute.

[CybrSage]

I don’t think there should be rental properties in house retirement community. O wait this place not true retirement community. Never mind. Anything goes. :BigApplause:

I cannot find where TV says it is a retirement community. I did find this "We are a 55+ community, perfectly located in sunny central Florida..." There is no requirement to be retired or partially retired.

[sallyg]

Include the cart and have renters sign a waiver. Carts are a huge bonus for renters.

[nn0wheremann]

Any decent lawyer would negate that "sham" sale in a minute.
Or take the liability insurance pay out money and run. Fortunately for all concerned no accidents, no harm, no foul.

[JudyLife]

I rent my villa with a gas GC and have a policy with Progressive which covers my renters with ‘permissive use’ of my GC.

[Bay Kid]

I was thinking about selling the cart to my renter, then they get insurance and sell it back to me at the end of the rental.

[retiredguy123]

I was thinking about selling the cart to my renter, then they get insurance and sell it back to me at the end of the rental.
You cannot avoid your liability with a sham sale.

[mrf6969]

We rented our first year. The landlord “sold” us the golf cart for $1 down, the rest due in 12 months, with a 12 month “test drive “ period. That way we as tenants owned the cart and any liability. Seemed silly at the time, but it worked out. When we moved out we returned the golf cart to him, and he tore up the purchase agreement.

Wow that seems very risky to the landlord in that a bill of sale or not, now the tenant owns the cart. 99% of pre-owned golf cart transactions are handshake and cash. You might never see that cart again.

[mrf6969]

Include the cart and have renters sign a waiver. Carts are a huge bonus for renters.

So, a waiver will fly in a huge liability lawsuit against the landlord your thinking?

[KarenV]

Should landlords offer a golf cart in a rental property? Lawyers say no, as it creates a wide array of liability.
As a renter it definitely is a plus but if cart is not included in the rental then rent should be $600+/- less than the ones who include them, just my opinion

[Two Bills]

Why try somewhat spurious ways of renting a cart, when adding the renter to your own coverage seems more logical?
Just add that amount to the rental, and if the renter does not want to pay, withdraw GC use, and tell them to rent their own.

[Danube]

When we rented two homes for a month each last Nov & Dec, we only looked at listings that included carts. There were so many listings there was no need to look at those without carts.

We were looking at homes to purchase and we used the carts (a lot) whenever possible vs. driving our car.

[TVTVTV]

We provide our golf cart to our renters for the two months a year that we rent our place out. We have a liability waver that basically puts any liability on them, plus the standard "you break it, you pay for it".


You might want to rethink the "value" of your waiver agreement. Just yesterday there was a serious accident between a golf cart and car. SUPPOSE If that was a a cart included with your home rental you could be facing a lawsuit depending on circumstances. I'd rather not risk additional liability and headache.

[LeRoySmith]

I rent my villa with a gas GC and have a policy with Progressive which covers my renters with ‘permissive use’ of my GC.

Same thing with state farm, if you give another person permission to use your car (or golf cart) they are insured as you are.

[MrChip72]

"Waiver" is worthless.

Golf Carts: Danger Ahead (https://www.robcorbettlaw.com/post/golf-carts-danger-ahead)

Our waiver is pretty close to identical as what Villages Golf Cars uses for their rentals and they haven't been sued into oblivion.

[retiredguy123]

Same thing with state farm, if you give another person permission to use your car (or golf cart) they are insured as you are.
Not necessarily. I would discuss this in great detail with your insurance company. Permissive use for a friend is not the same as allowing someone who is renting your house to use your golf cart. Here is an opinion from an insurance expert:

"What if you rent your vacation home and allow tenants to operate your golf cart while renting the home from you. How can you protect yourself?

Unless you have a commercial policy insuring all owned vehicles and every potential operator, I am not sure you can. A tenant renting from you is a business relationship and specifically “excluded” from coverage under your personal policies. Buying a commercial policy also won’t help, if your tenant is not an employee and/or listed as an operator on the policy."

[retiredguy123]

I rent my villa with a gas GC and have a policy with Progressive which covers my renters with ‘permissive use’ of my GC.
Not necessarily. See Post No. 45.

[mrf6969]

Not necessarily. See Post No. 45.

Interesting comments here voicing many points of view. With the litigious society we live in now and all the Morgan and Morgan's that are out there, it seems very hard to really protect yourself. Maybe a million or two million umbrella might be wise, if that is enough.

[retiredguy123]

Interesting comments here voicing many points of view. With the litigious society we live in now and all the Morgan and Morgan's that are out there, it seems very hard to really protect yourself. Maybe a million or two million umbrella might be wise, if that is enough.
I agree. Personally, I don't think the "permissive use" provision in your insurance policy will provide any liability protection to a landlord who allows a tenant to use their golf cart. Also, I don't think it matters how it is stated in the lease agreement. This is a business relationship between two parties, where the landlord is renting their house to make a profit. The golf cart is part of the deal and not a permissive use arrangement.

[bimmertl]

Same thing with state farm, if you give another person permission to use your car (or golf cart) they are insured as you are.

State Farm policy excludes coverage "for damages arising out of the ownership maintenance or use of a vehicle while it is rented to or leased to others by and insured".

Pretty much standard language in most policies.

Your renter can't waive the rights of injured parties who aren't part of the leasing or rental agreement.

So if your renter injures a pedestrian with your golf cart, they have the right to recover from you under Florida's dangerous instrumentality act.

[Gatorfan1]

Include the cart and have renters sign a waiver. Carts are a huge bonus for renters.

If you own golf cart, you are liable. If someone tells you different, have them give you in writing, signed, notarized.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Our rental has a golf cart, lawyers, yada, yada, yada.

Professionals all have focus points, I do with finance. That does not mean a professional bias/focus is the required/only answer.

The renter signs a separate agreement that he/she/they are personally liable for the golf cart, instructions are given. Because it’s an LLC, we have on premise liability against all rental incidents as well as rental house insurance.

Renters crash off premise, not our problem. Rental insurance required to be purchased by renter also covers damages

It’s most likely preventative maintenance/proper execution steps pays off with minimal impacts, and best success for everyone. And of course, like everything else in life, it works until it doesn’t.

YMMV

[retiredguy123]

If you own golf cart, you are liable. If someone tells you different, have them give you in writing, signed, notarized.
You will never get anything in writing from an insurance "agent" regarding coverage. They will just tell you to read the policy. This is because they are not actually agents for the company and they have no legal authority. Basically, they are sales people.

[Velvet]

You will never get anything in writing from an insurance "agent" regarding coverage. They will just tell you to read the policy. This is because they are not actually agents for the company and they have no legal authority. Basically, they are sales people.

So are you saying, no matter how you try to get around it, the owner ends up being liable for damages by the golf cart if it is used as part of a rental?

[retiredguy123]

So are you saying, no matter how you try to get around it, the owner ends up being liable for damages by the golf cart if it is used as part of a rental?
That would be my opinion. But, you may want to ask an attorney.

[Velvet]

That would be my opinion. But, you may want to ask an attorney.

Just curious. Thank you. I’m not renting anything out.

[mrf6969]

So are you saying, no matter how you try to get around it, the owner ends up being liable for damages by the golf cart if it is used as part of a rental?

Bottom line when all the dust settles, the way the ambulance chaser lawyers are now days and the courts too, I would have to agree that the bottom line would be, if you own it then the buck stops with the owner of the cart. Rather scary now days. Not worth the risk. Really got me thinking here so I am removing the cart from my rental.
Thanks for all the comments and opinions.

[Ignatz]

Bottom line when all the dust settles, the way the ambulance chaser lawyers are now days and the courts too, I would have to agree that the bottom line would be, if you own it then the buck stops with the owner of the cart. Rather scary now days. Not worth the risk. Really got me thinking here so I am removing the cart from my rental.
Thanks for all the comments and opinions.

The lawyers will sure put you through the wringer trying to include you as a liable party should something happen.

Smart move to minimize risk even at the cost of losing some renters that require a cart.

[Gatorfan1]

So are you saying, no matter how you try to get around it, the owner ends up being liable for damages by the golf cart if it is used as part of a rental?

Foremost was offering a golf cart policy for rentals. The renters who drove the cart had to be added as driver. My understanding is that Foremost is no longer offering.

[bimmertl]

Foremost was offering a golf cart policy for rentals. The renters who drove the cart had to be added as driver. My understanding is that Foremost is no longer offering.

This isn't that difficult to understand. Rental use, permissive use or whatever, in Florida the owner of the vehicle is liable for any permissive use by anybody.

What Is Dangerous Instrumentality Doctrine In Florida? - Quick Facts - Vicarious Liability - Abrahamson & Uiterwyk Car Accident and Injury Lawyers (https://www.theinjurylawyers.com/florida-dangerous-instrumentality-doctrine/)

In most cases the insurer of the cart will disclaim coverage as the vehicle is subject to a rental agreement. So no coverage for anybody.

You have to be crazy to let a rental use your golf cart.

[Velvet]

Sounds like people who let renter use golf carts are rolling the dice. Some people are high risk takers for a few dollars more. Maybe nothing will happen…

Personally, if I were to rent, my renter would have to rent their own golf cart, car, boat or whatever toy they want to play with. I’d stick to renting the house, just like anywhere else in the country.

[mrf6969]

Good point in that thinking back whenever we rent a place on the beach it has never come with a boat or jet skis. Why would they want the liability I suppose.

[CURLYSANDY]

I am insured with Progressive and my policy states:

"Insured Person" means ... any person with respect to an accident arising out of that person's use of an off road vehicle with the permission of you or a relative"

So I assumed I was covered for my Renters to use my golf cart????

[mrf6969]

I am insured with Progressive and my policy states:

"Insured Person" means ... any person with respect to an accident arising out of that person's use of an off road vehicle with the permission of you or a relative"

So I assumed I was covered for my Renters to use my golf cart????

Lawyers can argue this back and forth in court. Here come the judge.

[retiredguy123]

I am insured with Progressive and my policy states:

"Insured Person" means ... any person with respect to an accident arising out of that person's use of an off road vehicle with the permission of you or a relative"

So I assumed I was covered for my Renters to use my golf cart????
Read Post No. 45.

[raisingJB]

As a recent renter I rented a home with a cart and after driving the cart I decided it may not be as reliable as I would like so I ended up not using it (or any other cart). From now on I will prefer to rent homes without carts, providing the rent is appropriately lower than homes with carts, and rent my cart from a business. That way if it breaks down they will simply give me a new one and I don't have to deal with an owner who will argue that I destroyed his cart and need to compensate him for it.

[Velvet]

As a recent renter I rented a home with a cart and after driving the cart I decided it may not be as reliable as I would like so I ended up not using it (or any other cart). From now on I will prefer to rent homes without carts, providing the rent is appropriately lower than homes with carts, and rent my cart from a business. That way if it breaks down they will simply give me a new one and I don't have to deal with an owner who will argue that I destroyed his cart and need to compensate him for it.

Could be a cheap way for him to get his cart fixed…

[Gatorfan1]

I am insured with Progressive and my policy states:

"Insured Person" means ... any person with respect to an accident arising out of that person's use of an off road vehicle with the permission of you or a relative"

So I assumed I was covered for my Renters to use my golf cart????

When you include golf cart in your rental contract, it is no longer personal use but business use.

[CURLYSANDY]

When you include golf cart in your rental contract, it is no longer personal use but business use.

This thread has been troubling me, so I have asked my Agent from The Villages Insurance and her reply was " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"

So surely us and our Renters are covered for all eventualities????

[retiredguy123]

This thread has been troubling me, so I have asked my Agent from The Villages Insurance and her reply was " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"

So surely us and our Renters are covered for all eventualities????
So, if the renter is in an accident and you get sued by a third party for "pain and suffering", you will expect your insurance company to use your liability insurance to defend you and to pay the claimant? I'll bet you a dollar that you will never get the insurance company to put that in writing.

[CURLYSANDY]

So, if the renter is in an accident and you get sued by a third party for "pain and suffering", you will expect your insurance company to use your liability insurance to defend you and to pay the claimant? I'll bet you a dollar that you will never get the insurance company to put that in writing.
Yes, I have an email from my Agent at The Villages Insurance " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"?????

[retiredguy123]

Yes, I have an email from my Agent at The Villages Insurance " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"?????
Note that the "agent" does not actually represent the insurance company. But, did you make it clear that you are renting the house for profit, and that you expect to use your personal homeowner's liability coverage to cover your potential liability to a third party in a lawsuit for damages caused by the renter?

[Velvet]

This thread has been troubling me, so I have asked my Agent from The Villages Insurance and her reply was " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"

So surely us and our Renters are covered for all eventualities????

Did you ask THAT question? Of course your renters are allowed to drive your cart if you allow them to. All that means is that they are not stealing the cart. Ask if they are covered if anything happens to the cart or they hurt someone, specifically.

[Velvet]

Yes, I have an email from my Agent at The Villages Insurance " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"?????

Again, all that means is that the renter is not stealing the cart - not necessarily that they are covered or you are covered incase of a mishap.

[retiredguy123]

Yes, I have an email from my Agent at The Villages Insurance " your renters would be allowed to drive the golf cart if you give them permission to drive"?????
Here is a link to a law firm in The Villages who can answer any question about golf cart liability. They also have some useful information on their website.

Can I Rent My Golf Cart with My House In The Villages(R)? (https://www.babiarzlawfirm.com/blog/can-i-rent-my-golf-cart-with-my-house-in-the-villages/)

[mrf6969]

Wow, that pretty much sums it up, Don't do it!

[CURLYSANDY]

Again, all that means is that the renter is not stealing the cart - not necessarily that they are covered or you are covered incase of a mishap.

So, I have just asked the following question: "If I give permission for a Renter of our villa to drive our golf cart, they would also be insured"?

The Villages Insurance Agent replied "Typically, they won’t cover tenants but The Villages Insurance has a strong relationship with Progressive, so they extend that courtesy for our clients. So, while your policy would cover tenants that’s not usually the case"

So my Renters are insured???

[retiredguy123]

So, I have just asked the following question: "If I give permission for a Renter of our villa to drive our golf cart, they would also be insured"?

The Villages Insurance Agent replied "Typically, they won’t cover tenants but The Villages Insurance has a strong relationship with Progressive, so they extend that courtesy for our clients. So, while your policy would cover tenants that’s not usually the case"

So my Renters are insured???
With all due respect, you are not asking the right questions. Why do you care if your renter is insured? And what are they insured for? If the renter hits and injures a third party, and that third party sues you, what liability coverage, if any, will apply to the lawsuit? And, if The Villages Insurance has some special arrangement with the Progressive Insurance company, it would need to be documented as part of your insurance policy. Did they offer to provide you with a written amendment to your policy that states exactly what type of coverage it offers? Nothing that an insurance "agent" tells you is binding on the insurance company. The written policy document is created by a team of lawyers and is the basis for any claim against the policy. Insurance agents are basically salespeople who have no legal authority to represent the insurance company. I can almost guarantee that you signed a statement to that effect when you purchased the policy.

[Bay Kid]

Here is a link to a law firm in The Villages who can answer any question about golf cart liability. They also have some useful information on their website.

Can I Rent My Golf Cart with My House In The Villages(R)? (https://www.babiarzlawfirm.com/blog/can-i-rent-my-golf-cart-with-my-house-in-the-villages/)

Doesn't sound good for allowing cart use with a rental. Especially those Air B&Bs, which would be the worst to own with all the different multifamily users.