8 Reasons Retirees are Fleeing Florida!

[justjim]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

[Michael 61]

I’m sure there are some seniors leaving Florida for any one of the reasons cited. There is probably even a segment of Villagers who leave for those reasons. However, I would bet that there’s an even larger number of young adults leaving the state who were born and raised here that can’t afford to live here. State migration is not unique to Florida, but occurring in many states. However, Florida continues to grow in population, and The Villages continues to be a magnet for retirees, especially those in their late 50s / early 60s age group. South of 44 is booming with new Florida residents. For those that have done their homework prior to moving to Florida, and in particular The Villages, some of the reasons cited in the article come as no surprise.

[Papa_lecki]

Interesting.
“Among the top ten states to retire, Florida comes in at number one, followed by Colorado, Virginia, Delaware, Wyoming, Idaho, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Montana and Pennsylvania. The next 15 states also earn the distinction of being good states to retire in 2024. “

From Kiplinger
Best Places to Retire in the U.S. | Kiplinger (https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/happy-retirement/best-places-to-retire-in-the-us)

#9 - Forgot about the high estate tax rate in Florida.
#10 - high tax rate on retirement income

[Stu from NYC]

More people coming than going. Will continue until we run out of water

[dewilson58]

Florida jus passed 23,000,000 people.

Thank God there are eight reasons for some to leave, it would be too crowded.

:wave:

[kcrazorbackfan]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

And yet late last week it was announced the we now have 23,000,000 residents. Don’t seem like they’re fleeing out of Florida, more like fleeing in.

[MorTech]

9. Too many old people.

[justjim]

9. Too many old people.

I’ve read just north of 20% are “old people” - perhaps a little more depending how you define “old”. My definition gets a bit older everyday.

[Pugchief]

1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.



1. Paying half in TV compared to my other home UpNorth.
2. $194/month is reasonable, and when you consider that you are NOT also paying county taxes for Park District, it's a bargain.
3. Patio Villas are not expensive. Don't buy a Premier with a view unless you can swing it.
4. Absolutely true. That's one so far.
5. Also cheap compared to similar UpNorth. To be fair, I'm not there in the summer, so I don't run the A/C.
6. There is extreme weather everywhere, except when there isn't. If they're referring to hurricanes (which I assume they are), central FL is relatively unscathed. Stay away from the coast. It's kind of like buying in a river flood plain and then complaining that it floods.
7. Food prices higher UpNorth (in general). Prob varies by region.
8. This is certainly true if you are comparing TV to a major metro area in any state.

So I count 2 correct out of 8.

@Papa_lecki's #10: If you are referring to Estate Tax, FL also lower than in my UpNorth state. Regardless, FL has zero income tax on retirement income like 401k, IRA, pensions, social security. Since most other states tax those payments, you are saving a fortune by living in FL.

[Pugchief]

9. Too many old people.

That's a bad thing?

Maybe if you are stuck behind them in traffic, but "old people" rarely commit crimes.

[CarlR33]

I’m not leaving even IF a Hooters is coming into town,;) LOL

[Papa_lecki]

.

@Papa_lecki's #10: If you are referring to Estate Tax, FL also lower than in my UpNorth state. Regardless, FL has zero income tax on retirement income like 401k, IRA, pensions, social security. Since most other states tax those payments, you are saving a fortune by living in FL.

It was humor, showing how ridiculous the original post was
Hahaha - there isn’t an estate tax in FLA.
That’s why 20% Floridians are old.

[Davonu]

We’re moving to North Dakota to save $129 per year in overall expenses!! 🤓

(My attempt at sarcastic humor is not intended in any way to be a slam against North Dakota. 🤪)

[billethkid]

I want to know where the booths are that the people leaving go in and tell why!!!!

:duck:

[village dreamer]

I’m not leaving even IF a Hooters is coming into town,;) LOL i aint going nowhere now that hooters is coming to town.:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

[LeRoySmith]

1. Paying half in TV compared to my other home UpNorth.


I've already been called a liar for stating this but I'm paying more for 1 Florida home than I am 2 East TN homes, all 3 are similar size and quality (only the fl house has a pool). The guy that called me a liar failed to come back here and correct himself after he saw screen shots of the bills.

[Papa_lecki]

I've already been called a liar for stating this but I'm paying more for 1 Florida home than I am 2 East TN homes, all 3 are similar size and quality (only the fl house has a pool). The guy that called me a liar failed to come back here and correct himself after he saw screen shots of the bills.

I believe Tennessee is less expensive than FLA.
Good tax structure too.

[Pugchief]

I've already been called a liar for stating this but I'm paying more for 1 Florida home than I am 2 East TN homes, all 3 are similar size and quality (only the fl house has a pool). The guy that called me a liar failed to come back here and correct himself after he saw screen shots of the bills.

I believe Tennessee is less expensive than FLA.
Good tax structure too.

I'm sure it varies by state as well as county. My point was that for the article to say that FL automatically has higher insurance rates is ridiculous.

[Topspinmo]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!


No.9 been here long enough time to move on. :evil6:

[Topspinmo]

I’ve read just north of 20% are “old people” - perhaps a little more depending how you define “old”. My definition gets a bit older everyday.


Now days Over 29. They Finally have move out….parents house…. :BigApplause:

[tophcfa]

In my opinion, numbers 1-7 on the list are no big deal, except for perhaps #4 (but that’s coming from someone who hates big cities and prefers a more rural area). Number 8 is a real concern/issue and, along with the wife’s need to be near the kids/grandkids, is the reason we will probably always continue to have two residences.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Articles, somebody has to type some words about something, on a rotating schedule of topics. . .

How was that Olympic ceremony?

[Two Bills]

How was that Olympic ceremony?

Far too long.

PS. If I see another horse galloping up a river, I will shoot it!

[Rainger99]

We’re moving to North Dakota to save $129 per year in overall expenses!! 🤓

(My attempt at sarcastic humor is not intended in any way to be a slam against North Dakota. 🤪)

You forgot to factor in heating expenses!

[Bay Kid]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

Not only Florida. Same things going on in VA., probably most of the country. Especially the small town loss.

[M2inOR]

Math, finance, and budgeting skills are essential.

We moved here from Oregon, and overall, our monthly expenses are much, much lower here.

The excess $$$ from our retirement funds and investments fund our worldwide and US travel.

I've read those articles, too. Those are not localized costs. High City and coastal costs are in the mix.

Here in Central Florida and The Villages, we have a great place to live out our sunset years.

[MandoMan]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

I think you are right. For decades a significant percentage of people retiring to Florida have decided they made a mistake and left. Usually they move back to where they came from to be closer to their family and friends. That’s okay. That’s to be expected. The majority stay, and houses keep being built.

Florida is a huge state, and home insurance rates vary from place to place, depending on the risk of storm damage of various sorts. Insurance is a lot less here than in some areas of the state. In Sumter County, our electricity costs 11 cents per KWH. There are places where it is twice that. Our HOA fees in The Villages are wonderfully low, despite the complaints of those who are barely scraping by. There are trailer parks near here charging three times as much as we pay, even though they get much less. People complain about food costs even as they shop at Publix or Fresh Market, even though it’s much cheaper at Winn-Dixie or WalMart, so it’s hard to think they are serious. I worked in health care for a few years half a century ago at several highly rated hospitals. I go to AdventHealth Waterman for health care, which has an A rating, and while most of my doctors are foreign, they are doing a great job. Plus, with Medicare and my supplemental insurance, it is pretty much all covered. If you are going to get seriously ill, there has never been a better time in history to do it. Even at the hospital formerly known as The Villages Hospital, you can at best get much better treatment than at a great hospital fifty years ago.

So, yes, people are leaving. They have been for decades, but most stay.

[dewilson58]

No.9 been here long enough time to move on. :evil6:

No. 10, Grandkids.

[Jboduch]

I’m taking my chances in Florida. Anything’s better than shoveling snow combined with 8 months of grey sky’s in the north.

[ThirdOfFive]

One of the reasons I look askance at such magazine articles is the subjectivity involved. Google up "ten best (or worst) cities/states/whatever and that becomes obvious. Such articles vary widely according to criteria used and magazine readership.

One thing rarely mentioned as an attractor (maybe no so much in other parts of Florida but for sure here in TV) is the quality of law enforcement. Many of hail from parts of this country where lawlessness is rampant, and growing. Here in TV, we read about police chases after people who have shoplifted maybe $50 worth of whatever. Back where I come from, such thefts aren't even ordinarily reported, let alone followed-up on, unless the value exceeds $1000, and even if a police report IS taken on such a theft, follow-up action is rare to nonexistent.

We moved here for several reasons: lower taxes, better weather, cheaper standard of living, lower housing costs, you name it. All are as true today as when we first moved here. One thing we DIDN'T expect, but which we appreciate more and more as the parts of the country sink ever-further into lawlessness, is the amount and quality of law enforcement. Back home, I rarely left the house without carrying a pistol. Here, I rarely do. Just haven't felt the need.

Villagers have it pretty good. Often for reasons we don't even much think about.

[merrymini]

Sure, the cheapest state in the US to live in may be West Virginia. It also is the most unhealthy state, has the worst health care and the highest obesity rate in the country. But, if living cheap is your objection, you can choose any state at the bottom the list to move to. Bye bye.

[Robojo]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

I'm leaving for all of them except 2. Add the entitled asshats that make daily life a challenge. I'm one of those in late 50s in the south. THE SOUTH SUCKS.

[Kenswing]

I'm leaving for all of them except 2. Add the entitled asshats that make daily life a challenge. I'm one of those in late 50s in the south. THE SOUTH SUCKS.

That’s great. You’re doing the right thing. I wish all the others that don’t like it here would do the same. Why live in a place where you can’t find happiness? I hope you’re able to find it at your next stop.

[kendi]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

Florida Healthcare issues are not only due to shortages. Our Northern home has shortages but still has a much higher quality and reliability of healthcare than in Florida. Florida healthcare is quite frightening IMO. I’ve seen what they’ve done to my neighbors.

And concerning groceries, cheaper up North than in TV.

[coleprice]

We love it here in the North end of The Villages. We couldn't be happier!!!

[kendi]

I'm sure it varies by state as well as county. My point was that for the article to say that FL automatically has higher insurance rates is ridiculous.

Actually they do have higher rates. We switched our car ins to our Northern state for that specific reason. Switched the title from husband to myself since I’m still a resident up North.

[dewilson58]

Actually they do have higher rates. We switched our car ins to our Northern state for that specific reason. Switched the title from husband to myself since I’m still a resident up North.

Be careful, it's where your car is garaged.

[tophcfa]

Be careful, it's where your car is garaged.

Primarily garaged. Difficult to argue against where you claim, unless you have a newer car with some kind of tracking mechanism built into it.

[dewilson58]

Primarily garaged. Difficult to argue against where you claim, unless you have a newer car with some kind of tracking mechanism built into it.

Agree with "primarily".

But, if you have a Florida accident/claim and it's listed as garaged up North.......the company will start asking questions and if you keep lying, it turns into insurance fraud. Ouch.

[MidWestIA]

Something I wonder about The Villages is will the next generation want to come down and live with old people to play golf, pickleball and hear 60-70s music at the squares? Otherwise there will start to be empty houses in the older sections.

[bopat]

You know you don't need to get a magazine or click on a click-bait link for those "top-n" lists, you can generate them youself with chatgpt or google gemini,

Here's a good one from google gemini:
> give me a top 5 list of reasons why top 5 lists are fake


Top 5 Reasons Why Top 5 Lists Are Fake (or at Least Questionable)
1. Subjectivity Reigns Supreme
Top 5 lists are inherently subjective. What's number one for one person might be number five for another. Without concrete, measurable criteria, these lists often reflect the opinion of one person or a small group, not objective truth.

2. Clickbait Central
Many top 5 lists are designed to attract clicks rather than provide genuinely valuable information. Sensational headlines and provocative content often take precedence over accuracy and depth.

3. Oversimplification is the Norm
Complex issues are reduced to five simple points. This simplification often leads to overgeneralizations and a lack of nuance.

4. Lack of Rigorous Research
While some lists are backed by data and extensive research, many are based on anecdotal evidence, personal opinions, or even guesswork.

5. Potential for Bias
List creators may have personal or financial incentives to include or exclude certain items. This bias can skew the list and undermine its credibility.

[Markus]

Florida jus passed 23,000,000 people.

Thank God there are eight reasons for some to leave, it would be too crowded.

:wave:

40% of Florida is undeveloped still.

[Stu from NYC]

40% of Florida is undeveloped still.

Yes but limiting factor ultimately will be water

[justjim]

Yes but limiting factor ultimately will be water

About 40 years ago my plane landed in Phoenix, Arizona. I picked up the local paper and the headlines and article was all about the water shortage in “The Valley of the Sun”. The development had to stop. Well, you know the rest of the story…

[Bealman]

Thank God we live in a freeish country to allow us to live where you can!

[PugMom]

beware of news articles these days, almost everything has an agenda

[Rodneysblue]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!
Probably written by the "Luffa" author:1rotfl:

[Maker]

I think the most serious problem for high tax states is that the majority of people leaving are the higher earning residents, with significant savings. They paid the majority of taxes for those states and are fed up with that cost and the politics driving up the cost of living there. They flee to Florida, taking their wealth with them.
The majority of their replacements moving into those states are illegals who are a huge financial drain on the state and cities because they consume public funds. Rarely do we ever hear about wealthy people moving into these states. Financially, those states are hurting badly, and time is only making it worse.

[rsmurano]

Florida is relatively cheap compared to other states this big: California and NY for example.
If you can’t afford it, move! I tell my kids the same thing.
Most people here don’t realize what people are spending in other states. 8 years ago, I met a lady that lived in Connecticut and had a decent nice house (my house in the south at that time was 2x bigger, had more land, custom, and I was paying $4,000), and they were paying $30,000 in property taxes.
How is your social security taxed here? There is no income tax here.

[jimjamuser]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!
The poor quality of the school system (The Villages may be an exception) drags down Florida's quality of life. Right now there are 8,000 unfilled teacher vacancies throughout the state. Several thousand substitutes are needed and the school year starts in 2 weeks. 33% of all Florida homes are owned by hedge funds and other corporations.

[LeRoySmith]

The poor quality of the school system (The Villages may be an exception) drags down Florida's quality of life. Right now there are 8,000 unfilled teacher vacancies throughout the state. Several thousand substitutes are needed and the school year starts in 2 weeks. 33% of all Florida homes are owned by hedge funds and other corporations.

Why is it that I see your name on a post and I'm instantly suspicious of its content?

[Papa_lecki]

The poor quality of the school system (The Villages may be an exception) drags down Florida's quality of life. Right now there are 8,000 unfilled teacher vacancies throughout the state. Several thousand substitutes are needed and the school year starts in 2 weeks. 33% of all Florida homes are owned by hedge funds and other corporations.

You might need a new source for news.
UM - in May 2024
“ Today, U.S. News & World Report announced that Florida is again ranked #1 in the nation for education. The publication’s Best State ranking is based on a combination of strong performances in higher education and K-12 metrics.”

Florida Ranked #1 in Education for Second Year in a Row (https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/florida-ranked-1-in-education-for-second-year-in-a-row.stml)

[Papa_lecki]

33% of all Florida homes are owned by hedge funds and other corporations.

From the Urban Institute. You really need a better source of information (or just stop making stuff up). My home is owned by a corporation, the officers of the institution are my wife and I.

“As of June 2022, we estimate that large institutional investors own
roughly 574,000 single-family homes. We have defined an institutional investor as an entity that owns at least 100 single-family homes. To put this in perspective, there are 15.1 million one-unit rental properties nationwide. This would suggest that the total institutional ownership share is 3.8 percent;

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/2023-08/A%20Profile%20of%20Institutional%20Investor%E2%80% 93Owned%20Single-Family%20Rental%20Properties.pdf

[Aces4]

You forgot to factor in heating expenses!

Yeah, in Florida you get both along with constant bug control, termite contracts and on and on. The bills in our northern home are lower than Florida and groceries and great medical care are expensive and hard to come by in that order.

[Aces4]

You might need a new source for news.
UM - in May 2024
“ Today, U.S. News & World Report announced that Florida is again ranked #1 in the nation for education. The publication’s Best State ranking is based on a combination of strong performances in higher education and K-12 metrics.”

Florida Ranked #1 in Education for Second Year in a Row (https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/florida-ranked-1-in-education-for-second-year-in-a-row.stml)


That makes me laugh, I'd like to see the criteria and who funded that study for Florida.:1rotfl:

[Aces4]

Florida is relatively cheap compared to other states this big: California and NY for example.
If you can’t afford it, move! I tell my kids the same thing.
Most people here don’t realize what people are spending in other states. 8 years ago, I met a lady that lived in Connecticut and had a decent nice house (my house in the south at that time was 2x bigger, had more land, custom, and I was paying $4,000), and they were paying $30,000 in property taxes.
How is your social security taxed here? There is no income tax here.

One can't just pick the worst numbers states, include all the states in your comment and include fees and other than tax expenses.

[Papa_lecki]

That makes me laugh, I'd like to see the criteria and who funded that study for Florida.:1rotfl:

That ultra conservative magazine, US News and World Report

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2024-05-07/why-florida-is-the-best-state-in-education-and-economy

[Bill14564]

You might need a new source for news.
UM - in May 2024
“ Today, U.S. News & World Report announced that Florida is again ranked #1 in the nation for education. The publication’s Best State ranking is based on a combination of strong performances in higher education and K-12 metrics.”

Florida Ranked #1 in Education for Second Year in a Row (https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/florida-ranked-1-in-education-for-second-year-in-a-row.stml)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

According to the article, number one for Higher Education but not nearly as good for K-12.

[Kenswing]

Why is it that I see your name on a post and I'm instantly suspicious of its content?

Because you've learned from experience? I'm pretty sure he doesn't really believe half the stuff he posts. He just likes to see everyone's reaction.

[Aces4]

Articles, somebody has to type some words about something, on a rotating schedule of topics. . .

How was that Olympic ceremony?

Whether one wants to accept information contrary to their own experience is their business.

However, the article is right on for Florida. Someone did their homework for this article. On the other hand, if a profile was developed for all states in the union, one may find some of the same issues.

Bottom line, we all get to pick and choose but our experience personally is many friends have departed Florida. Some have stayed. I think part of the problem is the structured lifestyle gets so stale after while no matter how many things one joins.

[Aces4]

That ultra conservative magazine, US News and World Report

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2024-05-07/why-florida-is-the-best-state-in-education-and-economy

As Bill pointed out... Higher Education where you have an influx of students from other states who want to escape for the climate.

[LeRoySmith]

Because you've learned from experience? I'm pretty sure he doesn't really believe half the stuff he posts. He just likes to see everyone's reaction.

I've found when spinning tales 'it doesn't have to be true, just plausible and told with conviction'.

[Karmanng]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

HMMMMMMM I still have a home in AZ that I am trying to sell and came here to my home that I bought 2 years ago to test out.........So what do I notice ? Gas is cheaper but most likely a WASH as You drive farther for errands.......yes groceries are higher than AZ As Frys "kroger" is not really here but aldis and walmart are much better than Publix and you just buy whats on sale.........Restarants seem to be cheaper to me than back home where they are kinda mostly high end places that are ususally packed and prices are high for food items.........Electric seems cheaper to me here.........I did not have a HOA gas or need landscapers and more water use so all those things along with Insurances car and home are more pricy.......Drs are retiring also back home and getting out or cutting back................Weather? Well its LESS HOTTER here than back in AZ that is for sure!!!!!! Even with the humidity its not as bad as you all complain about which I then laugh at you...........Go live in the desert right now you will come crawling if not running back to Florida.......HOT IS hot and ours is very deadly due to the dryness.......STORMS? well AZ has had some pretty bad storms thru the years and we get tons of flooding when it does rain and lightening there is equally as bad...lots of microbursts too.......BUT there isnt nearly as much to do back there like here either........so its not goes without saying no place is really perfect anymore as the US is evolving and not for the better either........the whole world has gone nuts along with everyone in it just pick a place that suits you for now.......

[Karmanng]

I'm leaving for all of them except 2. Add the entitled asshats that make daily life a challenge. I'm one of those in late 50s in the south. THE SOUTH SUCKS.

well dont bother to go to arizona as its not that great anymore and thats why I came here...........you wont like it there either and its a blue state with all the californians coming in there to buy homes and really jacking up the prices.............good luck you wont like the north either

[Papa_lecki]

I've found when spinning tales 'it doesn't have to be true, just plausible and told with conviction'.

76% of statisticians agree with that and 67% of economists.

[opinionist]

When I moved to FL, my real estate taxes went from $12000/year to $1700/year.
My state income tax went from $2000/year to zero.
I do just fine with an extra $12300/year.

[CODYCAT]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

I don’t see a lot of moving vans headed for NY, NJ, Illinois, California, etc etc. to find the good life. Florida is certainly too hot but everything I read has it in the top five, if not #1, states to move to in the country. When I look at all the bad things in this world that I want nothing to do with Florida is very low in all those categories. Maybe I’m getting a little bitter in my old age but there are a lot of people in this world I don’t like and there is less of them in Florida.

[ThirdOfFive]

Whether one wants to accept information contrary to their own experience is their business.

However, the article is right on for Florida. Someone did their homework for this article. On the other hand, if a profile was developed for all states in the union, one may find some of the same issues.

Bottom line, we all get to pick and choose but our experience personally is many friends have departed Florida. Some have stayed. I think part of the problem is the structured lifestyle gets so stale after while no matter how many things one joins.
Interesting point. The more I think about it the more I think that there is more truth in it than we realize.

I once heard the average week in TV described as "six Saturdays and a Sunday". There is little challenge to living here. After a few months here I found myself unconsciously inventing stress so that I'd have something to worry about when I got up in the morning.

Old habits are hard to break.

[Toymeister]

I think the most serious problem for high tax states is that the majority of people leaving are the higher earning residents, with significant savings. They paid the majority of taxes for those states and are fed up with that cost and the politics driving up the cost of living there. They flee to Florida, taking their wealth with them.
The majority of their replacements moving into those states are illegals who are a huge financial drain on the state and cities because they consume public funds. Rarely do we ever hear about wealthy people moving into these states. Financially, those states are hurting badly, and time is only making it worse. There is a name for this. The 'Death Spiral' has been forecasted in some areas for over a decade.

[Pugchief]

I think the most serious problem for high tax states is that the majority of people leaving are the higher earning residents, with significant savings. They paid the majority of taxes for those states and are fed up with that cost and the politics driving up the cost of living there. They flee to Florida, taking their wealth with them.
The majority of their replacements moving into those states are illegals who are a huge financial drain on the state and cities because they consume public funds. Rarely do we ever hear about wealthy people moving into these states. Financially, those states are hurting badly, and time is only making it worse.

Not only is it a Death Spiral, it is a failure in leadership. Bad policies don't work, so let's double down on them! You can't build a paradise in a Welfare State. See Atlas Shrugged, it was ahead of its time.

[Ele201]

1. Paying half in TV compared to my other home UpNorth.
2. $194/month is reasonable, and when you consider that you are NOT also paying county taxes for Park District, it's a bargain.
3. Patio Villas are not expensive. Don't buy a Premier with a view unless you can swing it.
4. Absolutely true. That's one so far.
5. Also cheap compared to similar UpNorth. To be fair, I'm not there in the summer, so I don't run the A/C.
6. There is extreme weather everywhere, except when there isn't. If they're referring to hurricanes (which I assume they are), central FL is relatively unscathed. Stay away from the coast. It's kind of like buying in a river flood plain and then complaining that it floods.
7. Food prices higher UpNorth (in general). Prob varies by region.
8. This is certainly true if you are comparing TV to a major metro area in any state.

So I count 2 correct out of 8.

@Papa_lecki's #10: If you are referring to Estate Tax, FL also lower than in my UpNorth state. Regardless, FL has zero income tax on retirement income like 401k, IRA, pensions, social security. Since most other states tax those payments, you are saving a fortune by living in FL.

The weather in Florida can be dangerous and it’s a valid negative. Even in The Villages. For example : About two weeks ago there was a menacing electrical storm, which went on for half an hour with nonstop lightning. Two homes caught on fire. I mean there’s a lot of lightning here, even without being a full-blown storm. So I don’t downplay that. And then there’s the oppressive humidity.

But like everything else, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Plenty of people see the pros outweighing the cons of living in Fla. 😎

[MX rider]

The weather in Florida can be dangerous and it’s a valid negative. Even in The Villages. For example : About two weeks ago there was a menacing electrical storm, which went on for half an hour with nonstop lightning. Two homes caught on fire. I mean there’s a lot of lightning here, even without being a full-blown storm. So I don’t downplay that. And then there’s the oppressive humidity.

But like everything else, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Plenty of people see the pros outweighing the cons of living in Fla. 😎

Very well said. There's a happy place for everyone, lots of options. For us its TV.

[Switter]

You know you don't need to get a magazine or click on a click-bait link for those "top-n" lists, you can generate them youself with chatgpt or google gemini,

Here's a good one from google gemini:
> give me a top 5 list of reasons why top 5 lists are fake


Top 5 Reasons Why Top 5 Lists Are Fake (or at Least Questionable)
1. Subjectivity Reigns Supreme
Top 5 lists are inherently subjective. What's number one for one person might be number five for another. Without concrete, measurable criteria, these lists often reflect the opinion of one person or a small group, not objective truth.

2. Clickbait Central
Many top 5 lists are designed to attract clicks rather than provide genuinely valuable information. Sensational headlines and provocative content often take precedence over accuracy and depth.

3. Oversimplification is the Norm
Complex issues are reduced to five simple points. This simplification often leads to overgeneralizations and a lack of nuance.

4. Lack of Rigorous Research
While some lists are backed by data and extensive research, many are based on anecdotal evidence, personal opinions, or even guesswork.

5. Potential for Bias
List creators may have personal or financial incentives to include or exclude certain items. This bias can skew the list and undermine its credibility.

This is so true of so much information on the Internet. Just yesterday I saw an article in my Google newsfeed that listed Minnesota and Colorado as one of the worst places to retire.

article here (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/30/worst-states-to-retire-in-the-us.html)

Without knowing the underlying source (and motivation) of any sites data, I always take it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

[ThirdOfFive]

Not only is it a Death Spiral, it is a failure in leadership. Bad policies don't work, so let's double down on them! You can't build a paradise in a Welfare State. See Atlas Shrugged, it was ahead of its time.
True words.

I remember a quote from Paul Harvey, decades back, but it was as true today--perhaps even more so--than it was when it was spoken. "We cannot stand around with our hands in one another's pockets, and expect to get rich thereby".

[DAVES]

While waiting for a doctor appointment (I was a bit early) I picked up a magazine I believe was called “retirement”life”. The Article was called “8 shocking reasons retirees are fleeing Florida”. Briefly as I remember:
1. Insurance too expensive. Florida homeowners is well above the national average.
2. Rise in HOA fees.
3. Unavailable affordable housing for retirees.
4. Overdevelopment and loss of small-town appeal.
5. Higher Utility bills.
6 . Extreme weather conditions
7. Groceries cost above national averages.
8. Quality and lack of adequate
Healthcare.

According to this article a subtle yet significant shift is changing peoples minds regarding the Sunshine State as a destination for the ultimate retirement paradise it once was. I found the article interesting “opinion” more than factual with no empirical data to backup the opinions. Florida continues to grow in population each year as shown by the data I’ve seen. It’s certainly true (growth) with regard to The Villages. Maybe Florida isn’t paradise but the fact is it probably never was.

We have been in TV going on 18 years and can identify with overdevelopment, higher insurance costs and the loss of small-town appeal. Yes, groceries are more costly but isn’t that true elsewhere? - its called inflation! Finally, there are healthcare issues here but the shortage of Doctors, Nurses and health facilities are not just a Florida issue it’s nationwide. Fore!

There are always people moving from and to anywhere. When you read an article realize WE would not read it and they would not print it if it said DUH, I have nothing to say.

In the end it is your choice. The population of Florida is growing. The Villages is one of the fastest cities in the United States. Perhaps, part of the problem is so many choices. Sort of like Dunkin Doughnuts, people wait on line and wait till they get to the counter to decide how many and which ones.

[DAVES]

HMMMMMMM I still have a home in AZ that I am trying to sell and came here to my home that I bought 2 years ago to test out.........So what do I notice ? Gas is cheaper but most likely a WASH as You drive farther for errands.......yes groceries are higher than AZ As Frys "kroger" is not really here but aldis and walmart are much better than Publix and you just buy whats on sale.........Restarants seem to be cheaper to me than back home where they are kinda mostly high end places that are ususally packed and prices are high for food items.........Electric seems cheaper to me here.........I did not have a HOA gas or need landscapers and more water use so all those things along with Insurances car and home are more pricy.......Drs are retiring also back home and getting out or cutting back................Weather? Well its LESS HOTTER here than back in AZ that is for sure!!!!!! Even with the humidity its not as bad as you all complain about which I then laugh at you...........Go live in the desert right now you will come crawling if not running back to Florida.......HOT IS hot and ours is very deadly due to the dryness.......STORMS? well AZ has had some pretty bad storms thru the years and we get tons of flooding when it does rain and lightening there is equally as bad...lots of microbursts too.......BUT there isnt nearly as much to do back there like here either........so its not goes without saying no place is really perfect anymore as the US is evolving and not for the better either........the whole world has gone nuts along with everyone in it just pick a place that suits you for now.......

Trying to sell? If, it is not selling the question is It is BROKER, PRICE, CONDITION.
Mortgages are high and hard to get. That reduces not want you want to get but what it can be sold for. People often do not realize it costs you money to keep a home you are not using. On top of that their is the value of the equity. Money Market you can even now get 5%

No place was ever perfect. It is said youth is wasted on the young. Endless news.
When, I was working I was working too many hours to have time for it.

[MrFlorida]

I'm staying, were getting a Costco..

[MorTech]

10. Too many old people who do not commit crimes.

[Switter]

I'm staying, were getting a Costco..


RIGHT!!! No more driving to Claremont. I can't wait!

[dewilson58]

10. Too many old people who do not commit crimes.

11. No Katie Belle's

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Bottom line, we all get to pick and choose but our experience personally is many friends have departed Florida. Some have stayed. I think part of the problem is the structured lifestyle gets so stale after while no matter how many things one joins.

can you explain what a structured lifestyle is?
Is it getting up every morning?
is it going to store for groceries?
is it doing activities which they choose to do but don't like?

Is the issue "a trip to Abilene?"
Abilene paradox - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox)

psych guy

[Aces4]

can you explain what a structured lifestyle is?
Is it getting up every morning?
is it going to store for groceries?
is it doing activities which they choose to do but don't like?

Is the issue "a trip to Abilene?"
Abilene paradox - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox)

psych guy

If you can’t identify the structured lifestyle of The Villages, I can’t help you.:shrug:

[LeRoySmith]

can you explain what a structured lifestyle is?
Is it getting up every morning?
is it going to store for groceries?
is it doing activities which they choose to do but don't like?

Is the issue "a trip to Abilene?"
Abilene paradox - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox)

psych guy

I'm in the same boat, my life before here and before retirement was much more structured than it is now. Here you can do a little bit of thousands of things a lot of a few or a whole lotta nuthin. There is almost no structure in my life compared to 10 years ago. And I like it.


I don't even know what day it is the vast majority of the time.

[HoosierPa]

More coming than going

[CoachKandSportsguy]

If you can’t identify the structured lifestyle of The Villages, I can’t help you.:shrug:

ever since i retired, the only structure I have are

medical appointments (they come in bunches!)
grocery store/meals
what does coachk want me to do today?

does checking TOTV count?

[LeRoySmith]

does checking TOTV count?

For me it counts mostly as entertainment (to see who you can aggravate) and a little informational (when I'm reading villagetinkers post).

[Aces4]

ever since i retired, the only structure I have are

medical appointments (they come in bunches!)
grocery store/meals
what does coachk want me to do today?

does checking TOTV count?

I rest my case.:BigApplause:

[justjim]

Of course (as already mentioned) there are several legitimate reasons for leaving TV. Then there are those of us that think we are getting too old and no longer have the energy to move and so we get on TOTV or a site like Facebook, You Tube or such and entertain ourselves. We watch sports, and “grunt, groan and grouch” about “things”and wish for “the good ol’ days” to return. Saturday or Sunday comes along and we have the ability to worship as we see fit. And it’s a great life but as someone said “it’s not permanent”! Oh, occasionally we still hit the little golf ball around too. Ain’t this a great country or what? BTW, we are all going to leave someday anyways. Fore!

[Topspinmo]

There is a name for this. The 'Death Spiral' has been forecasted in some areas for over a decade.

and you get what you ____ for. Fine for well off they can just move, but for unfortunate or middle class they’re stuck in mud.

[ChicagoNative]

“Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.” Yogi Berra

[Byte1]

The Villages is the "elephant graveyard" only instead of elephants migrating here for their last days, it's people.

[Battlebasset]

I'm leaving for all of them except 2. Add the entitled asshats that make daily life a challenge. I'm one of those in late 50s in the south. THE SOUTH SUCKS.

And pray tell, where are you going where there are no asshats?

[Battlebasset]

Compared to NJ:

1. Cheaper
2. Better weather
3. Government that stays (mostly) out of my life.
4. People are friendlier. Yes, some are jerks. I stay away from those. I can count the time on one finger where I got paired with someone for golf that was a jerk. Most are lovely folks, with great life stories. Hope they think the same about me!
5. A crazy amount of things to do.

Sure, you can find someplace cheaper to live. But if that was my goal I would have moved to the middle of nowhere in any state other than the NE, West coast, Illinois (see a pattern here?).

All things considered, happy I made the move!

[Battlebasset]

The Villages is the "elephant graveyard" only instead of elephants migrating here for their last days, it's people.

Everyone dies, no matter where they live. The statistical probability is 1 for all of us. You can spend your last days where you have an opportunity to have more fulfillment, lower costs, or some balance of both. But the end result is the same.

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee".

[Pballer]

You might need a new source for news.
UM - in May 2024
“ Today, U.S. News & World Report announced that Florida is again ranked #1 in the nation for education. The publication’s Best State ranking is based on a combination of strong performances in higher education and K-12 metrics.”

Florida Ranked #1 in Education for Second Year in a Row (https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/florida-ranked-1-in-education-for-second-year-in-a-row.stml)

I don't know how US News does these rankings. If you look at the objective evidence of SAT scores, Florida ranks near the bottom.

[ithos]

I don't know how US News does these rankings. If you look at the objective evidence of SAT scores, Florida ranks near the bottom.

You really are one who should not chastise another poster of not looking at objective evidence. If you take a look at the results of SAT scores showing participation rates you will see that Florida had 90% of students take the test while some states had as few as 1%. Average SAT Scores by State (Most Recent) (https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-sat-scores-by-state-most-recent)

No doubt some small states like Connecticut and Colorado fared a little better because they have a smaller population and higher income. Florida did comparatively well compared to states that had similar participation rates. And if you consider how many immigrants and non English speaking students we have, I think FL does an excellent job.

I am very proud of my adopted state. You should be too.
(stats from US News)