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Papa_lecki
08-01-2024, 06:57 AM
It seems Spanish Springs will need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years.
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in. We all see an office building getting a facelift every 20 or 30 years. Same concept.

Are the loss of the 3 restaurants recently a sign (not to mention some of the other places that closed - that wine/beer place)?

SS is in a tough location - I think of amount of housing in all 4 directions. SS doesn’t have many villagers to the north or east.
That was okay when it was only SS and LSL - it was a reasonable drive from LSL area to SS.
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently,

UNLESS - SS gets a renovation. New concept, new retail new restaurants.

dewilson58
08-01-2024, 07:14 AM
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in.

Does the Developer have "that many" rentals in the area??

Brownwood, yes............but in SS??

VApeople
08-01-2024, 07:37 AM
"The old order changeth, yielding place to new, and God fulfills himself in many ways."

That was true in the days of King Arthur and is still true today.

Ham_and_Cheese
08-01-2024, 07:55 AM
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently.I've been thinking the same while I've been looking at houses for sale and where we might want to buy

Is the "north" getting outdated? Is the "middle" the best place to buy? Or is the "south" going to be the place to be in the coming years?

These are some of the questions I ask myself while browsing the homes for sale
.

Normal
08-01-2024, 08:03 AM
It seems Spanish Springs will need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years.
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in. We all see an office building getting a facelift every 20 or 30 years. Same concept.

Are the loss of the 3 restaurants recently a sign (not to mention some of the other places that closed - that wine/beer place)?

SS is in a tough location - I think of amount of housing in all 4 directions. SS doesn’t have many villagers to the north or east.
That was okay when it was only SS and LSL - it was a reasonable drive from LSL area to SS.
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently,

UNLESS - SS gets a renovation. New concept, new retail new restaurants.

We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

Could income verses buying power for that area being reduced because of age and fixed returns be the problem? As we get older, maybe we don’t want to to go to the squares and spend like we used to? Perhaps that may be the major issue.

asianthree
08-01-2024, 08:12 AM
In 2007, we traveled to SS for pretty much anything. LSL was just getting started, with mostly developer owned sites.

2010-2016 living LSL area we traveled to SS couple times a month, LSL maybe 6 times a month.

Still living in LSL area once Brownwood, had decent occupancy, we traveled to SS once every quarter, just because there wasn’t much that interested us. LSL we might have gone to once a month, Brownwood maybe once a week. Never been a fan of Square music, rarely eat out, because can make it better at home.

My guess is once Middleton and Eastport has decent occupancy, we may travel there the most ( we are south of 44) It’s far closer than SS (50-60 minutes).

I hope SS gets better restaurants and venues, to keep it a viable square. But for us unless it’s something spectacular, we will stop at our once a year doctor visits.

dewilson58
08-01-2024, 08:16 AM
We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

Could income verses buying power for that area being reduced because of age and fixed returns be the problem? As we get older, maybe we don’t want to to go to the squares and spend like we used to? Perhaps that may be the major issue.

As SS residents don't travel South of 44. :beer3:

Normal
08-01-2024, 08:26 AM
As SS residents don't travel South of 44. :beer3:

The original problem is the area is in a “painted corner” for fixed income patrons catering to a smaller crowd the the rest of the villages. Attritional turn over will take a natural path that will direct lower pricing and different venues.

vintageogauge
08-01-2024, 08:46 AM
There was a large article about what is in the works just a day or two after Gator's announcement in the Daily Sun, much of the square is being remodeled with new business tenants under contract but they stated they will announce their names in the near future, they did however note that Planet Fitness I believe it's called is moving into the Rialto which is being remodeled for them so there is a lot going on behind the scenes. That being said we rarely go up there, tried the new Italian restaurant when it opened and was not impressed at all, won't go back to that one. They're not going to forget about the northern residents.

BlueStarAirlines
08-01-2024, 08:50 AM
We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

Could income verses buying power for that area being reduced because of age and fixed returns be the problem? As we get older, maybe we don’t want to to go to the squares and spend like we used to? Perhaps that may be the major issue.

This is us and most of the folks we know. We have lived here almost two years and have been to SS once. LSL maybe 10 times, with Brownwood getting most of our time and money. Eastport will be a frequent destination once it opens. There just isn't anything to draw folks up that far....even the shopping isn't a draw.

BlueStarAirlines
08-01-2024, 08:53 AM
they did however note that Planet Fitness I believe it's called is moving into the Rialto which is being remodeled for them so there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

Thats another Genesis health club. Roughly 7x-10x times more expensive per month than Planet Fitness (speaking as a non-Medicare customer).

Michael 61
08-01-2024, 09:20 AM
I’ve been a villager now for a year and a half. When I first arrived, I was spending a lot of time at all three squares (4 if you count Sawgrass). I would cart up to Spanish Springs about 3 times a month. Now, I’ll wait for my favorite bands to play at Brownwood, rather than carting way up to Spanish Springs. I now go up there maybe once a month if that, but only if I have a reason, like tickets for something at the Sharon, and then I’ll eat dinner at Coastal Del Mar or Amerikanos if I’m there. There isn’t much else of a draw for me to Spanish Springs. I’m not a shopper, so that’s not something important to me. I do hope that Spanish Springs flourishes for those that live up at the north section and enjoy that square.

Snakster66
08-01-2024, 09:43 AM
SS is where bowling is. So I know that will be a draw for me to head there. If I can find a league (team) that has a need for someone.

Stu from NYC
08-01-2024, 09:53 AM
I’ve been a villager now for a year and a half. When I first arrived, I was spending a lot of time at all three squares (4 if you count Sawgrass). I would cart up to Spanish Springs about 3 times a month. Now, I’ll wait for my favorite bands to play at Brownwood, rather than carting way up to Spanish Springs. I now go up there maybe once a month if that, but only if I have a reason, like tickets for something at the Sharon, and then I’ll eat dinner at Coastal Del Mar or Amerikanos if I’m there. There isn’t much else of a draw for me to Spanish Springs. I’m not a shopper, so that’s not something important to me. I do hope that Spanish Springs flourishes for those that live up at the north section and enjoy that square.

It seems to me that the longer people live here the less they go to the squares to listen to music and as a result dont frequent those restaurants. It applies to us for sure

Bogie Shooter
08-01-2024, 09:55 AM
If you don’t live in the SS area why would your opinion really mean anything if you’re not a frequent visitor.
The post, I live south SS and never go there, SO WHAT? Who cares if you don’t? You have really added nothing.

vintageogauge
08-01-2024, 10:14 AM
If you don’t live in the SS area why would your opinion really mean anything if you’re not a frequent visitor.
The post, I live south SS and never go there, SO WHAT? Who cares if you don’t? You have really added nothing.

By posting that we/they rarely visit SS gives a possible reason why the businesses are closing down. If everyone stated that they frequent SS the question of why the businesses are closing will go unanswered. So, the replies actually have added something.

kansasr
08-01-2024, 10:24 AM
It seems Spanish Springs will need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years.
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in. We all see an office building getting a facelift every 20 or 30 years. Same concept.

Are the loss of the 3 restaurants recently a sign (not to mention some of the other places that closed - that wine/beer place)?

SS is in a tough location - I think of amount of housing in all 4 directions. SS doesn’t have many villagers to the north or east.
That was okay when it was only SS and LSL - it was a reasonable drive from LSL area to SS.
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently,

UNLESS - SS gets a renovation. New concept, new retail new restaurants.

Perhaps you need to take a drive around that area as the residents in that area would argue that there are "few" of them. To the east you have Silver Lake, Country Club and Orange Blossom with over 2,800 homes in those 3 villages. To the west, as far as villages that border Morse Blvd you have more than 7,000 more homes. That doesn't even account for the villages in the area of the Savannah Center or up in Marion County, for whom Spanish Springs is their closest town square.

I don't think the problem is the number of residents.

Normal
08-01-2024, 11:13 AM
By posting that we/they rarely visit SS gives a possible reason why the businesses are closing down. If everyone stated that they frequent SS the question of why the businesses are closing will go unanswered. So, the replies actually have added something.

Absolutely!

Some live in their own bubble and don’t view our issues in a better, well rounded, holistic scope.

Bogie Shooter
08-01-2024, 12:24 PM
Absolutely!

Some live in their own bubble and don’t view our issues in a better, well rounded, holistic scope.

Better, well rounded, holistic ………
I went to Sawgrass once, was not impressed. How does this statement help anything.
Or for that matter for me to repeat the statement on multiple threads as some posters continually do, accomplishes nothing.
Let’s face it, those citing all these issues (restaurants closing) even if new places were opened…..would not drive from south of 44 to SS twice or even once a week to give them support.
Sorry I don’t see the connection.

Papa_lecki
08-01-2024, 12:49 PM
Does the Developer have "that many" rentals in the area??

Brownwood, yes............but in SS??

Doesn’t the Developer own all the commercial real estate in SS? I wasn’t really talking residential, was talking commercial.

Commercial rent for retail is based on retail revenue - if your revenue can’t meet rent, you are not renting.

Papa_lecki
08-01-2024, 12:51 PM
We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

We live JUST north of 44. We would go to SS 4 or 5 times a month, now maybe once a month. We would get a margarita, walk someplace different, eat.
If there was a renaissance at SS, we would go back - and I can walk to Brownwood.

Papa_lecki
08-01-2024, 12:59 PM
Perhaps you need to take a drive around that area as the residents in that area would argue that there are "few" of them. To the east you have Silver Lake, Country Club and Orange Blossom with over 2,800 homes in those 3 villages. To the west, as far as villages that border Morse Blvd you have more than 7,000 more homes. That doesn't even account for the villages in the area of the Savannah Center or up in Marion County, for whom Spanish Springs is their closest town square.

I don't think the problem is the number of residents.

Yes, there are villagers on all 4 sides, BUT
IF you go to Google Earth and draw a 2 mile radius around LSL, you hit houses the entire way (east only goes to 1.75 miles)

SS, north and east, houses stop at 1.5 miles.
West, housing goes to 3 and South goes a lot.

Brownwood is similar to the WEST and SOUTHWEST, Villagers to 0.5 miles
But the other 3 directions, East goes out to 4 miles
We know about south and north.

All I am saying, SS has less volume of customers close to it;
It needs a renaissance to draw us in, to cross 466.

dewilson58
08-01-2024, 01:00 PM
Doesn’t the Developer own all the commercial real estate in SS? I wasn’t really talking residential, was talking commercial.

Commercial rent for retail is based on retail revenue - if your revenue can’t meet rent, you are not renting.

If you were talking commercial, leasehold improvements are paid for by the tenants, not the landlord.

The landlord might finance it for the tenant..........but the tenant pays.

The bones are in place for retailers, the developer won't be the one to "need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years"

Papa_lecki
08-01-2024, 01:00 PM
Better, well rounded, holistic ………
I went to Sawgrass once, was not impressed. How does this statement help anything.
Or for that matter for me to repeat the statement on multiple threads as some posters continually do, accomplishes nothing.
Let’s face it, those citing all these issues (restaurants closing) even if new places were opened…..would not drive from south of 44 to SS twice or even once a week to give them support.
Sorry I don’t see the connection.

We would, if SS had the best restaurants and best retail, we would take the golf cart - getting there is half the fun
From Brownwood area, SS is probably as close as Eastport will be (just a guess)

kansasr
08-01-2024, 01:12 PM
Doesn’t the Developer own all the commercial real estate in SS? I wasn’t really talking residential, was talking commercial.

Commercial rent for retail is based on retail revenue - if your revenue can’t meet rent, you are not renting.

Pretty much.....orange areas are Developer owned, blue areas VCCDD

Blueblaze
08-01-2024, 03:33 PM
Not sure why anyone would care how often someone south of 44 comes to Spanish. For the thousands of us who live on the North side, the apparent exodus is very concerning -- and stupid, if there is no plan to revitalize it. If Spanish dies, it will hurt all of our home values -- even you folks down South. Why would someone buy the "lifestyle", even below 44, if it becomes obvious that the current developer generation is just going to jerk the rug out, the moment all the new houses are sold?

As for the notion that nobody goes to Spanish for music any more, try to find a parking spot next January. We don't even bother trying to get in during the high season. You can't even find a place to park a golfcart. There is PLENTY of traffic. If it's dying from lack of interest, it certainly isn't the Villagers who are the problem.

Normal
08-01-2024, 05:32 PM
Yes, there are villagers on all 4 sides, BUT
IF you go to Google Earth and draw a 2 mile radius around LSL, you hit houses the entire way (east only goes to 1.75 miles)

SS, north and east, houses stop at 1.5 miles.
West, housing goes to 3 and South goes a lot.

Brownwood is similar to the WEST and SOUTHWEST, Villagers to 0.5 miles
But the other 3 directions, East goes out to 4 miles
We know about south and north.

All I am saying, SS has less volume of customers close to it;
It needs a renaissance to draw us in, to cross 466.

They need to advertise in Leesburg and Lady Lake more. Fliers in the trailer park development on Lake Yale could help bring in more of a crowd too. Perhaps even Marion Market could be hit with advertisements on the entertainment schedule.

The best chance for its survival would be more local attendance and flavor.

vintageogauge
08-01-2024, 05:37 PM
Better, well rounded, holistic ………
I went to Sawgrass once, was not impressed. How does this statement help anything.
Or for that matter for me to repeat the statement on multiple threads as some posters continually do, accomplishes nothing.
Let’s face it, those citing all these issues (restaurants closing) even if new places were opened…..would not drive from south of 44 to SS twice or even once a week to give them support.
Sorry I don’t see the connection.

Your statement, not being impressed with Sawgrass, doesn't help anything because the question of why Sawgrass is losing business was not asked nor is it losing businesses. This particular topic about SS is helped with the answers that the OP is receiving.

Bogie Shooter
08-01-2024, 05:41 PM
Your statement, not being impressed with Sawgrass, doesn't help anything because the question of why Sawgrass is losing business was not asked nor is it losing businesses. This particular topic about SS is helped with the answers that the OP is receiving.

//////

Normal
08-01-2024, 05:46 PM
Your statement, not being impressed with Sawgrass, doesn't help anything because the question of why Sawgrass is losing business was not asked nor is it losing businesses. This particular topic about SS is helped with the answers that the OP is receiving.

Not any of this is helping the SS area. What is, is what is. Foot traffic needs to increase there. Seasonal influxes won’t save the area. Local non Villagers who occupy more than half the circumference of its retail zone need to be involved? It can’t just be catering to “Villagers”.

Marathon Man
08-01-2024, 08:03 PM
If you don’t live in the SS area why would your opinion really mean anything if you’re not a frequent visitor.
The post, I live south SS and never go there, SO WHAT? Who cares if you don’t? You have really added nothing.

WOW!! The point is that the expansion south and its new venues creates a situation where fewer people are traveling north to SS. That is verified by the many comments.

tophcfa
08-01-2024, 09:12 PM
Not sure why anyone would care how often someone south of 44 comes to Spanish. For the thousands of us who live on the North side, the apparent exodus is very concerning -- and stupid, if there is no plan to revitalize it. If Spanish dies, it will hurt all of our home values -- even you folks down South. Why would someone buy the "lifestyle", even below 44, if it becomes obvious that the current developer generation is just going to jerk the rug out, the moment all the new houses are sold?

As for the notion that nobody goes to Spanish for music any more, try to find a parking spot next January. We don't even bother trying to get in during the high season. You can't even find a place to park a golfcart. There is PLENTY of traffic. If it's dying from lack of interest, it certainly isn't the Villagers who are the problem.
Good post, agree. I would add that part of the problem with SS is that new homes aren’t being sold in the area so attractions have been diverted south to put a shine on that area, at the expense of SS. Spanish Springs used to have a weekly farmers market, got equal bookings for the most popular bands, was the focus of many “special events”, and had a happy “two” hours. By moving most of that south, patrons that support the business have followed the attractions. I don’t fault the developers for closing Katie Bells or the movie theater, but diverting attractions away from the area has definitely not helped. And as much I hated to see the recent closings of three establishments in the square, all three places were basically bars that served mediocre and unhealthy pub food with very inconsistent service and attracted late night clientele that frequently showed up in the police log. Hopefully the closed establishments will be replaced with respectable businesses that aren’t late night hangouts for younger trouble making non Villagers.

MrChip72
08-01-2024, 10:23 PM
SS is the most inferior setup of all of the squares as far as watching the live entertainment. Limited seating and sightlines, and the acoustics are all over the place. Not a very good restaurant selection, we went to Bella Vita and it was BAD, worst restaurant in TV hands down for service and food. We went to Costa Verde and it was average but double the price of the non-Villages places with similar quality offerings. We go to Brownwood all the time and Sawgrass on occasion, same with LSL if it's a band we want to see. It's possible/likely that we will not visit SS ever again other than going to The Sharon for shows.

FloridaGuy66
08-01-2024, 10:41 PM
Perhaps you need to take a drive around that area as the residents in that area would argue that there are "few" of them. To the east you have Silver Lake, Country Club and Orange Blossom with over 2,800 homes in those 3 villages.

I don't think the problem is the number of residents.

You're right that the problem is not the number of residents. Many of those homes have an excess of people, often three generations living in a smaller home even.

It's unfortunate, but Silver Lake and Orange Blossom are the high drug use areas of TV. The people involved in that are unlikely to be dining at the fancy restaurants in Spanish Springs. Every week I read in the paper about people from those areas being arrested for drugs or violent crimes. Fortunately, it seems to be isolated to those Villages and you almost never see anything like that south of LSL. It seems obvious that the people into that sort of thing actively choose those specific Villages to move into.

Two Bills
08-02-2024, 03:02 AM
You're right that the problem is not the number of residents. Many of those homes have an excess of people, often three generations living in a smaller home even.

It's unfortunate, but Silver Lake and Orange Blossom are the high drug use areas of TV. The people involved in that are unlikely to be dining at the fancy restaurants in Spanish Springs. Every week I read in the paper about people from those areas being arrested for drugs or violent crimes. Fortunately, it seems to be isolated to those Villages and you almost never see anything like that south of LSL. It seems obvious that the people into that sort of thing actively choose those specific Villages to move into.

Really?:shrug:

Ignatz
08-02-2024, 04:56 AM
Better, well rounded, holistic ………
I went to Sawgrass once, was not impressed. How does this statement help anything.
Or for that matter for me to repeat the statement on multiple threads as some posters continually do, accomplishes nothing.
Let’s face it, those citing all these issues (restaurants closing) even if new places were opened…..would not drive from south of 44 to SS twice or even once a week to give them support.
Sorry I don’t see the connection.

Nonsense! We go up to SS periodically because we really like Kilwins and Amerikanos. However it’s a long distance to get there. Maybe we’d go more often if there were some other draws for us there. As of now those draws are Sam’s Club, Target, and Chic Fil A. So yes those of us in the south can impact SS businesses.

Rwirish
08-02-2024, 05:06 AM
The new restaurant, Bella Vista is outstanding.

Planet Fitness is not located in SS. Genesis Health which is located in SS is relocating to the Rialto.

jimdecastro
08-02-2024, 05:53 AM
It seems Spanish Springs will need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years.
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in. We all see an office building getting a facelift every 20 or 30 years. Same concept.

Are the loss of the 3 restaurants recently a sign (not to mention some of the other places that closed - that wine/beer place)?

SS is in a tough location - I think of amount of housing in all 4 directions. SS doesn’t have many villagers to the north or east.
That was okay when it was only SS and LSL - it was a reasonable drive from LSL area to SS.
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently,

UNLESS - SS gets a renovation. New concept, new retail new restaurants.

So the point is they are renovating for money? What if they DIDN'T renovate? I am impressed they are putting money where they aren't selling homes anymore. By the way, I am south of Sawgrass.

CoachKandSportsguy
08-02-2024, 06:07 AM
WOW!! The point is that the expansion south and its new venues creates a situation where fewer people are traveling north to SS. That is verified by the many comments.

Watching retirement developments demographics and economics life cycle in real time. A great MBA business case for both the developer from a growth location to a mature, commodity location. .

damn it, i did it again.. .
stupid former employed brain. .

former employed guy

kansasr
08-02-2024, 06:19 AM
Really?:shrug:

You are much kinder in your response than I would have been......such ignorance.

skippy05
08-02-2024, 06:28 AM
SS pattern of decline is the same as the days of the old mall area falling into decline because of the new mall area pulling the commerce in its direction. Just drive down to Leesburg's Lake Square mall area to see how the former glory is long gone. In most cases even revitalizing efforts are short lived and the retail area is doomed. Get ready to embrace a struggling GNC and an abundance of shoe stores and short lived mom and pop retail.

Bogie Shooter
08-02-2024, 06:37 AM
You're right that the problem is not the number of residents. Many of those homes have an excess of people, often three generations living in a smaller home even.

It's unfortunate, but Silver Lake and Orange Blossom are the high drug use areas of TV. The people involved in that are unlikely to be dining at the fancy restaurants in Spanish Springs. Every week I read in the paper about people from those areas being arrested for drugs or violent crimes. Fortunately, it seems to be isolated to those Villages and you almost never see anything like that south of LSL. It seems obvious that the people into that sort of thing actively choose those specific Villages to move into.

Where did you get this info?
Many? Often?

ThirdOfFive
08-02-2024, 06:47 AM
I don't think that restaurants closing are necessarily a barometer of the business potential in an area. Statistically 80% of restaurants close within five years of opening. The restaurants that closed definitely had issues: I doubt that they'd have made it no matter which square they occupied. The restaurants that have started up there recently are excellent in my opinion and seem to have no problem attracting customers.

The squares are distinct from one another and all have different "vibes". Personally, I very much like the more laid-back atmosphere of Spanish Springs; seems not as rushed as LSL and Brownwood and parking is generally (though for sure not always) easier to find.

AND they have Kilwin's.

Robojo
08-02-2024, 06:49 AM
I've been thinking the same while I've been looking at houses for sale and where we might want to buy

Is the "north" getting outdated? Is the "middle" the best place to buy? Or is the "south" going to be the place to be in the coming years?

These are some of the questions I ask myself while browsing the homes for sale
.

I would reccomend renting for a year before you buy. I'm glad I did.

RosiePosie
08-02-2024, 07:10 AM
Does the Developer have "that many" rentals in the area??

Brownwood, yes............but in SS??

I believe he's talking about commercial property.

Hplaw
08-02-2024, 07:49 AM
:ohdear:SS is the most inferior setup of all of the squares as far as watching the live entertainment. Limited seating and sightlines, and the acoustics are all over the place. Not a very good restaurant selection, we went to Bella Vita and it was BAD, worst restaurant in TV hands down for service and food. We went to Costa Verde and it was average but double the price of the non-Villages places with similar quality offerings. We go to Brownwood all the time and Sawgrass on occasion, same with LSL if it's a band we want to see. It's possible/likely that we will not visit SS ever again other than going to The Sharon for shows.

asianthree
08-02-2024, 07:51 AM
So in SS yesterday after dentist. We stopped at Kilwins, then a first time at Blondies. Got a pastry at Panera. Hope for a great restaurant in SS is always on everyone’s list, instead of just mediocre at best. Of course that a hope for any area of TV.

In its heyday SS drew ton of $$, not just High season. No retail can survive on Jan/Feb/Mar business. At least the developers haven’t left SS, it’s to their benefit that it survives, and hopefully with the Reno’s and apartments, there will reasons for wanting to stop in SS.

As everyone says the “ reason you live north” is because of all of the retail and the hospital and the doctors offices. Just that statement alone should keep Spanish springs fairly busy, as long as in and out of the bubble clientele continue to keep it alive.
But SS really needs multiple great brick and mortar to attract that business, year round.

sowtime444
08-02-2024, 07:54 AM
When I called The Villages to inquire about the apartments for rent, I asked if they are making any other rentals anytime soon. They said the Rialto building is going to become apartments.

I then talked to a realtor friend of mine, who has friends that work for The Villages. They told him that the Rialto apartments will have a rooftop pool!

He also said that the entire square is getting a redesign to be more like Brownwood. The band will move to the corner where the water feature is in front of the Rialto. And the audience will be in the opposite corner with Brownwood style seating.

Sandy and Ed
08-02-2024, 07:59 AM
This is us and most of the folks we know. We have lived here almost two years and have been to SS once. LSL maybe 10 times, with Brownwood getting most of our time and money. Eastport will be a frequent destination once it opens. There just isn't anything to draw folks up that far....even the shopping isn't a draw.
That depends on where you live. Those that live betwixt the 466’s give both LSL and Brownwood and SS action. SS especially being on the way north to BJ, Sam’s, etc. Besides home of Chico’s. 466 itself has its own draw. Don’t sell the northern areas of TV short. Besides, the infrastructure has withstood the test of time. Not a wasteland by any means.

Joe C.
08-02-2024, 08:12 AM
There's a TON of restaurants outside of SS within a few minutes car driving or others accessible by golf cart. Restaurants within TV are somewhat more expensive. Possibly high overhead costs. Within each of the town squares, there are a few places to eat. But outside of them, I think SS has the most eateries.

As far as the actual town squares go, SS is crowded most nights, and actually DOES have a farmer's market on Saturdays. SS the oldest town square, so it is in need of an update. Villagers don't need to travel to other squares unless they want to do so to get entertainment, groceries, etc. There's enough around each area for them to enjoy.

Lottoguy
08-02-2024, 08:17 AM
With the recent addition of Hobby Lobby and now Costco the north continues to look very inviting.

asianthree
08-02-2024, 08:28 AM
There's a TON of restaurants outside of SS within a few minutes car driving or others accessible by golf cart.
Villagers don't need to travel to other squares unless they want to do so to get entertainment, groceries, etc. There's enough around each area for them to enjoy.

Problem is many do go outside of SS for restaurants, so a good reason for developers to Reno and bring in new to attract people into SS.

As long as we have been in the villages, residents have always traveled to different town squares either for restaurants, meeting friends or following their favorite band.

A square cannot just survive with those who surround it. Spanish Springs needs new life to bring in clientele that spends money at the brick and mortar establishments.. thankfully developers see that as well. For their benefit and residents from all of the bubble

asianthree
08-02-2024, 08:31 AM
With the recent addition of Hobby Lobby and now Costco the north continues to look very inviting.

I would consider between the 6’s as mid TV, where Costco will draw in and out of TV.

North is above the 6’s for us, but just an opinion.

BostonRich
08-02-2024, 09:10 AM
SS does have the unique advantage that it is on busy 441 and does draw from outside of the Villages which can bring in a lot of business.

I haven't heard anything about a major redesign but I hope they learnt something from Sawgrass Grove and orient things so that the sun sets behind the audience and not in their eyes. The stage can have some type of shade protector for the bands.

sallyg
08-02-2024, 09:22 AM
Love Spanish Springs town square because it is not a large as LSL or Brownwood. Are there any real stats on shop turnover or shopping traffic? I hope it continues to prosper - whether some shops and restaurants may change it is a nice alternative. Not sure what this posting was trying to do. Steer people away? Why?

BostonRich
08-02-2024, 09:40 AM
Unfortunately it's kind of a ghost town with three restaurants suddenly vacant.

Although the new restaurants may be good, they are on the expensive side and we are losing the ability to go to the square more frequently for a quick inexpensive bite.

Papa_lecki
08-02-2024, 10:26 AM
When I called The Villages to inquire about the apartments for rent, I asked if they are making any other rentals anytime soon. They said the Rialto building is going to become apartments.

I then talked to a realtor friend of mine, who has friends that work for The Villages. They told him that the Rialto apartments will have a rooftop pool!

He also said that the entire square is getting a redesign to be more like Brownwood. The band will move to the corner where the water feature is in front of the Rialto. And the audience will be in the opposite corner with Brownwood style seating.

I am not surprised, this is the type of facelift I was hoping for.

Jayhawk
08-02-2024, 10:31 AM
although the new restaurants may be good, they are on the expensive side and we are losing the ability to go to the square more frequently for a quick inexpensive bite.

105083

wolfie
08-02-2024, 10:45 AM
What you should be asking is price of house Is it close to stores and shops? Is it crowded ? is there a lot of noise, close to hospitals location, location, location, is very important. views? some people would like to look at the golf course or lake or the forest. We looked at 115 houses four months, the Lord's been good to us so money wasn't quite a problem, but we wanted the best location for our money and I refused to pay for a bond. We found what we were looking for in an older area, with a view of a lake, Golf Course , cul-de-sac much cheaper than a new location. yes we did put a investment in the house. Well, let's face it whether it's a new house or old house you're gonna invest money into it. We actually customize our house to the way we wanted. I would say 100,000 so I paid exactly $500,000 total for what I would paid $1 million plus you cannot get to three views in the villages anywhere, get compliments every time people come to our house, they cannot believe it, We love the old neighborhood. our Palms are 20 years old besides compliments, they always looking to buy the trees. You should take that in consideration, the older houses are also further apart from each other, taxes are low. That's what you should be looking at.

Villagesgal
08-02-2024, 11:09 AM
I like that SS is evolving with new businesses and restaurants. I live north of 466 and go to SS and LSL often. Brownwood is too far and nothing special and I won't go to the others farther south either. Too far to drive. I think most set a comfortable distance and won't go beyond that. The Villages will make sure every area has something for their people.

coleprice
08-02-2024, 01:28 PM
My wife and I took a walk around Spanish Spring's shopping and restaurant areas during a break that the evening band was taking and noticed a high "vacancy factor" (a lot of shop space was empty). Spanish Springs is a great location for shops and restaurants, providing that the rental costs for space is in line with the volume of patronage. Given a little time, I would expect the rental costs to align with the patronage and the vacancy factor to drop considerably.

La lamy
08-02-2024, 02:17 PM
I would be very disappointed if SS disappeared. For those in the historic section it’s a necessity!

npwalters
08-02-2024, 04:25 PM
The original problem is the area is in a “painted corner” for fixed income patrons catering to a smaller crowd the the rest of the villages. Attritional turn over will take a natural path that will direct lower pricing and different venues.

You need to actually come to the Spanish Springs area and take a look around. Yes, there are manufactured homes in the historic district but there are many very nice villages south of there. The most recent report by TV said that the average for preowned homes in this area was more than $400K. Hardly the lower pricing you allude to.

The main reason more people go to Brownwood is that it is closer to almost half of the homes since TV has expanded south of the turnpike. That will change again when Eastport opens up. I live north of 466 and only go to Brownwood for specific events. I drive my car when I do since it's a 50 minute trip by golf cart for me.

dewilson58
08-02-2024, 04:32 PM
You need to actually come to the Spanish Springs area and take a look around. Yes, there are manufactured homes in the historic district but there are many very nice villages south of there. The most recent report by TV said that the average for preowned homes in this area was more than $400K. Hardly the lower pricing you allude to.

The main reason more people go to Brownwood is that it is closer to almost half of the homes since TV has expanded south of the turnpike. That will change again when Eastport opens up. I live north of 466 and only go to Brownwood for specific events. I drive my car when I do since it's a 50 minute trip by golf cart for me.

We love each of the Squares................including SS.
It's a good 45 minute cart ride, but we "enjoy the journey".
We like the Square & the area.
I never shopped there, so I haven't missed the closures.
Went to Katie Belle's a couple times, haven't missed that either.
If people spend money, create demand..........more things will develop.
Whining about the old days ain't going to move the needle.

FloridaGuy66
08-02-2024, 04:58 PM
With the recent addition of Hobby Lobby and now Costco the north continues to look very inviting.

That's 6 miles/15 minutes from Spanish Springs. Not the same area at all. Brownwood is 8 miles/16 minutes to that Hobby Lobby even.

FloridaGuy66
08-02-2024, 05:03 PM
Where did you get this info?
Many? Often?

Here's three drug arrests from people living in the drug side of the Villages. I only went back 60 days since I don't have time to post 100's of incidents.

https://www.**************.com/2024/06/11/villager-in-golf-cart-who-ran-stop-arrested-with-methamphetamine

https://www.**************.com/2024/07/22/villager-nabbed-with-illicit-substance-in-golf-cart-at-town-square/

Meth and Mayhem: Florida Man Caught in Golf Cart Chase (https://espnswfl.com/2024/08/01/meth-and-mayhem-florida-man-golf-cart-chase/)

LeRoySmith
08-02-2024, 05:06 PM
Here's three drug arrests from people living in the drug side of the Villages. I only went back 60 days since I don't have time to post 100's of incidents.

https://www.**************.com/2024/06/11/villager-in-golf-cart-who-ran-stop-arrested-with-methamphetamine

https://www.**************.com/2024/07/22/villager-nabbed-with-illicit-substance-in-golf-cart-at-town-square/

Meth and Mayhem: Florida Man Caught in Golf Cart Chase (https://espnswfl.com/2024/08/01/meth-and-mayhem-florida-man-golf-cart-chase/)

For some reason I think of meth as a young poorer person's drug, obviously not.

Pinkgirl
08-02-2024, 05:10 PM
I would think the only way to revive SS is to completely reinvent the town. The developer IS putting some money into it but cosmetics is not going to do it. That area does seem to be on a slightly lower income level compared to the South. I think a true "Market" town could be a big draw for people. Daily booths of fresh fruits and veggies, homemade jewelry and crafts, candles, lotions, wines and tastings, ect. It would be like an everlasting Farmers Market/ Festival Area. This would draw people from the South up as well, I think. Opinions???

dewilson58
08-02-2024, 05:16 PM
I would think the only way to revive SS is to completely reinvent the town. The developer IS putting some money into it but cosmetics is not going to do it. That area does seem to be on a slightly lower income level compared to the South. I think a true "Market" town could be a big draw for people. Daily booths of fresh fruits and veggies, homemade jewelry and crafts, candles, lotions, wines and tastings, ect. It would be like an everlasting Farmers Market/ Festival Area. This would draw people from the South up as well, I think. Opinions???

Daily???
Brownwood's weekly market doesn't exactly fill the vendors' coffers.

Lots of walkers, not a lot of buyers.

Dond1959
08-02-2024, 05:17 PM
We live south of 44 and rarely go there. However, last week we went up to the new PGA Superstore and thought, hey let’s go by Blondies and get a drink. Unfortunately that day Blondies didn’t open until 4:00 and we were there around 2 pm. But the square was absolutely deserted. Just a few cars parked with a ton of spaces open. I couldn’t believe it. If you go to LSL or Brownwood the parking is packed even in the middle of the day. Of course in high season everything is packed, but can a square and the businesses survive on 4 to 5 months of boom and then crickets?

Of course on 441 there are a ton of restaurants and stores, maybe a lot of the business is being sucked away by those businesses.

justjim
08-02-2024, 05:32 PM
On 441 there are a ton of restaurants and stores, maybe a lot of business is being sucked away (from SS ) by these businesses. Post #70 could be on to something?

Bogie Shooter
08-02-2024, 07:08 PM
I would think the only way to revive SS is to completely reinvent the town. The developer IS putting some money into it but cosmetics is not going to do it. That area does seem to be on a slightly lower income level compared to the South. I think a true "Market" town could be a big draw for people. Daily booths of fresh fruits and veggies, homemade jewelry and crafts, candles, lotions, wines and tastings, ect. It would be like an everlasting Farmers Market/ Festival Area. This would draw people from the South up as well, I think. Opinions???

Those lower income level folks couldn’t shop daily. Little condescending don’t ya think?
Have a look at post #63……good advice.

asianthree
08-02-2024, 11:06 PM
I would think the only way to revive SS is to completely reinvent the town. The developer IS putting some money into it but cosmetics is not going to do it. That area does seem to be on a slightly lower income level compared to the South. I think a true "Market" town could be a big draw for people. Daily booths of fresh fruits and veggies, homemade jewelry and crafts, candles, lotions, wines and tastings, ect. It would be like an everlasting Farmers Market/ Festival Area. This would draw people from the South up as well, I think. Opinions???

One thing you will find in TV is you have no idea income level for many residents. That what is great about TV, nobody asks you what kind of house you live in, they ask what village do you live in and where are you from? Kind of a slap to say that a certain area seems to be on a slightly lower income level, without knowing them personally. Would you be surprised that there are more than one RR, that comes from SS area?

Residents already have a farmers market, in Brownwood that only one business sells out every Saturday, and that’s the French Master Baker. All of the tents at farmers markets, may do one or two days in different places, but the other 5 days they are working, to bring their products or produce to market. So NO a daily market wouldn’t have enough vendors.
There are already wine/beer/ chili ticketed events, at SS. Without the ticket events it would just be a bunch of people looking for free anything, that would produce very little sales.

Papa_lecki
08-03-2024, 05:46 AM
I would be very disappointed if SS disappeared. For those in the historic section it’s a necessity!

I dont think SS will go away.
I believe it needs a facelift - much like a commercial office building built in 1987 needs a refresh. I don’t know what the SS refresh actually will be. But Blondie’s is a start.

asianthree
08-03-2024, 06:25 AM
On 441 there are a ton of restaurants and stores, maybe a lot of business is being sucked away (from SS ) by these businesses. Post #70 could be on to something?

Banks, Furniture store, HD, Lowes, Publix, Panda Express, nail salon, mattress store, Car wash, Target, Dollar store, Pizza place, ABC are all located near SS.

Same business are also soon to be or already located at Trailwinds area. So don’t see much sucking away from SS

The exception is SS area has Michaels, Sam’s, Pool place, and more brick/mortar shopping than south. But for us glad retail stays far away. 90% of shopping comes right to our door.

mraines
08-03-2024, 08:00 AM
We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

Could income verses buying power for that area being reduced because of age and fixed returns be the problem? As we get older, maybe we don’t want to to go to the squares and spend like we used to? Perhaps that may be the major issue.
I live on the Historic side and I'm quite happy here with all the trees. We are close to much shopping and medical offices. I can get anywhere by golf cart. I don't understand the developer. He is planning to redo Paradise rec center, built Blondies, revamped a building next to Ay Jalisco (which still is empty). I still would rather live here and rarely travel to LSL let alone Brownwood or further.

BubblesandPat
08-03-2024, 08:03 AM
We don't go to SS very often unless there is an event there like a festival. I do wonder if the demographics in that area will change as sorry to say residents pass on and younger people buy these homes and renovate? They often have no bonds and bigger yards. Or are newcomers to the villages who are recently retired only attracted to the new sections? It's a shame the northern areas are so unique looking

Normal
08-03-2024, 10:50 AM
Economic news and Fed adjustments along with global markets indicate an incoming recession. Perhaps this and the economic aging demographic of the area are agitating the area? The weakening job numbers along with companies like Amazon, Starbucks, Proctor and Gamble etc pulling back on investment could all be prognostic of the future of SS.

Subscribe to read (https://www.ft.com/content/5219c0d5-34df-408b-8b94-5b6d1b2efb70?segmentId=b385c2ad-87ed-d8ff-aaec-0f8435cd42d9)

justjim
08-03-2024, 01:20 PM
We don't go to SS very often unless there is an event there like a festival. I do wonder if the demographics in that area will change as sorry to say residents pass on and younger people buy these homes and renovate? They often have no bonds and bigger yards. Or are newcomers to the villages who are recently retired only attracted to the new sections? It's a shame the northern areas are so unique looking

I can tell you that I’ve talked to several who live in the SS area and “historical side” who wouldn’t live anywhere else in The Villages. Some are relative newbees too. As everybody knows, the new section is “pushed” by the Developer but their sales associates will show you resales they have if you ask or tell them up front you want to look at resales too.

Papa_lecki
08-03-2024, 01:54 PM
Economic news and Fed adjustments along with global markets indicate an incoming recession. Perhaps this and the economic aging demographic of the area are agitating the area? The weakening job numbers along with companies like Amazon, Starbucks, Proctor and Gamble etc pulling back on investment could all be prognostic of the future of SS.

Subscribe to read (https://www.ft.com/content/5219c0d5-34df-408b-8b94-5b6d1b2efb70?segmentId=b385c2ad-87ed-d8ff-aaec-0f8435cd42d9)

Actually, this will HELP the villages. Someone in the late 50s, gets a package to leave work, decides to move to FLA 3 years early - with cash from the sale of their house.

Snakster66
08-03-2024, 04:37 PM
Actually, this will HELP the villages. Someone in the late 50s, gets a package to leave work, decides to move to FLA 3 years early - with cash from the sale of their house.

This describes me.

Except I didn’t get a package, I got a very attractive remote job. But, all else applies.

Michael 61
08-03-2024, 05:31 PM
Actually, this will HELP the villages. Someone in the late 50s, gets a package to leave work, decides to move to FLA 3 years early - with cash from the sale of their house.

That is exactly what happened to me, but I did not chose the Spanish Springs area.

margaretmattson
08-04-2024, 12:35 AM
By posting that we/they rarely visit SS gives a possible reason why the businesses are closing down. If everyone stated that they frequent SS the question of why the businesses are closing will go unanswered. So, the replies actually have added something.Commercial properties are not only closing in Spanish Springs. Just recently, Sonny's BBQ left Lake Sumter. The theatre in Brownwood closed and
several more. Plans for the new hospital has been scratched. It also appears business owners are not knocking the doors down in Middleton. Commercial sales there has been slow. A recently built coffee shop and other buildings are sitting empty with no interest. Big Box Stores like Costco and Hobby Lobby chose the area near Spanish Springs. It appears a "booming location" is in the eyes of the beholder especially for those with $$$$ to invest.

Marathon Man
08-04-2024, 07:19 AM
Commercial properties are not only closing in Spanish Springs. Just recently, Sonny's BBQ left Lake Sumter. The theatre in Brownwood closed and
several more. Plans for the new hospital has been scratched. It also appears business owners are not knocking the doors down in Middleton. Commercial sales there has been slow. A recently built coffee shop and other buildings are sitting empty with no interest. Big Box Stores like Costco and Hobby Lobby chose the area near Spanish Springs. It appears a "booming location" is in the eyes of the beholder especially for those with $$$$ to invest.

Booming? I think not.

Michael 61
08-04-2024, 07:26 AM
Commercial properties are not only closing in Spanish Springs. Just recently, Sonny's BBQ left Lake Sumter. The theatre in Brownwood closed and
several more. Plans for the new hospital has been scratched. It also appears business owners are not knocking the doors down in Middleton. Commercial sales there has been slow. A recently built coffee shop and other buildings are sitting empty with no interest. Big Box Stores like Costco and Hobby Lobby chose the area near Spanish Springs. It appears a "booming location" is in the eyes of the beholder especially for those with $$$$ to invest.

Do you think that the age demographics are also factored in as to where big box stores choose to build? I know folks in my parent’s age group still enjoy physically patronizing the big box stores on a regular basis, and being in close proximity is very important to them. Having a plethora of retail and shopping options appears not to be such an important factor to younger retirees. In fact, many want to be as far away as possible from the traffic and congestion caused by endless strip malls. It’s not uncommon for me to have several home deliveries daily from Amazon, Costco, Kroeger, UPS, etc.

The retail landscape is changing not just in The Villages, but everywhere.

Normal
08-04-2024, 07:50 AM
Do you think that the age demographics are also factored in as to where big box stores choose to build? I know folks in my parent’s age group still enjoy physically patronizing the big box stores on a regular basis, and being in close proximity is very important to them. Having a plethora of retail and shopping options appears not to be such an important factor to younger retirees. In fact, many want to be as far away as possible from the traffic and congestion caused by endless strip malls. It’s not uncommon for me to have several home deliveries daily from Amazon, Costco, Kroeger, UPS, etc.

The retail landscape is changing not just in The Villages, but everywhere.

I totally agree. The older generation doesn’t shop the same way. They are more hands on. They can’t seem to let go of the tactual experience and few even trust internet commerce.

Commercial real estate isn’t what it used to be as a whole anyway. It’s demise was assured after the COVID tide receded.

asianthree
08-04-2024, 08:03 AM
Commercial properties are not only closing in Spanish Springs. Just recently, Sonny's BBQ left Lake Sumter. The theatre in Brownwood closed and
several more. Plans for the new hospital has been scratched. It also appears business owners are not knocking the doors down in Middleton. Commercial sales there has been slow. A recently built coffee shop and other buildings are sitting empty with no interest. Big Box Stores like Costco and Hobby Lobby chose the area near Spanish Springs. It appears a "booming location" is in the eyes of the beholder especially for those with $$$$ to invest.

Brown theater close at Pandemic, and so far no movie houses are taking on sites due to lack of new releases. In fact at our other homes not in TV 11 theaters with 12-20 screens have closed.

Middleton is a construction zone and no new businesses (11) at last count with leases, can open until it’s safe to open. Citizens bank is on the outskirts of Middleton that’s as far as one can go. Coffee shop is too far in.

My guess is You work for Developers since You stated “Commercial sales are slow. If you don’t have that first hand knowledge then are you assuming.
Your demographic is very off for Costco, it’s in the “6’s”. Nowhere near Spanish Springs. Maybe you are confusing Sam’s club on 441, now that’s kind of in the general area of SS. SS did not renew leases for at least 3 restaurants that are now closed, along with couple empty store fronts when we were there last week.

You have been in TV for awhile, how long before you decided TV is no longer making you happy?

Freehiker
08-04-2024, 08:16 AM
It seems Spanish Springs will need a major investment of capital in the next 3 to 5 years.
Bottom line, Developer needs/wants to keep rents strong and flowing in. We all see an office building getting a facelift every 20 or 30 years. Same concept.

Are the loss of the 3 restaurants recently a sign (not to mention some of the other places that closed - that wine/beer place)?

SS is in a tough location - I think of amount of housing in all 4 directions. SS doesn’t have many villagers to the north or east.
That was okay when it was only SS and LSL - it was a reasonable drive from LSL area to SS.
Now, those around LSL, can go south, not only to Brownwood, but Sawgrass and soon 2 more areas.
Residents around Brownwood and south, will do the same thing, traveling north to SS less frequently,

UNLESS - SS gets a renovation. New concept, new retail new restaurants.


All 3 of those restaurants had terrible food. The only other thing they offered was booze, which you can get at any other number of places in SS.

Coastal Del Mar and Bella Vista have good food, and they’re packed and constantly have a wait.

There’s plenty of demand in SS, but you can’t serve crap food and expect people to still come.

Cliff Fr
08-04-2024, 09:44 AM
SS pattern of decline is the same as the days of the old mall area falling into decline because of the new mall area pulling the commerce in its direction. Just drive down to Leesburg's Lake Square mall area to see how the former glory is long gone. In most cases even revitalizing efforts are short lived and the retail area is doomed. Get ready to embrace a struggling GNC and an abundance of shoe stores and short lived mom and pop retail.

The big reason for the decline of ALL shopping malls is the dominance of Amazon for retail purchases

Bogie Shooter
08-04-2024, 09:52 AM
You have been in TV for awhile, how long before you decided TV is no longer making you happy?

👍👍👍

FloridaGuy66
08-04-2024, 10:15 AM
Big Box Stores like Costco and Hobby Lobby chose the area near Spanish Springs. It appears a "booming location" is in the eyes of the beholder especially for those with $$$$ to invest.

The Hobby Lobby and Costco is 6 miles from Spanish Springs, 4.1 miles to LSL, and 8 miles from Brownwood. It's certainly not "near" Spanish Springs.

JMintzer
08-04-2024, 11:11 AM
Do you think that the age demographics are also factored in as to where big box stores choose to build? I know folks in my parent’s age group still enjoy physically patronizing the big box stores on a regular basis, and being in close proximity is very important to them. Having a plethora of retail and shopping options appears not to be such an important factor to younger retirees. In fact, many want to be as far away as possible from the traffic and congestion caused by endless strip malls. It’s not uncommon for me to have several home deliveries daily from Amazon, Costco, Kroeger, UPS, etc.

The retail landscape is changing not just in The Villages, but everywhere.

Do you really think that "Big Box Stores" will commit to that much capital, just to satisfy the boomers who will soon be "aging out" of The Villages?

Michael 61
08-04-2024, 11:28 AM
Do you really think that "Big Box Stores" will commit to that much capital, just to satisfy the boomers who will soon be "aging out" of The Villages?

You’re probably right - I was just throwing out a question as to what demographics retailers look at before investing in a storefront. There’s been some talk here on TOTV about the lack of retail south of 44 (though I expect that to continue to slowly change in the years ahead), but in my interactions with the new residents south of 44, most don’t bring up or seem to care about the sparse retail down here. It appears to be a bigger issue for the older residents up North. That’s all fine, but there appears to me anyway, to be a bit of generational split on this issue.

Papa_lecki
08-04-2024, 11:38 AM
Do you think that the age demographics are also factored in as to where big box stores choose to build? I know folks in my parent’s age group still enjoy physically patronizing the big box stores on a regular basis, and being in close proximity is very important to them. Having a plethora of retail and shopping options appears not to be such an important factor to younger retirees. In fact, many want to be as far away as possible from the traffic and congestion caused by endless strip malls. It’s not uncommon for me to have several home deliveries daily from Amazon, Costco, Kroeger, UPS, etc.

The retail landscape is changing not just in The Villages, but everywhere.

My wife and I have different shopping habits at home vs The Villages.
At home, we do MUCH more online shopping, in TV, we get in golf cart more often and hit the Brick and Mortar.

JMintzer
08-04-2024, 12:02 PM
You’re probably right - I was just throwing out a question as to what demographics retailers look at before investing in a storefront. There’s been some talk here on TOTV about the lack of retail south of 44 (though I expect that to continue to slowly change in the years ahead), but in my interactions with the new residents south of 44, most don’t bring up or seem to care about the sparse retail down here. It appears to be a bigger issue for the older residents up North. That’s all fine, but there appears to me anyway, to be a bit of generational split on this issue.

They tell you they don't care, so they don't have to admit that they really want it, but don't yet have it...

tophcfa
08-04-2024, 12:14 PM
My wife and I have different shopping habits at home vs The Villages.
At home, we do MUCH more online shopping, in TV, we get in golf cart more often and hit the Brick and Mortar.

Same with us. Up north it’s about a 50 mile round trip to get to most brick and mortar retailers, so we get just about everything, except food, delivered to our northern home via Amazon et all. From our Villages home, we love being able to jump in a golf cart and take a short ride to pick up just about anything we need. I just wish we could get to the Lighthouse Seafood store on 466 via golf cart, but the seafood at Fresh Market is a good alternative.

Marathon Man
08-04-2024, 02:11 PM
You’re probably right - I was just throwing out a question as to what demographics retailers look at before investing in a storefront. There’s been some talk here on TOTV about the lack of retail south of 44 (though I expect that to continue to slowly change in the years ahead), but in my interactions with the new residents south of 44, most don’t bring up or seem to care about the sparse retail down here. It appears to be a bigger issue for the older residents up North. That’s all fine, but there appears to me anyway, to be a bit of generational split on this issue.

Well said. Those that continue to point out the 'disadvantage' of being farther away from retail (and golf) simply don't understand what is important to some, is not to others.

gorillarick
08-04-2024, 06:42 PM
The restaurants that recently closed in SS committed suicide. If you stop cleaning, provide poor service, and cold food. Guess what.

Now Katie Bell's was a different story. Never heard why it closed. Happening place. The most fun inside venue in TV. Music and dancing on a real dance floor.
Who, why, was it killed ?

I still like SS. Americano's is my favorite restaurant in TV, unless I want to spend over $100 on a meal. Not so often.
Talking about over $100; and it seems every FMK has a fatal flaw - if not just attitude, , ,

LeRoySmith
08-04-2024, 06:46 PM
Americano's is my favorite restaurant in TV

I like Americanos too but the water tastes horrible there.

npwalters
08-04-2024, 07:17 PM
The Hobby Lobby and Costco is 6 miles from Spanish Springs, 4.1 miles to LSL, and 8 miles from Brownwood. It's certainly not "near" Spanish Springs.

Much closer than south of the turnpike. I can get there pretty easy in my golf cart.

asianthree
08-04-2024, 08:00 PM
The restaurants that recently closed in SS committed suicide. If you stop cleaning, provide poor service, and cold food. Guess what.

Now Katie Bell's was a different story. Never heard why it closed. Happening place. The most fun inside venue in TV. Music and dancing on a real dance floor.
Who, why, was it killed ?

I still like SS. Americano's is my favorite restaurant in TV, unless I want to spend over $100 on a meal. Not so often.
Talking about over $100; and it seems every FMK has a fatal flaw - if not just attitude, , ,
Easy answer it was a moneypit with zero profit. KB’s was developer owned. Our lifestyle package included, 2 rounds of golf on any championship for two, tennis, classes, dinner at Palmer for two, anything on the menu, and lastly dinner at KBs for two which we were served salad, Lobster, steak, sides, and dessert, soft drinks and coffee. This was all included with our $50 night stay.

KB’s was highlighted as upscale dining, for residents only. Food was excellent. Once the developer no longer needed to give out free food things started to change. KB’s food started on a downward slope, tumbling into you didn’t want to embarrass yourself by taking guests.
There was free entertainment and dancing, which residents would take up a table for hours, order water and a drink, and sit for hours spending under $10.
Developer decided to make a two drink minimum, which also failed, then a time limit on tables, which basically angered people. When KBs was no longer profitable, after all the changes, it was closed.

Papa_lecki
08-04-2024, 08:39 PM
I like Americanos too but the water tastes horrible there.

How’s the gin?

LeRoySmith
08-05-2024, 05:44 AM
How’s the gin?

I like gin less than their water. Brown liquor please.

Bilyclub
08-05-2024, 06:17 AM
Not any of this is helping the SS area. What is, is what is. Foot traffic needs to increase there. Seasonal influxes won’t save the area. Local non Villagers who occupy more than half the circumference of its retail zone need to be involved? It can’t just be catering to “Villagers”.


Quite a bit of locals hanging out at Margarita Republic did it wonders.

Marathon Man
08-05-2024, 08:09 AM
They tell you they don't care, so they don't have to admit that they really want it, but don't yet have it...

Why is it so hard to believe that we actually don't care about making an occasional drive in our cars? Stores bring traffic. A common complaint in the areas near retail.

tophcfa
08-05-2024, 08:18 AM
I like Americanos too but the water tastes horrible there.

I like the food there also, but I will only do take out because every time we have eaten there our meal was ruined by someone smoking.

FloridaGuy66
08-05-2024, 10:53 AM
Much closer than south of the turnpike. I can get there pretty easy in my golf cart.

I'm south of the turnpike and Hobby Lobby is 9.1 miles from me, 19 mins away. According to Google, Hobby Lobby is 14 mins from Spanish Springs. I don't really think the extra 5 mins is a big deal. I can get there easily in my golf cart as well.

FloridaGuy66
08-05-2024, 11:04 AM
in my interactions with the new residents south of 44, most don’t bring up or seem to care about the sparse retail down here. It appears to be a bigger issue for the older residents up North. That’s all fine, but there appears to me anyway, to be a bit of generational split on this issue.

I definitely think you're on to something there. I'm south of 44 and many of my neighbors and myself get things delivered frequently rather than bother going to a physical store. We get Amazon and Kroger deliveries at least once per week. I don't really feel like the retail is that sparse. I can get to Home Depot or Lowes in around 10 mins. That's about the same as my "up north" home. A closer Walmart would be convenient but having to drive 15 mins to the one in Oxford doesn't bother me very much.

Battlebasset
08-05-2024, 12:38 PM
I have nothing against Spanish Springs. It's just that I live in the Fenny area and other restaurants/attractions/bands are closer to me in Brownwood, Sawgrass, and developing/soon to develop, Eastport and Middleton.

So unless there is something very special in SS to get me there (really good restaurant, entertainment, special event) I'm not going to make the multi-traffic circle drive. I'm certainly not going to take my golf cart.

So assuming folks down here think like me, it's going to be up to the Lake Sumter area and north people to keep it going. Are there enough with enough disposable income to make that work? I would think so, but the boarded up locations awaiting revitalization would argue against that. Time will tell, I suppose.

I certainly want to see it succeed, it benefits all of us. But I'm not that far removed from the business world to understand that business must make a profit. It's not a charity.

Battlebasset
08-05-2024, 12:56 PM
I definitely think you're on to something there. I'm south of 44 and many of my neighbors and myself get things delivered frequently rather than bother going to a physical store. We get Amazon and Kroger deliveries at least once per week. I don't really feel like the retail is that sparse. I can get to Home Depot or Lowes in around 10 mins. That's about the same as my "up north" home. A closer Walmart would be convenient but having to drive 15 mins to the one in Oxford doesn't bother me very much.

The only thing I want closer are good dining options. Anything else I can order on line and have delivered. I don't look at shopping as entertainment. It's a necessary evil. Hunt it, gather it, and be done with it.

Bogie Shooter
08-05-2024, 01:22 PM
I definitely think you're on to something there. I'm south of 44 and many of my neighbors and myself get things delivered frequently rather than bother going to a physical store. We get Amazon and Kroger deliveries at least once per week. I don't really feel like the retail is that sparse. I can get to Home Depot or Lowes in around 10 mins. That's about the same as my "up north" home. A closer Walmart would be convenient but having to drive 15 mins to the one in Oxford doesn't bother me very much.
Depending on your needs there is a closer neighborhood Walmart across from Colony Plaza.

Marathon Man
08-05-2024, 01:38 PM
I'm south of the turnpike and Hobby Lobby is 9.1 miles from me, 19 mins away. According to Google, Hobby Lobby is 14 mins from Spanish Springs. I don't really think the extra 5 mins is a big deal. I can get there easily in my golf cart as well.

Well said.

Papa_lecki
08-05-2024, 03:09 PM
So unless there is something very special in SS to get me there (really good restaurant, entertainment, special event) I'm not going to make the multi-traffic circle drive. I'm certainly not going to take my golf cart.


I think that is the secret, they need to make SS something special.

I think it can do okay with those N of 44 supporting it - but they want those around Sawgrass driving to SS, just as they want those around 466 driving to Eastport, even if its only once or twice a month.

JMintzer
08-05-2024, 07:03 PM
Why is it so hard to believe that we actually don't care about making an occasional drive in our cars? Stores bring traffic. A common complaint in the areas near retail.

I live just north of 44...

When I want to go up to the shopping on 441, we drive our car. We've taken our cart to SS only a couple of times.

It's a reasonable car drive for us. Once you add the additional distance from Eastport, it's much, much farther..

Why is it so hard to believe that distance/drive is something that many people don't want to deal with...

Stu from NYC
08-05-2024, 07:08 PM
I live just north of 44...

When I want to go up to the shopping on 441, we drive our car. We've taken our cart to SS only a couple of times.

It's a reasonable car drive for us. Once you add the additional distance from Eastport, it's much, much farther..

Why is it so hard to believe that distance/drive is something that many people don't want to deal with...

Makes sense to me. This is why we live just north of 466A. We do go often to LSL and Brownwood and shop regularly on 441 but rare to go to Spanish Springs

collie1228
08-05-2024, 07:20 PM
I live less than a mile from Spanish Springs and totally understand why folks living south of 44 don’t want to drive up here. I don’t travel south of 44 either. This place is just too big for its residents to travel to its furthest reaches. I don’t even go to Brownwood. Ever.

margaretmattson
08-05-2024, 09:13 PM
The Hobby Lobby and Costco is 6 miles from Spanish Springs, 4.1 miles to LSL, and 8 miles from Brownwood. It's certainly not "near" Spanish Springs.My point was commercial business is suffering EVERYWHERE.It makes no sense to discuss the demise in one square and not the others. I will believe Middleton will have lots of commercial interest when I actually see it. I think it will.take MANY years to be fully leased.The cost to operate a business is much more expensive than years ago. Instead of expanding, businesses across the USA are cutting back.

To me, Costco is in the Spanish Springs area. It definitely is not in the southern section. Business is not booming in the south. So why worry about the Northern area? We are ALL in the same boat. The world is changing. What is happening in Spanish Springs and OTHER PARTS of TV is occurring throughout many towns in the USA.

Like most of you, I purchase online and enjoy having the items delivered to my door. This is the reason brick and mortar stores are suffering everywhere. A vast majority would rather buy online. Many also prefer to order meals and have them delivered instead of going to a restaurant to dine.

Eg_cruz
08-06-2024, 03:00 AM
We live south of 44. We’ve been to Spanish Springs once in 3 years. We just enjoy Brownwood more and it’s closer I guess. I don’t wish it any ill will, but they really won’t be getting any income from most in our area. After Eastport is built, there just isn’t really any need to drive a half hour north for entertainment. Retail is starting to boom, Clermont is closer for additional shopping and life couldn’t be better.

Could income verses buying power for that area being reduced because of age and fixed returns be the problem? As we get older, maybe we don’t want to to go to the squares and spend like we used to? Perhaps that may be the major issue.
It is about where you live. I only go to SS and LSL. I have not been to Brownwood since the theater closed.

npwalters
08-06-2024, 04:51 PM
I'm south of the turnpike and Hobby Lobby is 9.1 miles from me, 19 mins away. According to Google, Hobby Lobby is 14 mins from Spanish Springs. I don't really think the extra 5 mins is a big deal. I can get there easily in my golf cart as well.

The Hobby Lobby on Wedgewood - just north of 466 - is about 4.6 miles from SS and easily accessible by golf cart. I play pickleball in a league at Everglades RC. I CAN drive my golf cart there but do not since it will take me about an hour from the area near Tierra Del Sol.

It takes me 35 to 40 minutes to get from my home, about 2 miles south of SS, to get to Everglades RC. I call BS on your claim to get to Hobby Lobby from south of the turnpike in 19 minutes.

FloridaGuy66
08-06-2024, 07:39 PM
I call BS on your claim to get to Hobby Lobby from south of the turnpike in 19 minutes.

You're right it's not 19 minutes, it's closer to 15 minutes.

Google Maps starting address is not from my actual home but one on my street.

105140

Risuli
08-07-2024, 09:33 AM
I think its a simple as, "Is it worth the drive?". Spanish Springs is the closest square to me, but can't say we spend much time there as there is nothing regarding shopping that is of interest. Visit Amerikanos a couple of times a year, Ruby Tuesday for salad now and again, once in great while Kilwins for a too expensive ice cream. Panera's & Dunkin are everywhere and are nothing special.

Now, if the squares had actual shops and restaurants that were outstanding in their offerings, we'd gladly frequent them even if it was a drive to get to. Unfortunately, we haven't found any truly unique shopping and far and away the restaurants are lucky to achieve mediocre. We do have a handful of restaurants that we will drive to (some as far a 40-50 minutes away), but it has to be "worth the drive".

Papa_lecki
08-07-2024, 05:03 PM
I think its a simple as, "Is it worth the drive?". Spanish Springs is the closest square to me, but can't say we spend much time there as there is nothing regarding shopping that is of interest. Visit Amerikanos a couple of times a year, Ruby Tuesday for salad now and again, once in great while Kilwins for a too expensive ice cream. Panera's & Dunkin are everywhere and are nothing special.

Now, if the squares had actual shops and restaurants that were outstanding in their offerings, we'd gladly frequent them even if it was a drive to get to. Unfortunately, we haven't found any truly unique shopping and far and away the restaurants are lucky to achieve mediocre. We do have a handful of restaurants that we will drive to (some as far a 40-50 minutes away), but it has to be "worth the drive".

Agree on this point, the shopping at all the squares is okay, not great.

FloridaGuy66
08-07-2024, 06:40 PM
Now, if the squares had actual shops and restaurants that were outstanding in their offerings, we'd gladly frequent them even if it was a drive to get to. Unfortunately, we haven't found any truly unique shopping and far and away the restaurants are lucky to achieve mediocre. We do have a handful of restaurants that we will drive to (some as far a 40-50 minutes away), but it has to be "worth the drive".

These kinds of things makes me skeptical that Eastport will deliver on expectations as far as unique shops and restaurants. Brownwood opened around 15 years ago and even now it really doesn't have a lot of useful retail other than a handful of specialty stores.

A full service bakery, a butcher and a small scale non-chain grocery store is the type of thing that would come to mind in things that would likely attract business. Even a small hardware store at Brownwood square would be really nice.

Bogie Shooter
08-07-2024, 08:16 PM
These kinds of things makes me skeptical that Eastport will deliver on expectations as far as unique shops and restaurants. Brownwood opened around 15 years ago and even now it really doesn't have a lot of useful retail other than a handful of specialty stores.

A full service bakery, a butcher and a small scale non-chain grocery store is the type of thing that would come to mind in things that would likely attract business. Even a small hardware store at Brownwood square would be really nice.

“Small” is the key word. Probably couldn’t pay the rent at the cheap prices so many would demand.

VApeople
08-07-2024, 08:36 PM
Even a small hardware store at Brownwood square would be really nice.

Across the street from Brownwood in Sparr and there is a nice Ace Hardware in Wildwood. We go to both of them a lot.

FloridaGuy66
08-07-2024, 10:46 PM
Across the street from Brownwood in Sparr and there is a nice Ace Hardware in Wildwood. We go to both of them a lot.

I'm a regular customer to both, but I would really like to be able to pickup things I need in my golf cart if I'm going to Brownwood anyways. We rarely take our car to Brownwood but we take our golf cart there usually 3 days a week.

I think the original idea was to be that a large part of the value proposition for town squares is convenience.

Risuli
08-08-2024, 09:24 AM
A full service bakery, a butcher and a small scale non-chain grocery store is the type of thing that would come to mind in things that would likely attract business.

Agreed. Moved here permanently two years ago and have been surprised (I know should have looked more before leaping!) about the lack of certain types of businesses in this area:

- Haven't found an actual butcher shop anywhere. With all the cattle in the area you'd think a butcher shop would be a no brainer. Plenty of Publix & Winn Dixie's that sell grocery store USDA Choice meats, etc. And I guess there's Fresh Market, but haven't been impressed;

- A actual, real bakery? Haven't found one. Again, Publix & Winn Dixie's are marginal. Panera, just another national franchise. Long drive to Donut King is worth it for a great doughnut thou;

- An actual GOOD family restaurant. Where we relocated from had a multitude of choices for "coney island" restaurants. These were small, family owned (generally by Greek or Lebonese families) that offered a large, varied menu of breakfasts, sandwiches, salads, dinners and the namesake "coneys". Excellent food at reasonable prices (and generally opened 24 hours). Here, marginal food, highly priced and closes at 2 pm. [If anyone knows where you can get a GOOD omelette, please let me know. Too many times here I've tried to get a decent omelette and end up with a small flat scrambled eggs folded over near non-existent filling for $15]. Last time we were "up North we stopped in our favorite "coney island" and I practically begged them to open one up down here!

Normal
08-08-2024, 09:28 AM
Agreed. Moved here permanently two years ago and have been surprised (I know should have looked more before leaping!) about the lack of certain types of businesses in this area:

- Haven't found an actual butcher shop anywhere. With all the cattle in the area you'd think a butcher shop would be a no brainer. Plenty of Publix & Winn Dixie's that sell grocery store USDA Choice meats, etc. And I guess there's Fresh Market, but haven't been impressed;

- A actual, real bakery? Haven't found one. Again, Publix & Winn Dixie's are marginal. Panera, just another national franchise. Long drive to Donut King is worth it for a great doughnut thou;

- An actual GOOD family restaurant. Where we relocated from had a multitude of choices for "coney island" restaurants. These were small, family owned (generally by Greek or Lebonese families) that offered a large, varied menu of breakfasts, sandwiches, salads, dinners and the namesake "coneys". Excellent food at reasonable prices (and generally opened 24 hours). Here, marginal food, highly priced and closes at 2 pm. [If anyone knows where you can get a GOOD omelette, please let me know. Too many times here I've tried to get a decent omelette and end up with a small flat scrambled eggs folded over near non-existent filling for $15]. Last time we were "up North we stopped in our favorite "coney island" and I practically begged them to open one up down here!


Best Meats in Wildwood has decent to order cuts. They do our T Bones and NYs.

Bogie Shooter
08-08-2024, 10:33 AM
Ah yes, “up north where I came from was so much better”.

Bogie Shooter
08-08-2024, 10:34 AM
Agreed. Moved here permanently two years ago and have been surprised (I know should have looked more before leaping!) about the lack of certain types of businesses in this area:

- Haven't found an actual butcher shop anywhere. With all the cattle in the area you'd think a butcher shop would be a no brainer. Plenty of Publix & Winn Dixie's that sell grocery store USDA Choice meats, etc. And I guess there's Fresh Market, but haven't been impressed;

- A actual, real bakery? Haven't found one. Again, Publix & Winn Dixie's are marginal. Panera, just another national franchise. Long drive to Donut King is worth it for a great doughnut thou;

- An actual GOOD family restaurant. Where we relocated from had a multitude of choices for "coney island" restaurants. These were small, family owned (generally by Greek or Lebonese families) that offered a large, varied menu of breakfasts, sandwiches, salads, dinners and the namesake "coneys". Excellent food at reasonable prices (and generally opened 24 hours). Here, marginal food, highly priced and closes at 2 pm. [If anyone knows where you can get a GOOD omelette, please let me know. Too many times here I've tried to get a decent omelette and end up with a small flat scrambled eggs folded over near non-existent filling for $15]. Last time we were "up North we stopped in our favorite "coney island" and I practically begged them to open one up down here!

Soon be time to relocate?

Stu from NYC
08-08-2024, 02:55 PM
Best Meats in Wildwood has decent to order cuts. They do our T Bones and NYs.

Understand new mgt have not been there for awhile.

Do you find things are better?