Amenity Fees

[rhood]

There are 18 homes on my block and the amenity fees range from $179 and change to over $200. The home that originally closed first pays $179 and is the oldest on the block. The next oldest originally closed 1 month later and their fee is $190. The most recent resident (last summer) is paying $194 while a home sold two years ago is paying $201.

Generally, the adjustment anniversary date is the original land sale date so fee adjustment dates will be different for each property. I just can’t figure why such a big difference from least to most.

I’m not complaining, I just like to play with numbers, but can’t figure out how this works. Guess I’ll contact district and ask them.

[Marathon Man]

Any resales? That makes a difference.

[ThirdOfFive]

There are 18 homes on my block and the amenity fees range from $179 and change to over $200. The home that originally closed first pays $179 and is the oldest on the block. The next oldest originally closed 1 month later and their fee is $190. The most recent resident (last summer) is paying $194 while a home sold two years ago is paying $201.

Generally, the adjustment anniversary date is the original land sale date so fee adjustment dates will be different for each property. I just can’t figure why such a big difference from least to most.

I’m not complaining, I just like to play with numbers, but can’t figure out how this works. Guess I’ll contact district and ask them.
Post #2 mentions resales. I've heard that too: when a house is resold the amenity fee is recalculated according to some kind of formula. But whatever it is, $201 is incredibly cheap for all that TV has to offer. We have friends in a retirement village up in the panhandle who pay over $650 a month for a golf course, couple of tennis courts, landscaping and an ocean view!

[ChicagoNative]

What do you get for the amenity fee besides “free” golf on the 9 hole courses and the opportunity to join a club? It’s my understanding that some clubs also have additional dues?

It seems pretty misleading to me to say that it’s only $200 a month to live in the Villages. What about your landscaping? trimming? fertilization? Irrigation?

Don’t get me wrong: I think the Villages is a fantastic community. But when you compare fees between Villages and non-Villages communities, make sure you are getting a true picture of your monthly expenses.

[Bill14564]

There are 18 homes on my block and the amenity fees range from $179 and change to over $200. The home that originally closed first pays $179 and is the oldest on the block. The next oldest originally closed 1 month later and their fee is $190. The most recent resident (last summer) is paying $194 while a home sold two years ago is paying $201.

Generally, the adjustment anniversary date is the original land sale date so fee adjustment dates will be different for each property. I just can’t figure why such a big difference from least to most.

I’m not complaining, I just like to play with numbers, but can’t figure out how this works. Guess I’ll contact district and ask them.

When a house changes hands, including initial sales, the amenity fee is set to the "prevailing rate" which is currently $195 (I believe this is correct, perhaps it is $194)

Each year in the month that the house was initially purchased from the Developer (or perhaps initially put on the market) the amenity fee is adjusted for the current CPI. Note that the month this happens has nothing to do with the month you purchased a resale, it is tied to the month the home was sold for the very first time. Also, the CPI used might be from a month or two prior to the anniversary month due to the time it takes to publish the number. All this is explained in your deed restrictions.

Each year either in October or January the Developer has the option to set a new "prevailing rate" for the amenity fee. If the new rate is set higher than the recent CPI then the new rate will be more than what you are currently paying for your home.

This explains why some homes are $195 and others are $190. The prevailing rate for a home sold before January 2024 was less than $195. When that amenity fee was adjusted for the CPI it came out to $190. Then the Developer set the 2024 rate to be $195 and a new home was purchased. The amenity fee for the new home is $195 while the fee for the old home is $190.

This also explains why some homes are $195 and others may be $201. Perhaps both homes were purchased in 2024 and both homes had the amenity fee set to $195. One home then reached the anniversary date of when it was first purchased and its amenity fee was adjusted according to the CPI. Since the CPI is running about 3%, the adjustment would be about $6 for a total of $201. The second home has not yet reached its anniversary date and so its amenity fee is still $195.

[Maker]

If everyone gets the exact same amenities, WHY are the fees different?
I asked, and was given a long explanation about how they use sales dates, anniversary dates, etc, to arrive at a unique fee per house. They never could say WHY they are all different, other than "this is how we do it."

[Bill14564]

If everyone gets the exact same amenities, WHY are the fees different?
I asked, and was given a long explanation about how they use sales dates, anniversary dates, etc, to arrive at a unique fee per house. They never could say WHY they are all different, other than "this is how we do it."

A guess:

1. Buyers will feel better about a rate that is adjusted annually for inflation rather than a rate that is set arbitrarily each year.

2. Adjusting the rate on the anniversary of the initial sale rather than the date of resale makes it easier to project income - the date a home will be adjusted for inflation is fixed, it never varies.

3. NOT tying the annual change in the prevailing rate (the Amenity fee set when a home changes hands) to inflation allows the Developer to make a larger increase if necessary.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

There are 18 homes on my block and the amenity fees range from $179 and change to over $200. The home that originally closed first pays $179 and is the oldest on the block. The next oldest originally closed 1 month later and their fee is $190. The most recent resident (last summer) is paying $194 while a home sold two years ago is paying $201.

Generally, the adjustment anniversary date is the original land sale date so fee adjustment dates will be different for each property. I just can’t figure why such a big difference from least to most.

I’m not complaining, I just like to play with numbers, but can’t figure out how this works. Guess I’ll contact district and ask them.

From financial intuition:

The process is similar to the tax basis and tax calculation records,
The all current rates go up at the same rate
At sale, the current rate is attached to the property, reset for future increases.

What is unknown is the current rate at the time of sale.

The relevant documents only discuss the annual homeowner rate of increase, not how the existing rate is calculated when a house is sold and the rate is reset.

The annual rate is related/similar to the increase rate of social security, which is also based upon the rate of inflation, i believe, i could be wrong. However, SS is a political number, so it doesn't quite track the CPI annual change with adjustments exactly. The rate at time of sale can be calculated many different ways. . and that is unknown.

Let us numerical mind jugglers know what you uncover. .

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What do you get for the amenity fee besides “free” golf on the 9 hole courses and the opportunity to join a club? It’s my understanding that some clubs also have additional dues?

It seems pretty misleading to me to say that it’s only $200 a month to live in the Villages. What about your landscaping? trimming? fertilization? Irrigation?

Don’t get me wrong: I think the Villages is a fantastic community. But when you compare fees between Villages and non-Villages communities, make sure you are getting a true picture of your monthly expenses.

Access to all the sports, family, and adult pools. The MMPs (which are SUPPOSED to be for residents and their guests only, but that's unfortunately bypassed). Every single rec center in The Villages. All the shuffleboard/pickleball/tennis/bocci courts, archery ranges, softball fields, walking trails down south, craft rooms, meeting/event space, the irrigation systems to the golf courses, community area landscaping, all the parks around the retention ponds and woodlands, dog parks, fishing lakes, and paying every single employee who who handles all these things.

[ChicagoNative]

Ok, so common areas. That’s normal. I suppose if one wants to travel around TV to swim in other pools or use other rec centers, more power to you.

What about your personal landscaping? That is a monthly cost of TV residency and it’s never mentioned when I have conversations with people about actual monthly costs of living there. I always get the $200;per month, 3000 clubs, and/or “I bought the lifestyle” answer. Again, fine if that’s what one wants, but it’s still misleading.

The MMP issue has been beaten to a nice thick paste. There are those who think only villagers should be able to use them, attend entertainment at the squares, or use any businesses within the bubble. I’m positing that the reason your management doesn’t bother with such tatctics, in addition to the logistical nightmare of enforcement, along with public streets, is that a lot of non villagers patronize businesses and spend money.

As mentioned, I like the Villages. It’s the reason we came to this part of the state. We found something that was more suited to our needs while allowing us to take advantage of the free aspects of the Villages. I understand folks who defend TV on issues worth defending, but I don’t understand the residents who seem to take personal offense anytime someone says anything that can be considered even remotely a constructive criticism. Your mileage may vary.

[rhood]

When a house changes hands, including initial sales, the amenity fee is set to the "prevailing rate" which is currently $195 (I believe this is correct, perhaps it is $194)

Each year in the month that the house was initially purchased from the Developer (or perhaps initially put on the market) the amenity fee is adjusted for the current CPI. Note that the month this happens has nothing to do with the month you purchased a resale, it is tied to the month the home was sold for the very first time. Also, the CPI used might be from a month or two prior to the anniversary month due to the time it takes to publish the number. All this is explained in your deed restrictions.

Each year either in October or January the Developer has the option to set a new "prevailing rate" for the amenity fee. If the new rate is set higher than the recent CPI then the new rate will be more than what you are currently paying for your home.

This explains why some homes are $195 and others are $190. The prevailing rate for a home sold before January 2024 was less than $195. When that amenity fee was adjusted for the CPI it came out to $190. Then the Developer set the 2024 rate to be $195 and a new home was purchased. The amenity fee for the new home is $195 while the fee for the old home is $190.

This also explains why some homes are $195 and others may be $201. Perhaps both homes were purchased in 2024 and both homes had the amenity fee set to $195. One home then reached the anniversary date of when it was first purchased and its amenity fee was adjusted according to the CPI. Since the CPI is running about 3%, the adjustment would be about $6 for a total of $201. The second home has not yet reached its anniversary date and so its amenity fee is still $195.

I understand, but that doesn’t explain the nearly $22 difference between lowest and highest. The $179 rate home is the original owner. If the prevailing rate is $195, why is a home sold last year over $200?

[Bill14564]

I understand, but that doesn’t explain the nearly $22 difference between lowest and highest. The $179 rate home is the original owner. If the prevailing rate is $195, why is a home sold last year over $200?

Home sold last year:
Sold in February, amenity fee set to $195
Anniversary date in June, CPI about 3%, amenity fee increases to about $200
I don't know what the rate was last year, perhaps it was close to $195 and then the home went through two increases.
EDIT: If your neighbor is willing to share his utility bills with you then you could see what his amenity fee started as and how it was adjusted over time.

$22 difference:
I haven't kept track of where the Developer has set the amenity fees over time. I know mine started at less than $150 and it is up to $180 now. It seems the Developer is setting the new rates a bit higher than the CPI for the year which means the longer you stay in your home, the greater the difference between what you pay and what a new owner pays.

[MX rider]

Ok, so common areas. That’s normal. I suppose if one wants to travel around TV to swim in other pools or use other rec centers, more power to you.

What about your personal landscaping? That is a monthly cost of TV residency and it’s never mentioned when I have conversations with people about actual monthly costs of living there. I always get the $200;per month, 3000 clubs, and/or “I bought the lifestyle” answer. Again, fine if that’s what one wants, but it’s still misleading.

The MMP issue has been beaten to a nice thick paste. There are those who think only villagers should be able to use them, attend entertainment at the squares, or use any businesses within the bubble. I’m positing that the reason your management doesn’t bother with such tatctics, in addition to the logistical nightmare of enforcement, along with public streets, is that a lot of non villagers patronize businesses and spend money.

As mentioned, I like the Villages. It’s the reason we came to this part of the state. We found something that was more suited to our needs while allowing us to take advantage of the free aspects of the Villages. I understand folks who defend TV on issues worth defending, but I don’t understand the residents who seem to take personal offense anytime someone says anything that can be considered even remotely a constructive criticism. Your mileage may vary.

You're ignoring all the things the previous poster listed. Our amenity fee is a bargain! There's nowhere else you'll find so many options to stay active and have fun.
Besides golf, pickleball, running on the mmps and enjoying our neighborhood pool, I play softball on the nicest fields I've ever played on and it costs me nothing, except buying my jersey. Very well organized and all the softball facilities are top notch, like all things here.

And I can find just about any activity I would like to try. The choices are amazing, and too many to list.
There's so much to do and fun to be had, we run out of time.

But like you, the villages isn't a good fit for everyone.
And I don't get your "misleading" comment. We bought 2 years ago after a lifestyle visit and were fully aware of what we would be paying for, no surprises. I mow my own grass and take care of my own landscaping. I only pay extra for lawn treatment and having my palms trimmed.
Our friends live in Bonita Springs in an over 55 community. They pay over $500 a month for 2 pools and 2 pickleball courts and they get their tiny yard mowed.

For us, we're truly living our best life here and couldn't be happier.

[Papa_lecki]

The MMPs (which are SUPPOSED to be for residents and their guests only, but that's unfortunately bypassed).

I wonder what percent of golf carts on the MMO are not residents - I would say less than 5%.

Okay, not a big deal, they re coming over and spending money in the restaurants.

[CarlR33]

If everyone gets the exact same amenities, WHY are the fees different?
I asked, and was given a long explanation about how they use sales dates, anniversary dates, etc, to arrive at a unique fee per house. They never could say WHY they are all different, other than "this is how we do it." I think if you take the time to look into your bylaws it should be stated in there similar what others are saying here. I know because I had similar question when I recently purchased a home and found it in the bylaws (how it’s calculated).

[Velvet]

Ok, so common areas. That’s normal. I suppose if one wants to travel around TV to swim in other pools or use other rec centers, more power to you.

What about your personal landscaping? That is a monthly cost of TV residency and it’s never mentioned when I have conversations with people about actual monthly costs of living there. I always get the $200;per month, 3000 clubs, and/or “I bought the lifestyle” answer. Again, fine if that’s what one wants, but it’s still misleading.

The MMP issue has been beaten to a nice thick paste. There are those who think only villagers should be able to use them, attend entertainment at the squares, or use any businesses within the bubble. I’m positing that the reason your management doesn’t bother with such tatctics, in addition to the logistical nightmare of enforcement, along with public streets, is that a lot of non villagers patronize businesses and spend money.

As mentioned, I like the Villages. It’s the reason we came to this part of the state. We found something that was more suited to our needs while allowing us to take advantage of the free aspects of the Villages. I understand folks who defend TV on issues worth defending, but I don’t understand the residents who seem to take personal offense anytime someone says anything that can be considered even remotely a constructive criticism. Your mileage may vary.

Well, I can see that other people than Villagers come to the squares as businesses pay for entertainment. As long as Villagers don’t pay for the squares I can’t see why it should be reserves strictly for them. But MMP’s ? I don’t know who pays for them and their upkeep?

[fdpaq0580]

It is what it is! Doesn't mean that it is right or fair. Imagine the "sliding scale" at a gas station. Different price per gallon depend on what car you drive, what time of day it is and which pump you choose. Figures don't lie. But liers can figure. Just saying...

[westernrider75]

Ok, so common areas. That’s normal. I suppose if one wants to travel around TV to swim in other pools or use other rec centers, more power to you.

What about your personal landscaping? That is a monthly cost of TV residency and it’s never mentioned when I have conversations with people about actual monthly costs of living there. I always get the $200;per month, 3000 clubs, and/or “I bought the lifestyle” answer. Again, fine if that’s what one wants, but it’s still misleading.

The MMP issue has been beaten to a nice thick paste. There are those who think only villagers should be able to use them, attend entertainment at the squares, or use any businesses within the bubble. I’m positing that the reason your management doesn’t bother with such tatctics, in addition to the logistical nightmare of enforcement, along with public streets, is that a lot of non villagers patronize businesses and spend money.

As mentioned, I like the Villages. It’s the reason we came to this part of the state. We found something that was more suited to our needs while allowing us to take advantage of the free aspects of the Villages. I understand folks who defend TV on issues worth defending, but I don’t understand the residents who seem to take personal offense anytime someone says anything that can be considered even remotely a constructive criticism. Your mileage may vary.

I’m confused about your comments regarding personal landscaping. Wouldn’t you have costs associated with “personal landscaping “ if you lived somewhere else? Many people here have landscapers take care of their tiny yards, we prefer to do our own as we have no matter where we have lived, so we don’t have any added costs for that unless we change something. But if you don’t take care of your own, yes you will have costs. No different than anywhere else.

[golfing eagles]

I wonder what percent of golf carts on the MMO are not residents - I would say less than 5%.

Okay, not a big deal, they re coming over and spending money in the restaurants.

I'd be more concerned over a non-resident sneaking into the amenities than riding on a MMP. That's the choke point and that's where we should be monitoring more closely----pools, rec centers, and after-hours golf course trespassers.

[golfing eagles]

Here's another question: Why do some people get their undies in a bunch over chump change? OMG---I pay $6 more than the neighbor on my left but $4 less than the one on my right. Chicken Little----oh well, everyone knows the rest.

[Goldwingnut]

Bill14564’s answers here have been spot on.

Concerning the Prevailing rate adjustments, they usually happen in January, right after the developer closes out their books for the previous tax year. Unlike the clowns in Washington who use the CPI as a political football and tinker with the calculations each year to try to make themselves look good, the developer has to live in the real world of real cost increases. The amenities for the developer are simply another business unit (applies only to the ones they own - those south of SR44) and have to calculate exactly what it costs them to run and maintain the amenities they own and adjust the Prevailing rate each year to ensure they operate a sustainable business unit. Once they know the number then a new prevailing rate for new homes is established.

The deed restrictions define how the amenity fee can be adjusted. Annually the CPI is used to make this adjustment in what each home pays (it’s calculated every month for the past 12 months which is what homes next to each other may get different adjustments). The CPI is however a looser from a financial prospective as it doesn’t ever keep up with the real cost increases, so each year the boards have to work hard to try to contain costs with the effectively decreasing budget (due to inflation). The only relief to this losing battle comes with the reset that occurs when a home is sold and the new owner pays the current prevailing rate.

Many falsely believe that as the villages grows and more homes pay amenity fees that that should cover the cost increased due to inflation. What they fail to understand is that these new homes are paying for the organic growth in the budget and not the inflationary budget increases. Organic growth being the increase in budget costs caused by adding new amenity facilities (and their O&M costs) as the community and number of homes grow. The CPI adjustment tries to address the inflationary budget increased, but as said earlier, it does a poor job at keeping up with inflation.

[ChicagoNative]

I’m confused about your comments regarding personal landscaping. Wouldn’t you have costs associated with “personal landscaping “ if you lived somewhere else? Many people here have landscapers take care of their tiny yards, we prefer to do our own as we have no matter where we have lived, so we don’t have any added costs for that unless we change something. But if you don’t take care of your own, yes you will have costs. No different than anywhere else.

Some of my Village friends talk about how expensive it is to live in my community compared to TV. We pay $975 quarterly in fees, or $325 monthly. Thay always talk about how they pay only $200 monthly and they get all the clubs and the lifestyle. Our fees cover the usual and customary things like our pools, hot tubs, fitness center, and clubhouse. Our fees also cover all landscape charges: edging, cutting, trimming, weeding, fertilization, mulch, and irrigation. Events that involve food and entertainment usually have a small additional charge.

My point was that looking at dollars only without considering what one gets for those dollars is the misleading part. Sure, we’re paying for landscaping in our fees, and villagers have the option of doing their own yard maintenance which can be a savings, but for those of us who hate yard work, especially in the hellfire heat of Florida, it’s nice not to worry about it. We also do not have any bonds or ongoing CDD fees. We don’t have free golf here, which for a golfer is likely the main selling point, but as said, your mileage and comfort level may vary.

[Marathon Man]

...
The MMP issue has been beaten to a nice thick paste. There are those who think only villagers should be able to use them, attend entertainment at the squares, or use any businesses within the bubble. I’m positing that the reason your management doesn’t bother with such tatctics, in addition to the logistical nightmare of enforcement, along with public streets, is that a lot of non villagers patronize businesses and spend money.

...

Since you live in Lakeside Landing, it seems that you want residents of TV to stop thinking about who uses the MMP's.

[ThirdOfFive]

I'd be more concerned over a non-resident sneaking into the amenities than riding on a MMP. That's the choke point and that's where we should be monitoring more closely----pools, rec centers, and after-hours golf course trespassers.
That does seem to be happening. My wife played tennis with a group at Rohan last week and two people from the center came out to check IDs. Smart idea to have two folks do it instead of one. I've also heard (haven't yet experienced it) that such checks are being implemented at the tennis and pickleball courts at El Santiago.

It seems to be an unfortunate fact of life that the things that go wrong get center stage while all the things that are going right are all too often ignored.

[ChicagoNative]

Since you live in Lakeside Landing, it seems that you want residents of TV to stop thinking about who uses the MMP's.

I’m not the thought police. You are free to think and express whatever thoughts you want. If the management of TV thinks non-villagers using the MMPs is a priority problem, I imagine they’d put a stop to it.

[golfing eagles]

Some of my Village friends talk about how expensive it is to live in my community compared to TV. We pay $975 quarterly in fees, or $325 monthly. Thay always talk about how they pay only $200 monthly and they get all the clubs and the lifestyle. Our fees cover the usual and customary things like our pools, hot tubs, fitness center, and clubhouse. Our fees also cover all landscape charges: edging, cutting, trimming, weeding, fertilization, mulch, and irrigation. Events that involve food and entertainment usually have a small additional charge.

My point was that looking at dollars only without considering what one gets for those dollars is the misleading part. Sure, we’re paying for landscaping in our fees, and villagers have the option of doing their own yard maintenance which can be a savings, but for those of us who hate yard work, especially in the hellfire heat of Florida, it’s nice not to worry about it. We also do not have any bonds or ongoing CDD fees. We don’t have free golf here, which for a golfer is likely the main selling point, but as said, your mileage and comfort level may vary.

OK, let's see if we all got this straight: You do not live in TV. You live in a vastly inferior community. You have 100+ less pools, about 80-100 less rec centers, no free entertainment in 4 locations 365 days/year, 50+ less golf courses, none of which are "free", BUT.....you get your lawn mowed???? And you pay double our average amenity fee and your criticizing the Villages???? Is anyone green with envy when they look in the mirror????

[ChicagoNative]

OK, let's see if we all got this straight: You do not live in TV. You live in a vastly inferior community. You have 100+ less pools, about 80-100 less rec centers, no free entertainment in 4 locations 365 days/year, 50+ less golf courses, none of which are "free", BUT.....you get your lawn mowed???? And you pay double our average amenity fee and your criticizing the Villages???? Is anyone green with envy when they look in the mirror????

You do you! :rolleyes:

[Bogie Shooter]

OK, let's see if we all got this straight: You do not live in TV. You live in a vastly inferior community. You have 100+ less pools, about 80-100 less rec centers, no free entertainment in 4 locations 365 days/year, 50+ less golf courses, none of which are "free", BUT.....you get your lawn mowed???? And you pay double our average amenity fee and your criticizing the Villages???? Is anyone green with envy when they look in the mirror????

Sounds like a great place.:a20:

[fdpaq0580]

Here's another question: Why do some people get their undies in a bunch over chump change? OMG---I pay $6 more than the neighbor on my left but $4 less than the one on my right. Chicken Little----oh well, everyone knows the rest.

Has nothing to do with the sky falling. It is a question of, fairness, equality. Since we all have equal access to everything the "lifestyle" has to offer, shouldn't we all pay an equal access fee? The "chump change" amount seems like a cheap shot at folks who worked hard for every dollar they earned. Others are just naturally thrifty and want full, fair value for what they spend. A simple question that seems to have a not so simple answer.🫠🫠🫠

[MX rider]

OK, let's see if we all got this straight: You do not live in TV. You live in a vastly inferior community. You have 100+ less pools, about 80-100 less rec centers, no free entertainment in 4 locations 365 days/year, 50+ less golf courses, none of which are "free", BUT.....you get your lawn mowed???? And you pay double our average amenity fee and your criticizing the Villages???? Is anyone green with envy when they look in the mirror????

Very well said. Drop the mic.

[LeRoySmith]

The "chump change" amount seems like a cheap shot at folks who worked hard for every dollar they earned.

I get where you're coming from but I think ge was a physician, it may seem they make a lot of money in general but that's a job I wouldn't want. Based on the length of education, dealing with people within their personal space and the horrible condition people let their bodies get into I think the money is well earned and deserved.

[tophcfa]

As far as I can tell, the amount of stuff we get for our monthly Ammenity fee in the Villages cannot be matched at any other retirement community in the world. No complaints here!

[Mollusk29]

Well, I can see that other people than Villagers come to the squares as businesses pay for entertainment. As long as Villagers don’t pay for the squares I can’t see why it should be reserves strictly for them. But MMP’s ? I don’t know who pays for them and their upkeep?

Doesn't the bond pay for the infrastructure in the squares? I have no problem with non-Villagers using the squares. Villagers pay, outsiders use....I get the argument for Villagers only at the Squares.

[dewilson58]

Doesn't the bond pay for the infrastructure in the squares? I have no problem with non-Villagers using the squares. Villagers pay, outsiders use....I get the argument for Villagers only at the Squares.

Nope

[fdpaq0580]

I get where you're coming from but I think ge was a physician, it may seem they make a lot of money in general but that's a job I wouldn't want. Based on the length of education, dealing with people within their personal space and the horrible condition people let their bodies get into I think the money is well earned and deserved.

True! But some who, regardless of their job/ career, end up with far more money than others. What seem "chump change" to one may seem significant or meaningful to another, depending upon what the expenditure is for. The term , "chump" is actually an insult, infers that said "chump" is of lesser value as a person. "Chump change", while a common enough expression, is actually insult by inference that a person's human or societal value is directly proportional to their wealth or lack of it.
Good of you to come to GE's defense, but I was not attacking him. I have too much respect for him to do that, regardless of the fact we do differ in our opinions.

[MsPCGenius]

I am always impressed that I can go anywhere on the TV "campus" -- be it a rec center, a square, golf course, etc. -- and always find a sparkling clean rest room!! I suspect my fees help to cover those costs as well. :angel:

[rickaslin]

What do you get for the amenity fee besides “free” golf on the 9 hole courses and the opportunity to join a club? It’s my understanding that some clubs also have additional dues?

It seems pretty misleading to me to say that it’s only $200 a month to live in the Villages. What about your landscaping? trimming? fertilization? Irrigation?

Don’t get me wrong: I think the Villages is a fantastic community. But when you compare fees between Villages and non-Villages communities, make sure you are getting a true picture of your monthly expenses.

You gorgot to mention all the pools that are inluded with fees!!!

[Justputt]

TV is unlike any other development I've lived in. Usually, when the builder has built out an area, they walk away, and things begin to deteriorate (plants died off, grass gets mowed by a tractor maybe once a month or so, sidewalks chip/break/shift and become tripping hazards, etc.). Whether I go to the oldest sections or newest sections, TV is very well maintained! The amenity fee is reasonable compared to condos and other smaller developments we looked at before coming here, and they usually had one smallish pool and a gym that smelled like a high school boys locker room.

[DrHitch]

What do you get for the amenity fee besides “free” golf on the 9 hole courses and the opportunity to join a club?

It seems pretty misleading to me to say that it’s only $200 a month to live in the Villages. What about your landscaping.....

Your amenity fee of $189 per month covers a lot more than just the golf... In fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.

Look around at all the common areas, such as all of the flower beds along Morse and Buena Vista....plus the swimming pools, rec center maintenance, etc etc.

Sure, each house has its own maintenance needs.

[fdpaq0580]

As far as I can tell, the amount of stuff we get for our monthly Ammenity fee in the Villages cannot be matched at any other retirement community in the world. No complaints here!

Amen! No complaints. But many wonder why we pay different price for the exact same amenities. The answer doesn't seem easy to explain.

[Bogie Shooter]

Don’t understand why we have to justify and defend the fact we live in the villages to somebody that lives down the road.:shrug:

[LeRoySmith]

True! But some who, regardless of their job/ career, end up with far more money than others

That makes sense, I started way less than poor and chump change would have been very welcome. After a lot of hard work and luck I fall toward the other end of the scale, so I understand both completely.

And I'm still thrifty (a huge tight wad...).


Good of you to come to GE's defense
I kinda shocked myself with that one.

[LeRoySmith]

Don’t understand why we have to justify and defend the fact we live in the villages to somebody that lives down the road.:shrug:

We don't, everyone should do their thing and be as happy as they can with it. Some old farts like to fuss at one another for no good reason. Other old farts get entertainment out of stirring the pot and watching the fallout.

[Lee55]

Post #2 mentions resales. I've heard that too: when a house is resold the amenity fee is recalculated according to some kind of formula. But whatever it is, $201 is incredibly cheap for all that TV has to offer. We have friends in a retirement village up in the panhandle who pay over $650 a month for a golf course, couple of tennis courts, landscaping and an ocean view!

That ocean view will get you every time!

[Dilligas]

I wonder what percent of golf carts on the MMO are not residents - I would say less than 5%.

Okay, not a big deal, they re coming over and spending money in the restaurants.
Next to none. There will be some that have to travel from neighboring areas in legal carts for 30 mph street (or illegally), but insignificant quantity.

[Maker]

Bill14564’s answers here have been spot on.

Concerning the Prevailing rate adjustments, they usually happen in January, right after the developer closes out their books for the previous tax year. Unlike the clowns in Washington who use the CPI as a political football and tinker with the calculations each year to try to make themselves look good, the developer has to live in the real world of real cost increases. The amenities for the developer are simply another business unit (applies only to the ones they own - those south of SR44) and have to calculate exactly what it costs them to run and maintain the amenities they own and adjust the Prevailing rate each year to ensure they operate a sustainable business unit. Once they know the number then a new prevailing rate for new homes is established.

The deed restrictions define how the amenity fee can be adjusted. Annually the CPI is used to make this adjustment in what each home pays (it’s calculated every month for the past 12 months which is what homes next to each other may get different adjustments). The CPI is however a looser from a financial prospective as it doesn’t ever keep up with the real cost increases, so each year the boards have to work hard to try to contain costs with the effectively decreasing budget (due to inflation). The only relief to this losing battle comes with the reset that occurs when a home is sold and the new owner pays the current prevailing rate.

Many falsely believe that as the villages grows and more homes pay amenity fees that that should cover the cost increased due to inflation. What they fail to understand is that these new homes are paying for the organic growth in the budget and not the inflationary budget increases. Organic growth being the increase in budget costs caused by adding new amenity facilities (and their O&M costs) as the community and number of homes grow. The CPI adjustment tries to address the inflationary budget increased, but as said earlier, it does a poor job at keeping up with inflation.

Excellent explanation of HOW new rates are calculated. That process is clear.

So please explain the justification for WHY it's okay that everybody pays a different amount for the exact same amenities. Everybody should pay the same amount for the same amenities. Not $179 for them, $195 for them, $210 for them.

What if you and I are in line at the grocery store with identical items in our carts. The bill should be identical. If mine is more, is my jug of milk more valuable than yours? Why was I charged a different amount for identical things?

What if our houses (next door to each other) are assessed at $500k, and all exemptions are equal. Why would it be okay for my tax bill to be less than your tax bill?

[Bill14564]

Excellent explanation of HOW new rates are calculated. That process is clear.

So please explain the justification for WHY it's okay that everybody pays a different amount for the exact same amenities. Everybody should pay the same amount for the same amenities. Not $179 for them, $195 for them, $210 for them.

What if you and I are in line at the grocery store with identical items in our carts. The bill should be identical. If mine is more, is my jug of milk more valuable than yours? Why was I charged a different amount for identical things?

What if our houses (next door to each other) are assessed at $500k, and all exemptions are equal. Why would it be okay for my tax bill to be less than your tax bill?

That is a good example and explains why things are the way they are - the exemptions on the three homes are NOT equal so the tax bills are NOT the same.

You and your two neighbors have identical homes assessed at $500K. One of your neighbors purchased three years ago, you purchased two years ago, and your other neighbor purchased last year. Your tax bills are all different!

The neighbor from three years ago filed for the Homestead Exemption and is benefiting from two years of the Save Our Homes limitation on taxable assessment increases. He pays less than you.

You purchased two years ago and filed for the Homestead Exemption so you are benefiting from that and but only one year of Save Our Homes if that. You will pay a little more.

The assessed value of your other neighbor's home was just adjusted to *his* exemptions rather than those of the previous owner so his tax bill just increased quite a bit. His exemptions will kick in next year. His tax bill is higher than both of yours.

The same with amenity fees. Those that have been here longer started at a lower initial rate. While everyone's amenity fee increases annually by the CPI over the last 12 months (written into the deed restrictions), the initial rate which is set by the Developer each year typically increases more than the CPI. Therefore, the more years you have been in your home, the larger the difference between your amenity rate and that of a new home buyer.

There is one interesting difference between the amenity rate and the Save Our Homes reduction: the amenity rate resets when you purchase a new home but the reduction does not. When I purchase a home my amenity fee is set to the current initial rate regardless of what it was in my previous home. However, my Save Our Homes reduction is portable and can be carried over to the new home. Me and my neighbor are very likely NOT paying the same in property tax because we have a different history with the Save Our Home reduction.

[golfing eagles]

Has nothing to do with the sky falling. It is a question of, fairness, equality. Since we all have equal access to everything the "lifestyle" has to offer, shouldn't we all pay an equal access fee? The "chump change" amount seems like a cheap shot at folks who worked hard for every dollar they earned. Others are just naturally thrifty and want full, fair value for what they spend. A simple question that seems to have a not so simple answer.🫠🫠🫠

I get where you're coming from but I think ge was a physician, it may seem they make a lot of money in general but that's a job I wouldn't want. Based on the length of education, dealing with people within their personal space and the horrible condition people let their bodies get into I think the money is well earned and deserved.

True! But some who, regardless of their job/ career, end up with far more money than others. What seem "chump change" to one may seem significant or meaningful to another, depending upon what the expenditure is for. The term , "chump" is actually an insult, infers that said "chump" is of lesser value as a person. "Chump change", while a common enough expression, is actually insult by inference that a person's human or societal value is directly proportional to their wealth or lack of it.
Good of you to come to GE's defense, but I was not attacking him. I have too much respect for him to do that, regardless of the fact we do differ in our opinions.

Sorry, but when we are talking about $3,5,7/ month, that IS chump change and regardless of one's prior occupation nobody here is that marginal that it makes a difference. But if you must know, I was relatively poor for a physician. Many of my colleagues thought I was the "chump", I didn't pack my schedule, saw 2-4 patients/hour, gave away probably $2-3 million in free care to those that WERE that marginal. I wouldn't be insensitive enough to call , say, hundreds of dollars/month "chump change", but c'mon----$3 or 5 or even 10. Lets be real.
And BTW fdpaq----I respect you as well---if I didn't, I wouldn't bother debating you. Plus, every now and then we DO agree on SOMETHING :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Maker]

That is a good example and explains why things are the way they are - the exemptions on the three homes are NOT equal so the tax bills are NOT the same.

You and your two neighbors have identical homes assessed at $500K. One of your neighbors purchased three years ago, you purchased two years ago, and your other neighbor purchased last year. Your tax bills are all different!

The neighbor from three years ago filed for the Homestead Exemption and is benefiting from two years of the Save Our Homes limitation on taxable assessment increases. He pays less than you.

You purchased two years ago and filed for the Homestead Exemption so you are benefiting from that and but only one year of Save Our Homes if that. You will pay a little more.

The assessed value of your other neighbor's home was just adjusted to *his* exemptions rather than those of the previous owner so his tax bill just increased quite a bit. His exemptions will kick in next year. His tax bill is higher than both of yours.

The same with amenity fees. Those that have been here longer started at a lower initial rate. While everyone's amenity fee increases annually by the CPI over the last 12 months (written into the deed restrictions), the initial rate which is set by the Developer each year typically increases more than the CPI. Therefore, the more years you have been in your home, the larger the difference between your amenity rate and that of a new home buyer.

There is one interesting difference between the amenity rate and the Save Our Homes reduction: the amenity rate resets when you purchase a new home but the reduction does not. When I purchase a home my amenity fee is set to the current initial rate regardless of what it was in my previous home. However, my Save Our Homes reduction is portable and can be carried over to the new home. Me and my neighbor are very likely NOT paying the same in property tax because we have a different history with the Save Our Home reduction.

The example was two houses (of any age or style) are exactly equal in assessed value (and exemptions) are both taxed at the same rate per $1000
Exactly same property taxes. All the other words about ages, size, etc are irrelevant when assessed values are identical.

In the amenity fee thinking, one house would be taxed at a different amount.
But that would be unfair.

What is unclear about this?

[Bill14564]

The example was two houses (of any age or style) are exactly equal in assessed value (and exemptions) are both taxed at the same rate per $1000
Exactly same property taxes. All the other words about ages, size, etc are irrelevant when assessed values are identical.

In the amenity fee thinking, one house would be taxed at a different amount.
But that would be unfair.

What is unclear about this?

You are ignoring the details that result in the amenity fee being different.

To compare apples to apples you would have two homes purchased at exactly the same time. In that case, the amenity fee for the two homes would be exactly the same just as the exemptions and property tax.

If the amenity fee was different then the reason was the homes were purchased in different years. If the homes were purchased in different years then the exemptions would NOT be exactly the same and the property tax would NOT be the same.

[rhood]

Can you explain an amenity fee difference of over $20 for two homes next door to each other. One is $179 the other is $201. Most in the neighborhood are in the $185-$195 range.
I’m not complaining, just trying to understand how it works. Must be a reason.


Bill14564’s answers here have been spot on.

Concerning the Prevailing rate adjustments, they usually happen in January, right after the developer closes out their books for the previous tax year. Unlike the clowns in Washington who use the CPI as a political football and tinker with the calculations each year to try to make themselves look good, the developer has to live in the real world of real cost increases. The amenities for the developer are simply another business unit (applies only to the ones they own - those south of SR44) and have to calculate exactly what it costs them to run and maintain the amenities they own and adjust the Prevailing rate each year to ensure they operate a sustainable business unit. Once they know the number then a new prevailing rate for new homes is established.

The deed restrictions define how the amenity fee can be adjusted. Annually the CPI is used to make this adjustment in what each home pays (it’s calculated every month for the past 12 months which is what homes next to each other may get different adjustments). The CPI is however a looser from a financial prospective as it doesn’t ever keep up with the real cost increases, so each year the boards have to work hard to try to contain costs with the effectively decreasing budget (due to inflation). The only relief to this losing battle comes with the reset that occurs when a home is sold and the new owner pays the current prevailing rate.

Many falsely believe that as the villages grows and more homes pay amenity fees that that should cover the cost increased due to inflation. What they fail to understand is that these new homes are paying for the organic growth in the budget and not the inflationary budget increases. Organic growth being the increase in budget costs caused by adding new amenity facilities (and their O&M costs) as the community and number of homes grow. The CPI adjustment tries to address the inflationary budget increased, but as said earlier, it does a poor job at keeping up with inflation.

[MX rider]

Sorry, but when we are talking about $3,5,7/ month, that IS chump change and regardless of one's prior occupation nobody here is that marginal that it makes a difference. But if you must know, I was relatively poor for a physician. Many of my colleagues thought I was the "chump", I didn't pack my schedule, saw 2-4 patients/hour, gave away probably $2-3 million in free care to those that WERE that marginal. I wouldn't be insensitive enough to call , say, hundreds of dollars/month "chump change", but c'mon----$3 or 5 or even 10. Lets be real.
And BTW fdpaq----I respect you as well---if I didn't, I wouldn't bother debating you. Plus, every now and then we DO agree on SOMETHING :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

We're by no means rich. But I understood what you were saying. If the 3,5 or 7 dollars is going to be their breaking point, then TV may not be for them.
And yes, it's chump change to us as well. You can spend $7 on 1 drink at Starbucks.

Prices are going up everywhere, our amenity fee is no exception. Just a fact of life. Not everywhere is affordable for everyone. Just like we can't afford to live in Naples.

[MplsPete]

Your amenity fee of $189 per month covers a lot more than . . .

Now I'm confused. I see that number (189) frequently. But, earlier in this thread, I thought I saw people saying their amenity fees varied widely, from under 189 to over 200. So, does everyone really pay 189, or does the fee vary from house to house, even next door neighbors?

[MX rider]

Now I'm confused. I see that number (189) frequently. But, earlier in this thread, I thought I saw people saying their amenity fees varied widely, from under 189 to over 200. So, does everyone really pay 189, or does the fee vary from house to house, even next door neighbors?

Read some of the previous posts. More than a few explain it very well.
My advice is to just pay it, move on and enjoy everything TV has to offer.
Life is good here.

[Maker]

You are ignoring the details that result in the amenity fee being different.

To compare apples to apples you would have two homes purchased at exactly the same time. In that case, the amenity fee for the two homes would be exactly the same just as the exemptions and property tax.

If the amenity fee was different then the reason was the homes were purchased in different years. If the homes were purchased in different years then the exemptions would NOT be exactly the same and the property tax would NOT be the same.

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?

[Topspinmo]

Your amenity fee of $189 per month covers a lot more than just the golf... In fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.

Look around at all the common areas, such as all of the flower beds along Morse and Buena Vista....plus the swimming pools, rec center maintenance, etc etc.

Sure, each house has its own maintenance needs.



‘fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.’

Do you have figures to back that fact up? Golf courses I bet are half of amenities fees cost?

[Topspinmo]

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?


It’s system we agreed to when we moved in. Amenities is not hidden cost like end of year maintenance fees that bounce all over place depending on what district you live in.

[Topspinmo]

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?


It’s what we all agreed to when we brought.

[Jayhawk]

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?


So unless you recently moved and want yours raised to $195 per month, since that's the current start rate, call up TV and tell them you want to pay more. Blow their minds.

[Bill14564]

‘fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.’

Do you have figures to back that fact up? Golf courses I bet are half of amenities fees cost?

I'll take that bet! Here are the figures:

23-24 SLAD Budget:
Amenity fees in: $85M
Golf course O&M out: $3.3M (4%)

23-24 RAD Budget:
Amenity fees in: $48M
Golf Mgmt Svcs out: $1.7M (4%)

[Goldwingnut]

‘fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.’

Do you have figures to back that fact up? Golf courses I bet are half of amenities fees cost?

Here are the FACTS from the proposed budgets for RAD and SLAD

Executive golf is about 3% of the total amenity budget

[Bogie Shooter]

End of BS statements on wild percentage guesses.
Case closed!:wave:

[golfing eagles]

Here are the FACTS from the proposed budgets for RAD and SLAD

Executive golf is about 3% of the total amenity budget

Thank you for the FACTS, I know you posted something similar last year, nice of you to repost it. So, 3% of $190 is $5.70/month for exec golf. I stand by my previous posts

[tophcfa]

Here are the FACTS from the proposed budgets for RAD and SLAD

Executive golf is about 3% of the total amenity budget

Hey Don, just curious, what is SLAD and RAD? My understanding was that the amenities were controlled by the PWAC and the AAC? Are they subcommittees that report to PWAC and AAC?

I am surprised at how low a percentage Executive golf is of the total budgets, but then again, that might help explain the deteriorating conditions over the years? I can only imagine what it costs to maintain and heat (in the winter) the approximately 112 swimming pools.

[dewilson58]

Hey Don, just curious, what is SLAD and RAD? My understanding was that the amenities were controlled by the PWAC and the AAC? Are they subcommittees that report to PWAC and AAC?

I am surprised at how low a percentage Executive golf is of the total budgets, but then again, that might help explain the deteriorating conditions over the years? I can only imagine what it costs to maintain and heat (in the winter) the approximately 112 swimming pools.

What I was surprised about is how "cheap" all the flowers are to replace.

;)

[4$ALE]

Hey Don, just curious, what is SLAD and RAD? My understanding was that the amenities were controlled by the PWAC and the AAC? Are they subcommittees that report to PWAC and AAC?

I am surprised at how low a percentage Executive golf is of the total budgets, but then again, that might help explain the deteriorating conditions over the years? I can only imagine what it costs to maintain and heat (in the winter) the approximately 112 swimming pools.

:)https://www.districtgov.org/images/Acronyms.pdf?v=20230721

[JMintzer]

‘fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.’

Do you have figures to back that fact up? Golf courses I bet are half of amenities fees cost?

You'd lose that bet... The actual amount (from those who actually know how much money is spent $$$) has been posted, multiple times...

IIRC it's less than 10%... Closer to 5%...

[JMintzer]

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?

And my property tax rate should be the same as the full timers who receive the "Sunshine Discount"...

But it's not... Should I get benefits because I pay more?

Is your mortgage rated the same for your neighbor, who has the exact same mortgage amount? No? Why not?

[JMintzer]

You'd lose that bet... The actual amount (from those who actually know how much money is spent $$$) has been posted, multiple times...

IIRC it's less than 10%... Closer to 5%...

It's 3% (per Don Wiley)... I stand corrected...

[Bogie Shooter]

It's 3% (per Don Wiley)... I stand corrected...

More posters should respond in this manner!⭐️

[JMintzer]

More posters should respond in this manner!⭐️

I don't mind doing it because it happens so rarely... :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[LeRoySmith]

I don't mind doing it because it happens so rarely... :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Oh my

[Goldwingnut]

Hey Don, just curious, what is SLAD and RAD? My understanding was that the amenities were controlled by the PWAC and the AAC? Are they subcommittees that report to PWAC and AAC?

I am surprised at how low a percentage Executive golf is of the total budgets, but then again, that might help explain the deteriorating conditions over the years? I can only imagine what it costs to maintain and heat (in the winter) the approximately 112 swimming pools.

SLAD is the Sumter Landing Amenities Division and RAD is the Recreation Amenities Division- these are divisions of the SLCDD and VCCDD that are the actual owners/controllers of the amenities north of 44 and north of 466 respectively.

PWAC and the AAC are resident advisory bodies that provide guidance to the SLAD/RAD. Neither has the actual authority to make a final decision or spend a dime of the amenity fees that are collected north of 44, any decision made has to be approved by the owners of the respective properties - SLAD & RAD

I’ll post the AAC and PWAC charter documents later this morning when I’m on my PC and not my iPad for all to read and understand that the AAC is only an advisory body for the amenities, regardless of they think the outcome of the lawsuit was.

Just a quick reality check here on the AAC and PWAC - the district office and the developer won’t like the following paragraphs too much, they’re much too blunt.

VCCDD and SLCDD are the owners of the amenities north of 466 and between 466 and 44, as such they have the sole authority and responsibility as a government body (a CDD under FS190) to manage, operate, and make all financial decisions related to the amenities they own. The AAC and PWAC are buffers between the VCCDD and SLCDD (the amenity owners) and the residents. Why? Because the VCCDD and SLCDD are land owner elected boards and the only significant landowner in these CDD is the developer, you can call it a “landowner election” but the reality is it is a developer appointed board. These boards as the owners do not need the input from the AAC and PWAC to make any decision, but they do want the input from the residents, they just don’t want to have to deal with the residents directly.

Acting as buffers, the AAC and PWAC get to sit through the sometimes hours of complaints, uninformed opinions, and whipped up hysteria (thank you POA barf ) that frequently accompanies difficult and controversial issues in the community. Having been a member of the PWAC for nearly 8 years, I make the previous statement form a first hand and informed position. The VCCDD and SLCDD boards are spared these joyous times. After receiving the residents inputs the AAC and PWAC make their recommendations to the parent boards for final actions.

It’s been said many times over by staff that the parent boards have never overridden or gone against the recommendation of the AAC and PWAC. This is a true statement. Why it is so is important more to the VCCDD and SLAD than to the residents. The first time they override the AAC or PWAC they effectively neuter these committees and invalidate their existence; this translates to that they get to deal with the residents directly, something they really don’t want to do. The other reason this is important is finger pointing - if the committees make a poor decision, the boards can point back to the committees and say they were doing what was requested by the residents. These committees are the board’s poop shield and scapegoat. The first time they override a PWAC or AAC decision, PWAC and the AAC need no longer exist.

Concerning decision making: when a CDD board, Committee, or even the BOCC convene a meeting most the the decisions to be made by the boards are already determined in the minds of the board members before they walk into the room. This isn’t because they are given direction by anyone on how to vote, it is because they have spent the time researching and understanding the issues beforehand. They have been doing their due diligence to understand the facts, the laws associated, ramifications, impacts, and community inputs of the issues. They are making the decisions based on an educated and informed position that many times does not agree with the passion of the resident that come to speak at the meetings. Be glad for this, because otherwise it becomes mob rule and decisions would be made based on who can gather the biggest crowds and can yell the loudest.

If you want to understand why board members make the decisions they do, ask them. Most all I know will take the time to help you understand why they have come to their decision. They are willing to have a calm and reasonable conversation with most any constituent. Does this mean that you can argue with them, get in their face, or threaten them? Not hardly, if you try these tactics the response you’ll likely get is they allow you to vent and then thank you for your input, they ignore you and walk away, or maybe even get law enforcement involved and have you removed. Your right to freedom of speech does not give you the right to disrupt a public meeting or verbally or physically abuse or accost another person or an elected official.

[tophcfa]

SLAD is the Sumter Landing Amenities Division and RAD is the Recreation Amenities Division- these are divisions of the SLCDD and VCCDD that are the actual owners/controllers of the amenities north of 44 and north of 466 respectively.

PWAC and the AAC are resident advisory bodies that provide guidance to the SLAD/RAD. Neither has the actual authority to make a final decision or spend a dime of the amenity fees that are collected north of 44, any decision made has to be approved by the owners of the respective properties - SLAD & RAD

I’ll post the AAC and PWAC charter documents later this morning when I’m on my PC and not my iPad for all to read and understand that the AAC is only an advisory body for the amenities, regardless of they think the outcome of the lawsuit was.

Just a quick reality check here on the AAC and PWAC - the district office and the developer won’t like the following paragraphs too much, they’re much too blunt.

VCCDD and SLCDD are the owners of the amenities north of 466 and between 466 and 44, as such they have the sole authority and responsibility as a government body (a CDD under FS190) to manage, operate, and make all financial decisions related to the amenities they own. The AAC and PWAC are buffers between the VCCDD and SLCDD (the amenity owners) and the residents. Why? Because the VCCDD and SLCDD are land owner elected boards and the only significant landowner in these CDD is the developer, you can call it a “landowner election” but the reality is it is a developer appointed board. These boards as the owners do not need the input from the AAC and PWAC to make any decision, but they do want the input from the residents, they just don’t want to have to deal with the residents directly.

Acting as buffers, the AAC and PWAC get to sit through the sometimes hours of complaints, uninformed opinions, and whipped up hysteria (thank you POA barf ) that frequently accompanies difficult and controversial issues in the community. Having been a member of the PWAC for nearly 8 years, I make the previous statement form a first hand and informed position. The VCCDD and SLCDD boards are spared these joyous times. After receiving the residents inputs the AAC and PWAC make their recommendations to the parent boards for final actions.

It’s been said many times over by staff that the parent boards have never overridden or gone against the recommendation of the AAC and PWAC. This is a true statement. Why it is so is important more to the VCCDD and SLAD than to the residents. The first time they override the AAC or PWAC they effectively neuter these committees and invalidate their existence; this translates to that they get to deal with the residents directly, something they really don’t want to do. The other reason this is important is finger pointing - if the committees make a poor decision, the boards can point back to the committees and say they were doing what was requested by the residents. These committees are the board’s poop shield and scapegoat. The first time they override a PWAC or AAC decision, PWAC and the AAC need no longer exist.

Concerning decision making: when a CDD board, Committee, or even the BOCC convene a meeting most the the decisions to be made by the boards are already determined in the minds of the board members before they walk into the room. This isn’t because they are given direction by anyone on how to vote, it is because they have spent the time researching and understanding the issues beforehand. They have been doing their due diligence to understand the facts, the laws associated, ramifications, impacts, and community inputs of the issues. They are making the decisions based on an educated and informed position that many times does not agree with the passion of the resident that come to speak at the meetings. Be glad for this, because otherwise it becomes mob rule and decisions would be made based on who can gather the biggest crowds and can yell the loudest.

If you want to understand why board members make the decisions they do, ask them. Most all I know will take the time to help you understand why they have come to their decision. They are willing to have a calm and reasonable conversation with most any constituent. Does this mean that you can argue with them, get in their face, or threaten them? Not hardly, if you try these tactics the response you’ll likely get is they allow you to vent and then thank you for your input, they ignore you and walk away, or maybe even get law enforcement involved and have you removed. Your right to freedom of speech does not give you the right to disrupt a public meeting or verbally or physically abuse or accost another person or an elected official.

Thanks Don, very informative and sheds a lot of light on the reasoning behind that branch of the alphabet soup tree. To the casual observer, all the different boards and acronyms cloud transparency and make it very difficult to understand the inner workings of the whole CDD structure. It must be very difficult being a PWAC/AAC board member. Kind of like being the meat in a sandwich, where one slice of bread is the developer and the other is the Ammenity fee paying residents. Not an enviable position when controversial issues arise.

[Shipping up to Boston]

SLAD is the Sumter Landing Amenities Division and RAD is the Recreation Amenities Division- these are divisions of the SLCDD and VCCDD that are the actual owners/controllers of the amenities north of 44 and north of 466 respectively.

PWAC and the AAC are resident advisory bodies that provide guidance to the SLAD/RAD. Neither has the actual authority to make a final decision or spend a dime of the amenity fees that are collected north of 44, any decision made has to be approved by the owners of the respective properties - SLAD & RAD

I’ll post the AAC and PWAC charter documents later this morning when I’m on my PC and not my iPad for all to read and understand that the AAC is only an advisory body for the amenities, regardless of they think the outcome of the lawsuit was.

Just a quick reality check here on the AAC and PWAC - the district office and the developer won’t like the following paragraphs too much, they’re much too blunt.

VCCDD and SLCDD are the owners of the amenities north of 466 and between 466 and 44, as such they have the sole authority and responsibility as a government body (a CDD under FS190) to manage, operate, and make all financial decisions related to the amenities they own. The AAC and PWAC are buffers between the VCCDD and SLCDD (the amenity owners) and the residents. Why? Because the VCCDD and SLCDD are land owner elected boards and the only significant landowner in these CDD is the developer, you can call it a “landowner election” but the reality is it is a developer appointed board. These boards as the owners do not need the input from the AAC and PWAC to make any decision, but they do want the input from the residents, they just don’t want to have to deal with the residents directly.

Acting as buffers, the AAC and PWAC get to sit through the sometimes hours of complaints, uninformed opinions, and whipped up hysteria (thank you POA barf ) that frequently accompanies difficult and controversial issues in the community. Having been a member of the PWAC for nearly 8 years, I make the previous statement form a first hand and informed position. The VCCDD and SLCDD boards are spared these joyous times. After receiving the residents inputs the AAC and PWAC make their recommendations to the parent boards for final actions.

It’s been said many times over by staff that the parent boards have never overridden or gone against the recommendation of the AAC and PWAC. This is a true statement. Why it is so is important more to the VCCDD and SLAD than to the residents. The first time they override the AAC or PWAC they effectively neuter these committees and invalidate their existence; this translates to that they get to deal with the residents directly, something they really don’t want to do. The other reason this is important is finger pointing - if the committees make a poor decision, the boards can point back to the committees and say they were doing what was requested by the residents. These committees are the board’s poop shield and scapegoat. The first time they override a PWAC or AAC decision, PWAC and the AAC need no longer exist.

Concerning decision making: when a CDD board, Committee, or even the BOCC convene a meeting most the the decisions to be made by the boards are already determined in the minds of the board members before they walk into the room. This isn’t because they are given direction by anyone on how to vote, it is because they have spent the time researching and understanding the issues beforehand. They have been doing their due diligence to understand the facts, the laws associated, ramifications, impacts, and community inputs of the issues. They are making the decisions based on an educated and informed position that many times does not agree with the passion of the resident that come to speak at the meetings. Be glad for this, because otherwise it becomes mob rule and decisions would be made based on who can gather the biggest crowds and can yell the loudest.

If you want to understand why board members make the decisions they do, ask them. Most all I know will take the time to help you understand why they have come to their decision. They are willing to have a calm and reasonable conversation with most any constituent. Does this mean that you can argue with them, get in their face, or threaten them? Not hardly, if you try these tactics the response you’ll likely get is they allow you to vent and then thank you for your input, they ignore you and walk away, or maybe even get law enforcement involved and have you removed. Your right to freedom of speech does not give you the right to disrupt a public meeting or verbally or physically abuse or accost another person or an elected official.

The POA (I am not a member) has been in existence since 1975. They represent hundreds if not (arguably) thousands of Villagers in their membership....and for that alone....should be respected. What I like about the organization is it is autonomous and independent. Most politicians don’t like this because.....ding ding ding, they can’t control it nor stifle their opinions and content. Although I did notice the ones that complain about them....still showed up at their Candidates Night on 7/18. It’s kind of like if someone has a YouTube channel and controls the narrative/content on there as well. I’m sure most understand the correlation.

The second to last paragraph......don’t look now but those words appear to be an endorsement of the BOCC as currently constituted. No argument there!

[Normal]

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