Crazy maintenance fee increase for Lake Denham

[frayedends]

Editing this post to remove the stuff I put that is irrelevant.

Lake Denham District 14 is having a 56% increase in maintenance fee after only one year. Seems excessive.

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

[kansasr]

Gotta say I'm not happy. First off, the Villages hides the fact there is an annual maintenance fee when buying a home. They talk about the bond (and try very hard not to mention the interest you pay on it). But they never even mention maintenance fee on top of amenity fees.

I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

Now I'm sorry, this is a bait and switch or someone royally messed up. We are a 1 year old neighborhood. Adding $330 to annual costs is not insignificant.

Nothing I can do but I have to vent. I don't trust the Villages at all anymore. Even if you do all your due diligence in finding the costs to live here, they will just jam more costs on you. Talk me off the ledge! :pray::laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

Well I'd certainly attend the budget meeting for your district. The biggest jump in your budget is for the Eastport Maintenance Advisory Committee which is the new committee down there for project wide fees for districts 14 and 15. That seems to account for about 77.5% of the increase in appropriations in next year's budget.

And comparing a veranda in your district to one in mine (12) it seems next year's assessment is about 29% higher in district 14.

Certainly some questions to get answers for.

[Stu from NYC]

We asked lots of questions and certainly knew about the maintenance fee as somebody has to pay for maintenance and upkeep. Did you think it was free?

Why it went up so much is a good question and suggest you go to a meeting and find out.

[frayedends]

We asked lots of questions and certainly knew about the maintenance fee as somebody has to pay for maintenance and upkeep. Did you think it was free?

Why it went up so much is a good question and suggest you go to a meeting and find out.

Did I think it was free? I mean, maybe you missed this in my post...


I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

As I said, yes I knew about the maintenance fee. I actually happened upon it while checking other things. They certainly aren't up front about it, but a 56% increase in 1 year?

Anyhow I'm only part time so I can't go to the meeting as I won't be there. Still working.

[graciegirl]

That's a shame. If you were here all of the time you could see how well this place works and how well it is run. I do not find any shady dealings and I have lived here 18 years now.

[frayedends]

That's a shame. If you were here all of the time you could see how well this place works and how well it is run. I do not find any shady dealings and I have lived here 18 years now.

I'm there enough to know how well it's run. But my warning to people buying new, first check out the bond and the payment and the interest, that they do not mention. They tell you there is a bond paid over 30 years. They never mention the interest and you have to go onto the CDD website to find payment info.

Second, the maintenance fee that they never mentioned at all. I'm sure it's buried in the closing docs somewhere. Even then, I'm perfectly fine with the fee that I signed up for because I did my research. I also expect increases because maintenance costs obviously increase. But to raise the fee by $330 (56%) after only 1 year seems absurd to me.

[Normal]

There are many extras rarely mentioned. Everything is going up significantly to live here. Perhaps it’s the Fire fee, the maintenance fee or whatever. There are a lot of extras and they do add up.

This isn’t a pay once and you’re set type of place. To top it all off, insurance is going through the roof and grocery prices have gone off the charts. Just wait till you figure out your irrigation vs. household water bill and how it compares to homes north of 466.

[Pmgokey]

Gotta say I'm not happy. First off, the Villages hides the fact there is an annual maintenance fee when buying a home. They talk about the bond (and try very hard not to mention the interest you pay on it). But they never even mention maintenance fee on top of amenity fees.

I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

Now I'm sorry, this is a bait and switch or someone royally messed up. We are a 1 year old neighborhood. Adding $330 to annual costs is not insignificant.

Nothing I can do but I have to vent. I don't trust the Villages at all anymore. Even if you do all your due diligence in finding the costs to live here, they will just jam more costs on you. Talk me off the ledge! :pray::laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

I believe those maintenance fee increases are for the commercial areas, Lake Denham, Brownwood, Magnolia Plaza,Colony Plaza, etc.

[tophcfa]

Gotta say I'm not happy. First off, the Villages hides the fact there is an annual maintenance fee when buying a home. They talk about the bond (and try very hard not to mention the interest you pay on it). But they never even mention maintenance fee on top of amenity fees.

I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

Now I'm sorry, this is a bait and switch or someone royally messed up. We are a 1 year old neighborhood. Adding $330 to annual costs is not insignificant.

Nothing I can do but I have to vent. I don't trust the Villages at all anymore. Even if you do all your due diligence in finding the costs to live here, they will just jam more costs on you. Talk me off the ledge! :pray::laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

Something doesn’t seem right, one would reasonably expect a relatively low maintenance fee for residents in a new area, with all new stuff to be maintained? Based on your 56% increase, it appears your annual maintenance fee is well over $900. Our Village, north of 466, is approaching 30 years old and our annual maintenance bill is just below $400. Appears to be yet another compelling reason for prospective Villagers to consider a pre-owned home.

[Bill14564]

I'm there enough to know how well it's run. But my warning to people buying new, first check out the bond and the payment and the interest, that they do not mention. They tell you there is a bond paid over 30 years. They never mention the interest and you have to go onto the CDD website to find payment info.

Second, the maintenance fee that they never mentioned at all. I'm sure it's buried in the closing docs somewhere. Even then, I'm perfectly fine with the fee that I signed up for because I did my research. I also expect increases because maintenance costs obviously increase. But to raise the fee by $330 (56%) after only 1 year seems absurd to me.

Never mentioned at all:
On my annual bill I have six lines, property tax is one, the bond is another, and the maintenance fee is a third. I don't recall the realtor sitting down with me and going over each of the lines on the bill. I can say it probably wasn't mentioned but then neither were three other lines on the bill.

Interest on the bond:
Not as significant as it might be since it is probably low (maybe not for Denham) and you can't make advance payments to lower the amount of interest you pay. You have a choice, pay the 360 months (or whatever) or pay the current balance on the principal. We chose to pay the principal to have no bond payment going forward. Since the interest might vary for each "unit" (neighborhood) I wouldn't expect a realtor to have the number handy. The information on the payments is readily available on districtgov.org.

Maintenance increase:
56% is a huge increase, no doubt about that. $900 is a lot to pay for maintenance fee, no doubt about that either. Three possible reasons for the increase: 1. A new CDD is just now finding out what its expenses really are; 2. A new PWAC for some of the southern districts might have just found out what its expenses really are; or, 3. The SECO lighting increase might have hit the maintenance fee (though $330 seems steep for this). Along with the bond amortization info, districtgov.org also has a link to the minutes of your CDD board meetings. Find the recent meeting where the maintenance fee increase was discussed and see if any reason was given.

[frayedends]

I don't know what the SECO lighting is, electric company? We have Duke Energy.

But apart from all of this, we don't even have an adult pool in Lake Denham. It's frustrating.

Our interest on the bond is about 5.5%.

[Bogie Shooter]

I don't know what the SECO lighting is, electric company? We have Duke Energy.

But apart from all of this, we don't even have an adult pool in Lake Denham. It's frustrating.

Our interest on the bond is about 5.5%.

SECO Energy is a not-for-profit electric cooperative providing reliable, safe, and affordable electric service to over 240,000 members or roughly 500,000 consumers. Our seven Central Florida counties include Citrus, Hernando, Lake, Levy, Marion, Pasco, and Sumter. SECO Energy is the third-largest electric co-op in Florida and the seventh largest in the nation. One of the most important distinctions between other types of utilities and SECO is that we are member owned

[Bill14564]

I don't know what the SECO lighting is, electric company? We have Duke Energy.

But apart from all of this, we don't even have an adult pool in Lake Denham. It's frustrating.

Our interest on the bond is about 5.5%.

SECO is an electric coop that serves a lot of the Villages but apparently not your area. They are significantly increasing the rental rates for light poles which may result in my maintenance assessment increasing. Since you are under Duke Energy, this does not apply to you.

Unless you have $30K or so that you want to use to pay off the bond, the interest rate doesn't matter much to you. It would certainly be a consideration for determining whether to find the $30K but if you have no intention to spend it then the bond payment is what it is.

I looked at the CDD14 budget. By far the largest increase is in your contribution to EMAC. EMAC is the CDD14/CDD15/Eastport version of our PWAC. It looks like EMAC was stood up in the second half of 2023. Now that Eastport is coming together there is maintenance work to be done. The landscaping cost covered by EMAC increased from $400K this year to $2.7M in the upcoming year. This appears to be the primary cause of your maintenance increase.

[frayedends]

SECO is an electric coop that serves a lot of the Villages but apparently not your area. They are significantly increasing the rental rates for light poles which may result in my maintenance assessment increasing. Since you are under Duke Energy, this does not apply to you.

Unless you have $30K or so that you want to use to pay off the bond, the interest rate doesn't matter much to you. It would certainly be a consideration for determining whether to find the $30K but if you have no intention to spend it then the bond payment is what it is.

I looked at the CDD14 budget. By far the largest increase is in your contribution to EMAC. EMAC is the CDD14/CDD15/Eastport version of our PWAC. It looks like EMAC was stood up in the second half of 2023. Now that Eastport is coming together there is maintenance work to be done. The landscaping cost covered by EMAC increased from $400K this year to $2.7M in the upcoming year. This appears to be the primary cause of your maintenance increase.

Thanks for the info. Never heard of EMAC or PWAC or any of that. Regarding my bond, I will pay it off, most likely, in 2 years when I sell up north and pay off my house down there. Of course that is if we decide to stay in Lake Denham. Never know what new is coming. But I like Lake Denham and our lot and the price we paid. Everything newer is more expensive.

[Altavia]

Thanks Bill!

What does "It looks like EMAC was stood up in the second half of 2023." mean?

I don't follows the connection between CDD 14 &15?

VCDD Districts Map (https://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/districtMapIndex.aspx)

[Bill14564]

Thanks Bill!

What does "It looks like EMAC was stood up in the second half of 2023." mean?

I don't follows the connection between CDD 14 &15?

VCDD Districts Map (https://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/districtMapIndex.aspx)

It looks like EMAC was created by resolution 2023-09 which was signed in July 2023.

The connection between 14, 15, and Eastport is they are newer than 13. Someone decided PWAC was large enough so a new area-wide structure was stood up and called EMAC.

[Altavia]

It looks like EMAC was created by resolution 2023-09 which was signed in July 2023.

The connection between 14, 15, and Eastport is they are newer than 13. Someone decided PWAC was large enough so a new area-wide structure was stood up and called EMAC.

Does that mean the maintenance fees might come down as the areas around Eastport fill in?

Is Middleton paying their fair share?

[Normal]

Monthly and Annual Expenses add up here.

Typically you will spend about:

Grass cutting 100 per month (1200 annually)
Spraying for bugs and fertilization 50 per month (600 annually)
Home Owners Insurance 150 a month (1600 annually)…on the cheap side
Amenities 195 a month (2340 annually)
Auto Insurance 130 a month (1560 annually)….it keeps going up in our No Fault St
Irrigation, water, trash 150 a month (1800 annually)
Internet 50 a month (600 annually)
City Tax (Wildwood or Leesburg) about 100 a month (1200 annually)
Electric about 200 a month (2400 annually)

Annual expenses would be:
County taxes and school if you are new to Florida would be about 6000
Fire protection about 320
Bond about 2000
Cart pass for golfing 140

A fair assessment would be costs for a home run about 21,700 per year for many.

Note: I didn’t even add in your “Maintenance Fee”, if you live here you will have bills!


This budget doesn’t include your groceries, cell phones, television, a golf cart and maintain it etc. You should also consider entertainment and going out for dining.

Don’t expect to buy a home and not spend money here, it doesn’t happen.

You can cut some of the household budget by buying a home without a bond, but then insurance could be higher. You can also cut your own grass and spray your house for bugs with DIY chemicals. You can make sure to buy outside of Wildwood and Leesburg jurisdictions saving quite a bit.

[kansasr]

Does that mean the maintenance fees might come down as the areas around Eastport fill in?

Is Middleton paying their fair share?

Middleton is not part of this. They are totally separate.

[Marathon Man]

Well I'd certainly attend the budget meeting for your district. .

Excellent advice. Unfortunately, most people never get involved or become knowledgeable about how our community operates. That leads to a lot of unnecessary anger.

[Marathon Man]

That's a shame. If you were here all of the time you could see how well this place works and how well it is run. I do not find any shady dealings and I have lived here 18 years now.

Well said.

[frayedends]

Monthly and Annual Expenses add up here.

Typically you will spend about:

Grass cutting 100 per month (1200 annually)
Spraying for bugs and fertilization 50 per month (600 annually)
Home Owners Insurance 150 a month (1600 annually)…on the cheap side
Amenities 195 a month (2340 annually)
Auto Insurance 130 a month (1560 annually)….it keeps going up in our No Fault St
Irrigation, water, trash 150 a month (1800 annually)
Internet 50 a month (600 annually)
City Tax (Wildwood or Leesburg) about 100 a month (1200 annually)
Electric about 200 a month (2400 annually)

Annual expenses would be:
County taxes and school if you are new to Florida would be about 6000
Fire protection about 320
Bond about 2000
Cart pass for golfing 140

A fair assessment would be costs for a home run about 21,700 per year for many.

Note: I didn’t even add in your “Maintenance Fee”, if you live here you will have bills!


This budget doesn’t include your groceries, cell phones, television, a golf cart and maintain it etc. You should also consider entertainment and going out for dining.

Don’t expect to buy a home and not spend money here, it doesn’t happen.

You can cut some of the household budget by buying a home without a bond, but then insurance could be higher. You can also cut your own grass and spray your house for bugs with DIY chemicals. You can make sure to buy outside of Wildwood and Leesburg jurisdictions saving quite a bit.

No offense but none of this has anything to do with the point of my thread. I know what it costs to live here. With the exception of my utilities being lower because I’m part time, I pay all the same bills as everyone.

Only point to this was a 56% increase in a year seems excessive.

[Marathon Man]

Something doesn’t seem right, one would reasonably expect a relatively low maintenance fee for residents in a new area, with all new stuff to be maintained? Based on your 56% increase, it appears your annual maintenance fee is well over $900. Our Village, north of 466, is approaching 30 years old and our annual maintenance bill is just below $400. Appears to be yet another compelling reason for prospective Villagers to consider a pre-owned home.

Not really. Maintenace fees are a mall part of the picture. Saving a small amount of money is not a compelling reason to purchase in one area over another. The house itself is number one. Amount of maintenance fees - way down the list.

[Normal]

No offense but none of this has anything to do with the point of my thread. I know what it costs to live here. With the exception of my utilities being lower because I’m part time, I pay all the same bills as everyone.

Only point to this was a 56% increase in a year seems excessive.

Got it, I guess what I’m saying is it isn’t a cheap place to live. I think many believe you buy and life becomes like an all inclusive resort. Far from it!

The 56% increase is excessive. Our Fire assessment increase saw a similar jump. It went from 124 dollars to 320 dollars for a 158 percent increase. I wonder what else is coming?

[Altavia]

Middleton is not part of this. They are totally separate.

Understood, but there's shared resources such as the MMP's.

On second thought, that works the other way also - so never mind ;-)

[BrianL99]

Gotta say I'm not happy. First off, the Villages hides the fact there is an annual maintenance fee when buying a home. They talk about the bond (and try very hard not to mention the interest you pay on it). But they never even mention maintenance fee on top of amenity fees.

I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

Now I'm sorry, this is a bait and switch or someone royally messed up. We are a 1 year old neighborhood. Adding $330 to annual costs is not insignificant.

Nothing I can do but I have to vent. I don't trust the Villages at all anymore. Even if you do all your due diligence in finding the costs to live here, they will just jam more costs on you. Talk me off the ledge! :pray::laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

In case you haven't noticed, inflation has run rampant they last few years. As I mentioned in a post on another thread, the cost for Community Watch alone, increased 50% this year. All this rampant spending by the District and the County, has to get paid by someone ... you, me and the rest of the residents. (CW isn't paid for with maintenance fees. I just used that as an example, because I'm familiar with that budget item).

Have you been to a District Budget meeting? Go watch & listen to one. You'll be appalled at the kind of people who are running The Villages government. Most of these people couldn't manage a lemonade stand and the District Administration leads them around like they're fat kids, looking for a chocolate bar.

[RoseyRed]

Gotta say I'm not happy. First off, the Villages hides the fact there is an annual maintenance fee when buying a home. They talk about the bond (and try very hard not to mention the interest you pay on it). But they never even mention maintenance fee on top of amenity fees.

I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

Now I'm sorry, this is a bait and switch or someone royally messed up. We are a 1 year old neighborhood. Adding $330 to annual costs is not insignificant.

Nothing I can do but I have to vent. I don't trust the Villages at all anymore. Even if you do all your due diligence in finding the costs to live here, they will just jam more costs on you. Talk me off the ledge! :pray::laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

We have made 2 trips to TV for life style visits. A lot of research and a mortgage broker helped us to understand the bonds, maintenance fees, etc. The 56% increase is crazy, especially looking at the other districts and the fact they are not increasing that much! We have been discussing renting due to things just like this. Thanks for sharing! We can now look for the particular districts and their cost.

[frayedends]

We have made 2 trips to TV for life style visits. A lot of research and a mortgage broker helped us to understand the bonds, maintenance fees, etc. The 56% increase is crazy, especially looking at the other districts and the fact they are not increasing that much! We have been discussing renting due to things just like this. Thanks for sharing! We can now look for the particular districts and their cost.

I’m hoping this is a one time increase of this much due to whatever new crap they ran into. As long as future increases are more reasonable I’ll be okay. But if this can be expected yearly I’d quickly run out of funds. Or at least cut my bourbon budget.

[Bogie Shooter]

In case you haven't noticed, inflation has run rampant they last few years. As I mentioned in a post on another thread, the cost for Community Watch alone, increased 50% this year. All this rampant spending by the District and the County, has to get paid by someone ... you, me and the rest of the residents. (CW isn't paid for with maintenance fees. I just used that as an example, because I'm familiar with that budget item).

Have you been to a District Budget meeting? Go watch & listen to one. You'll be appalled at the kind of people who are running The Villages government. Most of these people couldn't manage a lemonade stand and the District Administration leads them around like they're fat kids, looking for a chocolate bar.

Can’t anybody run for a district board? There’s your chance…….

[LeRoySmith]

I’m hoping this is a one time increase of this much due to whatever new crap they ran into. As long as future increases are more reasonable I’ll be okay. But if this can be expected yearly I’d quickly run out of funds. Or at least cut my bourbon budget.

I plan to go to the meeting and see what I can learn. I'll let you know if I learn anything.

I'd think after 13 previous districts they'd have a pretty good formula (that formula may be start low while you're selling so it's not too much of a shock and increase 2nd year after most are sold). I also noticed some excavation/plumbing along the walking paths next to the preserve but that would have been a 20-25k project. There are also several places where they have pond overflows need to be reworked next to some of the swamps. At least one 'pond' looks like it wasn't dug deep enough, maybe it needs excavated. There is some new path along 470, maybe that?

I have opened a few very large commercial projects and if the mantenance budge had been off by 50% heads would probably have rolled.

[Papa_lecki]

I'd think after 13 previous districts they'd have a pretty good formula (that formula may be start low while you're selling so it's not too much of a shock and increase 2nd year after most are sold). I also noticed some excavation/plumbing along the walking paths next to the preserve but that would have been a 20-25k project.

I bet, when they prepared the budget, they were told development was going in certain places, and how many home to plan for.
Somewhere, the assumptions in the budget didn’t match realty

Ask what assumptions were used in the budget prep.

[frayedends]

I’m a still a bit confused on that Ewac or whatever but apparently it changed our budget by over 1 million. People on the Lake Denham Facebook pages are not happy. We don’t even have an adult pool. Landscaping isn’t maintained that well, etc.

[Rainger99]

Can’t anybody run for a district board? There’s your chance…….

I don’t think you can run until 6 years after the district was created. For the first six years, it appears that the developer controls the entire board.

The Board of Supervisors is currently comprised of five landowner seats, which means all five supervisors were elected by landowner votes (one vote per acre or part thereof). After six years of existence, and 250 registered voters residing in the District, the seats will transition in staggered terms to qualified seats. Once the transition begins, eventually all supervisors will be elected by ‘qualified electors’ (registered voters) residing in the District. They are elected on a non-partisan basis on the general election ballot.

[Topspinmo]

Something doesn’t seem right, one would reasonably expect a relatively low maintenance fee for residents in a new area, with all new stuff to be maintained? Based on your 56% increase, it appears your annual maintenance fee is well over $900. Our Village, north of 466, is approaching 30 years old and our annual maintenance bill is just below $400. Appears to be yet another compelling reason for prospective Villagers to consider a pre-owned home.

I still be watchful which district, some costs continually has increased if that’s financial worry?

[Altavia]

I’m a still a bit confused on that Ewac or whatever but apparently it changed our budget by over 1 million. People on the Lake Denham Facebook pages are not happy. We don’t even have an adult pool. Landscaping isn’t maintained that well, etc.

I agree it does not compute.

Don Wiley is one of the few people who can break. down the complexities here to a level I can comprehend.

[Goldwingnut]

I agree it does not compute.

Don Wiley is one of the few people who can break. down the complexities here to a level I can comprehend.

I’ll have more facts on this issue in a day or two, I am checking on some information but I’m also tied up with both the BOCC election and getting ready for a Gold Wingnut Live broadcast at 3:00 PM today. I’ll try to address some of it this afternoon if I’m able to get the information in time.

[Goldwingnut]

I don’t think you can run until 6 years after the district was created. For the first six years, it appears that the developer controls the entire board.

The Board of Supervisors is currently comprised of five landowner seats, which means all five supervisors were elected by landowner votes (one vote per acre or part thereof). After six years of existence, and 250 registered voters residing in the District, the seats will transition in staggered terms to qualified seats. Once the transition begins, eventually all supervisors will be elected by ‘qualified electors’ (registered voters) residing in the District. They are elected on a non-partisan basis on the general election ballot.

The Land Owner Elections will be held in November for seats 3, 4, & 5 of CDD14. Each land owner (a joint ownership is still only a single land owner) is entitled to one vote for each acre or portion there of that is owned. If you own a 1/4 acre lot you get one vote, if you own 2 acres you get 2 votes, if you own 1 1/8 acres you get 2 votes. When the board was first elected there was but one land owner, the developer, and they owned all the acres of land. Now they own very few acres as they have been sold as homes or deeded to the county (as roadways), or have been deeded to the CDD (the public areas).

Residents can submit their names for consideration to be CDD supervisors for seats 3, 4, & 5, and the resident landowners hold an overwhelming majority of the votes in the election.

A word of caution to anyone considering running, your first year is a crash course in budget realities and budget law, and you will quickly learn that online rhetoric and digital courage is a far cry for the reality of balancing a government budget. And of course the first time you have to make a decision that someone dislikes (because of their own lack of knowledge and understanding) you pick up many new names besides CDD Supervisor, names like idiot, incompetence, puppet, lackey, and the like. It’s a thankless job and the pay is not worth the headaches.

[frayedends]

Not hidden and it’s not free.

Let me clarify for the folks that only read the first post before replying.

At the sales office when signing the initial purchase agreement (the $2500 down) they mentioned the bond price and that it’s paid over 30 years. They are also up front about the monthly amount it comes to. They also tell you how it’s billed yearly. They don’t mention the interest rate. I knew the payment had interest based on the numbers.

The maintenance fee was not mentioned. I did my due diligence and found that fee before I signed the final purchase contract with the large deposit. I knew of all the fees and costs before I purchased. But I did comment that they aren’t up front about some of these costs when selling a home. No big deal.

So again my thread is about a 56% increase after year one seeming excessive. Most of neighbors seem to agree.

In regard to the post quoted, not sure when I said I thought it was free.

[frayedends]

I’ll have more facts on this issue in a day or two, I am checking on some information but I’m also tied up with both the BOCC election and getting ready for a Gold Wingnut Live broadcast at 3:00 PM today. I’ll try to address some of it this afternoon if I’m able to get the information in time.

Thanks Don!

[scubawva]

The fees aren’t hidden or not disclosed. It’s clearly disclosed, you don’t need to dig for it. On The Villages .com page, on the “cost of living” section for each style of home it’s listed. Far from trying to hide the fact they exist an estimated cost is given.

I knew about the fee a year before I stepped foot in TV simply by looking at TV website.

Every agent discloses the fee when asking about costs. At Open Houses when asking about costs the fee. You simply missed those disclosures.

Why such an increase is worth pursuing. Is this typical of a new village?

[jimdecastro]

Never mentioned at all:
On my annual bill I have six lines, property tax is one, the bond is another, and the maintenance fee is a third. I don't recall the realtor sitting down with me and going over each of the lines on the bill. I can say it probably wasn't mentioned but then neither were three other lines on the bill.

Interest on the bond:
Not as significant as it might be since it is probably low (maybe not for Denham) and you can't make advance payments to lower the amount of interest you pay. You have a choice, pay the 360 months (or whatever) or pay the current balance on the principal. We chose to pay the principal to have no bond payment going forward. Since the interest might vary for each "unit" (neighborhood) I wouldn't expect a realtor to have the number handy. The information on the payments is readily available on districtgov.org.

Maintenance increase:
56% is a huge increase, no doubt about that. $900 is a lot to pay for maintenance fee, no doubt about that either. Three possible reasons for the increase: 1. A new CDD is just now finding out what its expenses really are; 2. A new PWAC for some of the southern districts might have just found out what its expenses really are; or, 3. The SECO lighting increase might have hit the maintenance fee (though $330 seems steep for this). Along with the bond amortization info, districtgov.org also has a link to the minutes of your CDD board meetings. Find the recent meeting where the maintenance fee increase was discussed and see if any reason was given.

1. Why would only CDD find this out?
2. The W in PWAC stands for "wide". They do not really operate CDD to CDD.
3. We have Duke here.

[Bill14564]

I’m a still a bit confused on that Ewac or whatever but apparently it changed our budget by over 1 million. People on the Lake Denham Facebook pages are not happy. We don’t even have an adult pool. Landscaping isn’t maintained that well, etc.

In July of 2023 an agreement was made for CDD14, CDD15, and the Eastport CDD to join a project-wide effort to provide certain common services such as landscape work. Prior to this the same work should have been being performed but each of the three members were either funding it individually or it had not yet been turned over by the Developer.

In theory, sharing common efforts across the project area (CDD14, CDD15, and Eastport) should have some efficiencies that save money. In theory, budget lines that previously supported this work should decrease while the budget line for contribution to the project-wide group increases. That does not appear to have happened.

Taking landscaping only, the budget line increased $40K. Since some of this work should now be provided by the project-wide effort (EMAC) and since the EMAC budget line significantly increased to cover landscaping, it isn't clear why CDD14 landscaping costs increased rather than decreased. This would be a good question for the CDD14 board.

It is possible that some of the new cost is due to the Developer transitioning some of these services to the CDD.

It is possible that some of the new cost is due to new areas being completed and added to the land to be maintained. (it cost nothing to maintain fields of dirt but costs more now that the grass and flowers have been put in).

It is possible that the cost to individual homeowners could decrease as more homes are built. However, more homes would also come with more area to be maintained by the EMAC and the funds from the additional homes might only cover the additional work.

These are all good questions for the CDD14 board during their budget sessions. There will be another chance to raise these questions during the upcoming public hearing on the maintenance fee increase.

Just a note: The adult pool would be an amenity covered by the amenity fee. Amenities such as pools are not part of the maintenance fee, the CDD14 budget, or the EMAC budget.

[La lamy]

I feel for you OP. Reminds me of what they do with new condos. They bait you to buy with a crazy low maintenance fee which quadruples in the next 4 years. They shouldn't be allowed to do such insane increases. If they didn't properly calculate the real costs it should be on them.

[jimdecastro]

Gotta say I'm not happy. First off, the Villages hides the fact there is an annual maintenance fee when buying a home. They talk about the bond (and try very hard not to mention the interest you pay on it). But they never even mention maintenance fee on top of amenity fees.

I did find it and I did see it was about $600/year for Lake Denham. Well today I found out they are increasing this by 56%!!!!

Now I'm sorry, this is a bait and switch or someone royally messed up. We are a 1 year old neighborhood. Adding $330 to annual costs is not insignificant.

Nothing I can do but I have to vent. I don't trust the Villages at all anymore. Even if you do all your due diligence in finding the costs to live here, they will just jam more costs on you. Talk me off the ledge! :pray::laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/MZYkZR5l.jpg

Not just LD - Newell and Dabney, too. The ONLY explanation would be that CDD 14 is moving away from The Developer control (happens at the 2-year mark). I would love to know what Citrus Grove's increase was in 2023 and what they pay now. In Unit 44 I go from $536 to $837. I am unhappy but it is not a HUGE deal because it is an annual fee - that my agent DID mention. I believe many think the Amenity Fee is going up 56% to $300 monthly - that would be unbelievable. I urge all CDD 14 residents to go Sept 12 (I will be in Orlando until noon and will head there myself). It is also worth mentioning that District 14 has far fewer amenities than others. We have only 1 adult pool and one family pool for 2 Villages. And we also had model homes AND lifestyle visit homes in Newell for the benefit of TV

[Cranky]

Does that mean the maintenance fees might come down as the areas around Eastport fill in?

Is Middleton paying their fair share?

Middleton has their own: MMAC. Our maintenance fee is going up to $2800 for the year for our Middleton home. This is why Middleton is failing. Can I afford it? Yes. But how many young families have $7k a year just for a bond and maintenance.

[Bill14564]

1. Why would only CDD find this out?
2. The W in PWAC stands for "wide". They do not really operate CDD to CDD.
3. We have Duke here.

I don't know if I completely understand what you are asking but here's my guess.

1. The CDD is new, the supervisors are new, and the budget is new. While good people made good guesses it is possible they found out through the year that they guessed low. Now they have more information and have created a more accurate budget.

2. The PWAC is involved with a project-wide agreement between CDD5-CDD13. The agreement provides for maintenance of certain items and areas common to those CDDs. For example, rather than each CDD having its own contract to mow the grass along the roadway within its boundaries, one single contract is used to cover grass mowing along all roadways within the project-wide area. The PWAC (CDD5-CDD13) performs work within each of the member CDDs.

The EMAC covers this common work in CDD14, CDD15, and Eastport. Apparently, a decision was made not to continue to expand the PWAC but to set up a new project-wide maintenance function for work beyond CDD13.

3. Yes, that was pointed out above. I was not aware of that. Since you have Duke, the SECO increase does not affect you.

[frayedends]

In July of 2023 an agreement was made for CDD14, CDD15, and the Eastport CDD to join a project-wide effort to provide certain common services such as landscape work. Prior to this the same work should have been being performed but each of the three members were either funding it individually or it had not yet been turned over by the Developer.

In theory, sharing common efforts across the project area (CDD14, CDD15, and Eastport) should have some efficiencies that save money. In theory, budget lines that previously supported this work should decrease while the budget line for contribution to the project-wide group increases. That does not appear to have happened.

Taking landscaping only, the budget line increased $40K. Since some of this work should now be provided by the project-wide effort (EMAC) and since the EMAC budget line significantly increased to cover landscaping, it isn't clear why CDD14 landscaping costs increased rather than decreased. This would be a good question for the CDD14 board.

It is possible that some of the new cost is due to the Developer transitioning some of these services to the CDD.

It is possible that some of the new cost is due to new areas being completed and added to the land to be maintained. (it cost nothing to maintain fields of dirt but costs more now that the grass and flowers have been put in).

It is possible that the cost to individual homeowners could decrease as more homes are built. However, more homes would also come with more area to be maintained by the EMAC and the funds from the additional homes might only cover the additional work.

These are all good questions for the CDD14 board during their budget sessions. There will be another chance to raise these questions during the upcoming public hearing on the maintenance fee increase.

Just a note: The adult pool would be an amenity covered by the amenity fee. Amenities such as pools are not part of the maintenance fee, the CDD14 budget, or the EMAC budget.

Thank you for this post. It definitely helps my understanding.

And wow you guys are active in the morning. So many posts in just the last hour. :)

[BubblesandPat]

I really don't commenting on these kinds of discussions...buuuuttt...
Before we moved here we did 2 years of research. Several really good youtubers who talk about the cost of living here. About all the "hidden " fees including use of spreadsheets etc. We talked to MLS agents not just the VLS. Remember the VLS are mainly salespeople who want that commission!
EVERYONE talked about interest on bonds. EVERYONE talked about fees. So we bought pre-owned in our budget...we didn't add a fancy driveway and elevators in our garage and professional landscaping and swimming pools and crown molding...Yada Yada Yada. 100k to look at a pond? Crazy. Yet people complain about the cost here. It's the SALESPERSON fault? Are you kidding me?
You should have done your research. Budget in these increases. Maybe bought a no or lower bond house...
We absolutely LOVE the villages..we are having a blast here. It's so beautiful and everyone is incredibly nice. It's worth every penny...

[Desiderata]

I'm there enough to know how well it's run. But my warning to people buying new, first check out the bond and the payment and the interest, that they do not mention. They tell you there is a bond paid over 30 years. They never mention the interest and you have to go onto the CDD website to find payment info.

Second, the maintenance fee that they never mentioned at all. I'm sure it's buried in the closing docs somewhere. Even then, I'm perfectly fine with the fee that I signed up for because I did my research. I also expect increases because maintenance costs obviously increase. But to raise the fee by $330 (56%) after only 1 year seems absurd to me.
I agree with you that the maintenance fee was hidden and never mentioned to me when I purchased a home here, not that it would have stopped me from buying. The Realtor didn’t even mention the bond until we were doing paperwork to purchase the home.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

I'm there enough to know how well it's run. But my warning to people buying new, first check out the bond and the payment and the interest, that they do not mention. They tell you there is a bond paid over 30 years. They never mention the interest and you have to go onto the CDD website to find payment info.

Second, the maintenance fee that they never mentioned at all. I'm sure it's buried in the closing docs somewhere. Even then, I'm perfectly fine with the fee that I signed up for because I did my research. I also expect increases because maintenance costs obviously increase. But to raise the fee by $330 (56%) after only 1 year seems absurd to me.

I’m curious to know how closely the buyer studied the closing costs estimate that is required to be issued to the buyer. Ours 20 years ago had the information on it. When we’ve had family members purchase here, my spouse went over the paperwork with them.

[asianthree]

Maybe things have changed, but when we first came to TV in 2007, we received a sheet of basic costs to run a home, including maintenance fees, ballpark taxes, cable, electricity, lawn, insurance, water, amenity fee. Below was the mention of bond, plus other items.

2010, same sheet, but obviously different, amounts.

2012, different VLS person, because ours got bumped up to management, not a fan, but did answer questions on bond, but had to press harder for interest.

We choose to find a different VLS agent for third, house, who was very up front on balance of bond, maintenance fees, taxes and all things, even though we had experience owning houses for 4 years.

Even on this site many threads have mentioned maintenance fees, fire, schools, bonds, and %. Plus the complaints of how high the bond is from years ago, or no bond in certain areas, and the difference in maintenance and taxes in different counties

[frayedends]

I’m curious to know how closely the buyer studied the closing costs estimate that is required to be issued to the buyer. Ours 20 years ago had the information on it. When we’ve had family members purchase here, my spouse went over the paperwork with them.

If this is directed to me (I assume) then you really really should read the thread. I've only said like 6 times now that I knew the costs when I bought. I just found this increase excessive. The only thing I mentioned is they aren't very forthcoming about it when selling the home. Yes, of course everyone should study the docs up front.

[frayedends]

Maybe things have changed, but when we first came to TV in 2007, we received a sheet of basic costs to run a home, including maintenance fees, ballpark taxes, cable, electricity, lawn, insurance, water, amenity fee. Below was the mention of bond, plus other items.

2010, same sheet, but obviously different, amounts.

2012, different VLS person, because ours got bumped up to management, not a fan, but did answer questions on bond, but had to press harder for interest.

We choose to find a different VLS agent for third, house, who was very up front on balance of bond, maintenance fees, taxes and all things, even though we had experience owning houses for 4 years.

Even on this site many threads have mentioned maintenance fees, fire, schools, bonds, and %.


The thread is about the excessive increase in maintenance. I should not have mentioned the costs associated with buying.

[asianthree]

The thread is about the excessive increase in maintenance. I should not have mentioned the costs associated with buying.

Ya since your original post was copied in multiple post, that never get removed, you will still get responses from original thread.

[frayedends]

I've requested the moderators delete this thread. My mistake for mentioning how fees are disclosed when purchasing. But no matter how much I clarify people seem to want to tell me that I didn't do my due diligence when buying.

I edited my post to clarify and repeatedly posted that it was only about the fee increase. But people won't let it go. Good grief. I don't know if they'll delete it. Sorry I even posted it.

[asianthree]

I've requested the moderators delete this thread. My mistake for mentioning how fees are disclosed when purchasing. But no matter how much I clarify people seem to want to tell me that I didn't do my due diligence when buying.

I edited my post to clarify and repeatedly posted that it was only about the fee increase. But people won't let it go. Good grief. I don't know if they'll delete it. Sorry I even posted it.

I don’t think most posters are pointing out you didn’t due diligence. But they experienced pretty much full disclosures in early years from their VLS.
I have found not all VLS, along with MLS, can and will skip the idea that Maintenance fees exist, or that along with amenity fees can and probably will change each year. It’s still a good thread, that’s how new potential residents learn.