4 guys going door to door soliciting window washing

[Chellybean]

4 guy going house to house soliciting window washing. One guy walking door to door, knocking on the frame of the door and didn't ring my door bell camera, hmmmm.
My neighbors hired them 3 guys in a white Chevy I think cruze or Malibu pulls up 3 guys get out of the car with a ladder and window cleaning bottles and start cleaning windows on my neighbors property. Hmmmm similar scam happened in my home town 10 years ago, peekaboo in the windows to see if there is anything good to steal,then send there buddies over to steal. I thought there was no soliciting in the villages. I'm sure do gooders will have a problem with my post as usual. Beware!!!

[ThirdOfFive]

4 guy going house to house soliciting window washing. One guy walking door to door, knocking on the frame of the door and didn't ring my door bell camera, hmmmm.
My neighbors hired them 3 guys in a white Chevy I think cruze or Malibu pulls up 3 guys get out of the car with a ladder and window cleaning bottles and start cleaning windows on my neighbors property. Hmmmm similar scam happened in my home town 10 years ago, peekaboo in the windows to see if there is anything good to steal,then send there buddies over to steal. I thought there was no soliciting in the villages. I'm sure do gooders will have a problem with my post as usual. Beware!!!
Beware is right! Hiring them gives them carte blanche to check out your house, what is inside, any obvious security cameras you might have, window alarms, etc. etc.

On the other hand it might be just some guys out to make an honest (sort of) buck. About three years I had a similar thing happen. I hadn't been here too long, maybe six months, and was out mowing my lawn. Older guy in an SUV pulling a trailer with various and sundry lawn maintenance tools in back pulls up, and asked me if I wanted my lawn mowed. As I was already about 1/4 done mowing I declined. He then asked if he could trim my hedge and bushes. It was a hot day and I wasn't looking forward to doing them myself so I asked the price. $25.00. I said sure, and continued mowing while he trimmed. Once done I paid him $25 cash, he thanked me, hopped back into his SUV and left. Haven't seen him since.

He did however ask the lady on our block a few doors down, and I did see him mowing her lawn.

[Chellybean]

Yes it could be legitimate but mowing the lawn and playing peekaboo in my windows are two different things. I have no problem cleaning my own windows. Today's environment WITH all these illegals come across the border I don't trust anything. JMHO

[Velvet]

Yes, I believe there is no soliciting. They are trespassing.

[Stu from NYC]

I would have politely, at least the first time, sent them on their way

[Velvet]

So, you want to warn people about a possible scam, and then choose to hurl an insult toward us. Nice, really nice.

BTW - How many times does it have to be pointed out that the no soliciting 'rule' is unenforceable?

Hmm, I don’t seem to have a problem enforcing it. I just remind them that this type of activity is unwelcome in TV.

[CarlR33]

Call da law? Better yet, call one of those village patrol cars?

[Chellybean]

So, you want to warn people about a possible scam, and then choose to hurl an insult toward us. Nice, really nice.

BTW - How many times does it have to be pointed out that the no soliciting 'rule' is unenforceable?

That's how people, especially the elderly get scammed. I guess I'm not nice huh?

[Bill14564]

Yes, I believe there is no soliciting. They are trespassing.

How are they trespassing if they are traveling on public roads and leaving private property when asked?

[Chellybean]

How are they trespassing if they are traveling on public roads and leaving private property when asked?

Statue 810.09
It's all there to read, once they leave public property, Florida has one of the best trespassing laws in the country.
Under the law you don't even have to be on the property to be trespassed warning to be submitted by law enforcement, if you come back you get a free Uber ride by law enforcement lol

[Bill14564]

Statue 810.09
It's all there to read, once they leave public property, Florida has one of the best trespassing laws in the country.
Under the law you don't even have to be on the property to be trespassed warning to be submitted by law enforcement, if you come back you get a free Uber ride by law enforcement lol

Exactly. If they leave private property when asked they are not trespassing.

[Chellybean]

Exactly. If they leave private property when asked they are not trespassing.

You need to read the law you are incorrect my friend. If they are trespassed off with a written warning by law enforcement and come back and enter the property it's considered trespassing even if you asked them to leave and they do leave. You can believe what you want my friend! They can be arrested at that point!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Statue 810.09
It's all there to read, once they leave public property, Florida has one of the best trespassing laws in the country.
Under the law you don't even have to be on the property to be trespassed warning to be submitted by law enforcement, if you come back you get a free Uber ride by law enforcement lol

First of all, it's a statute, not a statue.

Second, different communities have different regulations regarding trespassing, the Florida statute only covers a "generic" situation.

Third, if they come onto your property uninvited, and you have to ask them to leave, then they have already trespassed, by coming onto your property uninvited. That IS trespassing. That's the very definition. Going where you aren't invited. I shouldn't have to tell a trespasser to get off my property, in order to have the encounter qualify as a trespass. The fact that they got to my door is qualification enough.

Florida is actually LAX on the definition of trespass, and requires the owner to object after the fact. That protects the trespasser, not the homeowner.

[Bill14564]

You need to read the law you are incorrect my friend. If they are trespassed off with a written warning by law enforcement and come back and enter the property it's considered trespassing even if you asked them to leave and they do leave. You can believe what you want my friend!

Was there a written warning by law enforcement? I missed any mention of that in any post, including yours.

Call 911 if you feel strongly about it. Tell them someone came on your property then left when you asked them to and now you want them arrested for trespassing.

[retiredguy123]

First of all, it's a statute, not a statue.

Second, different communities have different regulations regarding trespassing, the Florida statute only covers a "generic" situation.

Third, if they come onto your property uninvited, and you have to ask them to leave, then they have already trespassed, by coming onto your property uninvited. That IS trespassing. That's the very definition. Going where you aren't invited. I shouldn't have to tell a trespasser to get off my property, in order to have the encounter qualify as a trespass. The fact that they got to my door is qualification enough.

Florida is actually LAX on the definition of trespass, and requires the owner to object after the fact. That protects the trespasser, not the homeowner.
I was at the Havana CC once and a guy was there using an electrical outlet on the breezeway. A police car showed up, and he and the manager filled out a form which the policeman gave to the guy. He said it was a trespassing notice and that, if he returned again, he would be arrested. So, it could be that you need a written notice to actually enforce the trespass law.

[Chellybean]

First of all, it's a statute, not a statue.

Second, different communities have different regulations regarding trespassing, the Florida statute only covers a "generic" situation.

Third, if they come onto your property uninvited, and you have to ask them to leave, then they have already trespassed, by coming onto your property uninvited. That IS trespassing. That's the very definition. Going where you aren't invited. I shouldn't have to tell a trespasser to get off my property, in order to have the encounter qualify as a trespass. The fact that they got to my door is qualification enough.

Florida is actually LAX on the definition of trespass, and requires the owner to object after the fact. That protects the trespasser, not the homeowner.

In regards to the spelling I stand corrected thank you for pointing that out I will check my autocorrect. Furthermore I agree with a great part of your post regarding trespassing it's painted with a broad brush. However though it gets in depth in criminal trespassing and case law that's where the division is. I seem to think Florida has great trespassing laws but you seem to have a different opinion that's why this is America my friend. I'm thankful for Florida trespassing laws under 8:10 have a good day

[Chellybean]

I was at the Havana CC once and a guy was there using an electrical outlet on the breezeway. A police car showed up, and he and the manager filled out a form which the policeman gave to the guy. He said it was a trespassing notice and that, if he returned again, he would be arrested. So, it could be that you need a written notice to actually enforce the trespass law.

Yes you are correct and in my post that's what they give you, it's called a trespass warning stay off the property, or the next time you will be arrested.

[Velvet]

How are they trespassing if they are traveling on public roads and leaving private property when asked?

What about harassment? They are disturbing my peace, by coming up to my door. When did my walkway become public property? The survey of my property indicates it belongs to me.

[Bill14564]

What about harassment? They are disturbing my peace, by coming up to my door. When did my walkway become public property? The survey of my property indicates it belongs to me.

Feel free to try that argument when you call the sheriff.

I suspect you will find that criminal harassment requires a refusal to cease and desist the same way that criminal trespassing requires a refusal to leave.

[retiredguy123]

What about harassment? They are disturbing my peace, by coming up to my door. When did my walkway become public property? The survey of my property indicates it belongs to me.
Florida law (501.022) allows people to perform door-to-door solicitation as long as they have a home solicitation permit. So, they are allowed to cross your property and come to your door.

"Pursuant to Chapter 501, Florida Statutes, individuals who engage in certain door-to-door solicitation activities that sell, lease, or rent consumer goods or services with a purchase price in excess of $25.00 are required to obtain a Home Solicitation Sales Permit."

[BrianL99]

...

Second, different communities have different regulations regarding trespassing, the Florida statute only covers a "generic" situation.

Third, if they come onto your property uninvited, and you have to ask them to leave, then they have already trespassed, by coming onto your property uninvited. That IS trespassing. That's the very definition. Going where you aren't invited. I shouldn't have to tell a trespasser to get off my property, in order to have the encounter qualify as a trespass. The fact that they got to my door is qualification enough.

Florida is actually LAX on the definition of trespass, and requires the owner to object after the fact. That protects the trespasser, not the homeowner.

Not even close to the facts.


So, you want to warn people about a possible scam, and then choose to hurl an insult toward us. Nice, really nice.

BTW - How many times does it have to be pointed out that the no soliciting 'rule' is unenforceable?


Yes, I believe there is no soliciting. They are trespassing.


The Villages doesn't have a rule against "Soliciting". Even if they did, the only place it would be enforceable, is in the neighborhoods of Villas where the "roads"/driveways are not public.


Here is just about all you need to know about who can and can't solicit and who needs a permit to do it.


Home Solicitation Permit | Sumter County Clerk of Courts (https://www.sumterclerk.com/home-solicitation-sales-permit)

[Chellybean]

Florida law (501.022) allows people to perform door-to-door solicitation as long as they have a home solicitation permit. So, they are allowed to cross your property and come to your door.

"Pursuant to Chapter 501, Florida Statutes, individuals who engage in certain door-to-door solicitation activities that sell, lease, or rent consumer goods or services with a purchase price in excess of $25.00 are required to obtain a Home Solicitation Sales Permit."

Sorry I strongly disagree, 8:10 trumps 501 and they can be trespassed off warnings also and if they come back they get a Uber ride to the popoo.....

[retiredguy123]

Sorry I strongly disagree, 8:10 trumps 501 and they can be trespassed off warnings also and if they come back they get a Uber ride to the popoo.....
I don't think we disagree. If a person shows up at your door with a permit, they are not violating the law. But, if you warn them to leave and to not come back, then they will violate the law if they return. But, the permit allows them to show up at least one time.

[Bill14564]

Sorry I strongly disagree, 8:10 trumps 501 and they can be trespassed off warnings also and if they come back they get a Uber ride to the popoo.....

IF they refuse to leave THEN they MIGHT get a warning.
IF they get a warning AND they return THEN there MIGHT be further repercussions.
It is also true that IF they did donuts on your lawn they could be charged with vandalism.

HOWEVER, NONE of those things happened. From what you wrote, they operated under 501 while not violating 810.

[Topspinmo]

I would imagine Public has access to front doors (IMO the front door only), unless you have no trespassing sign in clear view

[Girlcopper]

Statue 810.09
It's all there to read, once they leave public property, Florida has one of the best trespassing laws in the country.
Under the law you don't even have to be on the property to be trespassed warning to be submitted by law enforcement, if you come back you get a free Uber ride by law enforcement lol
Wrong. Read the law again and understand it right

[ThirdOfFive]

Wow!!

I had no idea that so many lawyers live in The Villages.

[jcreason5616]

Guide to Avoiding Door-to-Door Scams in 2023 (https://www.safehome.org/home-safety/door-to-door-scams-guide/)

[ribil]

Yes, I believe there is no soliciting. They are trespassing.

Wrong on both counts. They are not trespassing until they refuse to leave when asked.
Roads in the Villages are public roads and anyone can knock on your door.

[Djean1981]

No soliciting is not enforced. You must post a no soliciting sign.

[Margefrog]

I don't get the unnecessary do-gooders remark. In my opinion, don't hire anyone who comes to your door without you calling them. That's how to stop that activity.

[ThirdOfFive]

I am trying to delete the post I made, it seems you can't so I'm trying to make it go away by editing it.
You can't delete posts. You can however delete the entire message and replace it with three front slashes ///

[retiredguy123]

I am trying to delete the post I made, it seems you can't so I'm trying to make it go away by editing it.
Many people who want to delete a post will delete all content and then add ///. All posts must have at least 3 characters. The entire post cannot be deleted.

[Joe C.]

It's amazing how a post on window washers gets hijacked to trespass arguments.

People who fall prey to scams end up wondering how they allowed themselves to be scammed, and usually realize that lack of awareness was at the forefront.

Allowing strangers access to your home is detrimental to your personal security.

Situational awareness is something that needs to be practiced at all times.
Learn to think like a criminal ..... Look for escape routes ..... backdoors and fire exits.

You've worked hard for what you have. Don't let it get taken because you were negligent.

[Chellybean]

It's amazing how a post on window washers gets hijacked to trespass arguments.

People who fall prey to scams end up wondering how they allowed themselves to be scammed, and usually realize that lack of awareness was at the forefront.

Allowing strangers access to your home is detrimental to your personal security.

Situational awareness is something that needs to be practiced at all times.
Learn to think like a criminal ..... Look for escape routes ..... backdoors and fire exits.

You've worked hard for what you have. Don't let it get taken because you didn't were negligent.

Exactly! Thank you for the reasonable post. That's all i was trying to do was warn people, but i had the Popcorn ready for the others LOL

[CybrSage]

Guide to Avoiding Door-to-Door Scams in 2023 (https://www.safehome.org/home-safety/door-to-door-scams-guide/)

Are you trying to scam me? It is 2024 do it is no longer valid

(sarcasm)

[Velvet]

Florida law (501.022) allows people to perform door-to-door solicitation as long as they have a home solicitation permit. So, they are allowed to cross your property and come to your door.

"Pursuant to Chapter 501, Florida Statutes, individuals who engage in certain door-to-door solicitation activities that sell, lease, or rent consumer goods or services with a purchase price in excess of $25.00 are required to obtain a Home Solicitation Sales Permit."

Thank you I didn’t know that. Nevertheless, they are a nuisance! It’s like advertisement, we pay extra for streaming to get no advertisement.

[Glowing Horizon]

I was at the Havana CC once and a guy was there using an electrical outlet on the breezeway. A police car showed up, and he and the manager filled out a form which the policeman gave to the guy. He said it was a trespassing notice and that, if he returned again, he would be arrested. So, it could be that you need a written notice to actually enforce the trespass law.
Using an electrical outlet without permission is theft of electricity. Trespassing was a nicer way to tell him to leave & not return IMO

[Glowing Horizon]

It's amazing how a post on window washers gets hijacked to trespass arguments.

People who fall prey to scams end up wondering how they allowed themselves to be scammed, and usually realize that lack of awareness was at the forefront.

Allowing strangers access to your home is detrimental to your personal security.

Situational awareness is something that needs to be practiced at all times.
Learn to think like a criminal ..... Look for escape routes ..... backdoors and fire exits.

You've worked hard for what you have. Don't let it get taken because you didn't were negligent.
People who wander around looking for work are showing you they are DESPERATE, right up front. So if you assume they may do DESPERATE things—that is logical—not judgmental.

[Chellybean]

People who wander around looking for work are showing you they are DESPERATE, right up front. So if you assume they may do DESPERATE things—that is logical—not judgmental.

So true finally someone that gets it!!!!! Thank you

[retiredguy123]

Using an electrical outlet without permission is theft of electricity. Trespassing was a nicer way to tell him to leave & not return IMO
Possibly, but I really don't think the manager cared about the electricity. He just didn't want the guy hanging around, and didn't want to confront him. I don't think a business needs any specific reason to enforce the trespassing law.

[gorillarick]

How are they trespassing if they are traveling on public roads and leaving private property when asked?
aye aye yi
If asked to leave a no trespassing area, and they leave when asked, they are not trespassing?
What kind of logic is that ?

When a solicitor comes to my door, I ask for their card, ask them why I would do business with people that break our rules?
Tell them I will report, and take a picture of them.
At least they move to the next street.

This is a gated community. We are not getting all the security we're paying for.

[Bill14564]

aye aye yi
If asked to leave a no trespassing area, and they leave when asked, they are not trespassing?
What kind of logic is that ?

When a solicitor comes to my door, I ask for their card, ask them why I would do business with people that break our rules?
Tell them I will report, and take a picture of them.
At least they move to the next street.

This is a gated community. We are not getting all the security we're paying for.

You are very confused. Suggest you read some of the threads about this being a gated community, no solicitation, and criminal trespassing. Knowledge is a wonderful thing

[Aces4]

People who wander around looking for work are showing you they are DESPERATE, right up front. So if you assume they may do DESPERATE things—that is logical—not judgmental.


That's correct. If there were a litmus test available on the spot, we could all work within the results. But there isn't and The Villages aged population is a target for certain crimes with easy money. If legitimate laborers need work, they should get the required permit and there should be a law where the permit must be provided to potential customers before requesting any work.

I think the cautionary post from the OP was a good idea.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Seems people aren't understanding what "trespassing" means, and are interpreting a regulation without checking the legal definition of the word first. So - Chapter 810, Section 09 of the Florida Statutes:

810.09 Trespass on property other than structure or conveyance.—
(1)(a) A person who, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters upon or remains in any property other than a structure or conveyance:
1. As to which notice against entering or remaining is given, either by actual communication to the offender or by posting, fencing, or cultivation as described in s. 810.011; or
2. If the property is the unenclosed curtilage of a dwelling and the offender enters or remains with the intent to commit an offense thereon, other than the offense of trespass,
commits the offense of trespass on property other than a structure or conveyance.

This is what Florida law defines as trespassing on the property of someone's home, who hasn't yet entered the dwelling itself yet (there's a different trespassing law for entering structures and dwellings, this isn't that regulation).

The bolded part "willfully enters upon OR remains" - means the person is trespassing BEFORE anyone tells them to get lost. They are trespassing because they came onto the property in the first place.

The underlined part, refers to the land immediately surrounding the structure/dwelling. So if someone owned a few acres of wooded land and crossed into the woods behind someone's house, and didn't get there by entering the yardage immediately surrounding the house (if they came in from next door or the block behind them, for example), then this law would NOT apply.

But walking up to someone's front door, if you are uninvited, unauthorized, and don't have a license to do so? That is - legally - according to Florida Statute quoted above - trespassing.

"Being trespassed" is a term that refers to the consequence of trespassing, if the authorized agent/owner of the property complains about it to the police. It means you receive an official warning. You get a warning because you have already broken the law, and a warning is the first step in the process.

[Bill14564]

Seems people aren't understanding what "trespassing" means, and are interpreting a regulation without checking the legal definition of the word first. So - Chapter 810, Section 09 of the Florida Statutes:



This is what Florida law defines as trespassing on the property of someone's home, who hasn't yet entered the dwelling itself yet (there's a different trespassing law for entering structures and dwellings, this isn't that regulation).

The bolded part "willfully enters upon OR remains" - means the person is trespassing BEFORE anyone tells them to get lost. They are trespassing because they came onto the property in the first place.

The underlined part, refers to the land immediately surrounding the structure/dwelling. So if someone owned a few acres of wooded land and crossed into the woods behind someone's house, and didn't get there by entering the yardage immediately surrounding the house (if they came in from next door or the block behind them, for example), then this law would NOT apply.

But walking up to someone's front door, if you are uninvited, unauthorized, and don't have a license to do so? That is - legally - according to Florida Statute quoted above - trespassing.

"Being trespassed" is a term that refers to the consequence of trespassing, if the authorized agent/owner of the property complains about it to the police. It means you receive an official warning. You get a warning because you have already broken the law, and a warning is the first step in the process.

You quote it, underline it, but fail to read it. Note the conditions under both 1. and 2. that exist just beyond what you have highlighted. Those conditions are very significant.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You quote it, underline it, but fail to read it. Note the conditions under both 1. and 2. that exist just beyond what you have highlighted. Those conditions are very significant.

I've read it, I understand it. Someone who shows up trying to offer you a service - who you didn't call, invite, or otherwise authorize to show up - who doesn't have a license to show up...

is breaking the law. He has to be licensed. Not being licensed is a different law, not a trespassing law. So he is breaking the law by not being licensed to show up. That makes his presence - legally - trespassing.

[Bill14564]

I've read it, I understand it. Someone who shows up trying to offer you a service - who you didn't call, invite, or otherwise authorize to show up - who doesn't have a license to show up...

is breaking the law. He has to be licensed. Not being licensed is a different law, not a trespassing law. So he is breaking the law by not being licensed to show up. That makes his presence - legally - trespassing.

Maybe this will make it easier
1. As to which notice against entering or remaining is given, either by actual communication to the offender or by posting, fencing, or cultivation as described in s. 810.011

Was there notice given against entering or remaining? Did the individual remain after notice was given? If not, then they are not violating the statute for trespassing.

As for licensing, did they have a license? Did anyone ask? Or, did a resident see some of "those" people in the area and immediately assume they were criminals and illegals?

Cautioning against a potential scam is great. Accusing others of being criminals based on, well, absolutely nothing is not so great.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

As to which notice against entering or remaining is given, either by actual communication to the offender or by posting, fencing, or cultivation as described in s. 810.011; [or
2. If the property is the unenclosed curtilage of a dwelling and the offender enters or remains with the intent to commit an offense thereon, other than the offense of trespass,
commits the offense of trespass on property other than a structure or conveyance.

See that bolded underlined word? That's the word OR. It, like the word trespass, has a legal definition.

If you call the police when someone comes to your door, and you DO NOT ENGAGE with the person at your door, and the police show up, and they ask that person if they have a license to solicit - and that person does not - then they have ALREADY committed the crime of trespass. The "intent to commit a crime" is "soliciting without a license." That's why they showed up at your door. Two things happened here. First, they intended to solicit without a license. Then, they came to your house with that intent to commit that crime, which makes them illegal trespassers.

I mean jeez louise it's such a simple concept, think of them as illegals crossing the border, and it should make perfect sense.

[Bill14564]

See that bolded underlined word? That's the word OR. It, like the word trespass, has a legal definition.

If you call the police when someone comes to your door, and you DO NOT ENGAGE with the person at your door, and the police show up, and they ask that person if they have a license to solicit - and that person does not - then they have ALREADY committed the crime of trespass. The "intent to commit a crime" is "soliciting without a license." That's why they showed up at your door. Two things happened here. First, they intended to solicit without a license. Then, they came to your house with that intent to commit that crime, which makes them illegal trespassers.

I mean jeez louise it's such a simple concept, think of them as illegals crossing the border, and it should make perfect sense.

It is simple but you just aren’t getting it. That’s okay, believe whatever you want to believe. If you feel strongly enough about it then call the sheriff - I’m sure they will rush out to help you answer the door and tell someone you aren’t interested… if they haven’t already moved on.