Bermuda grass control in Zoysia and St. Augustine lawns

[mntlblok]

It looks like there is a relatively new combination of herbicides available that is capable of controlling the Bermudagrass that mixes in with the Zoysia and St. Augustine lawns of the types here in The Villages. It's a combination of stuff called Fusilade II and Recognition.

My pest control/lawn guy doesn't offer it. The guru on YouTube (in the Tampa area) who's been documenting his use of it says the combination has been hard to come by, but that it should eventually become available at SiteOne Landscape Supply. There are two such stores located pretty close to each other over in Leesburg. Probably an interesting story behind that.

Anyway, curious to know if anybody has tried this combo or even been successful in finding the chemicals locally. I had looked into something similar a while back based on a different YouTube guru in NC, but it seemed that those herbicides couldn't be shipped to Florida - or something like that.

Comments on YT suggest that the volumes available for purchase might be more suitable as a "shared" purchase by several lawn fanatics.

[mntlblok]

Recognition herbicide: A powerful, flexible tool for St. Augustinegrass and zoysiagrass lawns | GreenCast | Syngenta (https://www.greencastonline.com/techarticle.aspx?gcaid=225037)

The metcamifen folks.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Since all three are "approved" lawn cover types in The Villages, I'd just embrace the new growth and start a lawn-fashion trend. From a distance, no one can tell which kind you have growing on it anyway.

[Pondboy]

Do you know what type of St Augustine grass you have? If you have the Scott’s ProVista, it’s glyphosate tolerant and you can spray/kill the Bermuda (and weeds) without harming the St Aug. There’s lots of info on the web about it. Make sure to not use Round Up, they moved away from Glyphosate. So try Amazon or Tractor supply for the Glyphosate.

[mntlblok]

Do you know what type of St Augustine grass you have? If you have the Scott’s ProVista, it’s glyphosate tolerant and you can spray/kill the Bermuda (and weeds) without harming the St Aug. There’s lots of info on the web about it. Make sure to not use Round Up, they moved away from Glyphosate. So try Amazon or Tractor supply for the Glyphosate.

Good info. But, I have Empire (pretty certain that's the "brand") Zoysia, not St. Augustine. I *have* been seeing some St. Augustine lawns around that look much thicker and darker green than I've ever seen anywhere else. So, if this zoysia experiment fails. . .

[mntlblok]

Since all three are "approved" lawn cover types in The Villages, I'd just embrace the new growth and start a lawn-fashion trend. From a distance, no one can tell which kind you have growing on it anyway.
And a most logical embracement it would be. However, this zoysia in my front lawn areas here that *don't* have significant Bermuda infestation is just *so* wonderful that I must have it - if I can make it work without *too* much trouble. If you felt this stuff with your bare feet. . .

[metoo21]

Good info. But, I have Empire (pretty certain that's the "brand") Zoysia, not St. Augustine. I *have* been seeing some St. Augustine lawns around that look much thicker and darker green than I've ever seen anywhere else. So, if this zoysia experiment fails. . .

Be sure to check the rules in your district. Our district only allows whatever was originally planted so you can't make a change. Don't know if ARC would overrule and approve the change or not.

[mntlblok]

Be sure to check the rules in your district. Our district only allows whatever was originally planted so you can't make a change. Don't know if ARC would overrule and approve the change or not.

Got it. Thanks.

[biggamefish1]

Make sure it isn't torpedo grass. if it is don't let it get into your planters! Tractor supply has a product by Image you can spray on your grass, and it is safe on Zosia.

[mntlblok]

Make sure it isn't torpedo grass. if it is don't let it get into your planters! Tractor supply has a product by Image you can spray on your grass, and it is safe on Zosia.
Thanks. Been learning about torpedo, too. Nasty stuff, apparently.

Checked out the products I mentioned on the OneSite website and see that both are currently available. However, they look to be "regulated", so are apparently only sold to "licensed professionals". Emailed them about it. Guess I'll be researching that further, but did find this page: https://discover.pbcgov.org/coextension/horticulture/pdf/commercial/License.pdf Guess I ought to contact Sumter County. Found this: Sumter County - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences - UF/IFAS (https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/sumter/)

sumter@ifas.ufl.edu
352-569-6862
7620 SR 471 Suite 2
Bushnell, Florida 33513-8716

Let's see what an email to them yields.

[lawgolfer]

It looks like there is a relatively new combination of herbicides available that is capable of controlling the Bermudagrass that mixes in with the Zoysia and St. Augustine lawns of the types here in The Villages. It's a combination of stuff called Fusilade II and Recognition.

My pest control/lawn guy doesn't offer it. The guru on YouTube (in the Tampa area) who's been documenting his use of it says the combination has been hard to come by, but that it should eventually become available at SiteOne Landscape Supply. There are two such stores located pretty close to each other over in Leesburg. Probably an interesting story behind that.

Anyway, curious to know if anybody has tried this combo or even been successful in finding the chemicals locally. I had looked into something similar a while back based on a different YouTube guru in NC, but it seemed that those herbicides couldn't be shipped to Florida - or something like that.

Comments on YT suggest that the volumes available for purchase might be more suitable as a "shared" purchase by several lawn fanatics.

Interesting.

I'm fighting an invasion of Bermuda into my 20 yr old St. Augustine. Just last week, I called one of the largest on-line suppliers of lawn chemicals and was told there was no product available to control Bermuda that will not damage St. Augustine.

The next day, our landscaper sprayed four areas of St. Augustine with the worst invasion of Bermuda in preparation for removing the sod and replacing it with new St. Augustine, all at significant expense.

I hope that this thread continues and people report on their success/failure to control Bermuda grass.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Bermuda grass is used on golf courses, and of course the seeds fly in with the wind.
And yes, I got an infestation of torpedo grass, either I just call it all grass, or I spend lots of money because of mother nature and golf.

So i am choosing to spend time NOT using chemicals and am hand weeding the torpedo and inserting st augustine plugs in areas with lots of torpedo grass. As far as the bermuda, pfft, i let it grow because I am not spending thousands living in a golfing community and worrying about different grasses flying in from golf course creation.

[Michigan Farmer]

I stand corrected , Recognition mixed with Fusilate II seems to be the answer to our Wild Bermuda grass issue.

[Switter]

I have Bermuda growing in a corner of my yard. I had looked at recognition too but I thought I read something about the Saint Augustine grass having to be a certain type. I also read you have to be very careful to apply the correct amount.

I think I am just going to do as another poster said, spot treat the worst areas and replace it with Saint Augustine plugs hoping it crowds it out. I wish it wasn't in my front yard though. When I spot treat it, I'll have to let it sit for up to four weeks before I plant the saint Augustine so I'll have dead spots in my front yard for a time.

[nn0wheremann]

Recognition herbicide: A powerful, flexible tool for St. Augustinegrass and zoysiagrass lawns | GreenCast | Syngenta (https://www.greencastonline.com/techarticle.aspx?gcaid=225037)

The metcamifen folks.
Not all St Augustine is created equal. Some herbicides labled safe for St Augustine are also labled unsafe for the variety most commonly used here, called Flortam. It’s a mess.

[Miboater]

You can get Recognition along with Fusilade II online at domyown.com and it appears to be able to ship to Florida. Together it costs a little over $300 but I think it will last a while. I am considering getting this once I start doing my own lawn later this fall.

[NoMoSno]

https://www.thelawnforum.com/threads/bermuda-control-in-zoysia-and-st-augustine-with-fusilade-recognition-safener.40253/?post_id=527989#post-527989

[mntlblok]

Recognition seems to be a growth inhibiter and makes no claim to control Wild Bermuda grass and only suppression of Torpedo Grass which is very similar to Wild Bermuda. Fusilate II is not labeled for residential lawns from what I can tell. Having said that I've been using it for several years and so you know it is not a one and done application. You'll get suppression and eventually control by applying it every 21 to 30 days for two to three years while not in dormancy and adding a surfactant to it. I like to use Mentholated Seed Oil.

Recognition herbicide: A powerful, flexible tool for St. Augustinegrass and zoysiagrass lawns | GreenCast | Syngenta (https://www.greencastonline.com/techarticle.aspx?gcaid=225037) They point out that the Recognition includes a "safener" ingredient, which I'm assuming is what allows this new combo to be successful for the purpose.

I fully expect the wild Bermuda to continue to show back up, but if I can regularly "control" it, then I'd be a happy camper.

I suspect that these chemicals being "regulated" is likely related to their maybe not being labeled for residential lawns. All new stuff for me, but I did get a response from my SiteOne email. Sez I have to go to the store to make my inquiry. :-) The wifey has the car today, so maybe tomorrow - or maybe I'll hear back soon from the Sumter extension folks.

BTW, the YouTube guy *did* add a surfactant to his tank mix. Let me see if I can find that video again. Found it. It also answers some questions that others have raised. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3uh2C8ND_0

Good info. Thanks. Definitely sounds like you know your stuff. I shall attempt to keep learning.

[NoMoSno]

https://www.thelawnforum.com/threads/bermuda-control-in-zoysia-and-st-augustine-with-fusilade-recognition-safener.40253/?post_id=527989#post-527989
Good info. Thanks. Definitely sounds like you know your stuff. I shall attempt to keep learning.[/QUOTE]

Read the link I posted.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And a most logical embracement it would be. However, this zoysia in my front lawn areas here that *don't* have significant Bermuda infestation is just *so* wonderful that I must have it - if I can make it work without *too* much trouble. If you felt this stuff with your bare feet. . .

We have mostly St. Augustine, and big patches of fungus that killed it all, because "lawns" really don't belong in Florida at all. This climate just outright rejects them, and forces people to spend a lot of money maintaining something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

So once in awhile I dig up all the dead patches and let WHATEVER grows, grow in. And then we mow it when it and the rest of the lawn needs to be mowed. It's all green, looks like every other green part of our lawn. Meanwhile, the birds, spiders, snakes, squirrels, beetles, bees, wasps, butterflies, and and other creepy crawlies and flying things love our lawn, which is how it should be. I don't live on my lawn. These critters do. It's their home. I'm happy that their home is habitable for them.

[JRcorvette]

As long as it’s Green I don’t care what it is!

[mntlblok]

https://www.thelawnforum.com/threads/bermuda-control-in-zoysia-and-st-augustine-with-fusilade-recognition-safener.40253/?post_id=527989#post-527989

Perfect! I actually found that forum this morning and read several related threads. Somehow missed this one. Thanks!

[mntlblok]

Not all St Augustine is created equal. Some herbicides labled safe for St Augustine are also labled unsafe for the variety most commonly used here, called Flortam. It’s a mess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3uh2C8ND_0 This guy used it on his two versions of St. Augustine - and it worked out *beautifully* on his Floritam. I believe he is in the Tampa area.

[Luckytwo]

I have been using this combination with reasonable success. I add a surfactant to the mix. I agree with previous post it is not one and done , but will need to be reapplied. The wild Bermuda is hard to kill due to deep stols underground. Additional, lawn care needed to promote thick healthy grass to strangle out weeds and Bermuda growth.
Pro tip. Dead spots must be removed completely before regrowth can occur. Instead of buying plugs. Use a donut cutter or a small shovel to cut out a round plug of grass from a nice area of your grass. Plant it in the bare area, cover it with soil and it will grow in. Fill the hole you cut out of with soil and the grass will grow back .
Water water water is the lifeblood of the grass here in the hot summer.

[mntlblok]

https://www.thelawnforum.com/threads/bermuda-control-in-zoysia-and-st-augustine-with-fusilade-recognition-safener.40253/?post_id=527989#post-527989
Good info. Thanks. Definitely sounds like you know your stuff. I shall attempt to keep learning.

Read the link I posted.[/QUOTE]
I got to it as fast as I could! :-)

[mntlblok]

I have been using this combination with reasonable success. I add a surfactant to the mix. I agree with previous post it is not one and done , but will need to be reapplied. The wild Bermuda is hard to kill due to deep stols underground. Additional, lawn care needed to promote thick healthy grass to strangle out weeds and Bermuda growth.
Pro tip. Dead spots must be removed completely before regrowth can occur. Instead of buying plugs. Use a donut cutter or a small shovel to cut out a round plug of grass from a nice area of your grass. Plant it in the bare area, cover it with soil and it will grow in. Fill the hole you cut out of with soil and the grass will grow back .
Water water water is the lifeblood of the grass here in the hot summer.

Sounds like I need to sit you down, buy you a drink, and pick your brain! When might you be available??

[mntlblok]

You can get Recognition along with Fusilade II online at domyown.com and it appears to be able to ship to Florida. Together it costs a little over $300 but I think it will last a while. I am considering getting this once I start doing my own lawn later this fall.

Checked out domyown.com and did indeed find that it is available for shipping to me from them. I also figured out that I could *call* SiteOne now that it is business hours, and did. :-) They will *also* sell both products to me. Interestingly, the cost for the Recognition at domyown.com is significantly higher than at SiteOne. However, the Fusilade II there is priced at about *half* the SiteOne price! Fascinating.

[mtlee024]

It looks like there is a relatively new combination of herbicides available that is capable of controlling the Bermudagrass that mixes in with the Zoysia and St. Augustine lawns of the types here in The Villages. It's a combination of stuff called Fusilade II and Recognition.

My pest control/lawn guy doesn't offer it. The guru on YouTube (in the Tampa area) who's been documenting his use of it says the combination has been hard to come by, but that it should eventually become available at SiteOne Landscape Supply. There are two such stores located pretty close to each other over in Leesburg. Probably an interesting story behind that.


Anyway, curious to know if anybody has tried this combo or even been successful in finding the chemicals locally. I had looked into something similar a while back based on a different YouTube guru in NC, but it seemed that those herbicides couldn't be shipped to Florida - or something like that.

Comments on YT suggest that the volumes available for purchase might be more suitable as a "shared" purchase by several lawn fanatics.

Zoysia and St Augustine are both Burmuda grasses. Just thought you should know.

[mntlblok]

Bermuda grass is used on golf courses, and of course the seeds fly in with the wind.
And yes, I got an infestation of torpedo grass, either I just call it all grass, or I spend lots of money because of mother nature and golf.

So i am choosing to spend time NOT using chemicals and am hand weeding the torpedo and inserting st augustine plugs in areas with lots of torpedo grass. As far as the bermuda, pfft, i let it grow because I am not spending thousands living in a golfing community and worrying about different grasses flying in from golf course creation.

That's been kind of an interesting subject of research for me this summer. I even pulled off the interstate near Tifton and managed to find a big "test field" of turf grasses at ABAC - Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College. Seems it's somehow tied in with the UGA turf grass program.

I *think* I recall reading that the new and improved golf course Bermudas can't be grown from seed, but have to be plugged or sodded or sprigged. Guess these hybrids don't produce viable seed.

From what I'm reading online about invading lawn Bermuda it's apparently called Wild or Common Bermuda, and it doesn't tend to grow in nice and thick like the golf course varieties. Still learning.

If what I'm seeing online is true, it shouldn't be anything like thousands to get this Common stuff under some degree of control. Looks like fun, too. :-)

[mrf6969]

Originally Posted by mntlblok View Post
Good info. But, I have Empire (pretty certain that's the "brand") Zoysia, not St. Augustine. I *have* been seeing some St. Augustine lawns around that look much thicker and darker green than I've ever seen anywhere else. So, if this zoysia experiment fails. . .

Since you know you have Empire Zoysia the product that does work to kill the Bermuda and will not kill your Zoysia grass is called ORNAMEC, when used per directions of course.
I have put down 2 applications and it is doing the job. The bad news about Bermuda grass is that the roots can go down very deep, and this is why you have to be very patient with more than one application. PM me if you want to discuss.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by mntlblok View Post
Good info. But, I have Empire (pretty certain that's the "brand") Zoysia, not St. Augustine. I *have* been seeing some St. Augustine lawns around that look much thicker and darker green than I've ever seen anywhere else. So, if this zoysia experiment fails. . .

Since you know you have Empire Zoysia the product that does work to kill the Bermuda and will not kill your Zoysia grass is called ORNAMEC, when used per directions of course.
I have put down 2 applications and it is doing the job. The bad news about Bermuda grass is that the roots can go down very deep, and this is why you have to be very patient with more than one application. PM me if you want to discuss.

Very interesting! That nice Lawn Forum thread that was mentioned had one poster right at the end who said basically the same about the Ornamec and zoysia. Seems mighty odd that it hasn't become universally known by now. I shall PM you. Thanks!

I did google it but the one thing that came up was a guy who had tried it with a cool weather grass and got some worrisome results.

[Northwoods]

Originally I had Zoiza, but the person who mows my lawn has introduced St.Augustine grass into my lawn. I had nothing to do with it.

[mntlblok]

Very interesting! That nice Lawn Forum thread that was mentioned had one poster right at the end who said basically the same about the Ornamec and zoysia. Seems mighty odd that it hasn't become universally known by now. !


Aha! A bit further looking into it finds that the active ingredient for both Fusilade II and Ornamec is the same chemical - fluazifop-P-butyl.

It's now less clear to me how necessary that "safener" aspect of the Recognition product is. Wondering if that's maybe more important when using it on St. Augustine than on zoysia. Also wondering why the zoysia was apparently only used here in some sections of TV and for a limited period of time. Seems St. Augustine is the current standard for new construction.

[mntlblok]

Aha! A bit further looking into it finds that the active ingredient for both Fusilade II and Ornamec is the same chemical - fluazifop-P-butyl.

It's now less clear to me how necessary that "safener" aspect of the Recognition product is. Wondering if that's maybe more important when using it on St. Augustine than on zoysia.

According to GreenCast (https://www.greencastonline.com/products/fusilade-ii-turf-and-ornamental-herbicide/turf)

"It can also be used at reduced rates to safely remove bermudagrass from tall fescue and zoysiagrass."

Looks like that reduced rate is in the 10-20% range.

[HORNET]

As long as it is green!

[Fitnusbuf]

Make sure it isn't torpedo grass. if it is don't let it get into your planters! Tractor supply has a product by Image you can spray on your grass, and it is safe on Zosia.

Do you know what the herbicide is called and will it work in St. Augustine?