Grand Oaks Annexation Denied

[SaveTownofLadyLake]

The Town Commission Voted No for the annexation of Grand Oaks.

To the Nay-Sayers: You Can Fight For What You Believe In and have a win.

[jimbomaybe]

The Town Commission Voted No for the annexation of Grand Oaks.

To the Nay-Sayers: You Can Fight For What You Believe In and have a win.

Next step sweeten the deal

[tophcfa]

The Town Commission Voted No for the annexation of Grand Oaks.

To the Nay-Sayers: You Can Fight For What You Believe In and have a win.

I was glad to hear the news. I’m not anti development up to a reasonable point, but at some point things begin to get overbuilt, the infrastructure in the area gets stressed, and the area becomes too urbanized. In my opinion, the area in question would be better served by tapping the brakes on growth. Things like traffic and availability of quality health care are already being stressed and more development will only make things worse. Not surprisingly, the only Commissioner in favor of the annexation also happens to have ties to a large building supply company.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm curious to learn what all those neighbors think about the situation, if the owner of the property tells the bank to just keep it - and they abandon it to overgrowth and rodents.

They've already stated they have zero intention of maintaining it as an equestrian venue. They wanted to put in affordable housing for families. I doubt anyone else will want to buy it, especially any developer if they already know in advance that it ain't gonna happen.

[Topspinmo]

Why does some developers get special treatment and some don’t?

[Aces4]

I'm curious to learn what all those neighbors think about the situation, if the owner of the property tells the bank to just keep it - and they abandon it to overgrowth and rodents.

They've already stated they have zero intention of maintaining it as an equestrian venue. They wanted to put in affordable housing for families. I doubt anyone else will want to buy it, especially any developer if they already know in advance that it ain't gonna happen.

So if you can't eat the whole pie at once, throw it out? Density is a huge issue and just how "affordable" would these homes have been after development? Not all low income housing is as inexpensive as that on the historic side. And, of course, poorer medical services should be everyone's wish since this area can't handle the influx now. Florida will probably be wall to wall houses in 20 years, so hang in there... purgatory is waiting.

[Bogie Shooter]

So if you can't eat the whole pie at once, throw it out? Density is a huge issue and just how "affordable" would these homes have been after development? Not all low income housing is as inexpensive as that on the historic side. And, of course, poorer medical services should be everyone's wish since this area can't handle the influx now. Florida will probably be wall to wall houses in 20 years, so hang in there... purgatory is waiting.

What does that mean?
Wow!
Any response from the “low income “ folks?

[MorTech]

Why does some developers get special treatment and some don’t?

Tax revenues.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So if you can't eat the whole pie at once, throw it out? Density is a huge issue and just how "affordable" would these homes have been after development? Not all low income housing is as inexpensive as that on the historic side. And, of course, poorer medical services should be everyone's wish since this area can't handle the influx now. Florida will probably be wall to wall houses in 20 years, so hang in there... purgatory is waiting.

What are you even talking about, and what does it have to do with my post, which you quoted?

There's also a difference between "low income housing" and "affordable housing." In addition, there are a few homes in the Historic section going for $400,000. What does any of this have to do with poorer medical services? An influx of FAMILY housing options means more doctors, nurses, and other medical practitioners, who aren't ready to retire, finding places they can live near their place of employment.

Nowhere in my post do I say, hint, imply, that I thought 800+ units on this under-400-acre property is a good idea. But if I was the OWNER of the property, and didn't want to continue using it as an equestrian venue, but was interested in helping the community fill the VERY large need (as you have said) of supplying non-retired people into professional jobs - and the county said "nope, you can't do it" - I'd probably just ditch the property. I'd sell the horses, close the restaurant, fire all the employees, and let the bank have it rather than be required to maintain it, pay taxes on it.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have asked for an 800-unit community. I would've gone much smaller, and kept part of it as a resort-style RV camp. The rest of it would be single family homes sold with no private rentals allowed, and a few townhouse apartment buildings with no sublets allowed, with minimum 1-year leases.

In other words - if you want to rent space for a season or short-term in this property, you can bring your RV or camper to a designated area. If you want to LIVE in the area, you have to commit to living here.

That would be what I'd have done, instead of trying to turn it into a mini Water Oak.

[Aces4]

What does that mean?
Wow!
Any response from the “low income “ folks?

You're telling me you are unaware of some of the low income housing occupants on the historic side? Or don't we admit to that seeing this is The Villages? You notice I didn't say all housing on the historic side is low income.

[CarlR33]

The Town Commission Voted No for the annexation of Grand Oaks.

To the Nay-Sayers: You Can Fight For What You Believe In and have a win. Ok, what is a good proposal? I have read posts like this back where we just came from with people saying No to a Synagog (with the usual mean undertones), no to apartments (infrastructure cannot handle more), no to retail strip malls (do we really need more vape shops), no to widening the main road (it did not go far enough out), no to dollar general (I seen this in the middle of nowhere), no to solar farms, (must be to quiet for people)? I guess I have heard and seen it all recently concerning building something new and yes growth stinks but there seems to be that demand for the empty field next door so be careful what you wish for because it may become a data center, wind farm or another Wawa with lots of night lighting or a Burger King spewing out the whopper smell from their grill stack, LOL

[Aces4]

What are you even talking about, and what does it have to do with my post, which you quoted?

There's also a difference between "low income housing" and "affordable housing." In addition, there are a few homes in the Historic section going for $400,000. What does any of this have to do with poorer medical services? An influx of FAMILY housing options means more doctors, nurses, and other medical practitioners, who aren't ready to retire, finding places they can live near their place of employment.

Nowhere in my post do I say, hint, imply, that I thought 800+ units on this under-400-acre property is a good idea. But if I was the OWNER of the property, and didn't want to continue using it as an equestrian venue, but was interested in helping the community fill the VERY large need (as you have said) of supplying non-retired people into professional jobs - and the county said "nope, you can't do it" - I'd probably just ditch the property. I'd sell the horses, close the restaurant, fire all the employees, and let the bank have it rather than be required to maintain it, pay taxes on it.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have asked for an 800-unit community. I would've gone much smaller, and kept part of it as a resort-style RV camp. The rest of it would be single family homes sold with no private rentals allowed, and a few townhouse apartment buildings with no sublets allowed, with minimum 1-year leases.

In other words - if you want to rent space for a season or short-term in this property, you can bring your RV or camper to a designated area. If you want to LIVE in the area, you have to commit to living here.

That would be what I'd have done, instead of trying to turn it into a mini Water Oak.

Yeah, top notch medical practitioners are knocking each other over to move to The Villages.:thumbup:

[Bogie Shooter]

You're telling me you are unaware of some of the low income housing occupants on the historic side? Or don't we admit to that seeing this is The Villages? You notice I didn't say all housing on the historic side is low income.

///////

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You're telling me you are unaware of some of the low income housing occupants on the historic side? Or don't we admit to that seeing this is The Villages? You notice I didn't say all housing on the historic side is low income.

What's your problem with people who have low income? The Villages was built to be affordable for any budget. There are retirees here who never had hundreds of thousands in investments, who bought their homes 20 years ago for less than $60k and are living the dream on just their social security and pensions alone.

As I said - there's "affordable housing" and "low income housing." The Villages doesn't have Section 8 housing, if that's what you're referring to.

[Moderator]

Everybody Quit Talking Directly to each other so the thread won't have to be closed.

[Topspinmo]

Tax revenues.

IMO something different. solve this puzzle, remove every 5th letter to build words, eoiukwertiqqwdcbngtkbweeboperaqcfrcerdtk and my guess will be revealed. :)

[Aces4]

I'm curious to learn what all those neighbors think about the situation, if the owner of the property tells the bank to just keep it - and they abandon it to overgrowth and rodents.

They've already stated they have zero intention of maintaining it as an equestrian venue. They wanted to put in affordable housing for families. I doubt anyone else will want to buy it, especially any developer if they already know in advance that it ain't gonna happen.

If my post is comprehended correctly, one would notice I have no problems with low income housing. I said the density is ridiculous... IMHO, and indicated I doubted the prices on the proposed property of manufactured homes would be cheap. They will probably be quite expensive for low income purchasers not to mention the monthly lot rental fee.

I'm all for low income housing, particularly when it's so difficult to make ends meet for so many these days. Does that mean those residents need to be crammed into an area without enough Drs. to serve them? Just MHO.

[GizmoWhiskers]

The Town Commission Voted No for the annexation of Grand Oaks.

To the Nay-Sayers: You Can Fight For What You Believe In and have a win.
Congrats to them. The fundamental change to sweet little towns under the farce of "affordable housing" is a cancer. Glad that little area got some chemo.

Look at the monstrocity on Powell Road behind the soon to be WaWA... what, maybe a hundred duplex homes 5 ft apart called rental homes. For how many $kk month?? Want to raise kids there? A kid's snot couldn't miss your neighbor if they sneeze!

That is no way to raise kids. Low income families deserve houses to live in. With yards and safe places for kids to play OUTSIDE - remember how we got to play outside 50 years ago?? How about we Make HOUSES Affordable Again!!

Take a look (oh wait its a gated just drive by it will be enough to make you ill) at those disgusting tiny home duplexes crammed in that are less than a regular sized duplexes and tell me I'm wrong! If you took a Villages Villa and put up a wall in the middle it would be bigger than those duplexes.

Commissioners need to be voted out that are taking federal $$ and lining developer pockets. Over crowding and straining resources for small towns. It's disgusting and they think people are stupid to their $$$ in pocket plans.

A win for the little guys!! Good for them!!

[Ponygirl]

The area of Grand Oaks was zoned as a rural protection area and by Lady Lake annexing the acreage the land would no longer protected and could be developed

Many conservation organizations were fighting the annexation That annexation technique is a way to bypass rural protection areas goal of conserving land in delicate areas

If you want more info Lake County Conservation Council members work hard to keep land in conservation status. There are always areas of concern in Lake County

[Topspinmo]

The area of Grand Oaks was zoned as a rural protection area and by Lady Lake annexing the acreage the land would no longer protected and could be developed

Many conservation organizations were fighting the annexation That annexation technique is a way to bypass rural protection areas goal of conserving land in delicate areas

If you want more info Lake County Conservation Council members work hard to keep land in conservation status. There are always areas of concern in Lake County

Funny how not concerned around villages. Grand oaks pretty far away from lady lake. Didn’t mind all development up 466. Same thing goes on in Marion county. One developer can expand while another can’t build on land they brought.

[Sgt Ed]

Why does some developers get special treatment and some don’t? MONEY plain and simple!

[Stu from NYC]

Why does some developers get special treatment and some don’t?

Money talks

[Teemotay]

The area of Grand Oaks was zoned as a rural protection area and by Lady Lake annexing the acreage the land would no longer protected and could be developed

Many conservation organizations were fighting the annexation That annexation technique is a way to bypass rural protection areas goal of conserving land in delicate areas

If you want more info Lake County Conservation Council members work hard to keep land in conservation status. There are always areas of concern in Lake County

You are right on! That’s why we need to have the same people that spoke out against the Grand Oaks expansion to speak out against the proposed Harbor Hills expansion. This will negatively impact sensitive wetlands near Lake Griffin and impact the same neighborhoods as the Grand Oaks proposal.
There was a hearing scheduled for the HH proposal but it has been postponed. I’m sure they’ll make another run at it. I believe it was adding several hundred more homesites.

[Normal]

Ask yourself, do we really need more housing in the area? MLS inventory is setting new records daily here. Apartment complexes are exploding across the area. Rental prices are crashing and the developer is still building. All this while less people are moving to Florida. You would be ruining a nice natural area for what? I’m glad it was denied.

[Pairadocs]

Why does some developers get special treatment and some don’t?

Hummm. that's a very good question, let's see if we can collectively figure that one out. Who wants to guess first, LOL ! ?

[Ponygirl]

Funny how not concerned around villages. Grand oaks pretty far away from lady lake. Didn’t mind all development up 466. Same thing goes on in Marion county. One developer can expand while another can’t build on land they brought.

Actually Grand Oaks is not far from the lady lakes part of the villages.

When traveling on Avenida past Spanish Springs continue across Rt 27 (not sure the name of the road) Go past Circle K and the post office and turn left at the big intersection perhaps a mile Grand Oaks is maybe a quarter of a mile on the right Apologize in advance for not knowing the true distances

[ton80]

Actually Grand Oaks is not far from the lady lakes part of the villages.

When traveling on Avenida past Spanish Springs continue across Rt 27 (not sure the name of the road) Go past Circle K and the post office and turn left at the big intersection perhaps a mile Grand Oaks is maybe a quarter of a mile on the right Apologize in advance for not knowing the true distances

I believe that Grand Oaks Request for Annexation failed primarily is that GOR is not Contiguous to Lady Lake. One of the prime requisites for annexation is that the proposed plot to be annexed is contiguous with the annexing incorporated entity. Check on Google many quotes.
The GOR opponents lawyer pointed this out to Lady Lakes Council that non contiguous annexations are very rare in Florida.

Also trying to supply water and sewage treatment via non Lady Lake areas would be complex and expensive

[MorTech]

IMO something different. solve this puzzle, remove every 5th letter to build words, eoiukwertiqqwdcbngtkbweeboperaqcfrcerdtk and my guess will be revealed. :)

I only needed the first letter :)

Money is what matters...For example, compare/contrast Debbie Road and Lake Denham Drive for "revenue enhancement".

[MorTech]

Low income housing, on net, tend to be taxtakers rather than taxpayers. This is discouraging to local governments cuz it eats into their retirement accounts...errr...Budgets.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Low income housing, on net, tend to be taxtakers rather than taxpayers. This is discouraging to local governments cuz it eats into their retirement accounts...errr...Budgets.

Annnnnd for the folks in back who were too busy on their cell phones to pay attention the first two times:

LOW INCOME HOUSING IS NOT THE SAME THING AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

Affordable housing provides people starting out in their careers (such as medical professionals who've completed their internships, certifications, doctorates, etc, and now have a craptastic amount of loans to start paying back) the opportunity to live closer to where they work. That means they'll be paying taxes on these properties, paying taxes whenever they go to OUR restaurants, paying taxes on anything else that involves taxes, spending money to contribute to the continued and future success of all kinds of other businesses, keeping the accountants employed, maybe even BEING the accountants, and so on and so forth.

These won't be people living on welfare checks and section 8 housing. They'll be the younger people who support the Villages. There aren't enough nurses or doctors to staff the hospital or nursing facilities in The Villages. Do you want some 80-year-old attendant who is physically incapable of getting you from your wheelchair to your bed if you need an overnight stay in the hospital, because that's the best you can get within a half hour drive, willing to work for only $18/hour? Or would you be overjoyed knowing that your attendant is the 28-year-old husband of a gal who finished her residency at NYU last year and the good doctor moved her family south, but wanted to be closer to the Regional/Spanish Plaines/Whatever hospital than what she'd get in Middleton, at half the price?

You might not remember that the hospital actually put a bounty out for new doctors last year. They offered a reward to anyone who could refer one that got hired and stuck around. That's how bad it is. We need "affordable" (NOT LOW INCOME - it means something different) family homes that aren't owned or developed by The Villages.

Weirsdale is in Marion County. Grand Oaks is in Weirsdale, and should appeal to Marion County for services that allow for MODEST development that preserves the rural atmosphere while allowing for family housing and modest amenities (a couple of pools, rec center/meeting hall, luncheonette, and maybe a commissary/canteen). Maybe have a community garden where people can grow vegetables and have communal harvesting/sharing to save money and support that whole idea of rural living.

[Bill14564]

...
Weirsdale is in Marion County. Grand Oaks is in Weirsdale, and should appeal to Marion County for services that allow for MODEST development that preserves the rural atmosphere while allowing for family housing and modest amenities (a couple of pools, rec center/meeting hall, luncheonette, and maybe a commissary/canteen). Maybe have a community garden where people can grow vegetables and have communal harvesting/sharing to save money and support that whole idea of rural living.

FWIW: Regardless of the USPS address, google maps believes the Grand Oaks property is in Lake County.

[Ponygirl]

Annnnnd for the folks in back who were too busy on their cell phones to pay attention the first two times:

LOW INCOME HOUSING IS NOT THE SAME THING AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

Affordable housing provides people starting out in their careers (such as medical professionals who've completed their internships, certifications, doctorates, etc, and now have a craptastic amount of loans to start paying back) the opportunity to live closer to where they work. That means they'll be paying taxes on these properties, paying taxes whenever they go to OUR restaurants, paying taxes on anything else that involves taxes, spending money to contribute to the continued and future success of all kinds of other businesses, keeping the accountants employed, maybe even BEING the accountants, and so on and so forth.

These won't be people living on welfare checks and section 8 housing. They'll be the younger people who support the Villages. There aren't enough nurses or doctors to staff the hospital or nursing facilities in The Villages. Do you want some 80-year-old attendant who is physically incapable of getting you from your wheelchair to your bed if you need an overnight stay in the hospital, because that's the best you can get within a half hour drive, willing to work for only $18/hour? Or would you be overjoyed knowing that your attendant is the 28-year-old husband of a gal who finished her residency at NYU last year and the good doctor moved her family south, but wanted to be closer to the Regional/Spanish Plaines/Whatever hospital than what she'd get in Middleton, at half the price?

You might not remember that the hospital actually put a bounty out for new doctors last year. They offered a reward to anyone who could refer one that got hired and stuck around. That's how bad it is. We need "affordable" (NOT LOW INCOME - it means something different) family homes that aren't owned or developed by The Villages.

Weirsdale is in Marion County. Grand Oaks is in Weirsdale, and should appeal to Marion County for services that allow for MODEST development that preserves the rural atmosphere while allowing for family housing and modest amenities (a couple of pools, rec center/meeting hall, luncheonette, and maybe a commissary/canteen). Maybe have a community garden where people can grow vegetables and have communal harvesting/sharing to save money and support that whole idea of rural living.


Grand oaks is definitely in Lake county The plan was to build 797 manufactured homes on the 400 acres.

I thank everyone who worked hard to prevent the annexation of the property which was in rural protection status

Next Stop development in another rural preservation area with fragile marsh lands named Emeralda preserve next to Lake Griffen where developers want to build 1000 homes

[Altavia]

Why does some developers get special treatment and some don’t?

Maybe because some complete around ten homes a day adding over two billion to the property tax base a year while employing 15,000+ people.

At the same time, they complete three a state off the art charter schools without tax payer funding.

And have two major new comercal areasin advanced development.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Grand oaks is definitely in Lake county The plan was to build 797 manufactured homes on the 400 acres.

I thank everyone who worked hard to prevent the annexation of the property which was in rural protection status

Next Stop development in another rural preservation area with fragile marsh lands named Emeralda preserve next to Lake Griffen where developers want to build 1000 homes

I'd read the plan was to have more than 800 units on fewer than 400 acres. I think that's way too much, and if they had asked for 250 units they probably could've gotten it done.

You do know they already have mobile homes there right? And tiny home cottages, and full-sized site-built houses. 30 houses in total. And it's an RV park with 60 full-hookup sites that come with sewer hookups.

If they really want to make trouble for the "neighbors" they could lower the rents significantly and let the riff-raff stay there by the week. Maybe turn a few closest to the road into luxury no-tell motel rooms with waterbeds and mirrors on the ceiling, that rent by the hour.

I repeat - I do NOT think that the scope of their plans was appropriate, it should not be anywhere near 800 units. I think even half that might be too much. But they're supposed to be a profitable equestrian venue and they haven't really been profitable, now that Ocala has the big equestrian center that takes all of the primary attractions, and the Villages Polo club has its own stables and paddocks. They need to be encouraged to change the details of their plan, with the blessing of WHATEVER COUNTY they happen to be in.

Otherwise - there's really no one to blame but the people who gave them a hard no with no room for re-designing the plan, if the owner abandons the property, or just lets it fall to neglect and turns it into Ocala Forest Homeless Camp, Part II.

[Aces4]

Annnnnd for the folks in back who were too busy on their cell phones to pay attention the first two times:

LOW INCOME HOUSING IS NOT THE SAME THING AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

Affordable housing provides people starting out in their careers (such as medical professionals who've completed their internships, certifications, doctorates, etc, and now have a craptastic amount of loans to start paying back) the opportunity to live closer to where they work. That means they'll be paying taxes on these properties, paying taxes whenever they go to OUR restaurants, paying taxes on anything else that involves taxes, spending money to contribute to the continued and future success of all kinds of other businesses, keeping the accountants employed, maybe even BEING the accountants, and so on and so forth.

These won't be people living on welfare checks and section 8 housing. They'll be the younger people who support the Villages. There aren't enough nurses or doctors to staff the hospital or nursing facilities in The Villages. Do you want some 80-year-old attendant who is physically incapable of getting you from your wheelchair to your bed if you need an overnight stay in the hospital, because that's the best you can get within a half hour drive, willing to work for only $18/hour? Or would you be overjoyed knowing that your attendant is the 28-year-old husband of a gal who finished her residency at NYU last year and the good doctor moved her family south, but wanted to be closer to the Regional/Spanish Plaines/Whatever hospital than what she'd get in Middleton, at half the price?

You might not remember that the hospital actually put a bounty out for new doctors last year. They offered a reward to anyone who could refer one that got hired and stuck around. That's how bad it is. We need "affordable" (NOT LOW INCOME - it means something different) family homes that aren't owned or developed by The Villages.

Weirsdale is in Marion County. Grand Oaks is in Weirsdale, and should appeal to Marion County for services that allow for MODEST development that preserves the rural atmosphere while allowing for family housing and modest amenities (a couple of pools, rec center/meeting hall, luncheonette, and maybe a commissary/canteen). Maybe have a community garden where people can grow vegetables and have communal harvesting/sharing to save money and support that whole idea of rural living.


Sigh... low income housing is affordable housing. One receives more subsidies in designated low income, which also happens to some in the so called affordable homes. Either way, people need homes and a quality of living and not being packed in like rats. Think of the additional traffic on local roads with that number of homes.

There aren't very few startup professional professional people who want to live in a manufactured homes, if any. And I see there is agreement that attracting doctors to Florida is like pulling teeth.

All those nice amenities that are suggested come with a hefty price tag and new, low income/affordable housing costs are already out the door without the addition of those features. The restaurants and businesses in The Villages who rate high enough to create great foot traffic, don't need more.

IMHO, the whole plan needs to be reworked with greatly reduced unit numbers. People who require low-income/affordable homes don't have a lot of extra change for eating out and shopping these days. But they would be like to enjoy a yard without someone peering in their windows.

[MorTech]

Annnnnd for the folks in back who were too busy on their cell phones to pay attention the first two times:

LOW INCOME HOUSING IS NOT THE SAME THING AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.



Where is the delineation?...I'm asking for those on their cell phones.

[Two Bills]

The thing many forget, is Affordable Housing is only affordable to the initial buyer.
After that, market prices dictate values, and affordability.