Failing Schools

[Pugchief]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

[Bogie Shooter]

Book banning?

[fdpaq0580]

Book banning?

Partly. But, I think many, if not most, kids are more interested in being internet sensations and influencers. Why work at anything when videoing everything that you see and posting it brings rewards with every view. Everybody wants to be a star in one way or another, as long as it doesn't mean you have to work too hard for it.

[manaboutown]

It is my understanding SAT scores peaked out in 1965. It has been downhill ever since which prompted the test being dumbed down.

History of the SAT - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_SAT)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Book banning, de-emphasis on quality public education and shifted emphasis to "school choice," which means poorer schools get even less funding. Lower teaching standards with more paperwork for teachers which results in higher turnover rate, burnout, and shortages. Higher costs for teachers to get educated and quality to BE teachers - but their pay doesn't cover the loans, so fewer people are actually becoming teachers even if they have the degree for it. Parents choosing not to emphasize the importance of a high school diploma, communities choosing to prep kids for things like agriculture, technology, and plumbing and not for the sciences and humanities (why should they need to learn how to read and write English, if they're going to spend the rest of their lives fixing toilets, networking computers, or landscaping?) I personally blame Texas Instruments for the math failures. Kids don't have to know how to do mathematics. Their computers do all the work for them.

[Stu from NYC]

School systems who think what is happening is ok and want to dumb down education.

Once upon a time kids could be left back and were encouraged to compete.

[manaboutown]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

I just noticed (no surprise), that New Mexico at 21% had the lowest reading competency of all 50 states. Last I read only about 65% of children there graduate high school. I am saddened because it is my home state as I grew up there. I also still own and operate a business in NM so am firsthand all too familiar with the illiteracy and terrible crime rate.

[JoMar]

Book banning, de-emphasis on quality public education and shifted emphasis to "school choice," which means poorer schools get even less funding. Lower teaching standards with more paperwork for teachers which results in higher turnover rate, burnout, and shortages. Higher costs for teachers to get educated and quality to BE teachers - but their pay doesn't cover the loans, so fewer people are actually becoming teachers even if they have the degree for it. Parents choosing not to emphasize the importance of a high school diploma, communities choosing to prep kids for things like agriculture, technology, and plumbing and not for the sciences and humanities (why should they need to learn how to read and write English, if they're going to spend the rest of their lives fixing toilets, networking computers, or landscaping?) I personally blame Texas Instruments for the math failures. Kids don't have to know how to do mathematics. Their computers do all the work for them.

I suspect that people looking for success have figured it out, they will have a rising income fixing toilets, networking computers and maybe even landscaping as they contribute to the needs of the population. The humanities may provide personal satisfaction but are not profitable carrers for the majority and usually end up going backwards or holding multiple jobs. I believe the sciences are doing well as we educate the world on the sciences. Kids knowing how to do math is no longer required. If it comes down to picking the person that knows how to do math or knows how to operate technology guess who wins. Even slide rules are now in museums.

[Aces4]

Book banning, de-emphasis on quality public education and shifted emphasis to "school choice," which means poorer schools get even less funding. Lower teaching standards with more paperwork for teachers which results in higher turnover rate, burnout, and shortages. Higher costs for teachers to get educated and quality to BE teachers - but their pay doesn't cover the loans, so fewer people are actually becoming teachers even if they have the degree for it. Parents choosing not to emphasize the importance of a high school diploma, communities choosing to prep kids for things like agriculture, technology, and plumbing and not for the sciences and humanities (why should they need to learn how to read and write English, if they're going to spend the rest of their lives fixing toilets, networking computers, or landscaping?) I personally blame Texas Instruments for the math failures. Kids don't have to know how to do mathematics. Their computers do all the work for them.

By all means, children who are not able to read 8 to 10 selected books before the age of 18 definitely causes ignorance and illiteracy. No wonder education is failing.

I love the panning of the trades which are crucial to the health of our country and most computer operators, administrators and security personnel are able to run circles around college graduates. One needs to come in contact with these employees outside the Florida environment. They are hardworking, bright people who deal with the real world and not tainted by a college environment where many classes are taught by a TA.

First question I have, are all of the children tested American citizens, speak English and have a dedicated home/household to which they return at night? If broad testing is being performed on all children at all levels, the results could be very skewed. A clarification would be welcome.

The majority of children are being raised in an overindulgent home life where everything is provided, chores aren't required, there isn't a dedicated homework time, sports come first and the kids faces are glued to cellphones. Reading isn't encouraged and a trip to the library is a very last priority.

[villager7591]

Reading, writing and arithmetic should be the focus...not which pronoun to use, gender reassignment, etc.

[Bogie Shooter]

by all means, children who are not able to read 8 to 10 selected books before the age of 18 definitely causes ignorance and illiteracy. No wonder education is failing.

I love the panning of the trades which are crucial to the health of our country and most computer operators, administrators and security personnel are able to run circles around college graduates. One needs to come in contact with these employees outside the florida environment. They are hardworking, bright people who deal with the real world and not tainted by a college environment where many classes are taught by a ta.

first question i have, are all of the children tested american citizens, speak english and have a dedicated home/household to which they return at night? if broad testing is being performed on all children at all levels, the results could be very skewed. A clarification would be welcome.

The majority of children are being raised in an overindulgent home life where everything is provided, chores aren't required, there isn't a dedicated homework time, sports come first and the kids faces are glued to cellphones. Reading isn't encouraged and a trip to the library is a very last priority.
wow.!
(Send them to the camps)

[Topspinmo]

Book banning?

Laugh of the day. :1rotfl:

[Topspinmo]

Wow you means the billions of dollars spent public schools has failed taxpayers. O wait that not enough is it. More money will solve that problem. O wait the lottery was supposed to solve public schools funding, o wait 90% get siphoned off. Yep, more money will solve that problem, sure it will. Several reasons why public education failing and IMO the biggest federal government and teachers unions. Parents ways down the list. :jester:

[Aces4]

wow.!
(Send them to the camps)

Critical thinking is so important and so many are missing those skills... we're talking about statistics and how these may be skewed by many factors.

It's a waste of time trying to read anything more into it than that and it is not germane to the subject. :ohdear:

[jimbomaybe]

Wow you means the billions of dollars spent public schools has failed taxpayers. O wait that not enough is it. More money will solve that problem. O wait the lottery was supposed to solve public schools funding, o wait 90% get siphoned off. Yep, more money will solve that problem, sure it will. Several reasons why public education failing and IMO the biggest federal government and teachers unions. Parents ways down the list. :jester:
Many private schools are an out growth of religious organizations, teachers who see teaching as a calling. Parental involvement. School choice and selective enrollment that the teachers unions have no use for, it puts school performance under scrutiny. My son went through a selective enrollment high school a place with both parents and student had a very deferent attitude from the usual public high school . The Washington post has an article on how GPAs were up and SAT scores were down, that is the answer of the public school systems dominated by the teacher unions.

[Kzeus4]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

As a retired teacher, I can only say that problems with our education system are complex, and I feel so sorry for both teachers and children in the public school system today. I'll share just some of my experiences and the subsequent reasons for our failing schools.

Children are coming to school from a home-life much different than many of us experienced growing up. They do not have adequate parental support, and that is part of a larger societal issue. Children come to school without having eaten breakfast and without provisions for lunch (although many schools these days do have a subsidized program). I've experienced students who can't stay awake because parents are fighting/partying/not home to supervise the children. I've had students who are victims of abuse, children who come to school from a homeless shelter, or are moving from place to place. A significant number of children had many absences due to illness, parents who don't bring them to school, or pull them from school altogether for trips across borders to be with family that may last months at a time. They then return to the classroom, and teachers are somehow expected to help bring them up to the standards of the other students who have been in attendance during the others' absence.
I didn't speak English when I started elementary school, but there was no ESL, so immersion solved that problem - not only for me, but for the many students in my class whose parents (World War II immigrants) spoke a variety of languages at home. However, we were encouraged to learn English and our parents were very supportive and always emphasized the importance of education as the foundation for a successful future.
Because of dysfunction at home and the psychological damage it can cause, there are so many more behavior problems in the classroom which can make it so very difficult to focus on teaching, when lessons are disrupted time and again by students who have little to no impulse control due to a variety of factors.
In addition, teachers and administrators are under extreme pressure to produce improvement in academic areas, while minimizing sanctions for students who hinder the ability of others to learn. In districts where funding is tied to the attendance, principals do not expel students - rather those who break the rules are given in-school suspension, where they might sit in the principal's office for the day.
Teachers receive pressure from parents, the administration, and the district, as well. They frequently pay out of pocket for supplies. They take work home with them nightly, and take time from their families to write lesson plans over the weekend. There were days when I was so very sick with fever and worse - yet I had to create lesson plans for the 5 grade levels I taught (I was a music teacher) PLUS choir, and a special needs class which had its own specialized curriculum. My lessons had to be specially prepared for a substitute who might not have any musical background, as one never knew who would be called in. Because music and physical education are constantly threatened with cuts, the District made a deal with the unions that provided classroom teachers with planning time which was fulfilled by the "specialists." Teachers would drop off the students at music class, and they transitioned to P.E. giving the teachers a one-hour block. However, for me that meant up to 8 classes a day back to back, with just 1/2 hour lunch. Bathroom breaks? Non-existent - one could not leave students unsupervised for even 15 seconds, as (heaven forbid) something might happen to a child, and that could be the end of a teaching career.
I won't go on - but I could!! I loved the children. I loved the subject matter. But the conditions became such that it started to impact my health and I'm fortunate to have retired when I did.
Finally, when my daughters began their careers in private industry (in the fields of technology and advertising), they shared with me their working conditions: Companies that support a healthy lifestyle and paid for gym memberships, encouraged workers to take time to live a healthy lifestyle, provided complimentary tickets to sporting events, concerts, etc., stocked refrigerators with beverages and fruit, and offered stock options and other benefits. Yes, there are pressures, just like any other job, but there is no comparison to the stress that teachers face on a daily basis - this, while trying to provide our students with a consistent environment that is conducive to learning.
By the way, toward the end of my career, I taught upper level classes at a local college for future classroom teachers to learn creative ways in which one can integrate the arts (such as music) with the curriculum to improve learning in such areas as literacy and math. Students were required to write papers for this class, and I received pushback from the students whose grades were lowered due to spelling and grammatical errors. Even as student-teachers, they felt that they should not have to be held accountable for literacy, since the class was considered a "music class." If future teachers hold this attitude, what can we then expect from their students?
p.s. Although my observations may come off as negative, I'm grateful to have had many wonderful and positive experiences throughout my 40+ years as a teacher and - in fact - received an award in the State where I taught as "Music Educator of the Year."
Thank you for allowing me to share my experiences and I hope it will provide some insight as to why our schools are struggling to turn out students who can meet the standards.

[jasamy2]

By all means, children who are not able to read 8 to 10 selected books before the age of 18 definitely causes ignorance and illiteracy. No wonder education is failing.

I love the panning of the trades which are crucial to the health of our country and most computer operators, administrators and security personnel are able to run circles around college graduates. One needs to come in contact with these employees outside the Florida environment. They are hardworking, bright people who deal with the real world and not tainted by a college environment where many classes are taught by a TA.

First question I have, are all of the children tested American citizens, speak English and have a dedicated home/household to which they return at night? If broad testing is being performed on all children at all levels, the results could be very skewed. A clarification would be welcome.

The majority of children are being raised in an overindulgent home life where everything is provided, chores aren't required, there isn't a dedicated homework time, sports come first and the kids faces are glued to cellphones. Reading isn't encouraged and a trip to the library is a very last priority.
Sadly, I agree 100%. Overindulgence of this generation of kids will hurt them more than the parents realize. How can kids understand they will have to work hard for anything they want as adults if everything comes so easily now?

[Cuervo]

My view is that schools are not failing as much as they do not gear children for life as it is.
They teach reading, writing, math, history, English and all the basics, but what is missing is a course in life. Now this should be something that should be the responsibility of the parents, but most are either ill-equipped or do not spend the time.
What would this course teach our children, that life is competitive, take them on a field trip to a car wash and show them the people diving up in their fancy cars and explain to them the one with a fancier car are the ones who learned and put their education to use and point out the ones who are washing the cars.
This might sound cruel, but they have to understand what life is about.
Also have classes on not only how to make money, but how to save, spend and invest.
Look at the end of the day not all the kids are going to land in the corner office with all the glass windows, but even if they take a trade, they will have a target.
Also, as seminars on marriage and I'm not talking about sex, the reality of the ups and downs.
You can call this type of study "Real Life".
The lesson is it's better to retire comfortably than poor.

[Pmelo]

Public School Rankings by State 2024 (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state)

[LoisR]

Florida has some of the worst schools in the country. Look at the data, all the data.

[LoisR]

Florida has some of the worst schools in the country, not the best. Check the data, all the data, not one reviewer.

[GizmoWhiskers]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.
Not even a why question. It's obvious. P C dumbing down of America plain and simple. You think all the social apps and electronics are by chance?

We are what we eat, breathe, see and hear. How does that rate to countries about to exceed us. It's pretty simple to figure out.

At least The Villages, for now, is its own brain for education. More and more are home-schooling for good cause.

[bumpa]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

Might be doing great in the 4th grade but Over all FL ranks 42th in grade school rankings.

[waterflower]

Remember who wrote the survey. The proof is in the pudding. Most people in this country do not know how to grow food. The list can go on and on. The country as a whole doesn't make anything, we are a debit-consumer nation.

[FredMitchell]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

The graph is nice, but it does not bear any relevance to your question. Your question is temporal in nature. The graph is geographical. All of the answers to this point missed this. If you want an answer that can be examined with analyiical thinking, please try to find historical data.

Then we can examine other social historical data to try to find some correlation. Maybe even one of the new AI GPT engines could assist after we start it with useful data.

[CybrSage]

shifted emphasis to "school choice," which means poorer schools get even less funding.

It means worse schools get less funding. Why send your kids to worse schools on purpose? Not a smart move for any parent.

[CybrSage]

The teachers I know, and I know about a dozen in various states, all say it is due to the students running the classrooms. Teachers have no power to do anything but send the kid to the principal, the main punishment allowed to be given is to expel the kid, which is what they want...to be home all day. The teachers are also strongly encouraged to pass every kid regardless of learning level.
The kids know all this as well.
The main source of the problem is the parents. I have seen letters from parents that literally blame the teacher for the student cussing her out and threatening her. Even when a video shows the student was the aggressor.
Until the parents start to care, nothing will change.

[dtennent]

While it is convenient to blame teachers, education starts in the home and needs to be emphasized throughout the educational process. When the message from multiple sources makes education less important than sports, social media, etc., it isn’t surprising that our students are not performing well. From what I have observed, children from recent immigrants performed much better than average. In the home in which I was raised, my performance in school was a regular discussion. As a parent, I continued that tradition. Unfortunately, my kids haven’t been as diligent. I am guessing that is not happening much in the average home today.

[CybrSage]

wow.!
(Send them to the camps)

In your rush to be offended, you chose to miss the point.

He was asking if those who know English as their second language, having only just started to learn it, are included in the reading test scores.

Are you still choosing to be offended over nothing after reading that?

It is a good question, especially in border states where a large minority of students are just starting to learn English in 3rd grade and up. This will lower the test scores, obviously, when included with those born into English speaking families. It will make English abilities in border states worse than those far away from the border.

My thought is they do take that into consideration. I do not know for sure but it is certainly a valid question and not offensive to anyone who is not seeking to be offended.

Next time you make up a story in your head, choose to make up a good one rather than assume the worst of others. Being offended on purpose is foolish.

[Bay Kid]

America has been dumbed down since '68. Instead of bringing the bottom up we bring the top down.

[dewilson58]

...

[ehonour]

Public School Rankings by State 2024 (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/public-school-rankings-by-state)

This survey (not the one originally cited by OP) provides part of the answer to the OP's original question, when you read the criteria for evaluation:

"WalletHub ranked each state's public schools for "Quality" and "Safety" using 33 relevant metrics. Metrics included high school graduation rate among low-income students, math and reading scores, median SAT and ACT scores, pupil-teach ratio, the share of armed students, the number of school shootings between 2000 and June 2020, bullying incidence rate, and more"

Some of these factors are good measures. Many others are NOT what I would consider to be measures of a "good school." They are factors brought in by the PC crowd with the intent of social engineering. It can even be reasonably argued that lack of safety in schools is a direct result of the PC attitudes, as others have noted above. And unfortunately, it is those same factors, used as measures of "learning," that have de-emphasized the core purposes of reading, writing, and arithmetic.

[dewilson58]

Yeah, the kids are filling reading, writing and arithmetic because they banned all the sexually graphic books from school libraries...
Makes sense to me now...

Not jus kids

:MOJE_whot:

[MandoMan]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

Blame Parents Not Teachers.
The Covid shutdown is a sad excuse. Parents were home with their kids for months and could have been sitting down with them and reading to them and helping them read, one on one. Too many parents think it’s up to the teachers to teach, but really parents should be the primary teachers of their children. Reading to children for an hour or more every day from when they are about one leads to their eagerness to learn to read on their own. Shows like Sesame Street can teach a lot but don’t make up for parents reading aloud.

This isn’t a matter of money. There are lots of public libraries. There are books sales with books going for a dollar. The failure to read to children is found in prosperous homes as well as impoverished homes. It requires dedication of time by parents.

Later, it’s important to give kids time and incentive to read. Lots of kids spend so much time playing sports or hanging out with friends or texting or watching cute things on their phones that they don’t have time to read books.

I taught College English for about forty years. In most cases, the students who started class reading well were the ones whose parents helped them develop a habit of reading. Every time I surveyed the students, I discovered that about 10% of my college freshmen had never read an entire book outside of class assignments. Those were the students most likely to drop out. But I discovered that if I assigned exciting books, I could get them hooked on reading. So I gave up teaching Medieval Literature and started teaching Detective Fiction and The Thriller and Post-Apocalyptic Fiction and things like that to freshmen who needed a literature credit. It worked. But how much better for them if their parents had guided them.

[Johnsocat]

I just noticed (no surprise), that New Mexico at 21% had the lowest reading competency of all 50 states. Last I read only about 65% of children there graduate high school. I am saddened because it is my home state as I grew up there. I also still own and operate a business in NM so am firsthand all too familiar with the illiteracy and terrible crime rate.

Do you think the influx of immigrants in the New Mexico schools who are testing and graduating are included in the statistics may be part of the reason New Mexico's numbers are so low?
Not being sarcastic or xenophobic, just wondering if that may be a factor...

[KSSunshine]

NAEP is administered at various points along a child's educational career. This is not a survey as another commenter proposed, but an actual assessment. This particular map focused on 4th grade reading comprehension. Reading is required for professional and non-professional work that pays a sustainable life. After many years working in education, parental involvement communicating the value of education is the most component of a child's successful education. While economics do factor in, a parent who provides support for education in the home, regardless of income, second-language, or parental education, demonstrates the importance of education to their child(ren) which in turn messages the child that this is their primary job...to do well in school, both academically and behaviorally. The NAEP is a snapshot along a child's educational career that informs the district, state and nation's educational health as well as identifies weaknesses that need to be addressed. It is also available for other subject content which is available on the NAEP website. If you are concerned about the nation's educational health, it's worth reading.

[bp243]

Book banning, de-emphasis on quality public education and shifted emphasis to "school choice," which means poorer schools get even less funding. Lower teaching standards with more paperwork for teachers which results in higher turnover rate, burnout, and shortages. Higher costs for teachers to get educated and quality to BE teachers - but their pay doesn't cover the loans, so fewer people are actually becoming teachers even if they have the degree for it. Parents choosing not to emphasize the importance of a high school diploma, communities choosing to prep kids for things like agriculture, technology, and plumbing and not for the sciences and humanities (why should they need to learn how to read and write English, if they're going to spend the rest of their lives fixing toilets, networking computers, or landscaping?) I personally blame Texas Instruments for the math failures. Kids don't have to know how to do mathematics. Their computers do all the work for them.

Lots of well-articulated answers here!

[HORNET]

Educated Dummies leading the School Systems

[villager7591]

Parents want school choice because they don't agree with what teachers are teaching...IMHO

[bruce213]

The problem begins at home. Teachers only have so much time to teach. If that time is spent parenting, disciplining, and dealing with disruptive kids there is little time to teach.
Parents need to support the teachers, make the kids complete homework, and teach them to behave nothing will change.

[bp243]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

As of May 7, 2024, U.S. News and World Report, Florida is ranked #1 in the nation for education. The ranking is based on a combination of strong performance in higher education and K-12 metrics.
As a retired educator, I’m interested to know how educators/schools are preparing their students for the real world. In other words, are students ready to use their potential to make the world a better place? Are students giving back more than they’re taking from the government? Also, are students sharing their talents in a kind and supportive way? Education to prepare you for life is so much more than test scores.

[phylt]

I may have missed something along the way here. What the Hxll is 'book banning'?

I am 100% for school choice, charter schools, and diminish the power of teacher unions. The USA pay SO much to 'support' public schools, with horrible results.

[dewilson58]

Yeah, the kids are failling reading, writing and arithmetic because they banned all the sexually graphic books from school libraries...
Makes sense to me now...

Third time is the charm.

Damn schools.

:beer3:

[TheWarriors]

In your rush to be offended, you chose to miss the point.

He was asking if those who know English as their second language, having only just started to learn it, are included in the reading test scores.

Are you still choosing to be offended over nothing after reading that?

It is a good question, especially in border states where a large minority of students are just starting to learn English in 3rd grade and up. This will lower the test scores, obviously, when included with those born into English speaking families. It will make English abilities in border states worse than those far away from the border.

My thought is they do take that into consideration. I do not know for sure but it is certainly a valid question and not offensive to anyone who is not seeking to be offended.

Next time you make up a story in your head, choose to make up a good one rather than assume the worst of others. Being offended on purpose is foolish.

Why is it called English as a Second language? How about English as your PRIMARY language! Assimilate or we are done. Diversity is overplayed, COMMONALITY IS OUR STRENGTH.

[NotGolfer]

I graduated in the early 60's....my other 1/2 went to college and came out an educator. Back when we went to school we had less hours and also by h.s. accerlerated classes. By the time my other 1/2 was teaching the unions were heavily involved. I worked in a school system and was appalled by what I was observing (it was in the late 80's). Teachers were constatly getting a substitute because they had conferences to attend. Consistency in the classroom seemed almost non-existant. Students were being "taught" to sight-read. I didn't understand the concept as there were ones who were struggling with it. Now students aren't taught cursive or phonetics....I could go on but then I'd probably get kicked off this forum. My belief is that the whole system needs a re-haul.

[Topspinmo]

Many private schools are an out growth of religious organizations, teachers who see teaching as a calling. Parental involvement. School choice and selective enrollment that the teachers unions have no use for, it puts school performance under scrutiny. My son went through a selective enrollment high school a place with both parents and student had a very deferent attitude from the usual public high school . The Washington post has an article on how GPAs were up and SAT scores were down, that is the answer of the public school systems dominated by the teacher unions.

Majority Teachers in class room not problem IT’s management especially superintendents that make 1/2 million year with 80% retirement packages which mostly unfunded, now shall we take about the agenda.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sadly, I agree 100%. Overindulgence of this generation of kids will hurt them more than the parents realize. How can kids understand they will have to work hard for anything they want as adults if everything comes so easily now?

Overindulgence of today's kids - who is overindulging them? THeir parents. Who taught those parents how to BE parents? THEIR parents. The buck stops with The Villages generation.

You created these parents, and now our country has to deal with the fallout.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Educated Dummies leading the School Systems

Maybe y'all shouldn't have raised all those educated dummies.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Parents want school choice because they don't agree with what teachers are teaching...IMHO

Parents are welcome to teach their own kids. Homeschooling and even "unschooling" is a thing, it's a valid educational option.

My mom - who was a public school teacher for more than 30 years, always used to say: if you don't like how someone is doing something, then get off your fat arse and do it yourself."

[Aces4]

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2371972]Overindulgence of today's kids - who is overindulging them? THeir parents. Who taught those parents how to BE parents? THEIR parents. The buck stops with The Villages generation.

You created these parents, and now our country has to deal with the fallout.[/QUOTE


Oh, right! It's the grandparents fault... now I've had my laugh of the day. I'd say guess again.chilout

[Aces4]

Parents are welcome to teach their own kids. Homeschooling and even "unschooling" is a thing, it's a valid educational option.

My mom - who was a public school teacher for more than 30 years, always used to say: if you don't like how someone is doing something, then get off your fat arse and do it yourself."

I know several home schooling parents and they are remarkable. I am concerned that a few books have been withheld from their children until after the age of 18 and there are no Narcan dispensers in their homes. Other than that, their children appear to be intelligent and thriving. Go figure.

[CybrSage]

Why is it called English as a Second language? How about English as your PRIMARY language! Assimilate or we are done. Diversity is overplayed, COMMONALITY IS OUR STRENGTH.

It is called counting. If a person knows two languages, the one they orignally learned is called their first language. The one they learned next is called...see if you can guess what comes after first.
Here is a hint, it comes before third and starts with s...

[Federspiel]

I have 2 grandkids in a Chattanooga Christian school and 2 grandkids in a Chicago public school.

The difference I starteling.

[DonnaNi4os]

My granddaughter in Ft Meyers told me that their teachers don’t even have a college degree. I thought that she surely was mistaken but my daughter confirmed. My grandson in Naples found that when they moved here 2 years ago that the curriculum is what he did in NJ the year prior.

[OhioBuckeye]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.

I hate to say this but personally I think it’s our govt. that’s changing not the way our schools are changing! Yes it could be blamed on Covid.

[Aces4]

Parents choosing not to emphasize the importance of a high school diploma, communities choosing to prep kids for things like agriculture, technology, and plumbing and not for the sciences and humanities (why should they need to learn how to read and write English, if they're going to spend the rest of their lives fixing toilets, networking computers, or landscaping?)

I have to say that the inference that blue collar workers can't read or write and their work is demeaning bothers me more than a little bit.

I had, for most of my working years, a white collar job. I cannot emphasize enough the ambition, skill and intelligence we have encountered with employees in the trades.

We just had our vehicle serviced this morning by a hardworking, interesting, soft-spoken gentleman. He has managed and operated his garage for many years without a college graduate standing by his shoulder telling him what to do and yet his work is top notch and reasonable. He has one employee and a large clientele. By the way, business has definitely slowed with inflation and people are postponing any work until absolutely necessary.

Just imagine, he accomplished all this with the prep of his high school education and no degree in the humanities. These blue collars workers are the salt of the earth that keep the world running. We have encountered so many individuals in the trades over the years that are bright, practical and sharp.

A little respect, please..

[Stu from NYC]

Our dept of education seems to have played a large part in failing schools

[Topspinmo]

The teachers I know, and I know about a dozen in various states, all say it is due to the students running the classrooms. Teachers have no power to do anything but send the kid to the principal, the main punishment allowed to be given is to expel the kid, which is what they want...to be home all day. The teachers are also strongly encouraged to pass every kid regardless of learning level.
The kids know all this as well.
The main source of the problem is the parents. I have seen letters from parents that literally blame the teacher for the student cussing her out and threatening her. Even when a video shows the student was the aggressor.
Until the parents start to care, nothing will change.


IMO True for maybe 30%, few bad apples run the whole bushel for everyone. Not everybody can be brain surgeons or space X rocket scientist. But, that don’t mean they don’t have some type of potential skill. But, the system not skill bases, based on all to be brain surgeons. Then, you got 15% that know matter what you do it won’t make difference.

Another thing students really have no excuses, all they got to do in comment and learn. Federal government passes out student loans like candy. Us older generation didn’t have that luxury, we had to take any job available so we wasn’t mooches.

Majority don’t make good career choices and get worthless degrees and can get good paying job. They run up the student loan debt partying, taking spring breaks, buying electronics, and some new cars. Then when the can’t suck no more students loans and have get job then complain I can’t pay my 100K plus student loan debt. Well, guess what, they made bad choices and now suffer consequences. Rest of society has same debt responsibilities.

[maistocars]

The age of the smartphone and schools allowing kids to have them in class.

[JudyMonin]

The books that are being banned in school SHOULD BE BANNED.
Teaching children that you can change your sex if you want, at the k-6 level is not what schools should be teaching!
Talk about failing grades, this could possibly be part of the problem.

[Bogie Shooter]

The books that are being banned in school SHOULD BE BANNED.
Teaching children that you can change your sex if you want, at the k-6 level is not what schools should be teaching!
Talk about failing grades, this could possibly be part of the problem.

Or another way to look at it.

You can decide what your child can or cannot read but…..you cannot decide for my child.

[Bill14564]

Or another way to look at it.

You can decide what your child can or cannot read but…..you cannot decide for my child.

This is the way things ought to be with just a few exceptions related to a well-rounded education.

[jimjamuser]

The good news: FL is the second best in the nation. Bad news: The entire country has failing schools.

Why is this such a problem? Why are today's youth unable to read or do math at grade level? I know Covid caused a setback, but this was going on prior, and continues after.
According to Forbes, the top 5 states for performance on standardized tests are Massachusetts, Utah, New Jersey, New Hampshire, and Connecticut.

[jimjamuser]

I just noticed (no surprise), that New Mexico at 21% had the lowest reading competency of all 50 states. Last I read only about 65% of children there graduate high school. I am saddened because it is my home state as I grew up there. I also still own and operate a business in NM so am firsthand all too familiar with the illiteracy and terrible crime rate.
There probably is a correlation between crime rate and low test scores.

[jimjamuser]

Many private schools are an out growth of religious organizations, teachers who see teaching as a calling. Parental involvement. School choice and selective enrollment that the teachers unions have no use for, it puts school performance under scrutiny. My son went through a selective enrollment high school a place with both parents and student had a very deferent attitude from the usual public high school . The Washington post has an article on how GPAs were up and SAT scores were down, that is the answer of the public school systems dominated by the teacher unions.
Teaching is a LOW paying occupation. At least, the Unions give them stability. The problem with US public schools is that their expenses are paid for and therefore tied to PROPERTY TAXES. Which rich property owners desire to keep low for their greed and benefit. They could care less if GOOD quality education would improve American life in general. They see only THEMSELVES as important.

[jimjamuser]

While it is convenient to blame teachers, education starts in the home and needs to be emphasized throughout the educational process. When the message from multiple sources makes education less important than sports, social media, etc., it isn’t surprising that our students are not performing well. From what I have observed, children from recent immigrants performed much better than average. In the home in which I was raised, my performance in school was a regular discussion. As a parent, I continued that tradition. Unfortunately, my kids haven’t been as diligent. I am guessing that is not happening much in the average home today.
Since about 1980 each newer generation reported that they have less opportunity than the older generation. Opportunity means in jobs after they get older than high school. The schools purpose is to PREPARE children for THEIR OPPORTUNITY that arrives after they are 17 or 18. I say that the schools are NOT the MAIN ones to blame. After 1980 many jobs were outsourced 1st to Mexico and then finally China. Because of this the US lost OPPORTUNITY AND China GAINED OPPORTUNITY. As a consequence Chinese Schools improved and the whole Chinese society improved while the US schools suffered and the US students KNEW they were losing OPPORTUNITY, so they studied less hard and became more interested in parties and sports for upward mobility (not many make it that way).
.........After 1980, schools decided that to keep rich people's taxes low that trades were TOO costly to teach in high schools. So those that might have SUCCEEDED in a vocational education class or school were FORCED to be in College Preparatory classes where they were like "fish out of water" and could NEVER succeed. They acted up in classrooms, which made problems for classmates that wanted to learn and the teachers. Then many of them became juvenile delinquents and worked their way up to more serious crimes and then eventually PRISON. Note: The US started building MORE prisons about that time.
.......As a result, since 1980 US unions have been decreasing in member numbers and power. And many European countries that do NOT link education to property taxes and pay their teachers well - have vastly outperformed US education.
........In summary, education is all wrong in the US, but outsourcing was an even greater problem.

[justjim]

OP, I don’t put the blame on public schools for students failing to make the “grade” so to speak. I don’t blame the teachers either. In short, PARENTS is where I put 90% of the blame. Parents is where it starts and where it ends.

[jimjamuser]

This survey (not the one originally cited by OP) provides part of the answer to the OP's original question, when you read the criteria for evaluation:

"WalletHub ranked each state's public schools for "Quality" and "Safety" using 33 relevant metrics. Metrics included high school graduation rate among low-income students, math and reading scores, median SAT and ACT scores, pupil-teach ratio, the share of armed students, the number of school shootings between 2000 and June 2020, bullying incidence rate, and more"

Some of these factors are good measures. Many others are NOT what I would consider to be measures of a "good school." They are factors brought in by the PC crowd with the intent of social engineering. It can even be reasonably argued that lack of safety in schools is a direct result of the PC attitudes, as others have noted above. And unfortunately, it is those same factors, used as measures of "learning," that have de-emphasized the core purposes of reading, writing, and arithmetic.
The Wallet hub criteria more correctly quantifies MODERN school situations. The 3 R's are old school thinking.

[jimjamuser]

Blame Parents Not Teachers.
The Covid shutdown is a sad excuse. Parents were home with their kids for months and could have been sitting down with them and reading to them and helping them read, one on one. Too many parents think it’s up to the teachers to teach, but really parents should be the primary teachers of their children. Reading to children for an hour or more every day from when they are about one leads to their eagerness to learn to read on their own. Shows like Sesame Street can teach a lot but don’t make up for parents reading aloud.

This isn’t a matter of money. There are lots of public libraries. There are books sales with books going for a dollar. The failure to read to children is found in prosperous homes as well as impoverished homes. It requires dedication of time by parents.

Later, it’s important to give kids time and incentive to read. Lots of kids spend so much time playing sports or hanging out with friends or texting or watching cute things on their phones that they don’t have time to read books.

I taught College English for about forty years. In most cases, the students who started class reading well were the ones whose parents helped them develop a habit of reading. Every time I surveyed the students, I discovered that about 10% of my college freshmen had never read an entire book outside of class assignments. Those were the students most likely to drop out. But I discovered that if I assigned exciting books, I could get them hooked on reading. So I gave up teaching Medieval Literature and started teaching Detective Fiction and The Thriller and Post-Apocalyptic Fiction and things like that to freshmen who needed a literature credit. It worked. But how much better for them if their parents had guided them.
That is a case of adapting the school to the NEEDS of the student. Unfortunately, in high school and below the needs of the student MUST conform to the needs (for low cost and low property taxes) of the school board.

[jimjamuser]

Why do certified teachers and tenured professors teach kids that they can choose their gender?
Why are they not fired for complete and total incompetence?
Our institutions have become totally corrupted to where home schooling is the only rational option.
Less than 1/3 of one per cent of children change their sex. The whole idea is over-magnified by certain sites.

[jimjamuser]

I may have missed something along the way here. What the Hxll is 'book banning'?

I am 100% for school choice, charter schools, and diminish the power of teacher unions. The USA pay SO much to 'support' public schools, with horrible results.
Many feel that European schools are better and UNIONS are not "bogey mans" in Germany. They are respected as they ONCE were (when America was really America) ( prior to 1970).

[jimjamuser]

Overindulgence of today's kids - who is overindulging them? THeir parents. Who taught those parents how to BE parents? THEIR parents. The buck stops with The Villages generation.

You created these parents, and now our country has to deal with the fallout.
The average parent did NOT decide that the US should outsource all its industry to China beginning in 1980. The upper 1% decided that and US society, industry, and schools suffered. Parents probably spend MORE TIME with their children today than in 1960. Because they can't go out and play a game of stickball or any game outside without getting shot. But the NRA........................

[jimbomaybe]

Teaching is a LOW paying occupation. At least, the Unions give them stability. The problem with US public schools is that their expenses are paid for and therefore tied to PROPERTY TAXES. Which rich property owners desire to keep low for their greed and benefit. They could care less if GOOD quality education would improve American life in general. They see only THEMSELVES as important.

The AVERAGE Chicago teacher makes about 145K according to the Illinois Policy Institute, it has been a long time , but when my kids were in school the private schools paid the teachers considerably less than what was current for public school teachers

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The age of the smartphone and schools allowing kids to have them in class.

Where are they getting these smartphones? I get that in today's violent culture where kids have to worry about getting shot to death in the classroom, phones are important. But flip-phones with just text and voice and no apps at all are totally sufficient. They don't need to own smart phones. Parents are buying them for their kids.

[Aces4]

Where are they getting these smartphones? I get that in today's violent culture where kids have to worry about getting shot to death in the classroom, phones are important. But flip-phones with just text and voice and no apps at all are totally sufficient. They don't need to own smart phones. Parents are buying them for their kids.

I agree, in fact, it may very well improve their child's grades in school if they were switched to limited flip phones.

[Aces4]

The average parent did NOT decide that the US should outsource all its industry to China beginning in 1980. The upper 1% decided that and US society, industry, and schools suffered. Parents probably spend MORE TIME with their children today than in 1960. Because they can't go out and play a game of stickball or any game outside without getting shot. But the NRA........................

I think this is out of touch with reality and a lot of anti-NRA propoganda.

[Aces4]

Many feel that European schools are better and UNIONS are not "bogey mans" in Germany. They are respected as they ONCE were (when America was really America) ( prior to 1970).

Unions were important at one time but the Union heads ruined it for everyone but they did live a fine life while it lasted.

[Aces4]

Or another way to look at it.

You can decide what your child can or cannot read but…..you cannot decide for my child.

Or another way to look at it: you cannot provide provocative material to your child in a public situation which exposes everyone else's child to the said material. You are welcome to expose your child to it at home, on your computer or at the public library, If you feel your child needs to be fed said material prior to the age of 18, go crazy... you won't be stopped.

Now wasn't that simple?

[mntlblok]

OP, I don’t put the blame on public schools for students failing to make the “grade” so to speak. I don’t blame the teachers either. In short, PARENTS is where I put 90% of the blame. Parents is where it starts and where it ends.

I'd go further than that and put a large chunk of the blame on human nature. Learning stuff requires some self discipline. Education is primarily something that you do to yourself, not something that is done "to" you. To avoid being able to read or do math at the fourth grade level, for most, would require some serious resistance, regardless of the source of the "teaching". I knew plenty of kids growing up whose parents did all they could to get performance out of them, but with minimal success. Looked a lot like genes to me. Motivating humans to do other than what they want is tough stuff.

I'm thinking that a lot of tax money and teacher headaches could be saved if public schooling would be offered through third or fourth grade - long enough to learn to read - and then supply all the kiddies with free laptops and internet access to Khan Academy and such.

Guess other arrangements for "child care" might be required. Those demonstrating self motivation (maybe with a parental nudge?) could be helped along as needed, but those kids that just wanted to copy your homework (we all remember those) could find other uses for their time - rather than disrupting the efforts of those who have found motivation, whatever its source. (Not wanting to stay poor worked for me). Have spoken with several teachers who were pulling their hair out over their administrators failing to allow *any* classroom discipline. Babysitting ought to be on those that chose to bring them into the world - with no plan beyond that bringage. Actions (should) have consequences.

A very small percentage of what I've learned came from formal schooling. Most of "school" felt a lot like being in prison (watching that clock) at worst, or being babysat at best. Reading at a fourth grade level is a pretty low bar. Not pulling that off says a lot about the "student", to me. Mass, expensive babysitting can't be doing much for society. Guess such a change couldn't get done over night, but leaning that way in the thinking is what would seem to make some sense to me.

[Aces4]

This is the way things ought to be with just a few exceptions related to a well-rounded education.

Please! No exceptions, teachers will expose children to whatever the teachers want promoted and how they want your children to think.

Kids go to college these days to be indoctrinated, instructors don't want to stop there. If you don't follow the public colleges dogma, you are outcast and life will be very difficult. To have to shut your mouth, keep your thoughts to yourself and run with your diploma to get away from it. This is from the mouths of recent college students, it's pervasive now.

[Bill14564]

Or another way to look at it: you cannot provide provocative material to your child in a public situation which exposes everyone else's child to the said material. You are welcome to expose your child to it at home, on your computer or at the public library, If you feel your child needs to be fed said material prior to the age of 18, go crazy... you won't be stopped.

Now wasn't that simple?

No, not simple at all. Well, perhaps it is easy to remove/censor any book that someone, anyone objects to - the lowest-common-denominator method.

I don't want anyone else parenting my child - that's my job.

[Pugchief]

Why do certified teachers and tenured professors teach kids that they can choose their gender? Because they can, and no one stops it.


Why are they not fired for complete and total incompetence? Unions


Our institutions have become totally corrupted to where home schooling is the only rational option. There a a few charter and private schools that are probably okay, but mostly true. Public schools are abject failures.

[Pugchief]

I taught College English for about forty years. In most cases, the students who started class reading well were the ones whose parents helped them develop a habit of reading. Every time I surveyed the students, I discovered that about 10% of my college freshmen had never read an entire book outside of class assignments. Those were the students most likely to drop out. But I discovered that if I assigned exciting books, I could get them hooked on reading. So I gave up teaching Medieval Literature and started teaching Detective Fiction and The Thriller and Post-Apocalyptic Fiction and things like that to freshmen who needed a literature credit. It worked. But how much better for them if their parents had guided them.

Man, I wish I'd had you as a teacher in HS and College. Most of the "classics" were so tedious and boring. I had an English teacher in 9th grade that had the class read Lord of the Rings and that was the best English class ever.

[Stu from NYC]

I think this is out of touch with reality and a lot of anti-NRA propoganda.

Agree with you 100%

[Pugchief]

Teaching is a LOW paying occupation.

I just don't get this logic. Teachers only work 9 months, not 12 like everyone else.

It also depends on the area. As someone else noted, there are teachers making well into the 6 figures, and don't forget about their taxpayer supported pensions.

[Pugchief]

The 3 R's are old school thinking.

I vehemently disagree. The 3 R's are essential. Maybe if more attention was paid to this instead of "new school thinking", these kids would be better prepared for life.

[Aces4]

That is a case of adapting the school to the NEEDS of the student. Unfortunately, in high school and below the needs of the student MUST conform to the needs (for low cost and low property taxes) of the school board.

One should involve themselves in schools and operation of them before blanket statements are made. School board members are some of the most underappreciated public servants out there and many go without pay for their services. Referendums after referendums are happening in many districts at this time just for operational expenses and the public won't pass the requests.

Everyone has their hand out for more money from the tax districts, to the power companies and every other service. People are tapped from subsidizing everything and everyone but their own local interests. Referendums are not inexpensive to run and that adds to the issue. The funniest thing I've ever seen is someone elected to the public school board who's children never set foot in a public school. He was the exception to the average school board member because he didn't want to spend a nickel.

Serve on a school board for a couple of terms and get back to us on how much fun it isn't.

[Pugchief]

Less than 1/3 of one per cent of children change their sex. The whole idea is over-magnified by certain sites.

Doesn't seem like much...until you realize that until a few years ago, it was orders of magnitude less.

[Pugchief]

Because they can't go out and play a game of stickball or any game outside without getting shot. But the NRA........................

Guns? No, I'm sure Climate Change is the real culprit. :icon_bored:

[Pugchief]

The AVERAGE Chicago teacher makes about 145K according to the Illinois Policy Institute, it has been a long time , but when my kids were in school the private schools paid the teachers considerably less than what was current for public school teachers

And it's going to be more. The Chicago Teacher's Union basically runs the city now. They also care more about social justice than teaching.

[Pugchief]

Where are they getting these smartphones? I get that in today's violent culture where kids have to worry about getting shot to death in the classroom, phones are important. But flip-phones with just text and voice and no apps at all are totally sufficient. They don't need to own smart phones. Parents are buying them for their kids.

This is the best point in 7 pages.

[Pugchief]

Unions were important at one time but the Union heads ruined it for everyone but they did live a fine life while it lasted.

Agree 100%. Unions have ruined public education.

[Aces4]

Someone has been watching too much Fox News (and believing it).

Then one should have help changing one's channel.

This is an example straight from high achieving college grads from a state college. They work in professional occupations now and are very pleasant, low key people describing their college days.

A blind eye won't help hide the truth.

[Aces4]

No, not simple at all. Well, perhaps it is easy to remove/censor any book that someone, anyone objects to - the lowest-common-denominator method.

I don't want anyone else parenting my child - that's my job.

I don't know if the word "censor" is comprehended in this situation. The book is not censored, your child may read it anytime you make it available to them outside the public school doors. It's not your responsibility to tell others how to raise their children which, obviously, is the goal here.

This is really a non-issue.

[spd2918]

...School board members are some of the most underappreciated public servants out there and many go without pay for their services. Referendums after referendums are happening in many districts...

School board members in my area are tools of the teacher's unions. Every year they want more and more, never offering a wage freeze of course. Grand new schools are built during times of decreasing enrollment (people are leaving because of the high taxes).

And they always cry: "It's for the children" while test scores drop.

Parents share responsibility with the teachers for low test scores and no work ethic. Wokeness...

[jimjamuser]

The AVERAGE Chicago teacher makes about 145K according to the Illinois Policy Institute, it has been a long time , but when my kids were in school the private schools paid the teachers considerably less than what was current for public school teachers
And some people think that it is a GOOD thing to pay public teachers well, but others think that it is a BAD thing. Florida public teachers today are the worst paid in the US.

[jimjamuser]

I just don't get this logic. Teachers only work 9 months, not 12 like everyone else.

It also depends on the area. As someone else noted, there are teachers making well into the 6 figures, and don't forget about their taxpayer supported pensions.
Teaching has ALWAYS been considered a low paying occupation. The SHOULD be accepted by definition. But. I will further explain it. A college graduate today has a choice, do they go to Wall St. or some other financial employer and work 8 hours per day and make $200,000 to start (Wall St.) or move to Florida and teach for $ 38,000 per year and work 2 jobs for 9 months and 3 jobs in the summer. And taking a chance that there are guns in the classroom. In Florida, an ex-G.I. without a degree can teach, but I doubt if Wall St . wants any of them.

[Aces4]

School board members in my area are tools of the teacher's unions. Every year they want more and more, never offering a wage freeze of course. Grand new schools are built during times of decreasing enrollment (people are leaving because of the high taxes).

And they always cry: "It's for the children" while test scores drop.

Parents share responsibility with the teachers for low test scores and no work ethic. Wokeness...


That's tough, no doubt. School board members are elected, why not remove them from office with the vote than leave town or the city?

[jimjamuser]

One should involve themselves in schools and operation of them before blanket statements are made. School board members are some of the most underappreciated public servants out there and many go without pay for their services. Referendums after referendums are happening in many districts at this time just for operational expenses and the public won't pass the requests.

Everyone has their hand out for more money from the tax districts, to the power companies and every other service. People are tapped from subsidizing everything and everyone but their own local interests. Referendums are not inexpensive to run and that adds to the issue. The funniest thing I've ever seen is someone elected to the public school board who's children never set foot in a public school. He was the exception to the average school board member because he didn't want to spend a nickel.

Serve on a school board for a couple of terms and get back to us on how much fun it isn't.
Many school board members are elected specifically to keep the taxes for big property owners DOWN.

[jimjamuser]

Doesn't seem like much...until you realize that until a few years ago, it was orders of magnitude less.
That's SOCIAL change. Schools are not affecting it one way or another. Its happening that way in England and Europe. The US is NOT special.

[jimjamuser]

Guns? No, I'm sure Climate Change is the real culprit. :icon_bored:
Young people in primary schools do worry about Climate Change because they are going to get all of the BAD effects - like bad air, poor crop production, over-population, forest fires, tornadoes, and hurricanes. We, the elderly, will soon be able to leave ALL our pollution behind us.

[jimjamuser]

And it's going to be more. The Chicago Teacher's Union basically runs the city now. They also care more about social justice than teaching.
Nowhere are the Teacher Unions powerful enough to affect even a tiny part of a city's business. Maybe in Europe, but I doubt it.

[jimjamuser]

I don't know if the word "censor" is comprehended in this situation. The book is not censored, your child may read it anytime you make it available to them outside the public school doors. It's not your responsibility to tell others how to raise their children which, obviously, is the goal here.

This is really a non-issue.
The school librarian should decide what books are appropriate, not the state.

[Bogie Shooter]

The school librarian should decide what books are appropriate, not the state.
And not #&+% for liberty…

[tophcfa]

Teaching has ALWAYS been considered a low paying occupation. The SHOULD be accepted by definition. But. I will further explain it. A college graduate today has a choice, do they go to Wall St. or some other financial employer and work 8 hours per day and make $200,000 to start (Wall St.) or move to Florida and teach for $ 38,000 per year and work 2 jobs for 9 months and 3 jobs in the summer.

Reality check. It is delusional to think the average college student has a choice between those two options, unless they have some serious connections. A very small fraction of college graduates would even be considered by Wall Street firms. Unless one has a degree in something like finance, economists, advanced mathematics or statistics, from a very prestigious University, and graduates at or close to the top of their class, getting a prestigious Wall Street position is close to impossible.

[NoMoSno]

In Florida, an ex-G.I. without a degree can teach

Not true.
do florida schools require a degree to teach - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=do+florida+schools+require+a+degree+to+teach)

[manaboutown]

Do you think the influx of immigrants in the New Mexico schools who are testing and graduating are included in the statistics may be part of the reason New Mexico's numbers are so low?
Not being sarcastic or xenophobic, just wondering if that may be a factor...

New Mexico is a border state but so are California, Arizona and Texas which had 30-31% reading competently at grade level vs. NM's 21%. While I do not know I am under the impression CA and TX receive a far greater number of immigrants as a percentage of their populations than does NM so the burden on them is likely greater.

I recall speaking with an Albuquerque assistant middle school vice principal 30 years ago. Her school was in a historically low income area, heavily hispanic, but native-born descendants of settlers from Spain during the 16th and 17th centuries, not immigrant hispanic. When I asked her how many of the children in her school came from two parent households she could not name one. Many if not most did not even live with a single parent but with grandparents, an older brother or sister, aunt or uncle. It was a good thing I was sitting down as I was shocked.

Multiple factors are driving the decline IMHO. The breakdown of family is just one. In 1958-1959 I took a HS US history course from a mediocre at best teacher. We were assigned homework in the form of a chapter to read from the textbook. Nothing to write so he would not have to review and grade paperwork. Then in class he would simply read the material we were assigned from the textbook, no Q&A, no discussion. At the beginning of the year he announced it did not matter which political party our parents belonged to as by the end of the school year we would all be _____________(fill in the blank). Midyear he proudly announced that a teachers' union had been formed and he had been an initiator of it.

A huge problem is that children are no long taught the three Rs. That is why test results are so abysmal. Instead, teaching time is spent indoctrinating cultish beliefs into tender young minds - and much worse as we all know.

The quality of many of today's teachers appalls me. They can't read, write or do arithmetic themselves.

Then the social media and illicit drugs play a part. sigh.

[Bill14564]

Not true.
do florida schools require a degree to teach - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=do+florida+schools+require+a+degree+to+teach)

Wrong link. Try this one (https://www.fldoe.org/veterans/) and note the bolded phrase in the very first paragraph.

[MaryMS]

Schools are ruled by School Boards of Education. Many Board members have little knowledge about education, but lots of political opinions about it. .

[Pugchief]

Nowhere are the Teacher Unions powerful enough to affect even a tiny part of a city's business. Maybe in Europe, but I doubt it.

LOL, you are sooo wrong.
Read this: Wall Street Journal (https://archive.ph/ORsGp)

And now the new mayor is a former CTU member.

[Aces4]

Many school board members are elected specifically to keep the taxes for big property owners DOWN.

That's interesting, please share the reference used for that statement.

[NoMoSno]

Wrong link. Try this one (https://www.fldoe.org/veterans/) and note the bolded phrase in the very first paragraph.
Read further:
"They must also earn their bachelor’s degree during the 5-year period"

[Bill14564]

Read further:
"They must also earn their bachelor’s degree during the 5-year period"

Eventually they will need a degree to continue teaching, or they can quit. But in those first few years, in Florida an ex-G.I. without a degree can teach.

[Aces4]

The school librarian should decide what books are appropriate, not the state.

Baloney, parents should decide what provocative reading material shall be available to their children at what age.

And some wonder why parents are fleeing public schools with their children to seek private schooling for them.

That mantra sounds great until the wonderful librarian has a gripe or political view to push and it's not at all what you would like. You'd be in a different frame of mind at that point.

[Topspinmo]

Teaching is a LOW paying occupation. At least, the Unions give them stability. The problem with US public schools is that their expenses are paid for and therefore tied to PROPERTY TAXES. Which rich property owners desire to keep low for their greed and benefit. They could care less if GOOD quality education would improve American life in general. They see only THEMSELVES as important.

Guess you forgot about billions lotteries being into public education. NO lottery money should be going to collages, trade schools yes, cause they actually produce a skill level. Did lottery billions make different? Guess not.

[Topspinmo]

Sadly, I agree 100%. Overindulgence of this generation of kids will hurt them more than the parents realize. How can kids understand they will have to work hard for anything they want as adults if everything comes so easily now?

Another problems are, can’t stay of social media, video games, and majority have no responsibility.

[JMintzer]

Or another way to look at it.

You can decide what your child can or cannot read but…..you cannot decide for my child.

Public libraries are everywhere as well as book stores. Parents can have their children read whatever they wish... Just not while in the classroom...

Problem (for you) solved...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Or another way to look at it: you cannot provide provocative material to your child in a public situation which exposes everyone else's child to the said material. You are welcome to expose your child to it at home, on your computer or at the public library, If you feel your child needs to be fed said material prior to the age of 18, go crazy... you won't be stopped.

Now wasn't that simple?

So then you agree that the Holy Bible, both old and new testament, should not be made available in any public school. Also make sure the Star Spangled Banner is never sung in any public school - that's a lot of talk about violence - bombs bursting in air - talk about provocative, amirite?

OR

Teach children critical thinking. So you don't have to nanny-state their widdle minds when they should be learning things.

[Pairadocs]

Reading, writing and arithmetic should be the focus...not which pronoun to use, gender reassignment, etc.

Gradual decline, extremely complex, no easy, quick, solution. Any of the following could help, but would not cure: ban cell phones from classrooms for both teachers and students (some will come back with how teachers MUST be able to communicate with their own children, spouses or partners, but honestly there was a way once they let a classroom teachers know if there was an emergency in his/her own family. Would be very unpopular, but the old system of truant officers who found wayward students and delivered them to their classrooms did at least expose them to education. With no cell phone to entertain them, eventually they might even join in a class discussion/lesson. FINES for parents who make no effort to enforce the mandatory attendance rules HABITUALLY (not try to fine every parent whose child skipped school once) fail to cooperate. Perhaps make 12 years of public education MANDATORY would significantly raise the literacy rate of the entire country. No drops out under age of 18 would be another. No driver's licenses issues to those who are under 18 and have NOT finished the mandatory education requirement. Restoring classes such as metal shop, wood shop, auto mechanics, business, commercial food preparation, or similar in high school rather than "hope" students will go to community college or trade school ? REQUIRED community service projects for all high school students, their choice, but volunteer hours that count as a class and allow students to gradually develop the self-esteem so many lack, by contributing to society. In most cases I believe uniformity of dress makes a contribution to the learning environment, there are literally hundreds of steps that don't increase costs (other than truant officers added to local authorities) that could begin to build an outstanding public education system.