Living in a floodplain

[Rainger99]

This weekend, I watched several YouTube videos of the damage caused by Helene.

The damage in Tennessee and North Carolina was devastating. It appeared that the vast majority of the damage was caused by rivers overflowing. The damage will be in the billions.

If you are living in a floodplain should you be banned from rebuilding in the floodplain but instead be required to move to higher ground?

Or if not banned, should you not be allowed to buy insurance?

https://www.floridadisaster.org/globalassets/quick-guide-for-floodplain-management.pdf

[Topspinmo]

This weekend, I watched several YouTube videos of the damage caused by Helene.

The damage in Tennessee and North Carolina was devastating. It appeared that the vast majority of the damage was caused by rivers overflowing. The damage will be in the billions.

If you are living in a floodplain should you be banned from rebuilding in the floodplain but instead be required to move to higher ground?

Or if not banned, should you not be allowed to buy insurance?

https://www.floridadisaster.org/globalassets/quick-guide-for-floodplain-management.pdf


Same goes for any costal town, only Rv parks should be allowed right on sea. IMO only town wiped out after insurance should be brought by state and no permanent building allowed. At in RV park you can hook up and pull RV out harms way. In mountainous areas only pace for town in valley. Same goes you build at River level if going to flood eventually.

[asianthree]

But were they in a flood plain, or is house higher than the designated flood code?

Oldest in Greenville SC isn’t in a flood zone, but thousands of homes were severely damaged by trees sheared off and falling on houses, from either straight winds, bands from Helene, or possible tornado spin off.
Then 17” of rain in short period of time, causing severe interior water damage, to many homes. Some homes may not end up not being repaired because some insurance companies, may consider it damage from flood, or no coverage since policies may not carry hurricane insurance.

Their NC 6yo home is 1.3 miles from intercostal, then barrier island. They are not in a flood zone, with 15’ above sea level, and 2 acre catch basin 10’ lower than their home. They do however carry a high deductible flood policy, have wind mitigation and roof is prorated for repair if damaged. Every storm seems to arrive in their area, yet expect for road and bridges, no damage to neighborhood for 10 years.

[Decadeofdave]

Aren't floodplains rated?
50 year, 100 year etc.
Gives you and insurance a risk assessment

[asianthree]

Aren't floodplains rated?
50 year, 100 year etc.
Gives you and insurance a risk assessment

If the zone is later developed, the zone has a new risk assessment, for improvement to property. Once evaluation is complete the zone can stay at say 100year, or no longer be classified as a flood zone. Then it’s up to the insurance company to reevaluate the policies

[Topspinmo]

Why do we get insurance? Something happens beyond or control LIKE natural disasters, shouldn’t have flood insurance, hurricane, sinkhole, earthquake, ect… all natural disasters beyond person control (If you build on flat coast or at river level that’s on you). IMO there should be no pullout of insurance in state. Insurance insures all or none. Insurance don’t want insure it state then the don’t insure in United States,

[ithos]

What are the chances that TV could have a similar level of flooding in a hurricane that dropped 20 inches of rain? I understand that the problems in the inland regions were made worse because of the mountains and failure of damns.

Photo from Asheville

[coleprice]

The Government passing draconian laws is NOT THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING! People living in flood plains should have to either buy flood insurance, which may be extremely expensive for them, or self insure. If they self insure and their home is wrecked by a flood, then they may loose everything. The Government (Tax Payers) should only provide very short term assistance after a disaster and should stop pouring billions of dollars into rebuilding areas that are destroyed every time that an anticipatable natural disaster occurs.

[Marmaduke]

Furthermore, the rivers are cresting and more flooding is expected during the next 3 days in many cities according to this mornings weather Channel reports.
Here's the thing-
Mist if these cities that are expecting flooding are not in the flood zones.
Not in the 100 year flood plain.

[dtennent]

If the zone is later developed, the zone has a new risk assessment, for improvement to property. Once evaluation is complete the zone can stay at say 100year, or no longer be classified as a flood zone. Then it’s up to the insurance company to reevaluate the policies
In my experience in upstate NY living in a river town, the Federal government determines whether an area is within a flood plain. Local zoning regulations determine what can be built and where. About 10-12 years ago, there was a revision to the hundred year flood plain enlarging it considerably. For the folks living in the enlarged area, insurance rates went up.

[MandoMan]

What are the chances that TV could have a similar level of flooding in a hurricane that dropped 20 inches of rain? I understand that the problems in the inland regions were made worse because of the mountains and failure of damns.

Photo from Asheville

When we had 12 inches in a day a few years back, thanks to the excellent civil engineering here, the houses stayed dry. 20”? It’s possible some houses would flood. In many cases, though, before that happened, a number of golf courses would turn into lakes, as they are designed for that. We’ve had water blocking golf cart paths on courses, but never the entire course turned into a lake.

[Altavia]

Here's a 2018 presentation on our Storm Water Management System.

https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUpload/Storm%20Water.pdf

[Cliff Fr]

What are the chances that TV could have a similar level of flooding in a hurricane that dropped 20 inches of rain? I understand that the problems in the inland regions were made worse because of the mountains and failure of damns.

Photo from Asheville

The Florida sand helps us a lot in inland areas. Florida's coastal regions were long ago bulldozed and filled in. Before that happened a lot of the coast was mostly marsh and wetlands. That acted as a buffer to absorb storm surge. Miami Beach used to be a swamp and marsh area.

[goneil2024]

Flood Insurance Rate Maps (FIRMs) are developed and published by FEMA, they show where the expected flood zones are at the time the map was developed/published. Municipalities are given the opportunity to develop flood mitigation plans that if adopted can make Federally subsidized flood insurance available to property owners in that community. There is a wealth of information about current flood zones available on the FEMA website, as well as digital maps, and where to obtain coverage. Also, a tool for you to simply enter your street address and find out what flood zone a property is in.

According to the Federal Flood act federally guaranteed loans where the property is situated in the 100-year flood zone must obtain some form or flood insurance. Unfortunately, most of us stop there, and if we are not required to purchase coverage we often do not. However, as we have seen in recent decades severe weather events often cause flooding well beyond the 100-year flood zones.

The reality is that every property is in a flood zone, and there are many levels [A, B, C, X, X-, V] and given constant development, changing weather patterns, shifts in hydrology and other factors many properties may be exposed to a higher risk of flooding than they realize.

What is the solution? No silver bullets I fear, - - however, since the federal act was passed in 1968, National Flood Insurance has been available in participating communities. If it’s available and affordable it’s worth checking out, self-insurance (planned retention of the peril(s) of flood) might only be for those who have the financial ability to sustain the loss (few if any individual homeowners have this ability) so a last resort is avoid owning property in high risk areas, …………. After that there are no simple options so, identify, quantify, evaluate and act or take no actionion.

[BrianL99]

Aren't floodplains rated?
50 year, 100 year etc.
Gives you and insurance a risk assessment

If the zone is later developed, the zone has a new risk assessment, for improvement to property. Once evaluation is complete the zone can stay at say 100year, or no longer be classified as a flood zone. Then it’s up to the insurance company to reevaluate the policies


"Flood Plain" is generally considered any area that has a 1% chance of flooding (once in 100 years), based on their elevation. The boundaries can be changed, when additional information is developed for a specific area. It is considered an "A" area and anyone with a mortgage from a federally backed or regulated bank is required to have FEMA Flood Insurance.

"V Areas" are known as Velocity Zones, and are also required to have FEMA Flood insurance. They don't necessarily have a designated elevation, but are subject to coastal storm conditions. Same as above, required to have Flood Insurance.

An over simplification, but the basics.

One of the problems, is the FEMA maps aren't updated as regularly as required by law, because of budget constraints. Many FEMA maps haven't been updated since the 70's.

[Rainger99]

Here's a 2018 presentation on our Storm Water Management System.

https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUpload/Storm%20Water.pdf

This is interesting. Does anyone know if there has been an update in the past 6 years?

[DonnaNi4os]

Aren't floodplains rated?
50 year, 100 year etc.
Gives you and insurance a risk assessment

You are correct. But we are now getting “Biblical” storms so how do you access a risk like that? If you are told you live in a 100 year flood plain, it means the likelihood of flooding is slim. But Mother Nature seems to be making her own odds. It’s very scary.

[Michael 61]

You are correct. But we are now getting “Biblical” storms so how do you access a risk like that? If you are told you live in a 100 year flood plain, it means the likelihood of flooding is slim. But Mother Nature seems to be making her own odds. It’s very scary.

LOL - we are NOT getting “biblical” floods and storms.

[Dlbonivich]

Look up Hurricane Harvey, before you say you shouldn’t be able to build on the coast or anywhere where it floods. A hurricane stalls over a metropolitan area dumps rain and 95% of homes were not required to have flood insurance. Everything flooded. I have had flood insurance on all my homes in Florida, required or not.

[asianthree]

LOL - we are NOT getting “biblical” floods and storms.



So far I haven’t watched any of the “bodies of sinners floating by, that were feed to the lions on the ark” “My little lion chow” from Mary Cooper, Sheldons Mom, Big Bang Theory

“What did they feed the lions Mother” Sheldon Cooper

[kkingston57]

Aren't floodplains rated?
50 year, 100 year etc.
Gives you and insurance a risk assessment

Seems like those #s are obsolete. Big Bend area has been hit 3 times in last 13 months. How many Cat 3 or higher have been in Gulf over past several years with rapid intensification?

[kkingston57]

Why do we get insurance? Something happens beyond or control LIKE natural disasters, shouldn’t have flood insurance, hurricane, sinkhole, earthquake, ect… all natural disasters beyond person control (If you build on flat coast or at river level that’s on you). IMO there should be no pullout of insurance in state. Insurance insures all or none. Insurance don’t want insure it state then the don’t insure in United States,

To answer your question most have insurance because banks/mortgage companies want protection on their loan and it is required. Problem(s) are going to get worse in Florida in the future, since most development is at or near the coast. Gulf of Mexico has always been warm and it is not going to get any cooler

[kkingston57]

When we had 12 inches in a day a few years back, thanks to the excellent civil engineering here, the houses stayed dry. 20”? It’s possible some houses would flood. In many cases, though, before that happened, a number of golf courses would turn into lakes, as they are designed for that. We’ve had water blocking golf cart paths on courses, but never the entire course turned into a lake.

Also TV is one of the higher points in Florida.

[kkingston57]

LOL - we are NOT getting “biblical” floods and storms.

How about record floods?

[sounding]

How about record floods?

All floods were bigger in the past. How do you think valleys were created in the first place? It wasn't due to gentle rains -- it was due to repeated flash floods. Nature continually builds mountains -- and the tears them down. No one ever said life on earth would be fun or easy -- but it is better than on Mars or Venus.

[Michael 61]

How about record floods?

Last time I read the Bible, God caused the entire earth to be flooded - that was a “biblical” flood - I haven’t’ seen any “biblical” floods in my lifetime.

[Altavia]

This is interesting. Does anyone know if there has been an update in the past 6 years?

Not that I can find.

They seem to be using the same formula south of 44.Homesites are raised 6/8 ft relative to prior elevation with earth from the golf courses and ponds. The major retention ponds around Middleton/Eastport are larger.

Streets and yards will flood before homes in most cases giving huge backup capacity.

One of the challenges here is the very little outflow. Most everything needs to be retained until it evaporates or is absorbed into the aquifer.

[Rodneysblue]

This weekend, I watched several YouTube videos of the damage caused by Helene.

The damage in Tennessee and North Carolina was devastating. It appeared that the vast majority of the damage was caused by rivers overflowing. The damage will be in the billions.

If you are living in a floodplain should you be banned from rebuilding in the floodplain but instead be required to move to higher ground?

Or if not banned, should you not be allowed to buy insurance?

https://www.floridadisaster.org/globalassets/quick-guide-for-floodplain-management.pdf
So going along this line of thought places that have hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, and blizzards should not be insured or inhabited.

[Rainger99]

So going along this line of thought places that have hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, and blizzards should not be insured or inhabited.

No. Tornadoes and blizzards can hit almost anywhere. I don’t know of any maps showing tornado plains or blizzard plains. Tornados usually are confined to small areas and are unpredictable. Blizzards are more widespread but I have never seen blizzard damage as devastating as flood damage.

As to earthquakes, you probably shouldn’t live on or near a fault line.

There is a reason they call them floodplains. It is because they will flood on a regular basis and you can define the area that will be flooded.

[Babubhat]

FEMA has mapped only one-third of America’s floodplains, according to the Association of State Floodplain Managers.

Moreover, most FEMA maps don’t consider pluvial flooding, or flooding from rain. That’s likely one reason why flood-insurance takeup away from the coasts is negligible. In many inland counties in the Southeast and Appalachia, coverage under the federal program stands at 2.5% or lower, according to an analysis of federal data by reinsurance brokerage Guy Carpenter.

Helene Dumps Rain on Millions of US Homes That Lack Flood Insurance (https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2024/09/30/794787.htm)

Why Finishing the Nation’s Flood Maps Is More Critical Than Ever (https://www.floods.org/news-views/from-the-directors-desk/why-finishing-the-nations-flood-maps-is-more-critical-than-ever/)

[asianthree]

There are insurance companies in NC and SC that policy has

“Named storms are covered”

so this may be a possibility for coverage of damage homes that aren’t in a flood plain, so fema insurance is not required. Or Hurricane insurance was not offered due to inland proximity.
Then again the 14” of rain plus run off from the mountains, 2 days prior to Helene, may have pushed the non flood areas into the devastation those states are experiencing.

It will be interesting to see how many companies have Coverage for Named Storms. Our northern insurance lists tornadoes, wind shear, and other perals but “named storm” is not in our policy content

[Shipping up to Boston]

Agree with earlier post....the civil engineering in TV is the real genius of this developer. Only Disney rivals this developers ‘ground game’!

[bshuler]

A little reality. I am closing on a new designer home in Shady Brook next week.
Before I can go to closing I must have a documented and PRE-PAID 12 month flood insurance policy. Much of Moultrie Creek and Shady Brook are Zone AE.

Cost: $1245 for one year

I am told the FEMA maps will be updated within a year or two.

[Rainger99]

Cost: $1245 for one year

I am told the FEMA maps will be updated within a year or two.

Who told you the maps would be updated? Do you believe them? What was their source?

[BrianL99]

A little reality. I am closing on a new designer home in Shady Brook next week.
Before I can go to closing I must have a documented and PRE-PAID 12 month flood insurance policy. Much of Moultrie Creek and Shady Brook are Zone AE.

Cost: $1245 for one year

I am told the FEMA maps will be updated within a year or two.

You don't have to wait. There is a process available to change the designation. It usually takes about 90 days.

Change Your Flood Zone Designation | FEMA.gov (https://www.fema.gov/flood-maps/change-your-flood-zone)

[Taltarzac725]

A floating home could be an idea for some of the Mississippi River area as long as it is very well anchored. Think someone is designing floating cities in the Maldives. Or a floating Village.

[BrianL99]

Agree with earlier post....the civil engineering in TV is the real genius of this developer. Only Disney rivals this developers ‘ground game’!

I'm not sure Disney is even close. At Disney, the majority of the active land area is paved (or impervious). This makes it much easier to direct drainage to where you want it to go. Then you just collect it, clean it & disperse it.

In TV. there are vast areas of open/natural land. It's much harder to control where the water goes, when you have to rely on natural (or created) slopes and impoundment areas, to say nothing of protecting 80,000 homes from flooding.

One interesting quirk with the TV drainage design, is a prohibition against moving water between counties. Every drop of water has to remain in the county it originated from, it can't be moved across a county line. That makes for some real challenges on properties near county borders.

The sophistication of the TV drainage design and operation, is mind boggling.

[Shipping up to Boston]

I'm not sure Disney is even close. At Disney, the majority of the active land area is paved (or impervious). This makes it much easier to direct drainage to where you want it to go. Then you just collect it, clean it & disperse it.

In TV. there are vast areas of open/natural land. It's much harder to control where the water goes, when you have to rely on natural (or created) slopes and impoundment areas, to say nothing of protecting 80,000 homes from flooding.

One interesting quirk with the TV drainage design, is a prohibition against moving water between counties. Every drop of water has to remain in the county it originated from, it can't be moved across a county line. That makes for some real challenges on properties near county borders.

The sophistication of the TV drainage design and operation, is mind boggling.

It really is amazing. You intentionally design your golf courses with the dual purpose of ‘drowning’ them with flood waters and when it dries out, continue to showcase to prospective buyers as eye candy. I always say the developer should speak at Wharton on the business model...but he would be equally effective at MIT or other equal institution of engineering!