Scary stuff

[tophcfa]

Was watching the Weather Channel and they did an information piece on the extreme dangers of lithium batteries and flooding in costal areas. Apparently, after hurricane Helene, and with Milton approaching the gulf coast, this is hot topic (no pun intended). They reported that when salt water comes into contact with lithium batteries, it creates a chemical reaction that causes the batteries to combust. The below picture shows an electric vehicle that suddenly started on fire after flood water entered the garage, resulting on the entire home getting totaled. It stated that there is no amount of water that will extinguish the fire and that this puts neighbors and first responders in a very dangerous situation. They also speculated that insurance companies will soon be charging significant risk premiums to customers living in costal areas who have lithium powered cars, golf carts, e-bikes, etc…, or possibly putting a carve out clause into homeowners policies that specifically state coverage is void from fires caused by lithium batteries. Scary stuff indeed. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Bill14564]

Was watching the Weather Channel and they did an information piece on the extreme dangers of lithium batteries and flooding in costal areas. Apparently, after hurricane Helene, and with Milton approaching the gulf coast, this is hot topic (no pun intended). They reported that when salt water comes into contact with lithium batteries, it creates a chemical reaction that causes the batteries to combust. The below picture shows an electric vehicle that suddenly started on fire after flood water entered the garage, resulting on the entire home getting totaled. It stated that there is no amount of water that will extinguish the fire and that this puts neighbors and first responders in a very dangerous situation. They also speculated that insurance companies will soon be charging significant risk premiums to customers living in costal areas who have lithium powered cars, golf carts, e-bikes, etc…, or possibly putting a carve out clause into homeowners policies that specifically state coverage is void from fires caused by lithium batteries. Scary stuff indeed. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Of all the things I have to think about with a storm coming, this is extremely low on my list. Now, if I was at all at risk for salt water flooding….but I’m not.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yeah - consider everyone with an electric CAR - all those Teslas and Priuses and whatever other brands are common along the coast. How many of them have exploded during Helene? I haven't read a single news report about it happening. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you'd think if it was a big problem it would've made the news by now.

[tophcfa]

Yeah - consider everyone with an electric CAR - all those Teslas and Priuses and whatever other brands are common along the coast. How many of them have exploded during Helene? I haven't read a single news report about it happening. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you'd think if it was a big problem it would've made the news by now.

It’s in the news and is readily available if one looks. In Pinellas County, St. Petersburg is opening up parking garages and offering free parking for Electric Vehicles as Milton approaches to avoid the fires that were caused by flood waters during Helene. They are encouraging EV owners to park their vehicles in the third floor or higher if at all possible and are allowing cars to remain there for free until Saturday. They state that this is necessary because salt water and lithium batteries do not mix and pose a significant risk to first responders.

[Velvet]

You are so correct about lithium batteries and there is also child labor involved and disposal problems with them. But people like to feel like they are doing something good for the planet and reason and facts don’t mean much when you are confronting emotions.

[Spectreron]

You do know that EVs catch fire less often than ICE vehicles (Google it).
Most of the garage fires are being started by electric bikes, scooters, etc. that have far less sophisticated battery management systems than EVs.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

You do know that EVs catch fire less often than ICE vehicles

Its not about the frequency, its about the intensity and the inability to quickly extinguish a chemical fire. Many times, fire departments have to let chemical fires, car batteries, burn themselves out, which creates other issues.

[FloridaGuy66]

It's probably worth noting that almost all current EV cars, EV lawn equipment, and EV golf carts in the US use Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFEPO4), not the old style Lithium Ion that came out in the 1990's and can react violently with salt.

The LiFEPO4 batteries do not.

LiFEPO4 batteries are actually what many modern yachts use for backup power.

[Altavia]

First responders are starting to use fire blankets to extinguish EV fires.

Car | Bridgehill Fire Blankets (https://bridgehill.com/fire-blankets/car/)

[shut the front door]

Yeah - consider everyone with an electric CAR - all those Teslas and Priuses and whatever other brands are common along the coast. How many of them have exploded during Helene? I haven't read a single news report about it happening. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you'd think if it was a big problem it would've made the news by now.

A simple google search would tell you: The Division of State Fire Marshal has so far confirmed 16 lithium-ion battery fires as a result of Hurricane Helene, with six of those caused by EVs. They believe these numbers are underreported and are gathering more data.

[JustSomeGuy]

It's probably worth noting that almost all current EV cars, EV lawn equipment, and EV golf carts in the US use Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFEPO4), not the old style Lithium Ion that came out in the 1990's and can react violently with salt.

The LiFEPO4 batteries do not.

LiFEPO4 batteries are actually what many modern yachts use for backup power.

Looks like the Tesla 3 and Y are coming standard with it this year 2024(not 1990's) but due to limited range not many other cars or the rest of the Tesla's. I see Kia Kona EV4 and Iconic ev3 have it this year. Weight seems to be big drag on range.... where are you seeing that almost all since the 1990's have them?
Current 2024 Prius is lithium-ion according to their website tonight.

[ithos]

Yeah - consider everyone with an electric CAR - all those Teslas and Priuses and whatever other brands are common along the coast. How many of them have exploded during Helene? I haven't read a single news report about it happening. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you'd think if it was a big problem it would've made the news by now.

Most of the affected areas were in rural areas. Not many chargers so they are not practical. There will probably not be that many EV fires during this hurricane because the issue is well known and owners will leave them high up in parking garages

The biggest risk will be if they get stranded while trying to evacuate.

[Margefrog]

Someone will soon invent a flexible, wrappable, waterproof enclosure for lithium battery cars. Roll car on, zip up. Done.

[jamesdschramm]

I installed a Lithium battery in my ATV and just sitting in my garage the very next day it caught on fire. See attached files

[ElDiabloJoe]

You are so correct about lithium batteries and there is also child labor involved and disposal problems with them. But people like to feel like they are doing something good for the planet and reason and facts don’t mean much when you are confronting emotions.

^Concur. 100%. Adding in the phenomenal environmental disaster that mining for lithium causes. The dichotomy of Emotion vs Common Sense is probably the cause of 90% of peoples' philosophical and idealogical differences.

[jimjamuser]

Yeah - consider everyone with an electric CAR - all those Teslas and Priuses and whatever other brands are common along the coast. How many of them have exploded during Helene? I haven't read a single news report about it happening. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you'd think if it was a big problem it would've made the news by now.
Scientists are working to design a safer battery for E-vehicles. Development to improve gasoline engines has NEVER stopped. The same thing will happen with E-vehicles, which are in their developmental infancy.

[JMintzer]

Scientists are working to design a safer battery for E-vehicles. Development to improve gasoline engines has NEVER stopped. The same thing will happen with E-vehicles, which are in their developmental infancy.

So you admit that they are still in their infancy, but insist everyone should buy one...

How odd...