Life expectancy for HVAC system in The Villages?

[GreggC69]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

[retiredguy123]

15 years. I don't think the cost increase will be as high as you have heard.

[Bill14564]

HVAC tech told me 14 years but added that it’s not worth replacing until it needs a major repair. The air handler motor or defrost control board, while expensive, were not the major repairs he meant.

[tophcfa]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

Our is 17 years old and running good. What are these changes coming out next year that will significantly increase replacement costs and what is your source?

[BrianL99]

Our is 17 years old and running good. What are these changes coming out next year that will significantly increase replacement costs and what is your source?

As of January 1, new Refrigerant will be phased in.

What to Know About the 2025 HVAC Refrigerant Change - Air Conditioning Blog - Rheem Manufacturing Company (https://www.rheem.com/air-conditioning/articles/what-to-know-about-the-2025-hvac-refrigerant-change/)

[villagetinker]

Key word "phased" in, this has been done several times over the years, and the existing refrigerants will still be available for 10 or 20 years, you can still by R22. I would not be too concerned, just beware of the installer hype.

[BrianL99]

Key word "phased" in, this has been done several times over the years, and the existing refrigerants will still be available for 10 or 20 years, you can still by R22. I would not be too concerned, just beware of the installer hype.

It is illegal to manufacture or import R22 into the US. It has been, since 2020.

There is still *some* legacy supply being reclaimed, but it's getting harder to find and ridiculously expensive. I just paid $150/lb installed, in Boston.

[rjm1cc]

My A/C outside unit lasted about 10 years. Up north I got over 15 years. Try 8 to 14 as a guess for FL.

[Topspinmo]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

Till A coil rusts out and starts leaking. In my case took 21 years. My new carrier system cost 8300. About 14 months ago.

[GreggC69]

The changes were related to the refrigerant changes I believe. Was from a tech who was servicing our mini split. Indicated that a replacement cost for a unit like we have now is about 9-10K (a higher end unit) and beginning next year would start at 11K for a lower end unit and higher end would be about 13K.

[retiredguy123]

The changes were related to the refrigerant changes I believe. Was from a tech who was servicing our mini split. Indicated that a replacement cost for a unit like we have now is about 9-10K (a higher end unit) and beginning next year would start at 11K for a lower end unit and higher end would be about 13K.
Technicians often make statements to sound knowledgeable, when they really don't have any actual information to support what they are saying. I don't know how the new rules will affect the cost of new HVAC systems, but I don't think the technician does either. The cost of HVAC systems is based more on marketing, than on the cost of the refrigerant alone.

[TSO/ISPF]

The changes were related to the refrigerant changes I believe. Was from a tech who was servicing our mini split. Indicated that a replacement cost for a unit like we have now is about 9-10K (a higher end unit) and beginning next year would start at 11K for a lower end unit and higher end would be about 13K.
What vendor did the Tech work for?

[retiredguy123]

It is illegal to manufacture or import R22 into the US. It has been, since 2020.

There is still *some* legacy supply being reclaimed, but it's getting harder to find and ridiculously expensive. I just paid $150/lb installed, in Boston.
It is illegal to manufacture some older refrigerants, but it is also illegal to dispose of refrigerants when removing an older HVAC unit. They must be accounted for and recycled.

[BrianL99]

The changes were related to the refrigerant changes I believe. Was from a tech who was servicing our mini split. Indicated that a replacement cost for a unit like we have now is about 9-10K (a higher end unit) and beginning next year would start at 11K for a lower end unit and higher end would be about 13K.

I'm replacing a mini-split in NH, this week. It's a Fujitsu and produces heat when the outside is as low as -5F. 15,400 BTU's. $4900, installed.

[retiredguy123]

I'm replacing a mini-split in NH, this week. It's a Fujitsu and produces heat when the outside is as low as -5F. 15,400 BTU's. $4900, installed.
I didn't interpret the prices in the post to necessarily apply to mini split units. The post was not clear as to whether the tech was estimating a mini split or a whole house system.

[Babufrick]

YouTube has many videos about the change. Refrigerant changes are never good price wise. Look at the YF car example. Paid 55 dollars for a small can. Around 10x the old cost per can

[tophcfa]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

Thanks for the heads up. This is important information for anyone whose system is nearing the end of its useful life. I called our HVAC company and was told to expect a minimum 25% price increase starting in 2025. This information most definitely has changed my mind about trying to squeeze another couple years out of our 17+ year old HVAC system. I’m getting quotes next week on a new system to be installed by the end of 2024, before the new requirements take effect. Got a new roof earlier this year, getting a new hot water heater next week, and now a new HVAC system. Hopefully that will help us get a better rate on a new homeowners policy with Farmers pulling out of the state and dropping us.

[biker1]

Sounds like a good plan otherwise your 17 year old HVAC is probably planning on dropping dead on July 4, 2025, a Friday and the start of a 3 day weekend.


Thanks for the heads up. This is important information for anyone whose system is nearing the end of its useful life. I called our HVAC company and was told to expect a minimum 25% price increase starting in 2025. This information most definitely has changed my mind about trying to squeeze another couple years out of our 17+ year old HVAC system. I’m getting quotes next week on a new system to be installed by the end of 2024, before the new requirements take effect. Got a new roof earlier this year, getting a new hot water heater next week, and now a new HVAC system. Hopefully that will help us get a better rate on a new homeowners policy with Farmers pulling out of the state and dropping us.

[sschuler1]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

Just had to replace ours, and our home will be 15 years old next month. We have just over 2000 square feet, and it was under $9000.

[GreggC69]

Apologies if OP unclear. The technician was servicing our mini split but was speaking about the main HVAC system, not the mini system he was here for. Sunshine Air.

[retiredguy123]

Thanks for the heads up. This is important information for anyone whose system is nearing the end of its useful life. I called our HVAC company and was told to expect a minimum 25% price increase starting in 2025. This information most definitely has changed my mind about trying to squeeze another couple years out of our 17+ year old HVAC system. I’m getting quotes next week on a new system to be installed by the end of 2024, before the new requirements take effect. Got a new roof earlier this year, getting a new hot water heater next week, and now a new HVAC system. Hopefully that will help us get a better rate on a new homeowners policy with Farmers pulling out of the state and dropping us.
Call me skeptical, but I find it difficult to believe that HVAC companies will be charging a minimum of 25 percent more for a new system in 2025. It sounds like they are trying to unload their in-stock old systems while they can. After January 1, 2025, these systems will be worthless.

[laryb]

Our Carrier system was 12.5 yrs. old when we replaced it. Tech told us that the line set under the house was leaking, and the the cost would be $1500-$2000 to replace. At that point I decided to replace it, thinking that its lifespan was limited. We bought a whole house Mitsubishi inverter system. We're using around 10% less electric with it, and another plus is it uses 1"X20"x20" filters. Also, it comes with a 12 yr. warranty. We got from M+S Air

[tophcfa]

Call me skeptical, but I find it difficult to believe that HVAC companies will be charging a minimum of 25 percent more for a new system in 2025. It sounds like they are trying to unload their in-stock old systems while they can. After January 1, 2025, these systems will be worthless.

I am skeptical by nature as well and thought of the same thing. That being said, I have been using our HVAC company (Chuck Ferrell) for 9 years and find them to be a reputable and trustworthy company. They don’t inventory the systems, they order them as needed with a short delivery lead time. But regarding your point, I’m sure their suppliers are itching to get rid of their inventory by year end. As of now, I’m looking at a late November install for a non-emergency.

[tophcfa]

Sounds like a good plan otherwise your 17 year old HVAC is probably planning on dropping dead on July 4, 2025, a Friday and the start of a 3 day weekend.

You’re right, it always seems to work that way. And to make matters worse, we will be about 1,350 miles away from our home when the app on my phone alerts me the temperature and humidity has skyrocketed.

[JimLtravels]

22 years and still going strong!

[Brasshog]

Which is exactly what happened to us this year. Ugh.

[RICH1]

15-20 years , with 15.00 Capacitor replacements every 4-5 years..

[ithos]

The number one issue to be concerned about is the failure of the compressor. R410A is being phased out and becoming much more expensive. Consequently the production of R410A equipment will also become more expensive and eventually extinct.

If your compressor fails and you are forced to use a compressor designed for a different refrigerant then you may have to replace the inside unit too. At a minimum you will have to replace the TXV. Also you will have to flush the line sets. Hopefully they can be reused because if not you are looking at a much more expensive project.

As far as I know, only 410A equipment is available now.

I have looked for a drop in replacement refrigerant and the only one that may be an option for existing equipment is this:

R-454B is a close match to R-410A in terms of operating pressures and efficiency. Some manufacturers are starting to design systems compatible with both R-410A and R-454B.
Switching to R-454B could require adjustments or updates to ensure compatibility, but it's often considered one of the best alternatives that minimizes the need for major system overhauls.

For a true "drop-in" replacement that requires absolutely no changes to the system, there are currently no widely accepted options for R-410A. Even alternatives like R-32 (which has a higher pressure) and R-466A (which requires different handling) would still likely need some level of component adjustment or replacement to ensure they work effectively.

Some HVAC technicians are recommending to their customers with units 10 years and older to replace their condensers and AHU's now because of the phase out. Don't know if they plan on changing the refrigerant.

Has anyone been given a recommendation to replace an operational HVAC system? If so what refrigerant were they going to require?

I don't consider myself an expert on this topic so please feel free to disagree. Thanks.

[ithos]

Also consider that some new refrigerants may be "mildly flammable" so be sure to ask the contractor about that.

In order to extend the life of my compressor I installed a EasyStart Micro-Air 368 Advanced Soft Starter. It is available on Amazon. Be sure and read the reviews.

[midiwiz]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

it really depends on environment. If you don't keep that condenser unit clean, if your main unit isn't in a closet or inside, shorter than expected. Otherwise it lasts over 10 years since we are inland it helps. Also don't forget the "rinse" every filter change aka 4 weeks (can do 6 weeks) alternate bleach next one white vinegar, etc.

[Wiserbud47]

Are there any advantages to waiting until 2025 and installing a unit that requires the new refrigerant?

[retiredguy123]

Are there any advantages to waiting until 2025 and installing a unit that requires the new refrigerant?
Yes, you will be saving the planet. That is the whole point of the new law.

[cwmmfink]

my first lasted just over 10 years.

[ithos]

Are there any advantages to waiting until 2025 and installing a unit that requires the new refrigerant?

R-32 and R-454B are available now. It is confusing since some manufacturers use proprietary names instead.

[Nancy Rodriguez]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?

Ours had to be re-laced at 13 years @$9,000 to replace

[ptharri]

I am skeptical by nature as well and thought of the same thing. That being said, I have been using our HVAC company (Chuck Ferrell) for 9 years and find them to be a reputable and trustworthy company. They don’t inventory the systems, they order them as needed with a short delivery lead time. But regarding your point, I’m sure their suppliers are itching to get rid of their inventory by year end. As of now, I’m looking at a late November install for a non-emergency.
If we replace our 2008 original system before 2025, can we still get the banned refrigerant or is it a closed system?

[nn0wheremann]

Hearing changes coming out next year that will cause a significant cost increase to replace a/c system in homes. New to Florida and curious - what is anticipated "normal" life expectancy of A/C system in Villages homes?
Mine is almost 22 years old, works perfectly. No issues whatsoever.

[defrey12]

Our is 17 years old and running good. What are these changes coming out next year that will significantly increase replacement costs and what is your source?

You should be able to get well over 20 years from a unit with proper, twice-yearly service and changing the filter every 90 days.

[jrref]

What vendor did the Tech work for?

I agree. HVAC units are increasing in price because the technology is changing giving us more efficient units in addition to the new refrigerant. I also agree most of these techs really don't know all the details. If your HVAC unit is over 15 years old, you need to plan on replacing it at some point after that. It could last 20 years but there is no way to know for sure. Also know if your unit is 15 or more years old the replacement will be a lot more efficient so you will be saving a significant amount of money on your electric bill.

[ithos]

You should be able to get well over 20 years from a unit with proper, twice-yearly service and changing the filter every 90 days.

That should include replacing the capacitor and contactor every 5-10 years.

I believe that a true drop in replacement for R410a has not been developed because of greed. There is a lot more profit in replacing the system as opposed to replacing the refrigerant.

I plan on keeping my system as long as possible as I think it is probable that new compatible refrigerant will eventually become available.

[ithos]

I agree. HVAC units are increasing in price because the technology is changing giving us more efficient units in addition to the new refrigerant. I also agree most of these techs really don't know all the details. If your HVAC unit is over 15 years old, you need to plan on replacing it at some point after that. It could last 20 years but there is no way to know for sure. Also know if your unit is 15 or more years old the replacement will be a lot more efficient so you will be saving a significant amount of money on your electric bill.

The new units will only be significantly more efficient if you pay for the upgrades such as variable speed or multispeed compressors and indoor fans. You probably won't see much difference if you replace it with a standard single stage compressor.

[jrref]

Are there any advantages to waiting until 2025 and installing a unit that requires the new refrigerant?

Supposedly, there will be newer technology in the units with the new refrigerant making the units more efficient. If you can wait until 2025, that would be best so you can see what's available and the cost vs efficiency.

Remember, here in Florida where we use the A/C almost all year long you need to consider efficiency in the equation on what to buy because the cost of electric is always going to increase over time.

If you have a 20+ year old unit, although it's still working, you are most likely paying a lot more for electric that adds up every year than with a new unit. If you are in this situation, you probably want to calmly contact some HVAC companies as you have time and get estimates on what's available so you can plan and replace it under your own schedule vs rushing when it fails. Also, don't be fooled by companies telling you, you need to replace now to avoid the new units with the new refrigerant. Over time, the old refrigerant and parts will get more and more costly. They will not tell you this. Hope this helps.

[Wilson02852]

Key word is "BOSTON"

[mikempp]

Our is 17 years old and running good. What are these changes coming out next year that will significantly increase replacement costs and what is your source?
I have a double in Ohio built in 1995, both units going strong. If you have an honest repair person maintenance is not high. I have both in Ohio and Florida good people.

[BrianL99]

I'm not an HVAC person, but based on 25+ years of commercial construction, this is what I've figured out.

1. Units built & installed in the 80's & 90's, seem to last 20+ years, with reasonable maintenance.

2. Units built from about 2005 forward, seem to have a life span of closer to 7-10 years. They almost all come from China.

3. On the newer units, expensive maintenance doesn't seem to help much, they're still 7-10 years. Just change the filters.

4. On any unit over over 15-20 year's old, you can almost save enough on energy, for a 3-4 year payback. I never repair units over 10 years old .... just replace 'em.

5. One out of every 4-5 units will go bad within a year or 2.

6. Buy the CORRECT size unit. Buying a larger or smaller unit than the specs mandate, is a ticket to problems.

7. If a change in specs (refrigerant) is coming, hold off replacing until the change is implemented. Computers systems are upgraded on about a 1 year cycle, AC's aren't that fast, but close enough. Why buy old technology?


JMOYMMV.