Villages to sell amenities?

[beckylou152]

An article in The Villages News article says that the developer is selling off the amenities in the southern part of TV. Does anyone know if this is true and what this means?I can’t get the link to work.

[Bill14564]

An article in The Villages News article says that the developer is selling off the amenities in the southern part of TV. Does anyone know if this is true and what this means?I can’t get the link to work.

The Developer is selling the amenities to the respective Sumter Landing CDD that owns all the utilities south of 466. This is normal. This the way the SLCDD acquired the amenities that I use.

[UsuallyLurking]

An article in The Villages News article says that the developer is selling off the amenities in the southern part of TV. Does anyone know if this is true and what this means?I can’t get the link to work.

The article indicates that the amenities (rec centers, executive golf courses) will be sold to the Sumter Landing CDD (which currently owns all of the amenities between 466 and 44 -- the Village Center CDD owns the amenities north of 466).

As the previous poster noted, this is standard procedure. It is important to note that the sale not only includes the amenities, but also the amenity contracts of the residents in those areas (yes, their amenity dollars have been going to the developer -- for maintenance of the amenity facilities as well as for anything else the developer wants to use them for). I would imagine that the Sumter Landing CDD will issue bonds to pay for the purchase, which will be paid for by the amenity fees it collects from residents.

[graciegirl]

An article in The Villages News article says that the developer is selling off the amenities in the southern part of TV. Does anyone know if this is true and what this means?I can’t get the link to work.

This is normal and how it has always worked;

The Developer acquires property and builds on it and when it is finished, he "sells" it to the CDD, in other words transfers over to be controlled by the Districts. Nothing is changing. It will be just fine. Just like the others have said.

Not to worry.

Well go ahead and worry if you want to, but not about THIS. xoxox

[Rainger99]

Does anyone know how the price is determined? Do both sides have somewhat equal bargaining power?

What happens if they can’t agree on a price?

[BrianL99]

An article in The Villages News article says that the developer is selling off the amenities in the southern part of TV. Does anyone know if this is true and what this means?I can’t get the link to work.

PFM Consulting has been retained to manage this sale and the appraisals. They are probably the premier municipal consulting company in the USA and this is exactly the kind of stuff they specialize in.

[rustyp]

How can I submit a bid ?

[golfing eagles]

Does anyone know how the price is determined? Do both sides have somewhat equal bargaining power?

What happens if they can’t agree on a price?

I'm sure you could get those answers if you were a party to the sale. Are you????? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Rainger99]

I'm sure you could get those answers if you were a party to the sale. Are you????? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I believe that we are all third party beneficiaries to the contract. Isn't the contract being made for the benefit of the people who reside in the Districts?

A third-party beneficiary is a person who is not a contracting party of a contract but can still receive the benefits from the performance of the contract.

Wouldn't that information be available through Florida's Sunshine Law?

[Two Bills]

I have already put a bid in for Richmond.

[golfing eagles]

I believe that we are all third party beneficiaries to the contract. Isn't the contract being made for the benefit of the people who reside in the Districts?

A third-party beneficiary is a person who is not a contracting party of a contract but can still receive the benefits from the performance of the contract.

Wouldn't that information be available through Florida's Sunshine Law?

Probably. But my response was funnier 😂😂😂

[Laker14]

Probably. But my response was funnier 😂😂😂

I have to agree.

[Bogie Shooter]

I believe that we are all third party beneficiaries to the contract. Isn't the contract being made for the benefit of the people who reside in the Districts?

A third-party beneficiary is a person who is not a contracting party of a contract but can still receive the benefits from the performance of the contract.

Wouldn't that information be available through Florida's Sunshine Law?
Probably, if you like wasting your time on such thing…..go for it.

[tophcfa]

Does anyone know how the price is determined? Do both sides have somewhat equal bargaining power?

What happens if they can’t agree on a price?

That’s a reasonable question, one would hope it’s a true arms length transaction since it involves the residents Ammenity fees. It’s definitely questionable that the parties involved are truly independent and have equal bargaining power, it’s been that way forever (by Villages time).

[BrianL99]

I'm sure you could get those answers if you were a party to the sale. Are you????? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Probably. But my response was funnier 😂😂😂

I have to agree.

That’s a reasonable question, one would hope it’s a true arms length transaction since it involves the residents Ammenity fees. It’s definitely questionable that the parties involved are truly independent and have equal bargaining power, it’s been that way forever (by Villages time).

I'm not sure who's funnier.

I suspect the property is essentially "appraised" using an income approach (income being amenity fees) and a selling price is determined from there.

I doubt there's immediate agreement from both sides, when presented with the initial appraisal, so I'm guessing it's subject to some negotiation ... which may be exempt from Florida Sunshine Laws, depending on who's attending or participating.

[twoplanekid]

PFM Consulting has been retained to manage this sale and the appraisals. They are probably the premier municipal consulting company in the USA and this is exactly the kind of stuff they specialize in.

When NSCUDD purchased the water systems south of 466A to 44 from the developer, I learned that PFM purchased the local Fishkind & Associates to then use those employees to make the valuation for NSCUDD. Fishkind & Associates made the valuations for years for the developer before this buy out took place. Now, I don't have current information on whether the former Fishkind employees still make valuations for the local PFM office.

At that time in 2019, I felt very uncomfortable using PFM to make valuations for NSCUDD. The relationships, such as the Sumter Landing CDD to the seller I find very interesting. It's all legal but still a bit too much for my liking.

[Rainger99]

When NSCUDD purchased the water systems south of 466A to 44 from the developer, I learned that PFM purchased the local Fishkind & Associates to then use those employees to make the valuation for NSCUDD. Fishkind & Associates made the valuations for years for the developer before this buy out took place. Now, I don't have current information on whether the former Fishkind employees still make valuations for the local PFM office.

At that time in 2019, I felt very uncomfortable using PFM to make valuations for NSCUDD. The relationships, such as the Sumter Landing CDD to the seller I find very interesting. It's all legal but still a bit too much for my liking.

Did they announce the price that was paid?

[twoplanekid]

Did they announce the price that was paid?

All valuations as well as the final purchase price are all published. However, it's very hard /almost impossible to scan old Village records online to find what you are looking for. You have to manually look up or specifically ask staff for a particular record. Nothing is hidden it's just often hard to locate the information you need.

[Rwirish]

This is nothing new.

[Rainger99]

The recreation facilities to be purchased include five executive golf courses, 28 swimming pools, recreation centers, pitch and putt courses, softball fields and dog parks.

I understand that the amenity fees will then be paid to the buyer. But how much is that worth?

The buyer gets a steady stream of income but are the golf courses, pools, and rec centers profitable? I was under the impression that in a good year they might break even.

Would anyone want to buy it?

Would a private company be allowed to place a bid? ?

[john352]

The article indicates that the amenities (rec centers, executive golf courses) will be sold to the Sumter Landing CDD (which currently owns all of the amenities between 466 and 44 -- the Village Center CDD owns the amenities north of 466).

As the previous poster noted, this is standard procedure. It is important to note that the sale includes not only the amenities but also the amenity contracts of the residents in those areas (yes, their amenity dollars have been going to the developer -- for maintenance of the amenity facilities as well as for anything else the developer wants to use them for). I imagine that the Sumter Landing CDD will issue bonds to pay for the purchase, which will be paid for by the amenity fees it collects from residents.

My home is located between 466 and 44. I have been paying for amenities and the maintenance fee on my property tax bill for 20 years. How much of my taxes will be going to the Developer for selling the amenities south of 44 to the District Government? Or will only the new property owners south of 44 be taxed?

[Goldwingnut]

The recreation facilities to be purchased include five executive golf courses, 28 swimming pools, recreation centers, pitch and putt courses, softball fields and dog parks.

I understand that the amenity fees will then be paid to the buyer. But how much is that worth?

The buyer gets a steady stream of income but are the golf courses, pools, and rec centers profitable? I was under the impression that in a good year they might break even.

Would anyone want to buy it?

Would a private company be allowed to place a bid? ?

The pools, golf courses, and rec centers are not profit centers so they cannot be determined to be profitable. If one looks at the entire entity of the amenities purchased, amenity fee revenues, and costs involved, the answer based on the 2016 purchase would be yes. The 2016 purchase revenues cover all operating and maintenance costs, the cost to pay the annual bond payments, and additional funds are added to capital reserves and the Repair and Replacement funds. One could consider the last two items the "profits", but then these are not being purchased as profit center for the SLCDD. It would not be unreasonable to assume the amenities that directly service CDD 12 & 13 are similar in financial position, but he PFM consulting firm will is being tasked with identifying these issues and to determine the sale price.

[Goldwingnut]

My home is located between 466 and 44. I have been paying for amenities and the maintenance fee on my property tax bill for 20 years. How much of my taxes will be going to the Developer for selling the amenities south of 44 to the District Government? Or will only the new property owners south of 44 be taxed?

You have not been pay for amenities on your purport tax bill, the amenities cost are paid for monthly on your utilities bill. The maintenance assessment billed on your tax bill covers maintenance and operating expenses for CDD owned properties in your CDD as well as covering a shared proportion of the "common properties" identified in Exhibit A of the Project Wide Agreement.

These new additions to the SLAD (Sumter Landing Amenities District) as well as the associated areas (CDD 12 & 13) amenity fees all become part of the overall SLAD. We all (south of 466) will pay for all of the amenities and their operating costs but there will be no changes in your amenity fee because of it as those are contractually limited by the agreement in your deed restrictions. So in answer to your question, yes you will be pay for them just as those who live in 12 and 13 will now be paying for the amenities north of 44, but you will see no increase because of this.

You are not "taxed" for the amenities, you have agreed to pay for these service when you purchased your home here in The Villages. None of your "taxes" are going to the developer for this purchase.

[Goldwingnut]

I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the District Manager, Kenny Blocker, to discuss some of the details of this process for SLCDD to purchase these amenities from the developer. Much of this is mirroring the process that occurs in 2016 when SLCDD purchased the amenities between 466 and 44 so there really are few surprises on this.

I'll discuss the amenities purchase on my Gold Wingnut Live YouTube broadcast on Sunday at 3 PM. The link for the boardcast is:

Gold Wingnut Live #38 10/27/2024 at 3:00 PM - Amenities Purchase - YouTube (https://youtube.com/live/9KAsCZLlK6o?feature=share)

[maistocars]

IMO, always be skeptical of anything that publication puts in print. This is normal procedure. Don Wiley will explain it on his podcast this Sunday.

[UsuallyLurking]

Does anyone know how the price is determined? Do both sides have somewhat equal bargaining power?

What happens if they can’t agree on a price?

The process about 5 years ago when the developer sold the amenities in the Soulliere and Phillips villas to the Village Center CDD. Both sides hired appraisal companies. When the appraisers had done their thing (assessed the values of the properties as well as the amenity contracts that were part of the deal), the following was agreed to ahead of time:

* If the appraisals agree, we are done.
* If the appraisals are within 5% of each other, lower appraisal wins.
* If the appraisals are more than 5% but otherwise within 10%, split the difference.
* If over 10% I don't recall if it was go to mediation (bring in a third party), walk away, or start over.

[RUCdaze]

Well if you read it in the mainstream media it must be true. They never lie.

[Rainger99]

Much of this is mirroring the process that occurs in 2016 when SLCDD purchased the amenities between 466 and 44 so there really are few surprises on this.Gold Wingnut Live #38 10/27/2024 at 3:00 PM - Amenities Purchase - YouTube (https://youtube.com/live/9KAsCZLlK6o?feature=share)

Who votes for the SLCDD supervisors?

According to the website, all Board Supervisors in Sumter Landing have been elected by “qualified electors” (registered voters) residing in the District. They are elected on a non-partisan basis on the general election ballot.

I thought it was just the commercial space in Lake Sumter? Does anyone reside in that district?

[Marathon Man]

Of all the things in my life to worry about, this is very near the bottom of the list.

[kansasr]

I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the District Manager, Kenny Blocker, to discuss some of the details of this process for SLCDD to purchase these amenities from the developer. Much of this is mirroring the process that occurs in 2016 when SLCDD purchased the amenities between 466 and 44 so there really are few surprises on this.

I'll discuss the amenities purchase on my Gold Wingnut Live YouTube broadcast on Sunday at 3 PM. The link for the boardcast is:

Gold Wingnut Live #38 10/27/2024 at 3:00 PM - Amenities Purchase - YouTube (https://youtube.com/live/9KAsCZLlK6o?feature=share)

Will look forward to your take on this transaction. I seem to remember you were one of the few people raising any questions about the last one.

[kansasr]

Who votes for the SLCDD supervisors?

According to the website, all Board Supervisors in Sumter Landing have been elected by “qualified electors” (registered voters) residing in the District. They are elected on a non-partisan basis on the general election ballot.

I thought it was just the commercial space in Lake Sumter? Does anyone reside in that district?

There are no residents. We have no say in who sits on this board, it's appointed by the developer.

[Rainger99]

Of all the things in my life to worry about, this is very near the bottom of the list.

I think understanding how we are governed and taxed is fairly important.

[Bill14564]

I think understanding how we are governed and taxed is fairly important.

The SLCDD neither governs you nor taxes you.

[Rainger99]

The SLCDD neither governs you nor taxes you.

A community development district (CDD) is a local, special-purpose government framework authorized by Chapter 190[1] of the Florida Statutes.

And I know amenities aren’t a tax but they are a payment made to a governmental entity.

Knowing how things work is helpful.

[Bill14564]

A community development district (CDD) is a local, special-purpose government framework authorized by Chapter 190[1] of the Florida Statutes.

And I know amenities aren’t a tax but they are a payment made to a governmental entity.

Knowing how things work is helpful.

The SLCDD governs the area immediately surrounding Lake Sumter square. I doubt it reaches to the nearby villas. It governs but it doesn’t govern you or me.

We can look up the dictionary definition of a tax for a fun discussion but others will be bored. Our amenity fee is fixed by the terms of our deed restrictions. For many of us the SLCDD collects it and spends it but they have little or no ability to modify it. Unlike a general tax that can be used for any function of the governmental entity collecting it, the amenity fee is a fee for service and must be used for running the amenities. Some may feel that is a distinction without a difference but I feel the distinction is significant.

Again, the way I see it, the SLCDD neither governs me nor taxes me.

[Rainger99]

The SLCDD governs the area immediately surrounding Lake Sumter square. I doubt it reaches to the nearby villas. It governs but it doesn’t govern you or me.

In Post #2, you stated "The Developer is selling the amenities to the respective Sumter Landing CDD that owns all the utilities south of 466."

It may not govern us but it sounds like it will have some control or input into our amenities.

Would you be satisfied if some corporation bought the amenities? Or if District 10 bought the amenities?

There seems to be a lot of confusion over how things work and many of us are just trying to figure it out. Someone suggested that the SLCDD will issue bonds.

Hopefully, Mr. Wiley will explain everything on Sunday.

[Bill14564]

In Post #2, you stated "The Developer is selling the amenities to the respective Sumter Landing CDD that owns all the utilities south of 466."

It may not govern us but it sounds like it will have some control or input into our amenities.

Would you be satisfied if some corporation bought the amenities? Or if District 10 bought the amenities?

There seems to be a lot of confusion over how things work and many of us are just trying to figure it out. Someone suggested that the SLCDD will issue bonds.

Yes, the SLCDD runs the amenities and could potentially negatively affect us in some way. That is a minimal concern to me as I don’t believe they want to deal with the repercussions of upsetting tens of thousands of residents.

Hopefully, Mr. Wiley will explain everything on Sunday.

I don’t believe the sale is open to any entity other than the SLCDD. The issue is not who will purchase the amenities from the Developer, the issue is how much the SLCDD is going to pay.


Whatever financing mechanism the SLCDD Uses to pay for the amenities, I know it will not affect my amenity fee and I don’t believe there is any way the SLCDD can levy any other tax on me.

[Goldwingnut]

There seems to be a lot of confusion over how things work and many of us are just trying to figure it out. Someone suggested that the SLCDD will issue bonds.

Hopefully, Mr. Wiley will explain everything on Sunday.

That's the plan, please tune it.

[GoldenBoy]

Well if you read it in the mainstream media it must be true. They never lie.

That statement sounds vaguely political.

[justjim]

Well if you read it in the mainstream media it must be true. They never lie.

Freedom of the Press: Mainstream media (whatever definition) as well as other media (whatever definition), freedom of speech, freedom of religion and finally the right to peaceful assembly to address the government ALL protected by the First amendment to the United States Constitution. Less we forget.

[Marathon Man]

I think understanding how we are governed and taxed is fairly important.

I absolutely agree. So, years ago when I moved here, I took the time to become informed about how our community works. Resident Acadamy is a great start. Attending your monthly CCD Board meeting is another.

[BrianL99]

I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the District Manager, Kenny Blocker, to discuss some of the details of this process for SLCDD to purchase these amenities from the developer. Much of this is mirroring the process that occurs in 2016 when SLCDD purchased the amenities between 466 and 44 so there really are few surprises on this.

I'll discuss the amenities purchase on my Gold Wingnut Live YouTube broadcast on Sunday at 3 PM. The link for the boardcast is:

Gold Wingnut Live #38 10/27/2024 at 3:00 PM - Amenities Purchase - YouTube (https://youtube.com/live/9KAsCZLlK6o?feature=share)

It's been reported that the "preliminary value" is $246.49M. Who's value is that? The Seller's or Buyer's ?

[onfire]

It's been reported that the "preliminary value" is $246.49M. Who's value is that? The Seller's or Buyer's ?

Both parties hired independent appraisers and the final value is a negotiation, as with any sale / purchase agreement.

The developer still has primary control as they appoint the board, however, it should be transparent to home owners who continue to pay the amenity fee and receive the services.

The developer will get their cash to build more amenities further south and the CDD takes on bonds.

The only issue I have with this arrangement is the "landowner" control, it seems this should transition to the residents (local election) since the land is being purchased and is no longer owned by the developer, or perhaps that statement is incorrect.

[Bill14564]

It's been reported that the "preliminary value" is $246.49M. Who's value is that? The Seller's or Buyer's ?

The article states that the SLCDD hired PFM to determine the value. Based on that reporting, this would be the buyer's value.

Note: the article is very light on the details of the process.

[onfire]

The article states that the SLCDD hired PFM to determine the value. Based on that reporting, this would be the buyer's value.

Note: the article is very light on the details of the process.

You can attend or read the minutes of the meetings. The developer hired "Stantec" and the process is explained. They should finalize today I believe.

ANALYSIS/INFORMATION:
On October 14, 2024, the SLCDD Board approved a purchase and sale agreement to
purchase amenities in District 12 and District 13 and the remaining amenities in the
SLCDD service territory north of State Road 44. The SLCDD Board subsequently
approved the agreement with PFM to perform a valuation of said amenities to arrive at
a value using the income approach over 30 years. The seller was to engage with their
own valuation consultant, in which they hired Stantec to perform the valuation for the
seller to have a comparative value. Once each consultant derived a value, a
comparison is to be made to determine the preliminary purchase price. As previously
stated, the income approach is to be used over a 30 year period using a discount rate
equal to the modified true interest cost as provided by the investment banker. The
discount rate as provided by investment banker to use is 5.79%. Once each
preliminary valued is determined by both consultants, then a comparison is made to
determine how far apart the values are by percentage. If the difference is less than 5%,
the lesser of the two values will be the preliminary value used for pricing. If the values
are between 5-10%, then the average will be used as the preliminary value.
The preliminary value as prepared by PFM is $246,493,180.
Once final pricing is completed, the actual discount rate, as defined, will be applied and
the final purchase price will be determined as defined in the purchase and sale
agreement.

[Bill14564]

Both parties hired independent appraisers and the final value is a negotiation, as with any sale / purchase agreement.

The developer still has primary control as they appoint the board, however, it should be transparent to home owners who continue to pay the amenity fee and receive the services.

The developer will get their cash to build more amenities further south and the CDD takes on bonds.

The only issue I have with this arrangement is the "landowner" control, it seems this should transition to the residents (local election) since the land is being purchased and is no longer owned by the developer, or perhaps that statement is incorrect.

The article states that the SLCDD hired PFM to determine the value. Based on that reporting, this would be the buyer's value.

Note: the article is very light on the details of the process.

You can attend or read the minutes of the meetings. The developer hired "Stantec" and the process is explained. They should finalize today I believe.

ANALYSIS/INFORMATION:
On October 14, 2024, the SLCDD Board approved a purchase and sale agreement to
purchase amenities in District 12 and District 13 and the remaining amenities in the
SLCDD service territory north of State Road 44. The SLCDD Board subsequently
approved the agreement with PFM to perform a valuation of said amenities to arrive at
a value using the income approach over 30 years. The seller was to engage with their
own valuation consultant, in which they hired Stantec to perform the valuation for the
seller to have a comparative value. Once each consultant derived a value, a
comparison is to be made to determine the preliminary purchase price. As previously
stated, the income approach is to be used over a 30 year period using a discount rate
equal to the modified true interest cost as provided by the investment banker. The
discount rate as provided by investment banker to use is 5.79%. Once each
preliminary valued is determined by both consultants, then a comparison is made to
determine how far apart the values are by percentage. If the difference is less than 5%,
the lesser of the two values will be the preliminary value used for pricing. If the values
are between 5-10%, then the average will be used as the preliminary value.
The preliminary value as prepared by PFM is $246,493,180.
Once final pricing is completed, the actual discount rate, as defined, will be applied and
the final purchase price will be determined as defined in the purchase and sale
agreement.

Then you agree that the PFM value is the buyer’s value.

Those details may be in the SLCDD minutes but they were not in the recent article which contained very few details.

The Developer does not strictly appoint the SLCDD board. The board is selected through a landowner election though it is true that the landowner is the Developer. The end result is the same but the process follows the State rules for CDDs.

It is the SLCDD that is purchasing the amenities, not a numbered CDD. As far as I know, there are no residents within the boundaries of the SLCDD so there can be no transition to a resident/local election. The numbered CDDs will transition to local control in the timeline set by the statutes that create a CDD.

[BrianL99]

It's been reported that the "preliminary value" is $246.49M. Who's value is that? The Seller's or Buyer's ?

Both parties hired independent appraisers and the final value is a negotiation, as with any sale / purchase agreement.

The developer still has primary control as they appoint the board, however, it should be transparent to home owners who continue to pay the amenity fee and receive the services.

The developer will get their cash to build more amenities further south and the CDD takes on bonds.

The only issue I have with this arrangement is the "landowner" control, it seems this should transition to the residents (local election) since the land is being purchased and is no longer owned by the developer, or perhaps that statement is incorrect.

I know exactly how it works. I asked a specific question, that you're apparently unable to answer.

Y

The preliminary value as prepared by PFM is $246,493,180.
Once final pricing is completed, the actual discount rate, as defined, will be applied and
the final purchase price will be determined as defined in the purchase and sale
agreement.

Thank you Onfire, that answers my question.