Amenity Fees and Bank Charges

[bjansson]

I need everyone's opinion. I moved here in December and have been paying my amenity fees online the whole time using the check transfer system. Several months ago I paid my amenity fee and I accidentally typed in the wrong number, their system does not allow cut and paste, and somewhere i typed in a number wrong. I received a confirmation that the bill had been paid.

Next month I logged in and found the bill to be doubled so obviously something didn't go through. I didn't receive any notification that there was a problem or I would have tried to pay it again immediately. So I typed in the numbers again and evidently they are wrong in my notes because I was very careful this time. Again I received a payment confirmation.

Then I got a notice in the mail detailing the problem so I went in and paid the account with a different checking account. That one went through. Keep in mind there is plenty of money in both of these accounts. The bank didn't deny anything nor did it charge the villages a penny. But I got charged $40.00 for each ‘infraction’. $80 for typing in the wrong numbers accidentally.

I was quoted state law that says very clearly if someone knowingly writes a check and there are INSUFFICIENT FUNDS in that account then it is lawful to charge a fee. But charging a fee for an accident, a mistake? According to their office this happens a lot and they charge a lot of people $40. Am I incorrect to think that this is unfair? I didn't do it on purpose. I'm 65 now so the brain doesn't work quite as well as it used to. Communication was less than par. Still they refused to refund my money.

The person I talked to suggested I write a check - and then changed her mind and said “no you're not ALLOWED to write checks anymore because of the two penalty fees”. So I guess I will pay by credit card and incur those charges instead.

Still I feel all of this was completely unnecessary. They showed no grace whatsoever and I can only imagine what it's like for someone who is developing cognitive problems, has no one else to rely on and is trying to do the right thing and being treated like this? i thought this was supposed to be "the Dream".

What a nice welcome to the Villages….

[Bill14564]

I need everyone's opinion. I moved here in December and have been paying my amenity fees online the whole time using the check transfer system. Several months ago I paid my amenity fee and I accidentally typed in the wrong number, their system does not allow cut and paste, and somewhere i typed in a number wrong. I received a confirmation that the bill had been paid.

Next month I logged in and found the bill to be doubled so obviously something didn't go through. I didn't receive any notification that there was a problem or I would have tried to pay it again immediately. So I typed in the numbers again and evidently they are wrong in my notes because I was very careful this time. Again I received a payment confirmation.

Then I got a notice in the mail detailing the problem so I went in and paid the account with a different checking account. That one went through. Keep in mind there is plenty of money in both of these accounts. The bank didn't deny anything nor did it charge the villages a penny. But I got charged $40.00 for each ‘infraction’. $80 for typing in the wrong numbers accidentally.

I was quoted state law that says very clearly if someone knowingly writes a check and there are INSUFFICIENT FUNDS in that account then it is lawful to charge a fee. But charging a fee for an accident, a mistake? According to their office this happens a lot and they charge a lot of people $40. Am I incorrect to think that this is unfair? I didn't do it on purpose. I'm 65 now so the brain doesn't work quite as well as it used to. Communication was less than par. Still they refused to refund my money.

The person I talked to suggested I write a check - and then changed her mind and said “no you're not ALLOWED to write checks anymore because of the two penalty fees”. So I guess I will pay by credit card and incur those charges instead.

Still I feel all of this was completely unnecessary. They showed no grace whatsoever and I can only imagine what it's like for someone who is developing cognitive problems, has no one else to rely on and is trying to do the right thing and being treated like this? i thought this was supposed to be "the Dream".

What a nice welcome to the Villages….

You started paying bills in December (10+ months ago) and you want to say, "What a nice welcome...?"

I'm sorry this happened to you and that it has cost you $80. But to be fair, what does it look like from their end? They can't tell the difference between a mistyped number, an account with insufficient funds, or an attempt to delay payment, all they see is a payment refused by the bank.

A one-time forgiveness would be nice (and generous) but you are asking for forgiveness for two months and if you had not paid with a different, valid account this time it would have been three. $40 does seem like a lot but it is what it is. I haven't experienced a payment being refused in many years so I don't know what is typical today.

NOTE: The "payment confirmation" you received had nothing to do with them receiving the funds, funds cannot be transferred that quickly. They were confirming that you had entered sufficient information for them to reach out to the bank and request the funds. Perhaps they need to change their wording to avoid this apparent misunderstanding.

[Dr.SammieMD]

First of all, and I'm not justifying the amount, but remember that there is an expense on their part to manually process the exception that was created. You have the ability to have the payment withdrawn from your checking account every month on the due date. Set up Autopay and set up reminders for the payment coming due, then never worry about it again.

[Bogie Shooter]

My amenity fee is a part of my water bill……………

[Pairadocs]

[QUOTE=bjansson;2383040]I need everyone's opinion.

First of all, I do sympathize. Many will only lecture you that you should never make a mistake. I have had a very similar circumstance, was told my bank (United Southern) "refused" the payment I authorized (this was not related to a villages bill. Long story here, but like you, plenty of $$$ in account. Finally went to bank where they know me personally and they proved they have NEVER refused a a payment I authorized (lived here for years before retiring to the Villages). The end of this is, there is simply no way any big corporation allows for any mistake, even an "honest" mistake, and the Villages is a very nice community but it is far from a friendly small town. It is a huge corporation like any other. The days of simply talking to someone who recognizes you and have a discussion, like I can at my bank, are long gone. I am sure there is no way you will escape paying for your mistake. And if misery loves company, I will tell you that even though I did nothing wrong, and NO payment was ever refused by my bank, I too have been banned from ever paying paying my bill by check. It's almost amusing, I am probably the lease likely to ever write a refused or insufficient funds check ! Expensive lesson and reminder to be "perfect" at all times, but the name of the game is not to be "understanding", it's money/profit/bottom line.

[Pugchief]

My VCDD bill (water, amenities, garbage) is paid by auto debit. They pull the money on the due date each month. I never have to worry if payment is late, correct amount, or otherwise. You can presumably set this up as well and never worry about another $40 fee.

[CarlR33]

It would have been the same had you miss payed a credit card bill….they would add the interest and you would pay a little more next month. As others have said setup autopay and no more worries. I simply cannot imagine taking the time and the potential mistakes of paying each bill manually each month…I have better things to do at the pool:)

[Bogie Shooter]

[QUOTE=bjansson;2383040]I need everyone's opinion.

First of all, I do sympathize. Many will only lecture you that you should never make a mistake. I have had a very similar circumstance, was told my bank (United Southern) "refused" the payment I authorized (this was not related to a villages bill. Long story here, but like you, plenty of $$$ in account. Finally went to bank where they know me personally and they proved they have NEVER refused a a payment I authorized (lived here for years before retiring to the Villages). The end of this is, there is simply no way any big corporation allows for any mistake, even an "honest" mistake, and the Villages is a very nice community but it is far from a friendly small town. It is a huge corporation like any other. The days of simply talking to someone who recognizes you and have a discussion, like I can at my bank, are long gone. I am sure there is no way you will escape paying for your mistake. And if misery loves company, I will tell you that even though I did nothing wrong, and NO payment was ever refused by my bank, I too have been banned from ever paying paying my bill by check. It's almost amusing, I am probably the lease likely to ever write a refused or insufficient funds check ! Expensive lesson and reminder to be "perfect" at all times, but the name of the game is not to be "understanding", it's money/profit/bottom line.

I disagree…..
Had an overdraft on one of my accounts at Citizens. Went to the branch where I do necessary face to face business.
I asked for the overdraft fee to be waived. No questions, it was done.
Not a big corporation just the lady I always deal with at my small town bank branch.
My guess is this happens every day………..

[Bogie Shooter]

My VCDD bill (water, amenities, garbage) is paid by auto debit. They pull the money on the due date each month. I never have to worry if payment is late, correct amount, or otherwise. You can presumably set this up as well and never worry about another $40 fee.

It would have been the same had you miss payed a credit card bill….they would add the interest and you would pay a little more next month. As others have said setup autopay and no more worries. I simply cannot imagine taking the time and the potential mistakes of paying each bill manually each month…I have better things to do at the pool:)

So simple.

[retiredguy123]

OP, your post is confusing. I always pay my amenity bill using my bank's electronic check pay system. I go online at districtgov.org to see the amount of the bill, and then go to my bank's website and make an online payment to pay the bill. If that is what you did, but used an account that did not have sufficient funds to cover the bill, the bank is correct to charge you a $40 insufficient funds charge. Consider yourself lucky because what you did could be a crime, even though it was not done on purpose. When my wife owned a business, and she received a check that bounced, she would call the sheriff, who would make an arrest. Your post is confusing because you don't say who charged you $40, and you also said that there was sufficient money in both accounts, but that you were charged for insufficient funds in the account. How can both statements be true? If you executed a check from an account that had insufficient funds, the bank is correct, and I would pay the $40 and be more careful when making electronic payments. But, you may want to clarify your original post because it not at all clear what happened.

[CFrance]

OP, your post is confusing. I always pay my amenity bill using my bank's electronic check pay system. I go online at districtgov.org to see the amount of the bill, and then go to my bank's website and make an online payment to pay the bill. If that is what you did, but used an account that did not have sufficient funds to cover the bill, the bank is correct to charge you a $40 insufficient funds charge. Consider yourself lucky because what you did could be a crime, even though it was not done on purpose. When my wife owned a business, and she received a check that bounced, she would call the sheriff, who would make an arrest. Your post is confusing because you don't say who charged you $40, and you also said that there was sufficient money in both accounts, but you that you were charged for insufficient funds in the account. How can both statements be true? If you executed a check from an account that had insufficient funds, the bank is correct, and I would pay the $40 and be more careful when making electronic payments. But, you may want to clarify your original post because it not at all clear what happened.
I'm confused too. If the bank had sufficient funds and they were the ones who charged you the $40 x 2, they should refund that amount.

As far as TV, I had a different outcome a year ago. Apparently my amenity account number on my bank bill payment system switched back to our former one on the first house we bought. Or else I did it somehow, I don't know. After two months I got a bill for three times the normal amount. I called TV, and they were extremely helpful sorting the problem out, at one point telling me "Don't worry, we'll figure this out." Between us and them we got the account number straightened out, the amounts credited to the right account, and no banning or extra charges, including no late fees. They couldn't have been more pleasant and helpful.

I do not care for automatic deductions. I once had a company deduct a payment twice and had to go through a lot of hassle to get it refunded. My bank will pay the bills when I tell it to. If it's the same amount every month I can tell the bank to send a set amount every month to a business without giving the business access to our bank account.

The amenity people email me a bill every month. It's usually a different amount. I just get on my bank account and have them pay the bill. I double check the account number.

[Bill14564]

OP, your post is confusing. I always pay my amenity bill using my bank's electronic check pay system. I go online at districtgov.org to see the amount of the bill, and then go to my bank's website and make an online payment to pay the bill.
...




...

The amenity people email me a bill every month. It's usually a different amount. I just get on my bank account and have them pay the bill. I double check the account number.

I took the original post to mean he signed onto InvoiceCloud, selected the EFT (Check) option, but then input incorrect information for his bank account. It wouldn't be that the correct bank with sufficient funds paid the wrong InvoiceCloud account but rather InvoiceCloud attempted to retrieve funds from an invalid bank account.

[retiredguy123]

I took the original post to mean he signed onto InvoiceCloud, selected the EFT (Check) option, but then input incorrect information for his bank account. It wouldn't be that the correct bank with sufficient funds paid the wrong InvoiceCloud account but rather InvoiceCloud attempted to retrieve funds from an invalid bank account.
But, the penalty for paying the bill late is 5 percent of the bill, not $40. The $40 sounds like a bank fee for a bounced check. The OP said that there was sufficient money in the account to cover the check, but someone told him that the fee was for a transaction with insufficient funds in the account. Both statements cannot be true.

I think that, if the OP made a mistake, he/she should pay the fees and move on. Why should someone else pay for the OP's mistake? The bank has probably spent more than $80 handling the transactions anyway.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

But, the penalty for paying the bill late is 5 percent of the bill, not $40. The $40 sounds like a bank fee for a bounced check. The OP said that there was sufficient money in the account to cover the check, but someone told him that the fee was for a transaction with insufficient funds in the account. Both statements cannot be true.

I think that, if the OP made a mistake, he/she should pay the fees and move on. Why should someone else pay for the OP's mistake? The bank has probably spent more than $80 handling the transactions anyway.

If the OP typed that he put in an incorrect account number from his bank, one which had not enough funds, his own bank is charging the OP an insufficient funds check for drawing on some one else's account. In other words, bank is trying to recoup costs for bad checks from ANYONE who writes bad checks. In this case, he needs to physically go to his bank, and talk directly with a person in an office, not a teller, to get the situation straightened out.

emails are untrustworthy in today's world for honest mistakes. .

if one makes an error accidentally, then one makes the effort to clean up one's error, whatever the effort takes. No grace is expected, but one is very thankful if there is. .

YMMV

[retiredguy123]

If the OP typed that he put in an incorrect account number from his bank, one which had not enough funds, his own bank is charging the OP an insufficient funds check for drawing on some one else's account. In other words, bank is trying to recoup costs for bad checks from ANYONE who writes bad checks. In this case, he needs to physically go to his bank, and talk directly with a person in an office, not a teller, to get the situation straightened out.

emails are untrustworthy in today's world for honest mistakes. .

if one makes an error accidentally, then one makes the effort to clean up one's error, whatever the effort takes. No grace is expected, but one is very thankful if there is. .

YMMV
It seems to me that the bank would reject the check rather than charge an insufficient funds fee. I'm not an expert on banking procedures, but don't they have a system to verify that the person trying to execute a check from someone else's account is the owner of the account, like matching the name and address? I cannot imagine that the bank would release money from an account without verifying who owns the account.

[Bill14564]

But, the penalty for paying the bill late is 5 percent of the bill, not $40. The $40 sounds like a bank fee for a bounced check. The OP said that there was sufficient money in the account to cover the check, but someone told him that the fee was for a transaction with insufficient funds in the account. Both statements cannot be true.

I think that, if the OP made a mistake, he/she should pay the fees and move on. Why should someone else pay for the OP's mistake? The bank has probably spent more than $80 handling the transactions anyway.

I see that 5% but that is listed as a late fee when you don't pay at all. There might be an additional fee for attempting to pay with an account that has insufficient funds and entering an account number that is not accepted could be seen as just that. You're correct that he needs to clarify who he was talking to and who (the bank or the District) is charging the $40.

I also agree with your last comment. It seems unlikely that the bank would receive an EFT against a nonexistent account then trace that back to another account using the name on the bill and charge the existing account an NSF fee.

The clarification, if it ever comes, will be useful.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

It seems to me that the bank would reject the check rather than charge an insufficient funds fee. I'm not an expert on banking procedures, but don't they have a system to verify that the person trying to execute a check from someone else's account is the owner of the account, like matching the name and address? I cannot imagine that the bank would release money from an account without verifying who owns the account.

I don't disagree, but banks collecting fees with zero incremental cost, makes quite a bit of extra income. Its about the top and bottom line, which is why I think that the personal face to face meeting will correct the issues.

I have written checks to vendors, sent them to the wrong vendor, and both the bank and incorrect vendor honored the check. These issues only get resolved internally with an audit and over a significance threshold, or the customer brings up the issue, and it gets resolved manually. . that is about speed for money availability before fraud became rampant. Compare your solution to the recent post about Fidelity and others taking 21 days to cash checks. that's due to the cashiers check fraud. Janet Yellen also mentioned fraud at banks is becoming a real issue in a speech recently this week i believe.

have made honest banking mistakes and had them resolved in the managers office many times. . . speed versus accuracy with very large volumes and federal rules written for an honest system.

YMMV

[frayedends]

The original post makes no sense in any way you look at it. OP said they entered a wrong number somewhere. Presumably, this mean a 4 instead of a 5 in a long account number. I didn't read it to mean that it was a different account number. OP said there was money in both accounts. If it was the entirely different account number then it wouldn't have matter. OP said they got payment confirmation. Usually a confirmation has an electronic check. While the amount may not clear right away, they can check that the account info is correct and there are sufficient funds.

Op isn't saying who is charging the fee. But if there were sufficient funds it wouldn't matter. If the account number was wrong they wouldn't even have the correct person. Op hasn't replied since posting a few days ago. :shrug::shrug:

[CarlR33]

OP was a post and run kinda guy.

[retiredguy123]

I have concluded that the OP bounced 2 checks and doesn't want to pay the bank fees of $80, without any justification. The OP even admitted to making a mistake. I have never bounced a check, but if I did, I would pay the fees and be more careful the next time I executed a check. I wouldn't expect someone else to pay the fees. It costs the bank money to process a bounced check. Too many people think the rules should not apply to them.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Here is the reality of "the Dream" the IT dept. of TV is lackluster at best. That website is horrible and they don't get it. The reason you have to enter the account number every time is because they don't know how to code it properly. I've complained about it before - no answer. Go figure. I'm not sure if it's they don't get it, they are waiting for me to teach them how to do it, or they simply just don't care. I'll bet it's all 3.

Anyway I feel your pain, I've had to triple check it every time, because I knew they'd never say "hey you messed something up" for being the 'conservative stronghold' it's pretty woke around here..... simply amazing.

They are a nepotistic type of corporation, with a captured customer, which equates to a monopoly. Monopolies don't care much for their customers, until they have to. Simple as that. .

It's much easier to push a check to them monthly for a higher amount, and then true up once a year. That way, one is seldom behind, always in good standing, and one doesn't have to worry about writing checks or going to a web site each month. Just check the bill monthly to see if there is a negative balance (2 minutes per month) and then enjoy on's day. .

foolproof and lazy is my mantra, automation is always the answer because when hoomans get involved, there is an exponential increase in mistakes