Buying from China

[Arctic Fox]

Will be interesting to see if there is a surge in imports from China in the next two months, with the likelihood of increased tariffs after that.

A bike tire I ordered on-line two weeks ago was sourced direct from China and arrived yesterday, and I suspect WalMart will have a larger number than usual of huge container ships heading our way.

[Two Bills]

Will be interesting to see if there is a surge in imports from China in the next two months, with the likelihood of increased tariffs after that.

A bike tire I ordered on-line two weeks ago was sourced direct from China and arrived yesterday, and I suspect WalMart will have a larger number than usual of huge container ships heading our way.

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

[Bogie Shooter]

If tariffs…then you can buy US made. That’s the plan right?

[Topspinmo]

Temu Cutting into Amazon profits it was already in works before election. We Can figure out why. Only certain things are tariffs, can’t tariff everything from China cause last 60 years majority manufactured/casting comes from China. Hence the middle man mentality, why built it or produce it when don’t have to.

[Topspinmo]

If tariffs…then you can buy US made. That’s the plan right?


Maybe in 20 years unless attitudes change.

[phylt]

IMO much ado about not much.

I feel that many of these tariffs will be targeted, and not sweeping anti-China etc.

For sure, vehicles from China and probably Mexico would be targeted - as they should be.

We DO need to manufacture MUCH more in our domestic production, especially critical pharmaceutical etc.

Our country needs to be completely prepared and focus on OUR country. So many others have taken advantage of us over the years. Especially allowing Corps et al to run amok exporting jobs and enriching themselves despite endangering the country.

Myself, I'll wait and see what happens. The sky is NOT falling. IMO the clouds are opening and the sun will shine brighter.

[Stu from NYC]

If tariffs go from 25% to 60% that will greatly affect Chinese imports. Watching closely.

[rustyp]

If tariffs go from 25% to 60% that will greatly affect Chinese imports. Watching closely.

And greatly increase the price of goods to us. Then we will demand wage increases to keep even. Thus the inflation spiral will begin. When it comes it comes in on an express train.

[Pondboy]

So who do you blame for all the good sourced from overseas?

The people who just look at the cheap price vs. the quality and origin of the goods…..or the manufacturers who outsourced the goods because they didn’t want to pay a fair wage (and benefits) to the American workers…..or the US manufacturers who did not have smart and creative employees (due to a poor educational system) to develop new cutting “edge technology”to the market.

When was the last time you sought out goods made in American and knowingly paid more for them ?

Also, who do you think is paying all those tariffs? We are, the consumer.

Don’t blame China or the rest of the world, they are just filling a need.

[jimbomaybe]

And greatly increase the price of goods to us. Then we will demand wage increases to keep even. Thus the inflation spiral will begin. When it comes it comes in on an express train.
Inflation will work its way through the economy , tariffs will make imports more expensive ,certainly at the same time making American goods more competitive price wise, wage increases inflation adds to , as the workers feel the pinch

[retiredguy123]

The idea of manufacturing goods in the U.S. may sound good, but people will always buy the cheapest products regardless of where they are made.

[Arctic Fox]

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time. Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

Interesting things, tariffs, and there are many reasons for applying them.

China currently produces 80% of the World's solar panels, so of course it can make them cheaply - that is the whole point of mass production.

However, the USA imposed tariffs on them claiming that they were being sold "below cost".

If they are, surely the best way to get at that company (or country) is to buy as many of that product as possible? That way you, get them nice and cheap, and on every one you buy the company is losing money. It can't keep doing that for ever and will soon have to raise its prices to cover costs.

Many tariffs are imposed to protect local manufacturers. This is not the case for solar panels where the USA does not have the capacity to meet demand, and can sell all ot produces to people who want to buy USA-made products.

The major reason for imposing tariffs is to raise revenue for the Government (under the guise of doing what's best for the local manufacturers, of course).

[fdpaq0580]

If tariffs…then you can buy US made. That’s the plan right?

That's the plan, but it doesn't always work. Supposed to "level the playing field" so imports don't have unfair price advantage over US goods.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If tariffs…then you can buy US made. That’s the plan right?

There are lots of things that people consume or purchase, that aren't made in the USA at all. And many of those things that ARE made in the USA, use components that are made in China.

Prices will be going up on just about everything other than LOCAL produce and meats. Why? Because trucks that deliver stuff to the supermarket are made with components that come from China.

In addition, the whole reason we all buy things from China instead of manufacturing here in the first place - is because no one here wants to work for the low wages needed to provide these products to us, for the same prices that we pay from Chinese imports. So we'll be looking at either a) a massive increase in prices for products newly-manufactured in the US to accommodate the pay, insurance, and other expenses involved in having American employees, or b) a massive drop in pay and massive increase in people who can no longer pay their bills.

It's just so myopic to assume that we'll be fine if we just buy from US manufacturers.

[fdpaq0580]

The idea of manufacturing goods in the U.S. may sound good, but people will always buy the cheapest products regardless of where they are made.

Personally, I generally prefer to buy the best product I can (reasonably) afford. Sometimes the old saying, "that you get what you pay for ", is true. Sometimes, it's not. Let the buyer beware.

[Stu from NYC]

Interesting things, tariffs, and there are many reasons for applying them.

China currently produces 80% of the World's solar panels, so of course it can make them cheaply - that is the whole point of mass production.

However, the USA imposed tariffs on them claiming that they were being sold "below cost".

If they are, surely the best way to get at that company (or country) is to buy as many of that product as possible? That way you, get them nice and cheap, and on every one you buy the company is losing money. It can't keep doing that for ever and will soon have to raise its prices to cover costs.

Many tariffs are imposed to protect local manufacturers. This is not the case for solar panels where the USA does not have the capacity to meet demand, and can sell all ot produces to people who want to buy USA-made products.

The major reason for imposing tariffs is to raise revenue for the Government (under the guise of doing what's best for the local manufacturers, of course).

If the panels are being made below cost the govt of China would be subsidizing them giving them an unfair advantage.

I do believe the tariff assuming people believe it will last for a long time will encourage manufacturers to make the items as they can now compete on price.

[Arctic Fox]

If the panels are being made below cost the govt of China would be subsidizing them giving them an unfair advantage.

Agreed. So buying a load of them would adversely impact the Chinese government financially.

And it's not as if the US government doesn't subsidize certain industries here (or give them a break in other ways, such as not requiring them to abide by pollution laws).

[Caymus]

If the panels are being made below cost the govt of China would be subsidizing them giving them an unfair advantage.

I do believe the tariff assuming people believe it will last for a long time will encourage manufacturers to make the items as they can now compete on price.

They will have other problems when the demand declines due to less taxpayer subsidies. The solar stocks plummeted on Wednesday.

[Normal]

It will be more like China drops its subsidies and tariffs, then the US backs off.

[bob47]

There are lots of things that people consume or purchase, that aren't made in the USA at all. And many of those things that ARE made in the USA, use components that are made in China.

Prices will be going up on just about everything other than LOCAL produce and meats. Why? Because trucks that deliver stuff to the supermarket are made with components that come from China.

In addition, the whole reason we all buy things from China instead of manufacturing here in the first place - is because no one here wants to work for the low wages needed to provide these products to us, for the same prices that we pay from Chinese imports. So we'll be looking at either a) a massive increase in prices for products newly-manufactured in the US to accommodate the pay, insurance, and other expenses involved in having American employees, or b) a massive drop in pay and massive increase in people who can no longer pay their bills.

It's just so myopic to assume that we'll be fine if we just buy from US manufacturers.

I agree with this analysis. I have no training in macro economics but logic tells me the a country with a high standard and cost of living cannot compete long term in a global economy with countries that have a low standard of living. It seems to me that eventually they will have to meet some place in the middle.

And I can't understand how some economists claim it's OK to keep increasing the national debt. Doesn't the debt have to go away at some point, maybe by inflation, maybe devaluing the currency, or some other approach?

[Number 10 GI]

In 2008, Hemlock Semiconductor based in Michigan picked Clarksville, TN as the location for a new, $1.2 Billion polycrystalline silicon manufacturing plant. The local university established a course of instruction to educate employees for employment in this industry. In 2014, Hemlock announced they were closing the plant because they couldn't compete with cheaper imports from China. The plant never produced 1 ounce of silicon. Hundreds of jobs were lost. Equipment was sold off as scrap metal. Millions of dollars of public money was lost. People want cheap products and buy foreign made but then complain about low wages and no job opportunities.

[Caymus]

In 2008, Hemlock Semiconductor based in Michigan picked Clarksville, TN as the location for a new, $1.2 Billion polycrystalline silicon manufacturing plant. The local university established a course of instruction to educate employees for employment in this industry. In 2014, Hemlock announced they were closing the plant because they couldn't compete with cheaper imports from China. The plant never produced 1 ounce of silicon. Hundreds of jobs were lost. Equipment was sold off as scrap metal. Millions of dollars of public money was lost. People want cheap products and buy foreign made but then complain about low wages and no job opportunities.

Could also be other reasons. Taiwan Semi is having trouble staffing their new Arizona plant because they claim that Americans are much lazier than native employees.

[Number 10 GI]

Could also be other reasons. Taiwan Semi is having trouble staffing their new Arizona plant because they claim that Americans are much lazier than native employees.

My grandson worked for a brief spell in a Japanese owned auto parts plant in Tennessee. He was new and still trying to get into the groove of working an assembly line. He accidentally dropped a part and when a part was dropped it had to be discarded. A Japanese manager got into his face almost nose to nose and was screaming, at the top of his voice, at him because he dropped the part. Who wants to work under those circumstances. Based on my research and conversations with people who have worked in Asian owned companies with Asian national supervisors, this is typical management style.

The plant in Tennessee had over 400 employees setting up operations in preparation for manufacturing silicon. There was a waiting list of a few thousand people wanting to work for this company. There was no problem with lazy employees.

Hankook Tire has a plant in Clarksville also with over 1,600 employees and there have been no reports of lazy employees. LG, a Korean electronic products manufacturer, has a plant there also with hundreds of employees, no complaints of lazy employees. Nissan has a huge automobile assembly plant in Smyrna, TN employing hundreds of workers. Nissan has no problem retaining people or hiring new employees. My life experiences have shown me that when employees are paid a good wage with good benefits and treated with respect will work hard at their job. Lazy employees is too often a convenient excuse for poor management and poor treatment of the workers.

[Sandy and Ed]

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.
Very true but it could also cause goods made in the US or in the Americas to appear more competitively priced. I have some mixed feelings about tariffs but recall many years ago that the excise taxes on Japanese electronics goods made me look at USA alternatives since price after tax was comparable. Those tariffs would also be going into our coffers, hopefully to benefit our society, and not to bolster China economy and infrastructure

[Marine1974]

Will be interesting to see if there is a surge in imports from China in the next two months, with the likelihood of increased tariffs after that.

A bike tire I ordered on-line two weeks ago was sourced direct from China and arrived yesterday, and I suspect WalMart will have a larger number than usual of huge container ships heading our way.
Tariffs and decreasing the corporate tax to 15% tax on corporations in the US is a great thing for American manufacturing jobs . John Deere was going to move manufacturing to Mexico but now are staying here in the USA . Prices will come down on products manufactured in the US due to the lower tax .

[Two Bills]

Very true but it could also cause goods made in the US or in the Americas to appear more competitively priced. I have some mixed feelings about tariffs but recall many years ago that the excise taxes on Japanese electronics goods made me look at USA alternatives since price after tax was comparable. Those tariffs would also be going into our coffers, hopefully to benefit our society, and not to bolster China economy and infrastructure

Tariffs are paid by importers, then passed onto customers as price rises.
No good ever came from world tariff wars.

[retiredguy123]

U.S. manufacturers can't compete with China because of Government regulations and controls. So, the answer is to impose Government regulations and controls, including tariffs, against China. It doesn't make sense to me.

[midiwiz]

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

Which is why we don't ever shop at Wally world. You also forgot Amazon which should be located in China......

As for price rises, not necessarily. You're missing the chain in that statement, a typical assumption is all that is.

[maistocars]

We need a balance of trade - they tax our goods and we need to do the same to them otherwise we are competing at a disadvantage. It's the right thing to do.

[Haggar]

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

Steve Madden Shoes imports 70% of their shoes from China. They announced yesterday they would be moving 1/2 of their production in China to other countries - Vietnam, Cambodia, Brazil, etc. to avoid high tariffs on Chinese imports.

Not one new job in the US!

If anyone in government thinks that raising tariffs is going to increase manufacturing in the US or going to increase employment in the US or lower costs to consumers .....

[Wondering]

Will be interesting to see if there is a surge in imports from China in the next two months, with the likelihood of increased tariffs after that.

A bike tire I ordered on-line two weeks ago was sourced direct from China and arrived yesterday, and I suspect WalMart will have a larger number than usual of huge container ships heading our way.
Any legitimate economist or financial specialist has stated that tariff's only hurt consumers. Shows you how dumb the person who is pushing for them is in reality. I would be more concerned about the potential increase in produce, meats and dairy when there will be no immigrants to do the work!

[Joe C.]

Most of the manufacturing facilities in China are owned or partially owned and totally controlled and regulated by the Chinese government which is known as the Chinese Communist Party. The CCP employs slave labor, and much of the profit from all these factories is garnished by the military. That is why China now has the worlds largest Navy, and is building warships faster than any country in the world. Their ultimate goal is domination and control worldwide. They love American greed. The "what's in it for me?" attitude that permeates the masses. In the long run, if left unchecked, it will be our downfall.
Buy American when possible. If not, buy Mexican (it employs the Mexicans, and helps keep them south of the border). Otherwise if possible support any country that is an ally of the U.S.

[TheWarriors]

There are lots of things that people consume or purchase, that aren't made in the USA at all. And many of those things that ARE made in the USA, use components that are made in China.

Prices will be going up on just about everything other than LOCAL produce and meats. Why? Because trucks that deliver stuff to the supermarket are made with components that come from China.

In addition, the whole reason we all buy things from China instead of manufacturing here in the first place - is because no one here wants to work for the low wages needed to provide these products to us, for the same prices that we pay from Chinese imports. So we'll be looking at either a) a massive increase in prices for products newly-manufactured in the US to accommodate the pay, insurance, and other expenses involved in having American employees, or b) a massive drop in pay and massive increase in people who can no longer pay their bills.

It's just so myopic to assume that we'll be fine if we just buy from US manufacturers.

Ye, let’s import everything and put everyone out of a job! Funny, maybe tariffs are a way of bringing back some jobs to our Country and having Americans actually pay a little more to have less people on the unemployment line. If you’re not for helping fellow Americans, maybe our way of life doesn’t mean much to you. Just because I can get away with a little theft doesn’t mean I should.

[Rocksnap]

Most of us on here have been walking this planed for a long while.
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed a trend with many things we are being fed that’s just plain wrong.
Every 10 years, we go from global warming to global cooling. If we don’t ‘fix’ this, we are doomed and we all will die.
Well, sea levels have not moved, the global temperature is .4 degrees cooler over the last 2000 years, according to data that’s found in deep ice core samples.
Then there has been the shipping so many jobs to China and other places overseas. All by design. Stop believing the climate alarmists and start bringing back jobs. But that’s just me.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

And greatly increase the price of goods to us. Then we will demand wage increases to keep even. Thus the inflation spiral will begin. When it comes it comes in on an express train.

maybe, but not if China reduces its price to keep undercutting the US prices, like they did last time. The chinese economy is not comparable to the US economy in any way shape or form. Don't confuse simple theory with reality outcomes

[HORNET]

But creat American jobs

[jimhoward]

Tariffs have never worked as intended. proponents hope that tariffs combined with tighter immigration will boost demand for US manufacturing labor and consequently wages and produce more jobs for us citizens. But it doesn’t work that way and it shouldn’t.
But we will see because increased tariffs are definitely coming.

[Cuervo]

I'm not sure what the real solution is but tariffs are not the answer. Most economist have stated that whatever tariff is place on a product it will be the consumer that will pay the price. The problem with America is we are economical society, all of us including myself are always looking for a bargain. We don't care where it's made and who is making it, even if it's children. I love our country, but in China they encourage their people to buy their own home-produced products doing so is considered civil pride. Maybe the government should start a campaign teaching the American people the benefits of purchasing what we make here, even if the price tag is a bit higher.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Which is why we don't ever shop at Wally world. You also forgot Amazon which should be located in China......

As for price rises, not necessarily. You're missing the chain in that statement, a typical assumption is all that is.

Tell ya what. If you subsidize ME, I will join you in never shopping at Walmart again. I'll need around $4000/year in Publix gift cards, and $3000/year in a Visa card so I can buy my shirts, shorts, and Hanes for Hers underwear and socks in Kohl's. So call it $7000/year total. Let me know when to expect the check, I'm looking forward to waving at you in line at Publix.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Ye, let’s import everything and put everyone out of a job! Funny, maybe tariffs are a way of bringing back some jobs to our Country and having Americans actually pay a little more to have less people on the unemployment line. If you’re not for helping fellow Americans, maybe our way of life doesn’t mean much to you. Just because I can get away with a little theft doesn’t mean I should.

Then do as I asked from midwiz who had the same sentiment. Help ME so I can afford to pay a premium for the same stuff I get now for less. If you send me a check, I'll stop buying imports if I can find the same or better quality in the states for more.

My socks are made in the USA, but I'm pretty sure my underwear is made in Vietnam. Both are made by Hanes. I wait until they're on sale and stock up. Some of my shirts are made in India. Some in Vietnam. Most, I believe, are made in China. I can't afford to buy the clothing manufactured by American companies in America. The cheapest shirt I found among a "complete" (not really) list of American-made product manufacturers was $50. I pay $8 for my teeshirts at Walmart, and $24 for my "nice" shirts on Amazon. My Skechers shorts and skorts are made in Indonesia and China, and again - I wait til I find what I like on clearance and pay around $20 each. Or, I do without.

I finally found a pair of sneakers that don't make my neuroma act up and are slip-resistant and incredibly comfortable, at a price-point I can afford once every 2 years. They're made in China.

So. Find me all of these things, made in the USA, for the same price at the same or better quality. OR, send me money so I can afford to pay the premium to buy American.

[Bogie Shooter]

Any legitimate economist or financial specialist has stated that tariff's only hurt consumers. Shows you how dumb the person who is pushing for them is in reality. I would be more concerned about the potential increase in produce, meats and dairy when there will be no immigrants to do the work!
:agree:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm not sure what the real solution is but tariffs are not the answer. Most economist have stated that whatever tariff is place on a product it will be the consumer that will pay the price. The problem with America is we are economical society, all of us including myself are always looking for a bargain. We don't care where it's made and who is making it, even if it's children. I love our country, but in China they encourage their people to buy their own home-produced products doing so is considered civil pride. Maybe the government should start a campaign teaching the American people the benefits of purchasing what we make here, even if the price tag is a bit higher.

Not everyone can AFFORD the higher price.

[Cuervo]

Not everyone can AFFORD the higher price.

I understand your concern, but if we focus more on buying our own products unemployment will drop across the board and wages will rise. Today a person buys a product manufactured from a foreign country, that means one less American employee and that also means one less shopper to purchase whatever your employer is selling. Buying American products is a win, win, situation for everyone. Tariffs will end up with prices going up anyway and if you remember the last time we went down this road China retaliated and started importing soybeans from South America hurting U.S. farmers.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I understand your concern, but if we focus more on buying our own products unemployment will drop across the board and wages will rise. Today a person buys a product manufactured from a foreign country, that means one less American employee and that also means one less shopper to purchase whatever your employer is selling. Buying American products is a win, win, situation for everyone. Tariffs will end up with prices going up anyway and if you remember the last time we went down this road China retaliated and started importing soybeans from South America hurting U.S. farmers.

Once again. Send me money so I can afford to buy the higher-priced American-made version of whatever I get for less from a Chinese-made product of similar quality.

I'm glad there are American companies that make sneakers for Americans, like New Balance. However - none of their styles are suitable for my feet. So even if I could get them for less than I pay for my Merrel's, I won't buy them. The Merrels are made in China. They're $85. They fit me perfectly, comfortably, don't weigh a ton, look decent with almost everything I wear, and have a wide enough toe box that I don't suffer after walking around for an hour. Find me the same made in America for $85 or less, and I will buy it.

Til then, I guess someone in the USA will have to flip burgers instead of making sneakers. Or maybe get some training and learn to do something more rewarding than making sneakers for a living.

[ThirdOfFive]

Might be painful for some in the short run, but I agree with Post #6. Much ado about not much. Whatever tariffs are imposed, will be targeted. The sky will NOT fall.

Looking long-term, this only Strengthens America. America won WW 2 for the allies, much as it pains our European friends to admit it. But we didn't win it on the battlefield. Many Axis forces were better-trained, better led, and (at the beginning of the war, anyway) better equipped. But we were in the war economically for about two years before we were ever in it militarily. I forget the lend-lease numbers but translated into today's dollars, they were astronomical. Not just military hardware but things like food, medical supplies, etc. went to the allies in vast amounts long before Dec. 8, 1941. When we did enter the battle we did so with an overwhelming economic powerhouse back home churning out guns, aircraft, tanks, ships, etc. at an incredible rate. I forget the liberty ship numbers but we were cranking them out faster than we could fill them. as far as military equipment went, my numbers might be a bit off but they do indicate the big picture. Aircraft carriers: at the beginning of the war we had very few if any. Japan had four major ones. At the end of the was the carrier war was Japan 0. America over 100! The same for the european theater: The Sherman tanks were pretty easy targets for the Axis, particularly towards the end of things with their Tiger and King Tiger tanks. But our numbers were overwhelming. No matter how fast the axis destroyed them, they just kept coming in ever-increasing numbers.

The point is this. Could we, with so much of our manufacturing done overseas (and a lot by potential enemies) rise to the occasion if necessary, as we did in WW 2? I doubt it.

[retiredguy123]

I understand your concern, but if we focus more on buying our own products unemployment will drop across the board and wages will rise. Today a person buys a product manufactured from a foreign country, that means one less American employee and that also means one less shopper to purchase whatever your employer is selling. Buying American products is a win, win, situation for everyone. Tariffs will end up with prices going up anyway and if you remember the last time we went down this road China retaliated and started importing soybeans from South America hurting U.S. farmers.
Call me skeptical, but I can think of so many reasons why the U.S. cannot compete for product prices with China, I don't know where to start. And, most Americans only care about the getting the lowest price. Some of the reasons U.S. prices are higher are: unions, minimum wages, safety rules, environmental rules, standard of living expectations, work benefits, employment taxes, employer health care mandates, lawsuits, etc., etc., etc.

[Joe C.]

How about this?
Instead of imposing tarriffs on Chinese goods, maybe we should just prohibit certain Chinese made products from entering and being sold in this country. It might slow down Wal-Mart just a bit, but do we really care?

[Cuervo]

Once again. Send me money so I can afford to buy the higher-priced American-made version of whatever I get for less from a Chinese-made product of similar quality.

I'm glad there are American companies that make sneakers for Americans, like New Balance. However - none of their styles are suitable for my feet. So even if I could get them for less than I pay for my Merrel's, I won't buy them. The Merrels are made in China. They're $85. They fit me perfectly, comfortably, don't weigh a ton, look decent with almost everything I wear, and have a wide enough toe box that I don't suffer after walking around for an hour. Find me the same made in America for $85 or less, and I will buy it.

Til then, I guess someone in the USA will have to flip burgers instead of making sneakers. Or maybe get some training and learn to do something more rewarding than making sneakers for a living.

I'm not suggesting you have to buy something that does not meet your needs, what I'm simply saying is if there is a product of equal quality on the shelf and it is a bit more expensive because it is made in America in the long run you will benefit more by spending the extra money. The more people that are employed in the U.S. the better we all are. Every time an American employee is added, that is a new shopper, it's sort of a chain reaction.

[Cuervo]

Call me skeptical, but I can think of so many reasons why the U.S. cannot compete for product prices with China, I don't know where to start. And, most Americans only care about the getting the lowest price. Some of the reasons U.S. prices are highers are: unions, minimum wages, safety rules, environmental rules, standard of living expectations, work benefits, employment taxes, employer health care mandates, lawsuits, etc., etc., etc.

Yes, you are correct that is why prices are higher, but the alternative is something I don't think you would want for yourself. Low wages, no safety protection in the workplace and giving companies the freedom to be as negligent as they please without the fear of lawsuits.
This country has a history of companies putting their employees in dangers to increase their profits.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

How about this?
Instead of imposing tarriffs on Chinese goods, maybe we should just prohibit certain Chinese made products from entering and being sold in this country. It might slow down Wal-Mart just a bit, but do we really care?

Wal-mart is where millions of people in this country can AFFORD to buy things that they need for their homes and their families. Like it or not, this country can't afford to buy American. If we could, then Wal-mart wouldn't have done so well decades after they first set up shop here.

Why would I pay $3 for a can of beans, when I can get the exact same can of beans, same size and flavor, for $1.80? Why should I pay $3.54 for a half-gallon of 2% milk at Publix when I can get a half-gallon of 2% milk for $2.45 at Wal-mart? Sure, it's just a few cents. But when you add up every item that you're saving a few cents on, then multiply it by 52 weeks you're buying it every year, you're looking at a couple thousand bucks worth of groceries that you can afford to buy.

Take those couple thousand bucks away, and you're looking at people who live on a budget, having to stop buying ANY fresh foods, buying $1.25 chicken pot pies instead of wholesome foods, using powdered milk instead of real dairy, and eating a LOT of rice and beans. Those families who are already unfortunate to be in that situation, would now have to decide which of their family members will go without lunch.

Inflation happens, no matter who is running the country. People have to pay more, but their opportunities to earn more are not as good as they were in the 1960's and 1970's. The concept of the "company man" who spends most of his adult life in one place of employment, whose employer looks after their employees, has gone the way of the dodo.

Entire party venues have gone out of business because they no longer get the annual picnics that corporations once booked them for. The "culture" of employment has changed. The lifestyles of families relying on one income have changed, and those relying on two incomes has changed. If you're wealthy, NONE of this applies to you, and you have no experience of anything the rest of the country has to endure.

But for those of us who aren't "struggling" - but are trying to maintain a "comfortable" lifestyle while not being wealthy - are having trouble doing so. For us, Wal-mart is a godsend. Walmart is the REASON why I can afford to get good beef at Publix. Walmart is the REASON we can spend money at local restaurants every so often. By saving money on groceries and other essentials, we have more available to spend somewhere else.

If you take that away, you'll see a lot of people like me, no longer spending our money outside the grocery store. We live in a global economy, whether we want to or not. And so some of us choose to make the best of what we have.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm not suggesting you have to buy something that does not meet your needs, what I'm simply saying is if there is a product of equal quality on the shelf and it is a bit more expensive because it is made in America in the long run you will benefit more by spending the extra money. The more people that are employed in the U.S. the better we all are. Every time an American employee is added, that is a new shopper, it's sort of a chain reaction.

No, I won't. Because it means I'll have less to spend on something else.

[Number 10 GI]

The only way U.S. consumers will have to pay more because of a tariff, is if they buy Chinese made products.

[Acordionist]

Will be interesting to see if there is a surge in imports from China in the next two months, with the likelihood of increased tariffs after that.

A bike tire I ordered on-line two weeks ago was sourced direct from China and arrived yesterday, and I suspect WalMart will have a larger number than usual of huge container ships heading our way.

Some people do not seem to understand that a 20% tariff on imports from China means a
higher price for the consumer on the items coming from that country i.e. a TV set that costs at Walmart $500 now will cost $600 after the tariffs. In short, it will harm both consumers as well as the the Chinese manufacturers that will experience a lesser volume of sales

[Bill14564]

The only way U.S. consumers will have to pay more because of a tariff, is if they buy Chinese made products.

1. That may be the only product available

2. If it isn’t the only product available then US consumers were buying it due to its lower price

3. When tariffs are imposed US consumers will either pay more or do without

[Pairadocs]

If tariffs go from 25% to 60% that will greatly affect Chinese imports. Watching closely.

That would definitely be the demise of Chinese outlet stores here, like the $1.25 tree stores, and a number of others. To me the bottom line question is, will the American public actually accept the "pain" along with the aspect of gaining a strong, self-sufficient, country again. This is so incredibly complicated and all factors are interwoven. Illegals for instance, mass deportation and strong border guarding will reduce the number of workers available to butcher and cut meat, to clean hotel rooms, to put on new roofs and mow lawns. That will open jobs for millions on our welfare roles. But.... will Americans in general be willing to pay more for those hotel rooms just because the hotel maids will once again be mainly English speaking (like when I was a kid, on vacation with my parents, we talked with the person cleaning our room, would compliment them, etc.) ? It will come with a price, it will be interesting to see how many of us are willing to put our money where our mouth, the mouth always complaining about the loss of jobs, poor quality of so many goods (how many of your parents had a refrigerator that was still running just fine after 22 years ? Mine sure did ! ), and complain about the real cost of having "cheap labor" which often turns out not to be so cheap after all when things like medical, crowded schools, crowded hospitals, welfare, etc. is all added up ? A lot to think about, a lot to tackle !

[Number 10 GI]

1. That may be the only product available

2. If it isn’t the only product available then US consumers were buying it due to its lower price

3. When tariffs are imposed US consumers will either pay more or do without

So where do we draw the line? The more cheap Chinese products we buy the more manufacturing plants in the U.S. either close or move their operations overseas for cheaper labor. Where are U.S. citizens going to get the money to buy cheap Chinese made products if there are no jobs? Manufacturing was a big part in the creation of the middle class in this country.
A few years back I visited a friend in Connecticut. The town he lived in was a very prosperous place to live and work. Not any longer! He drove me around the town pointing out numerous shuttered manufacturing facilities that closed due to cheap Chinese products. All there is now are low paying service industry jobs. Gotta have those cheap products!

[Bill14564]

So where do we draw the line? The more cheap Chinese products we buy the more manufacturing plants in the U.S. either close or move their operations overseas for cheaper labor. Where are U.S. citizens going to get the money to buy cheap Chinese made products if there are no jobs? Manufacturing was a big part in the creation of the middle class in this country.
A few years back I visited a friend in Connecticut. The town he lived in was a very prosperous place to live and work. Not any longer! He drove me around the town pointing out numerous shuttered manufacturing facilities that closed due to cheap Chinese products. All there is now are low paying service industry jobs. Gotta have those cheap products!

Hey, impose policies that drive production back home even if it results in higher prices. No problem, the end result might be worth the pain. But don’t pretend (or lie) that there won’t be pain.

[Caymus]

Much of this will depend on what the government does with the tariff money. Will they pay down the debt or waste it?

Will need to see the effect on employment numbers. I am always amaze at how much of the economy is based on marketing and distributing foreign made products. Many of these consumer products are non-essential.

[biker1]

I doubt there is any color to the money from tariffs. Regardless, we are probably talking about a few hundreds of billions of dollars, potentially. This is relatively small potatoes when we will be paying over 1 trillion to service the debt.

Much of this will depend on what the government does with the tariff money. Will they pay down the debt or waste it?

Will need to see the effect on employment numbers. I am always amaze at how much of the economy is based on marketing and distributing foreign made products. Many of these consumer products are non-essential.

[KAM+6]

Any legitimate economist or financial specialist has stated that tariff's only hurt consumers. Shows you how dumb the person who is pushing for them is in reality. I would be more concerned about the potential increase in produce, meats and dairy when there will be no immigrants to do the work!
:boom::boom:
You hit the nail on the head!!! Exactly

[LianneMigiano]

I just read of a manufacturing employer who just announced to his entire staff that there was not going to be any Christmas bonus this year due to his need to secure equipment and goods instead - prior to the implementation of tariffs.

[Topspinmo]

That's the plan, but it doesn't always work. Supposed to "level the playing field" so imports don't have unfair price advantage over US goods.

Can’t compete with China labor average 16K year or 5.25 Mexico hourly wage. They free trade agreements was fair was it.

[SoCalGal]

Temu cutting into Amazon profits was already in the works before the election. We can figure out why.

I've ordered hundreds of times from Temu with few if any disappointments. But if a product isn't as described, I have only to request a refund. I get one within seconds without having to return the product--provided, that is, that the product is inexpensively priced. Perhaps Amazon needs a bit of direct competition.

[SoCalGal]

Will they let them out to mow our lawns and keep TV beautiful.?

As long as they're legal, sure.

The plan is to use tariffs to offset tax hikes to the American people, thereby replacing taxable income to the U.S. Treasury with tariff revenue. I haven't read an analysis of this strategy but it would certainly be unique.

[SoCalGal]

They free trade agreements was fair was it.

What?

[SoCalGal]

How about this? Instead of imposing tariffs on Chinese goods, maybe we should just prohibit certain Chinese-made products from entering and being sold in this country. It might slow down Wal-Mart just a bit, but do we really care?

Prescription drugs are one of them. It's outrageous that the U.S. relies on a foreign country for life-saving drugs. How stupid can you get?

[tophcfa]

Can’t compete with China labor average 16K year or 5.25 Mexico hourly wage.

Yup, that and no environmental controls allow them to make stuff much cheaper than we can. Even when the cost of transporting goods half way across the planet is added, still much cheaper. Tariffs will help even the pricing playing field, but will also contribute to inflation.

[eyc234]

So who do you blame for all the good sourced from overseas?

The people who just look at the cheap price vs. the quality and origin of the goods…..or the manufacturers who outsourced the goods because they didn’t want to pay a fair wage (and benefits) to the American workers…..or the US manufacturers who did not have smart and creative employees (due to a poor educational system) to develop new cutting “edge technology”to the market.

When was the last time you sought out goods made in American and knowingly paid more for them ?

Also, who do you think is paying all those tariffs? We are, the consumer.

Don’t blame China or the rest of the world, they are just filling a need.

:bigbow::bigbow: Simple economics, Americans want cheap and will not pay for higher cost goods. There is a reason WalMart, Amazon, Dollar stores, Temu and others outside are huge, cheap goods for cheap price. Not saying it is good or bad, just a fact. Same will happen for groceries when the labor that produces them is eliminated prices will climb. Home prices will go up when laborers that do all the real work leave.

[eyc234]

As long as they're legal, sure.

The plan is to use tariffs to offset tax hikes to the American people, thereby replacing taxable income to the U.S. Treasury with tariff revenue. I haven't read an analysis of this strategy but it would certainly be unique.

So paying more for goods is going to help the public offset tax hikes. Sounds more like a double tax. If the cost of getting goods onto store shelves go up the cost of those goods will go up. How is that good for the public.

[blueash]

Understanding that tariffs, a form of a tax, will absolutely increase the cost of those products as the importer has higher costs.. those costs will be passed to the consumer, while the tariff imposed is collected by the Federal treasury. So now the US gov't has more money, but the consumer has less. This is another example of a regressive tax as consumers get hit but those who are not consuming, the 1%ers who are saving and investing not buying with most of their income are not being taxed. So the tax burden is imposed on those who can least afford it and the benefit of not needing to consider a higher marginal rate from the rich benefits who??

[Taltarzac725]

Understanding that tariffs, a form of a tax, will absolutely increase the cost of those products as the importer has higher costs.. those costs will be passed to the consumer, while the tariff imposed is collected by the Federal treasury. So now the US gov't has more money, but the consumer has less. This is another example of a regressive tax as consumers get hit but those who are not consuming, the 1%ers who are saving and investing not buying with most of their income are not being taxed. So the tax burden is imposed on those who can least afford it and the benefit of not needing to consider a higher marginal rate from the rich benefits who??

Nicely put.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Understanding that tariffs, a form of a tax, will absolutely increase the cost of those products as the importer has higher costs.. those costs will be passed to the consumer, while the tariff imposed is collected by the Federal treasury. So now the US gov't has more money, but the consumer has less. This is another example of a regressive tax as consumers get hit but those who are not consuming, the 1%ers who are saving and investing not buying with most of their income are not being taxed. So the tax burden is imposed on those who can least afford it and the benefit of not needing to consider a higher marginal rate from the rich benefits who??

It benefits the people who don't care, because they can afford to pay more for everything and still have plenty left over for their kids to inherit.

Everyone else takes a dive, whether they understand how tariffs work or not.

[kkingston57]

Any legitimate economist or financial specialist has stated that tariff's only hurt consumers. Shows you how dumb the person who is pushing for them is in reality. I would be more concerned about the potential increase in produce, meats and dairy when there will be no immigrants to do the work!

Next couple of years will be interesting. Worst part is that we have not had a recession in a long time and are inevitable in business cycles. As usual the young un educated people are affected the most.

[kkingston57]

Most of the manufacturing facilities in China are owned or partially owned and totally controlled and regulated by the Chinese government which is known as the Chinese Communist Party. The CCP employs slave labor, and much of the profit from all these factories is garnished by the military. That is why China now has the worlds largest Navy, and is building warships faster than any country in the world. Their ultimate goal is domination and control worldwide. They love American greed. The "what's in it for me?" attitude that permeates the masses. In the long run, if left unchecked, it will be our downfall.
Buy American when possible. If not, buy Mexican (it employs the Mexicans, and helps keep them south of the border). Otherwise if possible support any country that is an ally of the U.S.

Suggest taking the time to find the product made in the US and when you find it you will need to fork up more money for that same product.

[PersonOfInterest]

Thank you Villages Economists.

[TheWarriors]

Then do as I asked from midwiz who had the same sentiment. Help ME so I can afford to pay a premium for the same stuff I get now for less. If you send me a check, I'll stop buying imports if I can find the same or better quality in the states for more.

My socks are made in the USA, but I'm pretty sure my underwear is made in Vietnam. Both are made by Hanes. I wait until they're on sale and stock up. Some of my shirts are made in India. Some in Vietnam. Most, I believe, are made in China. I can't afford to buy the clothing manufactured by American companies in America. The cheapest shirt I found among a "complete" (not really) list of American-made product manufacturers was $50. I pay $8 for my teeshirts at Walmart, and $24 for my "nice" shirts on Amazon. My Skechers shorts and skorts are made in Indonesia and China, and again - I wait til I find what I like on clearance and pay around $20 each. Or, I do without.

I finally found a pair of sneakers that don't make my neuroma act up and are slip-resistant and incredibly comfortable, at a price-point I can afford once every 2 years. They're made in China.

So. Find me all of these things, made in the USA, for the same price at the same or better quality. OR, send me money so I can afford to pay the premium to buy American.

That is just proof the past policies really didn’t work and you are an example of why we shouldn’t continue to ship jobs out of the Country. Many don’t care until it is their job and finances. Just wait until AI takes hold, the number of unemployed Lawyers, Accountants, Investment Analyst, etc, will skyrocket. If your job doesn’t include some hands on activity with people (Nurses, Plumbers, Doctors, Electricians, etc.) plan on large pay reductions and finally the unemployment line.

[Ptmcbriz]

If tariffs…then you can buy US made. That’s the plan right?

US doesn’t manufacture most things we bring in from China.

[graciegirl]

The idea of manufacturing goods in the U.S. may sound good, but people will always buy the cheapest products regardless of where they are made.

In certain situations, I totally agree with this statement. People are looking out for their family, their money, when they shop with price in mind. If you learn to be careful with your money, you will be able to take care of yourself and your family.

And if I continue, someone is gonna get mad at me for being political.

[Ptmcbriz]

IMO much ado about not much.

I feel that many of these tariffs will be targeted, and not sweeping anti-China etc.

For sure, vehicles from China and probably Mexico would be targeted - as they should be.

We DO need to manufacture MUCH more in our domestic production, especially critical pharmaceutical etc.

Our country needs to be completely prepared and focus on OUR country. So many others have taken advantage of us over the years. Especially allowing Corps et al to run amok exporting jobs and enriching themselves despite endangering the country.

Myself, I'll wait and see what happens. The sky is NOT falling. IMO the clouds are opening and the sun will shine brighter.

Every American made car requires parts that are manufactured in other countries to finish their assembly. There is no such thing as a 100% US manufactured car anymore. We simply don’t gave the manufacturer plants here anymore and it takes 5-8 years to build plants and train personnel for them. We are in for a world of hurt as Elon stated “necessary hardships “ ahead.

[Sgt Ed]

IMO much ado about not much.

I feel that many of these tariffs will be targeted, and not sweeping anti-China etc.

For sure, vehicles from China and probably Mexico would be targeted - as they should be.

We DO need to manufacture MUCH more in our domestic production, especially critical pharmaceutical etc.

Our country needs to be completely prepared and focus on OUR country. So many others have taken advantage of us over the years. Especially allowing Corps et al to run amok exporting jobs and enriching themselves despite endangering the country.

Myself, I'll wait and see what happens. The sky is NOT falling. IMO the clouds are opening and the sun will shine brighter. I agree that we need to bring industry and manufacturing back to the States. Look at the political situation with China today. Militarly they are VERY aggressive and if things happen we will be out of luck. We can not have another country have the upper hands in our products. Look what Wal Mart did to every small business in the country. The coffee is brewing, wake up and smell it.

[Ptmcbriz]

Wal-mart is where millions of people in this country can AFFORD to buy things that they need for their homes and their families. Like it or not, this country can't afford to buy American. If we could, then Wal-mart wouldn't have done so well decades after they first set up shop here.

Why would I pay $3 for a can of beans, when I can get the exact same can of beans, same size and flavor, for $1.80? Why should I pay $3.54 for a half-gallon of 2% milk at Publix when I can get a half-gallon of 2% milk for $2.45 at Wal-mart? Sure, it's just a few cents. But when you add up every item that you're saving a few cents on, then multiply it by 52 weeks you're buying it every year, you're looking at a couple thousand bucks worth of groceries that you can afford to buy.

Take those couple thousand bucks away, and you're looking at people who live on a budget, having to stop buying ANY fresh foods, buying $1.25 chicken pot pies instead of wholesome foods, using powdered milk instead of real dairy, and eating a LOT of rice and beans. Those families who are already unfortunate to be in that situation, would now have to decide which of their family members will go without lunch.

Inflation happens, no matter who is running the country. People have to pay more, but their opportunities to earn more are not as good as they were in the 1960's and 1970's. The concept of the "company man" who spends most of his adult life in one place of employment, whose employer looks after their employees, has gone the way of the dodo.

Entire party venues have gone out of business because they no longer get the annual picnics that corporations once booked them for. The "culture" of employment has changed. The lifestyles of families relying on one income have changed, and those relying on two incomes has changed. If you're wealthy, NONE of this applies to you, and you have no experience of anything the rest of the country has to endure.

But for those of us who aren't "struggling" - but are trying to maintain a "comfortable" lifestyle while not being wealthy - are having trouble doing so. For us, Wal-mart is a godsend. Walmart is the REASON why I can afford to get good beef at Publix. Walmart is the REASON we can spend money at local restaurants every so often. By saving money on groceries and other essentials, we have more available to spend somewhere else.

If you take that away, you'll see a lot of people like me, no longer spending our money outside the grocery store. We live in a global economy, whether we want to or not. And so some of us choose to make the best of what we have.

Oh it’s not just the tariffs that will raise prices, wait until there are no migrant workers to pick all the fresh fruit and vegetables in the fields. Who will pick them? Americans won’t do the job. Wait for your hand picked tomato costs $10 each, IF you can even get any because they have rotted in the fields unpicked.

[retiredguy123]

Oh it’s not just the tariffs that will raise prices, wait until there are no migrant workers to pick all the fresh fruit and vegetables in the fields. Who will pick them? Americans won’t do the job. Wait for your hand picked tomato costs $10 each, IF you can even get any because they have rotted in the fields unpicked.
Isn't it illegal to pay migrants less than the minimum wage, to not withhold the FICA taxes, or to not provide other mandatory employee benefits? It seems to me that the legal way to do it is to import the tomatoes.

[opinionist]

Tariffs are intended to bring jobs back into the United States, thereby balancing trade. An additional benefit is a reduction in taxes. If the size of government can be cut by 80%, then taxes can be reduced to zero like in the 1800s. Since 80% of the government is not within the enumerated powers limited by the Constitution, the reduction is required by law. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Every American made car requires parts that are manufactured in other countries to finish their assembly. There is no such thing as a 100% US manufactured car anymore. We simply don’t gave the manufacturer plants here anymore and it takes 5-8 years to build plants and train personnel for them. We are in for a world of hurt as Elon stated “necessary hardships “ ahead.

Except for Elon. He is in for a world of whirlwind profits. Such a coincidence that he backs this idea 100%, don'tcha think?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I agree that we need to bring industry and manufacturing back to the States. Look at the political situation with China today. Militarly they are VERY aggressive and if things happen we will be out of luck. We can not have another country have the upper hands in our products. Look what Wal Mart did to every small business in the country. The coffee is brewing, wake up and smell it.

My coffee comes from Brazil, Columbia, Nicaragua, and Mexico. But the bags my coffee is packaged in, is made in China. Yours probably is too. Enjoy your new $4/cup kpods.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Isn't it illegal to pay migrants less than the minimum wage, to not withhold the FICA taxes, or to not provide other mandatory employee benefits? It seems to me that the legal way to do it is to import the tomatoes.

Well then we need to just all stop eating tomatoes then, since the whole point of this thread is to encourage people to buy American-made only to avoid tariffs.

The plan is to yes - impose tariffs on China. But the plan also includes ALL imports, not just Chinese imports. Anything that comes in from outside our borders will have a tariff - a price hike - attached to it.

Y'all need to start saving up.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Tariffs are intended to bring jobs back into the United States, thereby balancing trade. An additional benefit is a reduction in taxes. If the size of government can be cut by 80%, then taxes can be reduced to zero like in the 1800s. Since 80% of the government is not within the enumerated powers limited by the Constitution, the reduction is required by law. It will be interesting to see what happens.

My taxes are less than my expenses. The cost of inflation is higher than any taxes saved, for MOST Americans. Only the wealthiest will benefit from this "trickle down" concept. This was proven in the Reagan Administration.

Also, in the 1800's, businesses didn't have the expense of paying their workers, or paying unemployment insurance, providing health insurance, workers compensation. Why not? Because they OWNED those workers. The workers were slaves. If they worked themselves to death, they became fertilizer and were replaced with a fresh batch right off the boat.

Actually hired employees were paid pennies, most of them worked 10-12 hour shifts just to afford to live in squalor. Disease was common, health care was mostly non-existent and experimental. Indoor plumbing was considered a luxury for the wealthy.

Not interested in going back to the 1800's, but I'm sure there are some Amish farms in the US you could move to, to enjoy that lifestyle if you really want it.

[Caymus]

That is just proof the past policies really didn’t work and you are an example of why we shouldn’t continue to ship jobs out of the Country. Many don’t care until it is their job and finances. Just wait until AI takes hold, the number of unemployed Lawyers, Accountants, Investment Analyst, etc, will skyrocket. If your job doesn’t include some hands on activity with people (Nurses, Plumbers, Doctors, Electricians, etc.) plan on large pay reductions and finally the unemployment line.

So, Boeing machinists will not be getting the 38% pay increase(over 4 years) or the $12,000 signing bonus?

[SoCalGal]

So who do you blame for all the goods sourced overseas?

Richard Nixon: His visit to China in 1972 was crucial in thawing U.S.-China relations after years of isolation. While this opened diplomatic channels, it was more about normalizing relations rather than directly promoting trade.

Jimmy Carter: He furthered the normalization process by officially establishing diplomatic relations with China in 1979, which facilitated increased trade but was more about political engagement.

Bill Clinton: He played a significant role in the normalization of trade relations with China, especially by signing into law the U.S.-China Relations Act in 2000, which paved the way for China's entry into the WTO in December 2001. However, this was more about facilitating China's integration into global trade frameworks rather than initiating China's trade engagement.

[ElDiabloJoe]

The thing about less expensive stuff from China, is that China has a loonnnggg history of corporate espionage, stealing our R&D and then ignoring intellectual property rights.

They have very cleverly (and purposefully) placed their students into our top research universities and aerospace companies since at least the 1980's. How do you think they went from complete isolation in the 1970's (Nixon era's ping-pong diplomacy) to nearly matching our jet, nuclear sub, and aircraft carrier technologies? I know they are historically credited with creating fireworks (gun powder) and pasta, but I suspect they stole those from other cultures hundreds of years ago also. Aside from art or literature, I cannot think of anything modern they have actually invested in, developed, and created from scratch. They are thieves of other cultures.

From my previous professional life, I have first hand experience they have sent over hundreds of pregnant women to have their babies born as U.S. citizens, only to return them to China shortly after birth. Imagine! Future Chinese government officials and military officers who are also American citizens who cannot be denied access or employment.

This may sound far-fetched, or paranoid, or "conspiracy-theory" to some but look back over the last 5 decades. China and Chinese citizens have almost always played the long game. Remember the old saying, "Three generations from Shanghai to Stanford?"

We have caught many of their government and military members and their families acting on China's behalf in our country. Even Nancy Pelosi's chauffeur and the New York Governor's Chief of Staff. Here's the thing: you send over one Romanian gymnast or one Cuban baseball player or one Russian ballerina, and they are slipping their handlers and seeking asylum. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese in America, from one of the most repressive communist nations on the globe, and no one is seeking asylum? Why is that? Family members at home threatened with imprisonment and torture, maybe? They've set up police stations on United States territory for the sole purpose of enforcing their laws on their citizens who are here for God's sake!

If one doesn't see the danger of casually buying Chinese stuff, even though it is cheaper, I fear one is short-sighted, anti-American, or ignorant. Maybe all three. Essentially you're buying cheaper things (cameras, electronics, pharmaceuticals, etc.) that were stolen from us in the first place, and now you're helping them make their thefts profitable. We're buying back from the thieves the very things they stole from us. They think we are suckers coming and going. They are right.

They are giving us something though. New York City has 2.5 times the national average in T.B. cases. A staggering 89% of their T.B. cases are from foreign born immigrants. According to New York City's most recent Annual Tuberculosis Survey, the largest single origin country of that 89%? Chinese immigrants. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/tb/tuberculosis-in-new-york-city-2022-annual-report.pdf

Do I still buy things that are Chinese made that I can't find made in America? Yes, but I do so knowing full well I have little other option. I will pay more for American made when I have the opportunity to do so, and I strongly encourage you to do the same.

[jimjamuser]

If tariffs…then you can buy US made. That’s the plan right?
How long will it take for the US to switch to making the things that China makes? One year? 5 years?

[jimjamuser]

IMO much ado about not much.

I feel that many of these tariffs will be targeted, and not sweeping anti-China etc.

For sure, vehicles from China and probably Mexico would be targeted - as they should be.

We DO need to manufacture MUCH more in our domestic production, especially critical pharmaceutical etc.

Our country needs to be completely prepared and focus on OUR country. So many others have taken advantage of us over the years. Especially allowing Corps et al to run amok exporting jobs and enriching themselves despite endangering the country.

Myself, I'll wait and see what happens. The sky is NOT falling. IMO the clouds are opening and the sun will shine brighter.
I agree about the "critical pharmaceutical". And "Corporations enriching themselves."

[jimjamuser]

And greatly increase the price of goods to us. Then we will demand wage increases to keep even. Thus the inflation spiral will begin. When it comes it comes in on an express train.
That's why top economists are against the concept.

[eyc234]

I understand your concern, but if we focus more on buying our own products unemployment will drop across the board and wages will rise. Today a person buys a product manufactured from a foreign country, that means one less American employee and that also means one less shopper to purchase whatever your employer is selling. Buying American products is a win, win, situation for everyone. Tariffs will end up with prices going up anyway and if you remember the last time we went down this road China retaliated and started importing soybeans from South America hurting U.S. farmers.

Without all wages going up how is anyone going to afford these no existent American made products. The last time the US hit China as stated and stopped buying Soybeans from the US the US government had to give farmer $18 billion to keep them from going under. That money was our tax money that should never have been needed to prop up farmers. On top of all this we would not have enough workers to fill half the new jobs that would come back to America.

[jimjamuser]

So who do you blame for all the good sourced from overseas?

The people who just look at the cheap price vs. the quality and origin of the goods…..or the manufacturers who outsourced the goods because they didn’t want to pay a fair wage (and benefits) to the American workers…..or the US manufacturers who did not have smart and creative employees (due to a poor educational system) to develop new cutting “edge technology”to the market.

When was the last time you sought out goods made in American and knowingly paid more for them ?

Also, who do you think is paying all those tariffs? We are, the consumer.

Don’t blame China or the rest of the world, they are just filling a need.
We should blame the poor US public school system (keeping property taxes down for the benefit of large property owners). Also to blame is the US healthcare system controlled by insurance executives and NOT Medical Doctors.

[jimjamuser]

There are lots of things that people consume or purchase, that aren't made in the USA at all. And many of those things that ARE made in the USA, use components that are made in China.

Prices will be going up on just about everything other than LOCAL produce and meats. Why? Because trucks that deliver stuff to the supermarket are made with components that come from China.

In addition, the whole reason we all buy things from China instead of manufacturing here in the first place - is because no one here wants to work for the low wages needed to provide these products to us, for the same prices that we pay from Chinese imports. So we'll be looking at either a) a massive increase in prices for products newly-manufactured in the US to accommodate the pay, insurance, and other expenses involved in having American employees, or b) a massive drop in pay and massive increase in people who can no longer pay their bills.

It's just so myopic to assume that we'll be fine if we just buy from US manufacturers.
The US has an edge in robotics and A.I. For labor, machines have advantages over human labor. Examples would be no sick leave, no health care costs, no transportation to work, and no personality friction.

[JMintzer]

US doesn’t manufacture most things we bring in from China.

You forgot to add "anymore"...

[JMintzer]

Oh it’s not just the tariffs that will raise prices, wait until there are no migrant workers to pick all the fresh fruit and vegetables in the fields. Who will pick them? Americans won’t do the job. Wait for your hand picked tomato costs $10 each, IF you can even get any because they have rotted in the fields unpicked.

Why will there no longer be "migrant workers"?

The US issues hundreds of thousands of migrant agricultural visas each and every year... No one has ever suggested that program should or will stop...

[jimjamuser]

Tariffs and decreasing the corporate tax to 15% tax on corporations in the US is a great thing for American manufacturing jobs . John Deere was going to move manufacturing to Mexico but now are staying here in the USA . Prices will come down on products manufactured in the US due to the lower tax .
That's probably true, but US executives may keep a lot of that tax money. And the US government will get less tax REVENUE. So the national debt MAY (?) go up and/or government agencies that provide help and support for middle class citizens may go away. Or both things may happen ?

[jimjamuser]

Any legitimate economist or financial specialist has stated that tariff's only hurt consumers. Shows you how dumb the person who is pushing for them is in reality. I would be more concerned about the potential increase in produce, meats and dairy when there will be no immigrants to do the work!
Immigrants keep the cost of labor DOWN for the BIG employers and raise up the costs of education, rents, road traffic, and hospital costs. The US needs to determine its most efficient population.

[jimjamuser]

Most of the manufacturing facilities in China are owned or partially owned and totally controlled and regulated by the Chinese government which is known as the Chinese Communist Party. The CCP employs slave labor, and much of the profit from all these factories is garnished by the military. That is why China now has the worlds largest Navy, and is building warships faster than any country in the world. Their ultimate goal is domination and control worldwide. They love American greed. The "what's in it for me?" attitude that permeates the masses. In the long run, if left unchecked, it will be our downfall.
Buy American when possible. If not, buy Mexican (it employs the Mexicans, and helps keep them south of the border). Otherwise if possible support any country that is an ally of the U.S.
We should start many factories in all the South American countries in order to keep those population from traveling north.

[JMintzer]

We should start many factories in all the South American countries in order to keep those population from traveling north.

How's that working after all the factories we started in Mexico?

[retiredguy123]

Immigrants keep the cost of labor DOWN for the BIG employers and raise up the costs of education, rents, road traffic, and hospital costs. The US needs to determine its most efficient population.
As I understand it, the Florida minimum wage is $13 per hour plus the FICA taxes of about 7 percent, so a migrant worker makes about $30K per year. Also, the employer must offer affordable health insurance for the worker as per the ACA law. Are you suggesting that employers are not compling with these requirements?

[Bogie Shooter]

How long will it take for the US to switch to making the things that China makes? One year? 5 years?

My point exactly………too long .

[jimjamuser]

Ye, let’s import everything and put everyone out of a job! Funny, maybe tariffs are a way of bringing back some jobs to our Country and having Americans actually pay a little more to have less people on the unemployment line. If you’re not for helping fellow Americans, maybe our way of life doesn’t mean much to you. Just because I can get away with a little theft doesn’t mean I should.
The US is practically at full employment. We are the envy of the whole world. If we invested more money in public primary and secondary schools, we would all have higher salaries and benefits.

[jimjamuser]

Tariffs have never worked as intended. proponents hope that tariffs combined with tighter immigration will boost demand for US manufacturing labor and consequently wages and produce more jobs for us citizens. But it doesn’t work that way and it shouldn’t.
But we will see because increased tariffs are definitely coming.
We need tighter immigration because we have too many people in the US. Just look at the traffic. And since the Us is a top polluter, then less population means less cars.

[Stu from NYC]

The US is practically at full employment. We are the envy of the whole world. If we invested more money in public primary and secondary schools, we would all have higher salaries and benefits.

Or spend the money that goes to schools more efficiently getting rid of most of the administrators and the dept of education and giving that money to teachers who can teach.

[Pballer]

Yup, that and no environmental controls allow them to make stuff much cheaper than we can. Even when the cost of transporting goods half way across the planet is added, still much cheaper. Tariffs will help even the pricing playing field, but will also contribute to inflation.

Don't worry. No environmental controls is coming here.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

We need tighter immigration because we have too many people in the US. Just look at the traffic. And since the Us is a top polluter, then less population means less cars.

We should take the worst repeat offender criminal American citizens, strip them of their citizenship, and deport them.

We also should stop restricting women's rights to their bodily autonomy. If a woman doesn't want to breed, she should be allowed to - not breed. No matter how she ended up pregnant in the first place. HOW - is none of your business. But if the concern is "too many people" then one very obvious solution is to get out of the way of a pregnant female who doesn't want to be pregnant.

[Kelevision]

The US is practically at full employment. We are the envy of the whole world. If we invested more money in public primary and secondary schools, we would all have higher salaries and benefits.

No, the US is not at full employment:

Unemployment rate
In October 2024, the unemployment rate was 4.1%, which is higher than the 3.8% rate a year earlier.

Prime-age workers
The employment rate for prime-age workers (25–54 years old) was 80.6% in January 2024, which is below its peak of 81.9% in April 2000.

Long-term unemployed
The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was 1.6 million in October 2024, which is up from 1.3 million a year earlier.

The US government is committed to full employment, and the government is empowered to achieve this goal

As for the envy of the world…….we definitely aren’t that


Quality of Life…

Beyond the essential ideas of broad access to food, housing, quality education, health care and employment, quality of life also may include intangibles such as job security, political stability, individual freedom and environmental quality. Through all phases of life, these countries are seen as treating their citizens well.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life

Best countries to live for quality of life…..

1. Denmark
2. Sweden
3. Switzerland
4. Norway
5. Canada
6. Finland
7. Germany
8. Australia
9. Netherlands
10.New Zealand
11. UK
12. Austria
13. Belgium
14. Japan
15. Ireland
16. France
17. Luxembourg
18. Spain
19. Iceland
20. Portugal
21. Italy
22. UNITED STATES….
23. Singapore
24. Poland
25. South Korea
26 China

[biker1]

This is nonsensical. Deport them to where? Have you ever heard of the 14th amendment?

We should take the worst repeat offender criminal American citizens, strip them of their citizenship, and deport them.

We also should stop restricting women's rights to their bodily autonomy. If a woman doesn't want to breed, she should be allowed to - not breed. No matter how she ended up pregnant in the first place. HOW - is none of your business. But if the concern is "too many people" then one very obvious solution is to get out of the way of a pregnant female who doesn't want to be pregnant.

[retiredguy123]

Or spend the money that goes to schools more efficiently getting rid of most of the administrators and the dept of education and giving that money to teachers who can teach.
Wouldn't you need to get rid of the unions first?

[Caymus]

No, the US is not at full employment:

Unemployment rate
In October 2024, the unemployment rate was 4.1%, which is higher than the 3.8% rate a year earlier.

Prime-age workers
The employment rate for prime-age workers (25–54 years old) was 80.6% in January 2024, which is below its peak of 81.9% in April 2000.

Long-term unemployed
The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was 1.6 million in October 2024, which is up from 1.3 million a year earlier.

The US government is committed to full employment, and the government is empowered to achieve this goal

As for the envy of the world…….we definitely aren’t that


Quality of Life…

Beyond the essential ideas of broad access to food, housing, quality education, health care and employment, quality of life also may include intangibles such as job security, political stability, individual freedom and environmental quality. Through all phases of life, these countries are seen as treating their citizens well.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life

Best countries to live for quality of life…..

1. Denmark
2. Sweden
3. Switzerland
4. Norway
5. Canada
6. Finland
7. Germany
8. Australia
9. Netherlands
10.New Zealand
11. UK
12. Austria
13. Belgium
14. Japan
15. Ireland
16. France
17. Luxembourg
18. Spain
19. Iceland
20. Portugal
21. Italy
22. UNITED STATES….
23. Singapore
24. Poland
25. South Korea
26 China

And yet many people promise to leave, but don't follow through.

[ElDiabloJoe]

I can think of three steps to making this country secure.

Codify via Amendment:

1. USSC = 9;

2. Even if you were born here, if one or both parents (up for debate) were not citizens at the time of your birth, neither are you. No anchor babies;

3. Outlaw foreign ownership of property/land and American based corporations- especially strategic industries (energy, food, pharma, etc.).

Sure, Taiwan can have a few 85°C outlets here, but that corporation is based in Taiwan. They cannot own our meat producers or our food facilities. Two sea-salt foam coffees, please.

[blueash]

As I understand it, the Florida minimum wage is $13 per hour plus the FICA taxes of about 7 percent, so a migrant worker makes about $30K per year. Also, the employer must offer affordable health insurance for the worker as per the ACA law. Are you suggesting that employers are not compling with these requirements?

There is a lot of evidence that undocumented workers are not being paid minimum wages, (https://www.texastribune.org/2016/12/16/undocumented-workers-finding-jobs-underground-econ/) rather being paid in cash. Tell me how many people here have been asked by those they hired to please make the payment in cash, or to make out the check to them personally, not the name of their company. Some of that is tax fraud, some is to avoid other gov't regulations like minimum wage.

The ACA absolutely does not require most employers to provide health insurance. What made you think it did? ACA only requires employer coverage I (https://www.kff.org/infographic/employer-responsibility-under-the-affordable-care-act/)IF there are 50 or more full time employees. So keep your work staff at 49 and no requirement. Additionally there is no requirement for full employer coverage and everyone still in the workforce knows how the employer who used to pay 100% of the bill went to 90% then 80% etc even while the cost went up.

So when the cost now is 25000 for family coverage (https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2023-summary-of-findings/#:~:text=The%20average%20annual%20premium%20for,7% 25%20respectively).) and the employee is paying 8000 plus of course the copays and deductibles.

For real numbers, see the Bureau of Labor Statistics (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ebs2.pdf) data for this year
For persons employed in private sector at businesses with fewer than 50 workers:
Only 56% have an option to get coverage and only 60% of workers elected to get that coverage. The employee is charged 1/3 of the premium for family coverage across all size private employers.

[ElDiabloJoe]

There is a lot of evidence that undocumented workers are not being paid minimum wages, (https://www.texastribune.org/2016/12/16/undocumented-workers-finding-jobs-underground-econ/) rather being paid in cash. Tell me how many people here have been asked by those they hired to please make the payment in cash, or to make out the check to them personally, not the name of their company. Some of that is tax fraud, some is to avoid other gov't regulations like minimum wage.
...

Some of that is to avoid reporting income. Not only for tax purposes, like you stated, but for lowering or eliminating child support orders and for accessing more welfare eligibility as well.

[retiredguy123]

There is a lot of evidence that undocumented workers are not being paid minimum wages, (https://www.texastribune.org/2016/12/16/undocumented-workers-finding-jobs-underground-econ/) rather being paid in cash. Tell me how many people here have been asked by those they hired to please make the payment in cash, or to make out the check to them personally, not the name of their company. Some of that is tax fraud, some is to avoid other gov't regulations like minimum wage.

The ACA absolutely does not require most employers to provide health insurance. What made you think it did? ACA only requires employer coverage I (https://www.kff.org/infographic/employer-responsibility-under-the-affordable-care-act/)IF there are 50 or more full time employees. So keep your work staff at 49 and no requirement. Additionally there is no requirement for full employer coverage and everyone still in the workforce knows how the employer who used to pay 100% of the bill went to 90% then 80% etc even while the cost went up.

So when the cost now is 25000 for family coverage (https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2023-summary-of-findings/#:~:text=The%20average%20annual%20premium%20for,7% 25%20respectively).) and the employee is paying 8000 plus of course the copays and deductibles.

For real numbers, see the Bureau of Labor Statistics (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ebs2.pdf) data for this year
For persons employed in private sector at businesses with fewer than 50 workers:
Only 56% have an option to get coverage and only 60% of workers elected to get that coverage. The employee is charged 1/3 of the premium for family coverage across all size private employers.
It seems hypocritical to promote immigrant workers to compete with China when we don't enforce our own minimum wage law. Also, paying employees in cash is illegal. So, we are promoting illegal activity to compete with China.

I knew about the 50 employee rule for the ACA, but many people don't know that, before the ACA, there was no requirement for employers to provide any health insurance to employees.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This is nonsensical. Deport them to where? Have you ever heard of the 14th amendment?

The Heritage Foundation has determined that the Constitution is no longer appropriate and needs to be changed. They are running this country as of January 20, 2025 (one might argue they're already running it, but I try to avoid hyperbole).

The Constitution can be further amended, and the 14th can be repealed with new amendments. Just like the amendment that created the prohibition, and the one that repealed it.

They can be deported anywhere, really. Whether the country on the other end accepts them or not is not America's problem. They could be deported to an island somewhere. Or America could vote to annex Guam as a military prison (it's already an American territory) and send them all there.

[Stu from NYC]

Wouldn't you need to get rid of the unions first?

That would be item 1 on improving schools.

[graciegirl]

Don't worry. No environmental controls is coming here.

I think it should read;

No environmental controls "Are" coming here.

But......Most of us do believe strongly in Global Warming and for years we have reused, reconditioned, saved, recycled and worn clothes until they faded or wore out. We don't take Aluminum throw aways to pot lucks and many of us drive Hybrid cars. We save our money and we try to take care of our possessions and keep them both clean and working. Our parents sent our lunches in Wonder bread sacks and we used bread bags inside our boots too, when we were small. I don't think that most of us are unaware of the causes of Climate change but we just do not see a plausible way to stop it as the world is involved and people will not soon give up gas engines. They are used to manufacture things we all need. It is a very difficult thing to try to solve. But some of us carry reusuable bags to the grocery and some of us reuse the plastic bags for when we walk the dog.

[blueash]

It seems hypocritical to promote immigrant workers to compete with China when we don't enforce our own minimum wage law. Also, paying employees in cash is illegal. So, we are promoting illegal activity to compete with China.



Undocumented workers are not here competing with China. They overwhelmingly work in agriculture, food services, landscaping, construction. They are not working in manufacturing industries

And it is perfectly legal to pay employees in cash, as long you comply with all the reporting, withholding etc requirements.

[Topspinmo]

Undocumented workers are not here competing with China. They overwhelmingly work in agriculture, food services, landscaping, construction. They are not working in manufacturing industries

And it is perfectly legal to pay employees in cash, as long you comply with all the reporting, withholding etc requirements.

Wouldn’t that defeat purpose of paying in cash?

Only low precentage of ILLEGALs work. Government has system for non residents working it call green cards. No green card illegal entry.

[blueash]

I think it should read;

No environmental controls "Are" coming here.

But......Most of us do believe strongly in Global Warming and for years we have reused, reconditioned, saved, recycled and worn clothes until they faded or wore out. We don't take Aluminum throw aways to pot lucks and many of us drive Hybrid cars. We save our money and we try to take care of our possessions and keep them both clean and working. Our parents sent our lunches in Wonder bread sacks and we used bread bags inside our boots too, when we were small. I don't think that most of us are unaware of the causes of Climate change but we just do not see a plausible way to stop it as the world is involved and people will not soon give up gas engines. They are used to manufacture things we all need. It is a very difficult thing to try to solve. But some of us carry reusuable bags to the grocery and some of us reuse the plastic bags for when we walk the dog.

Gracie, I think I see that you really believe one person, even doing something seemingly minor, can have an impact on the world. When you reuse a grocery bag I say thank you instead of saying "what about all the billions of other people that aren't reusing" But you don't seem to see how every little step to decrease greenhouse gases is also helpful, even if India or China doesn't take every measure we can afford to take.

And... I am certain that the no environmental controls "is" was written the way it should have been as there is a presumed antecedent phrase...

(A policy of ) no environmental controls is coming.

[Topspinmo]

Understanding that tariffs, a form of a tax, will absolutely increase the cost of those products as the importer has higher costs.. those costs will be passed to the consumer, while the tariff imposed is collected by the Federal treasury. So now the US gov't has more money, but the consumer has less. This is another example of a regressive tax as consumers get hit but those who are not consuming, the 1%ers who are saving and investing not buying with most of their income are not being taxed. So the tax burden is imposed on those who can least afford it and the benefit of not needing to consider a higher marginal rate from the rich benefits who??

And who allowed labor move to foreign soil? Federal Government ——- influences by 1%er’s. And who got shut out the blue collar worker. No matter it’s UNFAIR trade.

[Topspinmo]

We should take the worst repeat offender criminal American citizens, strip them of their citizenship, and deport them.

We also should stop restricting women's rights to their bodily autonomy. If a woman doesn't want to breed, she should be allowed to - not breed. No matter how she ended up pregnant in the first place. HOW - is none of your business. But if the concern is "too many people" then one very obvious solution is to get out of the way of a pregnant female who doesn't want to be pregnant.

Illegals first, then we can argue over constitutional rights. Women have that option.

[retiredguy123]

Undocumented workers are not here competing with China. They overwhelmingly work in agriculture, food services, landscaping, construction. They are not working in manufacturing industries

And it is perfectly legal to pay employees in cash, as long you comply with all the reporting, withholding etc requirements.
My point is that the U.S. has minimum wage laws, tax laws, and other employment laws. China has lower wages and other employment standards designed to produce lower priced products. So, if you want lower priced products, why not just import them from China? But, violating your own laws to make cheaper products is being hypocritical because you are admitting that you cannot compete with China without breaking your own laws.

[blueash]

I can think of three steps to making this country secure.

Codify via Amendment:

1. USCC = 9;

.

A little help please. Google has failed to tell me what USCC = 9 might mean

[ElDiabloJoe]

A little help please. Google has failed to tell me what USCC = 9 might mean

Thank you, that was a typo. Should read USSC=9. The United States Supreme Court should be codified to be made up of 9 members. No stacking of the court by increasing the number of justices so one side or the other can appoint a new majority by stacking it with new justices of their preference. I will attempt to go back and fix the original post.

[blueash]

Wouldn’t that defeat purpose of paying in cash?

Only low precentage of ILLEGALs work. Government has system for non residents working it call green cards. No green card illegal entry.

I was responding to the post that said it was illegal to pay workers in cash. It is not illegal.
Now to your other sentence. I notice you didn't have a link for "only a low % of illegals work" because that is nonsense.

[retiredguy123]

I was responding to the post that said it was illegal to pay workers in cash. It is not illegal.
Now to your other sentence. I notice you didn't have a link for "only a low % of illegals work" because that is nonsense.
OK, the majority of employers who pay their employees in cash are violating the tax laws.

[jimjamuser]

I understand your concern, but if we focus more on buying our own products unemployment will drop across the board and wages will rise. Today a person buys a product manufactured from a foreign country, that means one less American employee and that also means one less shopper to purchase whatever your employer is selling. Buying American products is a win, win, situation for everyone. Tariffs will end up with prices going up anyway and if you remember the last time we went down this road China retaliated and started importing soybeans from South America hurting U.S. farmers.
Let me say how I avoid buying Chinese-made products. I buy almost ALL of my clothes from thrift stores or garage sales. I can also find hardware and sports equipment that way. For example, I have found almost new softball gloves at Goodwill that are worth $80 for under 10 dollars. I even buy shoes there. I COULD afford to buy new clothes, but they would likely be made in China or another country that does NOT like the US. It is true that items sitting in thrift stores may have been ORIGINALLY made in China, but China does NOT profit when I buy 2nd hand.
........Obviously China and many other countries, are NOT friends of the US. WE have basically, for about 60 years, FUNDED their industrial and military EXPANSION. Today, they threaten the US and align with Russia. They have greater influence in Africa than the US. And are outmaneuvering us in other areas of the world (and SPACE). We should NEVER have funded them and built them up. So, what to do now? I would suggest bringing back SOME manufacturing jobs. And buying products from countries that LIKE the US. Those may be dwindling, but we still have England, Canada, Australia, Finland, and Sweden on our side. Germany and France are having their own problems. So overall, I would be ANTI outsourcing to unfriendly countries and PRO IN-sourcing within the US.

[jimjamuser]

Might be painful for some in the short run, but I agree with Post #6. Much ado about not much. Whatever tariffs are imposed, will be targeted. The sky will NOT fall.

Looking long-term, this only Strengthens America. America won WW 2 for the allies, much as it pains our European friends to admit it. But we didn't win it on the battlefield. Many Axis forces were better-trained, better led, and (at the beginning of the war, anyway) better equipped. But we were in the war economically for about two years before we were ever in it militarily. I forget the lend-lease numbers but translated into today's dollars, they were astronomical. Not just military hardware but things like food, medical supplies, etc. went to the allies in vast amounts long before Dec. 8, 1941. When we did enter the battle we did so with an overwhelming economic powerhouse back home churning out guns, aircraft, tanks, ships, etc. at an incredible rate. I forget the liberty ship numbers but we were cranking them out faster than we could fill them. as far as military equipment went, my numbers might be a bit off but they do indicate the big picture. Aircraft carriers: at the beginning of the war we had very few if any. Japan had four major ones. At the end of the was the carrier war was Japan 0. America over 100! The same for the european theater: The Sherman tanks were pretty easy targets for the Axis, particularly towards the end of things with their Tiger and King Tiger tanks. But our numbers were overwhelming. No matter how fast the axis destroyed them, they just kept coming in ever-increasing numbers.

The point is this. Could we, with so much of our manufacturing done overseas (and a lot by potential enemies) rise to the occasion if necessary, as we did in WW 2? I doubt it.
I agree with everything written there. I would like to add to the list one of my personal peeves. At the time of WW2 the US school system included VOCATIONAL schools which meant that the GIs had the mechanical and other skills needed to fight a war. We stopped INVESTING in VOCATIONAL schools because supposedly they were too expensive to operate. i see that as a MAJOR historic mistake.

[jimjamuser]

Call me skeptical, but I can think of so many reasons why the U.S. cannot compete for product prices with China, I don't know where to start. And, most Americans only care about the getting the lowest price. Some of the reasons U.S. prices are higher are: unions, minimum wages, safety rules, environmental rules, standard of living expectations, work benefits, employment taxes, employer health care mandates, lawsuits, etc., etc., etc.
Germany has more Unionization than the US does today. And they somehow manage to make cars that are sold and prized worldwide.

[blueash]

My point is that the U.S. has minimum wage laws, tax laws, and other employment laws. China has lower wages and other employment standards designed to produce lower priced products. So, if you want lower priced products, why not just import them from China? But, violating your own laws to make cheaper products is being hypocritical because you are admitting that you cannot compete with China without breaking your own laws.

You and I seem to be talking past each other. I don't understand what you are saying. People hiring and underpaying undocumented workers has no impact on China. China is not competing to update my landscaping or cook my food or clean the hotel room.

Chinese labor, and Vietnam, and Cambodia, and almost any other nation is cheaper than US labor. We all know that and understand why a US manufacturer would use foreign factories to make products. The question becomes what if anything should be our policy.

Should the US accept that we are happy to have others do the work as it saves us money or should we insist that we need to have stuff made here even if it costs a whole lot more to do it that way. Don't forget that other nations will watch what we do and react.

We could tell Maytag that our government will subsidize the building of a nice new washing machine factory. Tax abatements, new roads, even use Army labor to build the facility if you want to go all out. But next, where does Maytag get the metal to make the machine? Buy it only from US Steel? What if it is cheaper to buy Steel from outside the US and ship it here (only cheaper because the cost of labor and materials to make that steel was cheaper abroad). Do you now say all the raw materials must be from the US? Only use natural gas that was drilled here, only use iron ore that was mined here, it gets very complex.

But now you have a washing machine that costs 4,000 dollars where the same machine from China was 1000. So you slap an import tax of 3000 on the Chinese machine and we all happily buy made in America. Or do we? No we make our old machine last longer which makes Maytag less profitable than projected, so we have to prop it up to keep it in business.

Meanwhile China is not happy they are not selling us washing machines because we slapped a tax on it.. So they retaliate and refuse to buy our products.. and we sell a lot of stuff to China. In 2023 China bought 165 Billion dollars (https://tradingeconomics.com/china/imports/united-states)of US products. Keep in mind what China buys from us they can get elsewhere.

Google Soybean exports to China to read about how this works in the real world. We put a tariff on Chinese materials and they retaliated against our soybeans and other items . This caused us to lose export income to such a degree that the US taxpayers ended up bailing out soybean and other farmers over 27 Billion Dollars through Feb 2020
(https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/01/21/trump-tariff-aid-to-farmers-cost-more-than-us-nuclear-forces/)

You say, but look how the cost of soybeans dropped as the farmers had to sell them and didn't have the Chinese market. You're forgetting that you are also paying the taxes to the government they are passing on to the farmers. You are losing money here, not saving.

So obviously we should therefore cancel our tariffs on Chinese steel so they cancel the soybean retaliation. Not so simple. We don't want to depend on Chinese steel and deem it, correctly, as a vital industry. And no politician wants to see those TV ads about how he is soft on China because it is too complex to expect the public to follow all the reasoning. China bashing is a favorite tactic even in this thread.

[jimjamuser]

Yup, that and no environmental controls allow them to make stuff much cheaper than we can. Even when the cost of transporting goods half way across the planet is added, still much cheaper. Tariffs will help even the pricing playing field, but will also contribute to inflation.
The less that we buy from China, the less they would need electricity produced from COAL. Less Chinese coal usage means cleaner air worldwide.

[jimjamuser]

:bigbow::bigbow: Simple economics, Americans want cheap and will not pay for higher cost goods. There is a reason WalMart, Amazon, Dollar stores, Temu and others outside are huge, cheap goods for cheap price. Not saying it is good or bad, just a fact. Same will happen for groceries when the labor that produces them is eliminated prices will climb. Home prices will go up when laborers that do all the real work leave.
I believe that in Europe they build their new houses on a factory assembly line. On site home building in the US could be a big reason that homes are so expensive.

[jimjamuser]

Understanding that tariffs, a form of a tax, will absolutely increase the cost of those products as the importer has higher costs.. those costs will be passed to the consumer, while the tariff imposed is collected by the Federal treasury. So now the US gov't has more money, but the consumer has less. This is another example of a regressive tax as consumers get hit but those who are not consuming, the 1%ers who are saving and investing not buying with most of their income are not being taxed. So the tax burden is imposed on those who can least afford it and the benefit of not needing to consider a higher marginal rate from the rich benefits who??
I agree completely ! And if the lower and middle classes are penalized that would make America WEAKER. It was the OPPOSITE in the 50s and 60s which are decades that people rave about because of the STRENGTH of the middle class. Starting about 1975 the US tax system began to penalize America and the GREAT American middle class. Today couples must work 2 jobs and save until they are in their 40s before they can afford a house. There are lots of problems today and FEW solutions.

[blueash]

Thank you, that was a typo. Should read USSC=9. The United States Supreme Court should be codified to be made up of 9 members. No stacking of the court by increasing the number of justices so one side or the other can appoint a new majority by stacking it with new justices of their preference. I will attempt to go back and fix the original post.

Thanks for the clarification. I am not a supporter of having an open option to add new Supreme Court Justices. But 9 is much too few. Nine was selected in 1869 when the population was 31 million. We now have 10 times that many. And we have more laws to adjudicate. So we need more on SCOTUS. I think the proposal to have at least 1 justice for each district (13) is a minimum. And I think we need a mandatory retirement age say 80.

There is an interesting suggestion that all justices get an 18 year appointment which means one new justice every 2 years which balances it so no one President gets to pack the court. This would happen the 1st and 3rd year of a term so not in an election year. And we need a code of ethics. At least the code that applies to every other Federal Judge should apply to a Justice.

[biker1]

What the Heritage Foundation has determined or not determined is irrelevant; they don't make the laws or enforce the laws. Your suggestion that they are running the country as of January 2025 is more nonsensical thinking on your part. Suggesting that US citizens can be put on a plane to nowhere specific is also nonsensical. It doesn't work that way regardless of what you think, thank God, as reaffirmed by the recent election. Get a grip.

The Heritage Foundation has determined that the Constitution is no longer appropriate and needs to be changed. They are running this country as of January 20, 2025 (one might argue they're already running it, but I try to avoid hyperbole).

The Constitution can be further amended, and the 14th can be repealed with new amendments. Just like the amendment that created the prohibition, and the one that repealed it.

They can be deported anywhere, really. Whether the country on the other end accepts them or not is not America's problem. They could be deported to an island somewhere. Or America could vote to annex Guam as a military prison (it's already an American territory) and send them all there.

[Bill14564]

What the Heritage Foundation has determined or not determined is irrelevant; they don't make the laws or enforce the laws. Your suggestion that they are running the country as of January 2025 is more nonsensical thinking on your part. Suggesting that US citizens can be put on a plane to nowhere specific is also nonsensical. It doesn't work that way regardless of what you think, thank God, as reaffirmed by the recent election. Get a grip.

We shall see

[biker1]

We shall see what?

We shall see

[jimjamuser]

I just read of a manufacturing employer who just announced to his entire staff that there was not going to be any Christmas bonus this year due to his need to secure equipment and goods instead - prior to the implementation of tariffs.
Those workers were Scrooged !

[eyc234]

OK, the majority of employers who pay their employees in cash are violating the tax laws.

Not at all, as long as you follow tax, FICA and workers comp laws. There is no law detailing how employees are paid their wages. It only takes 28 keystrokes to get the facts.

[Topspinmo]

Germany has more Unionization than the US does today. And they somehow manage to make cars that are sold and prized worldwide.

Only by people who have more money than brains:loco:

[Topspinmo]

Let me say how I avoid buying Chinese-made products. I buy almost ALL of my clothes from thrift stores or garage sales. I can also find hardware and sports equipment that way. For example, I have found almost new softball gloves at Goodwill that are worth $80 for under 10 dollars. I even buy shoes there. I COULD afford to buy new clothes, but they would likely be made in China or another country that does NOT like the US. It is true that items sitting in thrift stores may have been ORIGINALLY made in China, but China does NOT profit when I buy 2nd hand.
........Obviously China and many other countries, are NOT friends of the US. WE have basically, for about 60 years, FUNDED their industrial and military EXPANSION. Today, they threaten the US and align with Russia. They have greater influence in Africa than the US. And are outmaneuvering us in other areas of the world (and SPACE). We should NEVER have funded them and built them up. So, what to do now? I would suggest bringing back SOME manufacturing jobs. And buying products from countries that LIKE the US. Those may be dwindling, but we still have England, Canada, Australia, Finland, and Sweden on our side. Germany and France are having their own problems. So overall, I would be ANTI outsourcing to unfriendly countries and PRO IN-sourcing within the US.

Kind of hard when there no incentive for CEOs to manufacture anything in US when the can just make it china and import here for at least 70% of costs. Plus and big plus! they don’t have deal with EPA or unions.

[jimjamuser]

That is just proof the past policies really didn’t work and you are an example of why we shouldn’t continue to ship jobs out of the Country. Many don’t care until it is their job and finances. Just wait until AI takes hold, the number of unemployed Lawyers, Accountants, Investment Analyst, etc, will skyrocket. If your job doesn’t include some hands on activity with people (Nurses, Plumbers, Doctors, Electricians, etc.) plan on large pay reductions and finally the unemployment line.
A.I. could be both good and bad just like social media is. I worry that it takes so much energy to function.

[Topspinmo]

Not at all, as long as you follow tax, FICA and workers comp laws. There is no law detailing how employees are paid their wages. It only takes 28 keystrokes to get the facts.

But, there only trusting accountability in paying cash. Come we know why they pay in cash. Contractor’s love cash payments. Why? Trusting accountability.

[jimjamuser]

In certain situations, I totally agree with this statement. People are looking out for their family, their money, when they shop with price in mind. If you learn to be careful with your money, you will be able to take care of yourself and your family.

And if I continue, someone is gonna get mad at me for being political.
The question is,"why was the US middle class better off in 1950 through 1975 than we are today. And that is historic and economical and not political?"

[jimjamuser]

Oh it’s not just the tariffs that will raise prices, wait until there are no migrant workers to pick all the fresh fruit and vegetables in the fields. Who will pick them? Americans won’t do the job. Wait for your hand picked tomato costs $10 each, IF you can even get any because they have rotted in the fields unpicked.
Legal Americans WOULD do any job where they thought that they were paid enough. Look at the salaries of upper management for any large company. I would rather allow high school students to work 3 or 4 hours per week than have illegal aliens (and armed drug gangs) operating in my town.
.........Also, there are machines designed to pick fruit and tomatoes that have a long shape. And Quaker and Mennonite farmers have no problems picking and selling their produce.

[jimjamuser]

Tariffs are intended to bring jobs back into the United States, thereby balancing trade. An additional benefit is a reduction in taxes. If the size of government can be cut by 80%, then taxes can be reduced to zero like in the 1800s. Since 80% of the government is not within the enumerated powers limited by the Constitution, the reduction is required by law. It will be interesting to see what happens.
The world was less complex in 1800 than today. They did not have to worry about having a FCC or a Space Program. The US was insulated against world problems by 2 oceans. We did not get involved with Iran or Israel then.

[jimjamuser]

So, Boeing machinists will not be getting the 38% pay increase(over 4 years) or the $12,000 signing bonus?
The machinists may be getting those raises NOW, but at SOME point in the future A.I. will eliminate many of their jobs. That is why legal and illegal immigration should have been cut off years ago. In the future there could be as many as 100 thousand people NOT workingin the US. They will then do what........cause trouble and consume drugs?

[jimjamuser]

Richard Nixon: His visit to China in 1972 was crucial in thawing U.S.-China relations after years of isolation. While this opened diplomatic channels, it was more about normalizing relations rather than directly promoting trade.

Jimmy Carter: He furthered the normalization process by officially establishing diplomatic relations with China in 1979, which facilitated increased trade but was more about political engagement.

Bill Clinton: He played a significant role in the normalization of trade relations with China, especially by signing into law the U.S.-China Relations Act in 2000, which paved the way for China's entry into the WTO in December 2001. However, this was more about facilitating China's integration into global trade frameworks rather than initiating China's trade engagement.
Wall street industrial owners and upper managers went to China to INCREASE their profits. It devastated the middle and lower US classes. And turned China into a potential enemy of equal power. America is so proud of you !

[jimjamuser]

Without all wages going up how is anyone going to afford these no existent American made products. The last time the US hit China as stated and stopped buying Soybeans from the US the US government had to give farmer $18 billion to keep them from going under. That money was our tax money that should never have been needed to prop up farmers. On top of all this we would not have enough workers to fill half the new jobs that would come back to America.
Factories are no longer worker-intensive. They are made up mainly of robotics. So we won't need tons of workers. Just a few well trained technical workers.

[jimjamuser]

As I understand it, the Florida minimum wage is $13 per hour plus the FICA taxes of about 7 percent, so a migrant worker makes about $30K per year. Also, the employer must offer affordable health insurance for the worker as per the ACA law. Are you suggesting that employers are not compling with these requirements?
I am suggesting that employers are not paying the TRUE COSTS to society. There are additional social and government costs when adding more legal and illegal workers that the EMPLOYERS do NOT pay.

[jimjamuser]

We should take the worst repeat offender criminal American citizens, strip them of their citizenship, and deport them.

We also should stop restricting women's rights to their bodily autonomy. If a woman doesn't want to breed, she should be allowed to - not breed. No matter how she ended up pregnant in the first place. HOW - is none of your business. But if the concern is "too many people" then one very obvious solution is to get out of the way of a pregnant female who doesn't want to be pregnant.
As to the 1st sentence.......I believe that we have too many citizens. I would put all repeat offenders in jail. And for illegal offenders, after the jail term, I would deport them. That way it would discourage people from entering the county illegally. People that want to come to the US are hurt by the illegals as well as the long time US residents. As to the 2nd paragraph, I DEFINITELY believe in a woman's right to CHOOSE. When we do otherwise we are losing a GREAT resource. That of 55% of the US population.....women.

[jimjamuser]

No, the US is not at full employment:

Unemployment rate
In October 2024, the unemployment rate was 4.1%, which is higher than the 3.8% rate a year earlier.

Prime-age workers
The employment rate for prime-age workers (25–54 years old) was 80.6% in January 2024, which is below its peak of 81.9% in April 2000.

Long-term unemployed
The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was 1.6 million in October 2024, which is up from 1.3 million a year earlier.

The US government is committed to full employment, and the government is empowered to achieve this goal

As for the envy of the world…….we definitely aren’t that


Quality of Life…

Beyond the essential ideas of broad access to food, housing, quality education, health care and employment, quality of life also may include intangibles such as job security, political stability, individual freedom and environmental quality. Through all phases of life, these countries are seen as treating their citizens well.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life

Best countries to live for quality of life…..

1. Denmark
2. Sweden
3. Switzerland
4. Norway
5. Canada
6. Finland
7. Germany
8. Australia
9. Netherlands
10.New Zealand
11. UK
12. Austria
13. Belgium
14. Japan
15. Ireland
16. France
17. Luxembourg
18. Spain
19. Iceland
20. Portugal
21. Italy
22. UNITED STATES….
23. Singapore
24. Poland
25. South Korea
26 China
i wrote that we are at "PRACTICALLY" full employment. Economists consider, at least 3% of unemployment to be people just looking for a better job. And I agree with showing the list of countries by "quality of life". Total agreement.

[biker1]

That is nonsensical. If an illegal alien is arrested, he/she should be deported on the spot. Why would you waste the costs of a trial and incarceration on anyone who has been found to be in the country illegally.

As to the 1st sentence.......I believe that we have too many citizens. I would put all repeat offenders in jail. And for illegal offenders, after the jail term, I would deport them. That way it would discourage people from entering the county illegally. People that want to come to the US are hurt by the illegals as well as the long time US residents. As to the 2nd paragraph, I DEFINITELY believe in a woman's right to CHOOSE. When we do otherwise we are losing a GREAT resource. That of 55% of the US population.....women.

[fdpaq0580]

That is nonsensical. If an illegal alien is arrested, he/she should be deported on the spot. Why would you waste the costs of a trial and incarceration on anyone who has been found to be in the country illegally.

Where is Judge Dredd when we need him? 😱

Dunking donuts! 😖🫤