Arrest in UHC shooting

[Rainger99]

Person of interest nabbed in fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson outside NYC hotel (https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/person-of-interest-nabbed-in-fatal-shooting-of-unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-outside-nyc-hotel/)

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=Rainger99;2392142]Person of interest nabbed in fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson outside NYC hotel (https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/person-of-interest-nabbed-in-fatal-shooting-of-unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-outside-nyc-hotel/)[/QUOTe

High School Valedictorian. Graduate of Ivy League University. 26 years old. Beef against corporate greed. Name is Luigi Mangione.

I think he is from Maryland.

[CarlR33]

Hopefully, the observant individual at the McDonalds gets the full reward. Be nice if UHC would put some in the reward kitty.

[Caymus]

Jury selection will be interesting if he goes to trial. He could get off just like OJ.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Hopefully, the observant individual at the McDonalds gets the full reward. Be nice if UHC would put some in the reward kitty.

I heard that UHC kicked in a $25 co-pay. . .

Good that they have arrested a highly probably suspect.
Agree that the jury selection will be interesting. He is an amateur for sure, still carrying around similar weapons and with a public manifesto.

Friends of my xwife knew a contract killer hit man. Lived next door to their camp in Maine. Didn't know anything about the person, and neither did the guy's wife, until the FBI showed up one day and hauled him off forever.

He just went on business trips for a week or so. .

just remember:
in an autocracy, communism, socialism, you fear the government.
in democracies, with personal freedom, you fear each other.

[Taltarzac725]

Person of interest nabbed in fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson outside NYC hotel (https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/person-of-interest-nabbed-in-fatal-shooting-of-unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-outside-nyc-hotel/)

That sure looks like the guy in one of the pictures where he is smiling at someone.

The defense will have quite an easy job of finding jurors who can relate to accused.

[Rainger99]

The defense will have quite an easy job of finding jurors who can relate to accused.

The trial will be in New York. From the comments that I have seen online, I think it will be hard to get all 12 jurors to convict. At least one or two jurors will hate insurance companies and will vote to acquit - no matter the evidence.

[Happydaz]

That sure looks like the guy in one of the pictures where he is smiling at someone.

The defense will have quite an easy job of finding jurors who can relate to accused.

I would hope that the jury pool will consist of good Americans who look to the laws of the USA and know premeditated. murder when they see it. As far as the chorus of internet nonsense that this heinous crime has any legitimacy I can’t fathom how any thinking person could side with a murderer. If we are going to hold CEO’s responsible for all the bad things that happen to us we are in trouble as a society. For example, someone doesn’t get warranty coverage on their car so they begin to plot revenge? Everyone talks about how great it would be to have national health insurance like Canada and England, but what they forget is that these countries can do this because they limit access to health care. I can see how difficult it can be for people to watch their loved ones die from deadly diseases and they are willing to try any experimental drug no matter what the cost. These expensive drugs don’t always change the outcome or are not yet accepted by the medical community so they are not approved by different countries, or in the case of the USA, different insurance companies. Even Medicare in the USA does not include all therapies and drugs in its CMS formulary. Would people justify going after Medicare? The internet is a godless place where people often say awful things as they can hide behind the veil of anonymity. I hope the jury looks to the nation’s laws not their own prejudices.

[Taltarzac725]

I would hope that the jury pool will consist of good Americans who look to the laws of the USA and know premeditated. murder when they see it. As far as the chorus of internet nonsense that this heinous crime has any legitimacy I can’t fathom how any thinking person could side with a murderer. If we are going to hold CEO’s responsible for all the bad things that happen to us we are in trouble as a society. For example, someone doesn’t get warranty coverage on their car so they begin to plot revenge? Everyone talks about how great it would be to have national health insurance like Canada and England, but what they forget is that these countries can do this because they limit access to health care. I can see how difficult it can be for people to watch their loved ones die from deadly diseases and they are willing to try any experimental drug no matter what the cost. These expensive drugs don’t always change the outcome or are not yet accepted by the medical community so they are not approved by different countries, or in the case of the USA, different insurance companies. Even Medicare in the USA does not include all therapies and drugs in its CMS formulary. Would people justify going after Medicare? The internet is a godless place where people often say awful things as they can hide behind the veil of anonymity. I hope the jury looks to the nation’s laws not their own prejudices.

Seeing his point of view is one thing. Finding him guilty should be quite easy. If the prosecutor presents a really good case and is lucky with who he or she or they get on the jury.


Check out Irving Younger on Amazon. He was a Professor at the U of MN Law School. He passed while I was there but his work is very interesting. He was a New York trial lawyer.

[frayedends]

Regardless of how this turns out I would take what the media says with a grain of salt. They throw around “ghost gun” like they have any idea. The pic I saw looked like a stippled Glock. Maybe 3D printed. But they also act like you can print an entire functional gun. They use “manifesto” for anything a suspect has written.

This guy is apparently dumb as a stump having kept as much evidence as possible on his person.

[JMintzer]

Regardless of how this turns out I would take what the media says with a grain of salt. They throw around “ghost gun” like they have any idea. The pic I saw looked like a stippled Glock. Maybe 3D printed. But they also act like you can print an entire functional gun. They use “manifesto” for anything a suspect has written.

This guy is apparently dumb as a stump having kept as much evidence as possible on his person.

A '"Ghost Gun" is a gun with a home-made receiver with NO serial #.

It is easy to mill from a block of aluminum or via 3D printing. The the receiver can be made to look like a Glock and once you add the addition (Glock) parts, you have what LOOKS like a Glock...

The other arts are easily and LEGALL available to pruchse and have NO identifying markings.

THAT is the definition of a ghost gunt and the media is using the term correctly...

[manaboutown]

Luigi Mangione, suspected UnitedHealthcare CEO killer, delivered valedictorian speech about 'challenging the world' (https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/luigi-mangione-suspected-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killer-delivered-valedictorian-speech-about-challenging-the-world/)

[manaboutown]

^^^. I agree.

[Caymus]

That sure looks like the guy in one of the pictures where he is smiling at someone.

The defense will have quite an easy job of finding jurors who can relate to accused.

The eyebrows are distinctive.

[Two Bills]

I think you would have to be a pretty dumb prosecutor to lose this case.

Luigi Mangione charged with murder of healthcare CEO - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly2zwqqr1ro)

[Cuervo]

Let's get down to the basics, no matter what he claims his motivation was, this gut is not wrapped too tight. Anyone with half a brain knows if you get caught which is usually the case, you will spend a good portion of the rest of your life behind bars.

Unless you're talking about cooperate greed crime doesn't pay. Just do the math, you steal a $1,000,000 and you get caught the odds are you will do about 10 years in jail, if your smart you can earn that in the same amount of time on the outside and you won't have to share your life in a two by four with a roommate.

Don't waste your time trying to analyze this guy.

[golfing eagles]

This morning's news stated he was charged with SECOND degree murder. I'm not a lawyer, but he picked his target, hunted him down and killed him. If that's not premeditation, I don't know what is.

[frayedends]

A '"Ghost Gun" is a gun with a home-made receiver with NO serial #.

It is easy to mill from a block of aluminum or via 3D printing. The the receiver can be made to look like a Glock and once you add the addition (Glock) parts, you have what LOOKS like a Glock...

The other arts are easily and LEGALL available to pruchse and have NO identifying markings.

THAT is the definition of a ghost gunt and the media is using the term correctly...

My point was more that the media doesn't actually know. They see a pic where you can't see the serial number and assume it's a ghost gun. If they used the word correctly in this case they just got lucky. They prove pretty routinely they don't know anything about guns, for instance calling an AR 15 a weapon of war.

[Switter]

I would hope that the jury pool will consist of good Americans who look to the laws of the USA and know premeditated. murder when they see it. As far as the chorus of internet nonsense that this heinous crime has any legitimacy I can’t fathom how any thinking person could side with a murderer. ...

I agree. I am disgusted at the "he had it coming to him." attitude all over the Internet and in the media by what appears to be the majority of people in this country. Maybe that's just the media making it seem that way. I get people's grievances with big corporations but to gun down another human being in cold blood, and shoot him in the back no less, is evil. No due process, no legal representation, just some angry person who feels he was wronged or on some crusade gets to be the judge, jury, and executioner. All I can say is if the majority of people really do feel this way, we are already lost as a country.

[Robbb]

Isn't this a dealth penalty case? He crossed state lines to commit it, its clearly premeditated, wouldn't that make it a federal crime eligible for the death penalty? I have asked this questions in a few forums and no one seems to know.

[Sgt Ed]

Not the way he is singing!

[Rainger99]

Isn't this a dealth penalty case? He crossed state lines to commit it, its clearly premeditated, wouldn't that make it a federal crime eligible for the death penalty? I have asked this questions in a few forums and no one seems to know.

Not according to this.


7 Situations Where "Murder" Is a Federal Crime (https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/murder/is-murder-a-federal-crime-7-ways-it-can-be/)

[Bay Kid]

Regardless of how this turns out I would take what the media says with a grain of salt. They throw around “ghost gun” like they have any idea. The pic I saw looked like a stippled Glock. Maybe 3D printed. But they also act like you can print an entire functional gun. They use “manifesto” for anything a suspect has written.

This guy is apparently dumb as a stump having kept as much evidence as possible on his person.

My thoughts at 1st about leaving evidence. So much that I feel he planned on being caught. I believe there is a lot more to this.

[Rainger99]

This morning's news stated he was charged with SECOND degree murder. I'm not a lawyer, but he picked his target, hunted him down and killed him. If that's not premeditation, I don't know what is.

In NY, premeditated murder is not first degree murder. First degree murder usually requires that a cop, fireman, judge or other state employee be killed. They don’t care about the rest of us.


Just a moment... (https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-125-27/)

[NotGolfer]

As for a jury...perhaps a bench trial could be offered. The judge then decides.

[Topspinmo]

The trial will be in New York. From the comments that I have seen online, I think it will be hard to get all 12 jurors to convict. At least one or two jurors will hate insurance companies and will vote to acquit - no matter the evidence.


And I wonder why so many dislike insurance of any kind???? We here haven’t felt the raft of insurance yet but we soon will. IMO health, property, and vehicle insurance should be one payer, Federal government might as well be getting 100s of billions or trillion’s insurance collecting. Don’t’ t say they can’t better job can’t do any worse. Fed usually government bail insurance out anyway.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

///

Someone blamed DEI for this. I responded that DEI has nothing to do with it. Their post was deleted, mine was edited by someone other than me, which resulted in an out-of-context to a no-longer-existing post. My opinion stands - DEI had nothing to do with this.

[Topspinmo]

I think you would have to be a pretty dumb prosecutor to lose this case.

Luigi Mangione charged with murder of healthcare CEO - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly2zwqqr1ro)


That what was of thought of OJ trail or Anthony trial?

[golfing eagles]

In NY, premeditated murder is not first degree murder. First degree murder usually requires that a cop, fireman, judge or other state employee be killed. They don’t care about the rest of us.


Just a moment... (https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-125-27/)

Figures. I wonder if 1st degree includes "protected classes" or "hate" crimes (I love that term--after all people murder people they love)

[Topspinmo]

Isn't this a dealth penalty case? He crossed state lines to commit it, its clearly premeditated, wouldn't that make it a federal crime eligible for the death penalty? I have asked this questions in a few forums and no one seems to know.

Death penalty IMO will guarantee he will die of old age.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I agree. I am disgusted at the "he had it coming to him." attitude all over the Internet and in the media by what appears to be the majority of people in this country. Maybe that's just the media making it seem that way. I get people's grievances with big corporations but to gun down another human being in cold blood, and shoot him in the back no less, is evil. No due process, no legal representation, just some angry person who feels he was wronged or on some crusade gets to be the judge, jury, and executioner. All I can say is if the majority of people really do feel this way, we are already lost as a country.

Reading social media would give you a view that the sentiment is a majority of the country, but i highly doubt that is the case. There are forces which are trying to break down the US from within, without any actual violence, etc. these are trolls, designed to amplify anti democratic themes, and stir discontent. They are preying on for profit media which rely on views/ads for money. Musk/X has that built into his views payments, from where many get their leads.

in reality, I do not believe that the majority of people in this country believe what you stated. I believe that the majority of people are of two reactions:

1) indifference to the shooting similar to the indifference of insurance companies to their customers.
2) its no different that other shootings of children, concert goers, mass shootings, etc. where guns are an issue, not for the sane and responsible, but for the insane and irresponsible.

So that is why there are not a huge outcry against the individual, when nothing has been done about removing similar weapons which have killed many more innocent people enjoying life in an outdoor gathering, or children going to school. And many have personally experienced insurance issues of rejection.

When there is a possibility of redress / punishment for abuse, many people will feel relieved that the abuse, financial or otherwise, is addressed, and will not feel the need to act out. If people don't have faith in the system for punishments, then a few will act out.

Other people similarly fed up with society's lack of actions:
Bernard Goetz if you are of northeast familiarity
1984 New York City Subway shooting - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting)
Very recently, Dan Penny chokehold death of catch/release of abuser/harasser
Jury finds Daniel Penny not guilty in NYC subway chokehold case - Gothamist (https://gothamist.com/news/jury-finds-daniel-penny-not-guilty-in-nyc-subway-chokehold-case)
Unabomber Ted Kaczynski
Ted Kaczynski - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski)

The problem is the society's view of the legal system, and less so of the protectors of the law.

Luigi appears to have been a follower of Ted Kaczynski prior to any medical experiences, which he may have experienced. So he was psychologically primed for something to set him off.

This is a feature, not a bug, of humanity
with freedom you fear each other,
with autocracy you fear the government

now get off of social media and back to enjoying what life we have remaining !

[New Englander]

We’ve almost all had unpleasant experiences at some point in our lives with the health care system. No matter how bad one’s experience have been, our who they choose to blame, it doesn’t come close to justifying premeditated cold blooded murder.

:agree:

[asianthree]

No matter what the shooter chose to target one person. He could have entered corporate offices and killed many who weren’t even involved in decision-making. My guess is thats why corporate has a lock down on offices, concerned for their other employees.

[Caymus]

The Crypto betting market predicted he would be caught on the 6th day. I don't see a line for odds of conviction.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/crypto-betting-market-accurately-predicted-arrest-of-suspected-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killer/ar-AA1vyjDc?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[jimjamuser]

Strange, that he got away as far as he did, then he got sloppy, like keeping the gun . It is as if he wanted to get caught to take credit for the crime. If I had been him, I would have bleached my hair and eyebrows and taken off for Mexico and had plastic surgery on my nose.

[jimjamuser]

The trial will be in New York. From the comments that I have seen online, I think it will be hard to get all 12 jurors to convict. At least one or two jurors will hate insurance companies and will vote to acquit - no matter the evidence.
I don't think that he will get acquitted, but a lot of people on various talk sites are thinking of him as a modern Robin Hood. I can see a lot of EVIL in companies like UHC - an insurance company with the highest rejection rate in their industry - and high pay for their executives.
..........I think that professional and amateur football, basketball, baseball, tennis, hockey, and golf players and coaches all make too much money. But, I doubt that they are as HATED as an UHC executive.

[jimjamuser]

Regardless of how this turns out I would take what the media says with a grain of salt. They throw around “ghost gun” like they have any idea. The pic I saw looked like a stippled Glock. Maybe 3D printed. But they also act like you can print an entire functional gun. They use “manifesto” for anything a suspect has written.

This guy is apparently dumb as a stump having kept as much evidence as possible on his person.
Well, he is hardly "dumb as a stump". Not too many stumps have a masters degree in engineering. He did seem to get dumb toward the end, but maybe he wanted to get caught. He should have bleached his hair and eyebrows and gotten a different nose in Mexico if he was serious about getting away with it.

[MollyJo]

Interested in hearing his motive…CEO & his wife were separated. Humm..

[jimjamuser]

I agree. I am disgusted at the "he had it coming to him." attitude all over the Internet and in the media by what appears to be the majority of people in this country. Maybe that's just the media making it seem that way. I get people's grievances with big corporations but to gun down another human being in cold blood, and shoot him in the back no less, is evil. No due process, no legal representation, just some angry person who feels he was wronged or on some crusade gets to be the judge, jury, and executioner. All I can say is if the majority of people really do feel this way, we are already lost as a country.
I think that 2 things can be TRUE at the same time. It is terrible that someone is murdered! But, we have a problem in this country with too much money going upward after about 1970. The middle class became weaker and the upper class became much, much stronger. The enemy is the tax rate levels, not one particular UHC executive that just took advantage of the system.
........The shooter is being thought of as a Robin Hood figure. That is wrong, but his glorification "POINTS OUT" that the average US citizen has lost money and power after the tax changes around 1970
..........The US would be much stronger and more stable IF SOMEHOW it could go back to the tax levels of the 50s and 60s. When, not coincidentally, America really was GREAT.

[jimjamuser]

Isn't this a dealth penalty case? He crossed state lines to commit it, its clearly premeditated, wouldn't that make it a federal crime eligible for the death penalty? I have asked this questions in a few forums and no one seems to know.
The last I heard, it is in New York's jurisdiction so no death penalty there.

[Altavia]

At least he didn't shoot up a bunch of kindergarteners...

There have been at least 81 school shootings in the United States so far this year, as of December 6.

Twenty-seven were on college campuses, and 54 were on K-12 school grounds.

The incidents left 36 people dead and at least 109 other victims injured,

Just saying...

[Rainger99]

I do not know of any case where CEOs have been sent to prison for any significant time for having corporate policies that killed people.

The most egregious cases that I can think of are Pinto and Bhopal. I think that Pinto was just a civil lawsuit. I don't think anyone was charged criminally. In Bhopal, the actions in the US were dismissed but some people were sent to prison in India for two years and a $2000 fine.

According to the internet, some insurance companies appear to intentionally deny some legitimate claims in order to save money As a result, people have died because of those decisions.

If that is true, that a company intentionally denies valid claims and people die because they don't get the medical treatment that would have saved their lives - should the people that make those decisions be subject to criminal prosecution? Or should they be immune from criminal liability and the criminal action is only brought against the corporation?

[Rainger99]

Amazon has removed the items from their website.

Mugs, hats, holiday sweaters: CEO shooting merch is for sale online (https://www.yahoo.com/news/mugs-hats-holiday-sweaters-ceo-005954871.html)

[golfing eagles]

I think that 2 things can be TRUE at the same time. It is terrible that someone is murdered! But, we have a problem in this country with too much money going upward after about 1970. The middle class became weaker and the upper class became much, much stronger. The enemy is the tax rate levels, not one particular UHC executive that just took advantage of the system.
........The shooter is being thought of as a Robin Hood figure. That is wrong, but his glorification "POINTS OUT" that the average US citizen has lost money and power after the tax changes around 1970
..........The US would be much stronger and more stable IF SOMEHOW it could go back to the tax levels of the 50s and 60s. When, not coincidentally, America really was GREAT.

Interesting opinion.

So, the top 10% of earners paying 77% of all income tax and the top 53% paying 100% of that tax isn't "fair enough". I suppose handing out social service $$$ that would require an uneducated single mother of 2 to hold a job that pays $78,000/year to break even is fair?

Just giving the opposing viewpoint

[asianthree]

We’ve almost all had unpleasant experiences at some point in our lives with the health care system. No matter how bad one’s experience have been, our who they choose to blame, it doesn’t come close to justifying premeditated cold blooded murder.

However when your child is denied possible lifesaving treatment, either by surgical or chemical intervention, by your healthcare. One might have different thoughts. It happens everyday, maybe hasn’t crossed your lifetime, but many have denied care, that it would be for some not just a bad experience, but a trip to the cemetery.

[RoseyRed]

Person of interest nabbed in fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson outside NYC hotel (https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/person-of-interest-nabbed-in-fatal-shooting-of-unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-outside-nyc-hotel/)
Has anyone else seen the headlines referencing his wife said he had been receiving threats? There was an interview with a security firm that noted it was quite odd the CEO was alone when shot. He had no one with him and no security detail. Seen another article referring to the possibility Brian Thompson had hired a hit man to assist with his own suicide. There were investigations going on for insider trading. Seems there will be another side investigators find.

[Rainger99]

Has anyone else seen the headlines referencing his wife said he had been receiving threats? There was an interview with a security firm that noted it was quite odd the CEO was alone when shot. He had no one with him and no security detail. Seen another article referring to the possibility Brian Thompson had hired a hit man to assist with his own suicide. There were investigations going on for insider trading. Seems there will be another side investigators find.

There are a lot of theories on the internet.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting opinion.

So, the top 10% of earners paying 77% of all income tax and the top 53% paying 100% of that tax isn't "fair enough". I suppose handing out social service $$$ that would require an uneducated single mother of 2 to hold a job that pays $78,000/year to break even is fair?

Just giving the opposing viewpoint
It is generally common knowledge that in the 50s and 60s that a middle class family could have as many as 3 children and STILL be happy and feeling successful with their lives with ONLY ONE PERSON WORKING FULL TIME AT ONLY ONE JOB (usually the husband). Today it is generally considered necessary for BOTH the husband and wife to work (often more than 1 job for greater than 40 hours per week). And then they must decided IF they can afford to have ONE child.
.........So, we ask ourselves, "What has changed in those 65-some years until today". Obviously, a lot has changed, but to me, the most important change has been the tax laws changing to benefit the upper class over the middle class.
.........Certainly, there have been other noteworthy changes. The OUTSOURCING of American manufacturing has benefited the upper 10% and has HURT the middle class, which by 2000 really ceased to exist.
..........Increased immigration after 1980 also has helped eliminate the middle class.
..........Decimation of US UNIONS has also been a factor in the demise of the middle class.
..........Part of the reason behind the UHC executive shooting and the so-called "UNEXPLAINED" lack of sympathy for the murdered executive and his family is explained by the MIDDLE CLASS TENSION existing throughout US society. I do NOT see this going away soon BECAUSE of the problems that I have enumerated above.

[jimjamuser]

However when your child is denied possible lifesaving treatment, either by surgical or chemical intervention, by your healthcare. One might have different thoughts. It happens everyday, maybe hasn’t crossed your lifetime, but many have denied care, that it would be for some not just a bad experience, but a trip to the cemetery.
That was the plot of a popular movie with Denzel Washington.

[Rainger99]

That was the plot of a popular movie with Denzel Washington.

The movie was John Q.

John Q. - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Q).

[golfing eagles]

It is generally common knowledge that in the 50s and 60s that a middle class family could have as many as 3 children and STILL be happy and feeling successful with their lives with ONLY ONE PERSON WORKING FULL TIME AT ONLY ONE JOB (usually the husband). Today it is generally considered necessary for BOTH the husband and wife to work (often more than 1 job for greater than 40 hours per week). And then they must decided IF they can afford to have ONE child.
.........So, we ask ourselves, "What has changed in those 65-some years until today". Obviously, a lot has changed, but to me, the most important change has been the tax laws changing to benefit the upper class over the middle class.
.........Certainly, there have been other noteworthy changes. The OUTSOURCING of American manufacturing has benefited the upper 10% and has HURT the middle class, which by 2000 really ceased to exist.
..........Increased immigration after 1980 also has helped eliminate the middle class.
..........Decimation of US UNIONS has also been a factor in the demise of the middle class.
..........Part of the reason behind the UHC executive shooting and the so-called "UNEXPLAINED" lack of sympathy for the murdered executive and his family is explained by the MIDDLE CLASS TENSION existing throughout US society. I do NOT see this going away soon BECAUSE of the problems that I have enumerated above.

If one wants economic equality, might I suggest North Korea????

[CoachKandSportsguy]

If one wants economic equality, might I suggest North Korea????

The big picture point is that when the size of imbalance gets to an extreme, where the masses can overwhelm the plutocrats, and there is desperation for survival, to avoid some pain of sorts, desperate people can perform desperate acts, and movements can snowball. .
FOMO is a strong human herding effect towards varies themes du jour.

I would suggest that most in TV are not in the desperate camp, but that doesn't mean desperation can't be real, and that the French revolution can't happen here over other issues than food. . . The worst of all worlds happened in Greece, where the rich class took all their money and moved out of the country. . . leaving the country very poor due to lack of money and opportunity. .

Europe's world dominance in the late 1800s was surpassed by the American world dominance in the 1900s and early 2000s. . will that continue, or fall as all major civilation leasers have, mostly from within. .

GE is correct to move to NK because the plutocrats keep the proletariat in check with force, unlike the freedoms where have in the US/European cultures. .

[Dusty_Star]

I think we are missing the more important lesson here. What the hell is the current higher education system brainwashing the youth with? This kid was a high school valedictorian and attended a prestigious Ivy League University. He is a good looking kid, comes from a wealthy family, has what is considered the best education available, and seemingly had the world by the balls. Now he is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison as someone’s pretty boy bitch (lucky for him NY doesn’t have the death penalty). Back in the day, good educational facilities taught students how to respectfully earn a good living in the corporate world. Now they jam DEI down students throats and teach them that hard working capitalism (which creates good and honest jobs) is a bad thing. Add to that, the kid is a social media hero for committing a premeditated cold blooded murder. WTF?

You are on to something. This is a link to a professor at UPenn who says she has 'never been prouder to be a professor at UP' while a popular protest song from Les Mis plays. https://x.com/EYakoby/status/1866506642977611970 Very strange reaction to a murder.

[Caymus]

The big picture point is that when the size of imbalance gets to an extreme, where the masses can overwhelm the plutocrats, and there is desperation for survival, to avoid some pain of sorts, desperate people can perform desperate acts, and movements can snowball. .
FOMO is a strong human herding effect towards varies themes du jour.

I would suggest that most in TV are not in the desperate camp, but that doesn't mean desperation can't be real, and that the French revolution can't happen here over other issues than food. . . The worst of all worlds happened in Greece, where the rich class took all their money and moved out of the country. . . leaving the country very poor due to lack of money and opportunity. .

Europe's world dominance in the late 1800s was surpassed by the American world dominance in the 1900s and early 2000s. . will that continue, or fall as all major civilation leasers have, mostly from within. .

GE is correct to move to NK because the plutocrats keep the proletariat in check with force, unlike the freedoms where have in the US/European cultures. .

The shooter is from a wealthy family.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The shooter is from a wealthy family.

don't negate the post, wait and see what he states his motivations are. . doesn't mean he has alot of money, just means that he "potentially" has access to alot of money.

[elevatorman]

In Attica health care is free, just not much of it.

[jimjamuser]

The big picture point is that when the size of imbalance gets to an extreme, where the masses can overwhelm the plutocrats, and there is desperation for survival, to avoid some pain of sorts, desperate people can perform desperate acts, and movements can snowball. .
FOMO is a strong human herding effect towards varies themes du jour.

I would suggest that most in TV are not in the desperate camp, but that doesn't mean desperation can't be real, and that the French revolution can't happen here over other issues than food. . . The worst of all worlds happened in Greece, where the rich class took all their money and moved out of the country. . . leaving the country very poor due to lack of money and opportunity. .

Europe's world dominance in the late 1800s was surpassed by the American world dominance in the 1900s and early 2000s. . will that continue, or fall as all major civilation leasers have, mostly from within. .

GE is correct to move to NK because the plutocrats keep the proletariat in check with force, unlike the freedoms where have in the US/European cultures. .
I believe that this post aligns with my post in substance. This post is much more elegant than mine. It brings in a nice historic flavor to the subject.

[jimjamuser]

If one wants economic equality, might I suggest North Korea????
What I WANT is economic FAIRNESS as there was in the 50s and 60s when America had the world's strongest middle class. After 1980 the average middle class worker's pay stayed the same (made ZERO gains) when inflation is considered - from 1980 until today. After Covid there was a small gain in average pay.
.........What I would have liked to HAVE HAPPENED is for the tax laws to NOT have been changed toward benefiting the upper class. That would have kept the working class strong (and incidentally made the US stronger than it is today). I would have liked to have the Politicians from 1980 to today to have RESISTED all forms of OUTSOURCING to China and other countries. I would have LIKED the Politicians after 1960 to have KEPT the population of the US from rising above 260 million people by decreasing IMMIGRATION to only a few needed Physicians and top end Scientists. Note now we have so many unnecessary low level people ALREADY in the USA, that we are now thinking about deporting 10 or 20 million people. That would be REVERSE immigration. What an interesting concept. What if a country DECIDED what their BEST maximum population SHOULD be. Switzerland may be the closest country that tries to keep an IDEAL population level. Australia also has strict rules about immigration.
...........I would also RESPECT and encourage ALL UNIONS.
..........If the US had done those things that I outlined above, I believe that America would be STRONGER than it is today and Americans would be happier and wealthier. It would be like "the streets were REALLY paved in GOLD".

[jimjamuser]

If one wants economic equality, might I suggest North Korea????
Oh, I believe in Capitalism, definitely!!!! Just a purer form of Capitalism like in the 50s and 60s. Today the US government and its laws have caused a fertile ground for dissatisfaction and the dissatisfied have resorted to violence against a CEO of UHC and also a bullet hitting the ear......... Mr. Luigi Mangione may or may not be dissatisfied that the US middle class is not stronger and strong enough NOT to resist a GREEDY CEO of an insurance company that denies 30% of its customers claims. Luigi has become like a Robin Hood figure because he robbed from the RICH. He didn't rob for money and he was wrong to take a life. But many businesses in the US are ROBBING Americans every day. Some pharmacy medicines are priced like a Robin Hood highway robbery.
.........Most Americans would agree that the US form of Medical DELIVERY that DEPENDS on GREEDY insurance companies should be CHANGED. A killer with a gun is a shocking example of the need for change - to keep Capitalism in medicine, but ELIMINATE the GREED.

[Michael G.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfssjo92G8

[Taltarzac725]

The shooter is just some evil SOB who wanted to be famous like the Unabomber. Sick that some people are trying to make a hero out of him.

[golfing eagles]

What I WANT is economic FAIRNESS as there was in the 50s and 60s when America had the world's strongest middle class. After 1980 the average middle class worker's pay stayed the same (made ZERO gains) when inflation is considered - from 1980 until today. After Covid there was a small gain in average pay.
.........What I would have liked to HAVE HAPPENED is for the tax laws to NOT have been changed toward benefiting the upper class. That would have kept the working class strong (and incidentally made the US stronger than it is today). I would have liked to have the Politicians from 1980 to today to have RESISTED all forms of OUTSOURCING to China and other countries. I would have LIKED the Politicians after 1960 to have KEPT the population of the US from rising above 260 million people by decreasing IMMIGRATION to only a few needed Physicians and top end Scientists. Note now we have so many unnecessary low level people ALREADY in the USA, that we are now thinking about deporting 10 or 20 million people. That would be REVERSE immigration. What an interesting concept. What if a country DECIDED what their BEST maximum population SHOULD be. Switzerland may be the closest country that tries to keep an IDEAL population level. Australia also has strict rules about immigration.
...........I would also RESPECT and encourage ALL UNIONS.
..........If the US had done those things that I outlined above, I believe that America would be STRONGER than it is today and Americans would be happier and wealthier. It would be like "the streets were REALLY paved in GOLD".

Wow. You think the tax rate in the 50's was fair??? Some paid 0 while others paid 85%! Here's what's "fair"---a flat 17%, PERIOD.

[Happydaz]

The shooter is just some evil SOB who wanted to be famous like the Unabomber. Sick that some people are trying to make a hero out of him.

I agree with you. Although the internet has been a vehicle for a lot of good, unfortunately it at times can give rise to a very dark side of humanity that hides behind anonymity to say many awful things. Seeing what happens on teen social sites and children being driven to suicide does show the depravity that can inhabit the web. Australia is on the right track limiting internet access to young people in order to protect them. We adults have to make our own decisions. It is disturbing to me to see all the class warfare, anti business, and political theories as to why this happened. Some even theorize that the man himself or his wife had him killed by this amateur. Is it possible that this is just one man who went to New York alone and murdered this businessman?

[New Englander]

The shooter is just some evil SOB who wanted to be famous like the Unabomber. Sick that some people are trying to make a hero out of him.

Right, the shooter is a cold blooded murderer.

[jimjamuser]

Wow. You think the tax rate in the 50's was fair??? Some paid 0 while others paid 85%! Here's what's "fair"---a flat 17%, PERIOD.
Many rich people pay ZERO taxes today. A flat tax system would only help rich people and hurt the most important segment of ANY society - the middle class. A highly progressive tax that forces rich people to pay their fair share is the best because those that are born lucky enough to be rich will be able to help out those that were not so lucky and some that have physical problems.
........Incidentally, one of the main ideas of the early Colonists were that each generation should earn their OWN way. That they should NOT get inheritances from their parents. Inheritances makes rich families, which eventually develop into KINGS and DICTATORS. There should be zero transfer of inter - generational wealth.

[jimjamuser]

I agree with you. Although the internet has been a vehicle for a lot of good, unfortunately it at times can give rise to a very dark side of humanity that hides behind anonymity to say many awful things. Seeing what happens on teen social sites and children being driven to suicide does show the depravity that can inhabit the web. Australia is on the right track limiting internet access to young people in order to protect them. We adults have to make our own decisions. It is disturbing to me to see all the class warfare, anti business, and political theories as to why this happened. Some even theorize that the man himself or his wife had him killed by this amateur. Is it possible that this is just one man who went to New York alone and murdered this businessman?
A murderer is a murderer and that IS very wrong. But, the important point about this interesting situation IS that many on the internet REALIZE that it is WRONG and SHOULD BE A CRIME to deny insurance claims at a ridiculously high rate. Greed approaches a CRIME when people get a medical procedure denied that would have saved their lives.
............Let me put this on a balance beam .......DEAD customers that were denied care versus more money going into the hands of GREEDY corporations.

[jimjamuser]

Wow. You think the tax rate in the 50's was fair??? Some paid 0 while others paid 85%! Here's what's "fair"---a flat 17%, PERIOD.
Flat income taxes have gone the way of the DODO bird because they are just WAY wrong. Florida has a flat tax called Sales tax and can get away with it because they have so many visitors from Europe to the Magic Kingdom. Florida had better hope that Europeans do NOT decide to boycott Florida.

[mbene]

The shooter is just some evil SOB who wanted to be famous like the Unabomber. Sick that some people are trying to make a hero out of him.

How many people have been murdered by healthcare companies denying coverage, coverage you pay for in the name of greed. The largest reason people file bankruptcy is because of medical debt, this is unconscionable.

UHC was denying more than any other company. These companies don't even use medical professionals or even someone with a medical background to determine if claims should be paid or denied. One doctor was saying that a patient was denied chemotherapy because the person making the decision didn't know that a carcinoma was cancer!

[manaboutown]

He had spinal surgery to his lower back and was living with debilitating back pain. Probably on lots of pain meds...

Interesting that he shot the CEO in the back...

Luigi Mangione told friends about back pain before CEO slaying: reports | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/unitedhealthcare-ceo-murder-suspect-luigi-mangione-complained-about-back-surgery-before-slaying?intcmp=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwY2xjawHHDhdleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXlCKvHDw5QSb UTJVKgDcP29CqUp52rbJ_hKjabg2EtpSqCZEIKQw4Htvw_aem_ ulJB6uwcqKUNaw4j664EUw)

[Number 10 GI]

Many rich people pay ZERO taxes today. A flat tax system would only help rich people and hurt the most important segment of ANY society - the middle class. A highly progressive tax that forces rich people to pay their fair share is the best because those that are born lucky enough to be rich will be able to help out those that were not so lucky and some that have physical problems.
........Incidentally, one of the main ideas of the early Colonists were that each generation should earn their OWN way. That they should NOT get inheritances from their parents. Inheritances makes rich families, which eventually develop into KINGS and DICTATORS. There should be zero transfer of inter - generational wealth.

Envy, one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

[Number 10 GI]

What I WANT is economic FAIRNESS as there was in the 50s and 60s when America had the world's strongest middle class. After 1980 the average middle class worker's pay stayed the same (made ZERO gains) when inflation is considered - from 1980 until today. After Covid there was a small gain in average pay.
.........What I would have liked to HAVE HAPPENED is for the tax laws to NOT have been changed toward benefiting the upper class. That would have kept the working class strong (and incidentally made the US stronger than it is today). I would have liked to have the Politicians from 1980 to today to have RESISTED all forms of OUTSOURCING to China and other countries. I would have LIKED the Politicians after 1960 to have KEPT the population of the US from rising above 260 million people by decreasing IMMIGRATION to only a few needed Physicians and top end Scientists. Note now we have so many unnecessary low level people ALREADY in the USA, that we are now thinking about deporting 10 or 20 million people. That would be REVERSE immigration. What an interesting concept. What if a country DECIDED what their BEST maximum population SHOULD be. Switzerland may be the closest country that tries to keep an IDEAL population level. Australia also has strict rules about immigration.
...........I would also RESPECT and encourage ALL UNIONS.
..........If the US had done those things that I outlined above, I believe that America would be STRONGER than it is today and Americans would be happier and wealthier. It would be like "the streets were REALLY paved in GOLD".

All I remember about the 50's, as a young kid, is hard times. I grew up poor and many of our neighbors and friends weren't much better off than us. I never experienced those good old days in the 50's.
Manufacturing is what built the middle class in this country. The demise of the middle class started when U.S. manufacturers, starting in the 80's if I remember correctly, began moving their plants to 3d world countries and shuttering their facilities in the U.S. We need to bring back manufacturing into this country.

[jimbomaybe]

What I WANT is economic FAIRNESS as there was in the 50s and 60s when America had the world's strongest middle class. After 1980 the average middle class worker's pay stayed the same (made ZERO gains) when inflation is considered - from 1980 until today. After Covid there was a small gain in average pay.
.........What I would have liked to HAVE HAPPENED is for the tax laws to NOT have been changed toward benefiting the upper class. That would have kept the working class strong (and incidentally made the US stronger than it is today). I would have liked to have the Politicians from 1980 to today to have RESISTED all forms of OUTSOURCING to China and other countries. I would have LIKED the Politicians after 1960 to have KEPT the population of the US from rising above 260 million people by decreasing IMMIGRATION to only a few needed Physicians and top end Scientists. Note now we have so many unnecessary low level people ALREADY in the USA, that we are now thinking about deporting 10 or 20 million people. That would be REVERSE immigration. What an interesting concept. What if a country DECIDED what their BEST maximum population SHOULD be. Switzerland may be the closest country that tries to keep an IDEAL population level. Australia also has strict rules about immigration.
...........I would also RESPECT and encourage ALL UNIONS.
..........If the US had done those things that I outlined above, I believe that America would be STRONGER than it is today and Americans would be happier and wealthier. It would be like "the streets were REALLY paved in GOLD".

Unfortunately the world is a different place than the 50s . WW2 devastated a large section of the developed world, at the same time stimulating the growth of industry here in the USA, Third world countries were very much third world countries lacking much basic infrastructure. The situation geopolitically, economically and militarily put the western democracies in a position of the greatest leverage. One wage earner households could do OK. The devastated countries rebuilt, third world countries improved their economic potential all that = competition and now two wage earners per household is normal in order to have the standard of living people want . But that competition continues , it will not stop, economically, geopolitically, militarily,, nothing is as certain as change

[Rainger99]

I found this on the internet.

Medicare Advantage plans denied 7.4% of 46.2 million requests submitted in 2022. This was up from 5.7% in 2019.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I found this on the internet.

Medicare Advantage plans denied 7.4% of 46.2 million requests submitted in 2022. This was up from 5.7% in 2019.

...and United Healthcare denied almost 33% of claims submitted to plans covering subscribers of their marketplace plans.

Pretty sure the shooter would not have been on a Medicare Advantage plan since he's only in his 20's.

[JMintzer]

...and United Healthcare denied almost 33% of claims submitted to plans covering subscribers of their marketplace plans.

Pretty sure the shooter would not have been on a Medicare Advantage plan since he's only in his 20's.

As a medical provider for nearly 40 years, I cannot remember the last time UHC denied a claim we made for a patient...

[Rainger99]

...and United Healthcare denied almost 33% of claims submitted to plans covering subscribers of their marketplace plans.

Pretty sure the shooter would not have been on a Medicare Advantage plan since he's only in his 20's.

I agree that he was not on Advantage.

I posted it because UHC Advantage is very popular in the Villages and I thought people should be aware of UHC’s track record.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

As a medical provider for nearly 40 years, I cannot remember the last time UHC denied a claim we made for a patient...

As someone who's been a patient with health insurance for the past 63 years, I can't remember the last time my health insurance denied a claim made by me or my doctor on my behalf for treatment. Does that mean everyone who claims they were denied is lying? If so, then wouldn't that also imply that your claim that you've ever had a claim denied in 40 years is also a lie?

OR - more realistic - personal anecdotes mean bubkes. Your uhc group may only take people that you know will have their issues approved in advance. Pre-approvals, coordination between specialists and pcps - continuity of care, end all that sort of thing, can make it such that the odds of success is high when everything is communicating with each other.

[jimbomaybe]

Envy, one of the Seven Deadly Sins.
Many people have need of a Bogey Man, a target for discontent

[fishon]

All this talk about denial of claims and the shooter was not a client of UHC. He is psychotic.
Brought on by drug use.

[JMintzer]

As someone who's been a patient with health insurance for the past 63 years, I can't remember the last time my health insurance denied a claim made by me or my doctor on my behalf for treatment. Does that mean everyone who claims they were denied is lying? If so, then wouldn't that also imply that your claim that you've nhttps://d32rzbb554tqz0.cloudfront.net/forums/images/smilies/hatsoff.gifever had a claim denied in 40 years is also a lie?https://d32rzbb554tqz0.cloudfront.net/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

OR - more realistic - personal anectodehttps://d32rzbb554tqz0.cloudfront.net/forums/images/smilies/MOJE_whot.gifs mean bubkes. Your uhc group may only take people that you know will have their issues apprroved in advance. Pre-approvals, coordination betweeen specilists and pcps - continueity of care, end all that sort of thing that goes together with Page not found - The Villages, Florida - 55+ Active Adult Retirement Community Website (https://d32rzbb554tqz0.cloudfront.net/forums/images/smilies/BigApplause.gifcontinuity) of care, can make it such that the odd s f0r success is high twhen eveyt0nge is communicating with eatch other.https://d32rzbb554tqz0.cloudfront.net/forums/images/smilies/boom.gif

"My UHC Group?

I have no idea what that means...

We've accepted ALL UHC patients for decades...

And you're up to date on every claim you've made for the last 63 years?

How old are you again?

[Rainger99]

This morning's news stated he was charged with SECOND degree murder. I'm not a lawyer, but he picked his target, hunted him down and killed him. If that's not premeditation, I don't know what is.

They have upgraded the charges. He is being charged with first degree murder.


Luigi Mangione returns to NYC Thursday, faces first-degree murder charge in UnitedHeathcare CEO shooting (https://nypost.com/2024/12/18/us-news/luigi-mangione-returns-to-nyc-thursday-faces-first-degree-murder-charge-in-unitedheathcare-ceo-shooting/)

[Bay Kid]

He will get a slap on the hand because of insanity. Of course he is insane....