Well this is a cozy deal

[BrianL99]

As reported this morning in a newspaper not to be mentioned, the District just leased 38,648 sq. ft. of Office space in Brownwood, in a building the Developer apparently no longer needs.

It's not clear from what I read, who is paying for the "fitup" of the building (conversion to office space, fixtures and furnishings).

The cost is $1.5M per year and I suspect that's NNN, which means it really costs about $2M per year.

That's $40 per sq. ft. in base (fixed) rent. If the lease is NNN, it's likely another $10 per sq. ft. in CAM & Taxes.

The office space market is dead across the USA. The number of empty or nearly empty office building, is staggering. There are landlords out there, that have over a million square feet of empty office space.

The average "asking price" for 1st class office space in Orlando today, is under $30/sq. ft. In Ocala, it's $23/sq. ft.

A 1st class office building in Metro Boston that housed one of the most prestigious high-tech companies in the world, just sold for less than $30/sq. ft. It was built 10 years ago for $300/sq. ft.

More than 64% of government employees across the country, have a "hybrid schedule" and don't go to their office every day. A recent US Senate report shows that less than 6% of Federal Employees go to their office every day.

[tophcfa]

Doesn’t appear to pass the sniff test of an arm’s length transaction.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If I'm reading the context and intention of the OP - it's a concern.

The office space in Brownwood is owned by the Developers. The District (A Villages governmental entity) is paying the Developer around 20% over the typical average office space costs for this part of the state. The concern is that Villagers are overpaying for district office space and that it's some kind of "nudge nudge wink wink" deal.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

The average "asking price" for 1st class office space in Orlando today, is under $30/sq. ft. In Ocala, it's $23/sq. ft.

A 1st class office building in Metro Boston that housed one of the most prestigious high-tech companies in the world, just sold for less than $30/sq. ft. It was built 10 years ago for $300/sq. ft.

From where I google, there isn't any Class A / 1st Class office space available in TV other than in Brownwood. . . looks like a deal from a monopoly , .

:a20::a20::shrug:

[BrianL99]

From where I google, there isn't any Class A / 1st Class office space available in TV other than in Brownwood. . . looks like a deal from a monopoly , .

:a20::a20::shrug:

& of course, it has to be in Brownwood ... not that I would classify the building as "1st Class Office Space", I was being generous.

The district should be embarrassed.

[CarlR33]

Where is the POA when you need it, LOL

[Bill14564]

Is there any evidence at all that the District is paying less where they are now or will be paying more than anyone else with office space in Brownwood?

[Bogie Shooter]

Is there any evidence at all that the District is paying less where they are now or will be paying more than anyone else with office space in Brownwood?

A rational post…….

[BrianL99]

A rational post…….

Oh?

The Rent (not including NNN charges, if any), increased by 70%. They increased space by 20%.

There's not enough information in the article to calculate the increase rental rate per square foot, but it appears the increase on a per foot basis, is about 60% ($25/sq ft increased to $40/sq ft.

This according to a newspaper not to be mentioned and a memo from District Director Kenny Blocker.

Also, there's no law that I know of, that says the District's Administrative (non-customer contact) functions need to be located in The Villages ... where they can ONLY lease space from the Developer who owns all the land. (I'd love to know their rationalization for avoiding "sole source bidding" requirements.)

What the hell, the State of Florida has their "administrative offices" in Tallahassee, 200 miles away from us and 500 miles from Miami. They simply setup satellite offices to handle "customer contact" locations where necessary.

[Bogie Shooter]

Seemed like reasonable questions.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

& of course, it has to be in Brownwood ... not that I would classify the building as "1st Class Office Space", I was being generous.

The district should be embarrassed.

My post was mostly sarcasm cloaked in dry humor. It's all a monopoly cult. And if they get really greedy, the place will implode if the district costs get out of hand and the annual increases kills resales. . , like the new FL HOA requirements to be 100% reserved. HOA payments are now the size of the mortgage payment at many developments.

How did the business end?

slowly, then suddenly!

[Bill14564]

Oh?

The Rent (not including NNN charges, if any), increased by 70%. They increased space by 20%.

There's not enough information in the article to calculate the increase rental rate per square foot, but it appears the increase on a per foot basis, is about 60% ($25/sq ft increased to $40/sq ft.

This according to a newspaper not to be mentioned and a memo from District Director Kenny Blocker.

Also, there's no law that I know of, that says the District's Administrative (non-customer contact) functions need to be located in The Villages ... where they can ONLY lease space from the Developer who owns all the land. (I'd love to know their rationalization for avoiding "sole source bidding" requirements.)

What the hell, the State of Florida has their "administrative offices" in Tallahassee, 200 miles away from us and 500 miles from Miami. They simply setup satellite offices to handle "customer contact" locations where necessary.

It may surprise you to learn that Tallahassee, 200 miles from us and 500 miles from Miami, is the State Capitol. Where else would the State of Florida have their administrative offices? Or are you suggesting Florida should move its capitol?

Could the District operate from LSL? Sure, but the Villages has doubled in size since they started in LSL so it makes sense that they need more space and consolidating to a centralized location has benefits,

With a little less rounding it looks like $28/sqft to $44/sqft for a 44% increase. That’s certainly a healthy increase but again, is it out of line for the current cost of space in Brownwood? There has been a lot of talk of inflation in the last four years, perhaps this increase is an adjustment to catch up.

I have no doubt the District is paying a premium price for this space but I don’t know that it is out of line. The District and the Villages are closely related and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that the negotiations on price were somewhat less than difficult. Still, you get what you pay for and I’m pretty happy with what I get so if this is the cost then I’m not unhappy to pay it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Could the District operate from LSL? Sure, but the Villages has doubled in size since they started in LSL so it makes sense that they need more space and consolidating to a centralized location has benefits,



Wrong question. Right question: Could the District administration offices operate in non-Developer-owned property? Yes, yes they could. They could rent space in an office area on 301 NEAR Brownwood. They could rent office space on 466A somewhere NEAR Brownwood. They could rent office space on 466A between Buena Vista and Morse.

There is nothing stopping the District GOVERNMENT administration offices from renting anywhere in the general vicinity of Brownwood, but not in a Developer-owned building. This isn't a rec center that needs to be golf-cart accessible. It's government offices. They shouldn't feel any obligation to pay the developer rent and in fact, it seems a bit of a conflict of interest.

[Bill14564]

Wrong question. Right question: Could the District administration offices operate in non-Developer-owned property? Yes, yes they could. They could rent space in an office area on 301 NEAR Brownwood. They could rent office space on 466A somewhere NEAR Brownwood. They could rent office space on 466A between Buena Vista and Morse.

There is nothing stopping the District GOVERNMENT administration offices from renting anywhere in the general vicinity of Brownwood, but not in a Developer-owned building. This isn't a rec center that needs to be golf-cart accessible. It's government offices. They shouldn't feel any obligation to pay the developer rent and in fact, it seems a bit of a conflict of interest.

Seriously??? Are you proposing that District offices for a golf cart community relocate to an area unreachable by golf cart? In that case they should consider some of that space in Boston.

Administrative offices for Florida are in Florida. Administrative offices for Sumter County are in Sumter County. Administrative offices for the Villages should be….. someplace else??

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Seriously??? Are you proposing that District offices for a golf cart community relocate to an area unreachable by golf cart? In that case they should consider some of that space in Boston.

Administrative offices for Florida are in Florida. Administrative offices for Sumter County are in Sumter County. Administrative offices for the Villages should be….. someplace else??

Administrative offices are generally in buildings that are owned by the county/municipality/state they serve. The State administration offices are in state-owned property. In fact, there is an actual law about this, that counties MAY NOT CHARGE rent to tax collectors for that county.

So if you want to compare apples to apples, then sure - let the Developers open up space in Brownwood to the district's administration offices, but NOT charge any rent at all.

[Bill14564]

Administrative offices are generally in buildings that are owned by the county/municipality/state they serve. The State administration offices are in state-owned property. In fact, there is an actual law about this, that counties MAY NOT CHARGE rent to tax collectors for that county.

So if you want to compare apples to apples, then sure - let the Developers open up space in Brownwood to the district's administration offices, but NOT charge any rent at all.

That’s an idea. Instead of renting space the District could purchase property and fund the construction of a building. I wonder how that would go over.


Or, to my point, the District, being the VCCDD, should withdraw back within VCCDD boundaries to Spanish Springs. Perhaps the additional visits from residents of Fenney, Lake Denham, and Newell will help revitalize that square.

[Altavia]

That’s an idea. Instead of renting space the District could purchase property and fund the construction of a building. I wonder how that would go over.


Or, to my point, the District, being the VCCDD, should withdraw back within VCCDD boundaries to Spanish Springs. Perhaps the additional visits from residents of Fenney, Lake Denham, and Newell will help revitalize that square[/

Even more leased space is coming available as The Developer is adding significant office space in Middleton and is consolidating many workers at that location.

Additional office space is being constructed in Eastport.

They also have no problem sitting on property until they get the price they want.

[rsmurano]

Do they need all the office space? Can their employees work from home? I worked from home for the last 10 years of my career. I was in high tech and I could have lived anywhere in the world as long as I had internet and an airport nearby (within 100 miles). My boss was over 1000 miles away and my coworkers worked all over the states, Europe, India, and in China and Japan.
IMO, unless you have to physically touch something in the office, you could work from home. If the boss can’t handle that, then get a new boss

[keithwand]

From where I google, there isn't any Class A / 1st Class office space available in TV other than in Brownwood. . . looks like a deal from a monopoly , .

:a20::a20::shrug:

What isn’t a monopoly in the villages?
The restaurants for sure.
Pretty much FMK or Sulimens.
Golf cart, stores, hair salons…
Never good.

[jimmy o]

As reported this morning in a newspaper not to be mentioned, the District just leased 38,648 sq. ft. of Office space in Brownwood, in a building the Developer apparently no longer needs.

It's not clear from what I read, who is paying for the "fitup" of the building (conversion to office space, fixtures and furnishings).

The cost is $1.5M per year and I suspect that's NNN, which means it really costs about $2M per year.

That's $40 per sq. ft. in base (fixed) rent. If the lease is NNN, it's likely another $10 per sq. ft. in CAM & Taxes.

The office space market is dead across the USA. The number of empty or nearly empty office building, is staggering. There are landlords out there, that have over a million square feet of empty office space.

The average "asking price" for 1st class office space in Orlando today, is under $30/sq. ft. In Ocala, it's $23/sq. ft.

A 1st class office building in Metro Boston that housed one of the most prestigious high-tech companies in the world, just sold for less than $30/sq. ft. It was built 10 years ago for $300/sq. ft.

More than 64% of government employees across the country, have a "hybrid schedule" and don't go to their office every day. A recent US Senate report shows that less than 6% of Federal Employees go to their office every day.
You have accusations and guesses and assumptions. If you’re that suspicious why are you still living here? I know why I’m here, because I like it, and I’m thankful for the Morse family that created this great retirement place. This happens to be a business for them, and businesses are supposed to make money. If they don’t make money they close, is that what you want? All you complainers should consider what would happen here if TV was sold ….. Have you given it a moment of thought? … believe it or not most Villagers are happy here, and grateful for the Morse family.

[BlueStarAirlines]

I couldn't have said it better. There is a small subset of Villagers that find things to complain and nitpick about. If one reads this forum for a long enough time you can guess the bent of their response even before reading.

[Rocksnap]

Eastport will have a huge new sales center. I believe the Brownwood sales center will relocate here. I’m thinking this new location will be big enough to absorb corporate offices too?

[Marathon Man]

Seriously, I would move out of TV if every other day I was finding something that angered me. Personally, I am fully enjoying my well-earned retirement in a community that provides so much enjoyment for, what I consider, a bargain price.

[MX rider]

You have accusations and guesses and assumptions. If you’re that suspicious why are you still living here? I know why I’m here, because I like it, and I’m thankful for the Morse family that created this great retirement place. This happens to be a business for them, and businesses are supposed to make money. If they don’t make money they close, is that what you want? All you complainers should consider what would happen here if TV was sold ….. Have you given it a moment of thought? … believe it or not most Villagers are happy here, and grateful for the Morse family.

Very well said! We love it here and we feel it's a bargain, considering all we get for what we pay.
Talk to people like our friends in Bonita Springs that have an HOA. I would not want any part of those.

[Bilyclub]

I don’t think anybody’s questioning how good we have it here. The problem might be that a quasi governmental agency which is controlled by the developer does not seem accountable to the residents that are paying most of the bills. Does this contract go before the ACC and PWAC ?

[Laker]

I think all the non-stop complaniers should buy some land nearby and start "New and Improved Villages", and they could compete with The Villages, and get super-rich!!!

No? I didn't think so. Don't have the money? Maybe you could borrow it from The Villages!!!

[Topspinmo]

I see you’re still learning how things works in villages.

[Justputt]

Unless the lease arrangements get way out of hand to the clear detriment of those paying the bills, I see no issue here. I look at it no different than a family member or friend renting from another friend. Would you rather pay rent to someone you know or are related to or send it elsewhere? IMO, this is no different than the mentality to "shop local" and support local businesses!

It's too nice a day to dwell on complaints! We're retired, so ENJOY life!

[BrianL99]

I don’t think anybody’s questioning how good we have it here. The problem might be that a quasi governmental agency which is controlled by the developer does not seem accountable to the residents that are paying most of the bills. Does this contract go before the ACC and PWAC ?


Thank you, you're absolutely correct.

& I searched the District's website last night and I can't find the Bid Offering nor the contract. It's probably there, I just couldn't find it.

I don't believe it goes before anyone other than the District. I think the District can do it on their own motion, but I believe it's subject to all the procurement laws and regulations.

I'm sure the District would say they didn't really have a choice, because they "need to be in the 'center' of The Villages". I think that's the disconnect. If you go into a bidding (or purchasing) process, with such narrow parameters, you never get much for your money. That's why they call it "sole source procurement". Only one Seller (or provider) is able to provide what you insist you need.

[Mikalle]

As reported this morning in a newspaper not to be mentioned, the District just leased 38,648 sq. ft. of Office space in Brownwood, in a building the Developer apparently no longer needs.

It's not clear from what I read, who is paying for the "fitup" of the building (conversion to office space, fixtures and furnishings).

The cost is $1.5M per year and I suspect that's NNN, which means it really costs about $2M per year.

That's $40 per sq. ft. in base (fixed) rent. If the lease is NNN, it's likely another $10 per sq. ft. in CAM & Taxes.

The office space market is dead across the USA. The number of empty or nearly empty office building, is staggering. There are landlords out there, that have over a million square feet of empty office space.

The average "asking price" for 1st class office space in Orlando today, is under $30/sq. ft. In Ocala, it's $23/sq. ft.

A 1st class office building in Metro Boston that housed one of the most prestigious high-tech companies in the world, just sold for less than $30/sq. ft. It was built 10 years ago for $300/sq. ft.

More than 64% of government employees across the country, have a "hybrid schedule" and don't go to their office every day. A recent US Senate report shows that less than 6% of Federal Employees go to their office every day.


Thanks for the detailed and insightful information

[Sandy and Ed]

Seriously??? Are you proposing that District offices for a golf cart community relocate to an area unreachable by golf cart? In that case they should consider some of that space in Boston.

Administrative offices for Florida are in Florida. Administrative offices for Sumter County are in Sumter County. Administrative offices for the Villages should be….. someplace else??
Pretty good point. We’re paring cheese and chasing dollars here. Personally I prefer having the offices for the community within the community being served. (……but I guess we should always check under the bed for the boogie man coming to get us?)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Pretty good point. We’re paring cheese and chasing dollars here. Personally I prefer having the offices for the community within the community being served. (……but I guess we should always check under the bed for the boogie man coming to get us?)

The web based self serve works for about 90% of the standard transactions, however, the other 10% not so much. This is where the cost cutting technology saves labor costs, until people start messing it up, or the exceptions require manual work.

Same in the corporate world with HR self serve. I worked with a Workday conversion from oracle peoplesoft, and they laid off all the HR hourly data entry / help / problem fixers. And then they had to hire two back to fix the problems and continually educate the new managers and above. Need to treat employees and customers like humans, not like automatons for cost savings, even when you are a monopoly

No different here other than you are dealing with a slower, less technological savy, and more esoteric, micromanagement ruled organization . . . . So yes, there should be district customer in person to solve problems location at every major square. Hire at least 2 people, or three, and then keep stabs on the number of customers entering and leaving to properly staff the location. . .

this is basic operations management, which the descendents use consultants for, and consultants should never be needed if you understand your business and your customers.

good luck to us!

[BrianL99]

I see no issue here. I look at it no different than a family member or friend renting from another friend. Would you rather pay rent to someone you know or are related to or send it elsewhere? IMO, this is no different than the mentality to "shop local" and support local businesses!



Wow

Some "friends" would give you a "deal".

Others just take advantage.

[bowlingal]

the local paper would be the Daily Sun. You can mention the name, Brian. It's not a curse word

[MandoMan]

As reported this morning in a newspaper not to be mentioned, the District just leased 38,648 sq. ft. of Office space in Brownwood, in a building the Developer apparently no longer needs.

It's not clear from what I read, who is paying for the "fitup" of the building (conversion to office space, fixtures and furnishings).

The cost is $1.5M per year and I suspect that's NNN, which means it really costs about $2M per year.

That's $40 per sq. ft. in base (fixed) rent. If the lease is NNN, it's likely another $10 per sq. ft. in CAM & Taxes.

The office space market is dead across the USA. The number of empty or nearly empty office building, is staggering. There are landlords out there, that have over a million square feet of empty office space.

The average "asking price" for 1st class office space in Orlando today, is under $30/sq. ft. In Ocala, it's $23/sq. ft.

A 1st class office building in Metro Boston that housed one of the most prestigious high-tech companies in the world, just sold for less than $30/sq. ft. It was built 10 years ago for $300/sq. ft.

More than 64% of government employees across the country, have a "hybrid schedule" and don't go to their office every day. A recent US Senate report shows that less than 6% of Federal Employees go to their office every day.

They sort of have to pay what they are asked to pay. Would you be okay with their offices being in, say, Lady Lake or Oxford or even Ocala? Lots of residents visit those offices.

[ltcdfancher]

The SS customer service rep is working from home in The Villages until 2029. There’s another cush deal.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

They sort of have to pay what they are asked to pay. Would you be okay with their offices being in, say, Lady Lake or Oxford or even Ocala? Lots of residents visit those offices.

No, lots of residents do /not/ visit their offices. That's the whole point of our arguments. The offices in question are Administrative offices. The data entry folks, the secretary, the overseers of the lower departments, meeting rooms for administrative meetings, the personnel department - none of that needs to be in a Developer-owned building.

And what's wrong with their offices being in Lady Lake? The entire Historic section of the Villages is in Lady Lake. What's wrong with Oxford? There are Village neighborhoods in Oxford. Brownwood Paddock Square is in Wildwood. Why not have the Administrative offices of the district government in a non-Developer-owned building in Wildwood?

Heck you could even have it in a building on Wedgewood, the back "driveway" of strip malls and office buildings off of 466. And hey that'd even be golf-cart accessible!

[tophcfa]

I don’t think anybody’s questioning how good we have it here. The problem might be that a quasi governmental agency which is controlled by the developer does not seem accountable to the residents that are paying most of the bills.

Exactly, well said.

[Bill14564]

No, lots of residents do /not/ visit their offices. That's the whole point of our arguments. The offices in question are Administrative offices. The data entry folks, the secretary, the overseers of the lower departments, meeting rooms for administrative meetings, the personnel department - none of that needs to be in a Developer-owned building.

And what's wrong with their offices being in Lady Lake? The entire Historic section of the Villages is in Lady Lake. What's wrong with Oxford? There are Village neighborhoods in Oxford. Brownwood Paddock Square is in Wildwood. Why not have the Administrative offices of the district government in a non-Developer-owned building in Wildwood?

Heck you could even have it in a building on Wedgewood, the back "driveway" of strip malls and office buildings off of 466. And hey that'd even be golf-cart accessible!

Strictly speaking yes, there are a lot of residents who do not visit District offices, but there are also a lot that do. Only the ones who need or desire to visit District offices will go there and a lot of residents will never have the need. But I have, three times now, and I wasn't the only one in the waiting area.

Have you seen an office-by-office list of which District services will reside in the consolidated office space? If not then I would suggest that you don't know that the services residents use (Customer Service, Community Standards, ID Cards, Utilities, etc) will not be there. I believe those services will be in the consolidated spaces which is why having them more centrally located and golf-cart accessible makes sense.

The District offices do not belong in Wildwood because Wildwood is not within the District.

Wedgewood is not more centrally located and I would be surprised if that property was not also owned by the Developer.

[Bilyclub]

A lot of TV is in Wildwood, including Brownwood and everything else South of 44 that is not in Lake County.

[Bill14564]

A lot of TV is in Wildwood, including Brownwood and everything else South of 44 that is not in Lake County.

But a lot of Wildwood is not in the Villages.

To the point of the post, the properties in the Villages that are in Wildwood but are not homesites are owned by the Developer. The property that is in Wildwood but not owned by the Developer is not in the Villages.