Maybe we should redefine who snowbirds are?

[charlie1]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

[margaretmattson]

Many of the group you are speaking about rent for 3 months EVERY YEAR. Most rerent the same property year after year. There is also a continuous flow who only rent for a few days, a week, or maybe a month. Most in this group never return. Flybynights? Is this a good name? I have no suggestion for those who rent for an extended 3 month period year after year.

When I lived in a neighborhood with many rental properties, we called those staying for a short time PITAs. But, I dont think they would appreciate that jab.

[charlie1]

Many of the group you are speaking about rent for 3 months EVERY YEAR. Most rerent the same property year after year. There is also a continuous group that only rent for a few days, a week, or maybe a month. Most in this group never return. Flybynights? Is this a good name? I have no suggestion for those who rent for an extended 3 month period year after year.

I agree, extended renters don't seem to be the problem!

[MplsPete]

...Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc...

Maybe the problem lies with the people who rent out their houses. Just saying.

[Tustin714]

Not to sound churlish, but since we have snowbirds, snowflakes and frogs, how about mosquitos for the ones you feel are the short-term pests?

[tophcfa]

Transients, and the shorter the time they stay, the worse they tend to be. We have good friends that rent long term (3 months or longer) who blend right in with the birds, flakes, and frogs. The worse are the AIRBnB’ers renting by the night. I don’t blame the short term renters, they are just seeking out the best deals possible for their $$. It’s the people that rent to them that I have a problem with. They are being bad neighbors, who show disrespect toward the residents of their neighborhood by creating a situation that is not in harmony with a 55+ retirement community. They are selfishly changing the character of their neighborhood, and not for the better, for their own personal gain. I have talked to young families with kids who take an annual vacation in Florida. They used to stay in resort type places on the coasts, but it has gotten too expensive for them. Instead, they rent short term through AIRBnB in the Villages and use our amenities, for a fraction of the cost.

[Velvet]

And the problem is more not when they use the amenities, but when they abuse them. Don’t know the rules or the ways and don’t care either. Generally, simply don’t care about people around them. I like the term “transients” or maybe “tourists”.

[Pairadocs]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

I totally agree. Hard to understand the attitude of many people who "seem" (?) to resent those who have another home outside the villages and spend time in both ? What makes them so upset ? If they moved here from another place, were they upset if their neighbors did, or did not (?) spend time at a second residence or even vacation cabin (like my parents and grandparents had when they wanted to get away from our home in South Florida). Of course I was a kid, but don't remember the people around us in Wisconsin resenting that we lived in Florida most of the time but owned a small home on a lake in Wisconsin ! I think the poster has a point, maybe it's resentment of those who rent for a weekend, week or month. Have no respect, it's just another resort to them... think, stamping out lighted cigarettes and cigars ON THE GREENS, digging HOLES in the fairway larger than a "divot" and do nothing to repair it, have NO idea who or what has right of way on multi-modal paths, and so on. Many planned communities have much stricter rules, ENFORCED RULES, about renting, length of stay, many prohibit AB&B type rental businesses, etc. etc. Not a cure, but sure does help !

[graciegirl]

I totally agree. Hard to understand the attitude of many people who "seem" (?) to resent those who have another home outside the villages and spend time in both ? What makes them so upset ? If they moved here from another place, were they upset if their neighbors did, or did not (?) spend time at a second residence or even vacation cabin (like my parents and grandparents had when they wanted to get away from our home in South Florida). Of course I was a kid, but don't remember the people around us in Wisconsin resenting that we lived in Florida most of the time but owned a small home on a lake in Wisconsin ! I think the poster has a point, maybe it's resentment of those who rent for a weekend, week or month. Have no respect, it's just another resort to them... think, stamping out lighted cigarettes and cigars ON THE GREENS, digging HOLES in the fairway larger than a "divot" and do nothing to repair it, have NO idea who or what has right of way on multi-modal paths, and so on. Many planned communities have much stricter rules, ENFORCED RULES, about renting, length of stay, many prohibit AB&B type rental businesses, etc. etc. Not a cure, but sure does help !

About the stricter rules........I was told that the developers very much didn't want stricter rules because all of us are grown up people and can afford to buy a home and we are not college students or kindergartners or other folks who don't know better. I generally think that the folks who are the ones who don't follow rules are generally a portion of short term renters. When I see trash along the cart paths and that occurs only in the high season or when the "kids" are visiting the grands, I feel personally insulted because this place maintains it's public grounds so well most of the time. I love that most of the folks who live here are of the age that takes great pride in neatness and cleanliness and enjoy keeping their homes and yards nicely. When I see a person park in a way that is not thoughtful I feel disappointed, because I have met very few people at the meetings at rec centers or talking to casually at the square who are not older and responsible and kind and thoughtful. It hurts me to see selfish behavior. I love this place.

[Michael G.]

With all the rules and regulations around tv, why can't that adopt rules and regulations for short term renters.
Like no rental less that 3 months.
Or for people coming in to check out The Villages, have certain area's set aside for short rentals.
They use to be known as motels.

Makes to much sense I guess

[MX rider]

Transients, and the shorter the time they stay, the worse they tend to be. We have good friends that rent long term (3 months or longer) who blend right in with the birds, flakes, and frogs. The worse are the AIRBnB’ers renting by the night. I don’t blame the short term renters, they are just seeking out the best deals possible for their $$. It’s the people that rent to them that I have a problem with. They are being bad neighbors, who show disrespect toward the residents of their neighborhood by creating a situation that is not in harmony with a 55+ retirement community. They are selfishly changing the character of their neighborhood, and not for the better, for their own personal gain. I have talked to young families with kids who take an annual vacation in Florida. They used to stay in resort type places on the coasts, but it has gotten too expensive for them. Instead, they rent short term through AIRBnB in the Villages and use our amenities, for a fraction of the cost.

Well said. Short term renters are a problem imo. Airbnb shouldn't be an option unless it's a 3 month rental. I would not want an Airbnb nextdoor to me.

[Velvet]

Yes, to me allowing Airbnb in a primarily residential community is unconscionable.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

Why not? STR’s can be just as harmful, or not as people who are renting LTR’s. If they are bad people wouldn’t you want them to be gone quickly?

[Velvet]

Why not? STR’s can be just as harmful, or not as people who are renting LTR’s. If they are bad people wouldn’t you want them to be gone quickly?

You are right, but people staying for a longer period are more likely to pick up on the ways of TV, especially if they are regularly returning individuals. They get invited to the street monthly socials etc, they have time to meet their neighbors. The fly by night groups and sometimes they come in herds to one home, rarely do.

[Bill14564]

With all the rules and regulations around tv, why can't that adopt rules and regulations for short term renters.
Like no rental less that 3 months.
Or for people coming in to check out The Villages, have certain area's set aside for short rentals.
They use to be known as motels.

Makes to much sense I guess

Either:
1. Florida law does not allow that; or,
2. It is not in the Developer's best interest to limit their customer base.

I'll bet a number of people reading these posts have been short-term renters in other places. I wonder if a number of those so vehemently against airbnbs in their backyards don't search out airbnbs when they travel.

[Bill14564]

Yes, to me allowing Airbnb in a primarily residential community is unconscionable.

airbnb in a residential community is the definition of airbnb.

[tophcfa]

Either:
1. Florida law does not allow that; or,
2. It is not in the Developer's best interest to limit their customer base.

Ding, ding, ding, bingo! #2 is the winning answer. The entity that controls most everything, doesn’t want to put up any possible obstacle for any potential buyer of new homes. At the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about.

[tophcfa]

I'll bet a number of people reading these posts have been short-term renters in other places. I wonder if a number of those so vehemently against airbnbs in their backyards don't search out airbnbs when they travel.

airbnb in a residential community is the definition of airbnb.

AIRBnB’s have their appropriate place. Short term rentals in urban communities, operating in an area that is within harmony of the existing community! That’s not the case in the Villages, which is supposed to be a 55+ single family senior residential community. Non renting homeowners should be able to reasonably expect their neighborhood won’t get invaded by transient short term renters with absolutely no vested interest in the long term well being of their neighborhood. No matter how one tries to justify it, it’s just not right.

[Velvet]

airbnb in a residential community is the definition of airbnb.

Residential means people who live in their homes (at their residences) most of the time. Airbnb is the opposite (transients) Airbnb and community residents are like oil and water and they mix about the same.

[Velvet]

AIRBnB’s have their appropriate place. Short term rentals in urban communities, operating in an area that is within harmony of the existing community! That’s not the case in the Villages, which is supposed to be a 55+ single family senior residential community. Non renting homeowners should be able to reasonably expect their neighborhood won’t get invaded by transient short term renters with absolutely no vested interest in the long term well being of their neighborhood. No matter how one tries to justify it, it’s just not right.

I think you will find the only people trying to justify Airbnbs are either the landlords who take full advantage of all the good things and goodwill the TV community has developed, for the landlord’s private profit, or the eager bargain-hunting transients.

[PersonOfInterest]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

In my opinion someone who feels their 'Home' is NOT the Villages is someone I would consider a Snow Bird. When someone is 'away' from home their main thoughts and concerns are still with their 'Home' and not with the place they are currently staying. There may even be some who live here full time but still do not concider it 'Home'. I think the difference we see in people residing in the Villages centers around this concept of where one considers 'Home'.

Somewhat like the term 'What hapens in Vegas, stays in Vegas' what people who don't consider the Villages as 'Home' do and how they 'act' in the Villages does not have the significance that it would if they were at 'Home'. They may act out of character feeling that it does not affect their life at 'Home'.

[TomPerry]

Ding, ding, ding, bingo! #2 is the winning answer. The entity that controls most everything, doesn’t want to put up any possible obstacle for any potential buyer of new homes. At the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about.
The developer’s best interest is selling homes to homeowners. Because after all the homes are sold in a CDD, the developer has on interest in the homes in the CDD. It is the homeowners, who don’t occupy the homes full time that rent out their home, best interest to rent out their property. Perhaps there should be a rule of no rentals under a one month period. That could be the “price of ownership”.

[FredMitchell]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.


How about "people", or "neighbors"? Maybe it would be nice to stop using labels that are just indicators of bias.

When we moved here, we had just a room for two weeks, then a home for April through October while we designed and built our permanent residence. We appreciated both owners. In the longer term residence, we were even allowed to use the mailbox.

We stayed here several times on our way to discovering that we wanted to retire here starting with a Life Style ™ visit.

During all of our visits, we never observed the unfriendliness suggested here. Have a happier new year!

[SoCalGal]

Transients, and the shorter the time they stay, the worse they tend to be. We have good friends who rent long term (3 months or longer) who blend right in with the birds, flakes, and frogs.

What is meant by "frogs?"

[Bilyclub]

What is meant by "frogs?"


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/what-does-frog-mean-42424/

[Normal]

Laws can be passed that require a landlord to be in the premises when renting just like a hotel with a clerk. One could rent out their home till they were blue in the face, but would have to live there while doing so in case of problems.

I agree the irresponsible short term renter/parasites should be eliminated.

G= Guest
N= New
A= And/in
T= Training
S= Status

[Two Bills]

AB&B is everywhere now, and just another fact of life.
In the small village where I live in UK, AB&B property numbers are growing each year.
When some of the larger properties can make up to $1000 a night, and smaller ones $300-$500 a night, it is big business.
Locals are priced out of the house market, as property investors snap up any reasonable property at crazy prices.

[wamley]

How about "Ninety day wonders"

[Bilyclub]

So what’s worse ? Very short term renters or residents who allow their criminal relatives to live in their house.

[AZ SLIM]

Not to sound churlish, but since we have snowbirds, snowflakes and frogs, how about mosquitos for the ones you feel are the short-term pests?

Before moving here, we were snowbirds out west, spending winters in Lake Havasu City AZ (LHC) and summers in the mountains north of Lake Tahoe. LHC was a snowbird haven for folks from every state with winter snow, plus Canada. The LHC chamber of commerce had a good PR staff and was supportive of the snowbirds. Unlike most of the comments here, they wanted to encourage snowbirds, so they decided to start a campaign for the community to call them "Winter Visitors" instead. They got the local radio stations and newspaper to use the term and after a couple of years it caught on and everyone was using it. I thought it was pandering and preferred the term snowbird, so we continued to call ourselves that.
This is not really what the OP is looking for with this post, I just thought I would throw it in because it's still dark outside and I don't have anything else to do right now.

[Bill14564]

Residential means people who live in their homes (at their residences) most of the time. Airbnb is the opposite (transients) Airbnb and community residents are like oil and water and they mix about the same.

Residential means areas with housing for people to live in as opposed to areas where items are manufactured or sold. Airbnbs are, by definition, residential properties where the owner allows others to stay in all or part of the property for a short period of time.

[Rocksnap]

Of course we all could voice our displeasure at what ever the term for short term rentals at CCD meetings. Strength in numbers, to get this changed. It will take some time, but if we organize, it will happen.

[Bill14564]

I think you will find the only people trying to justify Airbnbs are either the landlords who take full advantage of all the good things and goodwill the TV community has developed, for the landlord’s private profit, or the eager bargain-hunting transients.

Or those with libertarian leanings who believe there are already enough laws, regulations, rules, and restrictions regarding what they can do with their own lives and property.

If I am breaking some restriction, rule, regulation, or law then contact the appropriate authority.

If I am simply offending someone's sensitive sensibilities then they might consider keeping their nose out of my business.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

We refer to part timers as Seasonal Residents. No one ever refers to them as “those darn seasonal residents!”😂

[airstreamingypsy]

What is meant by "frogs?"

It means they are here til they croak.

[airstreamingypsy]

How about we stop labeling people, and worry about ourselves. It's Florida, people up north come here in the winter for the weather, so it gets crowded. Instead of incessant whining about it, I suggest you learn to deal with it. It's a fact, it's not going away. Spend the time you have left enjoying life, not complaining.

[daca55]

The people who frustrate me are the people who buy these places and rent them as Airbnbs. They are ones who are tearing the fabric of the Villages for their own personal gain. I use to know everyone in my neighborhood when I bought my house 14 years ago now those people have either passed or moved and the new owners are renting these units. The neighborhood has changed so much. This is ruining the Villages concept.

[jneibert]

Let's call them Winter Friends.

[jimmy o]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!
How about CooCoo Birds?

[PennyAnn]

I have one comment. Why do we need to label anyone???

[Regorp]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

People who rent short term are what I refer to as "Invaders". Most seem ok with bending the rules to suit their needs. Renting should be by the month and to over 55 only, since we are a over 55 community. TV is a for retirement not vacation.

[Normal]

I have one comment. Why do we need to label anyone???

I get your point but labels are important so that large groups of things can be categorized for a variety of needs and purposes into smaller groups. It’s a survival technique used since the beginning of mankind. It’s where all vocabulary came from and is used for communication and pinpointing needs etc.

[Nancy@Pinellas]

They’re called snowflakes.

[KathyandBob@TV]

As someone who has used AB&B and **** - the ‘renters’ are not rated which I believe goes to the ‘landlord pocket’ statement you mentioned.
When we had rental property - we would ask our neighbors about the renters. If there were problems, we put them on our ‘naughty’ list.

I guess you are a responsible landlord or a responsible renter —- or you are not.

[rsetterlund]

With all the rules and regulations around tv, why can't that adopt rules and regulations for short term renters.
Like no rental less that 3 months.
Or for people coming in to check out The Villages, have certain area's set aside for short rentals.
They use to be known as motels.

Makes to much sense I guess

The Villages already has a program for those that want to check the place out. It is called a LifeStyle visit, it offers more than just renting an AirBnB for a weekend.

[ThirdOfFive]

How about we stop labeling people, and worry about ourselves. It's Florida, people up north come here in the winter for the weather, so it gets crowded. Instead of incessant whining about it, I suggest you learn to deal with it. It's a fact, it's not going away. Spend the time you have left enjoying life, not complaining.
Easily the most sensible post so far in this thread.

People should realize that whoever is IN a house, the OWNER of that house still pays utilities, amenity fee, etc. That is why "overcrowding" is an illogical concept. As TV approaches 100% occupancy it will seem a lot more crowded, but the number of people here can never exceed 100%. In fact I doubt that even in high 'bird season, the total occupancy in TV is likely never over 95%.

Another thing: in my opinion the short-termers here (renters for less than 3 months, AirB&B'ers, etc.) are here on vacation and are probably a lot less likely to be penny-pinchers, therefore a lot MORE likely to spend money in the community than are the permanent residents, thus helping area businesses.

In other words, that glass is a lot more than half full. Sure, it can be annoying at times, such as when you see a teen skateboarding on an MMP or a Harley parked in front of an AirB&B, but those are the exceptions. The RULE is that The Villages, despite those minor annoying quirks, is still one heck of a good place to live.

[JMintzer]

How about we stop labeling people, and worry about ourselves. It's Florida, people up north come here in the winter for the weather, so it gets crowded. Instead of incessant whining about it, I suggest you learn to deal with it. It's a fact, it's not going away. Spend the time you have left enjoying life, not complaining.

Stop being logical. It has no place on ToTV...

[Villagesgal]

You can talk about it as long as you want, but nothing will change. So many of you would be the first to complain if any new restrictive rules were forced on you and your property. Follow the rules on your deed restrictions. You might as well complain that the wind blows to strong. Nothing will change. Live with it or move to another neighborhood or development with more restrictions. No place is perfect, but the Villages is pretty close.

[GoldenBoy]

Easily the most sensible post so far in this thread.

People should realize that whoever is IN a house, the OWNER of that house still pays utilities, amenity fee, etc. That is why "overcrowding" is an illogical concept. As TV approaches 100% occupancy it will seem a lot more crowded, but the number of people here can never exceed 100%. In fact I doubt that even in high 'bird season, the total occupancy in TV is likely never over 95%.

Another thing: in my opinion the short-termers here (renters for less than 3 months, AirB&B'ers, etc.) are here on vacation and are probably a lot less likely to be penny-pinchers, therefore a lot MORE likely to spend money in the community than are the permanent residents, thus helping area businesses.

In other words, that glass is a lot more than half full. Sure, it can be annoying at times, such as when you see a teen skateboarding on an MMP or a Harley parked in front of an AirB&B, but those are the exceptions. The RULE is that The Villages, despite those minor annoying quirks, is still one heck of a good place to live.

100% Occupancy can only occur after the LAST house is built. Do you actually see that happening while there is a 2,000 sq foot of property available for sale within 20 miles of TV? Ask anyone who has been a FT resident for 10 years or more.

[roguesearcher]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

Alley Cats

[sowilts]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!
We are Hybrids. Go to our home in Annapolis, visit Grandchildren in Hawaii, Geogia, NYC, Poconoes. Went to NYC, Poconos, Hawaii, back to Florida, in December; currently in Annapolis, driving back to The Villages 1 Jan. So far just flying back to MD, doctors appointment and flying back next day to The Villages. Grateful we can go when we want and enjoy our retirement.

[Tustin714]

The Villages already has a program for those that want to check the place out. It is called a LifeStyle visit, it offers more than just renting an AirBnB for a weekend.

Here's where I diverge -- we did a Lifestyle visit in October 2022 near Brownwood, and then rented for a month in October 2023 near SeaBreeze rec center, to see if we truly would buy. If not for the month rental, I don't think we would have purchased this year (we are part-timers but don't rent out the house). So a longer rental resulted in a sale.

[thelegges]

Snowbird is just that, leave the cold for the warm, snowbirds don’t take a break for 7 days, that called vacation. Do I rent ABnB not a chance, I just go to one our our vaca sites or kids beach homes

[Velvet]

They’re called snowflakes.

If they are owners and live in the house themselves when they are here. Not landlords running a business.

[Velvet]

You can talk about it as long as you want, but nothing will change. So many of you would be the first to complain if any new restrictive rules were forced on you and your property. Follow the rules on your deed restrictions. You might as well complain that the wind blows to strong. Nothing will change. Live with it or move to another neighborhood or development with more restrictions. No place is perfect, but the Villages is pretty close.

Talk about a defeatist attitude. How many in TV have lived all their lives “just taking it”? In my deed restrictions there is no clause about STRs like Airbnbs. In my district we have already changed the anonymous complaint clause.

[opinionist]

What should we call people who are oblivious to the rules?
How about Obliviates? (I must credit Bill O'Reilly for that term)

[petela]

we were told that they were called CLOGGERS .. thay clog up the foodies and parking lots and DRs offices etc

[jimjamuser]

Maybe the problem lies with the people who rent out their houses. Just saying.
The whole US is becoming a land of landlords and tenants. Or haves and have-NOTS with no large middle class in between. How will that affect society in the coming year? Is the crime rate greater in rental neighborhoods, in general? If the American dream was founded on home ownership, what is the NEW dream that replaces it? How bad will public schools become in the rental areas?

[BrianL99]

Every time the issue of STR's and rentals comes up, folks seem to miss what's should be obvious to every business person ... 100% occupancy is and should be the Developer's goal.

Folks seem to think the Developer makes all his money selling homes, nothing could be further from the truth.

The Developer owns almost every square foot of Commercial Property, in and around The Villages. Much of which has been depreciated down to zero, so the Developer will likely never sell any of it.

Population drives shopping, spending and therefore, commercial rents.

The advent of platforms like AirBnB, were a godsend for the Developer. Renters spend more money than owners or residents ... higher commercial rental rates.

Suggesting the Developer/District put restrictions on the rental of homes, is tilting at windmills.

[Two Bills]

The whole US is becoming a land of landlords and tenants. Or haves and have-NOTS with no large middle class in between. How will that affect society in the coming year? Is the crime rate greater in rental neighborhoods, in general? If the American dream was founded on home ownership, what is the NEW dream that replaces it? How bad will public schools become in the rental areas?

You seem to be stuck in the era of non mobility, when generations stayed within spitting distance of each other in small towns, from birth to death.
Affluence, ease of travel makes the new world so much smaller.
People on the move for jobs, pleasure, whatever, need short term places to stay.
Hence, proliferation of rental properties.
I think it's great, and opens up a world of opportunity our parents and grandparents could never have dreamed of,
As a kid, I never dreamt I would one day see all the places I saw in my school geography books, movies etc. in real time.
Take advantage of the changing times, and stop worrying about thing you have absolutly no control over.

[thelegges]

What should we call people who are oblivious to the rules?
How about Obliviates? (I must credit Bill O'Reilly for that term)

Are you referring to those who are full time, and choose not follow rules, because they are special.

Or those who are new or vacationing and don’t know the rules

[Velvet]

Are you referring to those who are full time, and choose not follow rules, because they are special.

Or those who are new or vacationing and don’t know the rules

You are right, for the most part it is the behavior that is the problem. The people who stay here for a longer time are exposed to the basic good will of most Villagers and it takes a pretty hardened individual not to be eventually influenced by it. The transients are not here long enough for that to happen.

[Velvet]

Residential means areas with housing for people to live in as opposed to areas where items are manufactured or sold. Airbnbs are, by definition, residential properties where the owner allows others to stay in all or part of the property for a short period of time.

You are using the incorrect terms when referring to various types of residences. Hotels and Airbnbs are commercial properties when they are rented out. They generate income therefore, they are businesses. Residences are homes which are not commercial in nature. I don’t know of any Airbnbs that don’t charge any money for various people to stay at them, do you?

[Bill14564]

You are using the incorrect terms when referring to various types of residences. Hotels and Airbnbs are commercial properties when they are rented out. They generate income therefore, they are businesses. Residences are homes which are not commercial in nature. I don’t know of any Airbnbs that don’t charge any money for various people to stay at them, do you?

Don’t take my word for it, look at the Florida statutes. Airbnbs are not hotels and are not commercial properties.

[BrianL99]

You are using the incorrect terms when referring to various types of residences. Hotels and Airbnbs are commercial properties when they are rented out. They generate income therefore, they are businesses. Residences are homes which are not commercial in nature. I don’t know of any Airbnbs that don’t charge any money for various people to stay at them, do you?

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.

Hotels are "businesses". Business is conducted within the 4 walls of the building.

Short Term Rental Units ("AirBnB" is a platform, it is not a housing unit), in most cases, are only used for 'residential use" ... people live in them for a day, a week or a month.

The "business" is the conducting of business. Dealing with customers, making payments, doing bookwork, etc.. Typically, that is NOT conducted in the housing unit that is rented, it is conducted elsewhere.

The "use" of the structure (home) continues to be 'residential'.

Most every court in the USA has agreed with that interpretation, which is why courts all over the USA have ruled in favor of allowing Short Term Rentals.

[Velvet]

Just curious, so how does the IRS define the income?

[BrianL99]

Just curious, so how does the IRS define the income?

You might want to ask your CPA, but in my experience, "rental income" is not "business income", unless you are providing "services".

Rental of personal property is business income under most circumstances ... rental of real estate is not, unless you're determined to be in the real estate business in a meaningful and personal way and make a profit from it.

A CPA could give you a better answer.

[tophcfa]

You are using the incorrect terms when referring to various types of residences. Hotels and Airbnbs are commercial properties when they are rented out. They generate income therefore, they are businesses. Residences are homes which are not commercial in nature. I don’t know of any Airbnbs that don’t charge any money for various people to stay at them, do you?

Don’t take my word for it, look at the Florida statutes. Airbnbs are not hotels and are not commercial properties.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.

Hotels are "businesses". Business is conducted within the 4 walls of the building.

Short Term Rental Units ("AirBnB" is a platform, it is not a housing unit), in most cases, are only used for 'residential use" ... people live in them for a day, a week or a month.

The "business" is the conducting of business. Dealing with customers, making payments, doing bookwork, etc.. Typically, that is NOT conducted in the housing unit that is rented, it is conducted elsewhere.

The "use" of the structure (home) continues to be 'residential'.

Most every court in the USA has agreed with that interpretation, which is why courts all over the USA have ruled in favor of allowing Short Term Rentals.

Just curious, so how does the IRS define the income?

The reality is that the subject at hand is a grey area. Unfortunately, laws defining a rental property business are outdated and were written when AIRBnB’s didn’t exist. The laws never contemplated owners of residential properties advertising through an app on the internet to rent rooms in their homes by the night to transient tenants. In the world I have lived in for a long time, when a party charges an unrelated third party a fee to sleep in a bed with a roof over their head, they are running a business. And the IRS agrees with that opinion. Rental income from AIRBnB’s is considered taxable income. The deed restrictions in the district we live in clearly state two things. The homes are limited to single family residential usage, and businesses aren’t allowed be run out of the homes. In my opinion, homeowners renting long term to a single family, who are not concurrently living in the home, are definitely not violating those restrictions. On the other hand, homeowners who rent out rooms by the day to unrelated third parties, are definitely violating both deed restrictions.

The reality is that at the end of the day, deed restrictions are completely worthless unless they are enforced. The deed restrictions in question fall under the definition on internal deed restrictions, which are enforced at the discretion of the developer. The other deed restrictions, which are considered external, are required to be enforced by the CDD’s. So a resident can put a little white cross in their garden, which won’t disrupt the quality of life in the neighborhood, but will result in daily fines because it’s an external restriction. But if a different neighbor is running a turnstile daily rental out of their home, that totally disrespects and distrusts the neighborhood, they are good to go because the developer has chosen to look the other way.

Clearly, something in this equation simply doesn’t add up.

[Bill14564]

The reality is that the subject at hand is a grey area. Unfortunately, laws defining a rental property business are outdated and were written when AIRBnB’s didn’t exist. The laws never contemplated owners of residential properties advertising through an app on the internet to rent rooms in their homes by the night to transient tenants. In the world I have lived in for a long time, when a party charges an unrelated third party a fee to sleep in a bed with a roof over their head, they are running a business. And the IRS agrees with that opinion. Rental income from AIRBnB’s is considered taxable income. The deed restrictions in the district we live in clearly state two things. The homes are limited to single family residential usage, and businesses aren’t allowed be run out of the homes. In my opinion, homeowners renting long term to a single family, who are not concurrently living in the home, are definitely not violating those restrictions. On the other hand, homeowners who rent out rooms by the day to unrelated third parties, are definitely violating both deed restrictions.

The reality is that at the end of the day, deed restrictions are completely worthless unless they are enforced. The deed restrictions in question fall under the definition on internal deed restrictions, which are enforced at the discretion of the developer. The other deed restrictions, which are considered external, are required to be enforced by the CDD’s. So a resident can put a little white cross in their garden, which won’t disrupt the quality of life in the neighborhood, but will result in daily fines because it’s an external restriction. But if a different neighbor is running a turnstile daily rental out of their home, that totally disrespects and distrusts the neighborhood, they are good to go because the developer has chosen to look the other way.

Clearly, something in this equation simply doesn’t add up.

Go read them again, and don't stop in the middle of the sentence, read it to the end.

Like it or not, in most of the Villages short term rentals are not prohibited.

If you feel differently, exercise your rights (responsibility, actually) under the enforcement clause of the deed restrictions you signed and take the offenders to court. If you fail to do that, if you fail to perform your responsibility under that clause, are you not violating the restrictions yourself?

[tophcfa]

Go read them again, and don't stop in the middle of the sentence, read it to the end.

Like it or not, in most of the Villages short term rentals are not prohibited.

If you feel differently, exercise your rights (responsibility, actually) under the enforcement clause of the deed restrictions you signed and take the offenders to court. If you fail to do that, if you fail to perform your responsibility under that clause, are you not violating the restrictions yourself?

Have read the restrictions multiple times for our district, and never stopped in the middle of the sentence. It’s clear as the day is long, short term rentals, in a home where the homeowner are concurrently living and renting out a room, is clearly against two deed restrictions. I even talked with a representative of the developer, who recluctantly acknowledged that fact. Unfortunately, it is an internal deed restriction, and the enforcement of the restrictions are at the discretion of the developer. The excuses for reasons to not enforce the restrictions were clearly coming from a prepared damage control punch list. At the end of the day, the whole situation completely discredits the whole deed restriction concept. Selectively enforcement, based on the enforcing parties clear and obvious financial interests, is an absolute joke.

[Bill14564]

Have read the restrictions multiple times for our district, and never stopped in the middle of the sentence. It’s clear as the day is long, short term rentals, in a home where the homeowner are concurrently living and renting out a room, is clearly against two deed restrictions. I even talked with a representative of the developer, who recluctantly acknowledged that fact. Unfortunately, it is an internal deed restriction, and the enforcement of the restrictions are at the discretion of the developer. The excuses for reasons to not enforce the restrictions were clearly coming from a prepared damage control punch list. At the end of the day, the whole situation completely discredits the whole deed restriction concept. Selectively enforcement, based on the enforcing parties clear and obvious financial interests, is an absolute joke.

You may have pointed to your particular deed restrictions in the past but I don't recall the specifics. My restrictions prohibit businesses that maintain inventory or require customer visits, neither of which apply to short term rentals. (I'm sure I've written this before)

As to the concurrently living and renting... I suspect your reading of the restrictions would prohibit me from having my non-family friends from MD visit and stay at my home. That is an unacceptable reading of the restrictions.

Perhaps yours is different but if I remember correctly, every version of deed restrictions I have read includes the words, "All Owners shall have the right and duty to prosecute in proceedings at law or in equity against any person or persons violating or attempting to violate any covenants, conditions or reservations, either to prevent him or them from so doing, or to recover damages or any property charges for such violation." It seems beyond time for you to perform your duty per the deed restrictions you agreed to and prosecute those who you believe are violating the restrictions. Otherwise, who is it that is ignoring the restrictions and exercising selective enforcement?

[BrianL99]

The reality is that the subject at hand is a grey area. Unfortunately, laws defining a rental property business are outdated and were written when AIRBnB’s didn’t exist. The laws never contemplated owners of residential properties advertising through an app on the internet to rent rooms in their homes by the night to transient tenants.


Technology almost always out-paces regulation. You need to look no further than the issue of gun control. Some folks claim the US Constitution gives us the right to own weapons, others will argue that framers of the Constitution didn't envision an AK47 in everyone's closet.

"Privacy laws" are the same. The framers didn't anticipate drones, nor the recording of text messages and phone calls.


when a party charges an unrelated third party a fee to sleep in a bed with a roof over their head, they are running a business. And the IRS agrees with that opinion. Rental income from AIRBnB’s is considered taxable income.


It's taxable income, but not "business income". Same as it's been since the IRS began. Look no further than the recent proposal to "tax unrealized capital gains". Income, but not necessarily "business income".


On the other hand, homeowners who rent out rooms by the day to unrelated third parties, are definitely violating both deed restrictions.


There was a time when I would agree, but the courts have consistently ruled to the contrary, to say nothing of the fact, it's been an accepted practice for generations. Most every person reading this post, has a relative who lived as a "boarder", when they first came to this country.

Just for the heck of it, define "unrelated 3rd parties". Can you not allow your step-parents to live in your house? Can you not rent a room to your old college roommate, you've been friends with for 50 years? What about your Army buddy who's down on his luck and saved your life in the Vietnam war ... he can't stay in your extra bedroom?


So a resident can put a little white cross in their garden, which won’t disrupt the quality of life in the neighborhood, but will result in daily fines because it’s an external restriction.


There are plenty of folks who are offended by the "white crosses", but don't feel their quality of life is harmed by rentals. We don't get to pick & choose which regulations we like or don't like.

The fact of the matter is, white crosses are unequivocally prohibited, STR's are not.

Just as an aside, I live directly across the street from a STR and another home, that is rented long-term, by a high-level TV employee who's under 55. The STR is far less disruptive in my opinion.

[DarrenandKathy]

People who rent short term are what I refer to as "Invaders". Most seem ok with bending the rules to suit their needs. Renting should be by the month and to over 55 only, since we are a over 55 community. TV is a for retirement not vacation.

I think a lot of isolated folks rather enjoy when their loved ones and family come down here for a short visit.
That’s where the largest volume of short term renters come from.

[jimkerr]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

Let me start out by saying I am a full time resident of the Villages and have been for 6 years. I love "part time residence" They pay their way just like us but only use the facilities part time. Sure they come during the winter but they could be here all year. I really enjoy the lack of crowds during the summer so this is all good to me! After the first year, I am sure they pretty much understand the way the Villages works and know how to navigate not only the roads, multimodel paths, and activities. They blend in easily having resident friends, etc.

Where I think the problem lies is the people that rent for a day, week, month, etc. This is not their home and they seem to treat the Villages that way. They do not understand, for the most part, the concept of the multimodel paths, the traffic circles, the activities, etc. In a way, I totally can't blame them because there is really no good way to learn without experience in the Villages or through some resident programs that are available.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

Why do people think we have to have a label for everyone/ everything?

[Nancy@Pinellas]

We have an AirBB on our street and have no problems. We’ve met some very nice people from all over the country.

[BTburton]

My question is, why does there have to be a “name” given to anyone visiting, renting or owning in the Villages? It’s also my understanding from reliable real estate agents that the Villages is the home of mostly residents from FL. So, possibly the complaints about the “so called” Snowbirds could very well be from FL itself! Also, attitudes and blaming could be coming from those who did the same thing in their home state? Just saying. You know, once a complainer, always a complainer? I love the Villages and I reserve the right to not mention my status. But, let’s not assume that anything that goes wrong in the Villages, is the result of actions of a “Snowbird”. Just doesn’t make sense IMO.

[CybrSage]

Maybe we should come up with a word for people that are the root of what full time Villages think is the problem during the busy season.

What would be a good name to give this group of people. I do not like that they are grouped with Snow Birds! What would your suggestion be to call this group!

Whining full time resident works, IMHO.
Perfectly explains the issue and it applies to everything that makes that group whine. Multi use name. :)

[CybrSage]

Have read the restrictions multiple times for our district, and never stopped in the middle of the sentence. It’s clear as the day is long, short term rentals, in a home where the homeowner are concurrently living and renting out a room, is clearly against two deed restrictions. I even talked with a representative of the developer, who recluctantly acknowledged that fact. Unfortunately, it is an internal deed restriction, and the enforcement of the restrictions are at the discretion of the developer. The excuses for reasons to not enforce the restrictions were clearly coming from a prepared damage control punch list. At the end of the day, the whole situation completely discredits the whole deed restriction concept. Selectively enforcement, based on the enforcing parties clear and obvious financial interests, is an absolute joke.

Quote the restrictions you call m are there. Not saying they are not, simply saying no one should believe a "cause I say so" statement.

[Mjellsworth]

One year ago my wife and I rented a house in TV using AirBnb for 12 nights from late December to early January in the Mid - North region (not far from Sumter Landing). We wanted a solid experience including golf, driving a golf cart around town, experiencing rec centers, pools, town squares, etc. We did not believe a Lifestyle visit duration or location (South) were optimal for us. We had a great experience and bought a house last April. We believe it is challenging to really appreciate TV without this type of experience, and without short term rental options it is challenging to have that kind of visit without staying at least a month.

[JanRoberts]

We could call everyone, "people" and treat them kindly no matter how vexed we get when they do something differently from us.

[aldeana]

I saw this somewhere some time ago:
Snowbirds -- They come here during the winter season and go back home.
Snowflakes -- They come and go all year long. They just stay for a little while.

FROGS -- Come here and stay till they CROAK

[ThirdOfFive]

We have an AirBB on our street and have no problems. We’ve met some very nice people from all over the country.
True that. We've had the same experiences, both as short-term renters in years past and these past four-plus years as fulltime homeowners in TV.

You go around with your nose out of joint because you BELIEVE that AirB&B tenants, short-term renters, etc. are causing an inordinate number of problems--odds are you'll find at least some. Especially if you look hard and long enough or an incident or two becomes magnified in your mind all out of proportion to what it is/was. Some people are funny that way.

People need to lighten up.

[tophcfa]

Quote the restrictions you call m are there. Not saying they are not, simply saying no one should believe a "cause I say so" statement.

See post #68. Note: The post references deed restrictions for the CDD my wife and I own a home in, which is the oldest CDD in the Villages. Based on posts from others living in newer CDDs, it appears all CDD deed restrictions and enforcement responsibilities are not the same. I make no representation about other CDD’s as I haven’t read them since they don’t apply to us.

[Scbang]

I recommend "SNOW BUGS" :-)

Cheers and Happy New Year everyone including Snow Bugs..

[JMintzer]

The whole US is becoming a land of landlords and tenants. Or haves and have-NOTS with no large middle class in between. How will that affect society in the coming year? Is the crime rate greater in rental neighborhoods, in general? If the American dream was founded on home ownership, what is the NEW dream that replaces it? How bad will public schools become in the rental areas?

Every freakin' thread...

[RUCdaze]

Back to the original question: I can think of a few things to call them, but I can't print them here.

[FloridaGuy66]

With all the rules and regulations around tv, why can't that adopt rules and regulations for short term renters.
Like no rental less that 3 months.


I'm used to be a landlord here before we moved here full time. The vast majority of snowbird renters are 2 months. Many would love to come for 3 months, but the going rate for Jan-March right now is around $5500-$6000/month. Many people don't have $18k to pay each year for 3 months here. I've yet to meet a 2-3 month repeat renter that was causing problems here.

I have relatives where their complex bans rentals under 30 days. I believe that is legal under Florida laws.