Hillsborough Trail Sinkhole

[Pugchief]

They have Hillsborough Trail closed just east of the Buena Vista gate due to a sinkhole. Since there aren't a lot of detours here, does anyone know what the typical time frame for repair on these is? There's going to be a lot of irritated seniors if that road stays closed for an extended period....

[Topspinmo]

They usually get right on street repair? It’s when it extends over to/under residential housing its snail pace on residential property.

[Bogie Shooter]

They have Hillsborough Trail closed just east of the Buena Vista gate due to a sinkhole. Since there aren't a lot of detours here, does anyone know what the typical time frame for repair on these is? There's going to be a lot of irritated seniors if that road stays closed for an extended period....

Is it a sink hole or sewer line collapse?

[biker1]

The detour is easy, no reason to get irritated.

They have Hillsborough Trail closed just east of the Buena Vista gate due to a sinkhole. Since there aren't a lot of detours here, does anyone know what the typical time frame for repair on these is? There's going to be a lot of irritated seniors if that road stays closed for an extended period....

[biker1]

There is a good probability of a sewer line issue that has caused a cavern below the road surface to open up. I drove by it yesterday before they closed the road down.

Is it a sink hole or sewer line collapse?

[Bogie Shooter]

There is a good probability of a sewer line issue that has caused a cavern below the road surface to open up. I drove by it yesterday before they closed the road down.

I agree, is obvious in the picture on the “rag” site.

[JoMar]

I agree, is obvious in the picture on the “rag” site.

You can see a larger patch on the road close to the depression. That patch was to correct a previous depression, maybe 7 or 8 years ago which was not a sinkhole so assume it's the same cause. It took them several attempts to get it fixed.

[Normal]

It sure looks like another sewer line due to construction error or inferior materials? What’s scary is the road was only constructed 12 years ago! One wonders how long they used the same materials, workers and techniques throughout our newer villages construction.

Wasn’t there a similar “sinkhole” this past summer in the even newer section of the villages in Monarch Grove? For sure we know the Villages are not new to the phenomenon.

If these were sinkholes, it wouldn’t surprise me either. There have been many confirmed sink holes inside the Villages. We lost the golf cart route where Meggison and Morse met for 2 weeks while they filled one. Homesites aren’t immune either, I really feel for the poor people who paid premium lot prices near Ashland that have since drained. Does anyone recall the 3 big holes that opened up inside the bubble in 2021? Villagers would do well to make sure their sinkhole insurance is up to date.

[Pugchief]

As of this morning it has been fixed.

They should have posted a sign on westbound Hillsborough east of Anna Maria, which is the last way out instead of making people drive all the way to BV and then turn around. Oh, well.

[bopat]

Probability and randomness. Low probability of a sinkhole at your house. High randomness makes it scary. It's like the lottery except different outcome.

[Happydaz]

There is a good probability of a sewer line issue that has caused a cavern below the road surface to open up. I drove by it yesterday before they closed the road down.

A cavern below a leaking sewer line may have dissolved some of the underground limestone and caused the surrounding soil to fall into the hole created by the dissolving limestone. Another name for that is a sinkhole.

[Bogie Shooter]

A cavern below a leaking sewer line may have dissolved some of the underground limestone and caused the surrounding soil to fall into the hole created by the dissolving limestone. Another name for that is a sinkhole.

Not really!
Other subterranean events can cause holes, depressions or subsidence of the land surface that may mimic sinkhole activity. These include subsurface expansive clay or organic layers that compress as water is removed; collapsed or broken sewer and drain pipes; broken septic tanks; improperly compacted soil after excavation work; and buried trash, logs and other debris. Often a depression is not verified by a licensed professional geologist or engineer to be a true sinkhole, and the cause of subsidence is not known. Such events are called subsidence incidents.

Sinkholes | Florida Department of Environmental Protection (https://floridadep.gov/fgs/sinkholes)

[Bill14564]

Just drove down Hillsborough to see the current situation.

- Road is completely open (though there is a barricade in the golf cart lane to avoid)
- The depression/sinkhole was NOT in the picture in the paper
- The repair is at a manhole at the intersection of Druid and Hillsborough
- The repair appears to be a section maybe 2' square with one corner against the manhole (not completely around the manhole)
- I didn't look closely to see if it was marked as sewer or drainage, not that it really matters

[biker1]

Whatever.

A cavern below a leaking sewer line may have dissolved some of the underground limestone and caused the surrounding soil to fall into the hole created by the dissolving limestone. Another name for that is a sinkhole.

[Happydaz]

Not really!
Other subterranean events can cause holes, depressions or subsidence of the land surface that may mimic sinkhole activity. These include subsurface expansive clay or organic layers that compress as water is removed; collapsed or broken sewer and drain pipes; broken septic tanks; improperly compacted soil after excavation work; and buried trash, logs and other debris. Often a depression is not verified by a licensed professional geologist or engineer to be a true sinkhole, and the cause of subsidence is not known. Such events are called subsidence incidents.

Sinkholes | Florida Department of Environmental Protection (https://floridadep.gov/fgs/sinkholes)

So what are you are saying is that leaking water pipes and sewer lines can’t cause sinkholes? You sound like an employee for the Villages. That is certainly OK as everyone has a right to be on a forum. Maybe I am wrong, but it is strange why someone would feel the need to say it isn’t a sinkhole. Isn’t this thread called “Hillsborough Trail Sinkhole?”

[Bogie Shooter]

So what are you are saying is that leaking water pipes and sewer lines can’t cause sinkholes? You sound like an employee for the Villages. That is certainly OK as everyone has a right to be on a forum. Maybe I am wrong, but it is strange why someone would feel the need to say it isn’t a sinkhole. Isn’t this thread called “Hillsborough Trail Sinkhole?”

Whatever…..

[Bill14564]

So what are you are saying is that leaking water pipes and sewer lines can’t cause sinkholes? You sound like an employee for the Villages. That is certainly OK as everyone has a right to be on a forum. Maybe I am wrong, but it is strange why someone would feel the need to say it isn’t a sinkhole. Isn’t this thread called “Hillsborough Trail Sinkhole?”

Agree. What I cannot figure out is the logic.

Arguing that it is not a sinkhole is probably strictly accurate. For some reason, the Villages does not want this area to be perceived as prone to sinkholes. Sinkholes have a specific, natural cause. These aren’t caused by that so these are not sinkholes. The Villages does not have a sinkhole problem.

Instead, the Villages has a problem with infrastructure which was apparently built to minimum standards and is now failing resulting in depressions, empty retention ponds, and costly repairs. These aren’t naturally occurring sinkholes they are man made problems.

And somehow making that distinction is supposed to be much better for marketing!

[Normal]

Agree. What I cannot figure out is the logic.

Arguing that it is not a sinkhole is probably strictly accurate. For some reason, the Villages does not want this area to be perceived as prone to sinkholes. Sinkholes have a specific, natural cause. These aren’t caused by that so these are not sinkholes. The Villages does not have a sinkhole problem.

Instead, the Villages has a problem with infrastructure which was apparently built to minimum standards and is now failing resulting in depressions, empty retention ponds, and costly repairs. These aren’t naturally occurring sinkholes they are man made problems.

And somehow making that distinction is supposed to be much better for marketing!

Exactly. Up north we had a sewer line break after 80 years of use. Apparently in sunny Florida they don’t last that long. 11 years for this line seems like a short time span to me.

[Bogie Shooter]

Not a Village employee……just a villager for 22 years listening to all these #$&@ sink hole experts calling depressions sinkholes.
Oh my god the sky is falling,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Bill14564]

Exactly. Up north we had a sewer line break after 80 years of use. Apparently in sunny Florida they don’t last that long. 11 years for this line seems like a short time span to me.

Still don’t know that this was a break. Might have been, or might not be a line break but a washout resulting from rain water running along the outside of the manhole structure. Maybe we’ll hear more at the next PWAC or CDD10 meeting.

[kidnerkim]

It was amazing how people do not know how to use GPS to go around or maps. Rudely driving through an unfamiliar area, driving to fast and yelling at the poor workers who are trying to keep them safe. I watched them drive right into a cul de sac clearly marked not an outlet and then looking at us like we were trying to trick them. Thankfully it is open again!

[mraines]

Is it a sink hole or sewer line collapse?

Probably pipe collapse. I have never seen so many so called "sinkholes".

[ridge]

It is a sewer line collapse not technically a sink hole. Already street is open. Not sure about the repair. May have been a quick fix with a further repair later.

[Bilyclub]

It was amazing how people do not know how to use GPS to go around or maps. Rudely driving through an unfamiliar area, driving to fast and yelling at the poor workers who are trying to keep them safe. I watched them drive right into a cul de sac clearly marked not an outlet and then looking at us like we were trying to trick them. Thankfully it is open again!


If you were just passing thru and not familiar with the area you would not know that you had to go back to Anna Maria and then Pinellas to head West. They should have put a sign up at Anna Maria to save people the hassle. Old people get confused and irritable when lost.

[jabacon6669]

Be careful what you call it. There's a sinkhole, which is caused by a limestone formation under the ground and the state would send a team to test for such. A catastrophic land collapse has the similar effect. If on your property CLC is covered by your insurance, a sinkhole is not unless you have sinkhole coverage. Now it appears this hole was neither. It could be caused by a sewer pipe failure, a water pipe failure, or in this case from what I'm reading is a water drainage failure. So more than likely it's one of these, but very unlikely it's a sinkhole.

[Normal]

Be careful what you call it. There's a sinkhole, which is caused by a limestone formation under the ground and the state would send a team to test for such. A catastrophic land collapse has the similar effect. If on your property CLC is covered by your insurance, a sinkhole is not unless you have sinkhole coverage. Now it appears this hole was neither. It could be caused by a sewer pipe failure, a water pipe failure, or in this case from what I'm reading is a water drainage failure. So more than likely it's one of these, but very unlikely it's a sinkhole.

We just had major sewage line repairs in St. Catherine. It took about 4 weeks or so. I’m not complaining, but I think the roads and lines had only been in a max of 5 years.

Could it be the materials, or labor, or engineering? Maybe just poor planning?

[Bill14564]

Probably pipe collapse. I have never seen so many so called "sinkholes".

I have not seen so many either... I also have never lived in Florida before. I bet there's a correlation.

[Normal]

I have not seen so many either... I also have never lived in Florida before. I bet there's a correlation.

Is there the possibility soil type would provide reinforcement around pipes? My thought is up north there is usually clay, rock and various dirts to blanket in-ground infrastructure. When something is put in the ground down here there is just sand? This could leave underground infrastructure less protected from ground level impacts and pressures?

[Bogie Shooter]

Probably pipe collapse. I have never seen so many so called "sinkholes".

I “probably” could have guessed.

[Pugchief]

Not a Village employee……just a villager for 22 years listening to all these #$&@ sink hole experts calling depressions sinkholes.
Oh my god the sky is falling,,,,,,,,,,,,

My bad as the OP.

Regardless of what you call it, all I wanted to know was how long Hillsborough was going to be closed at BV. And I never got an answer, LOL.

[Pugchief]

If you were just passing thru and not familiar with the area you would not know that you had to go back to Anna Maria and then Pinellas to head West. They should have put a sign up at Anna Maria to save people the hassle.

I'm very familiar with the area, and they should have put the sign up regardless. If you were coming from the east, there was no way to know the BV gate was closed and it was aggravating to find out at the gate, have to turn around, and backtrack. Plus if there was a sign, when it was removed it would be an indication that the road was reopened to traffic.

In my next life, I'm going to be an efficiency consultant.