Santa Ana winds are caused by climate change

[sounding]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

Santa Ana winds aren't "caused by" climate change. This weather phenomena has been part of the ecosystem for at least the last 5000 years.

What's "caused by" climate change is the increased range, severity, and frequency. But this wind pattern is not new, and dates back to the Bronze Age.

[Topspinmo]

I agree the wind got up do to upper level pressure changes which as we know is climate? So when high pressure move out and low pressure move in along jet steam the climate changing.:icon_wink:

[sounding]

Santa Ana winds aren't "caused by" climate change. This weather phenomena has been part of the ecosystem for at least the last 5000 years.

What's "caused by" climate change is the increased range, severity, and frequency. But this wind pattern is not new, and dates back to the Bronze Age.

Correct, these winds have been around forever and are global in nature. In the Santa Ana case, the more the "cold" air piles up east of the Rockies, the more likely these winds will occur. In other words, these winds are more likely during periods of global cooling than global warming.

[Taltarzac725]

Correct, these winds have been around forever and are global in nature. In the Santa Ana case, the more the "cold" air piles up east of the Rockies, the more likely these winds will occur. In other words, these winds are more likely during periods of global cooling than global warming.

I wish a real climate expert would come on here.

[Stu from NYC]

I wish a real climate expert would come on here.

You rang:posting:

[fdpaq0580]

Attempt to drum up attendance for a "let me tell you" meeting. Have fun.

[ElDiabloJoe]

You rang:posting:
Not the one I am expecting.

[fdpaq0580]

Not the one I am expecting.

This is TOTV. We all know everything about everything, even if we don't agree. 😉

[shut the front door]

Correct, these winds have been around forever and are global in nature. In the Santa Ana case, the more the "cold" air piles up east of the Rockies, the more likely these winds will occur. In other words, these winds are more likely during periods of global cooling than global warming.

Bingo. Way to silence the sky is falling crowd.

[golfing eagles]

I wish a real climate expert would come on here.

You mean another one? We already have 435,000 of them

[sounding]

Attempt to drum up attendance for a "let me tell you" meeting. Have fun.

It was fun. Today's audience at the Civil Discourse Club was happy to hear that climate was not the cause of the LA fires, but has everything to do with improving global weather -- including decreasing hurricanes and tornadoes. They were especially interested in hearing about the 2023/24 global warming spike - which is temporary. As a result, more people have signed up for the Weather Club's monthly announcements listing.

[Boomer]

I often have found the Civil Discourse Club to be nearing SRO and people have to be turned away because of room capacity. I attended what I think might have been their very first meeting, seems like it was in 2007, not sure. Anyway, we were renting at that time and the clubs were all listed in the paper.

I did not have my glasses on when I read about the (brand new at the time) Civil Discourse Club and, at first, I thought it said the Civil Disobedience Club. I have been interested in some of their speakers and sometimes not interested. But why mock the meetings of those who might, on occasion, think differently. (Rhetorical Question, thus no question mark at the end.)

Btw, I have an old friend whose house in Malibu is now a pile of ashes and another person I know has had to evacuate from a different one of those fires.

I am not an expert on climate, but I know hogwash when I see it. Many of those houses are built of wood -- and there you have plenty of kindling. The force of those winds is creating a hellscape. That old routine about vegetation is a monumental exaggeration, spreading, not unlike wildfire, just because narrowly informed people have decided to judge an entire state of lives -- and lives lost.

The bravery of those firefighters is amazing. There are no words to express my great respect for what they are doing for others. In my opinion, firefighters are the true definition of the word awesome. (And firefighters go into action without stopping to ask if the victims of the fire think like them.)

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

But what I do understand is the very clear picture I am getting from the words of those who are coming through as gloating. Are people actually dancing on the ashes of other people's lives just because they do not like the State of California. What have we come to..........

Boomer

[Altavia]

Amen Boomer...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Correct, these winds have been around forever and are global in nature. In the Santa Ana case, the more the "cold" air piles up east of the Rockies, the more likely these winds will occur. In other words, these winds are more likely during periods of global cooling than global warming.

Both global cooling and global warming are "climate change." When the climate changes - no matter what that change is, no matter what causes it, no matter how severe or mild - it is - by definition - climate change.

People love weaponizing and politicizing terms. Climate change is an actual thing. It happens, whether you want to accept it or not. Your opinion about climate change won't make it stop happening. It will happen whether people cause OR contribute to it, or not. People contribute to it, and we COULD reduce our contribution if we wanted to. But the climate will continue to change. Faster than if we hadn't contributed to it, but nonetheless, change.

[fdpaq0580]

It was fun. Today's audience at the Civil Discourse Club was happy to hear that climate was not the cause of the LA fires, but has everything to do with improving global weather -- including decreasing hurricanes and tornadoes. They were especially interested in hearing about the 2023/24 global warming spike - which is temporary. As a result, more people have signed up for the Weather Club's monthly announcements listing.

Wonderful! Many of us older models are running out of time to have fun. Enjoy.
As for your mention of the 23/24 global warming spike being temporary. Everything is temporary. Nothing, absolutely nothing, lasts forever.

[fdpaq0580]

Bingo. Way to silence the sky is falling crowd.

No. They just has better things to do than play on totv at this time. They will be back when they are in the mood to pluck some ostrich tail feathers.

And, FYI, they/we never said the sky was falling. That is vicious mis-characterization of well meaning folks that, with the best scientific knowledge available acknowledge that climate change is affected by human activity. That's all. The "sky" is not falling.

[fdpaq0580]

Both global cooling and global warming are "climate change." When the climate changes - no matter what that change is, no matter what causes it, no matter how severe or mild - it is - by definition - climate change.

People love weaponizing and politicizing terms. Climate change is an actual thing. It happens, whether you want to accept it or not. Your opinion about climate change won't make it stop happening. It will happen whether people cause OR contribute to it, or not. People contribute to it, and we COULD reduce our contribution if we wanted to. But the climate will continue to change. Faster than if we hadn't contributed to it, but nonetheless, change.

Excellent! I approve this message!

[fdpaq0580]

Correct, these winds have been around forever and are global in nature. In the Santa Ana case, the more the "cold" air piles up east of the Rockies, the more likely these winds will occur. In other words, these winds are more likely during periods of global cooling than global warming.

So the title of this thread, "Santa Ana winds [B]are caused by climate change/B] conveyed a message that was not exactly accurate?

[sounding]

Both global cooling and global warming are "climate change." When the climate changes - no matter what that change is, no matter what causes it, no matter how severe or mild - it is - by definition - climate change.

People love weaponizing and politicizing terms. Climate change is an actual thing. It happens, whether you want to accept it or not. Your opinion about climate change won't make it stop happening. It will happen whether people cause OR contribute to it, or not. People contribute to it, and we COULD reduce our contribution if we wanted to. But the climate will continue to change. Faster than if we hadn't contributed to it, but nonetheless, change.

"Faster" is a subjective opinion. Do you have any supporting data -- like how much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth in 2023 for example?

[rsmurano]

Such garbage, the Santa Ana winds are not caused by climate change and Santa Ana winds have nothing to do with Santa Ana, California. Our house burned down along with 220 others in Santa Barbara due to Santa Ana winds almost 50 years ago. Back then, the fools were calling it global warming, or the hole in the ozone layer, or some other catchy phrase they tried to pull over us.
People (California leadership, homeowners) have to take responsibility for these fires, for example, the idiotic leadership has to implement standards in building construction, like no cedar roofs, no tall trees close to the house and creating fire breaks and implementing forest management.
But, all the California leadership can do is blame everyone else. These fires are right next to the ocean, salt water that would extinguish the flames easier, and nothing is happening. We were in another fire in another state and we had 50 helicopters with buckets dipping their buckets in our lake and dumping it on the fires. Not 1 helicopter was issued to do that in these California fires.
Maui, same thing happened. Ignorant leadership.

[Susan1717]

Here is a great read on the CA environment and errors made by environmentalists.

Environmentalists Destroyed California’s Forests | California Policy Center (https://californiapolicycenter.org/environmentalists-destroyed-californias-forests/)

[ithos]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

Don't forget about the record-breaking heat waves on land and in the ocean, drenching rains, severe floods, years-long droughts, extreme wildfires, and widespread flooding during hurricanes and the possibility of an alien invasion.

[Cuervo]

This might sound heartless, but we all understand this risk we take when we decide where we want to live. I've chosen to live here in Florida with the knowledge that I could find myself homeless one day due to a hurricane. The residents of California have to be aware they are living under a triple threat, Fire, Earthquakes, and Mudslides. Yet they have decided to live there anyway.

Now is climate change adding to the severity of the fires in California. Believer in climate change will say yes and deniers will say no. I can't give you an answer, but I do know in my lifetime the climate has been changing. Now I have two questions, is man responsible for the present change in the climate and even if he is not, is there something that we can do to reverse it. If not for us, for our grandchildren.

[PersonOfInterest]

Such garbage, the Santa Ana winds are not caused by climate change and Santa Ana winds have nothing to do with Santa Ana, California. Our house burned down along with 220 others in Santa Barbara due to Santa Ana winds almost 50 years ago. Back then, the fools were calling it global warming, or the hole in the ozone layer, or some other catchy phrase they tried to pull over us.
People (California leadership, homeowners) have to take responsibility for these fires, for example, the idiotic leadership has to implement standards in building construction, like no cedar roofs, no tall trees close to the house and creating fire breaks and implementing forest management.
But, all the California leadership can do is blame everyone else. These fires are right next to the ocean, salt water that would extinguish the flames easier, and nothing is happening. We were in another fire in another state and we had 50 helicopters with buckets dipping their buckets in our lake and dumping it on the fires. Not 1 helicopter was issued to do that in these California fires.
Maui, same thing happened. Ignorant leadership.

Maybe the Wind Gusts are keeping them from providing Air Support. They have used air support including super tankers in the past, but not during high winds.

[ithos]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

For contrary views based on credible science and data visit Watts Up With That? – The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change (https://wattsupwiththat.com/).

[Taltarzac725]

For contrary views based on credible science and data visit Watts Up With That? – The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change (https://wattsupwiththat.com/).

Looks very one-sided.

[golfing eagles]

No. They just has better things to do than play on totv at this time. They will be back when they are in the mood to pluck some ostrich tail feathers.

And, FYI, they/we never said the sky was falling. That is vicious mis-characterization of well meaning folks that, with the best scientific knowledge available acknowledge that climate change is affected by human activity. That's all. The "sky" is not falling.

Seemed like it was a perfect characterization to me

[defrey12]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

If ANYONE believes this, come on over…I’ve got a bridge for sale. THEY are really grasping at straws here. I watched my childhood home burn last week! I can tell you with CERTAINTY that the SA Winds existed in the sixties…as I’m sure they have for eons. Long before the idiots started screaming that we somehow caused it. Yes, the earth too has been warming for eons…LONG before the internal combustion engine. Proof that it’s not us.

[golfing eagles]

Don't forget about the record-breaking heat waves on land and in the ocean, drenching rains, severe floods, years-long droughts, extreme wildfires, and widespread flooding during hurricanes and the possibility of an alien invasion.

All of which has happened hundreds of times before human technology arrived. (with the exception of the alien invasion)

[golfing eagles]

This might sound heartless, but we all understand this risk we take when we decide where we want to live. I've chosen to live here in Florida with the knowledge that I could find myself homeless one day due to a hurricane. The residents of California have to be aware they are living under a triple threat, Fire, Earthquakes, and Mudslides. Yet they have decided to live there anyway.

Now is climate change adding to the severity of the fires in California. Believer in climate change will say yes and deniers will say no. I can't give you an answer, but I do know in my lifetime the climate has been changing. Now I have two questions, is man responsible for the present change in the climate and even if he is not, is there something that we can do to reverse it. If not for us, for our grandchildren.

I think you mean for your great great 2000x great grandchildren in 50 or 60,000 years

[golfing eagles]

Both global cooling and global warming are "climate change." When the climate changes - no matter what that change is, no matter what causes it, no matter how severe or mild - it is - by definition - climate change.

People love weaponizing and politicizing terms. Climate change is an actual thing. It happens, whether you want to accept it or not. Your opinion about climate change won't make it stop happening. It will happen whether people cause OR contribute to it, or not. People contribute to it, and we COULD reduce our contribution if we wanted to. But the climate will continue to change. Faster than if we hadn't contributed to it, but nonetheless, change.

All true, but I'll add best independent, non-political estimates are that human activity will simply delay the next ice age by about 5,000 years---and that is due to the rise of agriculture in Asia over the last 8,000 years and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST 200 YEARS OF BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

[ithos]

Looks very one-sided.

And the government websites aren't?
Basics of Climate Change | US EPA (https://www.epa.gov/climatechange-science/basics-climate-change)

Global warming is not settled science. Climate change has been around since the beginning of time. And when the proposed solution is to increase taxes and throttle our standard of living then it is wise to be exposed to scientific based arguments of both sides because it is extremely complex.

I originally believed they hype from Al Gore, but became more skeptical when many scientists in the climate field were challenging the theory. So I dug further and read about the UN climate change conferences and found out that the politicians and bureaucrats dominated the discourse and the many scientists who disagreed were completely ignored.

Science can be and has many times been corrupted by special interests especially when profits and political power can be obtained.

[Rocksnap]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

Note to self. Over 1/2 the country is smart enough to realize the climate IS ALWAYS CHANGING. And smart enough to realize man has no impact on this. To say anything otherwise, well, you missed a day in school.

[Rocksnap]

This is TOTV. We all know everything about everything, even if we don't agree. 😉
Well there’s some of us that do know, and some of us that missed that day in school.

[CybrSage]

No. They just has better things to do than play on totv at this time. They will be back when they are in the mood to pluck some ostrich tail feathers.

And, FYI, they/we never said the sky was falling. That is vicious mis-characterization of well meaning folks that, with the best scientific knowledge available acknowledge that climate change is affected by human activity. That's all. The "sky" is not falling.

When people say the economy must be severely damaged and people's quality of life destroyed due to unsupported AGW claims, they are saying the sky is falling.
The Gangrene New Deal is a knee jerk reaction to the sky falling...and an open power grab.
Seriously, we all know there are plenty of chicken littles. They can be spotted by how angry they get when asked what percentage of the warming is the expected natural increase we know is happening and what percentage is man made. No one is able to answer that question.
Oh, people KNOW man is causing heating but cannot say how much...not even a rounded estimate.
The reason why is simple, man's addition falls into the margin of error in the models.
We should stop pollution, it is bad, but humans are not the cause of global warming, nature is.
Warming is happening but man cannot change it without messing things up. That is the one thing we excel at.
Let the Milankovich Cycles keep playing their sing and in another hundred or so years we will be heading back down to ot the next ce age. For now, enjoy the increase in plant life the extra heat and CO2 brings us.

[CybrSage]

All true, but I'll add best independent, non-political estimates are that human activity will simply delay the next ice age by about 5,000 years---and that is due to the rise of agriculture in Asia over the last 8,000 years and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST 200 YEARS OF BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

What percentage of the temp increase is caused by man and what percentage is caused by the natural temp increase we know is happening?
Source the answer. Thanks!

[CybrSage]

So the title of this thread, "Santa Ana winds [B]are caused by climate change/B] conveyed a message that was not exactly accurate?

Yes, the title is a lie meant to stir the pot.

[CybrSage]

Now I have two questions, is man responsible for the present change in the climate and even if he is not, is there something that we can do to reverse it. If not for us, for our grandchildren.

Man is a very minor player.
It will reverse all by itself, as it has for the last 400,000 years at least, is another 100 years or so. We then begin the long trek into the next ice age.
The expected max temp, as predicted by the Milankovich Cycles (which are a well accepted scientific fact for many decades now), has yet to be reached.

[golfing eagles]

What percentage of the temp increase is caused by man and what percentage is caused by the natural temp increase we know is happening?
Source the answer. Thanks!

You do realize I agree with you, correct? But I did find this:

Mounting Evidence Suggests Early Agriculture Staved Off Global Cooling | UVA Today (https://news.virginia.edu/content/mounting-evidence-suggests-early-agriculture-staved-global-cooling#:~:text=Ancient%20agriculture%2C%20includi ng%20early%20rice%20farming%2C%20may%20have,the%20 next%20ice%20age%2C%20according%20to%20new%20resea rch.)

Also, from another source---"So how can all this help us understand future climate? One idea is that small increases in greenhouse gases due to the expansion of agriculture that started 8,000 years ago have in fact delayed the next ice age. "

[ithos]

Any field of academic study that blacklists and fires scientists that have contrary views is corrupted and can not be taken seriously.

How Academic ‘Blacklists’ Impede Serious Work On Climate Science (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/02/09/a-climate-blacklist-that-works-it-should-make-her-unhirable-in-academia/)

[Kelevision]

Note to self. Over 1/2 the country is smart enough to realize the climate IS ALWAYS CHANGING. And smart enough to realize man has no impact on this. To say anything otherwise, well, you missed a day in school.

And some of use are smart enough to understand there’s no way man has NOT contributed to climate change. I remember when they stopped making aerosol deodorants due to depletion of the ozone layer. Yes, the climate is always changing but also yes man has contributed to things getting more severe.

[Marmaduke]

Both global cooling and global warming are "climate change." When the climate changes - no matter what that change is, no matter what causes it, no matter how severe or mild - it is - by definition - climate change.

People love weaponizing and politicizing terms. Climate change is an actual thing. It happens, whether you want to accept it or not. Your opinion about climate change won't make it stop happening. It will happen whether people cause OR contribute to it, or not. People contribute to it, and we COULD reduce our contribution if we wanted to. But the climate will continue to change. Faster than if we hadn't contributed to it, but nonetheless, change.
Yeah, people love weaponizing terms and phrases, so let's Hope and Change and give them a good Shellacking!
JOY.
I agree with OBB that we don't allow words as weapons.

[golfing eagles]

And some of use are smart enough to understand there’s no way man has NOT contributed to climate change. I remember when they stopped making aerosol deodorants due to depletion of the ozone layer. Yes, the climate is always changing but also yes man has contributed to things getting more severe.

I believe that is an oxymoron.

[Topspinmo]

I wish a real climate expert would come on here.

I’m self proclaimed climate expert. I worked in all sorts climate. From -30F below zero to 116F degrees for over 55 years. During that time I had to pick up something heavier than pencil. I can tell when it cold IT’S COLD and when it’s HOT it’s HOT.

[Cuervo]

Man is a very minor player.
It will reverse all by itself, as it has for the last 400,000 years at least, is another 100 years or so. We then begin the long trek into the next ice age.
The expected max temp, as predicted by the Milankovich Cycles (which are a well accepted scientific fact for many decades now), has yet to be reached.

I think to sit on the sideline and do nothing if man has a chance to reverse the cycle of climate change would be a failure. In the past 50 years we've gone from land lines to cell phone, we've gone from earth bound to space. With the aid of A.I. there might be a solution of how to control the climate.

[Topspinmo]

And some of use are smart enough to understand there’s no way man has NOT contributed to climate change. I remember when they stopped making aerosol deodorants due to depletion of the ozone layer. Yes, the climate is always changing but also yes man has contributed to things getting more severe.


Man has contributed to extinction of about everything for greed. They bulldozed land to plant crops, they killed of animals for trophies, they killed their fellow humans for land and control. So why not kill off weather? No other animals can have profound effect of planet earth. Maybe population reduction would be better investment than trying to tilt earth axis?

[sounding]

Such garbage, the Santa Ana winds are not caused by climate change and Santa Ana winds have nothing to do with Santa Ana, California. Our house burned down along with 220 others in Santa Barbara due to Santa Ana winds almost 50 years ago. Back then, the fools were calling it global warming, or the hole in the ozone layer, or some other catchy phrase they tried to pull over us.
People (California leadership, homeowners) have to take responsibility for these fires, for example, the idiotic leadership has to implement standards in building construction, like no cedar roofs, no tall trees close to the house and creating fire breaks and implementing forest management.
But, all the California leadership can do is blame everyone else. These fires are right next to the ocean, salt water that would extinguish the flames easier, and nothing is happening. We were in another fire in another state and we had 50 helicopters with buckets dipping their buckets in our lake and dumping it on the fires. Not 1 helicopter was issued to do that in these California fires.
Maui, same thing happened. Ignorant leadership.

Bingo - excellent post. There will be another 5-minute "weather" overview of the LA fires on Jan 17 at 4 PM at Lake Miona -- prior to the "Sea Level Rise & Ocean Warming" talk for the Philosophy Club.

[Bwanajim]

"Climate" is always changing and it has forever. I remember in the 70s in high school the world was going to freeze over and it what is the coming "Ice Age"& it would be snowing in Florida. Then it started getting warmer & they started calling it something else. Then when it got cooler again they just started calling it "climate change" to cover all the bases.
For all these people on the left calling for electric vehicles and banning oil and gas, stoves and all the other crap. Every person in the United States could be dead and not admit one single Carbon footprint, but it would make no difference, unless China and India and places like that start reducing there's.

[maistocars]

aye yi yi.......

[lpkruege1]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

The Sky is Falling, The Sky Is Falling! Seriously, just follow the money.

[Taltarzac725]

You are 100% correct! Is the fault of Gavin Newsom and the mayor. He knocked down 3 dams to save a fish and took away some of their water reservoir system. They didn't clean the underbrush. They waited forever when they could've had planes, dropping water and fire retardant soon as it started. They could have called the National Guard out earlier. They could have monitored that area by just flying over every day.

That was up in Oregon and northern CA and looks to have no connection to the water system in Los Angeles.

Lots of bad information out there .

[SaucyJim]

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

You do know that there is no actual conscious entity named Mother Nature, right? Emotions cannot be attributed to euphemistic terms for the natural world.

[Danube]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

"Everything I don't like is caused by climate change" has fallen out of favor. Get with the times.

[sounding]

And some of use are smart enough to understand there’s no way man has NOT contributed to climate change. I remember when they stopped making aerosol deodorants due to depletion of the ozone layer. Yes, the climate is always changing but also yes man has contributed to things getting more severe.

Actually -- the "data" shows bad weather is getting less frequent and less severe. Attend the Weather Club to see the data and find out why global warming and increasing CO2 is preferred over global cooling and decreasing CO2.

[fdpaq0580]

"Faster" is a subjective opinion. Do you have any supporting data -- like how much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth in 2023 for example?

Same tired silly question. The data is there.
If you (humans) add fuel to a cars engine it will go faster. fact. How much faster depends on many factors, like make and model, quality of fuel, fuel mixture, load, resistance, etc. Rather than try to quiet the statement by focusing on one fluctuating element of the fuel mixture, why not engage in more constructive dialog about what might help slow the rate of warming? Global warming/climate change, once vehemently denied, is now openly accepted. One step to go is acknowledgement that human activities have played a part.

[coleprice]

That's Malarkey! Santana Winds in Southern California have been recorded for over 300 years at the same velocities and frequency as today . . . Of course it varies year by year but there is no trend of increase over time. I grew up on Southern California and lived there for over 60 years and can testify that Santana Winds have always been prevalent this time of year.

Data that has been "Produced" to the contrary, is "Selective", thus it is inaccurate.

[fdpaq0580]

Maybe the Wind Gusts are keeping them from providing Air Support. They have used air support including super tankers in the past, but not during high winds.

One water carrier was taken out by a civilian drone.

[ithos]

As urban areas have grown, the island effect has increased temperatures. Of course there has been no correction for this effect.

Urban Heat Island Effects Have Not Yet Been Removed from Official GHCN Warming Trends – Watts Up With That? (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/10/25/urban-heat-island-effects-have-not-yet-been-removed-from-official-ghcn-warming-trends/)

The greater a station’s population growth, the greater the observed warming trend. This is pretty convincing evidence that the raw GHCN data has substantial UHI effects impacting the computed trends (probably no surprise here). Note the UHI temperature trend averages 66% of the raw temperature trends.
The regression line fit to the data intercepting zero shows that those stations with no population growth have, on average, no warming trend.

[ElDiabloJoe]

The Sky is Falling, The Sky Is Falling! Seriously, just follow the money.

^ Concur. Exactly this. I remember in the 1980's when the hyperventilating sign-wavers were demanding an end to hairspray and aerosols because of the hole in the o-zone they supposedly created. We were all going to die of skin cancer within decades. Well, 45 years later that hole in the o-zone magically healed itself. Or never existed in the first place.

[fdpaq0580]

Yes, the title is a lie meant to stir the pot.

Thanks for the info. Goal achieved, it seems. Such fun!

[GWilliams]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

The problem is that people think they can buy the air over other countries and smother your farts and what you say.

[sounding]

Same tired silly question. The data is there.
If you (humans) add fuel to a cars engine it will go faster. fact. How much faster depends on many factors, like make and model, quality of fuel, fuel mixture, load, resistance, etc. Rather than try to quiet the statement by focusing on one fluctuating element of the fuel mixture, why not engage in more constructive dialog about what might help slow the rate of warming? Global warming/climate change, once vehemently denied, is now openly accepted. One step to go is acknowledgement that human activities have played a part.

In other words, you don't know the answer.

[Taltarzac725]

Same tired silly question. The data is there.
If you (humans) add fuel to a cars engine it will go faster. fact. How much faster depends on many factors, like make and model, quality of fuel, fuel mixture, load, resistance, etc. Rather than try to quiet the statement by focusing on one fluctuating element of the fuel mixture, why not engage in more constructive dialog about what might help slow the rate of warming? Global warming/climate change, once vehemently denied, is now openly accepted. One step to go is acknowledgement that human activities have played a part.

Nicely stated. If the scientists of most reputable institutions all say the same thing they are probably right unless advances in knowledge bring new things to light . Common sense.

[fdpaq0580]

All true, but I'll add best independent, non-political estimates are that human activity will simply delay the next ice age by about 5,000 years---and that is due to the rise of agriculture in Asia over the last 8,000 years and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST 200 YEARS OF BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

Me thinks thou protests too much. 🙂🫠😉

Fact is, you just admitted that human activity has altered the environment and climate. Not so long ago you were stating "no way, Jose, that humans could ever affect the planet in any way. Welcome.

[Normal]

Santa Ana winds have been around since the dawn of humanity. There have been some very serious wind issues recorded the last decade of 19th century in the LA area. The dry years have come and gone, but none were as dry as the 1930s when the mid US recorded the time period as the “Dust Bowl”. I get a kick out of those claiming “Climate “ change when climate has to be measured over a much more lengthy time frame than a year or two.

[sounding]

Nicely stated. If the scientists of most reputable institutions all say the same thing they are probably right unless advances in knowledge bring new things to light . Common sense.

Nicely stated -- but fails to identify exactly how much man-made CO2 actually warmed the earth at any prior year. Notice it is never said. Guess why. Guess why Global Warming became Climate Change.

[fdpaq0580]

And the government websites aren't?
Basics of Climate Change | US EPA (https://www.epa.gov/climatechange-science/basics-climate-change)

Global warming is not settled science. Climate change has been around since the beginning of time. And when the proposed solution is to increase taxes and throttle our standard of living then it is wise to be exposed to scientific based arguments of both sides because it is extremely complex.

I originally believed they hype from Al Gore, but became more skeptical when many scientists in the climate field were challenging the theory. So I dug further and read about the UN climate change conferences and found out that the politicians and bureaucrats dominated the discourse and the many scientists who disagreed were completely ignored.

Science can be and has many times been corrupted by special interests especially when profits and political power can be obtained.

The beauty of science is that it is never "settled" completely. True science isn't corrupt. But, certain groups or individuals may misrepresent, distort, hide, misuse the results of scientific enquiry. Science is the search for truth. Nothing more. Nothing sinister. But many want to hide the truth for many, many reasons, criminal, political, religious, etc. Don't blame science, blame the ones who misuse it.

[Taltarzac725]

Santa Ana winds have been around since the dawn of humanity. There have been some very serious wind issues recorded the last decade of 19th century in the LA area. The dry years have come and gone, but none were as dry as the 1930s when the mid US recorded the time period as the “Dust Bowl”. I get a kick out of those claiming “Climate “ change when climate has to be measured over a much more lengthy time frame than a year or two.


Except for all the man made pollution going into the atmosphere for the last 150 years or so.

[Taltarzac725]

The beauty of science is that it is never "settled" completely. True science isn't corrupt. But, certain groups or individuals may misrepresent, distort, hide, misuse the results of scientific enquiry. Science is the search for truth. Nothing more. Nothing sinister. But many want to hide the truth for many, many reasons, criminal, political, religious, etc. Don't blame science, blame the ones who misuse it.

There certainly have been some huge scientific discoveries that change or scientific knowledge. I do not recall anything about weather that much. Except that they are getting a lot better predicting it.

[fdpaq0580]

.
Warming is happening but man cannot change it without messing things up. That is the one thing we excel at.

We have been very effective so far, haven't we. More effective than we ever thought possible.

[Normal]

Except for all the man made pollution going into the atmosphere for the last 150 years or so.

Certainly not as bad as the Carbon dioxide amounts spewed by volcanic activity though. A few serious eruptions would well eclipse all we have put in the atmosphere over the past 150 years.

[fdpaq0580]

And some of use are smart enough to understand there’s no way man has NOT contributed to climate change. I remember when they stopped making aerosol deodorants due to depletion of the ozone layer. Yes, the climate is always changing but also yes man has contributed to things getting more severe.

True!

[ithos]

Nicely stated. If the scientists of most reputable institutions all say the same thing they are probably right unless advances in knowledge bring new things to light . Common sense.

That is because any scientist or engineer who doesn't espouse a belief in anthropologic global warming theory will almost never be hired by the federal government or academia. Also many have been fired for not going along with the campaign for global scaremongering. It has been that way for ever since IPCC1990.

[fdpaq0580]

Man has contributed to extinction of about everything for greed. They bulldozed land to plant crops, they killed of animals for trophies, they killed their fellow humans for land and control. So why not kill off weather? No other animals can have profound effect of planet earth. Maybe population reduction would be better investment than trying to tilt earth axis?

Truth. Certainly population reduction could make a difference. The question is, how? That is a subject for another thread.

[fdpaq0580]

You are 100% correct! Is the fault of Gavin Newsom and the mayor. He knocked down 3 dams to save a fish and took away some of their water reservoir system. They didn't clean the underbrush. They waited forever when they could've had planes, dropping water and fire retardant soon as it started. They could have called the National Guard out earlier. They could have monitored that area by just flying over every day.

Would'a, could'a, should'a. Playing the blame game? Regulations, infrastructure, laws and practices will change. And the people doing much of the blaming will bitch and moan about taxes to support all the new stuff. Seen it.

[fdpaq0580]

That was up in Oregon and northern CA and looks to have no connection to the water system in Los Angeles.

Lots of bad information out there .

Some just looking to blame someone. Political jab? Maybe.

[fdpaq0580]

^ Concur. Exactly this. I remember in the 1980's when the hyperventilating sign-wavers were demanding an end to hairspray and aerosols because of the hole in the o-zone they supposedly created. We were all going to die of skin cancer within decades. Well, 45 years later that hole in the o-zone magically healed itself. Or never existed in the first place.

Thank the hyperventilating sign-wavers you didn't die of skin cancer. 🙂🙂😉

[fdpaq0580]

The problem is that people think they can buy the air over other countries and smother your farts and what you say.

😱 REALLY? My stars and garters, what will they think of next?

[fdpaq0580]

Nicely stated -- but fails to identify exactly how much man-made CO2 actually warmed the earth at any prior year. Notice it is never said. Guess why. Guess why Global Warming became Climate Change.

I looked it up once for you, but you just gave me another unrealistic red herrington chase. You don't seem to want the truth. You just want to win the debate. So, how much CO2, man-made of course, atoms per billion would actually make a difference. Please show your calculations and sources of information used in said calculations.

No, I don't expect you to do it. You couldn't. Maybe, though, you see how ridiculous your recurring CO2 demand is.

[fdpaq0580]

Quit watching cnn

And go to the meeting of the civil discord club. Learn everything you never knew about the weather, or climate, or whatever they want to tell you.

[Taltarzac725]

Certainly not as bad as the Carbon dioxide amounts spewed by volcanic activity though. A few serious eruptions would well eclipse all we have put in the atmosphere over the past 150 years.

There have not been any serious volcanic eruptions causing widespread changes in the weather for quite a while. And they usually make things colder. Krakatoa in 1883, for example, was a very strong volcanic explosion. And it had done that before as well.

[Cuervo]

I’ve always believed all humans had a natural can-do attitude built in their DNA, but I am starting to realize I was wrong, there seem to be a number of humans that have a can’t do attitude.
When it comes to climate change many will say do nothing and let nature takes it course. For those who truly believe we should not try to harness our own destiny and leave everything to nature, imagine yourself living in a cave, wearing animal skins for clothing and having to forage for food every day. Thanks for early human that were satisfied with what nature dealt them.

[Cuervo]

CORRECTION TO MY LAST POSTING

I’ve always believed all humans had a natural can-do attitude built in their DNA, but I am starting to realize I was wrong, there seem to be a number of humans that have a can’t do attitude.
When it comes to climate change many will say do nothing and let nature takes it course. For those who truly believe we should not try to harness our own destiny and leave everything to nature, imagine yourself living in a cave, wearing animal skins for clothing and having to forage for food every day. Thanks for early human that were NOT satisfied with what nature dealt them.

[jimjamuser]

I wish a real climate expert would come on here.
Well, the TV channel that I watch has climate experts on saying that the extra strength of the Santa Anna Winds are related to climate change. And since 2024 has been determined to be the HOTTEST on record, then I believe that there is some effect from Climate Change. What I basically hear is that some areas of the world are MORE influenced by the Global Heating than other areas. For example, the North and South Polar regions are effected as much as 4 times greater than the mid Latitudes. The Arctic ocean will have zero ice in a few years. That's why various countries are racing to establish mining operations there for lithium and other minerals.
........There are recent trends pushing people AWAY from science and scientific explanations. We will likely see it happening for THIS thread.

[ithos]

Well, the TV channel that I watch has climate experts on saying that the extra strength of the Santa Anna Winds are related to climate change. And since 2024 has been determined to be the HOTTEST on record, then I believe that there is some effect from Climate Change. What I basically hear is that some areas of the world are MORE influenced by the Global Heating than other areas. For example, the North and South Polar regions are effected as much as 4 times greater than the mid Latitudes. The Arctic ocean will have zero ice in a few years. That's why various countries are racing to establish mining operations there for lithium and other minerals.
........There are recent trends pushing people AWAY from science and scientific explanations. We will likely see it happening for THIS thread.

There are "climate experts" on both sides of this issue. Global Warming is a theory. It can not be be proven or disproven by a headcount of experts, professors and meteorologists. Nor can it be proven by any established scientific protocol, standard or testing.

The best we can do is to have reputable and highly credentialed professionals on both sides of the issue to participate in public debates or some other form of discourse that would be promulgated for all the world to see.

But of course that will never take place since the true goal of the climate agenda is not saving the planet but to expand the power of government so as to control or limit the freedom of individuals.

[jimjamuser]

It was fun. Today's audience at the Civil Discourse Club was happy to hear that climate was not the cause of the LA fires, but has everything to do with improving global weather -- including decreasing hurricanes and tornadoes. They were especially interested in hearing about the 2023/24 global warming spike - which is temporary. As a result, more people have signed up for the Weather Club's monthly announcements listing.
"Decreasing hurricanes and tornadoes".....not planet-wide on THIS Earth. Heat is the driving force for hurricanes and tornadoes. July 10th was the HOTTEST EVER RECORDED. 2024 was the 2nd most active on record for tornadoes in the US with over 1750 CONFIRMED tornadoes. Worldwide, in 2024, it is the US with the dubious honor of leading the world with the most (54) tornado-related deaths. China was at 14 and South Africa had 12. This stuff can be Googled - I am NOT making it up. Facts can be found very easily today.
......We do NOT have DECREASING hurricanes and tornadoes.

[Pinball wizard]

Looks very one-sided.

Not saying they are right or wrong but "facts" tend to be one-sided.

[jimjamuser]

"Faster" is a subjective opinion. Do you have any supporting data -- like how much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth in 2023 for example?
2024 is the worldwide warmest on record (since temperatures were recorded). And the last 10 years are the warmest 10 on record. The fact that they are recent and increasing should SCARE everyone. They are numbers that can't be denied - even by climate deniers.

[ThirdOfFive]

Bingo. Way to silence the sky is falling crowd.
Never happen. You preach heresy to a True Believer and it automatically gets rejected out-of-hand.

[jimjamuser]

Such garbage, the Santa Ana winds are not caused by climate change and Santa Ana winds have nothing to do with Santa Ana, California. Our house burned down along with 220 others in Santa Barbara due to Santa Ana winds almost 50 years ago. Back then, the fools were calling it global warming, or the hole in the ozone layer, or some other catchy phrase they tried to pull over us.
People (California leadership, homeowners) have to take responsibility for these fires, for example, the idiotic leadership has to implement standards in building construction, like no cedar roofs, no tall trees close to the house and creating fire breaks and implementing forest management.
But, all the California leadership can do is blame everyone else. These fires are right next to the ocean, salt water that would extinguish the flames easier, and nothing is happening. We were in another fire in another state and we had 50 helicopters with buckets dipping their buckets in our lake and dumping it on the fires. Not 1 helicopter was issued to do that in these California fires.
Maui, same thing happened. Ignorant leadership.
Well, then why is it that every day of every hour recently, I have seen helicopters dropping water and fire retardant out of buckets or some container?????

[jimjamuser]

This might sound heartless, but we all understand this risk we take when we decide where we want to live. I've chosen to live here in Florida with the knowledge that I could find myself homeless one day due to a hurricane. The residents of California have to be aware they are living under a triple threat, Fire, Earthquakes, and Mudslides. Yet they have decided to live there anyway.

Now is climate change adding to the severity of the fires in California. Believer in climate change will say yes and deniers will say no. I can't give you an answer, but I do know in my lifetime the climate has been changing. Now I have two questions, is man responsible for the present change in the climate and even if he is not, is there something that we can do to reverse it. If not for us, for our grandchildren.
"something we can do" .........I must have written 50 posts saying that buying Electric vehicles and bikes are the MAIN thing that people can do. Increased populations driving gasoline vehicles worldwide are the problem. The problem is so bad that the US government should pay 80% of a new Electric vehicle, but that won't happen. Because it is so much easier to ignore the problem and the OIL and GAS industry makes MEGA PROFITS.

[jimjamuser]

If ANYONE believes this, come on over…I’ve got a bridge for sale. THEY are really grasping at straws here. I watched my childhood home burn last week! I can tell you with CERTAINTY that the SA Winds existed in the sixties…as I’m sure they have for eons. Long before the idiots started screaming that we somehow caused it. Yes, the earth too has been warming for eons…LONG before the internal combustion engine. Proof that it’s not us.
The world has 8.2 Billion people in it today. There were much fewer in the 1960s. And MANY fewer automobiles and people burning Coal worldwide.

[sounding]

I looked it up once for you, but you just gave me another unrealistic red herrington chase. You don't seem to want the truth. You just want to win the debate. So, how much CO2, man-made of course, atoms per billion would actually make a difference. Please show your calculations and sources of information used in said calculations.

No, I don't expect you to do it. You couldn't. Maybe, though, you see how ridiculous your recurring CO2 demand is.

Not as ridiculous as the non-stop climate-change scare-mongering in the media. But again, you aren't able to say how much man-made CO2 warmed the earth in 2024.

[Boomer]

I often have found the Civil Discourse Club to be nearing SRO and people have to be turned away because of room capacity. I attended what I think might have been their very first meeting, seems like it was in 2007, not sure. Anyway, we were renting at that time and the clubs were all listed in the paper.

I did not have my glasses on when I read about the (brand new at the time) Civil Discourse Club and, at first, I thought it said the Civil Disobedience Club. I have been interested in some of their speakers and sometimes not interested. But why mock the meetings of those who might, on occasion, think differently. (Rhetorical Question, thus no question mark at the end.)

Btw, I have an old friend whose house in Malibu is now a pile of ashes and another person I know has had to evacuate from a different one of those fires.

I am not an expert on climate, but I know hogwash when I see it. Many of those houses are built of wood -- and there you have plenty of kindling. The force of those winds is creating a hellscape. That old routine about vegetation is a monumental exaggeration, spreading, not unlike wildfire, just because narrowly informed people have decided to judge an entire state of lives -- and lives lost.

The bravery of those firefighters is amazing. There are no words to express my great respect for what they are doing for others. In my opinion, firefighters are the true definition of the word awesome. (And firefighters go into action without stopping to ask if the victims of the fire think like them.)

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

But what I do understand is the very clear picture I am getting from the words of those who are coming through as gloating. Are people actually dancing on the ashes of other people's lives just because they do not like the State of California. What have we come to..........

Boomer


- - - -

You do know that there is no actual conscious entity named Mother Nature, right? Emotions cannot be attributed to euphemistic terms for the natural world.


Good afternoon, Saucy Jim. I must address your lifting my words out of context when you quoted only my next-to-last paragraph from what is now post #13 in this thread. That was an odd and disingenuous thing to do to my original post, where I was not arguing climate change, but was reacting to the hateful things I am seeing in the words of people who appear to be taking joy and finding humor in the tragedy of the fires.

C’mon, you chose to lift my figurative, not literal, wording, while ignoring the point of my entire post, quoted at the top of this page.

If you are willing to look again, just skip over the part where I talk about the Civil Discourse Club and pick up at the third paragraph that starts with “Btw,” and there you can read my point — but my guess is you chose to ignore that and were just looking for an opportunity to be snarky, lamely implying that I think Mother Nature is real. . .

BUT, ya know, I did see her when she did a commercial for Chiffon margarine a long time ago. Her only line was, “It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature.” So! There she was. Right there on that television screen, albeit a small one. And aren’t we supposed to believe everything we see on a screen we watch and then behave accordingly while quoting a mindless mantra, abdicating our own critical thinking skills. Some people sure do just that.

The post I was responding to is now gone, but that post was a bitter mocking of the people who are losing everything in this fire. That post and a couple of others, gone now, too, caused me to speak up — which is what I did.

The lack of caring about others has been strategically cultivated for the gain of power. That type of cultivating has been a part of divide-and- conquer world history forever, but this century’s glut of media opportunities has made it so easy to turn people against each other.

People I have known to be kind souls are now falling for this hateful stuff. Why some are so susceptible to manipulation that drives them to take joy in the tragedy of other Americans is a mystery to me.

Anyway, please do not take my words out of context and then twist them to whatever it is you need. But if you want to argue my point about the inhumanity/dehumanizing we are seeing now in our purposely divided America, well then……..

Boomer

PS: Jon Stewart made the same point last night — but with biting sarcasm, insighful ox-goring. Watch it if you dare.

[jimjamuser]

I think to sit on the sideline and do nothing if man has a chance to reverse the cycle of climate change would be a failure. In the past 50 years we've gone from land lines to cell phone, we've gone from earth bound to space. With the aid of A.I. there might be a solution of how to control the climate.
A.I needs MAGA-GOOBS of energy. So, A.I. MAY help push forward knowledge, but at a cost of huge wasted energy. Maybe nuclear energy will improve (they are getting smaller) and provide so much energy that China will not need to burn so much coal. And like California, the US will require all automobiles to be Electric after some (?) year. We can only hope.

[fdpaq0580]

In other words, you don't know the answer.

And you do?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

"Faster" is a subjective opinion. Do you have any supporting data -- like how much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth in 2023 for example?

"Climate change" is not synonymous with "global warming" or "man-made CO2." It's like asking if the reason flowers grow in flower beds is because people buy fertilizer.

If we hadn't polluted the air. If we hadn't cut down forests. If we hadn't used the land for toxic waste. If we hadn't drilled thousands of miles worth of holes in the planet. If we hadn't replaced pristine natural reserves with skyscrapers and parking lots and commercial areas. If we hadn't dumped garbage in our water sources...

then the climate change would have still happened, but not as quickly. Glaciers melt. That's a natural part of climate change. But they're melting quicker now, than they have ever in the current incarnation of the existence of humans as homo sapien sapien.

The Age of Agriculture created pockets of needy soil that hadn't previously existed, which required water, which meant depleting local water sources, which meant needing to create chemical methods of growing to preserve water, which then attracted more pests, which needed more pesticide, which polluted the air, water, and land, which killed animals, which caused harm to the ecosystem and food chain, which led to dead critters, which led to decay, which composts and becomes heated, which seeps into water sources, which erodes the oceans, and so on and so forth.

The Bronze Age contributed its own death punch to the planet. Didn't kill it, but gave it a shake. The Iron Age did as well.

Throughout human history, we have continued to leech from the planet that sustains us, use it up, and burn it, pollute it, evaporate it, or otherwise consume it. Climate change is NOT the result of that, but it is AFFECTED by that.

You don't have to like it. And we can't stop it. Even if we were to slow it down /now/ we would likely not see the results of that slow-down in our lifetime, or our grandchildren's lifetimes.

[fdpaq0580]

Except for all the man made pollution going into the atmosphere for the last 150 years or so.

Yes. Conveniently left out of the dialog.

[jimjamuser]

Same tired silly question. The data is there.
If you (humans) add fuel to a cars engine it will go faster. fact. How much faster depends on many factors, like make and model, quality of fuel, fuel mixture, load, resistance, etc. Rather than try to quiet the statement by focusing on one fluctuating element of the fuel mixture, why not engage in more constructive dialog about what might help slow the rate of warming? Global warming/climate change, once vehemently denied, is now openly accepted. One step to go is acknowledgement that human activities have played a part.
If you compare the graphs of World Population in the last 50 years with a graph of Global Warming over the same time period, you can see both rise in the last 10 years. That just about explains it all.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Maybe the Wind Gusts are keeping them from providing Air Support. They have used air support including super tankers in the past, but not during high winds.

They had a "super scooper" plane from Canada deployed over one of the fires, but someone idiot who wanted their 15 minutes of fame on TikTok got the genius idea of flying their drone over the area. The drone caused damage to the plane and it had to be grounded.

The stupidity of my fellow humans never ceases to amaze me.

[Nana2Teddy]

I often have found the Civil Discourse Club to be nearing SRO and people have to be turned away because of room capacity. I attended what I think might have been their very first meeting, seems like it was in 2007, not sure. Anyway, we were renting at that time and the clubs were all listed in the paper.

I did not have my glasses on when I read about the (brand new at the time) Civil Discourse Club and, at first, I thought it said the Civil Disobedience Club. I have been interested in some of their speakers and sometimes not interested. But why mock the meetings of those who might, on occasion, think differently. (Rhetorical Question, thus no question mark at the end.)

Btw, I have an old friend whose house in Malibu is now a pile of ashes and another person I know has had to evacuate from a different one of those fires.

I am not an expert on climate, but I know hogwash when I see it. Many of those houses are built of wood -- and there you have plenty of kindling. The force of those winds is creating a hellscape. That old routine about vegetation is a monumental exaggeration, spreading, not unlike wildfire, just because narrowly informed people have decided to judge an entire state of lives -- and lives lost.

The bravery of those firefighters is amazing. There are no words to express my great respect for what they are doing for others. In my opinion, firefighters are the true definition of the word awesome. (And firefighters go into action without stopping to ask if the victims of the fire think like them.)

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

But what I do understand is the very clear picture I am getting from the words of those who are coming through as gloating. Are people actually dancing on the ashes of other people's lives just because they do not like the State of California. What have we come to..........

Boomer
Thank you for this! 🤗 My former life was in SoCal, and my whole family (3 adult kids, 3 y/o grandson, sister, brothers, very dear life long friends) all still live there. It’s all so heartbreaking. 💔

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

All true, but I'll add best independent, non-political estimates are that human activity will simply delay the next ice age by about 5,000 years---and that is due to the rise of agriculture in Asia over the last 8,000 years and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST 200 YEARS OF BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

I think it's a stackable thing. Problem A happened, and then problem B happened, while problems C, D, and E were lining up to happen simultaneously. Then problems F and G happened, and then - the tipping point, was drilling enormous holes in the planet, sucking out the oil and leaving hollow pockets, and burning all of that oil into the atmosphere. I think it would've had little to no effect on climate change if nothing else had also already happened. But because all those other things happened - this was the thing that said "y'know what, Mother Nature is having a big sad. Her tears were glaciers, and now they're breaking off and doing things they weren't supposed to do until the human race evolved again."

[jimjamuser]

There certainly have been some huge scientific discoveries that change or scientific knowledge. I do not recall anything about weather that much. Except that they are getting a lot better predicting it.
What about the Ben Franklin and the kite flying experiment that involved lightning and electricity. That had a weather element.

[fdpaq0580]

That is because any scientist or engineer who doesn't espouse a belief in anthropologic global warming theory will almost never be hired by the federal government or academia. Also many have been fired for not going along with the campaign for global scaremongering. It has been that way for ever since IPCC1990.

WOW! A worldwide mega conspiracy. Now that is "scaremongering". Lions, Tigers and bears, oh my, and now global anti-science conspiracy? Welcome to the Matrix. 😄😁🫠

[jimjamuser]

Truth. Certainly population reduction could make a difference. The question is, how? That is a subject for another thread.
Compare the graphs of world population and world temperatures.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think to sit on the sideline and do nothing if man has a chance to reverse the cycle of climate change would be a failure. In the past 50 years we've gone from land lines to cell phone, we've gone from earth bound to space. With the aid of A.I. there might be a solution of how to control the climate.

We can't "reverse" the cycle. At the absolute best, we can slow it down a bit so the next planetary shift doesn't wipe us out in 50,000, but instead maybe in 55,000 years. If we had started during the Age of Agriculture and been better stewards of the planet, maybe we could've prevented the CURRENT situation from being as extreme, and as frequent, and for as long a period per series of events. But we couldn't have stopped it.

Planets are born to die. It's simply what they do. It can take millions of years but eventually they conk out. Our planet is no different. It is in the process of dying. It won't happen in the next 10,000 years. But we will see new "tricks" of nature that we might not have seen before.

[jimjamuser]

There have not been any serious volcanic eruptions causing widespread changes in the weather for quite a while. And they usually make things colder. Krakatoa in 1883, for example, was a very strong volcanic explosion. And it had done that before as well.
The melting of glaciers in Antarctica could uncover a lot of volcanoes in about 50 years.

[fdpaq0580]

CORRECTION TO MY LAST POSTING

I’ve always believed all humans had a natural can-do attitude built in their DNA, but I am starting to realize I was wrong, there seem to be a number of humans that have a can’t do attitude.
When it comes to climate change many will say do nothing and let nature takes it course. For those who truly believe we should not try to harness our own destiny and leave everything to nature, imagine yourself living in a cave, wearing animal skins for clothing and having to forage for food every day. Thanks for early human that were NOT satisfied with what nature dealt them.

Agree! Our weakness is that in trying to improve our lot, we didn’t know enough to see far enough ahead where we could forsee the problems we created along the way. Now we know the mistakes that were made, but some don't want to acknowledge humanities responsibilities. They, like a hit and run driver, are afraid of having to take the blame.

[ithos]

WOW! A worldwide mega conspiracy. Now that is "scaremongering". Lions, Tigers and bears, oh my, and now global anti-science conspiracy? Welcome to the Matrix. ������������������

These are just a few that took only a couple of minutes to find. There are many more examples but based on your unserious and disrespectful response, it is obvious that in any dialogue with you, logic, reason and facts would be of no use.

Professor fired after expressing climate change skepticism | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/professor-fired-after-expressing-climate-change-skepticism)
Nicholas Drapela, Professor And Climate Change Denier, Fired From Oregon State University | HuffPost College (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/professor-nicholas-drapela-fired_n_1615947)
Grapevine: Prof fired for calling global warming unproven science | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/grapevine-prof-fired-for-calling-global-warming-unproven-science)
Access to this page has been denied. (https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/caleb-rossiter-fired-for-climate-views/)
EXCLUSIVE: Prof Fired For Calling Global Warming ‘Unproved Science’ Stands Firm | The College Fix (https://www.thecollegefix.com/exclusive-prof-fired-for-calling-global-warming-unproved-science-stands-firm/)
https://www.chronicle.com/article/state-climatologists-caught-in-global-warming-crossfire/
https://cornwallalliance.org/what-happens-to-professors-who-dare-question-climate-orthodoxy/

[fdpaq0580]

(Dingaling) My audible notification
To those who might care, I repost what I found last year. It was as accurate as is reasonable for layman dialog. With the increase in population and other human related activities, I expect the 2024 data to be slightly greater than that of 2023.

"AI Overview
According to current data, the Earth's temperature rose by approximately 2.12 deg F above the 20th century average in 2023, making it the warmest year on record, with the majority of this warming attributed to human-caused CO2 emissions; however, pinpointing the exact amount of warming directly caused by man-made CO2 in a single year is complex and depends on various factors, including the overall increase of all greenhouse gases and the Earth's natural climate variability."

[sounding]

2024 is the worldwide warmest on record (since temperatures were recorded). And the last 10 years are the warmest 10 on record. The fact that they are recent and increasing should SCARE everyone. They are numbers that can't be denied - even by climate deniers.

People have been repeatedly misled into believing the 2023/24 global warming spike is the work of CO2, but that's totally false. The heat spike is due to the Hunga Tonga volcano -- which is explained in detail at the Weather Club.

[sounding]

(Dingaling) My audible notification
To those who might care, I repost what I found last year. It was as accurate as is reasonable for layman dialog. With the increase in population and other human related activities, I expect the 2024 data to be slightly greater than that of 2023.

"AI Overview
According to current data, the Earth's temperature rose by approximately 2.12 deg F above the 20th century average in 2023, making it the warmest year on record, with the majority of this warming attributed to human-caused CO2 emissions; however, pinpointing the exact amount of warming directly caused by man-made CO2 in a single year is complex and depends on various factors, including the overall increase of all greenhouse gases and the Earth's natural climate variability."

AI = Artificial Ignorance. The 2023/24 warming spike is Tonga-caused -- not CO2 or Methane.

[fdpaq0580]

AI = Artificial Ignorance. The 2023/24 warming spike is Tonga-caused -- not CO2 or Methane.

Wait and see.
Meanwhile, the AI Overview is just that, an overview of all scientific data. It does not stand alone as the expert. It is simply an overview of all pertinent data provided by scientific journals, factors, papers, reports, etc. You know, stuff the real experts put out, as in data, facts and figures. You dismis it because it doesn't tell a story you like. That's fine. Don't believe it, don't accept it. The truth doesn't change whether we believe it or not.

[jimjamuser]

People have been repeatedly misled into believing the 2023/24 global warming spike is the work of CO2, but that's totally false. The heat spike is due to the Hunga Tonga volcano -- which is explained in detail at the Weather Club.
Oh Tonga, Tonga, Tonga - form a Tonga line. As I stated last Spring ( before 2 climate change enhanced hurricanes damaged Florida) Climate Scientists at first thought that Tonga would warm the Earth. Later they came to the conclusion that it had little or no effect. Plus it is now 3 years in our rear view mirror. No climate scientists care about it anymore - they decided NOT to beat a dead Tonga horse.
.........Plus 2024 was the warmest on the planet. And there is no "spike". It is a gradual warming trend which increased greatly in the last 10 years. The heating is GRADUAL (as in no spike) and the result of excess CO2 forming a layer in the upper atmosphere and reflecting (refracting) some of the suns heat BACK to the Earth. Automobiles exhaust and burning coal by the increased world human population of the last 10 or 15 years PRODUCES CO2 so MASSIVE that the world's oceans can no longer absorb it all. So it drifts up into the upper atmosphere and forms a heat reflective layer - that was not present 15 or 20 years ago. Also,the excess CO2 in the ocean has killed coral reefs.

[jimjamuser]

AI = Artificial Ignorance. The 2023/24 warming spike is Tonga-caused -- not CO2 or Methane.
People should look at a graph of temperature increase worldwide for the last 10 or 15 years. There is no SPIKE. Just a gradual increase as world population and therefore CO2 has increased.

[jimjamuser]

AI = Artificial Ignorance. The 2023/24 warming spike is Tonga-caused -- not CO2 or Methane.
I believe that I would bet on A. I. when it comes to the role that CO2 plays in Global Warming.

[jimjamuser]

Wait and see.
Meanwhile, the AI Overview is just that, an overview of all scientific data. It does not stand alone as the expert. It is simply an overview of all pertinent data provided by scientific journals, factors, papers, reports, etc. You know, stuff the real experts put out, as in data, facts and figures. You dismis it because it doesn't tell a story you like. That's fine. Don't believe it, don't accept it. The truth doesn't change whether we believe it or not.
I agree !!!!!

[JMintzer]

Thanks for the info. Goal achieved, it seems. Such fun!

And look how many people just had to jump in and add to the post stirring with the same old tired arguments...

[JMintzer]

Nicely stated. If the scientists of most reputable institutions all say the same thing they are probably right unless advances in knowledge bring new things to light . Common sense.

I think you meant to say "scientists of the most well funded institutions who will lose their funding if they dare stray from the party line"...

Common sense...

[JMintzer]

Thank the hyperventilating sign-wavers you didn't die of skin cancer. 🙂🙂😉

Except that skin cancer rates have skyrocketed over the past decade...

Care to explain that phenomena?

[JMintzer]

"Climate change" is not synonymous with "global warming" or "man-made CO2." It's like asking if the reason flowers grow in flower beds is because people buy fertilizer.

If we hadn't polluted the air. If we hadn't cut down forests. If we hadn't used the land for toxic waste. If we hadn't drilled thousands of miles worth of holes in the planet. If we hadn't replaced pristine natural reserves with skyscrapers and parking lots and commercial areas. If we hadn't dumped garbage in our water sources...

then the climate change would have still happened, but not as quickly. Glaciers melt. That's a natural part of climate change. But they're melting quicker now, than they have ever in the current incarnation of the existence of humans as homo sapien sapien.

The Age of Agriculture created pockets of needy soil that hadn't previously existed, which required water, which meant depleting local water sources, which meant needing to create chemical methods of growing to preserve water, which then attracted more pests, which needed more pesticide, which polluted the air, water, and land, which killed animals, which caused harm to the ecosystem and food chain, which led to dead critters, which led to decay, which composts and becomes heated, which seeps into water sources, which erodes the oceans, and so on and so forth.

The Bronze Age contributed its own death punch to the planet. Didn't kill it, but gave it a shake. The Iron Age did as well.

Throughout human history, we have continued to leech from the planet that sustains us, use it up, and burn it, pollute it, evaporate it, or otherwise consume it. Climate change is NOT the result of that, but it is AFFECTED by that.

You don't have to like it. And we can't stop it. Even if we were to slow it down /now/ we would likely not see the results of that slow-down in our lifetime, or our grandchildren's lifetimes.

If only Joni Mitchell had written "Big Yellow Taxi" a hundred years earlier...

[JMintzer]

The stupidity of my fellow humans never ceases to amaze me.

I say the same thing every time I log on to ToTV...

[Topspinmo]

"something we can do" .........I must have written 50 posts saying that buying Electric vehicles and bikes are the MAIN thing that people can do. Increased populations driving gasoline vehicles worldwide are the problem. The problem is so bad that the US government should pay 80% of a new Electric vehicle, but that won't happen. Because it is so much easier to ignore the problem and the OIL and GAS industry makes MEGA PROFITS.

Who makes more on gallon of gas? Not the big bad oil companies.

not my words

Quote :

“According to most information, the government typically makes more money per gallon of gas than oil companies, primarily due to the significant amount of taxes collected on gasoline through federal and state gas taxes, which often exceed the profit margin of oil companies per gallon.

So there you’re theory on who makes big profits… :highfive:

[JMintzer]

The melting of glaciers in Antarctica could uncover a lot of volcanoes in about 50 years.

But the melting of the (up to) two mile thick glaciers that covered most of North America, exposing some of the most fertile farmland in the world was a good thing, right?

[JMintzer]

I believe that I would bet on A. I. when it comes to the role that CO2 plays in Global Warming.

Even though it uses "Goobles of energy"? Not very energy efficient if you ask me...

[SoCalGal]

Find out why Jan 13 at 10 AM at the Savannah for a talk called "Florida Weather 101" for the Civil Discourse Club.

Oh, please. Stop it.

[SoCalGal]

Santa Ana winds aren't "caused by" climate change. This weather phenomena has been part of the ecosystem for at least the last 5000 years. What's "caused by" climate change is the increased range, severity, and frequency. But this wind pattern is not new, and dates back to the Bronze Age.

I've lived practically in the lap of the Santa Ana winds for 45 years. There has never been a winter/spring that the Santa Ana winds haven't rattled the windows and blown the furniture off the patio.

[SoCalGal]

Any field of academic study that blacklists and fires scientists that have contrary views is corrupted and can not be taken seriously.

Same thing in medicine.

[SoCalGal]

"something we can do" .........I must have written 50 posts saying that buying electric vehicles and bikes is the MAIN thing that people can do

Gotta upgrade America's power grid first. The current condition of our power grid cannot support millions more EVs.

[fdpaq0580]

And look how many people just had to jump in and add to the post stirring with the same old tired arguments...

Such fun! All the yapping and zero actual effect on real world problems, positive or negative. Some are correct, while others only believe they are. We all get a cardio workout tapping our keyboards. At least we are aren't bored. 🙂😉