Yet another RB thread (yuk)

[golfing eagles]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

[BrianL99]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago [Massachusetts installed it's first roundabout, 10-15 years ago]. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

[golfing eagles]

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

But there are plenty of 2 lane RBs in Mass. as well. One lane is not the solution, having DRVING SKILLS is.

[frayedends]

Never seen a roundabout in Massachusetts except 1 that is only 1 lane. I’ve been here 55 years. The one I have seen is actually a rotary but they put a sign calling it a roundabout. But as mentioned I’ve never seen one with 2 marked lanes.

[Bill14564]

Never seen a roundabout in Massachusetts except 1 that is only 1 lane. I’ve been here 55 years. The one I have seen is actually a rotary but they put a sign calling it a roundabout. But as mentioned I’ve never seen one with 2 marked lanes.

Rotaries in Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotaries_in_Massachusetts)

[frayedends]

Rotaries in Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotaries_in_Massachusetts)

Obviously a flawed article. In one sentence it says rotaries and roundabouts are the same and in another say Mass DOT is switching from one to the other. Makes no sense. But as I said, never seen a marked lane roundabout in Massachusetts. I still live here full time. Wiki has no pics of a roundabout in Massachusetts.

From the wikipedia article, this below is listed as a "roundabout". It is clearly a rotary.

https://i.imgur.com/KJo7uJDl.jpg

[Bill14564]

Obviously a flawed article. In one sentence it says rotaries and roundabouts are the same and in another say Mass DOT is switching from one to the other. Makes no sense. But as I said, never seen a marked lane roundabout in Massachusetts. I still live here full time. Wiki has no pics of a roundabout in Massachusetts.

From the wikipedia article, this below is listed as a "roundabout". It is clearly a rotary.



I see several roads meeting at a circle. Call it a roundabout, traffic circle, rotary, or that thing I don't want to acknowledge but there are many of them in MA.

Wiki doesn't do pics, they do words and links. However, if you take those words and paste them into Google maps then you get pics like the above... many of them.

[frayedends]

I see several roads meeting at a circle. Call it a roundabout, traffic circle, rotary, or that thing I don't want to acknowledge but there are many of them in MA.

Wiki doesn't do pics, they do words and links. However, if you take those words and paste them into Google maps then you get pics like the above... many of them.

Then our differences are just semantics. I consider a roundabout like what we see in Florida, with marked lanes and the requirement to yield to those in the roundabout. Rotaries are similar and you yield if you have to, but you can also merge. Rotaries are larger than roundabout and a bit more of a free-for-all.

There is actually 1 spot near me that is small, 1 lane and I guess I would consider it a roundabout. In true Massachusetts fashion, it is so poorly designed that semi trucks go over the raised center circle because they can't navigate the curve.

This is it here. What I consider different is the pic in my last post is a free-for-all, room for multiple lanes but nothing marked. It's like Chevy Chase looking at Big Ben in European Vacation. The pic below is only 1 lane so can't go nuts. My point overall is that neither of these would teach Massachusetts drivers the rules of a Villages Roundabout, with lanes and posted rules.

https://i.imgur.com/mmsBbbel.png

[jimhoward]

Its the right of way ambiguity that causes most of the problems, not lack of driving skill, or wrong-headed learning in Massachusetts.

At any exit the inner lane car could be getting off or going around, as could the outer lane car. The convention that one take the outer lane to go 1/4 or 1/2 way around and the inner lane to go 1/2 or 3/4 way around does not resolve this conflict. Nor do any of the posted driving rules.

And both cars are in the Roundabout.

This conflict would be greatly reduced if people used there directionals, but few do.

Survival makes one quickly learn that if you are in the outer lane you always assume the inner lane is getting off and yield. if fact most learn to not even enter the rotary if there is a car in the inner lane, because he is very likely to get off in front of you at your first exit (you are going to your second exit) and which he is fully entitled to do. But that is most of the few accidents that I have seen....inner lane getting off, outer lane going around.

[ElDiabloJoe]

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.
There has been a roundabout aka traffic circle in downtown Long Beach, CA since at least 1987. Math puts that at 38 years ago - FAR preceding your "first roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago." In fact, well over twice as old as that posited by you. Not sure from where your intel derives.

A quick check of the google machine indicates the Long Beach traffic circle was built in 1932. What's that, about 93 years old?

Long Beach's traffic circle is where PCH (no, not OBT) meets the Lakewood Blvd and Los Coyotes Diagonal. If you need to google map it, simply look for Porsche of Long Beach.

[Bill14564]

Its the right of way ambiguity that causes most of the problems, not lack of driving skill, or wrong-headed learning in Massachusetts.

At any exit the inner lane car could be getting off or going around, as could the outer lane car. The convention that one take the outer lane to go 1/4 or 1/2 way around and the inner lane to go 1/2 or 3/4 way around does not resolve this conflict. Nor do any of the posted driving rules.

And both cars are in the Roundabout.

...

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns LEFT, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

[frayedends]

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns right, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

You are correct and there is a mistake I made once and only once. I assumed if the right/outer lane was vacant, that I could enter the roundabout. I didn’t think there would be conflict with a car on the inner lane. That was my mistake because that car was exiting at his 2nd or 3rd turn correctly but I was now blocking him because I was going to my second exit. I won’t make that error again.

[frayedends]

There has been a roundabout aka traffic circle in downtown Long Beach, CA since at least 1987. Math puts that at 38 years ago - FAR preceding your "first roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago." In fact, well over twice as old as that posited by you. Not sure from where your intel derives.

A quick check of the google machine indicates the Long Beach traffic circle was built in 1932. What's that, about 93 years old?

Long Beach's traffic circle is where PCH (no, not OBT) meets the Lakewood Blvd and Los Coyotes Diagonal. If you need to google map it, simply look for Porsche of Long Beach.

What does California have to do with Massachusetts?

[golfing eagles]

Whether you call it a roundabout or a rotary, they still don't know how to drive in one.

[BrianL99]

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)



There has been a roundabout aka traffic circle in downtown Long Beach, CA since at least 1987. Math puts that at 38 years ago - FAR preceding your "first roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago." In fact, well over twice as old as that posited by you. Not sure from where your intel derives.

A quick check of the google machine indicates the Long Beach traffic circle was built in 1932. What's that, about 93 years old?

Long Beach's traffic circle is where PCH (no, not OBT) meets the Lakewood Blvd and Los Coyotes Diagonal. If you need to google map it, simply look for Porsche of Long Beach.


What does California have to do with Massachusetts?

I was wondering the same thing. I think they're about 3200 miles apart?

I have travelled the roundabout in Long Beach, though. Bought a 914 from the Porsche dealer in 1974.

(GF was going to school in Long Beach. , Christie Brinkley was in the dorm room next to her. Her BF drove a Toyota 2000GT, one of only 350 or so imported into the USA. Probably worth upwards of $2.5M these days. My GF's roommate was dating Bill Withers. We even got to spend time on John Wayne's boat, the Wild Goose. Thinking about the Long Beach Rotary brings back memories of my misspent youth!)

[HellToupee]

Aggressive driving rules the day in MA rotaries

[tophcfa]

Whether you call it a roundabout or a rotary, they still don't know how to drive in one.

In our northern neck of the woods, up in western MA, they have gone roundabout happy over the last few years. Speed humps (very wide and more gentle speed bumps) in residential neighborhoods and roundabouts have become the new standard. I most definitely wouldn’t call it an upgrade, but apparently the powers that be, who design the traffic flow, think it improves things…. I take offense to being referred to as “they”, who still don’t know how to drive in one. There are crappy drivers everywhere, but that doesn’t necessarily shoehorn anyone into a broad generalization that someone is a crappy driver regardless of where they are from, or where they are currently driving.

[BrianL99]

In our northern neck of the woods, up in western MA, they have gone roundabout happy over the last few years. Speed humps (very wide and more gentle speed bumps) in residential neighborhoods and roundabouts have become the new standard. I most definitely wouldn’t call it an upgrade, but apparently the powers that be, who design the traffic flow, think it improves things.


Mass Highway made a decision about 10-15 years ago, that roundabout were safer and improved traffic flow and their intent was to eliminate all "rotaries" on state roads.

The famous Concord Rotary on Rt. 2 was changed to a roundabout a few years ago. Traveling that rotary 10 times a day for 40 years, I've had my share of accidents, right there in front of the old Concord Prison. I have to admit, the new roundabout works way better.

On another front, MHD (now MA DOT) had been battling the Town of Littleton for years. They wanted to replace the rotary with a roundabout and the town and local business owners fought it, tooth and nail.

[fdpaq0580]

What does California have to do with Massachusetts?

Just that So Cal drivers have been dealing with "round intersections with something in the center that you have to go around " longer then Messychoochits. 😉 That's all.

[fdpaq0580]

Aggressive driving rules the day in MA rotaries

You can thank all the good drivers that you are still alive.

[tophcfa]

Mass Highway made a decision about 10-15 years ago, that roundabout were safer and improved traffic flow and their intent was to eliminate all "rotaries" on state roads.

The famous Concord Rotary on Rt. 2 was changed to a roundabout a few years ago. Traveling that rotary 10 times a day for 40 years, I've had my share of accidents, right there in front of the old Concord Prison. I have to admit, the new roundabout works way better.

On another front, MHD (now MA DOT) had been battling the Town of Littleton for years. They wanted to replace the rotary with a roundabout and the town and local business owners fought it, tooth and nail.

You are from the busy part of the state. Where we come from in Western MA, two roads that intersect, sometimes with 4 way stop signs, are being turned into roundabouts. I am familiar with the Concord Rotary on Rt. 2, from back in the day in the 1980’s when I lived in Watertown and commuted into the back bay. I took Rt. 2 to Western MA just about every weekend to get out of the rat race of the city and enjoy some open space and fresh air.

[fdpaq0580]

Whether you call it a roundabout or a rotary, they still don't know how to drive in one.

True! Most of the shaved apes have no more civility or ability than their chimp counterparts at grasping the subtle concept of sharing the road and working with others to ensure safe passage one and all.

[fdpaq0580]

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns right, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

Yes. It is. But, look around. Are you really surprised that most folks don't seem to get it. Most folks think they deserve to be first and rules are for others.

[fdpaq0580]

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

Of course, you are right, but where's the fun in that? So much more fun and exciting to be a self indulgent butthead by scaring the "chit" out out of everyone and put lives in jeopardy. (Pardon my sarcasm)

[Amylag]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

Please do not attack the Massachusetts drivers. No one knows how to drive in a roundabout here… People switch lanes constantly. No one uses a directional and you have no idea where they’re going. Add into account the age of the drivers and the number of people that should not even be on the road and the driving around here is just disastrous..

[BrianL99]

You are from the busy part of the state. Where we come from in Western MA, two roads that intersect, sometimes with 4 way stop signs, are being turned into roundabouts. I am familiar with the Concord Rotary on Rt. 2, from back in the day in the 1980’s when I lived in Watertown and commuted into the back bay. I took Rt. 2 to Western MA just about every weekend to get out of the rat race of the city and enjoy some open space and fresh air.

Trust me, you don't want to go back to Watertown and navigate the revamped Watertown Rotary. Worst one in the state in my opinion. I worked on Arsenal St. in the 70's. 1st golf tournament I ever choked away the win, was the Lanno's Open (Italian restaurant, that was off the square for many years). Ate way too much lamb shish k'bob at Demo's, on Mt. Auburn, right outside the square.

[golfing eagles]

In our northern neck of the woods, up in western MA, they have gone roundabout happy over the last few years. Speed humps (very wide and more gentle speed bumps) in residential neighborhoods and roundabouts have become the new standard. I most definitely wouldn’t call it an upgrade, but apparently the powers that be, who design the traffic flow, think it improves things…. I take offense to being referred to as “they”, who still don’t know how to drive in one. There are crappy drivers everywhere, but that doesn’t necessarily shoehorn anyone into a broad generalization that someone is a crappy driver regardless of where they are from, or where they are currently driving.

Please do not attack the Massachusetts drivers. No one knows how to drive in a roundabout here… People switch lanes constantly. No one uses a directional and you have no idea where they’re going. Add into account the age of the drivers and the number of people that should not even be on the road and the driving around here is just disastrous..

I think some people may have misunderstood. I am not "attacking" Massachusetts drivers. I am rebutting those, who on prior threads, have stated that Massachusetts drivers "know how to drive in RBs". Clearly, based on eyewitness experience, some do not. Therefore, it is the blanket statement of "Massachusetts drivers know how to drive in RBs" that I have "attacked".

[rsmurano]

Not sure what the poster was talking about when they stated that we have rotaries and other states have roundabouts because rotaries don’t have solid lines. Our roundabouts have solid white lines on quite a few, and the handicapped drivers that drive them cross the solid white lines to continue driving wrong in the roundabout. For example, go east on meggison from Hawkins toward Morse and the Morse roundabout has a solid white line so anybody in the right lane of the roundabout has to continue going east on meggison but you will see that cars in the right lane cross the solid white line to go north on Morse. There are many other “roundabouts” in the southern area that have solid white lines.
But, every sign going into any roundabout is the same no matter where it’s at or what the round circle is called:
Right lane can’t take a 2nd left, the left lane can’t make a 1st right. The left lane is the ‘only’ lane that can turn left after the 2nd right or go completely around the circle if needed. The solid white lines in some roundabouts keep the right lane right at the 1st exit whereas normally the right lane can take the 2nd exit, like the Morse / Meggison roundabout. You are taught when you are 16 never to cross a solid white line no matter where it’s at

[Two Bills]

Not sure what the poster was talking about when they stated that we have rotaries and other states have roundabouts because rotaries don’t have solid lines. Our roundabouts have solid white lines on quite a few, and the handicapped drivers that drive them cross the solid white lines to continue driving wrong in the roundabout. For example, go east on meggison from Hawkins toward Morse and the Morse roundabout has a solid white line so anybody in the right lane of the roundabout has to continue going east on meggison but you will see that cars in the right lane cross the solid white line to go north on Morse. There are many other “roundabouts” in the southern area that have solid white lines.
But, every sign going into any roundabout is the same no matter where it’s at or what the round circle is called:
Right lane can’t take a 2nd left, the left lane can’t make a 1st right. The left lane is the ‘only’ lane that can turn left after the 2nd right or go completely around the circle if needed. The solid white lines in some roundabouts keep the right lane right at the 1st exit whereas normally the right lane can take the 2nd exit, like the Morse / Meggison roundabout. You are taught when you are 16 never to cross a solid white line no matter where it’s at

Right hand lane is turn right or straight on
There is no right, so straght on is only option.
If you wanted third exit, you should have entered roundabout into left hand lane.
I see nothing conflicting,

[mraines]

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.

I grew up in Jersey and we had roundabouts years ago and never had a problem navigating them.

[kendi]

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.

Signs tell the drivers how to drive the roundabouts. Seems the problem is lack of desire or ability to follow instructions.

[botrott]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.
I am a snowbird and was behind a woman with Florida plates, we were both in a roundabout, she almost came to a complete when trying to exit it.

[CybrSage]

Circles are easy.

Inside has right of way over outside.
Lane 1 has right of way over lane 2, and lane 2 has right of way over outside the circle. Those without right of way must yield.
Solid white cannot be crossed dashed can be.
Done.

There are even pictures on the way in, saying which exists are for which lanes.
Frogs and snowbirds both seem to have issues understanding this. Frogs blame snowbirds for their inability to understand.

[CybrSage]

Aggressive driving rules the day in MA rotaries

I have a card from the American Autoduelist Association that says "Drive Offensively, the life you save may be your own".

:)

[Normal]

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.
A mammoth sized roundabout called Tallmage Circle in Tallmage, Ohio (Early 1800s) was the first traffic circle idea that came into fruition. It was a nightmare for new drivers when I was a kid and the driver’s license bureau made sure you paid it a visit before you did your parallel parking deal. Loved the area though, the Tallmage Buffet was my stop.

[CybrSage]

Right lane can’t take a 2nd left, the left lane can’t make a 1st right. The left lane is the ‘only’ lane that can turn left after the 2nd right or go completely around the circle if needed. The solid white lines in some roundabouts keep the right lane right at the 1st exit whereas normally the right lane can take the 2nd exit, like the Morse / Meggison roundabout. You are taught when you are 16 never to cross a solid white line no matter where it’s at

Some of the Roundabouts have a two lane exit for the first exit, meaning both lanes can exit there.

[Two Bills]

Circles are easy.

Inside has right of way over outside.
Lane 1 has right of way over lane 2, and lane 2 has right of way over outside the circle. Those without right of way must yield.
Solid white cannot be crossed dashed can be.
Done.

There are even pictures on the way in, saying which exists are for which lanes.
Frogs and snowbirds both seem to have issues understanding this. Frogs blame snowbirds for their inability to understand.

No one has to give way to anyone in the roundabout, they are designed for continuous flow.
If you have to stop or give way in the roundabout, someone is in the wrong lane.
Entering the roundabout, give way to all lanes to your left, and only enter when both lanes are clear.
Done.

[Driller703]

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

In Maine it’s a Rotary, or Rotary Traffic.

[NoMo50]

For those who feel challenged by the roundabouts here in The Villages, try driving in France. In France, the laws are a little different, in that cars entering a roundabout have the right of way over vehicles already in the roundabout. Also, for a real adventure, try your hand at the one at the Arc de Triomphe, where 12 roads feed into and out of the roundabout!

[Bill14564]

Circles are easy.

Inside has right of way over outside.
Lane 1 has right of way over lane 2, and lane 2 has right of way over outside the circle. Those without right of way must yield.
Solid white cannot be crossed dashed can be.
Done.

There are even pictures on the way in, saying which exists are for which lanes.
Frogs and snowbirds both seem to have issues understanding this. Frogs blame snowbirds for their inability to understand.

Everyone has issues understanding this because NEITHER LANE HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY! Neither lane *needs* the right of way if the simple, common sense directions are followed.

The only time right of way that comes into play is when yielding to traffic already in the circle - BOTH LANES. Don't enter when traffic is approaching or you could be hit. Don't enter when traffic is in the inside lane because that lane might be exiting and you could be hit. Simply yield to any/all traffic already in the circle or you could be hit.

[Bill14564]

Some of the Roundabouts have a two lane exit for the first exit, meaning both lanes can exit there.

Yes and NO!

Yes, on some/many circles, both the inside lane and the outside lane may exit.

NO, traffic entering from the left/inside lane MUST NOT take the exit to the right (1st exit, 3 o'clock exit, right hand turn, whatever you want to call it).

[DonH57]

Ohio has been inflicted with them as well.

[Annie66]

But there are plenty of 2 lane RBs in Mass. as well. One lane is not the solution, having DRVING SKILLS is.

I disagree that having all the drivers displaying the necessary driving skills is the answer. I'd like to think it could be, but the realist in me tells me it isn't possible. You will never train and/or get all the drivers to comply with the current roundabout rules here in TVs. There are too many curmudgeons who refuse to comply with the simple rules along with the number of drivers that should have had their license revoked years ago.

By changing the roundabouts here to single lanes is a one-time solution. Of course, if the roundabouts are modified to have only one lane, the merging of lanes leading into a roundabout will create its own set of challenges and complaints.

[ElDiabloJoe]

I was wondering the same thing. I think they're about 3200 miles apart?

I have travelled the roundabout in Long Beach, though. Bought a 914 from the Porsche dealer in 1974.

(GF was going to school in Long Beach. , Christie Brinkley was in the dorm room next to her. Her BF drove a Toyota 2000GT, one of only 350 or so imported into the USA. Probably worth upwards of $2.5M these days. My GF's roommate was dating Bill Withers. We even got to spend time on John Wayne's boat, the Wild Goose. Thinking about the Long Beach Rotary brings back memories of my misspent youth!)
I brought up the Long Beach traffic circle because your post claimed the very first roundabout (in the country is how I read it) was in MA. I was simply pointing out there was one wayyyy prior to the one in MA that was the first in the nation.

It appears either your post was vague (not clearly stating you meant the first roundabout build in MA) allowed me to misread you were stating the first (very first in the country) roundabout was in MA. I'll go 1/2 your vagueness error plus 1/2 my misread error.

[Normal]

I brought up the Long Beach traffic circle because your post claimed the very first roundabout (in the country is how I read it) was in MA. I was simply pointing out there was one wayyyy prior to the one in MA that was the first in the nation.

It appears either your post was vague (not clearly stating you meant the first roundabout build in MA) allowed me to misread you were stating the first (very first in the country) roundabout was in MA. I'll go 1/2 your vagueness error plus 1/2 my misread error..

Traffic circles and roundabouts must have had serious problems while phasing out the horse and buggy period. Mr. Ford’s automation I’m sure created havoc and introduced a mandated one way entrance exit system.

Here in the Villages we have signs, and or painted white lines to clarify lane usage. Entering from the right and exiting from the right are clear, except for the occasional seasonal driver with out of state plates.

[Two Bills]

For those who feel challenged by the roundabouts here in The Villages, try driving in France. In France, the laws are a little different, in that cars entering a roundabout have the right of way over vehicles already in the roundabout. Also, for a real adventure, try your hand at the one at the Arc de Triomphe, where 12 roads feed into and out of the roundabout!

That rule has been changed for some time now in France.
Entering gives way to the left, in line with the rest of Europe, or to the right in the UK.

[Danube]

Rotaries in Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotaries_in_Massachusetts)

Wow, LOTS of them. I guess some people don't get out much.

By the way, other readers, rotary, roundabout, and traffic circle all mean the same thing:
Roundabout - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout)

[Danube]

Just that So Cal drivers have been dealing with "round intersections with something in the center that you have to go around " longer then Messychoochits. 😉 That's all.

But that's not true.

[DrHitch]

Not even close....There are many older multi-lane (with striping) in the USA
Oldest Traffic Circle - Historic Towns Of America (https://historictownsofamerica.com/oldest-traffic-circle).

Two lane (or even 3-lane) roundabouts (traffic circles) require you to YIELD or STOP prior to entering the circle. Once inside, watch left and right...Go around again if you miss your turn-out. It's a nice spin!


The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago. ...vs "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

[ElDiabloJoe]

Not even close....There are many older multi-lane (with striping) in the USA
Oldest Traffic Circle - Historic Towns Of America (https://historictownsofamerica.com/oldest-traffic-circle).
...
Looks like you misread the poster's intent as well. He apparently meant the oldest traffic circle in Massachusetts, not the oldest one in the country.
Wow, LOTS of them. I guess some people don't get out much.

By the way, other readers, rotary, roundabout, and traffic circle all mean the same thing:
Roundabout - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout)
As does "town square" in some places like Gettysburg, PA and Orange, CA.

[d1nod1no]

This conflict would be greatly reduced if there were fewer people. IMHO the roundabouts are way too crowded!

[fdpaq0580]

I grew up in Jersey and we had roundabouts years ago and never had a problem navigating them.

Just because you never noticed doesn't mean everyone was an instant expert.

[fdpaq0580]

But that's not true.

OK. Whatever! Hardly relevant to the fact that the problems with roundabouts (generically) is not so much that folks don't know how to use them, as the fact that folks drive like self entitled wannabe first and don't give a darn about rules or safety. For them, the other person(s) is always the problem.

[fdpaq0580]

I have a card from the American Autoduelist Association that says "Drive Offensively, the life you save may be your own".

:)

At what cost to others? I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic.

[fdpaq0580]

No one has to give way to anyone in the roundabout, they are designed for continuous flow.
If you have to stop or give way in the roundabout, someone is in the wrong lane.
Entering the roundabout, give way to all lanes to your left, and only enter when both lanes are clear.
Done.

Saw a semi the other day that needed both lanes and part of the center to get to exit 3 for a pick up or delivery. Giving way or yielding is not a sign of weakness. Sometimes it shows intelligence, comprehension and compassion.

[BrianL99]

Wow, LOTS of them. I guess some people don't get out much.

By the way, other readers, rotary, roundabout, and traffic circle all mean the same thing:
Roundabout - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout)

That is incorrect. Other then they're both usually "circular and control traffic", they are different animals.

See attached.

[fdpaq0580]

That rule has been changed for some time now in France.
Entering gives way to the left, in line with the rest of Europe, or to the right in the UK.

But, we're not in France. Are wee? 🤔

[BrianL99]

I brought up the Long Beach traffic circle because your post claimed the very first roundabout (in the country is how I read it) was in MA. I was simply pointing out there was one wayyyy prior to the one in MA that was the first in the nation.

It appears either your post was vague (not clearly stating you meant the first roundabout build in MA) allowed me to misread you were stating the first (very first in the country) roundabout was in MA. I'll go 1/2 your vagueness error plus 1/2 my misread error.

I edited it, to make it clearer.

MA was first in a lot of things, but not building roundabouts.

In that department, they were probably behind everyone, other than maybe VT & ME.

[ElDiabloJoe]

I edited it, to make it clearer.

MA was first in a lot of things, but not building roundabouts.

In that department, they were probably behind everyone, other than maybe VT & ME.Cool, thanks. As far as MA goes, they were the first to land a ship onshore. Think they got a rock there named for it ;-)

[Two Bills]

Saw a semi the other day that needed both lanes and part of the center to get to exit 3 for a pick up or delivery. Giving way or yielding is not a sign of weakness. Sometimes it shows intelligence, comprehension and compassion.

If someone is daft enough to pull alongside a semi maneuvering at any junction, they deserve what they get.
Big, wins.

[donfey]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

There are three types of drivers here: Full time Villagers, Snowbirds, visitors/guests. None of these groups can claim to be all "good drivers." That our well-marked roundabouts continue to baffle (supposedly) experienced drivers continues to amaze me.

[Danube]

That is incorrect. Other then they're both usually "circular and control traffic", they are different animals.

See attached.

I was a transportation planner for decades. State transportation dept, local agencies, consulting. I'm familiar with these traffic control systems.

Roundabout, traffic circle, rotary are just different names. Different places & people call these things different names.

Even Wikipedia says: "In U.S. dictionaries the terms roundabout, traffic circle, road circle and rotary are synonyms."
Roundabout - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout)

[Bogie Shooter]

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns right, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

////////

[djlnc]

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns right, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

.

You didn't mean that, did you?

[Bill14564]

You didn't mean that, did you?

No, not all. I’ll correct it now. Thank you for pointing it out.

[Hape2Bhr]

If someone is daft enough to pull alongside a semi maneuvering at any junction, they deserve what they get.
Big, wins.

Exactly what Dan Newlin counts on.

[fdpaq0580]

This conflict would be greatly reduced if there were fewer people. IMHO the roundabouts are way too crowded!

The world is "way too crowded". But that is a topic for another thread. We have to deal with what and who is here now.

[ElDiabloJoe]

The world is "way too crowded". But that is a topic for another thread. We have to deal with what and who is here now.

It's okay. The deluded believe climate change will solve the overpopulation issue for us.

[fdpaq0580]

Exactly what Dan Newlin counts on.

Post of the day!

[BrianL99]

I was a transportation planner for decades. State transportation dept, local agencies, consulting. I'm familiar with these traffic control systems.

Roundabout, traffic circle, rotary are just different names. Different places & people call these things different names.

Even Wikipedia says: "In U.S. dictionaries the terms roundabout, traffic circle, road circle and rotary are synonyms."
Roundabout - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout)

I'm sure you and Wikipedia is correct and the Federal Highway Administration is wrong and the Federal Highway Safety Manual, is baloney.

mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/part3c.htm

Chapter 1A - MUTCD 2009 Edition - FHWA - Transportation

HRT-06-047_Roundabouts - Federal Highway Administration

safety.fhwa.dot.gov/tools/data_tools/mirereport/126.cfm

mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part1/part1a.htm

mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/part3c.htm

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/learn-safety/noteworthy-practices/rotary-conversion-roundabout-reduces-speed-and-crashes

[Bearlythere]

[/B][/B]I edited it, to make it clearer.

MA was first in a lot of things, but not building roundabouts.

In that department, they were probably behind everyone, other than maybe VT & ME.

[Bearlythere]

Google Angola , Indiana Traffic circle built soon after civil war

[Sandabern]

Half the problem is people literally don’t know how to “stay in their lane” while in the RB…

[CybrSage]

Did you look up the American Autoduelist Association? I recommend looking it up. Add Steve Jackson to the search.

[gobuck827]

Yes and NO!

Yes, on some/many circles, both the inside lane and the outside lane may exit.

NO, traffic entering from the left/inside lane MUST NOT take the exit to the right (1st exit, 3 o'clock exit, right hand turn, whatever you want to call it).

Never say never.

[CybrSage]

Yes and NO!

Yes, on some/many circles, both the inside lane and the outside lane may exit.

NO, traffic entering from the left/inside lane MUST NOT take the exit to the right (1st exit, 3 o'clock exit, right hand turn, whatever you want to call it).

The traffic signs and road markings show that at some circles, both the lanes may exit at the first right.

A dashed line and two exit lanes, as well as the arrows on the sign, show this clearly.

Are the signs and road markings lying?

[CybrSage]

Everyone has issues understanding this because NEITHER LANE HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY! Neither lane *needs* the right of way if the simple, common sense directions are followed.

The only time right of way that comes into play is when yielding to traffic already in the circle - BOTH LANES. Don't enter when traffic is approaching or you could be hit. Don't enter when traffic is in the inside lane because that lane might be exiting and you could be hit. Simply yield to any/all traffic already in the circle or you could be hit.

Some of the signs clearly show lane 1 and 2 can both exit the circle at both the first and second exit. Two lanes leaving the circle are there to ensure this can happen.

How does the person in lane 1 stay in his exit lane if lane 2 is allowed to block the exit?

[JanRoberts]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

When the snowbirds are here there's just more of everything that's always here when they're not!

[dewilson58]

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

GREAT, now you are up to 80 posts on a RB thread in 2025.

:yuck:

[Wenham]

When the snowbirds are here there's just more of everything that's always here when they're not!

Except for groceries and parking.

[Normal]

And:road space, open restaurant seating, tee times and quietness.

[golfing eagles]

GREAT, now you are up to 80 posts on a RB thread in 2025.

:yuck:

sorry.

[Bill14564]

The traffic signs and road markings show that at some circles, both the lanes may exit at the first right.

A dashed line and two exit lanes, as well as the arrows on the sign, show this clearly.

Are the signs and road markings lying?

Which circle have a sign showing the innermost lane can take the first exit? What I *have* seen are single-lane circles where the *only* lane can exit right along with a right-lane bypass for the circle. The right traffic lane never enters the circle. I suspect the circle in the picture above is an example of that.

The lane markings are accurate yet deceiving at the same time. A vehicle in the inside lane approaching from the left may exit to your right, this is what the markings show. Traffic entering from the left lane into the inside lane is NOT allowed to take a right and follow that vehicle.

Don’t try to complicate things.

[Bill14564]

Some of the signs clearly show lane 1 and 2 can both exit the circle at both the first and second exit. Two lanes leaving the circle are there to ensure this can happen.

How does the person in lane 1 stay in his exit lane if lane 2 is allowed to block the exit?

Let’s get away from “some” and give the particular circle where this occurs. It isn’t Morse and 44 and it isn’t Hillsborough and Buena Vista. Where is it?

[fdpaq0580]

When the snowbirds are here there's just more of everything that's always here when they're not!

You don't see over crowding as a problem? Certainly there is more stress and anxiety. More cars, carts, bikes clogging the roads and parking lots. More people driving dangerously and irresponsibly. More drunks on the roads. More rudeness, pushieness, entitlement, dare I include dogs crapping in the neighbors yard, etc. Yep, you're right. More of the same crap. When does More become too much? One thing that there is less of is quality of life. Like an over crowded cruise ship, there is not enough personal space or quiet spots. But that is just my opinion.

[Keithtama]

One lane roundabout in Marstons Mills, Cape Cod near old Barnstable Fairgrounds.

[Bill14564]

Never say never.

Is that South Buena Vista at the circle with South Buena Vista (a traffic circle instead of a bend in the road)? The right lane never enters that circle. The left lane becomes the single/only lane in the circle. With only a single lane in the circle, that single lane can take any of the exits.

[Normal]

Which circle have a sign showing the innermost lane can take the first exit? What I *have* seen are single-lane circles where the *only* lane can exit right along with a right-lane bypass for the circle. The right traffic lane never enters the circle. I suspect the circle in the picture above is an example of that.

The lane markings are accurate yet deceiving at the same time. A vehicle in the inside lane approaching from the left may exit to your right, this is what the markings show. Traffic entering from the left lane into the inside lane is NOT allowed to take a right and follow that vehicle.

Don’t try to complicate things.

There are different circles with different rules. A newer driver may not realize that not every circle is the same and take for granted or generalize ,”What’s the same for traffic circle A is the same for the rest of them.”

Compounding the issue would be the dashed lines which give the option for two adjacent lanes to either maintain a straight forward bypass of an exit and also permit either lane to turn. Meggison and Morse have this. If an outside driver wishes to continue straight, they are in for a rude surprise if the inside lane driver decides to turn off to the right.

[Birdrm]

Where I grew up in NJ they had a roundabout (circle) where RT 1 split between highway and local and that was over 50 years ago!

[bopat]

What's an RB? Running Back? Roast Beef?
I see this: What does RB stand for? (https://www.abbreviations.com/Rb)

[Bill14564]

There are different circles with different rules. A newer driver may not realize that not every circle is the same and take for granted or generalize ,”What’s the same for traffic circle A is the same for the rest of them.”

Compounding the issue would be the dashed lines which give the option for two adjacent lanes to either maintain a straight forward bypass of an exit and also permit either lane to turn. Meggison and Morse have this. If an outside driver wishes to continue straight, they are in for a rude surprise if the inside lane driver decides to turn off to the right.

Meggison and Morse appears to be the same as the other circles around the Villages. I don’t drive it frequently so maybe I missed something. Which direction has the issue you are referring to? I’ll take a drive down there tomorrow to see what I am missing. But, if you are saying that if you disregard the sign and common sense then there could be an issue well, there is no surprise there.

[Bill14564]

What's an RB? Running Back? Roast Beef?
I see this: What does RB stand for? (https://www.abbreviations.com/Rb)

After 90 posts on this thread it is abundantly clear that RB stands for roast beef.

[Normal]

Meggison and Morse appears to be the same as the other circles around the Villages. I don’t drive it frequently so maybe I missed something. Which direction has the issue you are referring to? And, are you saying that if you disregard the sign and common sense then there could be an issue? Well, there is no surprise there.

I am referring to the conflict of lines and the signage associated to the entrance of Morse while traveling northwestward on Meggison. I believe the signage takes primary?

Other rules apply of course for instance the mandatory left lane entrance from Belle Mead toward Buena Vista if you wish to continue on in the circle to travel southward on Buena Vista.

[ElDiabloJoe]

What's an RB? Running Back? Roast Beef?
I see this: What does RB stand for? (https://www.abbreviations.com/Rb)

I've been reading this whole thread with the assumption (I know, I know) that RB stood for RoundaBout. Rounda. Bout. Seems to be correct for this thread.

FWIW- According to the search engine machine, the oldest US RoundaBout (R.B.) is the Columbus Circle in NYC (1903). The earlier post about one in Indiana or some mid-west spot dating back to the civil war may want to advise the search engine spiders.

The oldest (According to the same machine) may very well be that in Paris around the Arc de Triomphe.

Regardless, one thing is certain: Roundabouts drastically lower death and injury from collisions. They certainly do NOT lower the amount of accidents. In fact, they might increase them. However, the resulting injuries are drastically lower because the speeds within the roundabout are generally lower. So for traffic expediency and collision preventions they are not the greatest things. However, for death prevention and injury mitigation, they are like sliced bread.

[Bill14564]

I am referring to the conflict of lines and the signage associated to the entrance of Morse while traveling northwestward on Meggison. I believe the signage takes primary?

Other rules apply of course for instance the mandatory left lane entrance from Belle Mead toward Buena Vista if you wish to continue on in the circle to travel southward on Buena Vista.

The markings on Morse and Meggison are the same as the markings on circles throughout the Villages including the circle at Morse and O’Dell and the circle at Buena Vista and Stillwater.

The circle at Belle Meade and Buena Vista has only a single lane. The signage clearly shows the right lane from Belle Meade turns right and does not enter the circle while the left lane must enter the circle and cannot turn right.

[fdpaq0580]

I've been reading this whole thread with the assumption (I know, I know) that RB stood for RoundaBout. Rounda. Bout. Seems to be correct for this thread.

FWIW- According to the search engine machine, the oldest US RoundaBout (R.B.) is the Columbus Circle in NYC (1903). The earlier post about one in Indiana or some mid-west spot dating back to the civil war may want to advise the search engine spiders.

The oldest (According to the same machine) may very well be that in Paris around the Arc de Triomphe.

Regardless, one thing is certain: Roundabouts drastically lower death and injury from collisions. They certainly do NOT lower the amount of accidents. In fact, they might increase them. However, the resulting injuries are drastically lower because the speeds within the roundabout are generally lower. So for traffic expediency and collision preventions they are not the greatest things. However, for death prevention and injury mitigation, they are like sliced bread.

Guess I'll have to start buying sliced bread for my own safety. I killed myself 3 times in 2024 while slicing bread, not to mention the loss of 2 fingers and thumb of my left hand, 2 belly wounds and the end of my nose.

[bopat]

I have some better suggestions instead of RB:

1. CIRCLE - Community Intersection for Retired Citizens Living Enjoyably

2. PEACE - Pleasant Elderly Access Community Entrance

3. GRACE - Golden Retirement Access Circle for Everyone

4. PATH - Peaceful Access to Town for Homeowners

5. LIFE - Leisurely Intersection for Florida Elders

[fdpaq0580]

I have some better suggestions instead of RB:

1. CIRCLE - Community Intersection for Retired Citizens Living Enjoyably

2. PEACE - Pleasant Elderly Access Community Entrance

3. GRACE - Golden Retirement Access Circle for Everyone

4. PATH - Peaceful Access to Town for Homeowners

5. LIFE - Leisurely Intersection for Florida Elders

1 thru 4 are good. 5? There is no "leisurely" in our RR's.

[Dusty_Star]

For those who feel challenged by the roundabouts here in The Villages, try driving in France. In France, the laws are a little different, in that cars entering a roundabout have the right of way over vehicles already in the roundabout. Also, for a real adventure, try your hand at the one at the Arc de Triomphe, where 12 roads feed into and out of the roundabout!

Yes, I agree. In Paris did something wrong in a huge roundabout & got yelled at (everyone still moving) by a police car that was just like in the English comedies about France. A tiny car & seemingly 15 officers hanging out of the car waving their arms & yelling. We all then exited the roundabout & went our way. They apparently didn't want to pull anyone over, just give a few Gallic yells & arm waves.

But you know it works, I still don't know the infraction, but the reprimand stays with me. :)

[Bogie Shooter]

Think posts will top 150?

[Dusty_Star]

Cool, thanks. As far as MA goes, they were the first to land a ship onshore. Think they got a rock there named for it ;-)

Virginia might have an issue with that. (Jamestown)

Newfoundland definitely does. (L'Anse aux Meadows ~1000 AD)

[JMintzer]

Only on ToTV can a post about bad Mass drivers turn into (yet another) 100+ Round-About thread...

[golfing eagles]

Only on ToTV can a post about bad Mass drivers turn into (yet another) 100+ Round-About thread...

Of course it does. There are at least 100 WRONG WAYS to navigate a RB, and Villagers know all of them :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[fdpaq0580]

Of course it does. There are at least 100 WRONG WAYS to navigate a RB, and Villagers know all of them :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Just pushing the count to 105.

[Two Bills]

Yes, I agree. In Paris did something wrong in a huge roundabout & got yelled at (everyone still moving) by a police car that was just like in the English comedies about France. A tiny car & seemingly 15 officers hanging out of the car waving their arms & yelling. We all then exited the roundabout & went our way. They apparently didn't want to pull anyone over, just give a few Gallic yells & arm waves.

But you know it works, I still don't know the infraction, but the reprimand stays with me. :)

In Italy, just lean on horn is the prescribed method of clearing holdups, whether involved or not!
I love driving in France and Italy, no one really gives a toss about rules.

[fdpaq0580]

In Italy, just lean on horn is the prescribed method of clearing holdups, whether involved or not!
I love driving in France and Italy, no one really gives a toss about rules.

Automotive Anarchy! Just fine ..... as long as you don't have to share the road.
Then again, if there are no "rules", if there should be an incident, no law suits because everyone has the right of way. No fault insurance might do well there. Or not.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Virginia might have an issue with that. (Jamestown)

Newfoundland definitely does. (L'Anse aux Meadows ~1000 AD)
Well Newfoundland has Oak Island and its phenomenal pre-Columbus history. However, that is outside the U.S. Virgina's Jamestown... Ummm, where did they go? Croatan? I guess I should have clarified with continuous colonization of the U.S.

[fdpaq0580]

Did the Roman's (shouldn't that be Romen?) have some form of circular intersections? What about the Chinese? Maybe not even a human invention? Saw a nature show where ants were following others in a circle. They called it a "death spiral". But, maybe, it was traffic circle, ant style. How can we be sure?

[fdpaq0580]

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago [Massachusetts installed it's first roundabout, 10-15 years ago]. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Let's see if I understand.
A "rotary" is a circular intersection without defined lanes and no rules.
A "roundabout" is a circular intersection with lanes and rules that many ignore.
So, is it fair to say that they are the same, but different?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

LOL!

The only time i have gone sideways in my car on a clear dry day was at the Concord Rotary in MA. Came in a bit too hot. . .

But what does drive me crazy is when a rotary inside lane exits the rotary onto the right hand lane of the two lane exit road. . totally cutting off the outside lane making the same exit. . . Then I agree that Massholes don't know how to drive in rotaries

[BrianL99]

LOL!

The only time i have gone sideways in my car on a clear dry day was at the Concord Rotary in MA. Came in a bit too hot. . .

But what does drive me crazy is when a rotary inside lane exits the rotary onto the right hand lane of the two lane exit road. . totally cutting off the outside lane making the same exit. . . Then I agree that Massholes don't know how to drive in rotaries

That has now been changed, since the rotary changed to a Roundabout. I ended up in court, fight a surcharge on the exact situation you mentioned ... I won, but it was a struggle.

Just anecdotally. I once drove an Alfa Romeo Spider around the Concord Rotary, in reverse and clockwise. Seemed like the thing to do, after shutting down the bar at Alphonse's & then HoJo's.

[fdpaq0580]

Just anecdotally. I once drove an Alfa Romeo Spider around the Concord Rotary, in reverse and clockwise. Seemed like the thing to do, after shutting down the bar at Alphonse's & then HoJo's.

You're the man! 😵*💫 The insane man. Bet you thought it was awesome at the time, huh? 🙂🫠
If guardian angels do exist, I wonder how many would quit after you pulled other wacky stunts like that?

[BrianL99]

You're the man! 😵*💫 The insane man. Bet you thought it was awesome at the time, huh? 🙂🫠
If guardian angels do exist, I wonder how many would quit after you pulled other wacky stunts like that?

Luckily for our generation, YouTube and Cell Phone videos didn't exist.

[Billy1]

:a040:Its the right of way ambiguity that causes most of the problems, not lack of driving skill, or wrong-headed learning in Massachusetts.

At any exit the inner lane car could be getting off or going around, as could the outer lane car. The convention that one take the outer lane to go 1/4 or 1/2 way around and the inner lane to go 1/2 or 3/4 way around does not resolve this conflict. Nor do any of the posted driving rules.

And both cars are in the Roundabout.

This conflict would be greatly reduced if people used there directionals, but few do.

Survival makes one quickly learn that if you are in the outer lane you always assume the inner lane is getting off and yield. if fact most learn to not even enter the rotary if there is a car in the inner lane, because he is very likely to get off in front of you at your first exit (you are going to your second exit) and which he is fully entitled to do. But that is most of the few accidents that I have seen....inner lane getting off, outer lane going around.

[RustyandEthel]

In 1994 I drove a scooter across the country with my business partner Harry. The craziest part? It was just to return a woman’s suitcase.

[Bogie Shooter]

In 1994 I drove a scooter across the country with my business partner Harry. The craziest part? It was just to return a woman’s suitcase.

How many roundabouts did you encounter?

[golfing eagles]

How many roundabouts did you encounter?

Roundabouts, rotaries, or traffic circles? I hear that they serve sandwiches at the Indiana Rotary Club meetings, so that may be the first choice :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[fdpaq0580]

Luckily for our generation, YouTube and Cell Phone videos didn't exist.

Without YouTube and video as proof, folks just figure it never really happened. Like the time I scaled Mt. Everest in my underwear.😉🫠😊

[fdpaq0580]

Roundabouts, rotaries, or traffic circles? I hear that they serve sandwiches at the Indiana Rotary Club meetings, so that may be the first choice :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I like sandwiches. What kind are they? 😙😋😛

[BrianL99]

Without YouTube and video as proof, folks just figure it never really happened. Like the time I scaled Mt. Everest in my underwear.😉🫠😊

Shrinkage must have made it easier to hike.

[fdpaq0580]

Shrinkage must have made it easier to hike.

Let's just say that frozen parts break off easily. The pain didn't kick in till I got back to base camp.

PS; The two roundabouts ( called that as Sir Edmond described their location as "around and about" so far along the trail to the summit) run clockwise due to his English citizenship.

[golfing eagles]

I like sandwiches. What kind are they? 😙😋😛

It's the Midwest, so.......creamed corn and niblets on cornbread with a side of corn on the cob:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

Let's just say that frozen parts break off easily. The pain didn't kick in till I got back to base camp.

PS; The two roundabouts ( called that as Sir Edmond described their location as "around and about" so far along the trail to the summit) run clockwise due to his English citizenship.

And there was STILL a Villager driving the wrong way on it

[fdpaq0580]

It's the Midwest, so.......creamed corn and niblets on cornbread with a side of corn on the cob:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Perfect! Corny to the cob, that's for me. 😄🙃😉

[fdpaq0580]

And there was STILL a Villager driving the wrong way on it

Yes! You've been there, too. 😃

[BrianL99]

And there was STILL a Villager driving the wrong way on it

Yes! You've been there, too. 😃

No video necessary.

[fdpaq0580]

no video necessary.

😀😄😁😄 such fun!