Flood plain map definition - DeLuna

[djlnc]

We're interested in a house on Heather Way, but I'm concerned about the flood zones. The homes are on land built up several feet above the natural area. Is the flood zone on the map an approximation meant to show that the natural area is a flood zone, or is it actually meant to show that the flood zone extends on to the built up property around it as it appears in the picture?

Thanks

OK - I found a more accurate FEMA map and it does show the flood zone is confined to the natural area and does not extend into the homesites. Never mind.

[Altavia]

The map probably isn't that precise. I'd rely more on if your yard is as high as others not shown in the flood zone.

How close to the homes in that area did the water get last hurricane. We had about 12" of rain on top of full ponds/lakes.

[BrianL99]

The map probably isn't that precise. I'd rely more on if your yard is as high as others not shown in the flood zone.

How close to the homes in that area did the water get last hurricane. We had about 12" of rain on top of full ponds/lakes.


The determination of whether or not you're in a Flood Zone is not guesswork or "eyeballing". You are IN or you are OUT, based on the exact delineation, as shown on a USGS or FEMA Map.

You are in a Flood Zone, if your property is within the boundaries as shown here: FEMA Flood Map Service Center | Welcome! (https://msc.fema.gov/portal/home), unless and until you're shown paperwork, with an approval from FEMA, that the Flood Boundary has been modified by them.


We're interested in a house on Heather Way, but I'm concerned about the flood zones. The homes are on land built up several feet above the natural area. Is the flood zone on the map an approximation meant to show that the natural area is a flood zone, or is it actually meant to show that the flood zone extends on to the built up property around it as it appears in the picture?

Thanks

The attached is not an original FEMA Flood Map. If the actual FEMA map shows your house lot in a Flood Zone, it is in a Flood Zone.

The Flood Zone can be changed to reflect grading changes made by the builder/developer, but it can take some time and some paper work. You can also follow the FEMA process to change the Flood Designation, by submitting the proper documentation. Again, that can take some time. In the meantime, if you have a Mortgage, you'll probably need to buy Flood Insurance.

There are plenty of threads on the subject, here on TOTV.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/weather-talk-515/living-floodplain-353361/?highlight=Flood

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/buyers-beware-flooding-352826/?highlight=Flood

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/very-basic-insurance-question-351952/?highlight=Flood

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/question-how-eliminate-flood-insurance-348796/?highlight=Flood

[Spartan86]

Deleted

[CarlR33]

Brian’s information above is spot on. I am not sure why you are “concerned” unless you feel it’s going to hurt your resale or you’re going to flood during a storm? If you have a bank loan you most likely will be required to get flood insurance (could be $1K a year in addition to your regular insurance). I had the same issue backing up to a wetland area that was filled in to build the home. I went through the FEMA petition process submitting the survey I got from the home closing (FEMA outlines the required documents), etc. FEMA reduced my flood zone (hazard rating) based on my petition. During Helene the wetland in the back got fairly full but did not impact my yard.

[frayedends]

First off $1000 per month is on the low side but shop around. Second I’d assume Deluna has updated flood maps as it’s older than where I am in Lake Denham. That being said when we bought our house was in a flood zone and we were told the maps should be updated in a few months. We were t actually in a flood zone because the developer raised the land elevation. But without updated FEMA maps we still needed flood insurance. Over a year later the maps were still not updated. But then I found out from the bank (citizens first) that I could apply to have my single home updated using something called a LOMA or LOMC. It was a pain in the ass. The bank did provide some of the documents I needed. Others I had to find online. But after 90 days I got approval and no longer in a flood zone. No idea if the maps have been updated yet. The annoying thing is Citizens could have told me this the first year and saved me a grand for the second year.

[ohioshooter]

These were taken from my lanai. The first is the pond beside Heather Way at the NW corner of the development taken today. The second was taken during the last Hurricane.

[djlnc]

Yikes!

[ohioshooter]

Yikes!

I will say, to my knowledge no house was flooded. It would have had to rise another 3-4’ to get into our house. Although it looks pretty ominous across the way.

[Altavia]

These were taken from my lanai. The first is the pond beside Heather Way at the NW corner of the development taken today. The second was taken during the last Hurricane.

Thanks for the photos! We rode bikes through those areas after the hurricane and observed several home with water close to the lanais.

That area has very limited outflow from the lakes and only has the southern oaks golf course for excess water retention.

I'd get flood insurance in that areas no matter what the FEMA map indicates.

[Rocksnap]

I’ve been told 1000 times TV would not be able to build in a flood zone, unless they did something to take that designation off. And it would just take time for the designation to be removed. Until then, I had 2 flood insurance options from my insurance company, USAA. USAA does not itself carry flood insurance. But they did steer me to 2 available sources thru them. FEMA was one, a no name aftermarket company was the other. The difference between the two? No name has no garantee it will still be solvent, have the money, if the need ever presented itself. Both were the same price @ $1400 annually. My neighbor used Lloyds with a much lower cost, which I will look into when my 1 year policy is coming to an end. Hoping TV entices FEMA to change their maps soon.

[BrianL99]

So here's what no one's mention about Floods & Flood Zones.

"Floods" for purposes of insurance, are naturally occurring. They result from rain (or snow). Pure & simple, there's no other cause.

"Floods" in the real world, can occur from other issues.

The drainage system in The Villages and most places, has been engineered to direct "flood waters" to holding areas (Detention Basins), impoundments (Rentention Ponds) and other methods of controlling the water ... both from a volume & rate perspective. If all goes according to Hoyle, areas outside the Flood Plain, won't "flood".

As soon as there's a break in the chain ... a malfunction because a broken pipe or a drainage ditch or retaining wall was compromised, all bets are off. You now have a "flood" but it's not caused by rain, it's caused by failure of the system. An entirely different set of circumstances. For lack of a better term, that is no longer a "flood", but "water inundation".

So when dealing with insurance for areas subject to water inundation, be careful. All "floods" are not floods.

[USOTR]

This easiest thing to do is go toc the GIS map for the county your house is located in and then open the FEMA layer. This map is also good to see your property lines.

[frayedends]

I’ve been told 1000 times TV would not be able to build in a flood zone, unless they did something to take that designation off. And it would just take time for the designation to be removed. Until then, I had 2 flood insurance options from my insurance company, USAA. USAA does not itself carry flood insurance. But they did steer me to 2 available sources thru them. FEMA was one, a no name aftermarket company was the other. The difference between the two? No name has no garantee it will still be solvent, have the money, if the need ever presented itself. Both were the same price @ $1400 annually. My neighbor used Lloyds with a much lower cost, which I will look into when my 1 year policy is coming to an end. Hoping TV entices FEMA to change their maps soon.

As I said in my post above, you can have the designation removed yourself. I did it. Here is the text from the email Citizens sent me with some explanation on how to do it. Getting the documents is a bit of a pain. But 90 days later I didn't need flood insurance...


"Use the link below to apply for a LOMA. I have attached the survey and the elevation cert. (Citizens attached my survey and elevation but you can find them online. There are other docs you may need as you fill out the application).

Please read the information below carefully.



https://hazards.fema.gov/femaportal/onlinelomc/signin



You will need to create a profile, and I have attached the required documents. There will be no fee for the LOMA (Letter of Map Amendment).



LOMC application online : When FEMA asks if you placed fill on the land or plan to place fill, you need to answer NO. That’s the answer that will allow the FEMA system to select LOMA / NO FEE application. If you answer YES, then it defaults to the LOMR application, and will charge you and ask for the Community ACK



Upon receipt of the document indicating you are in a X zone, please forward the copy. We will order a new determination to show the X zone, and we can begin the process for the flood removal from escrow.

[Nana2Teddy]

We're interested in a house on Heather Way, but I'm concerned about the flood zones. The homes are on land built up several feet above the natural area. Is the flood zone on the map an approximation meant to show that the natural area is a flood zone, or is it actually meant to show that the flood zone extends on to the built up property around it as it appears in the picture?

Thanks

OK - I found a more accurate FEMA map and it does show the flood zone is confined to the natural area and does not extend into the homesites. Never mind.

Is this home facing the preserve? We live in DeLuna and though that’s a great location it has one issue that hopefully you were informed about. That area of the preserve is a rookery where thousands of birds (egrets, herons, ibises, etc) fly in every night and roost very noisily all night. Some homeowners there can even smell it from their backyards. They roost mostly in the shrubs, but a few are in the trees too. We live in another veranda neighborhood and walk over occasionally to watch them fly in for the night. It’s quite cool and fun to observe, but we’re glad we don’t live right next to it. If you’re looking at a home overlooking that area I highly recommend you go at sunset to see what you’ll be living with every night. Some locations on Heather will be better than others in relation to the rookery. Just do your due diligence.

We love DeLuna after 2+ years now, and it’s getting closer to being the central area of TV with easy golf cart rides to both northern and southern areas, plus so close to the 301 turnpike onramp for trips outside the bubble. No regrets other than missing Calif weather and family. 😊

[CarlR33]

First off $1000 per month is on the low side but shop around. Second I’d assume Deluna has updated flood maps as it’s older than where I am in Lake Denham. That being said when we bought our house was in a flood zone and we were told the maps should be updated in a few months. We were t actually in a flood zone because the developer raised the land elevation. But without updated FEMA maps we still needed flood insurance. Over a year later the maps were still not updated. But then I found out from the bank (citizens first) that I could apply to have my single home updated using something called a LOMA or LOMC. It was a pain in the ass. The bank did provide some of the documents I needed. Others I had to find online. But after 90 days I got approval and no longer in a flood zone. No idea if the maps have been updated yet. The annoying thing is Citizens could have told me this the first year and saved me a grand for the second year.The 1K I quoted is what it cost me so shop around (I don’t think Villagers do that enough). I don’t think the bank cares (it’s Citizens of course). Our Villages realtor informed me about the FEMA letter of map amendments (LOMA) process. I called FEMA when I had questions about my application and they were very helpful with the process and when I got my flood zone reduced it was immediately shown online. I would not call it a PIA but yes, something else to deal with for home ($$) ownership(I often say I should have just rented).

[virtue51]

If you are in a flood zone or next to a flood zone, I personally would look for a house in another location. The weather is changing and areas in the country that previously have not flooded are now experiencing flooding. Keep looking for a home -- there are thousands of homes.

[CarlR33]

If you are in a flood zone or next to a flood zone, I personally would look for a house in another location. The weather is changing and areas in the country that previously have not flooded are now experiencing flooding. Keep looking for a home -- there are thousands of homes.If in the Villages I would not necessarily agree or rule out a home for that reason. The Villages has a great plan for water management and it seems to work. FEMA does not know the land has been built up and unless you petition them with the proper paperwork it will not change. I would bet most all homes near a pond or preserve are listed in a FEMA flood zone which is the land most are trying to pay a premium for in the Viillages.

[goneil2024]

I have been involved with flood risks and related losses for over 45-years. From the posts so far I think it is important to separate some of the issues that appear to be conflated.

1) Flood insurance is required for federally backed loans located in the 100-year flood zone(s) and by extension most other lenders would typically require the coverage.

Lenders normally require flood insurance when the improvements constituting collateral for loan are situated in a special flood hazard area (SFHA) referred to as flood Zones A/V. Simply, these areas have a calculated (engineer, architect or surveyor) 1% chance of flooding each year. As a homeowner there is a cost associated with obtaining this required additional insurance.

2) According to FEMAs website over 30% of insured flood losses take place outside the 100-year flood Zones A/V. The fact is, that we are all subject to flooding, it’s simply the probability of being flooded that differs depending on the Zone, A/V, B, C, X, X-, etc. Mother Nature doesn’t always get the memo, and she doesn't stop flooding at the edge of the flood map line. Flooding (as defined in your insurance policy may not be what you think so read it) is based on the actual event and extent of flooding.

3) The federal flood insurance program and insurers that participate in the program may offer coverage for properties both in the 100-Year SFHA and outside the SFHA if their requirements are met. The insurance premiums for policies on properties outside the SFHA typically reflect the lower probability of loss and the mitigates, if any that are in place.

4) Risk Tolerance of the homeowner. Even if you are not required to purchase flood coverage by your lender it would be wise to consider it. To make an informed decision consult an engineer, insurance adviser or other professional to determine what your actual cost, risk, and Zone is. Also, consider the potential insured and uninsured cost of loss as well as your ability to self-fund a loss in the event of a flood as defined by your flood policy. The answer to this question will differ for every reader. I would hope a solution becomes obvious once you have all the information, and can answer the fundamental questions: a) what are the options and is coverage even available; b) can I afford to pay out of pocket for flood damage if my home is flooded?; c) what mitigates can I employ to reduce the extent of damage in the event of a flood and would this reduce/offset any premiums I might pay; d) Is there some way I can transfer the cost of funding a loss to others (by insurance)?

I would recommend Identifying, quantifying and making an informed decision about how to handle flood damage BEFORE a flood event occurs. After the event the range of options is very limited, and often very expensive.

The information here is simply my opinion, I recommend consulting with qualified finance, risk, insurance and legal professionals before making any decisions.

5) The various federal policies are defined by statute and you can review the exact policy terms and definition on the FEMA web site. Other flood policies may have different terms, conditions and exclusions so be sure to review what constitutes a ‘flood’ in the policy form.

[LianneMigiano]

These were taken from my lanai. The first is the pond beside Heather Way at the NW corner of the development taken today. The second was taken during the last Hurricane.OMG (to the 2nd picture)! I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night watching that water come so close to my beautiful home!

[BlueStarAirlines]

We're interested in a house on Heather Way, but I'm concerned about the flood zones. The homes are on land built up several feet above the natural area. Is the flood zone on the map an approximation meant to show that the natural area is a flood zone, or is it actually meant to show that the flood zone extends on to the built up property around it as it appears in the picture?

Just FYI....you'll get much better information from facebook groups (Deluna has their own) than this site if its regarding a specific neighborhood.

[BlueStarAirlines]

That area has very limited outflow from the lakes and only has the southern oaks golf course for excess water retention.


Incorrect.....not even close to being correct. For Deluna, it was discovered after the hurricane that the pipe for excess water retention that is located near the Deluna postal station was partially blocked. This pipe has the water exiting the preserve area between Pezullo and 301. This blocked the proper draining of the preserve behind Heather Way and surrounding streets.

[BlueStarAirlines]

Is this home facing the preserve? We live in DeLuna and though that’s a great location it has one issue that hopefully you were informed about. That area of the preserve is a rookery where thousands of birds (egrets, herons, ibises, etc) fly in every night and roost very noisily all night. Some homeowners there can even smell it from their backyards. They roost mostly in the shrubs, but a few are in the trees too. We live in another veranda neighborhood and walk over occasionally to watch them fly in for the night. It’s quite cool and fun to observe, but we’re glad we don’t live right next to it. If you’re looking at a home overlooking that area I highly recommend you go at sunset to see what you’ll be living with every night. Some locations on Heather will be better than others in relation to the rookery. Just do your due diligence.


We live very close to there and I think the bigger issue is all the folks that clog up the walking trail looking at the birds. We've even had a few bird watchers go through back yards, urinate behind the houses, leave trash, etc.

Noise from the birds are not an issue...

[Nana2Teddy]

We live very close to there and I think the bigger issue is all the folks that clog up the walking trail looking at the birds. We've even had a few bird watchers go through back yards, urinate behind the houses, leave trash, etc.

Noise from the birds are not an issue...
Interesting. I guess it’s a matter of what your noise tolerance is because when we are on the walking path alongside that area it’s very loud, though doesn’t bother us since we’re just passing through, lol. I’m guessing the double paned windows help buffer it when indoors, and likely the noise quiets down once they’re all settled in for the night. I’ve actually had a villager who lives on Heather Way and faces the preserve tell me in the DeLuna group that it can be quite stinky. When we are there we are always the only ones on the path (between preserve and large pond) except for the dog walkers out on their evening walks who just pass by. Have never seen crowds. Bummer you deal with such inconsiderate people.

[Cliff Fr]

Woe that's close