Roofing & OSHA in The Villages

[BrianL99]

I never paid much attention to roofing in TV, but I'm watching Skylight Roofing do a roofing job, right now.

6 guys on a roof, with no "Fall Protection". I've yet to hear a word of English being spoken, but that's only anecdotal and incidental.

How do these roofers get away with ignoring OSHA standards? 29 CFR 1926.501 mandates "fall protection" if you're on a roof, above 6' The only way to get around it, would be to have a site specific safety plan, that proves it's "safer not to provide fall protection" (a fairly difficult argument to make.

I can't believe their Worker's Comp Insurance Co. doesn't mandate proper safety protocols.

Happens to be a trigger point with me, as we're currently involved in a situation, where a worker fell from a roof. Worker's Comp has already paid out $272,000 and a 27 year old man, will never work again. Lucky for us, we had insurance, fall protection was in place and the worker was wearing a safety harness. Unlucky for him, the harness failed.

[CarlR33]

Brian, sorry to hear this and not uncommon in the residential roofing industry across the country. I would suggest you contact the (edited) Tampa OSHA office if you want to. I do occupational safety for a living so it does pain me to see individuals and companies act in this manner. I was told by the OSHA Midwest office this is not a high priority compliance issue for them so good luck maybe the (edited) Tampa office feels differently.
Access Denied (https://www.osha.gov/contactus/bystate/FL/areaoffice)

[BrianL99]

Brian, sorry to hear this and not uncommon in the residential roofing industry across the country. I would suggest you contact the Orlando OSHA office if you want to. I do occupational safety for a living so it does pain me to see individuals and companies act in this manner. I was told by the OSHA Midwest office this is not a high priority compliance issue for them so good luck maybe the Orlando office feels differently.
Access Denied (https://www.osha.gov/contactus/bystate/FL/areaoffice)

Apparently Tampa is the OSHA office for Sumter County.

I'm sure it's not a high priority, but I happen to think business owners' have the obligation and duty to protect their workers, to the best of their ability. Everyone in the construction industry knows accidents can happen, but to knowingly put workers at risk, is unconscionable in my opinion. With what they're charging to replace a roof in TV these days, they should be able to do it right and do it safely.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

[asianthree]

I never paid much attention to roofing in TV, but I'm watching Skylight Roofing do a roofing job, right now.

6 guys on a roof, with no "Fall Protection". I've yet to hear a word of English being spoken, but that's only anecdotal and incidental.

So first sentence the name of the company.

Next you point out language concerns of not hearing “English”

Finally Followed by OSHA concerns.

Would it be appropriate to call the office of the company, to voice your concerns, since you have first hand experience of injury due to faulty harness equipment?

Then again I have the same worries about English not spoken, when I enter a room. Our kids fluently speaking, French, Hispanic, Cantonese, or German.

Pretty sure they don’t want I’ve fixed for lunch, and don’t want to hurt my feelings. They do come in handy at ethnic restaurants and traveling in Europe and Montreal.

[vintageogauge]

Take a look at the roofs being put on new builds, same thing there.

[Stu from NYC]

They should have some protection.

Years ago folks building skyscrapers no protection anywhere so we have made progress.

[gorillarick]

I never paid much attention to roofing in TV, but I'm watching Skylight Roofing do a roofing job, right now.

6 guys on a roof, with no "Fall Protection". I've yet to hear a word of English being spoken, but that's only anecdotal and incidental.

How do these roofers get away with ignoring OSHA standards? 29 CFR 1926.501 mandates "fall protection" if you're on a roof, above 6' The only way to get around it, would be to have a site specific safety plan, that proves it's "safer not to provide fall protection" (a fairly difficult argument to make.

I can't believe their Worker's Comp Insurance Co. doesn't mandate proper safety protocols.

Happens to be a trigger point with me, as we're currently involved in a situation, where a worker fell from a roof. Worker's Comp has already paid out $272,000 and a 27 year old man, will never work again. Lucky for us, we had insurance, fall protection was in place and the worker was wearing a safety harness. Unlucky for him, the harness failed.


Yeah, I spent my career in industry - weekly safety meetings, lectures, classes. I can't believe absolutely no one wears eye protection here. Workers, both private (miniscule) companies, and TV contractors/employees using blowers, power tools, etc. etc.
And hearing protection? Unheard of.

ps: great quote from one of the wisest, one of the very few wise.

[retiredguy123]

OSHA doesn't really enforce their safety rules anymore. They have been underfunded for many years. Safety rules with no funding to enforce them are pretty much worthless.

When I worked in construction for the Army Corps of Engineers, we had a safety manual, and any employee could shut down a project immediately for a violation. That really got some quick action from the contractor.

[mraines]

Yeah, I spent my career in industry - weekly safety meetings, lectures, classes. I can't believe absolutely no one wears eye protection here. Workers, both private (miniscule) companies, and TV contractors/employees using blowers, power tools, etc. etc.
And hearing protection? Unheard of.

ps: great quote from one of the wisest, one of the very few wise.
I have macular degeneration and virtually one eye. I ride a bike around here and wear protective glasses. I agree, the landscapers don't wear any protection. One rock can become a missile and a lost eye.

[SkylightRoofing]

I won’t go into a long rebuttal regarding our 80K homes we replaced as W-2, Workman Comp, OSHA-10 compliance, Etc. What I will tell you is that anything under 6/12 is not guidelines as a harness-in, anything above is mandatory and we have 50k photos to share with you over just the last 8 years if you need evidence as a Villager and a person who actually has to create a post.

I do understand the nature of your query as you have been bitten or a friend. Here in The Villages, all liability lands on us as we are 22 million liability just on entry to driveway…So yes, fully liable. We have been here for two decades, so feel free to contact us to discuss maybe before you point a finger on regulations (FL 2025) that we follow very closely.

Thank you neighbor.

I never paid much attention to roofing in TV, but I'm watching Skylight Roofing do a roofing job, right now.

6 guys on a roof, with no "Fall Protection". I've yet to hear a word of English being spoken, but that's only anecdotal and incidental.

How do these roofers get away with ignoring OSHA standards? 29 CFR 1926.501 mandates "fall protection" if you're on a roof, above 6' The only way to get around it, would be to have a site specific safety plan, that proves it's "safer not to provide fall protection" (a fairly difficult argument to make.

I can't believe their Worker's Comp Insurance Co. doesn't mandate proper safety protocols.

Happens to be a trigger point with me, as we're currently involved in a situation, where a worker fell from a roof. Worker's Comp has already paid out $272,000 and a 27 year old man, will never work again. Lucky for us, we had insurance, fall protection was in place and the worker was wearing a safety harness. Unlucky for him, the harness failed.

[mrf6969]

Make the call Brian. Brent is a great guy and great professional in his field.

[Stu from NYC]

I won’t go into a long rebuttal regarding our 80K homes we replaced as W-2, Workman Comp, OSHA-10 compliance, Etc. What I will tell you is that anything under 6/12 is not guidelines as a harness-in, anything above is mandatory and we have 50k photos to share with you over just the last 8 years if you need evidence as a Villager and a person who actually has to create a post.

I do understand the nature of your query as you have been bitten or a friend. Here in The Villages, all liability lands on us as we are 22 million liability just on entry to driveway…So yes, fully liable. We have been here for two decades, so feel free to contact us to discuss maybe before you point a finger on regulations (FL 2025) that we follow very closely.

Thank you neighbor.

Hi. What is 6/12?

[ton80]

6/12 is the roof pitch. 6 inches is the roof rise over the span of 12 inches. The Villages roofs are more like a rise of 3 or 4 inches over the span of 12 inches. If the rule is safety harness if 6/12 or higher, the roof was not subject to mandatory safety harness.

My last house in NC was 3 stories and 12/12 roof so when the the roof was replaced all workers wore safety harnesses

[BrianL99]

I won’t go into a long rebuttal regarding our 80K homes we replaced as W-2, Workman Comp, OSHA-10 compliance, Etc. What I will tell you is that anything under 6/12 is not guidelines as a harness-in, anything above is mandatory and we have 50k photos to share with you over just the last 8 years if you need evidence as a Villager and a person who actually has to create a post.

I do understand the nature of your query as you have been bitten or a friend. Here in The Villages, all liability lands on us as we are 22 million liability just on entry to driveway…So yes, fully liable. We have been here for two decades, so feel free to contact us to discuss maybe before you point a finger on regulations (FL 2025) that we follow very closely.

Thank you neighbor.

The nature of my query, is why roofing companies (& other contractors) in The Villages, believe they're not subject to the same federal safety standards, as I and other large commercial contractors are.

I'd be happy to post photos and video of your crew doing a roofing job, without fall protection.

Feel free to check the OSHA Regulations which are Federal and apply to Florida:
Access Denied (https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1926/1926.501)

[Bogie Shooter]

My opinion. Before posting an accusation about any business you should call/visit the business for an explanation of your concern.

[BrianL99]

6/12 is the roof pitch. 6 inches is the roof rise over the span of 12 inches. The Villages roofs are more like a rise of 3 or 4 inches over the span of 12 inches. If the rule is safety harness if 6/12 or higher, the roof was not subject to mandatory safety harness.

My last house in NC was 3 stories and 12/12 roof so when the the roof was replaced all workers wore safety harnesses


The OSHA rule as it applies, is "absolute height" (6') with some consideration given to "pitch", as to how & what "fall protection" protocol applies.

ChatGPT isn't always right, but in this case, it's close to 99% accurate in my opinion.

According to OSHA’s fall protection standard (29 CFR 1926.501), if you are working on a flat roof that is 7 feet off the ground, fall protection is required.

Required Fall Protection for a Flat Roof at 7 Feet

Since the work is above 6 feet, OSHA requires one of the following fall protection methods:
1. Personal Fall Arrest System (PFAS)
• Includes a full-body harness, lanyard, and anchor point rated for fall protection.
2. Guardrail System
• A standard railing (42 inches high) along all unprotected edges.
• Must have a top rail, mid-rail, and toe board if materials could fall off the edge.
3. Safety Net System
• Nets placed as close as possible to the working surface to catch falling workers.
4. Warning Line System + Safety Monitor (For Roofing Work Only)
• A warning line (set at least 6 feet from the roof edge) made of ropes, chains, or barriers.

[Stu from NYC]

6/12 is the roof pitch. 6 inches is the roof rise over the span of 12 inches. The Villages roofs are more like a rise of 3 or 4 inches over the span of 12 inches. If the rule is safety harness if 6/12 or higher, the roof was not subject to mandatory safety harness.

My last house in NC was 3 stories and 12/12 roof so when the the roof was replaced all workers wore safety harnesses

Thank you

[gorillarick]

My home in TV is 6/12 ( 26.57 degrees from horizontal). I feel pretty safe on it.
Seems to be the norm in this area.

[VAtoFLA]

Let's not get this thread closed down. Both @BrianL99 and @SkylightRoofing are being professional and courteous in their disagreement. I am interested and learning and would like to see it come to a conclusion even if that's just an agreement to disagree.

Current question as I see it is to @SkylightRoofing. Is there a reason that 29 CFR 1926.501 does not apply in your case for roof's above 6 feet regardless of pitch?

[MandoMan]

Yeah, I spent my career in industry - weekly safety meetings, lectures, classes. I can't believe absolutely no one wears eye protection here. Workers, both private (miniscule) companies, and TV contractors/employees using blowers, power tools, etc. etc.
And hearing protection? Unheard of.

ps: great quote from one of the wisest, one of the very few wise.

I’ve noticed that the grounds crew in The Villages working on lawns and such wear hearing and eye protection when mowing, blowing, etc. Also, pretty much all of them seem to keep almost all skin covered all year ‘round, to protect from skin cancer, I suppose. They also wear highly-visible shirts and use traffic cones.

[Cuervo]

Look I had my roof redone a few months ago and they did a good job. I've seen a number of different companies in the area and the one thing they all have in common is there are no safety protections in place and most of workers do not speak English.
Now are these people doing the work here legally, I do not have a clue, but roofing like most business in this country, profit is the motivation. So, if they have to skirt a few precautions or turn a blind eye who their employees are to meet their goal they will do so.
Surprise, Surprise!

[Heytubes]

Years ago I owned a skylight business in Atlanta and we, including myself, only wore fall protection on government jobs. Working on 10/12 and 12/12 pitch roofs we had cougar paw shoes and 2by4’s, except for metal roofs where we used fall protection. We’ve tripped many times over the lines than not when having to work around the penetrations. Also, foam rubber was a great comfort. These roofs in Florida make me envy the roofers that have very little pitch to deal with.

[Andyb]

Brian, sorry to hear this and not uncommon in the residential roofing industry across the country. I would suggest you contact the (edited) Tampa OSHA office if you want to. I do occupational safety for a living so it does pain me to see individuals and companies act in this manner. I was told by the OSHA Midwest office this is not a high priority compliance issue for them so good luck maybe the (edited) Tampa office feels differently.
Access Denied (https://www.osha.gov/contactus/bystate/FL/areaoffice)
Contacting OSHA will raise roof prices and delay jobs. You will not be liked after that. Just saying.

[Rocksnap]

I’ve ALWAYS seen safety harnesses on the guys when installing roof trusses. But no harness on our lightly pitched roofs once the plywood sheathing goes down. Makes total sense.
Remember the acting Secret Service Kimberly Cheadle lying under oath in front of the PA Committee of the assassination attempt at the rally in Butler, PA? When she said no agents on the roof where the shooter was, as it was too steep and not safe? It was about a 2/12 slope? Almost non existent.

[ithos]

Stats from 2022.

Residential roofing contractors experienced 33 fatal injuries, a 6.5% increase from 2021. The data shows 27 of those deaths were caused by a fall, trip or slip – nearly 82%.
Roofing Has Second Highest Workplace Fatality Rate in the U.S. | Roofing Contractor (https://www.roofingcontractor.com/articles/99010-roofing-has-second-highest-workplace-fatality-rate-in-the-us?utm_source=chatgpt.com)

But is the solution to implement regulations that would significantly reduce productivity which may result in additional unintended consequences?

[Safety Ranger]

I was a 30 year Occupational Safety and Health Specialist as well, and FP was my pet peeve... Workers way underestimate the possible consequences from a fall from heights.. (and neither do their employers).

[kkingston57]

I never paid much attention to roofing in TV, but I'm watching Skylight Roofing do a roofing job, right now.

6 guys on a roof, with no "Fall Protection". I've yet to hear a word of English being spoken, but that's only anecdotal and incidental.

How do these roofers get away with ignoring OSHA standards? 29 CFR 1926.501 mandates "fall protection" if you're on a roof, above 6' The only way to get around it, would be to have a site specific safety plan, that proves it's "safer not to provide fall protection" (a fairly difficult argument to make.

I can't believe their Worker's Comp Insurance Co. doesn't mandate proper safety protocols.

Happens to be a trigger point with me, as we're currently involved in a situation, where a worker fell from a roof. Worker's Comp has already paid out $272,000 and a 27 year old man, will never work again. Lucky for us, we had insurance, fall protection was in place and the worker was wearing a safety harness. Unlucky for him, the harness failed.

Bet that none of the installers is a direct employee of the roofer and is sub contracted out.

[coleprice]

Before signing a contract to have a construction project performed on your property, you should/MUST check the contract to ensure that the Contractor has Insurance, including but not limited to Workmans Comp and Liability. Also, the Contractor should indemnify you and hold you harmless should someone be injured on your property. These protections shouldn't be an issue since you have no control over the work being performed and/or the Workers. Your home owner's insurance should never have to pay a penny if you have the foregoing protections unless someone is injured on your property and the Contractor goes out of business and their insurance fails to cover an event.

[BrianL99]

Bet that none of the installers is a direct employee of the roofer and is sub contracted out.

In this particular case, there we a number of vehicles at the site, with the roofing company logo on the trucks.

I don't know about Florida, but in most states, a Contractor is responsible for the actions of his sub-contractors.

[jjombrello]

And have you ever seen a golf course worker wearing a hard hat? Golf balls can be fatal missiles, yet the workers go unprotected whether mowing or working sand traps.

[MaryMS]

Problem is the roofers may be undocumented workers who need their jobs. If the company gets cited, what happens to the workers?

[jimjamuser]

Yeah, I spent my career in industry - weekly safety meetings, lectures, classes. I can't believe absolutely no one wears eye protection here. Workers, both private (miniscule) companies, and TV contractors/employees using blowers, power tools, etc. etc.
And hearing protection? Unheard of.

ps: great quote from one of the wisest, one of the very few wise.
The riding lawnmowers used by the professionals are very loud and most do NOT wear ear protectors. So, in the future they will be less productive citizens. Also, because the houses are close together, the home owners get irritated by the loud noise. In an IDEAL community, the professional lawnmowers would either have large, quiet mufflers or be Electric and battery powered.

[jimjamuser]

Look I had my roof redone a few months ago and they did a good job. I've seen a number of different companies in the area and the one thing they all have in common is there are no safety protections in place and most of workers do not speak English.
Now are these people doing the work here legally, I do not have a clue, but roofing like most business in this country, profit is the motivation. So, if they have to skirt a few precautions or turn a blind eye who their employees are to meet their goal they will do so.
Surprise, Surprise!
Safety regulations are for the good of the people working - so that they do NOT fall off of a roof. Also, the regulations are for the good of ALL society because people with permanent disabilities cost the Government and every taxpayer. Ideally, a healthy workforce SHOULD BE a benefit for ALL of America. Without adherence to laws and safety the US just becomes a 2nd class country.

[retiredguy123]

Problem is the roofers may be undocumented workers who need their jobs. If the company gets cited, what happens to the workers?
If they are undocumented, they shouldn't be working.

[jimjamuser]

Bet that none of the installers is a direct employee of the roofer and is sub contracted out.
Would that be a way to get around the law?

[retiredguy123]

Would that be a way to get around the law?
No, it is against the law. The roofer needs a permit, and he/she is responsible for all workers performing the work.

[jimjamuser]

And have you ever seen a golf course worker wearing a hard hat? Golf balls can be fatal missiles, yet the workers go unprotected whether mowing or working sand traps.
Basically, safety rules SHOULD be followed to protect the worker and to keep insurance cost down from lawsuits.

[jimjamuser]

Problem is the roofers may be undocumented workers who need their jobs. If the company gets cited, what happens to the workers?
Another question is what happens in the near future?

[asianthree]

Another question is what happens in the near future?

No worries the law to hire young children for work is changing, to replace those removed.

No worries a 14-15yo has better coordination they’ll be quick to grab something before they fall off the roof. I was on a roof by age 12. I was skilled on rough carpentry and drywall by the age of 10

[JRcorvette]

I never paid much attention to roofing in TV, but I'm watching Skylight Roofing do a roofing job, right now.

6 guys on a roof, with no "Fall Protection". I've yet to hear a word of English being spoken, but that's only anecdotal and incidental.

How do these roofers get away with ignoring OSHA standards? 29 CFR 1926.501 mandates "fall protection" if you're on a roof, above 6' The only way to get around it, would be to have a site specific safety plan, that proves it's "safer not to provide fall protection" (a fairly difficult argument to make.

I can't believe their Worker's Comp Insurance Co. doesn't mandate proper safety protocols.

Happens to be a trigger point with me, as we're currently involved in a situation, where a worker fell from a roof. Worker's Comp has already paid out $272,000 and a 27 year old man, will never work again. Lucky for us, we had insurance, fall protection was in place and the worker was wearing a safety harness. Unlucky for him, the harness failed.

These roofs are fairly low pitch and one story. I don’t know what OSHA’s rule is but up in East TN they are on 10/12 & 12/12 two story roofs with no fall protection.