More people are coming to use our facilities that we pay for

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What an insane waste of time and money to keep out the small fraction of 1% of people from using our facilities.

1%? Okay let's roll with that. There are around 150,000 people who live in The Villages. Let's pretend that 50,000 of them are snowbirds, leaving us with only 100,000 full time residents. 1% of that number would be 1000 people.

Please let us know where your neighborhood's closest rec center and pool are. We can invite that 1000 people there, and they can stay away from everywhere else. Y'know, since it's just 1%, and keeping them out is an insane waste of time and money.

[Teed_Off]

1%? Okay let's roll with that. There are around 150,000 people who live in The Villages. Let's pretend that 50,000 of them are snowbirds, leaving us with only 100,000 full time residents. 1% of that number would be 1000 people.

Please let us know where your neighborhood's closest rec center and pool are. We can invite that 1000 people there, and they can stay away from everywhere else. Y'know, since it's just 1%, and keeping them out is an insane waste of time and money.
Well using your math that would be 3 people per day across nearly 100 recreation facilities!
I agree that everyone should do more to prevent scofflaws from using the facilities that we pay for but recognize that the cost of many proposals will probably outweigh the benefits.

[Bill14564]

1%? Okay let's roll with that. There are around 150,000 people who live in The Villages. Let's pretend that 50,000 of them are snowbirds, leaving us with only 100,000 full time residents. 1% of that number would be 1000 people.

Please let us know where your neighborhood's closest rec center and pool are. We can invite that 1000 people there, and they can stay away from everywhere else. Y'know, since it's just 1%, and keeping them out is an insane waste of time and money.

But those 1,000 people don’t travel in a herd any more than the 100,000 do. Yeah, 1% of 100,000 is a big number but 1% of the 30 people in your pool today is a little less than 1/3 of a person. So let’s say one person every three days or 100 people total I’m the course of the entire year.

Are you ready for you amenity fee to go up $16 this year rather than $6 to keep that 1/3 of a person out of the pool tomorrow? Some will say yes while others will say even $6 is too much.

[tophcfa]

What an insane waste of time and money to keep out the small fraction of 1% of people from using our facilities.

As an ammenity fee paying resident, it would be well worth it to me if I showed up at a sports pool to swim some laps and one of those 1% was taking up the last available lane. If that happened, it wouldn’t be the first time.

[asianthree]

As an ammenity fee paying resident, it would be well worth it to me if I showed up at a sports pool to swim some laps and one of those 1% was taking up the last available lane. If that happened, it wouldn’t be the first time.

You must be at one regional center that doesn’t have 10 people in line 30 minutes before open. Each person I’d scanned before entering. I swam at 4 sites, since 2010, only once was Id not scanned, because of malfunction. However ID’s were still checked. Water sports are far more brutal to acquire a spot that open swim

Since guest aren’t allowed at sports pools and most swim 30-40 minutes. Didn’t take long to acquire a lane to get 2 miles in every morning. Bunch of lanes open at that 50 degree temp

[tophcfa]

You must be at one regional center that doesn’t have 10 people in line 30 minutes before open. Each person I’d scanned before entering. I swam at 4 sites, since 2010, only once was Id not scanned, because of malfunction. However ID’s were still checked. Water sports are far more brutal to acquire a spot that open swim

Since guest aren’t allowed at sports pools and most swim 30-40 minutes. Didn’t take long to acquire a lane to get 2 miles in every morning. Bunch of lanes open at that 50 degree temp

I’m not a morning person, so I can’t speak for ID checking for lap swimming during the early morning lap swimming window (dawn until when the organized group activities begin). I mostly swim during the late afternoon/evening window when the group activities end for the day. In 10 years, and probably about 1,000 times swimming laps at the various sports pools (during both open swim and lap swim times), I could count on both hands the times my ID was checked. The only times my ID has ever been checked were either during COVID, when the pools were reopened to a very limited amount of people, or if I showed up when a group activity was still going on because I got there early enough to lay claim on a swim lane knowing they would immediately fill up when the class ended. They seem to almost always check ID’s for organized activities like water volleyball or exercise classes, but never for either dedicated open swim (half the pool for lap swimming and half for water walkers) or lap swimming time. Over the years, I have witnessed many people using the sports pools who I highly doubt were Villages residents and over 30 years old. Perhaps on rare occasion my intuition was wrong, but typically it’s very obvious, and some openly admit it like they are proud of what they are getting away with. I would be totally in favor of some kind of a gated system, where the only way possible to enter the facility would be by having to scan a valid ID.

[Altavia]

Are the MMPs public?

If not, is there an agreement in place that permits reciprocal usage between Middleton and the Villages?

[Bill14564]

Are the MMPs public?

If not, is there an agreement in place that permits reciprocal usage between Middleton and the Villages?

I suspect the MMPs are equivalent to a sidewalk in that respect. They are "owned" and maintained by the various CDDs but they are provided for the use of the public.

There is a welcome to Middleton sign along the road but there is no gate, no checkpoint, no speed bump, not even a painted line on the MMP to let you know where the border is.

[golfing eagles]

What an insane waste of time and money to keep out the small fraction of 1% of people from using our facilities.

Again, I have to ask, what percentage/number of freeloading trespassers and potential troublemakers ARE you willing to tolerate? For me, the number is ZERO, as in ZERO tolerance. In general, I have found that zero tolerance policies tend to be the most effective, whether it be in public gathering, schools, or the workplace.

Also, please realize, that if no effort is made to keep these people out, their number will only grow as word gets around that there is no problem stealing our amenities, especially with all the new apartment buildings going up. Get the zero-tolerance message out and numbers will dwindle.

Full disclosure: In over 11 years I have never used a pool here, but I do side with the 80-year-old ladies who are apprehensive when young non-villagers invade our pools.

[golfing eagles]

I suspect the MMPs are equivalent to a sidewalk in that respect. They are "owned" and maintained by the various CDDs but they are provided for the use of the public.

There is a welcome to Middleton sign along the road but there is no gate, no checkpoint, no speed bump, not even a painted line on the MMP to let you know where the border is.

I don't believe they are for use by the GENERAL public, just Villages residents. And there probably is an agreement for Middleton resident to use the MMPs

[Bill14564]

I don't believe they are for use by the GENERAL public, just Villages residents. And there probably is an agreement for Middleton resident to use the MMPs

It is difficult to get a non-Villages golf cart to the MMPs but it is not at all difficult for a non-resident, non-guest to walk or bike to a MMP or to get a LSV to a MMP. Does your zero tolerance policy extend to checkpoints on the MMP to ensure only ID'd Villagers and guests are walking or biking on them?

Does the zero tolerance policy extend to roadblocks where the MMPs meet the county roads to check for golf cart speed settings? How about zero tolerance for exceeding the 35mph speed limit on Morse and Buena Vista? Otherwise, what percentage/number of freeloading trespassers and potential troublemakers are YOU willing to tolerate?

Also, those zero tolerance policies are going to require quite the buildup of the police force - something I've seen argued for and against in other threads.

[golfing eagles]

It is difficult to get a non-Villages golf cart to the MMPs but it is not at all difficult for a non-resident, non-guest to walk or bike to a MMP or to get a LSV to a MMP. Does your zero tolerance policy extend to checkpoints on the MMP to ensure only ID'd Villagers and guests are walking or biking on them?

Does the zero tolerance policy extend to roadblocks where the MMPs meet the county roads to check for golf cart speed settings? How about zero tolerance for exceeding the 35mph speed limit on Morse and Buena Vista? Otherwise, what percentage/number of freeloading trespassers and potential troublemakers are YOU willing to tolerate?

Also, those zero tolerance policies are going to require quite the buildup of the police force - something I've seen argued for and against in other threads.

Nice post but COMPLETELY out of context. I was not referring to MMPs or the roads with the zero-tolerance post, just pools, golf courses and rec center facilities. Morse and BV. like most roads ARE public. There probably are some outsiders using the MMPs, but if we have zero tolerance on amenities, just why would they use them? To go where? The entertainment at the squares, maybe, but not worth the long cart ride from outside TV when a car would be easier.

[Normal]

Are you willing to pay more in amenity fees to pay people to drive around and check IDs?

Yes, absolutely willing.

[HappyTraveler]

What an insane waste of time and money to keep out the small fraction of 1% of people from using our facilities.
Agreed. It's an astonishing amount of energy being spent on this thread that will not result in any relevant, or actually needed, changes at this point. Cooler heads don't get out of bed for 1% of anything (or even double that).

The easiest assist on this is for the phone number(s) to be provided widely to report any suspected interlopers and let TV management/employees handle it.

Next.....

[biker1]

There isn’t any “paying more in amenities for people to drive around checking IDs”. The amenities fee increases are tied to the CPI. If more people were to be hired to check ID’s then something else would receive less funding.


Yes, absolutely willing.

[Normal]

There isn’t any “paying more in amenities for people to drive around checking IDs”. The amenities fee increases are tied to the CPI. If more people were to be hired to check ID’s then something else would receive less funding.

Just tack the cost on across the 150 k residents and have ID checkers a full time job like community Watch is.

[Bill14564]

Just tack the cost on across the 150 k residents and have ID checkers a full time job like community Watch is.

Just run the math in that like I did several pages ago. It’s only 70,000 or so homes (amenity fee) and hiring will be an issue.

[Normal]

Just run the math in that like I did several pages ago. It’s only 70,000 or so homes (amenity fee) and hiring will be an issue.

10 dollars a home would bring in 700k a month for funding. Very realistic for a budget. Many retirees wouldn’t mind the extra cash flow for working a few peak hours once or twice a week. They could focus on the pools and pickleball courts. Have them cover the 4 zones in random fashion. If they catch someone violating the law “theft of services” they could get bonuses.

[biker1]

There is no "just tacking the cost ...". The amenities' fee cannot be arbitrarily raised. If you hire additional people then the cost comes out of something else in the amenities' budget. I'm not saying this should not be done; maybe additional people should be hired. However, there is no free lunch. What are you suggesting that should be cut in the amenities' budget?

Just tack the cost on across the 150 k residents and have ID checkers a full time job like community Watch is.

[biker1]

That is about 5% of the amenities' budget. Good luck with that.

10 dollars a home would bring in 700k a month for funding. Very realistic for a budget. Many retirees wouldn’t mind the extra cash flow for working a few peak hours once or twice a week. They could focus on the pools and pickleball courts. Have them cover the 4 zones in random fashion. If they catch someone violating the law “theft of services” they could get bonuses.

[Velvet]

What about establishing a separate fund, for the purpose of increasing enforcement, what would be the process and a referendum could be taken first.

[dougjb]

Again, I have to ask, what percentage/number of freeloading trespassers and potential troublemakers ARE you willing to tolerate? For me, the number is ZERO, as in ZERO tolerance. In general, I have found that zero tolerance policies tend to be the most effective, whether it be in public gathering, schools, or the workplace.

Also, please realize, that if no effort is made to keep these people out, their number will only grow as word gets around that there is no problem stealing our amenities, especially with all the new apartment buildings going up. Get the zero-tolerance message out and numbers will dwindle.

Full disclosure: In over 11 years I have never used a pool here, but I do side with the 80-year-old ladies who are apprehensive when young non-villagers invade our pools.


You make several good points. I suggest we raise the monthly amenity fee to $10,000 for each and every homeowner so that we can keep out the total of four people who gate crash our over 100 pools. That way we can have zero tolerance. Since you have NEVER used any of our pools, why are you imagining what an 80 year old woman feels when a younger person is in the pool? So, be ready to cough up the money that your ill informed proposal would cost us.

[golfing eagles]

You make several good points. I suggest we raise the monthly amenity fee to $10,000 for each and every homeowner so that we can keep out the total of four people who gate crash our over 100 pools. That way we can have zero tolerance. Since you have NEVER used any of our pools, why are you imagining what an 80 year old woman feels when a younger person is in the pool? So, be ready to cough up the money that your ill informed proposal would cost us.

I will restrain myself from posting what I really think of that nonsense. So, with great difficulty I will politely respond:

If you think it is only 4 people, you haven't been paying attention. Community watch stats, although somewhat ambiguous, stated that there 158 CAUGHT in a 5-month period, which implies there were many more NOT caught.

If you think it would cost $10,000/home/month, you might need to recalculate. 70,000 homes x $10,000/month x 12 months = $8.4 BILLION/year. Now, if you would pay me that yearly I'd be happy to organize a zero-tolerance program.

I don't have to imagine what an 80 year old woman thinks about freeloaders, they have posted it on similar threads multiple times, all one has to do is READ.

So, who is "ill-informed" now??????

[BillyGrown]

I will restrain myself from posting what I really think of that nonsense. So, with great difficulty I will politely respond:

If you think it is only 4 people, you haven't been paying attention. Community watch stats, although somewhat ambiguous, stated that there 158 CAUGHT in a 5-month period, which implies there were many more NOT caught.

If you think it would cost $10,000/home/month, you might need to recalculate. 70,000 homes x $10,000/month x 12 months = $8.4 BILLION/year. Now, if you would pay me that yearly I'd be happy to organize a zero-tolerance program.

I don't have to imagine what an 80 year old woman thinks about freeloaders, they have posted it on similar threads multiple times, all one has to do is READ.

So, who is "ill-informed" now??????

I agree Golfingeagle. Most would be willing to pitch in 5 to 10 dollars a month to prevent misuse of our facilities. The other guy was definitely stretching it with exaggeration.

[biker1]

There is no "pitch in 5 to 10 dollars a month". There is only reallocating funds within the existing amenities' budget, which increases by the CPI each year on the anniversary of when each house was sold. You may wish to consider sending your thoughts to the CDDs.

I agree Golfingeagle. Most would be willing to pitch in 5 to 10 dollars a month to prevent misuse of our facilities. The other guy was definitely stretching it with exaggeration.

[Bill14564]

I agree Golfingeagle. Most would be willing to pitch in 5 to 10 dollars a month to prevent misuse of our facilities. The other guy was definitely stretching it with exaggeration.

Speak for yourself and count me as one who will not be supporting that..

MANY (perhaps not most) have complained about their yearly amenity fee increase. MANY are calling for a cap on the amenity fee to stop the increases from eating Into their fixed income. MANY will not be happy to hear about an exceptionally large increase to fix a problem that MANY do not experience.

The size of the increase that MANY see as too large: $4
Your proposal: A $5 to $10 increase ON TOP OF the $4 increase which would be the largest increase in recent history.

BTW: Wasn't the number 168 over the five months? 168 non-residents over a 150 day period or about 1.1 non-residents each day or less than 0.011 non-residents per pool each day (or 0.33 non-residents per pool each month). Sure, that number is an undercount, but it needs to be a LOT larger before I would be willing to pay an extra $100 just for pool monitoring.

[Bill14564]

There is no "pitch in 5 to 10 dollars a month". There is only reallocating funds within the existing amenities' budget. You may wish to consider sending your thoughts to the CDDs.

Pool monitors *could* be considered an additional amenity. In that case, the amenity fee could be adjusted to cover the additional amenity.

Otherwise, if it is simply taken out of the existing amenity fee budget, I believe now would be the time to attend the budget workshops and present this idea.

[biker1]

I don’t believe that would pass the sniff test and I doubt it would have much, if any, support. In the 11 years I have lived here, I have not seen such a thing done. According to my deed restrictions, you would need 1/2 the people to vote “yes” on an amenities’ fee increase for a new amenity and, again, I don’t think more people checking IDs is a new amenity. As I already stated, reallocating funds within the existing amenities’ budget is presumably a possibility.


Pool monitors *could* be considered an additional amenity. In that case, the amenity fee could be adjusted to cover the additional amenity.

Otherwise, if it is simply taken out of the existing amenity fee budget, I believe now would be the time to attend the budget workshops and present this idea.

[Bill14564]

I don’t believe that would pass the sniff test and I doubt it would have much, if any, support. In the 11 years I have lived here, I have not seen such a thing done. As I already stated, reallocating funds within the existing amenities’ budget is presumably a possibility.

No, you haven't seen that done even when amenities have been added (Black Lake walking path) or proposed (Lake Sumter Landing Recreational Boating Facility). But that doesn't mean the clause doesn't exist.

4.1(c): Each Owner agrees that as additional facilities are requested by the Owner, and the erection of such additional facilities is agreed to by the Developer, that upon a vote of 1/2 of the Owners approving such additional facilities and commensurate charges therefore, the monthly Contractual Amenities Fee provided for herein shall be increased accordingly. For the purposes of all votes, the Developer shall be entitle to one (1) vote for each Homesite owned by the Developer.

As Community Watch and gate manning are considered amenities, the pool monitoring could be considered an amenity and that clause could be exercised. I doubt it would come to that, but it's there.

[biker1]

There is currently pool monitoring. Additional monitoring is hardly a new amenity. As you already suggested, any amenities’ fee increase beyond the deed restriction limit of the CPI would not be popular and I doubt it would have support from the CDD board members.


No, you haven't seen that done even when amenities have been added (Black Lake walking path) or proposed (Lake Sumter Landing Recreational Boating Facility). But that doesn't mean the clause doesn't exist.

4.1(c): Each Owner agrees that as additional facilities are requested by the Owner, and the erection of such additional facilities is agreed to by the Developer, that upon a vote of 1/2 of the Owners approving such additional facilities and commensurate charges therefore, the monthly Contractual Amenities Fee provided for herein shall be increased accordingly. For the purposes of all votes, the Developer shall be entitle to one (1) vote for each Homesite owned by the Developer.

As Community Watch and gate manning are considered amenities, the pool monitoring could be considered an amenity and that clause could be exercised. I doubt it would come to that, but it's there.

[Bill14564]

There is currently pool monitoring. Additional monitoring is hardly a new amenity.

What is being proposed is a significant increase in monitoring including dedicated, full-time staffing. *That* would be a new amenity.

But I agree with you, an increase in the amenity fee (beyond the annual, CPI-based increase) is very unlikely to happen.

[biker1]

You are entitled to your opinion on what constitutes a new amenity but I doubt it passes the sniff test. Secondly, when you use the word “proposed” that could be interpreted as something that was seriously being considered by the decision makers. As far as I can tell, that is not the case. Anyone “proposing” such a thing on this forum should consider contacting the CDDs, otherwise it is all for not.


What is being proposed is a significant increase in monitoring including dedicated, full-time staffing. *That* would be a new amenity.

But I agree with you, an increase in the amenity fee (beyond the annual, CPI-based increase) is very unlikely to happen.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Rec center employees and community watch already do a few checks every day. The idea is to do more than a few. Maybe as many as several. And not on a schedule. Do a few scheduled every day, and add a few more as random spot-checks.

For pools that are adjacent to the rec centers, there could be a little extra construction to add a door leading from the rec center directly to the pool area. That way, anyone ENTERING the pool area, will have already had to show their ID to a rec center employee. A buzz-lock could be put on that door, so someone would have to buzz you in to the pool area.

You'd need an exit gate, and that gate could be made a one-way gate. A turnstile, perhaps - wide enough for a wheelchair to accommodate those who need it.

These would be one-time expenses, not including occasional maintenance to oil the turnstile or repair wiring on the buzzer system.

That would solve the problem of all pools adjacent to rec centers.

For the OTHER pools, you could have roaming rec employees working in concert with Community watch for the usual checks, and since they wouldn't need to go to the rec center pools anymore, they'd have that time freed up for extra trips around the other pools.

[Road-Runner]

I've seen 'pool crashers' become a severe problem over time at one of our previous communities. It started slowly, but as others heard about the lack of security many more began using the pool, the tennis courts, etc. until the community funded cameras and a security guard to randomly check for IDs. Either the amenities are for the sole use of the residents who pay for them or they aren't. I vote for non-Villagers to go elsewhere.

Has The Villages considered using the same Gate Cards to enter pool areas and pickleball / tennis courts? It would be a significant cost initially as well as ongoing maintenance, but likely cheaper than hiring several full-time personnel. I've seen this done at apartment complexes.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I've seen 'pool crashers' become a severe problem over time at one of our previous communities. It started slowly, but as others heard about the lack of security many more began using the pool, the tennis courts, etc. until the community funded cameras and a security guard to randomly check for IDs. Either the amenities are for the sole use of the residents who pay for them or they aren't. I vote for non-Villagers to go elsewhere.

Has The Villages considered using the same Gate Cards to enter pool areas and pickleball / tennis courts? It would be a significant cost initially as well as ongoing maintenance, but likely cheaper than hiring several full-time personnel. I've seen this done at apartment complexes.

Problem with this idea: people who live alone, get more gate cards than they need. In addition, you can read right here on this forum of people who find it easy and inexpensive to bypass the need for those cards, with stick-on thingies they can get on Amazon, or from any of a half dozen people in the community. You stick it on a laminated card that has no significance to you at all, and use it to get in and out of anything requiring that gate code.

Because - it's so readily advertised here, boasted about how EASY it is to do, and how it's not a big deal since those gates are for traffic control and not security, those gate cards don't provide any security at all.

They could have, once upon a time. But not anymore, because those few folks who worry about raindrop stains on their fine leather upholstery just refuse to open their windows to press a red button or pass a card across a card reader. The same mentality as those who would never pull a weed out of their own garden because they wouldn't want to break a fingernail.

You wouldn't need full time personnel. You'd need part-timers.

[HappyTraveler]

Has The Villages considered using the same Gate Cards to enter pool areas and pickleball / tennis courts? It would be a significant cost initially as well as ongoing maintenance, but likely cheaper than hiring several full-time personnel. I've seen this done at apartment complexes.

That is a MUCH better idea than some of the others I've read posted here - some of which have too much ongoing cost, commotion and are overkill considering the small size of the problem.

Having said that, I still don't remotely see TV or the Districts spending the time or effort attempting to solve an issue that is presently so minimal. From their POV it would be making a mountain out of a mole hill - which isn't a good way to run anything.

[Pugchief]

those few folks who worry about raindrop stains on their fine leather upholstery just refuse to open their windows to press a red button or pass a card across a card reader. The same mentality as those who would never pull a weed out of their own garden because they wouldn't want to break a fingernail.


Hmm. I sense some disdain for your fellow Villagers. Not sure why, 99% of the people I meet here are lovely. Obviously YMMV

[golfing eagles]

Speak for yourself and count me as one who will not be supporting that..

MANY (perhaps not most) have complained about their yearly amenity fee increase. MANY are calling for a cap on the amenity fee to stop the increases from eating Into their fixed income. MANY will not be happy to hear about an exceptionally large increase to fix a problem that MANY do not experience.

The size of the increase that MANY see as too large: $4
Your proposal: A $5 to $10 increase ON TOP OF the $4 increase which would be the largest increase in recent history.

BTW: Wasn't the number 168 over the five months? 168 non-residents over a 150 day period or about 1.1 non-residents each day or less than 0.011 non-residents per pool each day (or 0.33 non-residents per pool each month). Sure, that number is an undercount, but it needs to be a LOT larger before I would be willing to pay an extra $100 just for pool monitoring.

$4???? That's $4 WHOLE DOLLARS???? Too Large?????

Yeah, I guess some people would have to only order 1/2 of a Big Mac each month. If how much it affects any one individual is the argument, then what about school taxes???? Not too many Villagers with kids in school.

[ElDiabloJoe]

That is a MUCH better idea than some of the others I've read posted here - some of which have too much ongoing cost, commotion and are overkill considering the small size of the problem.

Having said that, I still don't remotely see TV or the Districts spending the time or effort attempting to solve an issue that is presently so minimal. From their POV it would be making a mountain out of a mole hill - which isn't a good way to run anything.
This will likely not be an issue unless and until an unauthorized person gains access and harm is caused to an authorized person. The subsequent legal actions and civil penalties will cause a paradigm shift in perspective and budget priorities to prevent same from occurring again. At the very least mitigating culpability and responsibility. Not sure if a CDD has deep pockets or can be held liable, but the Developer, who initiated the CDD structure, could be held liable - and personally so if punitive damages are awarded. Just sayin...

It's the same reason hotels go to such effort (and expense) to prevent unauthorized person(s) from accessing their building, amenities, hallways, and rooms.

[golfing eagles]

I've seen 'pool crashers' become a severe problem over time at one of our previous communities. It started slowly, but as others heard about the lack of security many more began using the pool, the tennis courts, etc. until the community funded cameras and a security guard to randomly check for IDs. Either the amenities are for the sole use of the residents who pay for them or they aren't. I vote for non-Villagers to go elsewhere.

Has The Villages considered using the same Gate Cards to enter pool areas and pickleball / tennis courts? It would be a significant cost initially as well as ongoing maintenance, but likely cheaper than hiring several full-time personnel. I've seen this done at apartment complexes.

Exactly my point---better to stop a smaller problem now than a larger problem in the future. I wish the same philosophy could be applied to Airbnbs

[Bill14564]

$4???? That's $4 WHOLE DOLLARS???? Too Large?????

Yeah, I guess some people would have to only order 1/2 of a Big Mac each month. If how much it affects any one individual is the argument, then what about school taxes???? Not too many Villagers with kids in school.

Have you not been reading the comments about the annual amenity fee increase?

School taxes are also rising too quickly but they have nothing to do with pool monitors and are not under the control of the AAC/VCCDD or PWAC/SLCDD.

[golfing eagles]

Have you not been reading the comments about the annual amenity fee increase?

School taxes are also rising too quickly but they have nothing to do with pool monitors and are not under the control of the AAC/VCCDD or PWAC/SLCDD.

But they are under control of the school board. And income taxes are under the control of Congress. And food prices are basically supply and demand. Prices go up. Is your point not to address a problem??? Or not to address it until it is out of control. How would you feel about your wife alone in a neighborhood pool when 4 teenage males come in???? Comfortable?????

My amenity fee was $145 in February of 2014, now it's $195, a 34% increase. Compare that with food, gas, housing etc. In the same time the value of my home has more than doubled, so I wish people would stop whining, especially about $4/month

[Bill14564]

But they are under control of the school board. And income taxes are under the control of Congress. And food prices are basically supply and demand. Prices go up. Is your point not to address a problem??? Or not to address it until it is out of control. How would you feel about your wife alone in a neighborhood pool when 4 teenage males come in???? Comfortable?????

We can discuss any number of things but this thread is about the use of (or preventing use of) Villages facilities.

And yes, I would be completely comfortable with that situation. It would be odd since our pool is rarely empty, I would likely be with her, and I haven't seen a teenager in the area in quite a while, but I would be comfortable.

One might wonder where that example of 4 teenage males in a neighborhood pool came from (other than the same thought process that somehow connected the topic of facilities with food prices). I don't believe any of the comments on here mentioned 4 teenage males in a neighborhood pool happening. She and I *have* discussed the situation mentioned in this thread, workers using the restroom, and we both agree this concern says more about the fearful woman than it does about the use of the restrooms.

[golfing eagles]

We can discuss any number of things but this thread is about the use of (or preventing use of) Villages facilities.

And yes, I would be completely comfortable with that situation. It would be odd since our pool is rarely empty, I would likely be with her, and I haven't seen a teenager in the area in quite a while, but I would be comfortable.

One might wonder where that example came from (other than the same thought process that somehow connected the topic of facilities with food prices). I don't believe any of the comments on here mentioned it happening. She and I *have* discussed the situation mentioned in this thread, workers using the restroom, and we both agree this concern says more about the fearful woman than it does about the use of the restrooms.

There have been dozens of posts from Villagers who have been at an amenity only to have them invaded by freeloaders. And I haven't even touch on the abuse of golf courses after hours by residents and non-residents alike. Ostriches only believe there is no problem by burying their heads in the sand

[Bill14564]

There have been dozens of posts from Villagers who have been at an amenity only to have them invaded by freeloaders. And I haven't even touch on the abuse of golf courses after hours by residents and non-residents alike. Ostriches only believe there is no problem by burying their heads in the sand

Thank you for pointing out the ambiguous wording in my post. I have tightened it up a bit.

Are you accusing me of being one of your ostriches? You might want to look back at my posts - I am one who has questioned the low count in the statistics. Sure there are non-residents and non-guests in some of the pools some of the time and maybe there are pools where this is a bigger problem than others but what is the real magnitude of the problem and what is the real cost to implement some of these ideas?

What would you label someone who swings a sledgehammer to kill a fly?

[golfing eagles]

Thank you for pointing out the ambiguous wording in my post. I have tightened it up a bit.

Are you accusing me of being one of your ostriches? You might want to look back at my posts - I am one who has questioned the low count in the statistics. Sure there are non-residents and non-guests in some of the pools some of the time and maybe there are pools where this is a bigger problem than others but what is the real magnitude of the problem and what is the real cost to implement some of these ideas?

What would you label someone who swings a sledgehammer to kill a fly?

If that fly was going to grow up to be Mothra or Godzilla, I'd call him a hero with foresight.

[golfing eagles]

This will likely not be an issue unless and until an unauthorized person gains access and harm is caused to an authorized person. The subsequent legal actions and civil penalties will cause a paradigm shift in perspective and budget priorities to prevent same from occurring again. At the very least mitigating culpability and responsibility. Not sure if a CDD has deep pockets or can be held liable, but the Developer, who initiated the CDD structure, could be held liable - and personally so if punitive damages are awarded. Just sayin...

It's the same reason hotels go to such effort (and expense) to prevent unauthorized person(s) from accessing their building, amenities, hallways, and rooms.

At least the subject apparently has been discussed at a recent PWAC meeting

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Hmm. I sense some disdain for your fellow Villagers. Not sure why, 99% of the people I meet here are lovely. Obviously YMMV

If by "your fellow Villagers" you mean people who pretend they're the Wicked Witch of the West and will absolutely melt when it comes to rolling down their car window to pass a card across a sensor, then sure.

[Aces4]

We can discuss any number of things but this thread is about the use of (or preventing use of) Villages facilities.

And yes, I would be completely comfortable with that situation. It would be odd since our pool is rarely empty, I would likely be with her, and I haven't seen a teenager in the area in quite a while, but I would be comfortable.

One might wonder where that example of 4 teenage males in a neighborhood pool came from (other than the same thought process that somehow connected the topic of facilities with food prices). I don't believe any of the comments on here mentioned 4 teenage males in a neighborhood pool happening. She and I *have* discussed the situation mentioned in this thread, workers using the restroom, and we both agree this concern says more about the fearful woman than it does about the use of the restrooms.

I think that the "commune" mentality of a few indicates they may be better off in a public living situation which absolutely provides for the exposure to every and any situation when using public facilities.

The Villages is a pay for use community with definite limitations and I don't understand why that is so difficult for some to grasp. If one wants to live with the public facilities and access, it is readily available but why choose a pay for use community at that point and try to make it public?

There are options for everyone but moving into a restricted community and then trying to rewrite the rules is ridiculous.:loco:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But they are under control of the school board. And income taxes are under the control of Congress. And food prices are basically supply and demand. Prices go up. Is your point not to address a problem??? Or not to address it until it is out of control. How would you feel about your wife alone in a neighborhood pool when 4 teenage males come in???? Comfortable?????

My amenity fee was $145 in February of 2014, now it's $195, a 34% increase. Compare that with food, gas, housing etc. In the same time the value of my home has more than doubled, so I wish people would stop whining, especially about $4/month

So, I just checked on the Villages website, and their current count is "over 70,000 homes." No idea when they calculated that, but let's run with it, and make it an even 70k.

70,000 homes * 195/month (I'm paying $198, why do you get 3 bucks discount? WTH)...

Is $13,650,000. Per month. Thirteen million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars, per month.

Times twelve months, since there happens to be exactly that many in a year.

Result: One hundred sixty-three million, eight hundred thousand dollars, for one year. $163,800,000. For one year.

Do we have any annual report showing their revenue, expenses, and so on? The most current one I can find is for 2021, and none of the expense/revenue sheets for any district isolates revenue exclusively from paid amenity fees as a line item.

They do show that they have investment balances, and net balances for the end of the year at over $75M for one of the districts.

It's clear to me that none of them are hurting for revenue, none of them are struggling to pay bills and still have a positive balance. Districts of COURSE have to have some padding, to cover for emergencies and planned future projects.

But I'd be interested to know how much more, or less, they each have "in the bank" than they did in 2021, now that they're splitting over $164 million among them, just for this past year alone.

[Bill14564]

So, I just checked on the Villages website, and their current count is "over 70,000 homes." No idea when they calculated that, but let's run with it, and make it an even 70k.

70,000 homes * 195/month (I'm paying $198, why do you get 3 bucks discount? WTH)...

Is $13,650,000. Per month. Thirteen million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars, per month.

Times twelve months, since there happens to be exactly that many in a year.

Result: One hundred sixty-three million, eight hundred thousand dollars, for one year. $163,800,000. For one year.

Do we have any annual report showing their revenue, expenses, and so on? The most current one I can find is for 2021, and none of the expense/revenue sheets for any district isolates revenue exclusively from paid amenity fees as a line item.

They do show that they have investment balances, and net balances for the end of the year at over $75M for one of the districts.

It's clear to me that none of them are hurting for revenue, none of them are struggling to pay bills and still have a positive balance. Districts of COURSE have to have some padding, to cover for emergencies and planned future projects.

But I'd be interested to know how much more, or less, they each have "in the bank" than they did in 2021, now that they're splitting over $164 million among them, just for this past year alone.

Not everyone is at the same amenity fee for several reasons including the prevailing rate being set higher than most of the current amenity fees. Your estimate calculations are high by about $30M.

To see actual numbers, look at the budgets of the CDDs that receive and spend the amenity fees - the SLCDD and VCCDD. There you can see their revenue, expenses, and so on. Combined, they expect to take in $138M in amenity fees this year which is 90% of the total amenity division revenue.

[golfing eagles]

So, I just checked on the Villages website, and their current count is "over 70,000 homes." No idea when they calculated that, but let's run with it, and make it an even 70k.

70,000 homes * 195/month (I'm paying $198, why do you get 3 bucks discount? WTH)...

Is $13,650,000. Per month. Thirteen million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars, per month.

Times twelve months, since there happens to be exactly that many in a year.

Result: One hundred sixty-three million, eight hundred thousand dollars, for one year. $163,800,000. For one year.

Do we have any annual report showing their revenue, expenses, and so on? The most current one I can find is for 2021, and none of the expense/revenue sheets for any district isolates revenue exclusively from paid amenity fees as a line item.

They do show that they have investment balances, and net balances for the end of the year at over $75M for one of the districts.

It's clear to me that none of them are hurting for revenue, none of them are struggling to pay bills and still have a positive balance. Districts of COURSE have to have some padding, to cover for emergencies and planned future projects.

But I'd be interested to know how much more, or less, they each have "in the bank" than they did in 2021, now that they're splitting over $164 million among them, just for this past year alone.

My friend's son, who is an assistant pro in South Florida and went to 4 years of golf management school, and I have been questioning the same about the championship courses. Average greens fees, exclusive of cart rental and pro shop merchandise, taking in to consideration enhanced/resident/guest rates and time of year is about $62. There are about 1.1 million rounds on champ courses/year or about $68+ million in revenue. To keep an 18 hole course in excellent (not Augusta National but excellent) condition costs around $1 million/year. we now have the equivalent of 19 1/2 18 hole courses, so 19.5 M /year. Now, throw in building maintenance, utilities, staff and miscellaneous overhead as well as major course renovations and what? maybe double that, or even 250%? So let's say $50M---where does the other $18M go? Especially since course conditions are often "questionable". Brian99 knows more about this than I, perhaps he could weigh in, but my friend's son is very knowledgeable and has never been able to make the math work either

[Bill14564]

My friend's son, who is an assistant pro in South Florida and went to 4 years of golf management school, and I have been questioning the same about the championship courses. Average greens fees, exclusive of cart rental and pro shop merchandise, taking in to consideration enhanced/resident/guest rates and time of year is about $62. There are about 1.1 million rounds on champ courses/year or about $68+ million in revenue. To keep an 18 hole course in excellent (not Augusta National but excellent) condition costs around $1 million/year. we now have the equivalent of 19 1/2 18 hole courses, so 19.5 M /year. Now, throw in building maintenance, utilities, staff and miscellaneous overhead as well as major course renovations and what? maybe double that, or even 250%? So let's say $50M---where does the other $18M go? Especially since course conditions are often "questionable". Brian99 knows more about this than I, perhaps he could weigh in, but my friend's son is very knowledgeable and has never been able to make the math work either

Profit to the owner of the courses? What do the numbers look like for a Florida course outside the Villages?

[ElDiabloJoe]

My friend's son, who is an assistant pro in South Florida and went to 4 years of golf management school, and I have been questioning the same about the championship courses. Average greens fees, exclusive of cart rental and pro shop merchandise, taking in to consideration enhanced/resident/guest rates and time of year is about $62. There are about 1.1 million rounds on champ courses/year or about $68+ million in revenue. To keep an 18 hole course in excellent (not Augusta National but excellent) condition costs around $1 million/year. we now have the equivalent of 19 1/2 18 hole courses, so 19.5 M /year. Now, throw in building maintenance, utilities, staff and miscellaneous overhead as well as major course renovations and what? maybe double that, or even 250%? So let's say $50M---where does the other $18M go? Especially since course conditions are often "questionable". Brian99 knows more about this than I, perhaps he could weigh in, but my friend's son is very knowledgeable and has never been able to make the math work either

Salaries and equipment (cart leases, lawn machines, aeration and fertilizer, etc.)?

[Normal]

It’s obvious Villages Slumlords who do rentals wouldn’t care for verification at pools and rec centers. People would have to pre apply just so they could use the pool for a week. No one wants another hoop to jump through.

[golfing eagles]

Salaries and equipment (cart leases, lawn machines, aeration and fertilizer, etc.)?

I think you missed that part of my post

[Stu from NYC]

My friend's son, who is an assistant pro in South Florida and went to 4 years of golf management school, and I have been questioning the same about the championship courses. Average greens fees, exclusive of cart rental and pro shop merchandise, taking in to consideration enhanced/resident/guest rates and time of year is about $62. There are about 1.1 million rounds on champ courses/year or about $68+ million in revenue. To keep an 18 hole course in excellent (not Augusta National but excellent) condition costs around $1 million/year. we now have the equivalent of 19 1/2 18 hole courses, so 19.5 M /year. Now, throw in building maintenance, utilities, staff and miscellaneous overhead as well as major course renovations and what? maybe double that, or even 250%? So let's say $50M---where does the other $18M go? Especially since course conditions are often "questionable". Brian99 knows more about this than I, perhaps he could weigh in, but my friend's son is very knowledgeable and has never been able to make the math work either

We are building our own golf course and asked for help.