Global mfg will never relocate

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

[Stu from NYC]

Time will tell if you are right but there are parts that can be made here that were outsourced to China.

Not going to be what it was but can see some additional factories here.

[MrFlorida]

They will start to come back, but it will take time.

[Whatnext]

Better buy your new iPhone now before the possiblef 104% tariff materializes.
As they say, "its not over until the fat lady sings!"

[CoachKandSportsguy]

In the mean time, here is how the business imports currently works:

A small business orders $100,000 of widgets from China.
The tariffs are 50%, easy math, the company owes $100,000 to the supplier, and 50,000 to US customs.
The business has to pay prior to getting the widgets released, or pay by owed date.
If they don't pay, most likely end of business, bankrupt.

Does the business all of a sudden have enough working capital to pay the US tariff?
The predominant answer is no, so needs an additional line of credit to pay the tariff.
OK, so the business gets one. . pays the tariff, and gets the widgets.

The next question is if the small business has enough product pricing power to pass that 50% increase on to customers?
Lets say gross margin is 20%, so prior to the tariff:

Pre Tariff Math = $125,000 Sales - S100,00 Cost of Goods Sold = $20,000 Gross margin to pay fixed overhead costs
Post Tariff Math = $175,000 Sales - $150,000 Cost of Goods Sold = $20,000 Gross Margin to pay fixed overhead costs.

175,000 / 120,000 - 1 = 40%

Now the cost of product is 50% higher, so in order to get the same margin dollars to pay for US overhead expenses,
the sales price must rise 40%. .

The only way for sales to remain at 40% higher, is for all competitors to raise prices 40%,
and for the demand being inelastic, meaning that people will buy the widget regardless of price.

However, demand being inelastic is highly improbable, so
1) the consumer will continue to buy with 40% product inflation?
2) reconsider the purchase and delay / not buy any more?

That is how the Great Depression happened.

Good Luck to us!

[fdpaq0580]

Better buy your new iPhone now before the possiblef 104% tariff materializes.
As they say, "its not over until the fat lady sings!"

HEY! Who you callin' a lady? 🤨😡

[Topspinmo]

Well any jobs coming back IMO NOT bad thing. Better than none or loosing more. According to some AI will replace humans anyway. I just hope AI don’t get smart enough to eliminate humans beings, AI may not have conscious? O wait….

[thelegges]

Apple is already on their continent plan, so no worries. Then again diehard 🍎 will survive.
Our plan gives us a new iPhone every other year. So no worries on whatever up charge can be

[Pugchief]

Time will tell if you are right but there are parts that can be made here that were outsourced to China.

Not going to be what it was but can see some additional factories here.

There are also things that MUST be made here. Pharmaceuticals are the most pressing, but there are others.

[Aces4]

I am old enough to remember how nice American products were.. clothing, shoes, Harley's, glass, cotton products, appliances, (so relieved Speed Queen is still in America), and so forth. Most stuff now is dime store cheap and crappy.

I think we need to bear in mind that employment in the USA is critical and I'll never be convinced this country is far better off with China holding our tab and taking our employment. Never.

[bopat]

China doesn't innovate, they copy

Robots work 24x7x365, China can't compete with that

The old globalism is gone. The new automation, AI and robotics is here and growing.

It will be fueled by high quality USA made products just like before.

[Arctic Fox]

Tariffs are simply a tax on the US public.

Most of the stuff imported from China can never be made here as cheaply, even with a 100% tariff. Even items that can will be manufactured in factories that are full of robots, not workers, so any benefits to employment numbers will be minimal.

Globalization is far from perfect, but it is preferable to isolationism.

[Aces4]

Tariffs are simply a tax on the US public.

Most of the stuff imported from China can never be made here as cheaply, even with a 100% tariff. Even items that can will be manufactured in factories that are full of robots, not workers, so any benefits to employment numbers will be minimal.

Globalization is far from perfect, but it is preferable to isolationism.


Isolationism you mean like China?

How cheap would we need things to be here if ALL people had jobs and were paid a decent wage and benefits? How about ditching the stock market and companies remain private, how much could be passed on in lower pricing since you don't have to feed those who have contributed nothing? How much less would be siphoned off taxpayers if there were fewer people on welfare and Medicaid?

Working citizens make for a much healthier society and would help squelch the hopeless in inner cities. Idleness is the devils workshop.

[EastCoastDawg]

Working citizens make for a much healthier society and would help squelch the hopeless in inner cities. Idleness is the devils workshop.

True, but tariffs do NOT bring jobs back; they just make things more expensive for you and me.

All of the money raised from tariffs goes straight into the Government coffers.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

China doesn't innovate, they copy

Robots work 24x7x365, China can't compete with that

The old globalism is gone. The new automation, AI and robotics is here and growing.

It will be fueled by high quality USA made products just like before.

robots don't increase human employment, they cannabalize human work, so who is going to fund your Social Security then?

The only answer for robotic automation is to tax capital as high as salaries were in the depression, and then provide back universal basic income, (UBI) . . otherwise, agricultural and industrial tax and spend policies won't have a chance.

[Aces4]

robots don't increase human employment, they cannabalize human work, so who is going to fund your Social Security then?

The only answer for robotic automation is to tax capital as high as salaries were in the depression, and then provide back universal basic income, (UBI) . . otherwise, agricultural and industrial tax and spend policies won't have a chance.

Interesting, so you think robots will garner and manage their own engineering designs, materials, operation, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, redesign, obsolescence replacements, electricity, housing, insurance and so forth?

[Aces4]

True, but tariffs do NOT bring jobs back; they just make things more expensive for you and me.

All of the money raised from tariffs goes straight into the Government coffers.

And that is why there is such a push at this moment to eliminate almost all import, VAT and tariffs from the trade system.

Money in the government coffers? Now there is an interesting premise.

[Papa_lecki]

Oh good, all the agronomy experts are now global economics experts.

[FloridaGuy66]

They will start to come back, but it will take time.

Most of those jobs are not the type of jobs that anyone here should want. Bringing in jobs where people are getting paid minimum wage to be on their feet for 9 hours a day for just above minimum wage isn't going to improve this country one bit.

If anything, they will move some manufacturing here, but it will be automated (robots) and use 10% of the labor force. So in the end, there will be almost no American jobs created.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Interesting, so you think robots will garner and manage their own engineering designs, materials, operation, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, redesign, obsolescence replacements, electricity, housing, insurance and so forth?

my dad was a mechanical design engineer, college after WW2. He started with mathematics log tables and a slide rule. He graduated to a mechanical calculator, of which I got my hand stuck in when I was 7-8 years old. Then when the TRS 80 came out, i programmed the involute curve calculation to speed his long calculations. He loved that. . but CAD/CAM software, reduced his whole department to 1 and him.

And that was in the 2000s

So yeah, there is huge progress continuing with technology to eat as many jobs as possible. You gave a list, great, and those jobs might never go away, but there may be 2 instead of 5 people employed at those jobs.

I have taken a single person's 4 hour daily job and reduced it to 5 minutes for me, and then automated overnight. Human cannabalization continues

[FloridaGuy66]

Interesting, so you think robots will garner and manage their own engineering designs, materials, operation, manufacturing, delivery, maintenance, redesign, obsolescence replacements, electricity, housing, insurance and so forth?

I worked for a number of years in an automotive plant that had all of those roles on site. Those skilled roles made up around 20% of the jobs. The other 80% were people getting paid poorly to do the same 2-3 tasks for 8-10 hours per day like a living robot.

I felt sorry for those people spending 20-30 years of their lives 5-6 days a week doing boring, repetitive tasks that permanently damage their bodies to the point where their retirement isn't going to involve any physical activity like golf or pickleball.

It's a shame people are somehow being fooled into thinking that factory jobs are the ones we should want more of. We need more jobs that utilize modern technologies, biotechnology is something that we're falling very far behind on is one example.

[Stu from NYC]

China doesn't innovate, they copy

Robots work 24x7x365, China can't compete with that

The old globalism is gone. The new automation, AI and robotics is here and growing.

It will be fueled by high quality USA made products just like before.

Actually China is a copier but they do some innovation and that is growing. Do not think they will catch up with us but they are very good at stealing our technology.

[Stu from NYC]

my dad was a mechanical design engineer, college after WW2. He started with mathematics log tables and a slide rule. He graduated to a mechanical calculator, of which I got my hand stuck in when I was 7-8 years old. Then when the TRS 80 came out, i programmed the involute curve calculation to speed his long calculations. He loved that. . but CAD/CAM software, reduced his whole department to 1 and him.

And that was in the 2000s

So yeah, there is huge progress continuing with technology to eat as many jobs as possible. You gave a list, great, and those jobs might never go away, but there may be 2 instead of 5 people employed at those jobs.

I have taken a single person's 4 hour daily job and reduced it to 5 minutes for me, and then automated overnight. Human cannabalization continues

I do believe that AI will create jobs that are well paying and doing functions that we can never imagine. Till will tell.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Actually China is a copier but they do some innovation and that is growing. Do not think they will catch up with us but they are very good at stealing our technology.

We educated many of them, they will catch up and overtake us on the current path. China wants to overtake us in technology, and we want to over take them in manufacturing. .

Not thinking this is a fair fight, since mfg is capital intensive, and software in human intensive. . as the US is running out of debt capacity

[EastCoastDawg]

And that is why there is such a push at this moment to eliminate almost all import, VAT and tariffs from the trade system.

?

Have you actually been following the news for the past week?

[Aces4]

my dad was a mechanical design engineer, college after WW2. He started with mathematics log tables and a slide rule. He graduated to a mechanical calculator, of which I got my hand stuck in when I was 7-8 years old. Then when the TRS 80 came out, i programmed the involute curve calculation to speed his long calculations. He loved that. . but CAD/CAM software, reduced his whole department to 1 and him.

And that was in the 2000s

So yeah, there is huge progress continuing with technology to eat as many jobs as possible. You gave a list, great, and those jobs might never go away, but there may be 2 instead of 5 people employed at those jobs.

I have taken a single person's 4 hour daily job and reduced it to 5 minutes for me, and then automated overnight. Human cannabalization continues

Why hasn't this cannabalization hit China? The more jobs in America, the more jobs that are needed. I think it's a little early for UBI and the death of the USA but then I believe in us.

[jimhoward]

I don’t think too many people will build factories in the US depending on tariffs that could be repealed to be competitive. The people that will built factories in the US will be those, like Hyundai, that were going to do it anyway.

[Aces4]

I don’t think too many people will build factories in the US depending on tariffs that could be repealed to be competitive. The people that will built factories in the US will be those, like Hyundai, that were going to do it anyway.

If that's the case, we will continue to pay much more for anything we purchase in that we will be shelling it out for unemployed benefits, Medicaid, housing/rental assistance, heat/electricity assistance, food stamps and more. People who aren't involved in their existence lose their identity and pride.

We will be paying the nickels one way or another, there are no free rides.

[Aces4]

?

Have you actually been following the news for the past week?

I've had a good peek at it and have to say it is encouraging. Many things the wrongs created will not be corrected without some sacrifice, that won't happen.

If I was a stock market person, I would be investing now. That not is not advice for others, it is just my perspective of things to come.

[jbartle1]

I've had a good peek at it and have to say it is encouraging. Many things the wrongs created will not be corrected without some sacrifice, that won't happen.

If I was a stock market person, I would be investing now. That not is not advice for others, it is just my perspective of things to come.

Funny how the correction and sacrifice doesn’t affect billionares, hmmmm!!!!????

[manaboutown]

Actually China is a copier but they do some innovation and that is growing. Do not think they will catch up with us but they are very good at stealing our technology.

Historically the Chinese have ignored and even stolen our intellectual property with impunity. I remember when back in the mid 1960s I started a job as a Patent Examiner at the USPTO the staff used the term "Chinese Copy" when a patent application essentially disclosed and claimed what was shown in a reference. lol.

[Stu from NYC]

Funny how the correction and sacrifice doesn’t affect billionares, hmmmm!!!!????

You think the value of their portfolios does not go down when the market goes down?

[Topspinmo]

Funny how the correction and sacrifice doesn’t affect billionares, hmmmm!!!!????

IMO They create the sell off selling millions of stock at high price, that drops market value then the wait like thief in night buy back at way lower value rate which causes market to go up. Then cycle starts all over again.

[MorTech]

Call the tariff a 10% sales tax...Minimum.
China understands...They are dumping treasuries to keep the 10 year yield high.
The tariffs will benefit Mexico. Still.

USD being the global currency means our economy gets offshored/depressed over time. They will probably create a USA only dollar and an outside USA dollar that will be priced differently. The "Eurodollar" needs to be drained to take back control of monetary policy and SOFR replacing LIBOR is a good first step...The tariffs will help even more.

MeThinks the tariffs will bankrupt the European Union and UK...I think that's the plan. The City of London (the autonomous city within London) is a plain 300 year evil. Time to dust off the Monroe Doctrine and take Canada and Greenland away from our European colonizers :) Trump/Powell/Dimon/Nutlick knows who are real enemies are and it ain't Russia or China.

[MorTech]

There are 300M people in China with an IQ north of 140. They will be just fine after their debt depression and they are the world innovators and producers now.

[Arctic Fox]

There are 300M people in China with an IQ north of 140. They will be just fine after their debt depression and they are the world innovators and producers now.

An IQ above 140 is in the 99.6th percentile - one in 250 people. With 1.4 billion people, China will have around 6 million above 140. Still plenty to innovate, though.

[MorTech]

300M people with an IQ north of 140 combined with a Confucius/Tso mindset...The human values produced there will be mind blowing.

[RoadToad]

Money in the coffers is the REAL motivation.
Only then can it be pilfered for tax breaks for the (needy??)
0% Tariffs (trade free) only helps the majority of us; and fails to achieve objective.



And that is why there is such a push at this moment to eliminate almost all import, VAT and tariffs from the trade system.

Money in the government coffers? Now there is an interesting premise.

[RoadToad]

Good on you!
Edifying the masses is however an uphill battle.
Stay strong...

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

[Dahabs]

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

Very well said!

[Dahabs]

I've had a good peek at it and have to say it is encouraging. Many things the wrongs created will not be corrected without some sacrifice, that won't happen.

If I was a stock market person, I would be investing now. That not is not advice for others, it is just my perspective of things to come.

Good luck.

[rsmurano]

Let’s see, Trump has received $5T of new money to build new things in the states and a lot of them will employ hundreds of thousands of people. You forget, if you are building a plant that will be using robots, you still need a lot of people to build the plant, program and maintain the robots, and a staff to do things that robots can’t do. Every car plant in the world has robots but they also have a large staff to keep it running and to do certain tasks.

The OP brings up a unique situation about trying to move $3 labor plant to the US. This won’t happen, but how about the large tariffs brought by Germany, UK, Japan, and others that make much more than $3 an hour to build cars, these places can move to the states and most of them have for decades.

Remember, Trump isn’t asking nations to pack up shop and relocate here, he gives them multiple choices:
1) build here
2) take your tariffs off and we will take ours off.

Pretty simple. While we are at it, I like trumps idea to create the ERS (external revenue service) that gets the tariff money and reducing or eliminating the IRS.

When CEO’s are interviewed here in the states and even Warren Buffet, they like what Trump is doing with the tariffs. Trumps tariffs from 2017 are still in place today, if they were bad, why haven’t they been eliminated? And since those tariffs are on aluminum and steel, how much have you been paying extra for a can of soda? Since those tariffs are in place, how much aluminum do we import or how much more do our aluminum plants produce of what we buy?

1 more thing, we also have factories or businesses running at 50-75% capacity, maybe tariffs will work out for the US to get these running at full capacity without the need to build something new that could take years.

[bowlingal]

if they move manufacturing at all, it will be many years. Trump will be gone as well as most of us

[golfing eagles]

IMO They create the sell off selling millions of stock at high price, that drops market value then the wait like thief in night buy back at way lower value rate which causes market to go up. Then cycle starts all over again.

You mean sell high and buy low? What a novel idea. News flash, it does not apply only to "billionaires". You could jump in and buy now, or try to time the bottom of the market, which usually doesn't turn out too well. Perhaps a better maxim is to buy on the way down and sell on the way up.

[Cliff Fr]

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

Your corrupt comment shows your bias. I for one am rooting main street USA to be prosperous.

[Villager24]

And just like that… everyone’s a tariff expert. 😂

[MicRoDrafting]

do NOT expect to see Businesses returning any time soon … primarily because these recent actions have led to the USA being viewed as Untrustworthy and Disgraceful concerning the Global Market/Economy and our previous allies …

… the World is No Longer Simply
Watching, BUT Now is Reacting !!

[ithos]

Economics is a strange subject.

A trade surplus is great for China, South Korea, Japan, Norway, Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland but bad for the United States who once saved the world from Tyranny with its manufacturing base.

Aircraft
Over 300,000 military aircraft, including:
Fighters: P-51 Mustang, P-47 Thunderbolt
Bombers: B-17 Flying Fortress, B-24 Liberator, B-29 Superfortress

Ships
88,410 naval vessels, including:
6,768 cargo ships (like the Liberty and Victory ships)
1,200 major warships
22 aircraft carriers (fleet and escort)

Tanks and Armored Vehicles
88,410 tanks and self-propelled guns

Small Arms
Over 12 million rifles and carbines
2.7 million machine guns
Over 40 billion rounds of ammunition

Vehicles
Over 2.3 million military trucks and jeeps

At its peak, the U.S. was producing nearly 40% of all Allied military equipment.

The vast majority of the workers were middle income.

But now we are told America sucks in manufacturing so we need to just run massive trade deficits and we will be so much more wealthier. Who cares if tens of millions will never have a shot of a meaningful career with good benefits. Let them flip burgers.

[jbartle1]

You think the value of their portfolios does not go down when the market goes down?

Cry me a river, boo hoo

[opinionist]

Trillions have already been committed to investment in the United States. Maybe the new factories will be primarily robotic, but service jobs always spring up around factories. Corporations plan their investments years in advance. The fact that investments are publicly announced now means we are watching a plan unfold that was years in the making. The goal is trade balance and not trade dominance. We don't have to make socks in the US if we have something of value to export.

[Ski Bum]

This was the best answer so far:

Remember, Trump isn’t asking nations to pack up shop and relocate here, he gives them multiple choices:
1) build here
2) take your tariffs off and we will take ours off.

But I would add a third. Open your markets and we will drop our tariffs. This whole thing is about market access and non-tariff barriers.

The goal is to cut China out of the world economy. Anything that can be made in China can be made in Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. Vietnam is already making a deal. Trump is a Penn Wharton MBA. He understands the concept of the division of labor.

[Ski Bum]

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

Trump understands the concept of the division of labor. He is a Penn Wharton MBA. So maybe there's another reason?

[LonnyP]

#morewinning

[airstreamingypsy]

Trump understands the concept of the division of labor. He is a Penn Wharton MBA. So maybe there's another reason?

Trump graduated from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968 with a bachelor's degree in economics. He does NOT have an MBA.

[MrFlorida]

What if we get in a war with China, who will make out equipment ? Not us, we don't make anything except condo's and fast food.

[Nellmack]

Trump graduated from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968 with a bachelor's degree in economics. He does NOT have an MBA.

Like it or not we are in a world economy and it's too late to change that fact. We prove it every day when we choose the cheapest price on Amazon. We look up a product, compare pricing, click "order" and boom, we just purchased a tee shirt from Vietnam = world economy.

Contrary to what ToTV folks are saying, every single expert that I have read about say that tariffs are bad....very bad. The only logical reason for tariffs are to gain power. Place a tariff on a country and force that country beg for relief. Unfortunately, now, we all complicit in this power grab.

[Stu from NYC]

do NOT expect to see Businesses returning any time soon … primarily because these recent actions have led to the USA being viewed as Untrustworthy and Disgraceful concerning the Global Market/Economy and our previous allies …

… the World is No Longer Simply
Watching, BUT Now is Reacting !!

Does the fact that about 70 plus nations have approached us about coming up with a better deal matter?

[KAM+6]

Trump graduated from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968 with a bachelor's degree in economics. He does NOT have an MBA.

Went Bankrupt 6 times, several other businesses went bust. Latest was DC hotel. Scotland and Ireland golf courses have been in the red since day one. Also, many in US.

[Normal]

Manufacturing may not move, but many corporate offices are talking of moving their HQ and earnings to the US again. Taxes drove them away.

Purina , Budweiser , Tyco, IHS, Pfizer, Birger King(Canada lol), Medtronic, Frigidaire etc….

[kingofbeer]

True, but tariffs do NOT bring jobs back; they just make things more expensive for you and me.

All of the money raised from tariffs goes straight into the Government coffers.
Thinking that the plan is to give this new money away to the ultra rich.

[Ptmcbriz]

It takes a high tech manufacturing plant typically 5-7 years to build. CEO’s are not bringing their plants back because Trump will be gone well before that time. CEO’s prefer paying for $3 an hour labor along with many raw materials cant be found in the US. Btw, typically a high tech robotic run plant needs HIGHLY skilled educated workers, not the normal joe blow worker. Youll need IT and engineering degrees.

[ithos]

do NOT expect to see Businesses returning any time soon … primarily because these recent actions have led to the USA being viewed as Untrustworthy and Disgraceful concerning the Global Market/Economy and our previous allies …

… the World is No Longer Simply
Watching, BUT Now is Reacting !!

Untrustworthy and Disgraceful? What nonsense.
If so then why do we have our military deployed around the world at great expense to our economy? Its time we pursue policies that support the USAs interest over our so called allies.

Germany – Largest U.S. military presence in Europe; bases like Ramstein and Grafenwöhr.
Italy – Naval and Air Force bases (e.g., Aviano, Naples).
United Kingdom – Several Air Force bases, including RAF Lakenheath.
Poland – Increasing troop presence under NATO initiatives.
Romania, Bulgaria, and the Baltics (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) – Rotational deployments, NATO reassurance.
Japan – One of the largest overseas deployments; includes Okinawa and Yokota Air Base.
South Korea – Large presence (~28,000 troops) as a deterrent against North Korea.
Guam – Strategic U.S. territory with significant naval and air assets.
Philippines & Australia – Rotational deployments and training agreements.
Turkey – Incirlik Air Base, strategic for Middle East operations.
Kuwait – Major logistical and support hub.
Qatar – Al Udeid Air Base, key for CENTCOM operations.
Bahrain – Home of the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet.
United Arab Emirates (UAE) – Air Force presence and joint training.
Iraq & Syria – Troops remain for anti-ISIS operations and advisory roles.
Djibouti – Camp Lemonnier, the main U.S. base in Africa.
*****, Kenya, Somalia – Smaller, mission-specific deployments focused on counterterrorism and training.
Chart: Where U.S. Troops Are Based Around The World | Statista (https://www.statista.com/chart/8720/where-us-troops-are-based-around-the-world/)

[Stu from NYC]

It takes a high tech manufacturing plant typically 5-7 years to build. CEO’s are not bringing their plants back because Trump will be gone well before that time. CEO’s prefer paying for $3 an hour labor along with many raw materials cant be found in the US. Btw, typically a high tech robotic run plant needs HIGHLY skilled educated workers, not the normal joe blow worker. Youll need IT and engineering degrees.

Not to mention companies will spring up around these factories offering supporting jobs.

[RickyLee]

Time will tell if you are right but there are parts that can be made here that were outsourced to China.

Not going to be what it was but can see some additional factories here.
Pharmaceuticals/medicine are my main concern. We need to bring them home

[Normal]

It takes a high tech manufacturing plant typically 5-7 years to build. CEO’s are not bringing their plants back because Trump will be gone well before that time. CEO’s prefer paying for $3 an hour labor along with many raw materials cant be found in the US. Btw, typically a high tech robotic run plant needs HIGHLY skilled educated workers, not the normal joe blow worker. Youll need IT and engineering degrees.

Corporate offices and earnings can be moved overnight

[kingofbeer]

Untrustworthy and Disgraceful? What nonsense.
If so then why do we have our military deployed around the world at great expense to our economy? Its time we pursue policies that support the USAs interest over our so called allies.

Germany – Largest U.S. military presence in Europe; bases like Ramstein and Grafenwöhr.
Italy – Naval and Air Force bases (e.g., Aviano, Naples).
United Kingdom – Several Air Force bases, including RAF Lakenheath.
Poland – Increasing troop presence under NATO initiatives.
Romania, Bulgaria, and the Baltics (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) – Rotational deployments, NATO reassurance.
Japan – One of the largest overseas deployments; includes Okinawa and Yokota Air Base.
South Korea – Large presence (~28,000 troops) as a deterrent against North Korea.
Guam – Strategic U.S. territory with significant naval and air assets.
Philippines & Australia – Rotational deployments and training agreements.
Turkey – Incirlik Air Base, strategic for Middle East operations.
Kuwait – Major logistical and support hub.
Qatar – Al Udeid Air Base, key for CENTCOM operations.
Bahrain – Home of the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet.
United Arab Emirates (UAE) – Air Force presence and joint training.
Iraq & Syria – Troops remain for anti-ISIS operations and advisory roles.
Djibouti – Camp Lemonnier, the main U.S. base in Africa.
*****, Kenya, Somalia – Smaller, mission-specific deployments focused on counterterrorism and training.
Chart: Where U.S. Troops Are Based Around The World | Statista (https://www.statista.com/chart/8720/where-us-troops-are-based-around-the-world/)
We put our troops there because it benefits US interests over the entire world.

[Bill14564]

Untrustworthy and Disgraceful? What nonsense.
If so then why do we have our military deployed around the world at great expense to our economy? Its time we pursue policies that support the USAs interest over our so called allies.

…


You seem to have missed the word “recent.”

There also appears to be a lack of appreciation/understanding for what is in the best interest of the US.

[kingofbeer]

Corporate offices and earnings can be moved overnight
How do you know this to be a fact?

[RickyLee]

Like it or not we are in a world economy and it's too late to change that fact. We prove it every day when we choose the cheapest price on Amazon. We look up a product, compare pricing, click "order" and boom, we just purchased a tee shirt from Vietnam = world economy.

Contrary to what ToTV folks are saying, every single expert that I have read about say that tariffs are bad....very bad. The only logical reason for tariffs are to gain power. Place a tariff on a country and force that country beg for relief. Unfortunately, now, we all complicit in this power grab.

AHH The power of negotiation

[MandoMan]

In the mean time, here is how the business imports currently works:

A small business orders $100,000 of widgets from China.
The tariffs are 50%, easy math, the company owes $100,000 to the supplier, and 50,000 to US customs.
The business has to pay prior to getting the widgets released, or pay by owed date.
If they don't pay, most likely end of business, bankrupt.

Does the business all of a sudden have enough working capital to pay the US tariff?
The predominant answer is no, so needs an additional line of credit to pay the tariff.
OK, so the business gets one. . pays the tariff, and gets the widgets.

The next question is if the small business has enough product pricing power to pass that 50% increase on to customers?
Lets say gross margin is 20%, so prior to the tariff:

Pre Tariff Math = $125,000 Sales - S100,00 Cost of Goods Sold = $20,000 Gross margin to pay fixed overhead costs
Post Tariff Math = $175,000 Sales - $150,000 Cost of Goods Sold = $20,000 Gross Margin to pay fixed overhead costs.

175,000 / 120,000 - 1 = 40%

Now the cost of product is 50% higher, so in order to get the same margin dollars to pay for US overhead expenses,
the sales price must rise 40%. .

The only way for sales to remain at 40% higher, is for all competitors to raise prices 40%,
and for the demand being inelastic, meaning that people will buy the widget regardless of price.

However, demand being inelastic is highly improbable, so
1) the consumer will continue to buy with 40% product inflation?
2) reconsider the purchase and delay / not buy any more?

That is how the Great Depression happened.

Good Luck to us!

Isn’t part of the idea of tariffs on China to convince Americans to just stop buying Chinese products because they are no longer good deals? (And likewise for other countries.) If that leads to us not buying that product from anywhere at any price, at least the money hasn’t gone overseas. So, iPhone buyers don’t buy a new iPhone because they don’t want to pay an extra thousand for it. They keep their perfectly good old phone. Similarly, Lexus drivers in The Villages may buy a new Lincoln—though the price will go up because so much of it is made elsewhere—or maybe they will buy nothing. Same for Toyotas, Hyundais, Subarus, etc. the real idea is less making money off your purchase as a tax, though if you BUY something with tariffs, that’s essentially what it is. The idea is to get patriotic Americans to stop buying products from overseas, period, whether they buy an American product instead or not. Then the trade imbalance stops. After all, people in other countries don’t really want to buy more things that we make because they can’t afford them, even without tariffs.

Think about it. If you stop buying products with levied tariffs because you aren’t willing to pay an extra 20% or 50% or 100%, you will need to stop shopping at WalMart, the Dollar Store, Home Depot, etc. These stores may be forced into bankruptcy if tariffs continue for a year. But that is how the trade imbalance is solved. The alternative is for the foreign countries to stop subsidizing their own companies and let the cost of the items rise to what they actually cost to produce and sell. Oh, but doesn’t that raise your costs when you go shopping? Yes. For a lot of things you like to buy, there are no completely American equivalents. You will either have to do without or pay higher costs for the overseas product you love, and your purchase at least, at that higher price, will put more money in our U.S. Treasury. It’s a bit like a Luxury Tax, but a Luxury Tax on WalMart Shoppers who used to buy products there because they were less expensive.

[chrisinva]

:cryin2: All this consternation makes me glad I'm on the other side of 70.

[bopat]

Isn’t part of the idea of tariffs on China to convince Americans to just stop buying Chinese products because they are no longer good deals? (And likewise for other countries.) If that leads to us not buying that product from anywhere at any price, at least the money hasn’t gone overseas. So, iPhone buyers don’t buy a new iPhone because they don’t want to pay an extra thousand for it. They keep their perfectly good old phone. Similarly, Lexus drivers in The Villages may buy a new Lincoln—though the price will go up because so much of it is made elsewhere—or maybe they will buy nothing. Same for Toyotas, Hyundais, Subarus, etc. the real idea is less making money off your purchase as a tax, though if you BUY something with tariffs, that’s essentially what it is. The idea is to get patriotic Americans to stop buying products from overseas, period, whether they buy an American product instead or not. Then the trade imbalance stops. After all, people in other countries don’t really want to buy more things that we make because they can’t afford them, even without tariffs.

Think about it. If you stop buying products with levied tariffs because you aren’t willing to pay an extra 20% or 50% or 100%, you will need to stop shopping at WalMart, the Dollar Store, Home Depot, etc. These stores may be forced into bankruptcy if tariffs continue for a year. But that is how the trade imbalance is solved. The alternative is for the foreign countries to stop subsidizing their own companies and let the cost of the items rise to what they actually cost to produce and sell. Oh, but doesn’t that raise your costs when you go shopping? Yes. For a lot of things you like to buy, there are no completely American equivalents. You will either have to do without or pay higher costs for the overseas product you love, and your purchase at least, at that higher price, will put more money in our U.S. Treasury. It’s a bit like a Luxury Tax, but a Luxury Tax on WalMart Shoppers who used to buy products there because they were less expensive.

I remember back in the 1990s when Walmart had a lot of USA made products.

[Bogie Shooter]

Does the fact that about 70 plus nations have approached us about coming up with a better deal matter?
Yet to be a list of countries……….

[Aces4]

We put our troops there because it benefits US interests over the entire world.

And what is that interest? That's right.. a world free from communism. Guess we aren't so crazy after all.

[Aces4]

It takes a high tech manufacturing plant typically 5-7 years to build. CEO’s are not bringing their plants back because Trump will be gone well before that time. CEO’s prefer paying for $3 an hour labor along with many raw materials cant be found in the US. Btw, typically a high tech robotic run plant needs HIGHLY skilled educated workers, not the normal joe blow worker. Youll need IT and engineering degrees.


So you're telling us every worker in a high tech manufacturing plant has an IT and Engineering degree?

It's most likely all those educational skills were gleaned from American colleges where we blindly educate students from all different countries and send our brilliance back to their homes.

[Normal]

Yet to be a list of countries……….

The EU, Australia, Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and Israel are all negotiating their differences. The rest aren’t mentioned much? Perhaps it’s all part of deal making.

[Aces4]

Hogwash! Get an education, get a college degree, work in health care (which has a massive shortage). Manufacturing is not coming back to the US in large numbers. Get over it already!

Now everyone in the USA is going to be a doctor or a nurse. Gee, our problems are over. Lack of insight for the capabilities and ambition in America is quite common now. We are told over and over that we aren't able to do any and all the things we previously would do in a heart beat.

This is a huge problem in our country with this dialog being produced that we are no longer smart enough, hard-working enough, visionaries and on the whole, unable to care for ourselves. Now other countries need to take care of us, we've become idiots and lazy.

Maybe those of us who couldn't afford a college education but thought on our feet through life experiences, actually worked hard, cared for our families and added to society are becoming extinct. Too bad for America as we are then left with many portfolio carrying college graduates with little incentive for anything since they plan to get rich in the stock market.

[Johnsocat]

True, but tariffs do NOT bring jobs back; they just make things more expensive for you and me.

All of the money raised from tariffs goes straight into the Government coffers.

Tariffs AND tax cuts, allong with some needed deregulation and bureaucratic red tape, WILL bring jobs back.
Additionally, our Nation will be more secure if we can again produce the equipment our military needs to protect us and our allies. Currently, for example, there is only one U.S. supplier of primers for bullets, and zero lead smelting plants.

[Johnsocat]

Funny how the correction and sacrifice doesn’t affect billionares, hmmmm!!!!????

What's funny is that due to bureaucratic over-regulation and constantly rising corporate taxes and cost of business is exactly WHY the referenced billionaires stopped employing U.S. workers and moved their operation to other countries.

[ithos]

What happened to this TOTV site rule?


Political discussion or references are strictly forbidden on Talk of the Villages and this would include but not be limited to mention of political parties, political individuals or any political topics. Moderators and Administrators retain the right to use their discretion and any politically related or implied thread or post will be removed. If a user continues to disregard this rule then the user account will be issued infractions/suspension.

I consider this more of an economic topic. This is an issue that is impacting the retirement funds of most of the people who live in TV. I hope we can keep it academic and not political.

[golfing eagles]

I consider this more of an economic topic. This is an issue that is impacting the retirement funds of most of the people who live in TV. I hope we can keep it academic and not political.

"Hope Springs Eternal"----Alexander Pope

[ithos]

We put our troops there because it benefits US interests over the entire world.

The only legitmate interests we had was to protect foreign sources of oil when we were not energy self sufficient.

We have absolutely no reason to have troops in Europe.

In 2014, Europe spent 1.3% of GDP, while we spent 3.7%. It has only been recently that they have boosted spending.

[Sunnyme]

Tariffs are simply a tax on the US public.

Most of the stuff imported from China can never be made here as cheaply, even with a 100% tariff. Even items that can will be manufactured in factories that are full of robots, not workers, so any benefits to employment numbers will be minimal.

Globalization is far from perfect, but it is preferable to isolationism.

somebody has to make all of those robots, and machine tools and build the automated manufacturing sites, we can do that in America.
Be American Buy American

[SoCalGal]

Let's get this straight: The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen.

Here's a headline from today's news: 70 Countries Respond to Trump

It shouldn't take too long to restore a level playing field.

In addition, I read that China dominates the global supply of raw tungsten required to make U.S. warships and tanks. U.S. currently produces 0% of its own tungsten. This must change.

[Bill14564]

somebody has to make all of those robots, and machine tools and build the automated manufacturing sites, we can do that in America.
Be American Buy American

Then the tariffs are not a punishment of other countries for making less expensive products but are actually arm twisting of the American public to buy American?

Buy American or we impose tariffs and tank your retirement accounts.

And if we can use the tariff income to offset tax breaks for billionaires then it’s a win-win.

[ithos]

Hogwash! Get an education, get a college degree, work in health care (which has a massive shortage). Manufacturing is not coming back to the US in large numbers. Get over it already!

Oh, yeah that makes sense. We can all get sick to boost our economic output. And the rest of the world is going to keep sending us all the stuff we use to manufacturer in exchange for dollars in which there is an infinite supply.

Get over what? I simply don't believe in the tooth fairy or think that a country can stay prosperous forever if it runs up trade deficits and government debt every year, decade after decade. Printing money doesn't count as manufacturing.

[kingofbeer]

The EU, Australia, Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and Israel are all negotiating their differences. The rest aren’t mentioned much? Perhaps it’s all part of deal making.
I think it is all fake news. They are just trying to crash the markets or manipulate the markets to grift money. Tariffs are coming out of your pocket.

[SoCalGal]

Trump graduated from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968 with a bachelor's degree in economics.

Wharton didn’t start offering an MBA program until 1972, though it had been offering undergraduate business education since the 1880s. Trump has occasionally referred to his degree as an “undergraduate MBA” or implied its equivalent to an advanced degree, but factually, it’s a bachelor’s, not an MBA. His official bio sticks to the B.S. in Economics line.

[kingofbeer]

Then the tariffs are not a punishment of other countries for making less expensive products but are actually arm twisting of the American public to buy American?

Buy American or we impose tariffs and tank your retirement accounts.

And if we can use the tariff income to offset tax breaks for billionaires then it’s a win-win.
Dumbest economic policies since Herbert Hoover (R) was President.

[SoCalGal]

They are just trying to crash the markets or manipulate the markets to grift money.

Who is "they" in this context?

[kingofbeer]

Oh, yeah that makes sense. We can all get sick to boost our economic output. And the rest of the world is going to keep sending us all the stuff we use to manufacturer in exchange for dollars in which there is an infinite supply.

Get over what? I simply don't believe in the tooth fairy or think that a country can stay prosperous forever if it runs up trade deficits and government debt every year, decade after decade. Printing money doesn't count as manufacturing.
Cut the spending. Cut defense spending, cut VA Benefits.

[SoCalGal]

Went Bankrupt 6 times, several other businesses went bust. Latest was DC hotel. Scotland and Ireland golf courses have been in the red since day one. Also, many in US.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who strives, who dares greatly, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. ~Theodore Roosevelt (April 23, 1910)

[Bogie Shooter]

Wharton didn’t start offering an MBA program until 1972, though it had been offering undergraduate business education since the 1880s. Trump has occasionally referred to his degree as an “undergraduate MBA” or implied its equivalent to an advanced degree, but factually, it’s a bachelor’s, not an MBA. His official bio sticks to the B.S. in Economics line.

But he does have a low golf handicap.

[SoCalGal]

We put our troops there because it benefits US interests over the entire world.

Still, they need to start paying the U.S. for their protection.

[SoCalGal]

I remember back in the 1990s when Walmart had a lot of USA made products.

Indeed, it was their claim to fame. Back in the ‘90s, Walmart leaned hard into the “Made in the USA” angle, and it was a big part of their public image. Sam Walton, the founder, kicked this off in the ‘80s with a campaign called “Bring It Back to America,” pushing suppliers to source domestically. By the early ‘90s, Walmart was plastering “Made in America” signs in stores, running ads with patriotic vibes, and claiming they were boosting U.S. jobs. A 1992 annual report bragged they’d added $1.5 billion in American-made goods that year alone. It wasn’t just PR fluff either—estimates from that era suggest 80-90% of their inventory was U.S.-sourced at one point, per trade journals and old news clips.

[ithos]

You sound like an "America First" bobblehead.

What loyal citizen doesn't believe that their country's interest should be considered a higher priority over all others?

[ithos]

Cut the spending. Cut defense spending, cut VA Benefits.

You can start cutting defense by bringing troops home which can be done if the country is energy independent and has a strong manufacturing economy.

As far as the VA is concerned I'll let someone else take that up.

[SoCalGal]

Pharmaceuticals/medicine are my main concern. We need to bring them home



Tariffs: An Opportunity for Drug Production in the USA – RedState (https://redstate.com/redstate-guest-editorial/2025/04/09/tariffs-an-opportunity-for-drug-production-in-the-usa-n2187638?utm_source=rsmorningbriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&bcid=4e2f96a515c447da631611e3ea1defa0e354e8183986e e8308e4bbab700477eb&lctg=18167739)

[ithos]

Is there anyone out there anticipating a "surprise" rate cut?

[Eg_cruz]

Better buy your new iPhone now before the possiblef 104% tariff materializes.
As they say, "its not over until the fat lady sings!"
I will wait for the new Tesla phone

[kingofbeer]

Still, they need to start paying the U.S. for their protection.
We are protecting our interests abroad. Stopping China and Russian aggression. Fighting terrorist organization. Do you think smaller countries have the intelligence and military to do this on their own? US has always been the "policeman" of the civilized world.

[DrHitch]

There are also things that MUST be made here. Pharmaceuticals are the most pressing, but there are others.
There is no product or service that "must" be made/created in the USA...we are only one of many players in the world's trade economy.

In fact, most pharmaceuticals are not manufactured in the USA ...Big Pharma needs to stop advertising on TV too.

[golfing eagles]

Global mfg will never relocate?????

It will if it is more profitable than manufacturing overseas.

[Aces4]

But he does have a low golf handicap.

Not to mention he's has the mental acuity to play golf.:a040:

[Aces4]

There is no product or service that "must" be made/created in the USA...we are only one of many players in the world's trade economy.

In fact, most pharmaceuticals are not manufactured in the USA ...Big Pharma needs to stop advertising on TV too.

Therein lies the rub. Would you want any important drug, you may require now or down the road, be use as an availability weapon in a dispute between countries? If I needed nitroglycerin spray, powder or tablets under my tongue, I would want access to them guaranteed.

[Aces4]

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who strives, who dares greatly, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. ~Theodore Roosevelt (April 23, 1910)

There you go.. excellent!

[Aces4]

Then the tariffs are not a punishment of other countries for making less expensive products but are actually arm twisting of the American public to buy American?

Buy American or we impose tariffs and tank your retirement accounts.

And if we can use the tariff income to offset tax breaks for billionaires then it’s a win-win.

I'll bet you wish there were more "billionaires" to float that boat.