Market up 1400 points today

[Rainger99]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

[rustyp]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again

IF the 1400 holds then only 5500 more required to get back to Dec 4.

[Normal]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

The tariffs really didn’t do anything but help in the long run. More jobs coming and now a screaming hot market too. I just can’t wait for all the price drops to hit once all these tariffs are dropped.

SCORE

[Topspinmo]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

Yet? :shocked:

[Taltarzac725]

Hang onto your seats. It is going to be a bumpy ride.

[JohnN]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

Well, it's lost 1,000 of the 1,400 as of 1 p.m.
I'm still looking for my wife.
I found an opening for a roofer, she's nimble on her feet.

[dewilson58]

Bottom Bouncing.

:sigh:

[frayedends]

Hang onto your seats. It is going to be a bumpy ride.

Yup, bumpy. Every bit of news swings things. As more and more countries actually negotiate the tariffs things will be in constant flux. Buy the dips.

[rustyp]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again

IF the 1400 holds then only 5500 more required to get back to Dec 4.

Hoped your bride enjoyed her day off.
DJI minus 7461 since Dec 4.

[kansasr]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

That didn't age well!

[Boffin]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

The stock market Dow Jones Industrial Average was up 1400 points earlier today. It did not stay there closing down at 320. Now get to work.

[Rainger99]

The stock market Dow Jones Industrial Average was up 1400 points earlier today. It did not stay there closing down at 320. Now get to work.

But she pointed out that two years ago the Dow closed at 33,485. It closed at 37645 today so it is up 4160 in two years. According to her calculations, we are up 12.4%! That is the problem with education!!!

[Bill14564]

But she pointed out that two years ago the Dow closed at 33,485. It closed at 37645 today so it is up 4160 in two years. According to her calculations, we are up 12.4%! That is the problem with education!!!

And two weeks ago you were up 27.1% … what a difference a week makes. Now, does it look like going forward things are going to be like the last two years or the last two weeks?

[Rainger99]

Now, does it look like going forward things are going to be like the last two years or the last two weeks?

If I could predict the market, I would have retired 20 years ago!

That being said, I think Covid was a far more serious threat to the world economy than a tariff dispute. And the stock market was on fire during Covid so I am optimistic.

[bob47]

IRA RMDs for 2025 were calculated on the high value of the portfolio at the end of 2024. This could be a big percentage withdrawal this year. We'll see.

[MorTech]

I am now forced to look for work as a hedge fund manager. Not many positions on Monster.com

Hooter's is hiring.

[Markdally]

Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again

IF the 1400 holds then only 5500 more required to get back to Dec 4.

If you’re tired of trying to time the market or holding on for dear life I have an answer. I bought a subscription last year that changed my life!!

[Dahabs]

The tariffs really didn’t do anything but help in the long run. More jobs coming and now a screaming hot market too. I just can’t wait for all the price drops to hit once all these tariffs are dropped.

SCORE

Good luck with that!

[MicRoDrafting]

UNFORTUNATELY
the Tariffs are NOT going
to be dropped anytime soon

you appear to be missing the
picture behind the purpose …

… to TANK the World Economy
and Create a Great Depression,

the likes we have
never seen before

[rsmurano]

Opening market stats don’t mean anything, you have to look at what it closed at.
My view is: if the market is high and my holdings are high, then I might be selling, if the market is low in the morning and I’m looking at certain holdings to pull the trigger on, it might be time to buy.

I don’t care what the market is doing right now. Until we get some tariff trade agreements settled with many nations, or doge has found trillions of $$$ that will save of taxpayers money, or some other revolutionary news, it’s going to be a bumpy ride. if you are sitting on cash and ready to get back in the market when the time seems right, it might be a while

[bowlingal]

nope....you have to wait till 4PM for the final tally. Market value at 10AM doesn't count

[skarra]

No good will come from tariffs other than to enable a new coalition of world partners lead by BRICS. China is loving this - we're basically saying we want no part of leading the world and someone else needs to do it.

Sad times for us, but the beginning of a new empire which ultimately might be good for the world in helping distribute the wealth more evenly.

[RoseyRed]

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Well, it's lost 1,000 of the 1,400 as of 1 p.m.
I'm still looking for my wife.
I found an opening for a roofer, she's nimble on her feet.

[Rwirish]

Guess again.

[Rainger99]

Some facts on the 1929 crash.

From its peak of 381.17 on September 3, 1929, to its low of 198.60 on November 13, 1929, the Dow declined by about 48%.

The market reached its low on July 8, 1932. The market was 41.22, representing an 89.2% drop from its 1929 peak.

The Dow finally surpassed its 1929 high on November 23, 1954, when it closed at 382.74.

[GladysM2024]

It did not last, so your plans for her will have to change.

[LonnyP]

Short lived. #morewinning

[skarra]

Are we tired of winning yet?

We need young blood and NEW ideas to lead the country, not old fools.

[Normal]

Now we meet with the 1000 pound gorilla, China. Neither side is looking to back down. So down, down, down will go the market.

[greg.turay]

It looks like my wife won’t have to go back to work!

At the end of the day she should be filling out applications.

[Stu from NYC]

UNFORTUNATELY
the Tariffs are NOT going
to be dropped anytime soon

you appear to be missing the
picture behind the purpose …

… to TANK the World Economy
and Create a Great Depression,

the likes we have
never seen before

Guess you are a charter member of the world conspiracy theory club.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Here's why I'm not too bothered by all this volatility. The long game is to get the U.S. and its corporation productivity back on better footing. Sometimes you have to shake the box to get the items to resettle more favorably.

Between 2000 and 2010, the DJIA pretty much sat around and hovered at about 10,000 points. It was stagnant between Y2K bug fears and the great real estate bubble in 2008 with the technology bubble bursting in between.

10 years of nothing happening. Then between 2010 and 2020, it quadrupled to over 40,000 points. 45 or 46 at a high. We are still at around 36,000 points - still WAYYYY better off than we were just 20 years ago,

We have been up and down between low/mid 40's and high 30,000 points since the global COVID issue (scam or not is another topic). The last half-decade has been relatively stagnant at about 40,000 points (give or take 5,000).

So, if you have cash, if you are a dollar cost average contributor, just wait it out. You do NOT want to cash out now and miss out on the potential of quadrupling again in the next 10 years.

Let the big macro game play out and we will be better off as a country. China has to be taken to task and this imbalance resolved now while we can still do it. Too much longer and it will be a lost battle. It is a battle we MUST win.

[RickyLee]

No good will come from tariffs other than to enable a new coalition of world partners lead by BRICS. China is loving this - we're basically saying we want no part of leading the world and someone else needs to do it.


Sad times for us, but the beginning of a new empire which ultimately might be good for the world in helping distribute the wealth more evenly.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking, let China take over leading the world and distributing the wealth
😬😂🤣🤣🤣

[jimjamuser]

If I could predict the market, I would have retired 20 years ago!

That being said, I think Covid was a far more serious threat to the world economy than a tariff dispute. And the stock market was on fire during Covid so I am optimistic.
If you are Canadian, which will you remember longer - Covid or being let down by the country that you FOUGHT with in 2 World Wars?

[Rainger99]

Dow surges 2,000 points, Nasdaq jumps 7%!!

My wife is happy!!

[golfing eagles]

All I can say is that I should have bought the .VIX last week

[Aces4]

If you are Canadian, which will you remember longer - Covid or being let down by the country that you FOUGHT with in 2 World Wars?

Or will you remember longer how you wouldn't agree to fair trade?:thumbup:

[Pballer]

Now that the insiders finished loading up on stocks, it was time for the tariffs to come off and say that was the plan all along.

[jimjamuser]

Or will you remember longer how you wouldn't agree to fair trade?:thumbup:
Canada did NOT start the tariff fight.

[Rainger99]

Or will you remember longer how you wouldn't agree to fair trade?:thumbup:

Before the current Trade Disputes, Canada had the following tariffs:

- Dairy products: Up to 298% (e.g., butter) and 245% (e.g., cheese).
- Poultry: Up to 238% (e.g., chicken).
- Eggs: Around 163%.

The tariffs were to protect Canada’s farmers.

[Aces4]

Canada did NOT start the tariff fight.

They only created the need for it, right?

[Aces4]

Now that the insiders finished loading up on stocks, it was time for the tariffs to come off and say that was the plan all along.

Yeah, we all know only insiders can load up on stocks.:icon_hungry:

[Stu from NYC]

Before the current Trade Disputes, Canada had the following tariffs:

- Dairy products: Up to 298% (e.g., butter) and 245% (e.g., cheese).
- Poultry: Up to 238% (e.g., chicken).
- Eggs: Around 163%.

The tariffs were to protect Canada’s farmers.

Amazing how some people think it is ok for other countries to take advantage of us

[kkingston57]

But she pointed out that two years ago the Dow closed at 33,485. It closed at 37645 today so it is up 4160 in two years. According to her calculations, we are up 12.4%! That is the problem with education!!!

Proves the point that you can manipulate numbers. Like in a dip,stocks go from 3000 to 1500 and the dip is 50% but when stock goes up from 1500 to 3000 the rise will need to be 100%

[Whatnext]

Before the current Trade Disputes, Canada had the following tariffs:

- Dairy products: Up to 298% (e.g., butter) and 245% (e.g., cheese).
- Poultry: Up to 238% (e.g., chicken).
- Eggs: Around 163%.

The tariffs were to protect Canada’s farmers.

Those rates only kicked in if imports exceeded a certain amount.
To date, those amounts have not been exceeded, and no US exporter has paid them.

[Caymus]

Those rates only kicked in if imports exceeded a certain amount.
To date, those amounts have not been exceeded, and no US exporter has paid them.

or to guarantee that imports from the US are very low?

[Aces4]

Those rates only kicked in if imports exceeded a certain amount.
To date, those amounts have not been exceeded, and no US exporter has paid them.

That's called a tariff- barrier.

[Bill14564]

They only created the need for it, right?

Creating the need for it would be considered starting it, no? What was the need, what was the problem and how did raising tariffs solve it?

[Bill14564]

Those rates only kicked in if imports exceeded a certain amount.
To date, those amounts have not been exceeded, and no US exporter has paid them.

There are those pesky facts again.

[Stu from NYC]

Proves the point that you can manipulate numbers. Like in a dip,stocks go from 3000 to 1500 and the dip is 50% but when stock goes up from 1500 to 3000 the rise will need to be 100%

The problem with you logic is if you stay the course in the long run you are the winner.

[daniel200]

The tariff reversal was announced at 1:18 today. However at 1:05, there was a very large uptick in s&p500 volume. Someone had inside information. Who do you think it was?

[44Apple]

The tariff reversal was announced at 1:18 today. However at 1:05, there was a very large uptick in s&p500 volume. Someone had inside information. Who do you think it was?

Dear Leader?

[dewilson58]

The tariff reversal was announced at 1:18 today. However at 1:05, there was a very large uptick in s&p500 volume. Someone had inside information. Who do you think it was?

No tariff reversal.

[Bill14564]

No tariff reversal.

Fooled a whole lot of people then.

[Aces4]

Creating the need for it would be considered starting it, no? What was the need, what was the problem and how did raising tariffs solve it?

It's fairly simple and I'll spell it out for those that don't understand. The process is used to create equal trade with other countries whether it be their tariffs, VATS, excise fees, or non-tariff barriers. Obviously, it will fluctuate depending on the country with whom they are speaking. As reiterated today, this is to make all countries successful.. including us.

[dewilson58]

Fooled a whole lot of people then.

Pause................not Reversal.................BIG difference.

[Aces4]

Those rates only kicked in if imports exceeded a certain amount.
To date, those amounts have not been exceeded, and no US exporter has paid them.

Thank you for pointing out the problem with restrictive trade. No one wants to export past a certain number if they are then penalized for any additional product imported to the said country.

[Bill14564]

It's fairly simple and I'll spell it out for those that don't understand. The process is used to create equal trade with other countries whether it be their tariffs, VATS, excise fees, or non-tariff barriers. Obviously, it will fluctuate depending on the country with whom they are speaking. As reiterated today, this is to make all countries successful.. including us.

Equal trade requires equal resources, equal need, and equal ability to pay. When you are the largest economy in the world there isn’t much that will be equal. Unfortunately, that requires a level of understanding that is beyond “fairly simple”.

[Bill14564]

Pause................not Reversal.................BIG difference.

Nope. Binary condition - there are or there are not. Yesterday there were, today there are not. Tomorrow… ?

EDIT: Sure, there is a promise of more ignorance to come, but that is a given.

[Aces4]

Equal trade requires equal resources, equal need, and equal ability to pay. When you are the largest economy in the world there isn’t much that will be equal. Unfortunately, that requires a level of understanding that is beyond “fairly simple”.

And that's why each case will be negotiated separately for those who have not been paying attention.

[Aces4]

Nope. Binary condition - there are or there are not. Yesterday there were, today there are not. Tomorrow… ?

EDIT: Sure, there is a promise of more ignorance to come, but that is a given.

So a TV show nor a hockey or baseball game cannot be paused? Ignorance is a closed mind that cannot contemplate this may have a very beneficial result for everyone and was truly needed as indicated by numbers of elected officials over the past 25-30 years. But then again, what do all those people know?

[Rainger99]

Those rates only kicked in if imports exceeded a certain amount.
To date, those amounts have not been exceeded, and no US exporter has paid them.

I believe that is true. But from what I have read, most American companies can’t afford to get into the business because as soon as they are successful, the tariffs kick in.

It takes a fair amount of work and money to set up a business to export goods to a foreign country.

I don’t think too many people are interested in selling a product to a country where as soon as you get the supply chain set up and are successful, the other country then puts enormous tariffs on additional products that you try to sell - effectively putting the American company out of business in Canada as soon as it hits the Canadian quota.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Equal trade requires equal resources, equal need, and equal ability to pay. When you are the largest economy in the world there isn’t much that will be equal. Unfortunately, that requires a level of understanding that is beyond “fairly simple”.
Disagree. Why should a country/company charge based on a sliding scale of "equity?" A company / country should charge based on cost of R&D, labor, production, marketing, shipping, taxes/levies, and then a "fair" amount of profit. IMHO, that's no greater than 10%, preferably 5%.

If a buyer cannot afford the producer's costs plus profit, then they should not or cannot purchase. The cost of the good should not be altered on a sliding scale based on a potential consumer's inequality of resources, need, ability to pay, etc.

Honestly, how does one quantify consumers' "Need?" Many needs are just wants. What about quantifying the consumer's ability to pay? No buyer says, "Sure, I can afford to pay triple for product X, hang on a second while I crack my wallet wide open."

What you are promoting is not a capitalist system of trade. I don't know what you are proposing beit some kind of socialism or communism, but it is certainly not capitalist.

I'm not a former free-trade minister or anything like that, so my opinion on the matter is just that.

[mraines]

UNFORTUNATELY
the Tariffs are NOT going
to be dropped anytime soon

you appear to be missing the
picture behind the purpose …

… to TANK the World Economy
and Create a Great Depression,

the likes we have
never seen before
Unfortunately, too many here have blinders on and cannot see this.

[Bill14564]

...

What you are promoting is not a capitalist system of trade. I don't know what you are proposing beit some kind of socialism or communism, but it is certainly not capitalist.

I'm not a former free-trade minister or anything like that, so my opinion on the matter is just that.

Not proposing anything of the sort.

I was trying to state that it is unrealistic to expect a trade balance between the US and nearly any other country. The US has a lot more people than say Madagascar. Even if the per capita trade balance was equal, the US would have a trade deficit simply due to our larger population. There is nothing that Madagascar can do to change that regardless of how high the tariffs are set.

We can set truly reciprocal tariffs to get to a level playing field. That level might be 0% tariff or it might be 20% tariff but it can be the same. What is not possible is to set a tariff high enough to force a small country to purchase as much from the US as we purchase from them.

What higher tariffs can do is increase the price to the US consumer until they can no longer afford the imported product. An increase in prices is the definition of inflation. Driving inflation up and raising the price of a product until it is out of reach of the consumer can't be good for America.

[rsmurano]

1 day means nothing. We need substantial changes in place to see any pivot. We are not there yet

[Stu from NYC]

I believe that is true. But from what I have read, most American companies can’t afford to get into the business because as soon as they are successful, the tariffs kick in.

It takes a fair amount of work and money to set up a business to export goods to a foreign country.

I don’t think too many people are interested in selling a product to a country where as soon as you get the supply chain set up and are successful, the other country then puts enormous tariffs on additional products that you try to sell - effectively putting the American company out of business in Canada as soon as it hits the Canadian quota.

I do think you nailed it!:BigApplause:

[jimjamuser]

It's fairly simple and I'll spell it out for those that don't understand. The process is used to create equal trade with other countries whether it be their tariffs, VATS, excise fees, or non-tariff barriers. Obviously, it will fluctuate depending on the country with whom they are speaking. As reiterated today, this is to make all countries successful.. including us.
Actually, the plan is to make America weaker and create chaos. This can be proven by the really BAD action of the bond market, where among other things, Japan sold all or a large quantity of US bonds. Other countries also did the same. This shows a worldwide doubt in the direction that the US is going.

[jimjamuser]

And that's why each case will be negotiated separately for those who have not been paying attention.
Cause a problem and then take CREDIT for fixing it. You can't fool ALL the people ALL the time.

[jimjamuser]

I believe that is true. But from what I have read, most American companies can’t afford to get into the business because as soon as they are successful, the tariffs kick in.

It takes a fair amount of work and money to set up a business to export goods to a foreign country.

I don’t think too many people are interested in selling a product to a country where as soon as you get the supply chain set up and are successful, the other country then puts enormous tariffs on additional products that you try to sell - effectively putting the American company out of business in Canada as soon as it hits the Canadian quota.
Canada is our friend and BEST trading partner. Any MINOR imperfections in trade can be BEST taken to International Court for resolution. Disrupting world trade (and making enemies out of friends) just BLOWS BACK on the US's reputation as a STABLE trading partner. Already we have alienated Japan enough to pull their money out of US bonds. That scare CAUSED the US to yesterday do an only PARTIAL pull back in Tariffs. The US is causing World Economic chaos. I wonder which country benefits most from all that?

[jimjamuser]

1 day means nothing. We need substantial changes in place to see any pivot. We are not there yet
As a general principle that is true, but the market direction now is very much DOWNWARD.

[daniel200]

Pause................not Reversal.................BIG difference.

You are funny.

[dewilson58]

Nope. Binary condition - there are or there are not. Yesterday there were, today there are not. Tomorrow… ?

EDIT: Sure, there is a promise of more ignorance to come, but that is a given.

"Binary condition - there are or there are not."...............well if this is your belief, then there never were any so definitely there was no reversal.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[dewilson58]

You are funny.

Thank you.

[JohnN]

So what I've learned from this thread:
Don't listen to Rainger, don't listen to anyone,
we really don't know (but it looks bad to me)

[Aces4]

Actually, the plan is to make America weaker and create chaos. This can be proven by the really BAD action of the bond market, where among other things, Japan sold all or a large quantity of US bonds. Other countries also did the same. This shows a worldwide doubt in the direction that the US is going.

I think it shows other countries trying to hang on to their lucrative trade arrangements. America can be pretty self-sufficient if push comes to shove but the goal is for every country to be successful and flourish.

I think you should wait for the results before calling the race over.

[Aces4]

Canada is our friend and BEST trading partner. Any MINOR imperfections in trade can be BEST taken to International Court for resolution. Disrupting world trade (and making enemies out of friends) just BLOWS BACK on the US's reputation as a STABLE trading partner. Already we have alienated Japan enough to pull their money out of US bonds. That scare CAUSED the US to yesterday do an only PARTIAL pull back in Tariffs. The US is causing World Economic chaos. I wonder which country benefits most from all that?

This is the funniest resolution to the issue I have seen to date. We're going to the International Court for fairness?

The USA has been the steady rock in the world and will continue to be. I truly believe other countries would negotiate more rapidly if it wasn't for the negative dialog coming from certain people in this country who only have their own interests at heart.

[Stu from NYC]

I think it shows other countries trying to hang on to their lucrative trade arrangements. America can be pretty self-sufficient if push comes to shove but the goal is for every country to be successful and flourish.

I think you should wait for the results before calling the race over.

Good luck getting him to change his point of view.

[dewilson58]

Retaliation........................Comments in Chinese Fortune Cookies are going to turn very nasty.

Read with Caution.

:cryin2:

[kkingston57]

If I could predict the market, I would have retired 20 years ago!

That being said, I think Covid was a far more serious threat to the world economy than a tariff dispute. And the stock market was on fire during Covid so I am optimistic.

Problem now is that we have a pres who can not or will not admit he made a mistake. He has said this in at least one of his books. He is looking for a way out. We still have not seen the direct problems that tariffs will create.

[kkingston57]

No tariff reversal.

Correct and the market reacted back to it's downward trend on 4-10

[kkingston57]

I think it shows other countries trying to hang on to their lucrative trade arrangements. America can be pretty self-sufficient if push comes to shove but the goal is for every country to be successful and flourish.

I think you should wait for the results before calling the race over.

Wait till Christmas time. How much of the stuff that we buy comes from China and/or other highly tariffed countries. Might help get rid of all their 2-3 year old stuff that nobody really needs,