Tariff Stare Down

[MorTech]

Looks like China and the EU are the only ones not to blink :)

[Stu from NYC]

Stay tuned

[Aces4]

Looks like China and the EU are the only ones not to blink :)

And now the EU is warning China not to overflood their markets with China's products and ruin the EU's economy.

[Normal]

And now the EU is warning China not to overflood their markets with China's products and ruin the EU's economy.

The EU has offered to go the no tariffs route on all industrial goods. It’s just China.

[Stu from NYC]

The EU has offered to go the no tariffs route on all industrial goods. It’s just China.

I suspect this was the plan all along.

[kkingston57]

Looks like China and the EU are the only ones not to blink :)

Islands inhabited with penguins only were 1st in line.

[MorTech]

Correction...EU blinked at the last possible moment.
I am not sure if Canada blinked. I can't find conformation.

[MorTech]

And now the EU is warning China not to overflood their markets with China's products and ruin the EU's economy.

It took China many years to negotiate a trade deal with the EU and it ended up being pointless. The EU (and UK) economy is already ruined in a sort of retarded suicide pact kinda way.

[MorTech]

Islands inhabited with penguins only were 1st in line.

The penguins import fish, timberland boots and buffalo wings from the USA so they were the first to go "no tariff" ...because they are smarter than Canadians.

[MorTech]

I think Trump wants a 10% import tariff and then negotiate a zero/zero tariff with certain countries with "most favored nation" status. That would make sense.

[Arctic Fox]

Very naive to think that China would back down

They have the rest of the World to trade with so they certainly don't need to kow-tow to the USA

Losing face is a big no-no to Asians generally

[dkintzer1]

They cannot afford to lose access to the largest economy in the world. They sell us way more than we sell them. In addition, many more companies are moving operations out of China. This will be one giant financial problem for China undoubtedly. This is the art of the deal in action in real time. My money, Itterly, is on Trump and the USA.

[La lamy]

… The Art of the Deal.

Period.

Looks like a joke of a deal after tariffs were once again flip flopped yesterday, on Twitter!!!!

[NoMo50]

Very naive to think that China would back down

They have the rest of the World to trade with so they certainly don't need to kow-tow to the USA

Losing face is a big no-no to Asians generally

Not naive at all. This was a move on the global chessboard thought out well in advance. And yes...the "saving face" aspect plays into the anticipated response.

China's economy simply does not work without the markets in the USA. Period. They have effectively been placed into a box, all alone. We'll see how they respond.

[Federspiel]

Hope we don't back China into a corner. We could not handle 3 fronts militarily: Taiwan, Ukraine, and the Middle East.

[coralway]

Nothing to do with tariffs. Market manipulation. Those who were in the know before tariffs were announced sold, and avoided the slaughter. Pure market manipulation.

[Cliff Fr]

All of these comments are based on speculation just like the stock market itself.

[Danube]

They cannot afford to lose access to the largest economy in the world. They sell us way more than we sell them. In addition, many more companies are moving operations out of China. This will be one giant financial problem for China undoubtedly. This is the art of the deal in action in real time. My money, Itterly, is on Trump and the USA.

Nope.

About 9.8% of China’s foreign trade in 2024 was with the United States.

It's no longer the 70's.

[Danube]

zzz

[opinionist]

Tyrants cannot understand that they don't have the leverage. Yes, China can shut off the few goods imported from the US. Can they sell their cheap stuff elsewhere? We will find out.

[Danube]

Tyrants cannot understand that they don't have the leverage. Yes, China can shut off the few goods imported from the US. Can they sell their cheap stuff elsewhere? We will find out.

About 9.8% of China’s foreign trade in 2024 was with the United States.

What percent of US consumer items are made in China? Check your Walmart.

[Paper1]

Someone on this forum will have to explain to me how replacing foreign made goods with union made US products is going to tame inflation. Two weeks ago China was allowing us to purchase real goods and products with freshly printed US dollars that have nothing backing them up. Heavily criticized Walmart has kept more families in middle class than anything I’m aware except for those freshly printed dollars. The old saying comes to mind, “be careful what you ask for”. IMHO

[waterflower]

Currency war

[dewilson58]

Looks like a joke of a deal after tariffs were once again flip flopped yesterday, on Twitter!!!!

Can't negotiate, document, sign +50 country deals in a couple days............it takes time.

:loco::loco:

No "flip flopped"

[MrFlorida]

Hope we don't back China into a corner. We could not handle 3 fronts militarily: Taiwan, Ukraine, and the Middle East.

Especially since we don't manufacture anything anymore.

[rustyp]

Someone on this forum will have to explain to me how replacing foreign made goods with union made US products is going to tame inflation. Two weeks ago China was allowing us to purchase real goods and products with freshly printed US dollars that have nothing backing them up. Heavily criticized Walmart has kept more families in middle class than anything I’m aware except for those freshly printed dollars. The old saying comes to mind, “be careful what you ask for”. IMHO

I agree. Let's not forget prices were to be lower day 1. Day 1 of what ? How long will it take to build a factory, hire, train, modify supply lines, etc. Now how does that compete with cheap labor ? Keep feeding us the smoke and mirror tricks. Eggs down 79%. Well that means they are still higher. So what is the strategy? Prices will dramatically increase fairly quickly then we announce some stop gap plan and inflation rate slows some over the short term chaosis that was just created. At the same time we start selectively removing the new tariffs that were just incorporated. There you go - success. Smoke em if you got em. I have a list of a dozen goods like grocery, gas, auto, etc all from local venders in our area on Jan 19 2025. I'll publish that list Jan 19 2026. Any bets - prices up or down.

[BillyGrown]

Tyrants cannot understand that they don't have the leverage. Yes, China can shut off the few goods imported from the US. Can they sell their cheap stuff elsewhere? We will find out.

Tariffs certainly put Japan in their place back in the early 70s. Thankfully everything seems to be handled well so far. There are too too many microeconomic views here on this forum while our leadership has a much more macroeconomic view that will help us all in the long run. Alas, is instant gratification creeping into our senior population?

[Danube]

Tyrants cannot understand that they don't have the leverage. Yes, China can shut off the few goods imported from the US. Can they sell their cheap stuff elsewhere? We will find out.

They already sell about 90% of their goods elsewhere. The world consists of more than the US and China.

[Danube]

Especially since we don't manufacture anything anymore.

F-35, 155mm shells, Cybertruck...

[MollyJo]

Very naive to think that China would back down

They have the rest of the World to trade with so they certainly don't need to kow-tow to the USA

Losing face is a big no-no to Asians generally
Yeah…don’t poke the bear!

[Aces4]

Nope.

About 9.8% of China’s foreign trade in 2024 was with the United States.

It's no longer the 70's.

China's products are all over America. They just got clever and ship them out through different venues.

AI Overview
Some countries, like Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, and Malaysia, have been identified as playing a role in facilitating the export of Chinese products to the US, potentially to evade tariffs, by shifting assembly operations to these countries and then exporting finished goods to the US from there.

[Aces4]

Tyrants cannot understand that they don't have the leverage. Yes, China can shut off the few goods imported from the US. Can they sell their cheap stuff elsewhere? We will find out.

The EU has advised China not to plan on dumping their extra product on them and hurting their economy.

[coconutmama]

Nothing to do with tariffs. Market manipulation. Those who were in the know before tariffs were announced sold, and avoided the slaughter. Pure market manipulation.

Insider Trading

[Aces4]

Someone on this forum will have to explain to me how replacing foreign made goods with union made US products is going to tame inflation. Two weeks ago China was allowing us to purchase real goods and products with freshly printed US dollars that have nothing backing them up. Heavily criticized Walmart has kept more families in middle class than anything I’m aware except for those freshly printed dollars. The old saying comes to mind, “be careful what you ask for”. IMHO

We get such a deal don't we? While we buy low quality stuff from China and save all that money, we then peel out a fortune in taxes at home for the jobless, Medicaid, food stamps, housing/rental assistance and so forth.

[coconutmama]

Tariffs certainly put Japan in their place back in the early 70s. Thankfully everything seems to be handled well so far. There are too too many microeconomic views here on this forum while our leadership has a much more macroeconomic view that will help us all in the long run. Alas, is instant gratification creeping into our senior population?

No. Not instant gratification. We want to be alive to see our economy & 401K’s get back to where they were a few months ago.

[Normal]

We get such a deal don't we? While we buy low quality stuff from China and save all that money, we then peel out a fortune in taxes at home for the unemployed, Medicaid, food stamps, housing/rental assistance and so forth.

Yes, that’s what it amounts to. Walmart and Dollar General will have to establish new supply chains. Actually Dollar General should be named Chinese Mart.

The CHIPs and American Science Act Boondoggle of waste is now being replaced with action and reality. If only we could claw back that 200 billion in waste. Hopefully we get chip manufacturing up and running fast enough here. We actually had great numbers for inflation this month at negative.1 percent.

[Aces4]

I agree. Let's not forget prices were to be lower day 1. Day 1 of what ? How long will it take to build a factory, hire, train, modify supply lines, etc. Now how does that compete with cheap labor ? Keep feeding us the smoke and mirror tricks. Eggs down 79%. Well that means they are still higher. So what is the strategy? Prices will dramatically increase fairly quickly then we announce some stop gap plan and inflation rate slows some over the short term chaos that was just created. At the same time we start selectively removing the new tariffs that were just incorporated. There you go - success. Smoke em if you got em. I have a list of a dozen goods like grocery, gas, auto, etc all from local venders in our area on Jan 19 2025. I'll publish that list Jan 19 2026. Any bets - prices up or down.

When factories were closed down and moved overseas, it wasn't because the American worker quit.. it was because of the artificially low priced products being dumped here from offshore manufacturing. Artificially because we all pay out of our pockets for the jobless population, big time.

I miss the high quality products from American hands. Shoes, clothing, machinery, furniture.. you name it. Now we have a lot of disposable cr*p.

[Aces4]

No. Not instant gratification. We want to be alive to see our economy & 401K’s get back to where they were a few months ago.

If you're over 65 and still at the casino shooting craps, (stock market), you've been exposed to volatility when you should be in safe investments and FDIC insured.

The market will recover, it always does eventually. If you are invested in China, you may be out of luck.

[SoCalGal]

Islands inhabited with penguins only were 1st in line.

You understand why uninhabited islands were included, right?

Tariffs, which imposed a baseline 10% tax on imports from over 180 countries and territories, included remote and uninhabited locations like the Heard and McDonald Islands, an Australian territory in the sub-Antarctic with no human population. Several explanations have emerged for this unusual decision.

One key rationale, articulated by U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, is the aim to close potential loopholes in trade policy. Lutnick argued that listing even uninhabited territories prevents other countries from exploiting them as conduits to ship goods into the U.S. and evade tariffs. This perspective suggests a deliberate strategy to ensure no region, regardless of its population or economic activity, could be used to circumvent the tariffs, drawing from past experiences where countries like China rerouted exports through third parties during Trump's first term.

[SoCalGal]

Nope.

About 9.8% of China’s foreign trade in 2024 was with the United States. It's no longer in the 70's.

In the early 2000s, the U.S. was a much larger destination for Chinese exports, often accounting for 20-25% of China’s total export market. By 2018, this had already dropped to around 19% of exports (still higher than the 2024 figure). Total trade (exports plus imports) with the U.S. made up a larger share as well—closer to 13-15% in the mid-2010s. The decline reflects China’s growing trade with regions like Southeast Asia, the EU, and Belt and Road countries, alongside trade war tariffs and supply chain shifts starting in 2018.

A 70% share would imply an overwhelming dependence on the U.S. market, which never materialized. China’s trade has always been spread across multiple partners—Hong Kong, Japan, Europe, and others—even before its modern diversification push. The U.S. influence was substantial but never approached that extreme level, even in the most U.S.-centric years.

[rustyp]

When factories were closed down and moved overseas, it wasn't because the American worker quit.. it was because of the artificially low priced products being dumped here from offshore manufacturing. Artificially because we all pay out of our pockets for the jobless population, big time.

I miss the high quality products from American hands. Shoes, clothing, machinery, furniture.. you name it. Now we have a lot of disposable cr*p.

My Toyota Camry delivers me all the quality I require.
My $198 50 inch Onn tv works just fine.
My Whirlpool dishwasher broke in December.

[jimjamuser]

Not naive at all. This was a move on the global chessboard thought out well in advance. And yes...the "saving face" aspect plays into the anticipated response.

China's economy simply does not work without the markets in the USA. Period. They have effectively been placed into a box, all alone. We'll see how they respond.
I am wondering how this global economic fight initiated by the US helps world economics. And then is there any :unintended consequences that get reflected back on the US. We certainly are NOT making any FRIENDS in the free world. And I wonder if we are making any friends in the non-free world?

[GWilliams]

Looks like China and the EU are the only ones not to blink :)

Negotiations are ongoing.

[fdpaq0580]

Negotiations are ongoing.

Tariffs on hold for 90 days? Sounds like "we (?)" blinked when they didn't.

[fdpaq0580]

Currency war

AKA "economic terrorism" by some.

[Pugchief]

My $198 50 inch Onn tv works just fine.
My Whirlpool dishwasher broke in December.

Not at all random or anecdotal. [/eyeroll]

[jimjamuser]

Tariffs on hold for 90 days? Sounds like "we (?)" blinked when they didn't.
I bet that the newspapers in Canada have NICE things to say about us.

[fdpaq0580]

I bet that the newspapers in Canada have NICE things to say about us.

Only if by "NICE" you mean "HUMILIATING". PS, and well deserved, imo

[Normal]

I am wondering how this global economic fight initiated by the US helps world economics. And then is there any :unintended consequences that get reflected back on the US. We certainly are NOT making any FRIENDS in the free world. And I wonder if we are making any friends in the non-free world?

This fight was “initiated” long before now. Tariffs are used by almost every country, they manipulate trade. We have turned the other cheek for way too long. It is correct to address deficit and debt to get our country in order. Tariffs contribute to our trade deficit.

[eyc234]

Negotiations are ongoing.

:shrug: No proof of that! That is what has been said for the last 3 months and no arrangements.

[jimjamuser]

By the way, just a reminder that the trade agreements with Canada and Mexico that Mr. T railed at and implied only an idiot would have signed and were so bad for the US, were His proposal USMCA from the g20 conference, 2019.
Not taking sides, just looking at history related to the current tariff situation to try and make sense of it.
The average person does NOT like CHANGE. They don't like to gamble, especially with hard earned money in investment accounts. They prefer economic STABILITY and investments with minimum downsides and a CONSTANT, while small upside. Today we have MAXIMUM financial change. Leaving the small investors perplexed and frightened. Small investors were surprised by the SUDDEN CHANGE to Tariffs for virtually everyone. The question then is, "What class of investors would BENEFIT in this NEW and quickly changing world". I would imagine that it would be those INVESTORS that ALWAYS have benefited from rapid change. Those that probably KNOW that the change is coming. That would be the upper 1 % in the US and world. They communicate with EACH other, not the lowly bottom feeding 99%. The 1% KNEW that radical universal tariffs would start the US market DOWN. So, that was their chance to SHORT the market. It was a no-brainer for the 1% and a fantastic opportunity, with zero risk. They just have to NOT be too greedy and get out before the market comes back. They can even BUY on the way back up. Likely they benefited from some sort of insider information.

[Topspinmo]

Islands inhabited with penguins only were 1st in line.

Maybe the penguins has high tariff on imported fish? Fish from middle of Congo want to get eaten with paying a tariff? :oops:

[Topspinmo]

The average person does NOT like CHANGE. They don't like to gamble, especially with hard earned money in investment accounts. They prefer economic STABILITY and investments with minimum downsides and a CONSTANT, while small upside. Today we have MAXIMUM financial change. Leaving the small investors perplexed and frightened. Small investors were surprised by the SUDDEN CHANGE to Tariffs for virtually everyone. The question then is, "What class of investors would BENEFIT in this NEW and quickly changing world". I would imagine that it would be those INVESTORS that ALWAYS have benefited from rapid change. Those that probably KNOW that the change is coming. That would be the upper 1 % in the US and world. They communicate with EACH other, not the lowly bottom feeding 99%. The 1% KNEW that radical universal tariffs would start the US market DOWN. So, that was their chance to SHORT the market. It was a no-brainer for the 1% and a fantastic opportunity, with zero risk. They just have to NOT be too greedy and get out before the market comes back. They can even BUY on the way back up. Likely they benefited from some sort of insider information.

Average persons have no investments especially in stock market.

[Topspinmo]

It doesn't.
And imho, our "leadership" doesn't understand the concept of friendship, and only wants tools that can be easily manipulated. Time will tell.
Have a nice day. 🙂

A friend don’t charge you double or triple.

[Aces4]

Losing in the ukraine... what is (western) Europe going to do about it? Invade?

Right now the discussion is about tariffs so I'm going to focus on the subject on hand and not bring up every other world issue of which I can think.

[Aces4]

My Toyota Camry delivers me all the quality I require.

I don't doubt that you like it, was it manufactured in their American plant?

AI Overview: Toyota Camry is assembled in the United States, specifically at Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) in Georgetown, Kentucky.

[Aces4]

I am wondering how this global economic fight initiated by the US helps world economics. And then is there any :unintended consequences that get reflected back on the US. We certainly are NOT making any FRIENDS in the free world. And I wonder if we are making any friends in the non-free world?

Perhaps you could go back to the people who over the past thirty years have claimed that something needs to be done about the trade inequities. They are silent now but then again, I'm not surprised.

[Aces4]

I bet that the newspapers in Canada have NICE things to say about us.

Seriously? You aren't going to look at what has been going on in full detail so you are educated on the when, wheres and whys but you're wondering how Canada's newpapers read? Yikes!:22yikes:

[rustyp]

I don't doubt that you like it, was it manufactured in their American plant?

AI Overview: Toyota Camry is assembled in the United States, specifically at Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) in Georgetown, Kentucky.

Japanese technology.

Independent of where a Camry is ASSEMBLED 100% of the parts are sourced from the same source - including Camrys made in Japan.

[Stu from NYC]

:shrug: No proof of that! That is what has been said for the last 3 months and no arrangements.

We have no way of knowing one way or another as to whether negotiations are going on but logically believe they are.

[Stu from NYC]

Tariffs on hold for 90 days? Sounds like "we (?)" blinked when they didn't.

Or we are getting what we asked for.

[Stu from NYC]

I don't doubt that you like it, was it manufactured in their American plant?

AI Overview: Toyota Camry is assembled in the United States, specifically at Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) in Georgetown, Kentucky.

And it is a very well made car

[Aces4]

The average person does NOT like CHANGE. They don't like to gamble, especially with hard earned money in investment accounts. They prefer economic STABILITY and investments with minimum downsides and a CONSTANT, while small upside. Today we have MAXIMUM financial change. Leaving the small investors perplexed and frightened. Small investors were surprised by the SUDDEN CHANGE to Tariffs for virtually everyone. The question then is, "What class of investors would BENEFIT in this NEW and quickly changing world". I would imagine that it would be those INVESTORS that ALWAYS have benefited from rapid change. Those that probably KNOW that the change is coming. That would be the upper 1 % in the US and world. They communicate with EACH other, not the lowly bottom feeding 99%. The 1% KNEW that radical universal tariffs would start the US market DOWN. So, that was their chance to SHORT the market. It was a no-brainer for the 1% and a fantastic opportunity, with zero risk. They just have to NOT be too greedy and get out before the market comes back. They can even BUY on the way back up. Likely they benefited from some sort of insider information.

So you didn't get the message tariffs were coming and the date? How did you miss that?

We had to go out for errands today and strangely enough, didn't see anyone shaking, cowering in corners, crying or red eyed or wringing their hands. The world is still turning and time is needed to accomplish the goal. Hopefully, trade will be balanced on the needs of every country so EVERY COUNTRY has the opportunity for fair trade without tariffs, excise taxes, VATS and non-tariff barriers.

Also bringing certain manufacturing back to the USA is critical for the security of this nation so essential supplies are not withheld from us if a disagreement or worse happens.

[Aces4]

Japanese technology

And American manufacturing skills, beautiful!

Architects may design homes but it's the labor which creates the finished product and often have to correct errors in the plans.

[Aces4]

Japanese technology.

Independent of where a Camry is ASSEMBLED 100% of the parts are sourced from the same source - including Camrys made in Japan.

And you're sure Americans could never cast or create identical parts because after all, we have become stupid and lazy. I whole heartedly disagree.

Ours is the country that built ships and airplanes quickly during WWII and is teaming with innovation and brilliance counter to what some would have us believe and continue to espouse. If you tell someone often enough that they can never do that, they begin to believe you.

[rustyp]

And American manufacturing skills, beautiful!

Architects may design homes but it's the labor which creates the finished product and often have to correct errors in the plans.

90% of assembly lines = robots. Robots don't make errors. Humans that program robots make errors.

[jimjamuser]

Seriously? You aren't going to look at what has been going on in full detail so you are educated on the when, wheres and whys but you're wondering how Canada's newpapers read? Yikes!:22yikes:
Yes, Canada is our LARGEST trading partner. Also until recently Canada was our friend and followed us into 2 World War. So now out of the BLUE (the red, white, and blue) we pull a fast one on them and lay Tariffs on them. We, the US of A, are the bad guys in this movie. We should be ashamed.

[Aces4]

Yes, Canada is our LARGEST trading partner. Also until recently Canada was our friend and followed us into 2 World War. So now out of the BLUE (the red, white, and blue) we pull a fast one on them and lay Tariffs on them. We, the US of A, are the bad guys in this movie. We should be ashamed.

Why don't you do some actual fact checking on Canadian tariffs and restrictions for trade with American and get back to us.

I am not ashamed and a fast one wasn't pulled and that language creates hate which isn't needed in the trade conversation.

I love Canada and Canadians even more. We have met some wonderful Canadians in The Villages. If Canada would agree to discuss the trade restrictions and policies with the USA, who is to say what deal could be worked out. Toxic hyperbole is a nonstarter and does no country any favors.

[Aces4]

90% of assembly lines = robots. Robots don't make errors. Humans that program robots make errors.

Good news, robot assembly lines, (which require human interaction), are in America and, therefore, we can bring that manufacturing back to the states.:wave:

[rustyp]

And you're sure Americans could never cast or create identical parts because after all, we have become stupid and lazy. I whole heartedly disagree.

Ours is the country that built ships and airplanes quickly during WWII and is teaming with innovation and brilliance counter to what some would have us believe and continue to espouse. If you tell someone often enough that they can never do that, they begin to believe you.

I believe we can cast or create parts identical. However I do believe in capitalism - best part at best price. I don't know how to cope with an uneven playing field. On the other hand I personally would be a hyprocrypt to prescribe to two wrongs make a right. Above my pay grade. As far as WW2 no other industrialized country was in the position we were due to the fact of our location remote from the battle fields and other frontliners having the misfortune of their infrastructures being wiped out.

[jimjamuser]

So you didn't get the message tariffs were coming and the date? How did you miss that?

We had to go out for errands today and strangely enough, didn't see anyone shaking, cowering in corners, crying or red eyed or wringing their hands. The world is still turning and time is needed to accomplish the goal. Hopefully, trade will be balanced on the needs of every country so EVERY COUNTRY has the opportunity for fair trade without tariffs, excise taxes, VATS and non-tariff barriers.

Also bringing certain manufacturing back to the USA is critical for the security of this nation so essential supplies are not withheld from us if a disagreement or worse happens.
I agree with the last paragraph. High end semiconductors, medical equipment, and national security equipment need to be made in the USA. The difference, I see, is that these things take years (maybe 3 or 4) to operationalize. A large factory might take 6 to 10 years to get going. AI and robotics need to be part of top end products. We have, at least, two advantages over China. We don't have to ship goods over a large ocean to get our products to us. When we trade with China they STEAL our technology. And our LARGEST market Canada is very close to us and up until recently, we had great working relations between us and Canada. China has the disadvantage of its political system.

[jimjamuser]

And you're sure Americans could never cast or create identical parts because after all, we have become stupid and lazy. I whole heartedly disagree.

Ours is the country that built ships and airplanes quickly during WWII and is teaming with innovation and brilliance counter to what some would have us believe and continue to espouse. If you tell someone often enough that they can never do that, they begin to believe you.
The US DID have some advantages before and after WW2. Back then we had a REAL middle class with wealth brought about by relatively good primary and secondary schools and large labor union participation. Also there was a tax system that favored the middle class and NOT the upper class like today.

[Aces4]

I agree with the last paragraph. High end semiconductors, medical equipment, and national security equipment need to be made in the USA. The difference, I see, is that these things take years (maybe 3 or 4) to operationalize. A large factory might take 6 to 10 years to get going. AI and robotics need to be part of top end products. We have, at least, two advantages over China. We don't have to ship goods over a large ocean to get our products to us. When we trade with China they STEAL our technology. And our LARGEST market Canada is very close to us and up until recently, we had great working relations between us and Canada. China has the disadvantage of its political system.

I agree with your statements for the most part in that I feel our relationship is going to recover with Canada and I hope they also will be successful with their new president at the helm.

Factories can be established far quicker than 6-10 years. It will be amazing what can happen here when our citizens have goals and jobs outlined for them. It was astonishing what the USA did for WWII after having a large number of our planes and ships destroyed. We need to pull together as a country, we will be up to the challenge.

[Stu from NYC]

Why don't you do some actual fact checking on Canadian tariffs and restrictions for trade with American and get back to us.

I am not ashamed and a fast one wasn't pulled and that language creates hate which isn't needed in the trade conversation.

I love Canada and Canadians even more. We have met some wonderful Canadians in The Villages. If Canada would agree to discuss the trade restrictions and policies with the USA, who is to say what deal could be worked out. Toxic hyperbole is a nonstarter and does no country any favors.

Well said. Sad that some Americans think so poorly of their country and its people.

[Aces4]

The US DID have some advantages before and after WW2. Back then we had a REAL middle class with wealth brought about by relatively good primary and secondary schools and large labor union participation. Also there was a tax system that favored the middle class and NOT the upper class like today.

Yes, we had a steady middle class because employment, ambition and pride were in the mix. Labor unions, despite what you believe, are not the answers to all problems. If the jobs are here, companies will pay to keep their good employees and be profitable. Do you remember what schools were like in the 50's and 60's? The schools worked because children knew if they got in trouble or didn't finish their homework, Dad and Mom would be on their case. Teachers now want to quit rather than deal with the many children raised with permissiveness and no boundaries but that is another thread and time.

And I don't believe in a "one class" society, it kills incentive and innovation unless your leader is holding a weapon to one's head. I'll pass.

[kkingston57]

[QUOTE=SoCalGal;2422975]You understand why uninhabited islands were included, right?

Tariffs, which imposed a baseline 10% tax on imports from over 180 countries and territories, included remote and uninhabited locations like the Heard and McDonald Islands, an Australian territory in the sub-Antarctic with no human population. Several explanations have emerged for this unusual decision.

One key rationale, articulated by U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, is the aim to close potential loopholes in trade policy. Lutnick argued that listing even uninhabited territories prevents other countries from exploiting them as conduits to ship goods into the U.S. and evade tariffs. This perspective suggests a deliberate strategy to ensure no region, regardless of its population or economic activity, could be used to circumvent the tariffs, drawing from past experiences where countries like China rerouted exports through third parties during Trump's first term.[/QUOTE