Bring back the jobs?

[skarra]

Seriously though (attached graphic), why do we want low paying and now largely automated manufacturing jobs when we do services so well and have a surplus in that respect with nearly every nation? China owns cheap manufacturing now - we need to get over it.

The services industry includes Banking/finance, High Tech, Accounting, Tourism, etc. Isn't that what young people want?

[salpal]

agree....can you imagine Americans sewing blue jeans in a factory for very small wages? We want to encourage young people to STEM careers. People forget...the robots are coming. Do we want the USA to go back to the 1800's with factories? No, we want to be supreme in technology and all STEM areas.

[opinionist]

We need manufacturing for a trade balance. That does not mean we need to manufacture socks. We only need to make stuff that other countries would want to buy. Services can be part of the balance, but we need manufacturing for national security interests.

[Whatnext]

The funny thing about 'service industries,' is their income was not included in the rather 'one size fits all' tariff formula, when putting US exports against imports from other countries.
Probably just a bonus for having to collect all the trillions flowing into the government pocket.

[Topspinmo]

Seriously though (attached graphic), why do we want low paying and now largely automated manufacturing jobs when we do services so well and have a surplus in that respect with nearly every nation? China owns cheap manufacturing now - we need to get over it.

The services industry includes Banking/finance, High Tech, Accounting, Tourism, etc. Isn't that what young people want?

Fail realize those jobs won’t be at pay scale in China, India, or any other 3rd world slave labor. When Average UAW here makes 70 plus dollars hour compared to at best 5.25 hour in Mexico and elsewhere.

Not everybody can be brain surgeons. There at least 100 million Americans that have swept under carpet got fat and too lazy to work when government gives them just enough to survive. A low paying job better than NO job. The problem is people who make decisions really never had to work or was ever hungry, and I don’t mean missing meal or two.

Another problem college education don’t really get you much anymore hundred thousands of college graduates working in the so called services industry waiting on tables at least few that will work? Course there will never be flat tax the would put accounting lawyer out of work cause one’s making the tax laws are NOT going to shoot themselves in foot and have to pay their fair share.

Then there one that get degree in running their mouth, political science.

[Topspinmo]

The funny about 'service industries,' is their income was not included in the rather 'one size fits all' tariff formula, when putting US exports against imports from other countries.
Probably just a bonus for having to collect all the trillions flowing into the government pocket.

Due to outrageous fraud and wasteful spending the federal government NEEDS trillions or we WILL be 3rd world. IMO it’s too late, the only way we’re going to get out of debt is send payment with nuke attach. IMO world war coming

[Aces4]

Due to outrageous fraud and wasteful spending the federal government NEEDS trillions or we WILL be 3rd world. IMO it’s too late, the only way we’re going to get out of debt is send payment with nuke attach. IMO world war coming

Your upbeat message leaves me scratching my head... so often I hear now how this country CAN'T do anything anymore. Bullroar, all we need is some backbone and ambition.

No one takes into account the handouts that it takes to float the boat of all the jobless people here not to mention the crime involved with much of that joblessness. Take the whole picture into one's view and remember, no one is trying to eliminate everything, just balance it out. And as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Your upbeat message leaves me scratching my head... so often I hear now how this country CAN'T do anything anymore. Bullroar, all we need is some backbone and ambition.

No one takes into account the handouts that it takes to float the boat of all the jobless people here not to mention the crime involved with much of that joblessness. Take the whole picture into one's view and remember, no one is trying to eliminate everything, just balance it out. And as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.

Totally agree with this. Our country drastically needs employees who work with their hands and brains. With all the new infrastructure going up the next few years in the USA. We will need construction, welders, plumbers, electricians etc etc. all trades. Mucho dinero pay jobs. And high tech manufacturing. Not just socks.., I understand that the new schools here are focusing on trades too. Wonderful.

[FloridaGuy66]

The top 10 "quality of living" countries mostly have manufacturing as a low percentage of their workforce. We need to look for new solutions, not try old ones that have failed for good reason.

[Pugchief]

as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.

True. And not everyone has the brains to be one. The point is we need more students studying useful curriculums that will lead to innovation and jobs, and less studying obscure social degrees that didn't exist 50 years ago because they aren't real.

[fdpaq0580]

True. And not everyone has the brains to be one. The point is we need more students studying useful curriculums that will lead to innovation and jobs, and less studying obscure social degrees that didn't exist 50 years ago because they aren't real.

Obscure degrees that didn't exist 50 years ago? Could it be that science and technology and social awareness subjects and needs didn't exist until recently? Like, for instance, what the heck is an "aesthetician" and when did it become a thing. (Brace yourselves) Never had those things back in my day?

[Normal]

Seriously though (attached graphic), why do we want low paying and now largely automated manufacturing jobs when we do services so well and have a surplus in that respect with nearly every nation? China owns cheap manufacturing now - we need to get over it.

The services industry includes Banking/finance, High Tech, Accounting, Tourism, etc. Isn't that what young people want?

Many jobs will be high paying. Ask the automakers in Michigan, the steelworkers in Ohio and Pennsylvania or various other high middle class workers.

[Topspinmo]

Your upbeat message leaves me scratching my head... so often I hear now how this country CAN'T do anything anymore. Bullroar, all we need is some backbone and ambition.

No one takes into account the handouts that it takes to float the boat of all the jobless people here not to mention the crime involved with much of that joblessness. Take the whole picture into one's view and remember, no one is trying to eliminate everything, just balance it out. And as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.

Where are going find this backbone and ambitions? Most expect it to be handed to them…:beer3:

[Pugchief]

Obscure degrees that didn't exist 50 years ago? Could it be that science and technology and social awareness subjects and needs didn't exist until recently?

Umm, no. Tell me what productive job requires "social awareness subjects and needs". People going $200,000 into hock for degrees that don't get them jobs is why student debt is out of control. Colleges shouldn't even be offering that garbage IMO.

I'm not talking about "science and technology" as I specifically referenced "social" degrees. But hey, if you want to fund your kid's degree in international gender studies or the like, I guess YMMV.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I find it strange that in this thread, no one has even mentioned a need for more people in the medical field, and in health care in general. You want more Americans to be home health aids for seniors who aren't ready for nursing homes yet? Maybe - give more Americans more incentive to qualify as home health aids. Right now, most of them in Florida are immigrants, because they can't FIND Americans who want to do the work.

We have a nursing shortage in Florida. We also have a physician shortage. And an orthopedic surgery shortage. The people who can afford the education necessary to get degrees, don't seem to be interested in those degrees. So we have to seek these professionals from other places. A doctor from Pakistan will be just as qualified to diagnose your hernia as a doctor from Toledo Ohio. If Toledo doesn't want to come to the party, then you need to suck it up, and learn to love the guy from Pakistan. The first step is to stop this "mass deportation" stuff and denaturalizing and cancelling green cards stuff. If they're here LEGALLY and haven't broken any laws while here, then leave them the heck alone and let them continue contributing to society and paying their taxes (yes, immigrants pay taxes).

Don't forget also, medical professionals from other countries pay MUCH less for their medical education than we do here in the States. So they can afford to work for less, when they get here. They have lower payments to pay off any loans, and some of them earn their degrees for free, courtesy of their country of origin.

In Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.

[Paper1]

Due to outrageous fraud and wasteful spending the federal government NEEDS trillions or we WILL be 3rd world. IMO it’s too late, the only way we’re going to get out of debt is send payment with nuke attach. IMO world war coming

Although I hope you are wrong about the war part I do agree with your thinking about national debt. I don’t believe it can mathematically be repaid, we can’t even balance the budget for one year. We as a people are addicted to our grandchildren’s credit card and the US money printing machine. We are not screwed but surely have set up future generations to take our long over due bitter medicine for us. Americans have been led to believe there is such a thing as “something for nothing”, it is now the great American dream.

[rsmurano]

Of course the OP shows worst case scenario. All the jobs that are coming into the united states are based on AI, car manufacturing, and electric grid enhancements to power the new AI server farms. I can tell you, these people will easily make over 6 digit wages.
The new generation of kids don’t want to work, they want everything given to them like they are entitled. This generation is setting new records for living with their parents until they are in their late 30’s. The government should stop all payments to everybody that can work.

[spinner1001]

It seems that everyone is an economist now.

[spinner1001]

It seems that everyone is an economist now.

Economists now.

[Whatnext]

The fact is foreign adversaries like China are using the trade deficit to purchase control of US land, assets, companies, and debt. It has to stop before China has enough power to wage WWIII.

Don't allow yourself to be sucked in by the liberal propoganda. It would be stupid to hand sew jeans. What we want is fully automated jean factories in the USA (or Thailand can continue to make jeans as long as they buy equal value of goods we make).

This trade deficit MUST end. Sadly there are too many brainwashed US citizens who don't see the danger and I fear many of those who do don't have the stomach or the patience for the pain it is going to take to correct 50 years of terrible economic decisions and fiscal policy.

We owe a huge apology to our grandchildren.

Why should Thailand, or any other country be penalized for making goods for American companies?
Corporate America are the ones who took industry away from the American workers in pursuit of higher profits. Let them pick up the tab for the import tariffs.

[Indydealmaker]

agree....can you imagine Americans sewing blue jeans in a factory for very small wages? We want to encourage young people to STEM careers. People forget...the robots are coming. Do we want the USA to go back to the 1800's with factories? No, we want to be supreme in technology and all STEM areas.

These employment paths are not mutually exclusive, but synergistic. There are millions of employees that really can only perform by rote. Our society has devolved to shaming actual labor.

[Ptmcbriz]

We need manufacturing for a trade balance. That does not mean we need to manufacture socks. We only need to make stuff that other countries would want to buy. Services can be part of the balance, but we need manufacturing for national security interests.

So you think Americans are fine with paying $45 for a doll vs $19, because labor costs are so high in the US? If US manufacturers moved back they would go bankrupt because Americans would scale back. They can’t afford the higher prices. Plus the US manufacturers in the US would no longer be able to compete globally because the doll costs too much. They have to stay in China to compete globally. They can still sell their $19 dolls to 100+ countries. They can’t with a $45 doll.

[Lottoguy]

There has been a trade deficit for 50 years now. In that time the USA economy has grown 350%. Check the facts if you don't believe me. Listen to the Nobel economic laureates instead of what comes out of DC.

[Sunnyme]

So you think Americans are fine with paying $45 for a doll vs $19, because labor costs are so high in the US? If US manufacturers moved back they would go bankrupt because Americans would scale back. They can’t afford the higher prices. Plus the US manufacturers in the US would no longer be able to compete globally because the doll costs too much. They have to stay in China to compete globally. They can still sell their $19 dolls to 100+ countries. They can’t with a $45 doll.
Disagree completely, many foreign auto manufacturers have found a way to be competitive building cars and trucks in the USA. Subaru in Lafeyette IN, Toyota has 10 automotive plants in the USA, Honda in Marysville OH and there are more.
Other foreign manufacturers that do not have a US manufacturing presence but want to sell here need to also build here.

The USA manufacturers that have moved plants and jobs to Mexico and SE Asia need to be reeled in.

And for the folks that say manufacturing today in all done by robots,, someone needs to design that manufacturing system, someone needs to design and build the robots, someone needs to service and maintain the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs to design and build the facility that holds the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs so plan and organize the production of the manufacturing system someone need to schedule the shipping and logistics for the product that is produced, and on and on. These are all jobs that should be here in the USA. Manufacturing sites also increase the local tax base providing money for infrastructure and schools.
Be American-Buy American.

[Normal]

Disagree completely, many foreign auto manufacturers have found a way to be competitive building cars and trucks in the USA. Subaru in Lafeyette IN, Toyota has 10 automotive plants in the USA, Honda in Marysville OH and there are more.
Other foreign manufacturers that do not have a US manufacturing presence but want to sell here need to also build here.

The USA manufacturers that have moved plants and jobs to Mexico and SE Asia need to be reeled in.

And for the folks that say manufacturing today in all done by robots,, someone needs to design that manufacturing system, someone needs to design and build the robots, someone needs to service and maintain the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs to design and build the facility that holds the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs so plan and organize the production of the manufacturing system someone need to schedule the shipping and logistics for the product that is produced, and on and on. These are all jobs that should be here in the USA. Manufacturing sites also increase the local tax base providing money for infrastructure and schools.
Be American-Buy American.


We have many shuttered facilities for auto manufacturing that could be reopened within weeks too. I say bring those incomes back from Canada and Mexico. Let’s pay Americans to do those jobs first.

Steel plants could fire up production within the month.
US Steel will cut jobs, close plants, move HQ from Pittsburgh if Nippon sale fails, CEO warns (https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/business/us-steel-will-close-plants-move-hq-from-pittsburgh-if-nippon-sale-fails-ceo-warns/)

[Aces4]

It seems that everyone is an economist now.

Or have a lot of common sense!:wave:

[Aces4]

There has been a trade deficit for 50 years now. In that time the USA economy has grown 350%. Check the facts if you don't believe me. Listen to the Nobel economic laureates instead of what comes out of DC.

And how has the USA debt grown in that same space?

[Aces4]

So you think Americans are fine with paying $45 for a doll vs $19, because labor costs are so high in the US? If US manufacturers moved back they would go bankrupt because Americans would scale back. They can’t afford the higher prices. Plus the US manufacturers in the US would no longer be able to compete globally because the doll costs too much. They have to stay in China to compete globally. They can still sell their $19 dolls to 100+ countries. They can’t with a $45 doll.

With a slight of hand, businesses figured out how to put a large portion of the debit side of their ledgers on the backs of US citizens and then convinced us we were getting a great deal with cheaper foreign products. Few noticed how the jobless affected our budgets at home with the jobs shipped overseas. As we pay out of our pockets for all the programs that support the loss of employment, subsidized housing/rent, Medicaid, food stamps, health insurance and all the social programs for the jobless not to mention the lack of dignity and loss of self esteem for those affected. We also lost the very important ability to care for ourselves in the event of world disagreements or worse. Yeah, we sure came out ahead, ahem.

[Topspinmo]

I find it strange that in this thread, no one has even mentioned a need for more people in the medical field, and in health care in general. You want more Americans to be home health aids for seniors who aren't ready for nursing homes yet? Maybe - give more Americans more incentive to qualify as home health aids. Right now, most of them in Florida are immigrants, because they can't FIND Americans who want to do the work.

We have a nursing shortage in Florida. We also have a physician shortage. And an orthopedic surgery shortage. The people who can afford the education necessary to get degrees, don't seem to be interested in those degrees. So we have to seek these professionals from other places. A doctor from Pakistan will be just as qualified to diagnose your hernia as a doctor from Toledo Ohio. If Toledo doesn't want to come to the party, then you need to suck it up, and learn to love the guy from Pakistan. The first step is to stop this "mass deportation" stuff and denaturalizing and cancelling green cards stuff. If they're here LEGALLY and haven't broken any laws while here, then leave them the heck alone and let them continue contributing to society and paying their taxes (yes, immigrants pay taxes).

Don't forget also, medical professionals from other countries pay MUCH less for their medical education than we do here in the States. So they can afford to work for less, when they get here. They have lower payments to pay off any loans, and some of them earn their degrees for free, courtesy of their country of origin.

In Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.

Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.

You mean they not getting student loans for apartments, vehicles, vacations, and spring breaks in Cancun or Miami Beach? They haven’t been Americanized yet have they?

[Topspinmo]

It seems that everyone is an economist now.

So a piece of paper makes them experts. Kinda like political science degree, getting paid to run your mouth as long as someone willing to listen.

[fdpaq0580]

We have many shuttered facilities for auto manufacturing that could be reopened within weeks too. I say bring those incomes back from Canada and Mexico. Let’s pay Americans to do those jobs first.

Steel plants could fire up production within the month.
US Steel will cut jobs, close plants, move HQ from Pittsburgh if Nippon sale fails, CEO warns (https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/business/us-steel-will-close-plants-move-hq-from-pittsburgh-if-nippon-sale-fails-ceo-warns/)

So easy to say. Not so easy to do. Much has changed.

[fdpaq0580]

Why should Thailand, or any other country be penalized for making goods for American companies?
Corporate America are the ones who took industry away from the American workers in pursuit of higher profits. Let them pick up the tab for the import tariffs.

They do .... then add it to the price. If they didn't, there would be no profit. No profit, no imported goods That is why tariffs hurt consumers.

[Arctic Fox]

why do we want low paying and now largely automated manufacturing jobs when we do services so well and have a surplus in that respect with nearly every nation? China owns cheap manufacturing now - we need to get over it. The services industry includes Banking/finance, High Tech, Accounting, Tourism, etc. Isn't that what young people want?

The effect of tariffs on tourism has largely been overlooked. 35 million foreigners visited the USA last year. Most of the World currently views the USA unfavorably so it will be interesting to see the drop in overseas tourist numbers. There are plenty of "friendly" countries to visit instead.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Disagree completely, many foreign auto manufacturers have found a way to be competitive building cars and trucks in the USA. Subaru in Lafeyette IN, Toyota has 10 automotive plants in the USA, Honda in Marysville OH and there are more.
Other foreign manufacturers that do not have a US manufacturing presence but want to sell here need to also build here.

The USA manufacturers that have moved plants and jobs to Mexico and SE Asia need to be reeled in.

And for the folks that say manufacturing today in all done by robots,, someone needs to design that manufacturing system, someone needs to design and build the robots, someone needs to service and maintain the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs to design and build the facility that holds the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs so plan and organize the production of the manufacturing system someone need to schedule the shipping and logistics for the product that is produced, and on and on. These are all jobs that should be here in the USA. Manufacturing sites also increase the local tax base providing money for infrastructure and schools.
Be American-Buy American.

Come on, that was WAY too easy. Subaru is assembled in Indiana - from parts made in Japan. This is like - not news. At all. Indiana is an ASSEMBLY plant, not a MANUFACTURING plant.

There is very little "made in the USA" that is 100% "made in the USA." In most cases - parts, ingredients, components, are made in other countries.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.

You mean they not getting student loans for apartments, vehicles, vacations, and spring breaks in Cancun or Miami Beach? They haven’t been Americanized yet have they?

No, Pakistani culture values high work ethics and education. Something you don't see as much of here in the states.

[jimjamuser]

Seriously though (attached graphic), why do we want low paying and now largely automated manufacturing jobs when we do services so well and have a surplus in that respect with nearly every nation? China owns cheap manufacturing now - we need to get over it.

The services industry includes Banking/finance, High Tech, Accounting, Tourism, etc. Isn't that what young people want?
Not all young people have the math skills to be accountants. or high tech. But, they could do maintenance jobs (with some training) on robotic and AI manufacturing factories. That way we would be paying our own PATRIOTIC citizens while NOT paying China, which we are in competition with militarily. When we buy Chinese made goods we are also paying for their air force and space force operations. Also, the skills that US young adults learn in a US factory maintenance company could be transferred to the US Military in the case of a WAR. If we made an effort as a Country to emphasize SOME non-College jobs, we could strengthen the vanishing middle class and TRULY make America STRONGER. It would help, also, if we changed the tax brackets to help the middle class re-GROW itself.

[jimjamuser]

agree....can you imagine Americans sewing blue jeans in a factory for very small wages? We want to encourage young people to STEM careers. People forget...the robots are coming. Do we want the USA to go back to the 1800's with factories? No, we want to be supreme in technology and all STEM areas.
Ideally, the jeans would be made on a ROBOTIC assembly line.

[jimjamuser]

Your upbeat message leaves me scratching my head... so often I hear now how this country CAN'T do anything anymore. Bullroar, all we need is some backbone and ambition.

No one takes into account the handouts that it takes to float the boat of all the jobless people here not to mention the crime involved with much of that joblessness. Take the whole picture into one's view and remember, no one is trying to eliminate everything, just balance it out. And as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.
One problem is that rocket scientists do NOT make as much money as Wall Street types. That's why not enough are going into STEM careers.

[Taltarzac725]

One problem is that rocket scientists do NOT make as much money as Wall Street types. That's why not enough are going into STEM carriers.

Those are both very hard jobs to get.

We do need more bureaucrats though. Intelligent compassionate and well organized ones. For instance, there are a some computers that now may have troubles working because of some of the recent job cuts. Especially those written in older computer codes.

[jimjamuser]

The top 10 "quality of living" countries mostly have manufacturing as a low percentage of their workforce. We need to look for new solutions, not try old ones that have failed for good reason.
Actually, I just looked that up and Germany is in the top ten for manufacturing and the other nations have high manufacturing also. If we are looking to change to more like those top ten "quality of life" counties, they all have National Health Care.

[Pugchief]

Ideally, the jeans would be made on a ROBOTIC assembly line.

How can you simultaneously be pro-union and pro-robot? They are diametrically opposed.

[Pugchief]

We do need more bureaucrats though. Intelligent compassionate and well organized ones.

That's hilarious 🤣

[jimjamuser]

Your upbeat message leaves me scratching my head... so often I hear now how this country CAN'T do anything anymore. Bullroar, all we need is some backbone and ambition.

No one takes into account the handouts that it takes to float the boat of all the jobless people here not to mention the crime involved with much of that joblessness. Take the whole picture into one's view and remember, no one is trying to eliminate everything, just balance it out. And as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.
One reason for jobless people is too much legal and illegal immigration in the last 50 years. Also, drug dealers and HARD drugs hurt the ambition of working age people. Also, it kills many of them in their PRIME earning days.

[Ruger2506]

I think you all missed the point. If it’s more cost effective to grow a fruit in South America. Ship it to Asia to process it and then ship it to America to sell (same for beef). There is a fundamental problem that needs to be fixed. Sure clothes, who gives a crap. But food. That should be produced “in house”.

[jimjamuser]

I find it strange that in this thread, no one has even mentioned a need for more people in the medical field, and in health care in general. You want more Americans to be home health aids for seniors who aren't ready for nursing homes yet? Maybe - give more Americans more incentive to qualify as home health aids. Right now, most of them in Florida are immigrants, because they can't FIND Americans who want to do the work.

We have a nursing shortage in Florida. We also have a physician shortage. And an orthopedic surgery shortage. The people who can afford the education necessary to get degrees, don't seem to be interested in those degrees. So we have to seek these professionals from other places. A doctor from Pakistan will be just as qualified to diagnose your hernia as a doctor from Toledo Ohio. If Toledo doesn't want to come to the party, then you need to suck it up, and learn to love the guy from Pakistan. The first step is to stop this "mass deportation" stuff and denaturalizing and cancelling green cards stuff. If they're here LEGALLY and haven't broken any laws while here, then leave them the heck alone and let them continue contributing to society and paying their taxes (yes, immigrants pay taxes).

Don't forget also, medical professionals from other countries pay MUCH less for their medical education than we do here in the States. So they can afford to work for less, when they get here. They have lower payments to pay off any loans, and some of them earn their degrees for free, courtesy of their country of origin.

In Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.
30 years ago the Medical Schools went out of their way to make US Medical Schools HARDER to graduate from. Their graduate alumni doctors wanted harder standards so that graduate Doctors could have MORE patients and make more money. US doctors were in charge of US Medical production and all things medical. Then the US population increased drastically and there were not enough US Doctors to handle the NEED.The large medical groups turned Doctors into mere laborers (with big degrees). Doctors are mere worker bees today. And imported Doctors helped make that possible.

[Ruger2506]

I find it strange that in this thread, no one has even mentioned a need for more people in the medical field, and in health care in general. You want more Americans to be home health aids for seniors who aren't ready for nursing homes yet? Maybe - give more Americans more incentive to qualify as home health aids. Right now, most of them in Florida are immigrants, because they can't FIND Americans who want to do the work.

We have a nursing shortage in Florida. We also have a physician shortage. And an orthopedic surgery shortage. The people who can afford the education necessary to get degrees, don't seem to be interested in those degrees. So we have to seek these professionals from other places. A doctor from Pakistan will be just as qualified to diagnose your hernia as a doctor from Toledo Ohio. If Toledo doesn't want to come to the party, then you need to suck it up, and learn to love the guy from Pakistan. The first step is to stop this "mass deportation" stuff and denaturalizing and cancelling green cards stuff. If they're here LEGALLY and haven't broken any laws while here, then leave them the heck alone and let them continue contributing to society and paying their taxes (yes, immigrants pay taxes).

Don't forget also, medical professionals from other countries pay MUCH less for their medical education than we do here in the States. So they can afford to work for less, when they get here. They have lower payments to pay off any loans, and some of them earn their degrees for free, courtesy of their country of origin.

In Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.
Maybe FL should pay their nurses and EMS adequately. Pay here in FL is insulting. No unions. No raises. Pitiful benefits. It’s a joke to say the least.

[jimjamuser]

Although I hope you are wrong about the war part I do agree with your thinking about national debt. I don’t believe it can mathematically be repaid, we can’t even balance the budget for one year. We as a people are addicted to our grandchildren’s credit card and the US money printing machine. We are not screwed but surely have set up future generations to take our long over due bitter medicine for us. Americans have been led to believe there is such a thing as “something for nothing”, it is now the great American dream.
The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

[jimjamuser]

Disagree completely, many foreign auto manufacturers have found a way to be competitive building cars and trucks in the USA. Subaru in Lafeyette IN, Toyota has 10 automotive plants in the USA, Honda in Marysville OH and there are more.
Other foreign manufacturers that do not have a US manufacturing presence but want to sell here need to also build here.

The USA manufacturers that have moved plants and jobs to Mexico and SE Asia need to be reeled in.

And for the folks that say manufacturing today in all done by robots,, someone needs to design that manufacturing system, someone needs to design and build the robots, someone needs to service and maintain the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs to design and build the facility that holds the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs so plan and organize the production of the manufacturing system someone need to schedule the shipping and logistics for the product that is produced, and on and on. These are all jobs that should be here in the USA. Manufacturing sites also increase the local tax base providing money for infrastructure and schools.
Be American-Buy American.
Also, cars made by Toyota here in the US do not have the additional cost of shipping across the Pacific Ocean.

[jimjamuser]

Why should Thailand, or any other country be penalized for making goods for American companies?
Corporate America are the ones who took industry away from the American workers in pursuit of higher profits. Let them pick up the tab for the import tariffs.
I agree.

[biker1]

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

[jimjamuser]

The effect of tariffs on tourism has largely been overlooked. 35 million foreigners visited the USA last year. Most of the World currently views the USA unfavorably so it will be interesting to see the drop in overseas tourist numbers. There are plenty of "friendly" countries to visit instead.
I agree.

[jimjamuser]

How can you simultaneously be pro-union and pro-robot? They are diametrically opposed.
The maintenance workers repairing the robotics lines could be unionized.

[jimjamuser]

Pay and quality of life suffer where there are no UNIONS.

[Normal]

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.

Exactly. You could wipe out every billionaire in the country and we still wouldn’t pay off the debt.

[jimjamuser]

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.
You can make a tax system do ANYTHING that you want or choose. You could make the top tax bracket pay 80% of their income (with no deductibles) if a country wanted to. Then the debt would be paid down quickly. In the 50s the upper tax bracket was around 80%. Then it steadily decreased due to pressure on elected Federal officials. Today the tax system helps the top 10 and 1 %. It hurts the middle and lower classes. But, I guess that is a super SECRET that they don't teach in high schools anymore ( maybe purposefully to keep them ignorant.)

[biker1]

More nonsense. You can’t collect $36T in tax “quickly”. Define “quickly”. The GDP of the entire country is $28T. When the marginal tax rate was high, nobody paid those marginal rates. The lower income classes pay little to no federal income tax. The majority of the federal income taxes are already paid by the upper 10%. Again, you have no concept of the numbers involved. You don’t have to believe what the clowns on The View tell you to believe.

You can make a tax system do ANYTHING that you want or choose. You could make the top tax bracket pay 80% of their income (with no deductibles) if a country wanted to. Then the debt would be paid down quickly. In the 50s the upper tax bracket was around 80%. Then it steadily decreased due to pressure on elected Federal officials. Today the tax system helps the top 10 and 1 %. It hurts the middle and lower classes. But, I guess that is a super SECRET that they don't teach in high schools anymore ( maybe purposefully to keep them ignorant.)

[daniel200]

Many jobs will be high paying. Ask the automakers in Michigan, the steelworkers in Ohio and Pennsylvania or various other high middle class workers.

Autoworkers in Detroit pay.. ..
Most GM production workers make about $25 per hour. The TOP pay as negotiated in the last contract is about $40 per hour (for hourly supervisors and hourly people with special skills). $25 per hour (~$50,000 per year) is not what I would call “high middle class”.

Then there are hundreds of automotive USA tier 2 suppliers. Production workers in these facilities currently earn $16 or $17 per hour.

[Taltarzac725]

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

The national debt is a huge problem but needs to be approached from every angle. Roads, bridges, the military, public universities, rail lines, etc. are also part of the problem. These are needed though. Stupid expenditures is not a solution. We need a smart approach to spending money. And one that considers future generations and their needs, problems, etc. Get everyone aboard with finding a practical solution.

[JMintzer]

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.

https://media.tenor.com/z_quKTpc_pcAAAAM/yes-yay.gif

[FloridaGuy66]

Autoworkers in Detroit pay.. ..
Most GM production workers make about $25 per hour. The TOP pay as negotiated in the last contract is about $40 per hour (for hourly supervisors and hourly people with special skills). $25 per hour (~$50,000 per year) is not what I would call “high middle class”.

Then there are hundreds of automotive USA tier 2 suppliers. Production workers in these facilities currently earn $16 or $17 per hour.

This is completely accurate and I'm shocked that so many people seem to think these are the desirable jobs that we need more of here.

Most people doing these types of jobs for 20+ years have their bodies so beaten down from repetitive tasks that there's no golf or pickleball options in their retirement, even if they could somehow afford it. Their "retirement" is basically sitting in front of a TV for the reminder of their lives.

[fdpaq0580]

This is completely accurate and I'm shocked that so many people seem to think these are the desirable jobs that we need more of here.

Most people doing these types of jobs for 20+ years have their bodies so beaten down from repetitive tasks that there's no golf or pickleball options in their retirement, even if they could somehow afford it. Their "retirement" is basically sitting in front of a TV for the reminder of their lives.

If they could afford it, I'll bet they would surprise you.

[fdpaq0580]

Pay and quality of life suffer where there are no UNIONS.

if employees were treated fairly, decent pay, benefits, there would be no unions.
Employers who do not value the employees and only want to exploit them are the reason unions came to be.

[FloridaGuy66]

If they could afford it, I'll bet they would surprise you.

I worked in an automotive manufacturing facility for 7 years as a consultant. I was more surprised by the many people I met that were working on the assembly line that reached retirement age and became deceased in their 60's or no longer have any physical ability to do anything enjoyable in their retirement. I've learned that those jobs totally suck the life out of you literally.

[MorTech]

Young people want free money taken buy force from those who earn it.

China is not in play...It is now Vietnam (Vingroup is the next Samsung :)), Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and Malaysia.

Wonder why they were first to the negotiating table?

[AMB444]

"China owns cheap manufacturing now "

Yes, of course. But for how long. We think of the Chinese as dirt poor and having no access to internet and other worldly news.

How long before they, as well as us, decide enough is enough.

[Normal]

"China owns cheap manufacturing now "

Yes, of course. But for how long. We think of the Chinese as dirt poor and having no access to internet and other worldly news.

How long before they, as well as us, decide enough is enough.

That was the mindset of 10-15 years ago. We don’t live in 2010 anymore. They are much more westernized than many think. More than half of the Chinese population is obese and many don’t work.

They have a 1 trillion dollar trade surplus that has been stealing from the American GDP for some time. We aren’t the only country the feels this way either,. The EU, Australia and others all are being bullied by China.

China has access to a lot of technology thanks to our colleges supporting Chinese students for at least 5 years. Something needs to be done. We might suffer discomfort a year or so in a full out trade war, but it’s China who would be crawling back on their knees about this time next year.

[SallyB]

agree....can you imagine Americans sewing blue jeans in a factory for very small wages? We want to encourage young people to STEM careers. People forget...the robots are coming. Do we want the USA to go back to the 1800's with factories? No, we want to be supreme in technology and all STEM areas.
You are truly missing what manufacturing in the US means.
Go back to 2021 when we couldn't buy items needed and most important medications
why do we need our medications made in other countries?
The auto industry came to a stop because the US outsourced its chips
there is no reason that the US should be crippled because we rely on other countries
We have moved US companies to other countries because of cheap labor and taxes. Better taxes and insurance for companies can make them competitive.
China has done nothing but hurts the US wake up

[PilotAlan]

How quickly everyone forgets the pandemic. When we discovered that our medications, PPE, repair parts for almost everything, and thousands of other critical items were made overseas.
We have an expansionist China threatening war, and we're dependent on them for the steel to make our ships and tanks. The computer parts of our fighter jets (and for our internet, and phones, and everything else).

We have made ourselves dependent on our enemies for almost everything that is critical to maintaining our defense, our industry, our health, our communications, and almost everything else.
This isn't about blue jeans and tchotchkies. This is about losing the ability to make almost anything in this country. That's not a good prescription for our economy, our defense, or our future.

[justjim]

Interesting Thread. What are you going to do with the millions of Americans on “public aid”’of various types? I read recently that 40% of Americans cannot come up with $400.00 in cash. That would be 140 million plus folks. And we are the most prosperous and greatest country on the planet! The divide between the rich and poor is a GREAT divide and our “leaders” won’t “touch it with a 10 foot pole”. Fore.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

How quickly everyone forgets the pandemic. When we discovered that our medications, PPE, repair parts for almost everything, and thousands of other critical items were made overseas.
We have an expansionist China threatening war, and we're dependent on them for the steel to make our ships and tanks. The computer parts of our fighter jets (and for our internet, and phones, and everything else).

We have made ourselves dependent on our enemies for almost everything that is critical to maintaining our defense, our industry, our health, our communications, and almost everything else.
This isn't about blue jeans and tchotchkies. This is about losing the ability to make almost anything in this country. That's not a good prescription for our economy, our defense, or our future.

So we're driving into a brick wall, and the solution is to destroy the car, and then rebuild it - leaving everyone with no transportation until a new one is made.

That - is a pretty stupid idea.

Here's a different idea:

Build a new car, and stop driving it into brick walls.

We're driving our country toward a recession because we want to not use Chinese products.

Okay so...
Instead of making everyone in America suffer by increasing the costs of those products (which is what happens when you impose tariffs)...

start making those products in America FIRST. THEN ease off on the imports.

[Paper1]

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.
What you proposed sounds like socialism and you maybe correct. You mention Democracy but need to understand what the impact of 50% of eligible voters do not pay a cent of federal income tax. Their vote counts every bit as much as that person who you say is not “paying their fair share”. That is what will kill democracy. IMHO

[elevatorman]

We have many shuttered facilities for auto manufacturing that could be reopened within weeks too. I say bring those incomes back from Canada and Mexico. Let’s pay Americans to do those jobs first.

Steel plants could fire up production within the month.
US Steel will cut jobs, close plants, move HQ from Pittsburgh if Nippon sale fails, CEO warns (https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/business/us-steel-will-close-plants-move-hq-from-pittsburgh-if-nippon-sale-fails-ceo-warns/)
US Steel is not what it once was.
US Steel produced 8.8 million metric tons of steel in 2022. Nucor Corporation (Charlotte, NC) produced 20.5 million metric tons, and Cleveland-Cliffs Inc. (Cleveland, OH) produced 16.5 million metric tons.

US Steel did not start to modernize its plants until 2010. They still rely on coal blast furnaces in the Pittsburgh area. While most other US companies use electric arc furnace (EAF) that are more efficient.

79% of the steel used in the US is made in the US. The industry is undergoing a transformation, with significant investments in modernizing facilities and adopting more sustainable production methods, such as electric arc furnaces (EAFs). For instance, BlueScope's North Star steelworks in Ohio has invested over $1 billion in expanding its EAF operations, contributing to a resurgence in U.S. manufacturing. ​

[fdpaq0580]

So we're driving into a brick wall, and the solution is to destroy the car, and then rebuild it - leaving everyone with no transportation until a new one is made.

That - is a pretty stupid idea.

Here's a different idea:

Build a new car, and stop driving it into brick walls.

We're driving our country toward a recession because we want to not use Chinese products.

Okay so...
Instead of making everyone in America suffer by increasing the costs of those products (which is what happens when you impose tariffs)...

start making those products in America FIRST. THEN ease off on the imports.

Sounds simple. Where do we get the materials? The expertise? The equipment? The food?
We import it.

[jimjamuser]

That was the mindset of 10-15 years ago. We don’t live in 2010 anymore. They are much more westernized than many think. More than half of the Chinese population is obese and many don’t work.

They have a 1 trillion dollar trade surplus that has been stealing from the American GDP for some time. We aren’t the only country the feels this way either,. The EU, Australia and others all are being bullied by China.

China has access to a lot of technology thanks to our colleges supporting Chinese students for at least 5 years. Something needs to be done. We might suffer discomfort a year or so in a full out trade war, but it’s China who would be crawling back on their knees about this time next year.
I think that trade between partners will OFTEN not be EQUAL. That is no big deal. Most Chinese can NOT afford to buy US products. For one thing the currencies are NOT equal.

[jimjamuser]

The national debt is a huge problem but needs to be approached from every angle. Roads, bridges, the military, public universities, rail lines, etc. are also part of the problem. These are needed though. Stupid expenditures is not a solution. We need a smart approach to spending money. And one that considers future generations and their needs, problems, etc. Get everyone aboard with finding a practical solution.
The national debt over recent years is because MONEY OUT (from all expenses) exceeds the MONEY IN (from taxes). That is a simplification. The problem is that since about 1990 the tax brackets have favored the top 10% not the middle class. ANY country without a STRONG middle class is going to end up in a DICTATORSHIP. The tax bracket manipulation since 1990 should concern every AMERICAN, but most are unaware.

[jimjamuser]

How quickly everyone forgets the pandemic. When we discovered that our medications, PPE, repair parts for almost everything, and thousands of other critical items were made overseas.
We have an expansionist China threatening war, and we're dependent on them for the steel to make our ships and tanks. The computer parts of our fighter jets (and for our internet, and phones, and everything else).

We have made ourselves dependent on our enemies for almost everything that is critical to maintaining our defense, our industry, our health, our communications, and almost everything else.
This isn't about blue jeans and tchotchkies. This is about losing the ability to make almost anything in this country. That's not a good prescription for our economy, our defense, or our future.
An excellent post. Thanks.

[Normal]

The national debt over recent years is because MONEY OUT (from all expenses) exceeds the MONEY IN (from taxes). That is a simplification. The problem is that since about 1990 the tax brackets have favored the top 10% not the middle class. ANY country without a STRONG middle class is going to end up in a DICTATORSHIP. The tax bracket manipulation since 1990 should concern every AMERICAN, but most are unaware.

Everyone needs to pay taxes, not just the rich. If everyone had skin in the game there would be a lot less debt and a lot more reasons to work at ambition.

I’m looking forward to American advances in manufacturing though. Not only will companies have a lot less shipping time on needed parts (6 weeks when shipped from China), but the country will feel a whole lot more unified.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting Thread. What are you going to do with the millions of Americans on “public aid”’of various types? I read recently that 40% of Americans cannot come up with $400.00 in cash. That would be 140 million plus folks. And we are the most prosperous and greatest country on the planet! The divide between the rich and poor is a GREAT divide and our “leaders” won’t “touch it with a 10 foot pole”. Fore.
Good post. The great divide between rich and poor can only be fixed by making the tax laws help strengthen the middle class.

[jimjamuser]

So we're driving into a brick wall, and the solution is to destroy the car, and then rebuild it - leaving everyone with no transportation until a new one is made.

That - is a pretty stupid idea.

Here's a different idea:

Build a new car, and stop driving it into brick walls.

We're driving our country toward a recession because we want to not use Chinese products.

Okay so...
Instead of making everyone in America suffer by increasing the costs of those products (which is what happens when you impose tariffs)...

start making those products in America FIRST. THEN ease off on the imports.
I wonder if "driving our country toward a recession" IS really the STRATEGY. It is the most likely explanation.

[jimjamuser]

Everyone needs to pay taxes, not just the rich. If everyone had skin in the game there would be a lot less debt and a lot more reasons to work at ambition.

I’m looking forward to American advances in manufacturing though. Not only will companies have a lot less shipping time on needed parts (6 weeks when shipped from China), but the country will feel a whole lot more unified.
If getting more taxes from the working lower classes was the object - what I would do is ONLY ALLOW a maximum of 2 children to be exemptions. Huge families were the right thing in 1930 because infant morality was HIGH then, but not TODAY. With modern medical advances children can live longer, especially the ones that get ALL the immunization shots.

[Pugchief]

30 years ago the Medical Schools went out of their way to make US Medical Schools HARDER to graduate from. Their graduate alumni doctors wanted harder standards so that graduate Doctors could have MORE patients and make more money. US doctors were in charge of US Medical production and all things medical. Then the US population increased drastically and there were not enough US Doctors to handle the NEED.The large medical groups turned Doctors into mere laborers (with big degrees). Doctors are mere worker bees today. And imported Doctors helped make that possible.

Aside from the constant conspiracy theories that the "rich are out to get you", it is actually DESIRABLE to make medical school "hard". If they make it easy, to accommodate students that they should never have let in in the first place, will you be comfortable letting that surgeon cut you or that dentist drill you?

And what made doctors into laborers is government interference in the the free market via massive regulations.

[Normal]

Aside from the constant conspiracy theories that the "rich are out to get you", it is actually DESIRABLE to make medical school "hard". If they make it easy, to accommodate students that they should never have let in in the first place, will you be comfortable letting that surgeon cut you or that dentist drill you?

And what made doctors into laborers is government interference in the the free market via massive regulations.
100% correct

[Pugchief]

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

Would you please define what is "fair"? That term gets thrown around a lot but is very vague. The top 1% of income earners already pay 50% of the tax. Would you be happy when the top 1% pay 75%? 90%? Or is your only solution communism where there is zero incentive to be productive or innovative bc there is no reward for hard work?

[Normal]

If getting more taxes from the working lower classes was the object - what I would do is ONLY ALLOW a maximum of 2 children to be exemptions. Huge families were the right thing in 1930 because infant morality was HIGH then, but not TODAY. With modern medical advances children can live longer, especially the ones that get ALL the immunization shots.

The average per couple is 2.5. Many couples don’t even opt for kids anymore.

[Pugchief]

Interesting Thread. What are you going to do with the millions of Americans on “public aid” of various types?

Unionize them!! Isn't that the answer to all economic problems? My friend explained that to me recently.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sounds simple. Where do we get the materials? The expertise? The equipment? The food?
We import it.

That's why I posted it. You understood the logic lesson.

Many of the things we enjoy, many of the things we want in life, can't be made here, without parts from there. Such is the way of planets - some raw materials just aren't available everywhere. Like bananas. You want American-made bananas for everyone in the country? Figure out a way to grow enough of them to provide everyone here with them FIRST. THEN tariff the heck out of imported bananas.

[Normal]

Would you please define what is "fair"? That term gets thrown around a lot but is very vague. The top 1% of income earners already pay 50% of the tax. Would you be happy when the top 1% pay 75%? 90%? Or is your only solution communism where there is zero incentive to be productive or innovative bc there is no reward for hard work?

We will get more tax with the endowment tax congress is working on. Currently colleges only pay 1.4%. They are elevating that tax to 22%. 99% of Americans pay almost no tax and several even get refunds. This group needs to be taxed progressively like the rich are.

[Eg_cruz]

Agree

[jimjamuser]

Aside from the constant conspiracy theories that the "rich are out to get you", it is actually DESIRABLE to make medical school "hard". If they make it easy, to accommodate students that they should never have let in in the first place, will you be comfortable letting that surgeon cut you or that dentist drill you?

And what made doctors into laborers is government interference in the the free market via massive regulations.
There is nothing wrong with making medical schools rigorous. What I meant to say was that new medical schools were NOT opened up to accommodate MORE new 1st year Medical students. More well trained Medical students were needed, but Medical graduates wanted the number to NOT go up so they could have MORE patients and make MORE money. But, in doing so they shot themselves in the foot because now large business conglomerations control the Doctors.

[jimjamuser]

Aside from the constant conspiracy theories that the "rich are out to get you", it is actually DESIRABLE to make medical school "hard". If they make it easy, to accommodate students that they should never have let in in the first place, will you be comfortable letting that surgeon cut you or that dentist drill you?

And what made doctors into laborers is government interference in the the free market via massive regulations.
Not massive government regulations, but massive takeover of the Medical industry by GIANT corporations. A case of capitalism gone amuck.

[jimjamuser]

Would you please define what is "fair"? That term gets thrown around a lot but is very vague. The top 1% of income earners already pay 50% of the tax. Would you be happy when the top 1% pay 75%? 90%? Or is your only solution communism where there is zero incentive to be productive or innovative bc there is no reward for hard work?
Communism is NOT my solution.

[jimjamuser]

Unionize them!! Isn't that the answer to all economic problems? My friend explained that to me recently.
VOCATIONAL high schools would be ONE step forward.

[Decadeofdave]

The latest idea for the young generation is Micro-retirement.
It's the greatest idea to prevent yourself from getting ahead but great for a work life balance, non-go-getter.

[fdpaq0580]

Aside from the constant conspiracy theories that the "rich are out to get you", it is actually DESIRABLE to make medical school "hard". If they make it easy, to accommodate students that they should never have let in in the first place, will you be comfortable letting that surgeon cut you or that dentist drill you?

And what made doctors into laborers is government interference in the the free market via massive regulations.

Wrong, imho. Free market? The US can't compete globally in a free market. Let the buyer beware. Zero regulations. Open doors policy for goods and services
What about a fair market. Or, is Monopoly the name of the game?

[Pugchief]

Communism is NOT my solution.

You still didn't specify what you think is a "fair share". I'll wait.....

[Pugchief]

There is nothing wrong with making medical schools rigorous. What I meant to say was that new medical schools were NOT opened up to accommodate MORE new 1st year Medical students. More well trained Medical students were needed, but Medical graduates wanted the number to NOT go up so they could have MORE patients and make MORE money. But, in doing so they shot themselves in the foot because now large business conglomerations control the Doctors.

You can open 1000 new medical schools, but that doesn't mean you will have enough qualified students. More doctors might be needed, but only if they are qualified.

The next problem would be to get them to the areas that have a shortage. Should that be done by force?

[Pugchief]

Not massive government regulations, but massive takeover of the Medical industry by GIANT corporations. A case of capitalism gone amuck.

Sorry, but this is not accurate. Over-regulation is what caused the problem. Including, but not limited to the ACA, which has proved to be anything but affordable.

[fdpaq0580]

Communism is NOT my solution.

( note; communism in the animal word is like an ant colony. Each taking only what it needs and selflessly working for the good of the colony)
So-called communist governmets are actually fascist/dictatorships. Like China, North Korea, Russia. The old Soviet "Socialist" Repulic, wasn't real Sociaism. It wasn't about the society (the people). It was about the Government Entity. The "Corporation", in a sense. The strive for the Monopoly, to be the puppet master.

[fdpaq0580]

We will get more tax with the endowment tax congress is working on. Currently colleges only pay 1.4%. They are elevating that tax to 22%. 99% of Americans pay almost no tax and several even get refunds. This group needs to be taxed progressively like the rich are.

Please don't forget the church's. Lots of easy money to be found there. Ask Joel O.

[JMintzer]

Not massive government regulations, but massive takeover of the Medical industry by GIANT corporations. A case of capitalism gone amuck.

Medicare (the Government) is one of, if not THE largest, "massive takeovers" of the Medical industry...

[jimhoward]

Getting back to the main topic.......

I don't think we necessarily do want low more paying jobs manufacturing commodity products. We just want to reduce the trade deficit. That means we want to export as much or more stuff than we import. It really hard to reduce the trade deficit selling tee shirts.

I think reducing imports by making more things for internal consumption that you aren't all that good at making is another hard way to reduce the trade deficit. I think the best way to reduce the trade deficit is to make and sell more things we are good at, ideally high ticket items. That means we should sell more Aircraft, Machinery, Drugs, Medical equipment, Construction equipment. Power Plants, Semiconductor processing equipment, software. I don't know the whole list of markets we can compete well in right now, but its long. Protectionist policies aren't the answer. They just trigger reciprocal tariffs that prevent us from selling what we are good at.

[Dr.Butler]

We need manufacturing for a trade balance. That does not mean we need to manufacture socks. We only need to make stuff that other countries would want to buy. Services can be part of the balance, but we need manufacturing for national security interests.

That does not make sense. We buy more from other countries because we can afford it. They buy less because they cannot. What would we make that a poor country would want to buy that would be even worth making? Technically, the only thing they would really want is food from our farms that they couldn't grow themselves or that they needed more of to meet the demands that country has.

[fdpaq0580]

Medicare (the Government) is one of, if not THE largest, "massive takeovers" of the Medical industry...

(Psst. Medicare isn't takeover of the medical industry. It is insurance regulated so we, the American people, have access to health care. It is a good thing, actually. Thought you'd like to know. )

[jimjamuser]

Sorry, but this is not accurate. Over-regulation is what caused the problem. Including, but not limited to the ACA, which has proved to be anything but affordable.
Quote "over-regulation caused the problem". First we need to agree on WHAT problem we are talking about? I was talking about the problem of Doctors losing their status of being in charge of medicine in the US (which is probably NOT happening in other countries). I don't believe that over- regulation or even under-regulation played ANY PART. Doctors got their profession taken over by large corporations of PRIVATE INSURERS like Medicare Advantage. Some Doctors did stay independent, but many joined conglomerates. Many people in their 60s that are NOT Medicare eligible have used ACA successfully.

[jimjamuser]

Getting back to the main topic.......

I don't think we necessarily do want low more paying jobs manufacturing commodity products. We just want to reduce the trade deficit. That means we want to export as much or more stuff than we import. It really hard to reduce the trade deficit selling tee shirts.

I think reducing imports by making more things for internal consumption that you aren't all that good at making is another hard way to reduce the trade deficit. I think the best way to reduce the trade deficit is to make and sell more things we are good at, ideally high ticket items. That means we should sell more Aircraft, Machinery, Drugs, Medical equipment, Construction equipment. Power Plants, Semiconductor processing equipment, software. I don't know the whole list of markets we can compete well in right now, but its long. Protectionist policies aren't the answer. They just trigger reciprocal tariffs that prevent us from selling what we are good at.
I agree with this post. Especially the last summary sentence.

[JMintzer]

(Psst. Medicare isn't takeover of the medical industry. It is insurance regulated so we, the American people, have access to health care. It is a good thing, actually. Thought you'd like to know. )

(Psst. You're completely wrong. I've been a provider accepting Medicare for almost 40 years. I've watched it change drastically during that time. And not for the better. Thought you'd like to know.)

[JMintzer]

Quote "over-regulation caused the problem". First we need to agree on WHAT problem we are talking about? I was talking about the problem of Doctors losing their status of being in charge of medicine in the US (which is probably NOT happening in other countries). I don't believe that over- regulation or even under-regulation played ANY PART. Doctors got their profession taken over by large corporations of PRIVATE INSURERS like Medicare Advantage. Some Doctors did stay independent, but many joined conglomerates. Many people in their 60s that are NOT Medicare eligible have used ACA successfully.

And many got screwed by the ACA, watching their premiums and deductibles triple and quadruple (especially if you were self employed...)

[fdpaq0580]

(Psst. You're completely wrong. I've been a provider accepting Medicare for almost 40 years. I've watched it change drastically during that time. And not for the better. Thought you'd like to know.)

I do! Thanks!

[Kelevision]

It’s okay….When you fire 10’s of thousands of American workers, you can save money to throw a big military/birthday parade that’ll cost around 90 million. Good times!!

[asianthree]

It’s okay….When you fire 10’s of thousands of American workers, you can save money to throw a big military/birthday parade that’ll cost around 90 million. Good times!!

It’s heartbreaking to walk into a VA facility and notice those familiar healthcare professionals are no longer employed. Appointments changed cancelled. Some consider veterans unworthy of medical care.
Our daughter basically lost her entire team, yet even with her own medical problems, she still believes everyone deserves respect, and treatment either physically or emotionally.
She truly believes the strong will over power those who try to destroy wellbeing of others. I don’t think she will win but it’s good to have goals.

[rustyp]

China, long regarded as the factory of the world, is now pioneering a bold new frontier: dark factories—fully autonomous manufacturing plants that operate without human workers, without lights, and without interruption. No parking lots, no food service facilities, no human resources, etc. These futuristic facilities are not science fiction; they are already in operation.

If you are of the thought new manufacturing plants will bring back the days of high paying manual labor jobs you better have a plan b.