China to halt Boeing deliveries

[Arctic Fox]

Well-thought-out tariff policy helping USA domestic production - not!

Airbus laughing all the way to the bank.

[opinionist]

Boeing has already made a fool of itself with doors falling off planes.
Sourcing products from China was just another dumb move.

[DrMack]

Boeing has already made a fool of itself with doors falling off planes.
Sourcing products from China was just another dumb move.

I agree. It’s time to say good riddance to all the Chinese junk. I wouldn’t care if they closed every “dollar” store from here to Shanghai. None of us would care if China would stop exporting global pandemics.

[Bill14564]

Boeing has already made a fool of itself with doors falling off planes.
Sourcing products from China was just another dumb move.

I agree. It’s time to say good riddance to all the Chinese junk. I wouldn’t care if they closed every “dollar” store from here to Shanghai. None of us would care if China would stop exporting global pandemics.

You probably should have taken a minute to understand the issue before making such comments.

This isn't about Boeing being unable to manufacture planes. This is about Boeing, an American manufacturer, losing the sale of 180 planes to China over two years. At about 500 planes per year, this represents nearly 20% loss in sales.

[Normal]

All the while, Boeing just landed a huge contract for the new F47 fighter jet and the multi billion dollar C 17 sustainability contract. They will need more workers to keep up.

[EastCoastDawg]

You probably should have taken a minute to understand the issue before making such comments. This isn't about Boeing being unable to manufacture planes. This is about Boeing, an American manufacturer, losing the sale of 180 planes to China over two years. At about 500 planes per year, this represents nearly 20% loss in sales.

Indeed. Jingoism v Realism. Like (still) thinking that China will just roll over rather than retaliate.

[BillyGrown]

All the while, Boeing just landed a huge contract for the new F47 fighter jet and the multi billion dollar C 17 sustainability contract. They will need more workers to keep up.

Oh boy, more defense spending

[bopat]

This backfires on China. Boeing’s backlog is years long, so undelivered planes could find other buyers, albeit with delays in remarketing. China’s airlines, meanwhile, might struggle with older fleets or turn to Airbus, which is also stretched thin. If parts are embargoed, China risks grounding its Boeing-heavy fleets, which could cripple domestic operations.

[bopat]

"BIG NOTE: This is week one of the trade war with China and these planes were scheduled to be delivered over the next two years. A lot can change in that time.

FTFY: "KEY POINT: This marks week one of the U.S. finally responding to China's ongoing trade war, with Boeing deliveries scheduled over the next two years. Much could shift in that timeframe."

China started muscling in on U.S. manufacturing back in the ‘80s, waving cheap labor like a carrot to snatch American factories. Come the ‘90s, with trade deals greased and China crashing the WTO in 2000, they hit the gas—sucking up jobs and swiping our tech through slick business deals. A million U.S. factory jobs got wiped out by 2007 while China’s plants churned. That’s when they dug their claws in, and we’re still feeling the sting.

[Ralph Cramdon]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.

[Bill14564]

FTFY: "KEY POINT: This marks week one of the U.S. finally responding to China's ongoing trade war, with Boeing deliveries scheduled over the next two years. Much could shift in that timeframe."

China started muscling in on U.S. manufacturing back in the ‘80s, waving cheap labor like a carrot to snatch American factories. Come the ‘90s, with trade deals greased and China crashing the WTO in 2000, they hit the gas—sucking up jobs and swiping our tech through slick business deals. A million U.S. factory jobs got wiped out by 2007 while China’s plants churned. That’s when they dug their claws in, and we’re still feeling the sting.

Buyer's remorse; looking for someone to blame rather than taking responsibility for our own actions.

"Muscling in" could explain why US manufacturing exports decreased but it doesn't explain an increase in imports. US manufacturing moved to increase profits. American customers encouraged this by voting with their wallets. Everyone was a winner until "we" decided we didn't like the current situation and needed someone to blame.

[kkingston57]

I agree. It’s time to say good riddance to all the Chinese junk. I wouldn’t care if they closed every “dollar” store from here to Shanghai. None of us would care if China would stop exporting global pandemics.

Problem is that if and when US stops buying Chinese made products stores like Walmart can take over the spaces left by Dollar Store Dollar General Just bought a new thermometer for my American made Weber grill. Two choice a Weber branded thermometer and a non branded thermometer, both made in (guess where)

[kkingston57]

All the while, Boeing just landed a huge contract for the new F47 fighter jet and the multi billion dollar C 17 sustainability contract. They will need more workers to keep up.

And who is paying for the f 47s? In meantime Airbus will get more biz.

[tophcfa]

Oh boy, more defense spending

Bigger budget deficit and more out of control national debt : (

[biker1]

Both companies have large backlogs of single aisle planes. It’s not as if Airbus has planes in stock ready to ship or Boeing doesn’t have other customers who will be moved up in the queue.

The F-47 is a long term project paid for by the DoD.


And who is paying for the f 47s? In meantime Airbus will get more biz.

[Stu from NYC]

This trade war was a long time coming. We do need to balance our foreign trade stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us

[Bill14564]

This trade war was a long time coming. We do need to balance our foreign trade stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us

"take advantage of" == "sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

"Stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us" ->
"Stop allowing other countries to sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

[fdpaq0580]

Problem is that if and when US stops buying Chinese made products stores like Walmart can take over the spaces left by Dollar Store Dollar General Just bought a new thermometer for my American made Weber grill. Two choice a Weber branded thermometer and a non branded thermometer, both made in (guess where)

Let me guess. The penguin island! Good you got them before the tariff causes the price to go up.

[jimjamuser]

FTFY: "KEY POINT: This marks week one of the U.S. finally responding to China's ongoing trade war, with Boeing deliveries scheduled over the next two years. Much could shift in that timeframe."

China started muscling in on U.S. manufacturing back in the ‘80s, waving cheap labor like a carrot to snatch American factories. Come the ‘90s, with trade deals greased and China crashing the WTO in 2000, they hit the gas—sucking up jobs and swiping our tech through slick business deals. A million U.S. factory jobs got wiped out by 2007 while China’s plants churned. That’s when they dug their claws in, and we’re still feeling the sting.
In the 80s US companies went to China to get cheap labor AND US companies wanted to get away from UNIONS. So, that made the US middle class weaker and poorer. What fine PATRIOTS they are.

[jimjamuser]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.
Exactly.

[tophcfa]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.

Do you blame the companies for moving in pursuit of higher profits, or the laws and regulations that prohibit the companies from making the same profits operating domestically?

[Topspinmo]

"take advantage of" == "sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

"Stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us" ->
"Stop allowing other countries to sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

So, why do they tariff our products? I consider tariff manipulation of market where is’t not free trade it’s unbalanced trade which mean it’s unfair trade. Only fair trade is zero tariff and zero trumped up taxes on imports. Time world gets in balance, USA has carried world long enough. What did we get for it. Cheated.

[Pugchief]

Do you blame the companies for moving in pursuit of higher profits, or the laws and regulations that prohibit the companies from making the same profits operating domestically?

Boom.
Just like how health care was destroyed as I pointed out in the other thread.

[Topspinmo]

In the 80s US companies went to China to get cheap labor AND US companies wanted to get away from UNIONS. So, that made the US middle class weaker and poorer. What fine PATRIOTS they are.

IMO it started long before 80’s. In 60’s when metric hardware was allowed. It snowballed from then.

[Topspinmo]

Exactly.

No I blame our government for letting it happened.

[Bill14564]

So, why do they tariff out products? I consider tariff manipulation of market where is’t not free trade it’s unbalanced trade which mean it’s unfair trade. Only fair trade is zero tariff and zero trumped up taxes on imports. Time world gets in balance, USA has carried world long enough. What did we get for it. Cheated.

You seem to be confusing a few different concepts.

- Zero tariffs would be nice. There might be a good reason to have a specific, non-zero tariff but that would be on a case-by-case basis

- A trade imbalance can be an indication of supply and demand, not unfair practices. The US will ALWAYS have trade imbalance on bananas and will ALWAYS have a trade imbalance with Lesotho. The former is because the US does not grow bananas (at least not in quantity) so we will always import more than we export. The latter is because Lesotho is a particularly poor country that exports diamonds and there is no way that they will ever import as much product from the US as they export diamonds to us.

- By "trumped up taxes" do you mean the current criticism of VAT? If products manufactured in their country are charged a VAT when sold then how is it a "trumped up tax" if products imported to their country are charged the same tax? Should a country only tax only homegrown products and not imports? Does it feel like a "trumped up tax" when Florida charges sales tax on imported products? Should Florida only charge sales tax on US-made products and not imported products?

- How is the US "carrying the world?" The US Govt isn't spending a lot of money on bananas or diamonds or iPhones or imported autos, the US citizen consumer is. How does my buying an iPhone translate to the US Govt carrying the world?

If there are unreasonable barriers to trade then absolutely, fix those. A disparity in wealth or in population (there are more of us to buy things) or a higher standard of living (our wage rate is higher and taxes are lower) are not trade barriers that should be defeated, they are successes that should be celebrated.

[Normal]

In the 80s US companies went to China to get cheap labor AND US companies wanted to get away from UNIONS. So, that made the US middle class weaker and poorer. What fine PATRIOTS they are.

Yes, it is time to correct this. You can’t keep kicking the can down the road for the next guy. We might as well go all-in to get er done.

[bopat]

In today's conversations about manufacturing and innovation, a crucial aspect often gets overlooked: the importance of quality products. We can learn from the past when toys, tools, furniture, and kitchenware were crafted with care and durability, often becoming family heirlooms passed down through generations.

Compare the timeless reliability of classic Craftsman tools to modern alternatives like Harbor Freight's affordable yet ephemeral hand tools, which may not
survive a single project.

And let's not forget computer and phone software - in an earlier era, programs were efficient, reliable, and built to last. Now, rebooting is often the
go-to solution, with little regard for whether it actually solves the problem.

I'm nostalgic for the days when American engineering, manufacturing expertise, and commitment to quality products brought jobs and prosperity to our great nation. It's time to bring those values back, create new opportunities, and let other countries focus on their goals.

If China feels they'll be better served without Boeing, so be it. But part of that solution is for Boeing to stop outsourcing and get their process under control.

[Topspinmo]

You seem to be confusing a few different concepts.

- Zero tariffs would be nice. There might be a good reason to have a specific, non-zero tariff but that would be on a case-by-case basis

- A trade imbalance can be an indication of supply and demand, not unfair practices. The US will ALWAYS have trade imbalance on bananas and will ALWAYS have a trade imbalance with Lesotho. The former is because the US does not grow bananas (at least not in quantity) so we will always import more than we export. The latter is because Lesotho is a particularly poor country that exports diamonds and there is no way that they will ever import as much product from the US as they export diamonds to us.

- By "trumped up taxes" do you mean the current criticism of VAT? If products manufactured in their country are charged a VAT when sold then how is it a "trumped up tax" if products imported to their country are charged the same tax? Should a country only tax only homegrown products and not imports? Does it feel like a "trumped up tax" when Florida charges sales tax on imported products? Should Florida only charge sales tax on US-made products and not imported products?

- How is the US "carrying the world?" The US Govt isn't spending a lot of money on bananas or diamonds or iPhones or imported autos, the US citizen consumer is. How does my buying an iPhone translate to the US Govt carrying the world?

If there are unreasonable barriers to trade then absolutely, fix those. A disparity in wealth or in population (there are more of us to buy things) or a higher standard of living (our wage rate is higher and taxes are lower) are not trade barriers that should be defeated, they are successes that should be celebrated.

Didn’t England pull out of euro? I wonder why?

[Bill14564]

Didn’t England pull out of euro? I wonder why?

For the same reason the dodo went extinct?

[jimhoward]

I think China stopping delivery of Boeing aircraft will be very painful to us as Aircraft are one of the most important products that we export. It’s bound to hurt our trade deficit even if Boeing does have a backlog,

I also think the tariffs on Chinese products will prove painful because I don’t see companies rushing to manufacture in the us based on tariffs that could easily be repealed in the future. Regardless prices on goods will increase.

It seems like we are losing on both ends.

[BrianL99]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.


Companies moved there, because Americans were demanding lower priced goods.`

American consumers are responsible for businesses moving overseas and government is responsible for allowing it to happen.

Why blame "business"? If people stopped buying Chinese made goods, China would be in ruins and all those businesses would be coming back to the USA.

[kkingston57]

No I blame our government for letting it happened.

A lot of people want government out of their lives

[BrianL99]

A lot of people want government out of their lives

People only want government out of their lives, when it suits their needs & wants. Americans are perfectly happy if government regulates those who don't agree with them.

[fdpaq0580]

I think China stopping delivery of Boeing aircraft will be very painful to us as Aircraft are one of the most important products that we export. It’s bound to hurt our trade deficit even if Boeing does have a backlog,

I also think the tariffs on Chinese products will prove painful because I don’t see companies rushing to manufacture in the us based on tariffs that could easily be repealed in the future. Regardless prices on goods will increase.

It seems like we are losing on both ends.

I agree. And, it isn't only the Chinese. "We" seem to be going out of our way to anger everyone.

[tophcfa]

Why blame "business"? If people stopped buying Chinese made goods, China would be in ruins and all those businesses would be coming back to the USA.

I don’t blame businesses for wanting to maximize profits, just like I don’t blame consumers for wanting the best value for the products they purchase. Both parties have the same financial/economic incentive. The real issue at hand is why can businesses sell stuff cheaper and/or maximize profits by moving out of the country. That is the real issue at hand. What’s the answer? Probably a combination of cheaper labor (caused by Labor Unions, wage and working condition laws, peoples willingness to work for cheap with no government subsidies for low wage earners), regulations imposed on business (environmental, safety, DEI, etc…), and taxes on businesses. If the playing field on these important business factors is leveled out between the USA and other countries, businesses wouldn’t need to go abroad. In fact, it would probably be more profitable to stay at home and avoid shipping expenses, and less shipping would reduce their carbon footprint.

[BrianL99]

I don’t blame businesses for wanting to maximize profits, just like I don’t blame consumers for wanting the best value for the products they purchase. Both parties have the same financial/economic incentive. The real issue at hand is why can businesses sell stuff cheaper and/or maximize profits by moving out of the country. That is the real issue at hand. What’s the answer? Probably a combination of cheaper labor (caused by Labor Unions, wage and working condition laws, peoples willingness to work for cheap with no government subsidies for low wage earners), regulations imposed on business (environmental, safety, DEI, etc…), and taxes on businesses. If the playing field on these important business factors is leveled out between the USA and other countries, businesses wouldn’t need to go abroad. In fact, it would probably be more profitable to stay at home and avoid shipping expenses, and less shipping would reduce their carbon footprint.

We're trading paper money, for real "stuff". T Shirts, consumer electronics, junk from Temu, plastic shoes, paper plates. All those cheap workers in China are turning out mostly cheap, throwaway, consumer goods.

In the meantime, we're selling the world; airplanes, technology, financial instruments/technology, ships and industrial machinery.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a decent deal. Do we want our workers, turning out T Shirts & sandals? They're supplying all our "junk".

In the meantime, we're protecting the environment of the entire globe (that no one else really cares about), making it impossible for us to manufacture the junk China can produce.

[Stu from NYC]

We're trading paper money, for real "stuff". T Shirts, consumer electronics, junk from Temu, plastic shoes, paper plates. All those cheap workers in China are turning out mostly cheap, throwaway, consumer goods.

In the meantime, we're selling the world; airplanes, technology, financial instruments/technology, ships and industrial machinery.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a decent deal. Do we want our workers, turning out T Shirts & sandals? They're supplying all our "junk".

In the meantime, we're protecting the environment of the entire globe (that no one else really cares about), making it impossible for us to manufacture the junk China can produce.

The truth of the matter is China is putting out much better quality industrial goods than ever before.

[BrianL99]

The truth of the matter is China is putting out much better quality industrial goods than ever before.

it's a low bar.

[Stu from NYC]

it's a low bar.

I ran a business importing industrial parts from China and have seen the improvement first hand.

[SoCalGal]

I agree. And, it isn't only the Chinese. "We" seem to be going out of our way to anger everyone.

Yeah, especially members of Congress who got strangely wealthy on a public servant's salary.

[MicRoDrafting]

You probably should have taken a minute to understand the issue before making such comments.

This isn't about Boeing being unable to manufacture planes. This is about Boeing, an American manufacturer, losing the sale of 180 planes to China over two years. At about 500 planes per year, this represents nearly 20% loss in sales.

STRONGLY AGREE, Victor

Simply another American Manufacturing Company being Negatively Effected by these Self-Destructive Tariffs …

… that Quite Frankly, are Only Adversely Affecting “WE the PEOPLE” w oncoming Major Cost of Living Expenses and Huge Amounts of Layoffs

ANOTHER BUSINESS
RUN into BANKRUPTCY

“sometimes wish I lacked
logic, they all seem so happy.”

[asianthree]

Companies moved there, because Americans were demanding lower priced goods.`

American consumers are responsible for businesses moving overseas and government is responsible for allowing it to happen.

Why blame "business"? If people stopped buying Chinese made goods, China would be in ruins and all those businesses would be coming back to the USA.

I agree however does one do without for 2-3 years before those businesses get a facility, buy equipment, Find employees before start manufacturing, can happen. You’re a business person, can you get a full manufacturing business up and running in 6 months. Would it have been a better plan to get manufacturing on line first then remove the ease of not buying American.

Old people could probably wait 1-2 years for food, electronics, and clothing. After all think about all the excess one gets rid of with retirement.
Families can’t survive 2-3 years waiting for manufacturing to hit US doorways

[tkret]

yes, correct. Boeing will shift deliveries to another region; another company. China will be, once again, on the losing side of this. Their fleet is aging and will only get older before new aircraft come in to fill the void.

[jimhoward]

I agree however does one do without for 2-3 years before those businesses get a facility, buy equipment, Find employees before start manufacturing, can happen. You’re a business person, can you get a full manufacturing business up and running in 6 months. Would it have been a better plan to get manufacturing on line first then remove the ease of not buying American.

Old people could probably wait 1-2 years for food, electronics, and clothing. After all think about all the excess one gets rid of with retirement.
Families can’t survive 2-3 years waiting for manufacturing to hit US doorways

What is happening is 2-3 years? No one is going to start manufacturing in the US based on the existence of tariffs, which could be repealed at any time. Tariffs are not an embargo, families will still buy imported goods, they will just have to pay more. The standard of living is lowered because the effective tax rate (considering tariffs as a tax) is raised.

[Danube]

All the while, Boeing just landed a huge contract for the new F47 fighter jet and the multi billion dollar C 17 sustainability contract. They will need more workers to keep up.

Overpriced, late delivery junk, like the weak F-35. Having a US monopoly on large passenger jets, Boeing is more of a money-laundering operation.

Should of never let McDonnell Douglas and Boeing merge.

[MollyJo]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.
Exactly. Corporate greed.
Be careful what you wish for.

[Havingfun]

This trade war was a long time coming. We do need to balance our foreign trade stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us

Trade war was started by us or our elected leader
China is not going to back down to being bullied as the US consumes only 15% of what they export. The other fact is that China is producing its own aircraft. Look up Comac
If they can build a hospital in six days when covid hit they can certainly build a plane as they are doing.
We are naive to think that we can somehow recreate the past and that manufacturing inexpensive goods here will return. Our gracious leader has made free trade the boogeyman and that we need to be saved. China is not going to line up to kiss his ass any time soon I’m afraid

[Danube]

Indeed. Jingoism v Realism. Like (still) thinking that China will just roll over rather than retaliate.

They will end up building their own planes and buying Russian aircraft. They will be better off in the long run, just like the US-imposed sanctions since 2022 ended up helping the Russian economy.

[Danube]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.

Exactly. And more and more US media and most people in the federal gov't are calling for war.

[Arctic Fox]

Didn’t England pull out of euro? I wonder why?

The UK stuck with sterling rather than joining the Eurozone.

Remaining decoupled from disparate European economies was a smart move.

[skarra]

I think China stopping delivery of Boeing aircraft will be very painful to us as Aircraft are one of the most important products that we export. It’s bound to hurt our trade deficit even if Boeing does have a backlog,

I also think the tariffs on Chinese products will prove painful because I don’t see companies rushing to manufacture in the us based on tariffs that could easily be repealed in the future. Regardless prices on goods will increase.

It seems like we are losing on both ends.


Agreed. This tariff war is plain foolish.

Manufacturing and the IP along with it went out years ago. We all benefited from it and so let’s move on and do what we do best, services.

[Arctic Fox]

All the while, Boeing just landed a huge contract for the new F47 fighter jet and the multi billion dollar C 17 sustainability contract. They will need more workers to keep up.

I thought the tariffs were designed to narrow the trade gap with other countries? I don't see how getting the USA taxpayer to pay for more warplanes compensates in any way for China pulling out of buying civil planes from a US company.

[LonnyP]

We were told there would be winning!

[Ski Bum]

This backfires on China. Boeing’s backlog is years long, so undelivered planes could find other buyers, albeit with delays in remarketing. China’s airlines, meanwhile, might struggle with older fleets or turn to Airbus, which is also stretched thin. If parts are embargoed, China risks grounding its Boeing-heavy fleets, which could cripple domestic operations.

Yep. So many knee jerk reactions here that only think A to B. Gotta get to C, D, and E!

[Cliff Fr]

Buyer's remorse; looking for someone to blame rather than taking responsibility for our own actions.

"Muscling in" could explain why US manufacturing exports decreased but it doesn't explain an increase in imports. US manufacturing moved to increase profits. American customers encouraged this by voting with their wallets. Everyone was a winner until "we" decided we didn't like the current situation and needed someone to blame.login?

You do know that during covid China threatened to cutoff our supply of antibiotics right? Now they have built an island in the ocean with a military base in order to claim the waters as their own. They are not exactly our benevolent friend. Do you really think we should continue to rely on them for critical minerals, medicines and parts?

[Federspiel]

I sense this is really a political discourse.

[Ski Bum]

I thought the tariffs were designed to narrow the trade gap with other countries? I don't see how getting the USA taxpayer to pay for more warplanes compensates in any way for China pulling out of buying civil planes from a US company.

Narrowing the trade gap is a ruse. There are 4 goals:
1. Reciprocal tariffs, at 10%
2. Removal of non-tariff trade barriers
3. Restore a level of US manufacturing for critical goods for national security
4. Decouple from China

Once that is understood, the news makes a lot more sense.

[Bill14564]

Narrowing the trade gap is a ruse. There are 4 goals:
1. Reciprocal tariffs, at 10%
2. Removal of non-tariff trade barriers
3. Restore a level of US manufacturing for critical goods for national security
4. Decouple from China

Once that is understood, the news makes a lot more sense.

Sounds like so much rationalization.

[airstreamingypsy]

There's a reason why Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world, the cheap prices. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, they are not able to spend for made in America goods. Imagine how much a t-shirt will cost if the people sewing it are making 20.00 an hour.

All this chaos for billionaires, while the middle class gets poorer.

[Bill14564]

login?

You do know that during covid China threatened to cutoff our supply of antibiotics right? Now they have built an island in the ocean with a military base in order to claim the waters as their own. They are not exactly our benevolent friend. Do you really think we should continue to rely on them for critical minerals, medicines and parts?

Not sure what your question is about "login?"

I do know that China and others have pointed out several times that the US is dependent on them for antibiotics and other medical supplies. I also know that (so far) China has not acted on that reality.

You make a good point though: We are not exactly on friendly terms even before the tariffs. Do you really think we should further irritate a country we are currently so dependent on?

As far as expansion goes China has nothing on us, they build a little island while we offer to acquire/annex/invade an area roughly the size of Russia.

[phylt]

Agreed. This tariff war is plain foolish.

Manufacturing and the IP along with it went out years ago. We all benefited from it and so let’s move on and do what we do best, services.

OK... so let's let SERVICES make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, etc etc. Our core manufacturing has been so depleted over the decades. If this was not attempted to be reversed and invest in the USA, we would be unable to be independent in case of war or 'producing countries' (CHINA) hold us as a manufacturing hostage, like depending on THEM for COVID medical supplies.

It's IMPERATIVE for our country to be able to manufacture core products.

This exemplifies the issue:

21 Advantages of Manufacturing in the United States

1. Boosts Economic Growth
The economic impact of USA manufacturing is immense. Manufacturing contributes over $2.3 trillion annually to the GDP, making it a cornerstone of economic stability. By supporting local industries, businesses directly enhance economic prosperity and create a ripple effect that benefits other sectors like retail and services.

2. Creates Job Opportunities
Highly well-paid jobs have been created in the USA’s sector as domestic manufacturing benefits, employing around 12.8 million people to impart the unemployment reduction and as well ensuring families’ dwelling on regular incomes, therefore fortifying the macroeconomic system.

3. Ensures Quality Control
American manufactured products have to maintain steadfast oversight in the production, which is intended for quality use as the key output. This is unlike what other foreign firms lack in the market-edge competition.

4. Reduces Lead Times
Manufacturing in the USA advantages include shorter lead times due to proximity. Business will be able to generate better inventory levels that can respond immediately to fluctuations in the market without waiting for the likes of customs lines at the port.

5. Supports Innovation
USA manufacturing benefits from access to advanced technologies like AI, 3D printing, and robotics. Companies like Ford have leveraged these tools to innovate processes, making production faster and more cost-effective while staying ahead in competitive markets.

6. Improves Supply Chain Reliability
Domestic production minimizes risks associated with long and complex supply chains. For instance, during global crises like the COVID-19 pandemic, American manufacturers were better positioned to maintain operations and deliver goods on time.

7. Enhances National Security
Producing essential goods locally ensures the country’s security. By manufacturing critical items like medical equipment and semiconductors domestically, the USA reduces dependence on foreign suppliers during emergencies.

8. Promotes Sustainability
The drive to sustain manufactories in the USA is the push towards eco-friendly operations. Such as local production significantly decreases carbon dioxide release encompassing shipping while concurrently encouraging reliance on renewable energy sources.

9. Fosters Community Growth
Manufacturing provides work and helps the local economy, too. For example, towns such as those heavily into manufacturing, such as Michigan’s largest city, Detroit—in its automotive industry—find that, by bringing in much more activity into their local areas, whole sectors have growth in terms of education, healthcare, and transportation, among others.

10. Encourages Ethical Practices
Made in the USA advantages also include compliance with labor laws and ethical sourcing of materials. It ensures that their labor rights are not overlooked and also brings in safe workplace standards and fair wages for the workers. It is unlike most offshore factories due to those practices that evoke many questions.

11. Reduces Trade Deficit
This act leads the very way towards reducing our trade deficit, which originated with offshore manufacturing. Producing jobs and developing the economy in the most intelligent way with this itself by leading out national wealth.

12. Leverages Skilled Workforce
In the USA, almost every worker is extremely talented since they get all the training programs and apprenticeships as well. This is because all required labor skills that are necessary to work with emerging technologies will be possessed by these workers.

13. Facilitates Customization
Domestic manufacturing allows businesses to customize products more easily. For instance, a small apparel brand can quickly tweak designs to meet customer preferences without facing long overseas delays.

14. Drives Technology Adoption
The USA manufacturing industry growth thrives on embracing innovations like the Internet of Things (IoT) and automation. These technologies improve efficiency and reduce costs while increasing output.

15. Strengthens Brand Loyalty
Consumers increasingly prefer products made in the USA due to their quality and ethical production. Brands that highlight their local manufacturing efforts often build stronger connections with their audience.

16. Supports Small Businesses
Local manufacturers partner with small businesses, offering them opportunities to scale production without outsourcing. This collaboration fosters entrepreneurship and innovation.

17. Provides Tax Benefits
USA manufacturing also features both federal and state tax benefits. The majority of states will provide credits for the use of renewable resources, or even pay local workers, and this will reduce production costs.

18. Encourages Resilience
Reshoring manufacturing helps companies withstand global economic uncertainties. By producing locally, businesses avoid disruptions caused by geopolitical tensions or international supply chain breakdowns.

19. Aligns with Consumer Preferences
Ethically sourced goods have become a priority for many modern consumers. For that reason, “Made in the USA” products within the border are appealing to buyers who are conscious of responsible production methods.

20. Increases Export Potential
High-quality American products are sought after worldwide. From machinery to agricultural goods, USA-made items dominate global markets, offering significant export opportunities.

21. Drives Long-Term Savings
Although initial costs may be higher, manufacturing in the USA reduces long-term expenses. Savings from fewer returns, lower shipping costs, and reliable operations outweigh upfront investments.

[CybrSage]

Well-thought-out tariff policy helping USA domestic production - not!

Airbus laughing all the way to the bank.

Hate makes people short sighted.

[CybrSage]

China will not give India the opportunity to completely replace them in selling medicines to the US.

India has a massive pharmaceutical industry and they could easily ramp up production.

As the saying goes no nation of producers can survive without a nation of consumers while a nation of consumers can survive without the nation of producers.

[CybrSage]

"take advantage of" == "sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

"Stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us" ->
"Stop allowing other countries to sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

Take advantage of means things like putting a value-added tax on everything not produced in their area and then screaming when a tariff of the same amount is placed on their goods.

Tariffs were fine 2 years ago when a different person put them on China but wrong when they're being put on now.

For example, a 200% tariff was put on Chinese aluminum 2 years ago and no American even batted an eye...

[Bill14564]

OK... so let's let SERVICES make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, etc etc. Our core manufacturing has been so depleted over the decades. If this was not attempted to be reversed and invest in the USA, we would be unable to be independent in case of war or 'producing countries' (CHINA) hold us as a manufacturing hostage, like depending on THEM for COVID medical supplies.

It's IMPERATIVE for our country to be able to manufacture core products.

This exemplifies the issue:

21 Advantages of Manufacturing in the United States

... Long copy/paste of a sales pitch (https://makersrow.com/blog/benefits-of-usa-manufacturing/)...



You misunderstand the meaning of "services."

That sales pitch is attempting to convince companies to manufacture within the US and to use the services of a particular consulting company. Like many sales pitches it highlights the positive aspects while minimizing (or neglecting to mention at all) any negative aspects.

As has been pointed out many times in this thread already, there are some significant barriers to moving production into the US including sourcing of materials, establishing supply chains, two to three years to startup, and a higher prices on equivalent products.

Now the US *could* impose high tariffs or outright bans on imports of "critical items" but isn't that what we are currently criticizing other countries for doing? Are we heading towards some Orwellian definition of free-trade?

[Bill14564]

Take advantage of means things like putting a value-added tax on everything not produced in their area and then screaming when a tariff of the same amount is placed on their goods.

Tariffs were fine 2 years ago when a different person put them on China but wrong when they're being put on now.

For example, a 200% tariff was put on Chinese aluminum 2 years ago and no American even batted an eye...

Was that the 200% tariff on Russian steel and aluminum that was expanded to cover steel and aluminum shipped through third parties like China and Mexico?

Likely no eye batting because it was focused on Russian material in response to their invasion of Ukraine.

[Joe Mack]

I'm a bit surprised that so many experts in international affairs, economics and negotiation tactics reside in our community. Perhaps the President should open an advisory office here in the Villages.

[Rickanvic]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.

Like the people who blame the villages for buying up all the land, instead of the people selling the land.

[Lottoguy]

Say goodbye to more then just Dollar Stores. All those nice little shops like the one about to open in Eastport will close up. BTW Walmart gets 80% of their inventory from China.

[phylt]

You misunderstand the meaning of "services."



What??? There is a CLEAR LINE between SERVICES and MANUFACTURING.

I do not understand the argument.

?????

It IS NOT TOO LATE to attempt restoration of much of the manufacturing that was transferred off shore over the last decades. If THAT'S the argument, it's a short-sighted loser...The USA MUST restore some important Manufacturing!!!!

[Lottoguy]

For 50 years the USA has had a negative trade balance. In that time our economy has grown 350%. This is a fact and not fake news.

[BrianL99]

OK... so let's let SERVICES make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, etc etc. Our core manufacturing has been so depleted over the decades. If this was not attempted to be reversed and invest in the USA, we would be unable to be independent in case of war or 'producing countries' (CHINA) hold us as a manufacturing hostage, like depending on THEM for COVID medical supplies.

It's IMPERATIVE for our country to be able to manufacture core products.

This exemplifies the issue:

21 Advantages of Manufacturing in the United States

1. Boosts Economic Growth

2. Creates Job Opportunities


3. Ensures Quality Control

4. Reduces Lead Times

5. Supports Innovation

6. Improves Supply Chain Reliability

7. Enhances National Security
Producing essential goods locally ensures the country’s security. By manufacturing critical items like medical equipment and

8. Promotes Sustainability

9. Fosters Community Growth

10. Encourages Ethical Practices

11. Reduces Trade Deficit

12. Leverages Skilled Workforce

13. Facilitates Customization

14. Drives Technology Adoption

15. Strengthens Brand Loyalty

16. Supports Small Businesses

17. Provides Tax Benefits

18. Encourages Resilience

19. Aligns with Consumer Preferences

20. Increases Export Potential

21. Drives Long-Term Savings

Although initial costs may be higher, manufacturing in the USA reduces long-term expenses. Savings from fewer returns, lower shipping costs, and reliable operations outweigh upfront investments.


The above was cut & pasted (without attribution) from an advertising site that promotes their Online Marketplace.

Hardly credible information.

21 Benefits Of USA Manufacturing | Maker's Row (https://makersrow.com/blog/benefits-of-usa-manufacturing/)

Maker's Row - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker%27s_Row)

[Johnsocat]

Oh boy, more defense spending

National Security is important, and in my opinion a good (and Constitutional) use of our tax dollars.

Freedom is not free. It costs both treasure and blood sacrifices.

[Aviator1211]

Well-thought-out tariff policy helping USA domestic production - not!

Airbus laughing all the way to the bank.

The reality is simple: the chineese and other countries are using the trade deficit to purchase controlling interests of US land, business, and our governmemnt (via our national debt). The horrible trade and fiscal policies of the last 40 years will be very painful to correct, but absolutely must be corrected.

The big question is, does the US population have the stomach to make the changes, or will we just continue to kick the can down the road until we reach the ciff at the end?

I suspect the answer to that depends on how much you care for your grandchildren.

[Bill14564]

OK... so let's let SERVICES make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, etc etc. Our core manufacturing has been so depleted over the decades.
...

What??? There is a CLEAR LINE between SERVICES and MANUFACTURING.

I do not understand the argument.

?????

...

Yes, there is a clear line between services and manufacturing but you seem to have missed it when you insist that services should make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, etc.

[Johnsocat]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.

It's funny how people blame the greed of companies when the U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and tons of bureaucratic red tape and regulations which makes it cost prohibitive to do business here.

[Johnsocat]

"take advantage of" == "sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

"Stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us" ->
"Stop allowing other countries to sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

Free trade = Capitolism = competition = fair prices

[Johnsocat]

You seem to be confusing a few different concepts.

- Zero tariffs would be nice. There might be a good reason to have a specific, non-zero tariff but that would be on a case-by-case basis

- A trade imbalance can be an indication of supply and demand, not unfair practices. The US will ALWAYS have trade imbalance on bananas and will ALWAYS have a trade imbalance with Lesotho. The former is because the US does not grow bananas (at least not in quantity) so we will always import more than we export. The latter is because Lesotho is a particularly poor country that exports diamonds and there is no way that they will ever import as much product from the US as they export diamonds to us.

- By "trumped up taxes" do you mean the current criticism of VAT? If products manufactured in their country are charged a VAT when sold then how is it a "trumped up tax" if products imported to their country are charged the same tax? Should a country only tax only homegrown products and not imports? Does it feel like a "trumped up tax" when Florida charges sales tax on imported products? Should Florida only charge sales tax on US-made products and not imported products?

- How is the US "carrying the world?" The US Govt isn't spending a lot of money on bananas or diamonds or iPhones or imported autos, the US citizen consumer is. How does my buying an iPhone translate to the US Govt carrying the world?

If there are unreasonable barriers to trade then absolutely, fix those. A disparity in wealth or in population (there are more of us to buy things) or a higher standard of living (our wage rate is higher and taxes are lower) are not trade barriers that should be defeated, they are successes that should be celebrated.

The U.S. carries the world is true.
We may need to import bananas and diamonds, but we in turn export what they cannot grow or produce. Fair enough, right?
Here is the crux, they tariff our goods at enormous rates, while their imports to the U.S. are tariffs at much lower rates.
Just look at the worldwide panic when Trump said he was going to raise our tariffs on them to HALF of what they have been tariffing us.
Huge imbalance which equates to huge trade deficits for us and massive trade profits for the world.

[Johnsocat]

I agree. And, it isn't only the Chinese. "We" seem to be going out of our way to anger everyone.

We need to bring production of vital goods and resources back to our shores from a National Security standpoint.
We have zero lead smelting plants and only one company that makes primers... in other words we are hard pressed to make bullets.
Shortage of steel and aluminum plants affect our ability to build ships, planes and vehicles we would need in the event of war.
Foreign parts and chips are required for many vital products we need.
We cannot achieve peace through strength without the ability to arm and resupply our militaries.

[Sgt Ed]

In the 80s US companies went to China to get cheap labor AND US companies wanted to get away from UNIONS. So, that made the US middle class weaker and poorer. What fine PATRIOTS they are. Patriots have nothing to do with it. Unions are the most guilty. Originally the UNIONS served a good purpose, but they got greedy, and have outlived their intended purpose. Union officials really got greedy. no wonder corporations went to China, they had to just to get competitive. Then too, the government didn't help with the tax system. You wonder why German products are so expensive, look at their manufacturing set up. They tax the poor man to death just to pay for their social system including once a German, always a German. When the wall came down, West Germany bout went broke paying the East Germans. This rant just goes to show there is more than 1 thing that needs addressed to get out of the current pickle jar.
BTW, with the current situation, what system did the government use to decide that Boeing get the F-47 contract, with all the past screw ups. Lately everything Boeing touches turn to sh--. KC-46, New AF 1, Space capsule, and the list goes on. North-Gruman has a much better record, and the newest part of the F-47 they designed and have to give it to Boeing to screw up. When will it all end?

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

The above was cut & pasted (without attribution) from an advertising site that promotes their Online Marketplace.

Hardly credible information.

21 Benefits Of USA Manufacturing | Maker's Row (https://makersrow.com/blog/benefits-of-usa-manufacturing/)

Maker's Row - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker%27s_Row)

I made that post. So now on TOTV we must attribute a source on a cut/paste of an article or such researched by the poster? I am not doing a Doctoral Thesis here. Simply providing my opinion of the topic and using material as a resource. Why is this Hardly Credible Information? Simply because you may not agree? That makes it not credible???

[Bill14564]

The U.S. carries the world is true.
We may need to import bananas and diamonds, but we in turn export what they cannot grow or produce. Fair enough, right?
Here is the crux, they tariff our goods at enormous rates, while their imports to the U.S. are tariffs at much lower rates.
Just look at the worldwide panic when Trump said he was going to raise our tariffs on them to HALF of what they have been tariffing us.
Huge imbalance which equates to huge trade deficits for us and massive trade profits for the world.

Not at all what was done. The tariffs the US recently implemented and then paused were in no way based on the tariffs other countries imposed. Look at the equation for calculating those tariffs and you will see that the foreign tariffs are never included. That is one of the major criticisms of what was done.

Those tariffs were calculated at one half of the percentage of the trade imbalance between the countries. Not a tariff imbalance but the trade imbalance. A large, rich country importing from a small, poor country will result in a trade imbalance even with a 0% tariff. There is nothing the poor country can do to lower its tariff below 0% yet it is being tariffed all the same.

If a country is imposing a 0% tariff now then the only way to reduce the "reciprocal" tariffs is by reducing US import. Sure, this will hurt the source country but there is nothing they can do. It will also hurt the US consumer by raising the price of the desired product to the point it is no longer affordable.

And even if the "reciprocal" tariffs are removed as they have been for the 90 day pause, there are still the 10% across the board, just-because-we-can tariffs.

[Johnsocat]

Exactly. And more and more US media and most people in the federal gov't are calling for war.

What??? Who exactly are calling for war?

[Bill14564]

...

21 Advantages of Manufacturing in the United States




I made that post. So now on TOTV we must attribute a source on a cut/paste of an article or such researched by the poster? I am not doing a Doctoral Thesis here. Simply providing my opinion of the topic and using material as a resource. Why is this Hardly Credible Information? Simply because you may not agree? That makes it not credible???

Interesting.. It looks like phylt made that post unless you are stating that you have two logins to ToTV?

I need to find the ToTV terms of service again. I believe they mentioned posting copyrighted material and I'm sure they mentioned multiple accounts.

[jimjamuser]

Do you blame the companies for moving in pursuit of higher profits, or the laws and regulations that prohibit the companies from making the same profits operating domestically?
I blame the US for allowing them to relocate to AVOID US laws that protect workers that wanted to UNIONIZE. They were running away from UNIONS because the Companies were OVERLY GREEDY and wanted to avoid safety regulations in the USA. The result was US children DYING from lead poison from paint. Then US money built up China into a SUPERPOWER militarily, which now challenges the US. Wasn't that wonderful? We made the MONSTER than can now turn on us. Wasn't that brilliant? if you take into consideration that we pay the shipping cost for China's large ocean ships. And the cost of LOST US manufacturing and that knowledge of manufacturing. Then you consider the BIG cost of China stealing our secrets, you see that trading with China has helped THEM, but not the US of A. We succeeded in creating an enemy. We should have concentrated on trade with Canada and other countries that we can TRUST.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Yes, there is a clear line between services and manufacturing but you seem to have missed it when you insist that services should make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, etc.

???? I was asking a question, like tongue in cheek. Yikes…

[Johnsocat]

There's a reason why Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world, the cheap prices. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, they are not able to spend for made in America goods. Imagine how much a t-shirt will cost if the people sewing it are making 20.00 an hour.

All this chaos for billionaires, while the middle class gets poorer.

Right. It's so much better to buy from countries who don't pay a living wage, or worse use slave labor to produce the goods they export. All the while undercutting the U.S. workers and businesses.
Additionally, many of these countries have human rights violations and a carbon footprint bigger than Bigfoot's.

[jimjamuser]

Companies moved there, because Americans were demanding lower priced goods.`

American consumers are responsible for businesses moving overseas and government is responsible for allowing it to happen.

Why blame "business"? If people stopped buying Chinese made goods, China would be in ruins and all those businesses would be coming back to the USA.
The US government SHOULD have stopped OUTSOURCING in its tracks when it started (probably way back in the 1970s). Which coincidentally (maybe, maybe not) was the period where the middle class started to become weak and when tax policy began to favor the RICH. Tax policy that favors the RICH will eventually turn America into a Dictatorship.

[Johnsocat]

The above was cut & pasted (without attribution) from an advertising site that promotes their Online Marketplace.

Hardly credible information.

21 Benefits Of USA Manufacturing | Maker's Row (https://makersrow.com/blog/benefits-of-usa-manufacturing/)

Maker's Row - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker%27s_Row)

Doesn't make it wrong.

[Cuervo]

Whatever your views about Boeing aircraft should be the least of your worries.
We have insulted and put tariffs on every one friend and foe.
The big fear should be that China start making deals with our trading partner and we are left isolated.
Talk about self-destruction.

[jimjamuser]

A lot of people want government out of their lives
That would be IMPOSSIBLE. The most obvious need for tax money would be for the Military. Next, only a Federal Government could build interstate highways through all states. If most of Federal Government were ELIMINATED, we would be left in a Dictatorship and I believe that MOST people would NOT like that.

[jimjamuser]

I agree. And, it isn't only the Chinese. "We" seem to be going out of our way to anger everyone.
And I would take it a step further and say that it is weakening America and that it is on purpose.

[Johnsocat]

I blame the US for allowing them to relocate to AVOID US laws that protect workers that wanted to UNIONIZE. They were running away from UNIONS because the Companies were OVERLY GREEDY and wanted to avoid safety regulations in the USA. The result was US children DYING from lead poison from paint. Then US money built up China into a SUPERPOWER militarily, which now challenges the US. Wasn't that wonderful? We made the MONSTER than can now turn on us. Wasn't that brilliant? if you take into consideration that we pay the shipping cost for China's large ocean ships. And the cost of LOST US manufacturing and that knowledge of manufacturing. Then you consider the BIG cost of China stealing our secrets, you see that trading with China has helped THEM, but not the US of A. We succeeded in creating an enemy. We should have concentrated on trade with Canada and other countries that we can TRUST.

And now we are trying to fix it. Isn't that what would be best for both us and our Nation in the long run?

[jimjamuser]

I don’t blame businesses for wanting to maximize profits, just like I don’t blame consumers for wanting the best value for the products they purchase. Both parties have the same financial/economic incentive. The real issue at hand is why can businesses sell stuff cheaper and/or maximize profits by moving out of the country. That is the real issue at hand. What’s the answer? Probably a combination of cheaper labor (caused by Labor Unions, wage and working condition laws, peoples willingness to work for cheap with no government subsidies for low wage earners), regulations imposed on business (environmental, safety, DEI, etc…), and taxes on businesses. If the playing field on these important business factors is leveled out between the USA and other countries, businesses wouldn’t need to go abroad. In fact, it would probably be more profitable to stay at home and avoid shipping expenses, and less shipping would reduce their carbon footprint.
I agree with the last concluding statement. Also, I believe that the US could make any product at the same cost as China by using our superior knowledge of robotics. Plus we don't have to pay to ship it here. plus we do NOT steal secrets from ourselves. Plus China uses a lot of COAL. So, the fewer products we buy from China helps the world's climate. Plus China would have fewer missiles and navy to attack US IF we get into a large scale FIGHT.

[jimjamuser]

We're trading paper money, for real "stuff". T Shirts, consumer electronics, junk from Temu, plastic shoes, paper plates. All those cheap workers in China are turning out mostly cheap, throwaway, consumer goods.

In the meantime, we're selling the world; airplanes, technology, financial instruments/technology, ships and industrial machinery.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a decent deal. Do we want our workers, turning out T Shirts & sandals? They're supplying all our "junk".

In the meantime, we're protecting the environment of the entire globe (that no one else really cares about), making it impossible for us to manufacture the junk China can produce.
Please refer to post # 97 plus many, many people in the WORLD do CARE about environmental pollution. I could go on and on.

[bumpa]

Companies moved there, because Americans were demanding lower priced goods.`

American consumers are responsible for businesses moving overseas and government is responsible for allowing it to happen.

Why blame "business"? If people stopped buying Chinese made goods, China would be in ruins and all those businesses would be coming back to the USA.

Perhaps f we addressed the wage imbalance in this country the middle class might have the disposable income needed to afford higher priced American made goods. Track the history of the rise in imports from China and Japan and you'll find it closely follows the shift from high middle class wages to higher CEO wages. CEO's buy from Germany their workers from China and other low price countries. Just one piece of the puzzle.

[jimjamuser]

I agree however does one do without for 2-3 years before those businesses get a facility, buy equipment, Find employees before start manufacturing, can happen. You’re a business person, can you get a full manufacturing business up and running in 6 months. Would it have been a better plan to get manufacturing on line first then remove the ease of not buying American.

Old people could probably wait 1-2 years for food, electronics, and clothing. After all think about all the excess one gets rid of with retirement.
Families can’t survive 2-3 years waiting for manufacturing to hit US doorways
Instead of buying NEW Chinese products a consumer can go to the large thrift stores and get HIGHER QUALITY used products for less COST than NEW Chinese products. Also, it is a patriotic thing to do because the salaries for the workers helps Americans NOT the Chinese.

[jimjamuser]

The UK stuck with sterling rather than joining the Eurozone.

Remaining decoupled from disparate European economies was a smart move.
I don't think that IF the decoupling vote were held today that it would pass. With the US self-destructing, the UK and Europe will have many advantages, including attracting high quality University students.

[jimjamuser]

Agreed. This tariff war is plain foolish.

Manufacturing and the IP along with it went out years ago. We all benefited from it and so let’s move on and do what we do best, services.
Services will NOT win a country a World War.

[jimjamuser]

I thought the tariffs were designed to narrow the trade gap with other countries? I don't see how getting the USA taxpayer to pay for more warplanes compensates in any way for China pulling out of buying civil planes from a US company.
Tariffs may have been designed to weaken America.

[jimjamuser]

Narrowing the trade gap is a ruse. There are 4 goals:
1. Reciprocal tariffs, at 10%
2. Removal of non-tariff trade barriers
3. Restore a level of US manufacturing for critical goods for national security
4. Decouple from China

Once that is understood, the news makes a lot more sense.
#3 would be a good goal. #5 in my opinion would be to weaken US gross national product (GNP) and therefore society.

[jimjamuser]

There's a reason why Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world, the cheap prices. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, they are not able to spend for made in America goods. Imagine how much a t-shirt will cost if the people sewing it are making 20.00 an hour.

All this chaos for billionaires, while the middle class gets poorer.
Shop at thrift stores, garage sales, and on-line used sites.

[jimjamuser]

Take advantage of means things like putting a value-added tax on everything not produced in their area and then screaming when a tariff of the same amount is placed on their goods.

Tariffs were fine 2 years ago when a different person put them on China but wrong when they're being put on now.

For example, a 200% tariff was put on Chinese aluminum 2 years ago and no American even batted an eye...
Economists agree that using SOME select tariffs is a good idea, NOT tariffs on everything.

[Wilson02852]

It's about time the US stopped kissing China's butt. Next on the list fundamental Islamic countries.

Turning the other cheek with appeasement is not working.

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps f we addressed the wage imbalance in this country the middle class might have the disposable income needed to afford higher priced American made goods. Track the history of the rise in imports from China and Japan and you'll find it closely follows the shift from high middle class wages to higher CEO wages. CEO's buy from Germany their workers from China and other low price countries. Just one piece of the puzzle.
I agree and I think that it began in about 1970. From then on the middle class wages (with respect to cost of living) never increased. The death of UNIONS and OUTSOURCING allowed the top CEOs to DEMAND more salary.

[jimhoward]

There was a recent survey that went viral which asked:

Would America be better off if more people worked in factories? To which 80% said yes.

Then it asked. Would you be better off working in a factory? To which 25% said yes.

There are something like 500,000 open manufacturing jobs in the US right now.

I love manufacturing. The problems are interesting, it requires excellence in every aspect of business, including engineering, quality, facilities, marketing, finance, IT, human resources. It takes entrepreneurialism, capital and labor.

But, I think there are a lot more people in this country that want the US to increase domestic manufacturing than that want to manufacturer things themselves. People want to buy US made products, they don't want to themselves make products. A generalization I realize.

[Andyb]

You probably should have taken a minute to understand the issue before making such comments.

This isn't about Boeing being unable to manufacture planes. This is about Boeing, an American manufacturer, losing the sale of 180 planes to China over two years. At about 500 planes per year, this represents nearly 20% loss in sales.

What bothers me is China makes most of our prescription medicine. What are we really getting? They don’t care. Time to bring manufacturing back to the US.

[jimjamuser]

There was a recent survey that went viral which asked:

Would America be better off if more people worked in factories? To which 80% said yes.

Then it asked. Would you be better off working in a factory? To which 25% said yes.

There are something like 500,000 open manufacturing jobs in the US right now.

I love manufacturing. The problems are interesting, it requires excellence in every aspect of business, including engineering, quality, facilities, marketing, finance, IT, human resources. It takes entrepreneurialism, capital and labor.

But, I think there are a lot more people in this country that want the US to increase domestic manufacturing than that want to manufacturer things themselves. People want to buy US made products, they don't want to themselves make products. A generalization I realize.
A factor to consider is that in the near future much of the MUNDANE manufacturing will be done by robotics. More products made by fewer people.

[jimjamuser]

What bothers me is China makes most of our prescription medicine. What are we really getting? They don’t care. Time to bring manufacturing back to the US.
If more prescription medication were made in the US then we would have better control of the quality.

[jimhoward]

A factor to consider is that in the near future much of the MUNDANE manufacturing will be done by robotics. More products made by fewer people.

That makes manufacturing even better. It means we can make more stuff to potentially export with fewer people on the floor and less labor cost issues.

But I realize I may be commenting on the wrong thread, as this one is about China stopping Boeing deliveries and I was talking more generally about bringing manufacturing jobs to the US.

[Arctic Fox]

Americans started buying Japanese cars in quantity in the 1970's, not because they were unpatriotic but because they wanted a reliable vehicle that would get them from A to B. American cars, largely made in unionized factories, were not fit for purpose.

Merely shifting production back to the USA is not going to work unless quality, and value for money, can be assured.

[Normal]

Americans started buying Japanese cars in quantity in the 1970's, not because they were unpatriotic but because they wanted a reliable vehicle that would get them from A to B. American cars, largely made in unionized factories, were not fit for purpose.

Merely shifting production back to the USA is not going to work unless quality, and value for money, can be assured.

///

[Normal]

Americans started buying Japanese cars in quantity in the 1970's, not because they were unpatriotic but because they wanted a reliable vehicle that would get them from A to B. American cars, largely made in unionized factories, were not fit for purpose.

Merely shifting production back to the USA is not going to work unless quality, and value for money, can be assured.


Americans were behind the 8 ball for a while with Japan and Korea and not just in the automobile sector. Most televisions, radios, toys etc were generally made in the Orient We fixed that through the years with tariffs and trade deals. Reagan did the biggest move with the 100% tariff on all Japanese goods. Of course in 95 both sides came to the table and things have been great ever since. . Unfortunately, it seems we have to go through those growing pains with China now.

[daniel200]

Say goodbye to more then just Dollar Stores. All those nice little shops like the one about to open in Eastport will close up. BTW Walmart gets 80% of their inventory from China.

Dollar Stores will disappear. $5 stores will replace them.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Exactly. Corporate greed.
Be careful what you wish for.

"Corporate" greed = "stockholder demands."

Stockholders = mostly Americans. Americans = taxpayers.

It's a vicious cycle. In order to please the stockholders, corporations MUST turn a profit. The more they profit, the happier the stockholders, the more successful the corporation, the more stockholders they have, the more profits they have to gain, the happier the stockholders, the more successful the corporation, and so on ad infinitum.

The opposite of this is - communism. Which is something this country isn't interested in. We are a capitalistic society, we thrive on consumerism. In order to do that, we MUST allow our corporations to profit, and if that means they have to trade globally, then that's what it means.

You can't have it both ways. You're finding this out now. Tariffs hurt consumers, which hurts local businesses, which either are affiliated with or acquire goods from corporations. Corporations take a dive in profits when the local businesses suffer, and then the corporate stockholders get upset, and that hurts the corporations.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What bothers me is China makes most of our prescription medicine. What are we really getting? They don’t care. Time to bring manufacturing back to the US.

Most of it comes from India. China is in second place. The difference between first and second place is pretty profound though. Around 45% of our medicine comes from India. Less than 20% comes from China. The rest comes from various other countries, including being made here in the USA.

[fdpaq0580]

What bothers me is China makes most of our prescription medicine. What are we really getting? They don’t care. Time to bring manufacturing back to the US.

They won't poison us. At least not right away. They will just make a nice profit treating our symptoms. Hope you feel better now.

[RICH1]

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.
EXACTLY .... Corporate Greed !
evidently Americans have a difficult time with their memory!
China will Capitalize on Our terrible Trade policies..

[CybrSage]

- By "trumped up taxes" do you mean the current criticism of VAT? If products manufactured in their country are charged a VAT when sold then how is it a "trumped up tax" if products imported to their country are charged the same tax? Should a country only tax only homegrown products and not imports? Does it feel like a "trumped up tax" when Florida charges sales tax on imported products?


VAT is not charged on things made locally, it is charged on things not made locally.
VAT, in the EU is not charged on things made in the EU, it is on things made in the US and other non-EU countries.
A 20% VAT is simply a 20% tariffs that the consumer pays directly.

[rsmurano]

Tariffs are brilliant. Why should WE suffer from other countries putting tariffs on our products when we accept items from other countries with no tariffs? People are naive in this area. Why should our farmers, car manufacturers, lumber products, and our other manufacturers have tariffs on their products from other countries that restrict us from selling in those countries? People are so narrow minded to disregard these facts because our new tariffs might cost them a few cents while working things out.

You think taking the tariffs off now to wait for new businesses to come online is a good idea? The worst idea and it will never work. Another short sightedness people have. Something has to happen before we Americans make a move. Just like in other areas, when things start to get more expensive, we have alternatives. For example, we have so many options on energy sources but some of them cost more, but when energy gets to be a certain price, some of those more expensive options start coming into play.

Americans don’t want t-shirt/shoe manufacturing here in the states, we want the AI businesses, the more high paying jobs here, which is starting to happen. But I don’t want to see Vietnam impose huge tariffs on our goods coming into Vietnam so our farmers/car manufacturers can’t play in that country. How fair is that.

We need to stop America being a cash cow for the world.

[Bill14564]

VAT is not charged on things made locally, it is charged on things not made locally.
VAT, in the EU is not charged on things made in the EU, it is on things made in the US and other non-EU countries.
A 20% VAT is simply a 20% tariffs that the consumer pays directly.

This is simply incorrect. VAT is charged at each step of production including the final sale.

Charging VAT on US goods overseas is equivalent to collecting State Sales Tax on foreign goods sold in the US. In both cases the taxing authority collects on the final sales and the consumer pays the tax.

[Bill14564]

Tariffs are brilliant. Why should WE suffer from other countries putting tariffs on our products when we accept items from other countries with no tariffs? People are naive in this area. Why should our farmers, car manufacturers, lumber products, and our other manufacturers have tariffs on their products from other countries that restrict us from selling in those countries? People are so narrow minded to disregard these facts because our new tariffs might cost them a few cents while working things out.

....



That exact argument is being tossed back at the US today.

It would be nice to see a table of what tariffs US products are subject to in foreign countries and compare that to the new, across-the-board 10% tariff and the paused "reciprocal" tariffs..

[Topspinmo]

I think China stopping delivery of Boeing aircraft will be very painful to us as Aircraft are one of the most important products that we export. It’s bound to hurt our trade deficit even if Boeing does have a backlog,

I also think the tariffs on Chinese products will prove painful because I don’t see companies rushing to manufacture in the us based on tariffs that could easily be repealed in the future. Regardless prices on goods will increase.

It seems like we are losing on both ends.

You do know we’re 36 trillion plus last time I looked in debt. It generates funds for our government and try to get fair trade. Something that hasn’t happened since WW2. We rebuild civilized world and what did we get for it? Cheated.

[Topspinmo]

That exact argument is being tossed back at the US today.

It would be nice to see a table of what tariffs US products are subject to in foreign countries and compare that to the new, across-the-board 10% tariff and the paused "reciprocal" tariffs..

I see you partially don’t care about US? Why?

[Topspinmo]

What bothers me is China makes most of our prescription medicine. What are we really getting? They don’t care. Time to bring manufacturing back to the US.

They make it cheap and drug companies hike price 3000 precent plus.

[Kenswing]

China halting deliveries of Boeing might hurt for awhile but they may more than make up for it if tariffs on Airbus planes cause U.S airlines to cancel their orders and switch them to Boeing.

[Topspinmo]

I don't think that IF the decoupling vote were held today that it would pass. With the US self-destructing, the UK and Europe will have many advantages, including attracting high quality University students.

Been self destructing since mid 60’s? Why? You know why?

Yes, we need more over educated mouths criticizing.

[fdpaq0580]

EXACTLY .... Corporate Greed !
evidently Americans have a difficult time with their memory!
China will Capitalize on Our terrible Trade policies..

Just business. Nothing personal.

[Caymus]

Apparently, China's orders are 3% of Boeing's backlog.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/china-returns-boeing-jets-it-s-a-headwind-for-the-stock/ar-AA1D6RQ6?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=6c9bbcb7c9ec4a19907f9f2cce541609&ei=22

[jimjamuser]

VAT is not charged on things made locally, it is charged on things not made locally.
VAT, in the EU is not charged on things made in the EU, it is on things made in the US and other non-EU countries.
A 20% VAT is simply a 20% tariffs that the consumer pays directly.
Tariffs are a REGRESSIVE tax, like a sales tax, that disproportionately hurts LOWER income earners. The end goal is to redistribute dollars from the working class to the wealthy class. Also, today we have fewer IRS agents so it is easier for the RICH to CHEAT on their income taxes.

[jimjamuser]

Americans started buying Japanese cars in quantity in the 1970's, not because they were unpatriotic but because they wanted a reliable vehicle that would get them from A to B. American cars, largely made in unionized factories, were not fit for purpose.

Merely shifting production back to the USA is not going to work unless quality, and value for money, can be assured.
Another reason for shifting back to America to make things is that those manufacturing skills will be needed in case the US ever goes to WAR.

[jimjamuser]

Tariffs are brilliant. Why should WE suffer from other countries putting tariffs on our products when we accept items from other countries with no tariffs? People are naive in this area. Why should our farmers, car manufacturers, lumber products, and our other manufacturers have tariffs on their products from other countries that restrict us from selling in those countries? People are so narrow minded to disregard these facts because our new tariffs might cost them a few cents while working things out.

You think taking the tariffs off now to wait for new businesses to come online is a good idea? The worst idea and it will never work. Another short sightedness people have. Something has to happen before we Americans make a move. Just like in other areas, when things start to get more expensive, we have alternatives. For example, we have so many options on energy sources but some of them cost more, but when energy gets to be a certain price, some of those more expensive options start coming into play.

Americans don’t want t-shirt/shoe manufacturing here in the states, we want the AI businesses, the more high paying jobs here, which is starting to happen. But I don’t want to see Vietnam impose huge tariffs on our goods coming into Vietnam so our farmers/car manufacturers can’t play in that country. How fair is that.

We need to stop America being a cash cow for the world.
We can have AI. But, the problem is that the US work force is NOT engaged in enough manufacturing. A chart of MANUFACTURING shows it going down steadily since 1950 until today only 9.7 % of Americans are working in manufacturing. That would hurt the US in case of WAR.

[Pugchief]

Dollar Stores will disappear. $5 stores will replace them.

That ship has sailed. Dollar Tree has been $1.25 for a long time and they have full aisles where the merchandise is $3-5

[Pugchief]

Communism. Which is something this country isn't interested in.

It certainly should be something this country isn't interested in, but there are lots of Gen Z and Gen Alpha young people who feel otherwise. It's hard to understand, and it's sad.

[Pugchief]

VAT is not charged on things made locally, it is charged on things not made locally.
VAT, in the EU is not charged on things made in the EU, it is on things made in the US and other non-EU countries.
A 20% VAT is simply a 20% tariffs that the consumer pays directly.

Not only is this inaccurate as Bill pointed out, the truth is actually pretty much the opposite:
European_Union_value_added_tax_Thirteenth_Directiv e (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#Thirteenth_Directiv e)

[Pugchief]

RICH to CHEAT on their income taxes.

Do you have some documentation to back up your persistent assertion that the wealth cheat on their taxes at a higher rate than anyone else? Otherwise, it's just your fantasy.

[jimjamuser]

Do you have some documentation to back up your persistent assertion that the wealth cheat on their taxes at a higher rate than anyone else? Otherwise, it's just your fantasy.
The Washington Post June 1, 2017 ......."Rich people are MORE likely to cheat on their taxes than poor or middle class people".

[Regorp]

Well-thought-out tariff policy helping USA domestic production - not!

Airbus laughing all the way to the bank.

Many countries have charged us tariffs for years and we did not. Time for us to make money, too.

[Topspinmo]

This is simply incorrect. VAT is charged at each step of production including the final sale.

Charging VAT on US goods overseas is equivalent to collecting State Sales Tax on foreign goods sold in the US. In both cases the taxing authority collects on the final sales and the consumer pays the tax.

Which drives up price of imported. You know that.

[Pugchief]

The Washington Post June 1, 2017 ......."Rich people are MORE likely to cheat on their taxes than poor or middle class people".

Here's the link to that article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/01/we-now-know-who-cheats-on-their-taxes-hint-its-not-the-middle-class/)

Thank you for providing a source. In spite of the authors' conclusions, my interpretation is that they are:

1. Talking about the ultra-wealthy, not the kind of people you'd run into here inTV, and
2. The "cheating" involves using services to figure out how not to pay taxes. So is that cheating, or just using loopholes to avoid paying legally?

[Topspinmo]

There was a recent survey that went viral which asked:

Would America be better off if more people worked in factories? To which 80% said yes.

Then it asked. Would you be better off working in a factory? To which 25% said yes.

There are something like 500,000 open manufacturing jobs in the US right now.

I love manufacturing. The problems are interesting, it requires excellence in every aspect of business, including engineering, quality, facilities, marketing, finance, IT, human resources. It takes entrepreneurialism, capital and labor.

But, I think there are a lot more people in this country that want the US to increase domestic manufacturing than that want to manufacturer things themselves. People want to buy US made products, they don't want to themselves make products. A generalization I realize.


“it requires excellence in every aspect of business, including engineering, quality, facilities, marketing, finance, IT, human resources. It takes entrepreneurialism, capital and labor.”

Near slave labor countries don’t those have expenses cause foreign business paid for it. They also steal or copy products with different name. Why business when overseas, now can we talk about EPA requirements importer don’t have to follow? Not fair trade why tariffs will equal plying fields. IMO anything coming from China should have 500% tariff and Mexico 200% due to wage and EPA standards they don’t have to meet.

[Topspinmo]

Here's the link to that article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/01/we-now-know-who-cheats-on-their-taxes-hint-its-not-the-middle-class/)

Thank you for providing a source. In spite of the authors' conclusions, my interpretation is that they are:

1. Talking about the ultra-wealthy, not the kind of people you'd run into here inTV, and
2. The "cheating" involves using services to figure out how not to pay taxes. So is that cheating, or just using loopholes to avoid paying legally?

Why we have 10,000 plus pages of exemptions for rich, rich law makers lawyers write tax laws so they can get out of paying their fair share. Most famous words for one of richest it world said “ my secretary pays more taxes than me”. His secretary don’t make that mush and don’t have army of tax lawyers getting her out of paying cause she can’t use the exemptions that rich can. Yes, there rich slum lords in villages that gets to deduct any expenses on rentals, but I can’t deduct my new roof I was forced to replace.

[Bill14564]

Which drives up price of imported. You know that.

Should foreign goods be sold in the US sales tax-free in order to not drive up the price of items imported to the US? The VAT is their equivalent of our sales tax.

[Bill14564]

Many countries have charged us tariffs for years and we did not. Time for us to make money, too.

Are you saying you believe the US has not charged tariffs until this year? Look up the Harmonized Tariff Schedule. Hundreds of pages of tariffs charged on items imported to the US.

[biker1]

No. His quote was essentially that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than him, not more taxes, two different things. The reason is investment income, such as capital gains, typically has a lower tax rate than W-2 income. It should since you are risking your money. Buffett makes his money from investment income.

Why we have 10,000 plus pages of exemptions for rich, rich law makers lawyers write tax laws so they can get out of paying their fair share. Most famous words for one of richest it world said “ my secretary pays more taxes than me”. His secretary don’t make that mush and don’t have army of tax lawyers getting her out of paying cause she can’t use the exemptions that rich can. Yes, there rich slum lords in villages that gets to deduct any expenses on rentals, but I can’t deduct my new roof I was forced to replace.

[Arctic Fox]

Many countries have charged us tariffs for years and we did not. Time for us to make money, too.

I think you misunderstand what a tariff is. It is a tax on the consumer, not a charge on the manufacturer.

If a tariff of 10% is imposed on imports then YOU end up paying 10% more for that item.

The US Government makes money; YOU don't. Within the US there is no net change.

[JMintzer]

Why we have 10,000 plus pages of exemptions for rich, rich law makers lawyers write tax laws so they can get out of paying their fair share. Most famous words for one of richest it world said “ my secretary pays more taxes than me”. His secretary don’t make that mush and don’t have army of tax lawyers getting her out of paying cause she can’t use the exemptions that rich can. Yes, there rich slum lords in villages that gets to deduct any expenses on rentals, but I can’t deduct my new roof I was forced to replace.

That quote has been misinterpreted for years...

[Topspinmo]

No. His quote was essentially that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than him, not more taxes, two different things. The reason is investment income, such as capital gains, typically has a lower tax rate than W-2 income. It should since you are risking your money. Buffett makes his money from investment income.


No I heard words out of his mouth, he may of explained it later.

[Topspinmo]

Dollar Stores will disappear. $5 stores will replace them.

Don;t you mean 10 dollar stores, dollar store already 5 dollar store.:$:

[biker1]

Provide a link otherwise ….

No I heard words out of his mouth, he may of explained it later.

[BillyGrown]

EXACTLY .... Corporate Greed !
evidently Americans have a difficult time with their memory!
China will Capitalize on Our terrible Trade policies..

Yes they have for a long time. Hopefully through our current actions we straighten things out.