Should this be a short par 4 or a long par 3

[Rainger99]

The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

[golfing eagles]

The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

Well, the 86th longest driver on tour averages 300. The 150th, 294 yards---yep pretty fair. And 300 to hole might only be 280 cover. No different that a 320 par 4 where the longest hitters have a big advantage. And I suspect some of the longer hitters won't even need driver on this hole. (Bryson will swing hard with a gap wedge :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

[Snakster66]

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

-Jimmy Dugan

[Hape2Bhr]

Well, the 86th longest driver on tour averages 300. The 150th, 294 yards---yep pretty fair. And 300 to hole might only be 280 cover. No different that a 320 par 4 where the longest hitters have a big advantage. And I suspect some of the longer hitters won't even need driver on this hole. (Bryson will swing hard with a gap wedge :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Billy Casper won a U.S. Open by laying up 4 times on a par 3 at Winged Foot.

[jimhoward]

At the risk of stating the obvious, the par value you assign to a hole has no effect on a tournament. It raises or lowers everyone score relative to par, but does not affect the scores relative to each other.

[Rainger99]

Billy Casper won a U.S. Open by laying up 4 times on a par 3 at Winged Foot.

I had never heard that.

However, according to The NY Times, in 1959 it played at 216 yards - not 300 yards.
It said that he laid up because he made a double bogey after going for the green in a practice round.

Why some may lay up on par 3 at Winged Foot - NBC Sports (https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/shades-billy-casper-why-some-pros-may-lay-winged-foots-par-3-third-hole)

[Rainger99]

Well, the 86th longest driver on tour averages 300. The 150th, 294 yards---yep pretty fair. And 300 to hole might only be 280 cover. No different that a 320 par 4 where the longest hitters have a big advantage. And I suspect some of the longer hitters won't even need driver on this hole. (Bryson will swing hard with a gap wedge :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Of the top 180 PGA golfers, 96 average 300+. Golfers ranked 97-180 average below 300 yards.

The shortest hitter is Brian Campbell who “only” averages 275.3 yards. However, he won the Mexican Open in February winning $1.26 million.

The interesting thing about that victory is that Campbell won in a playoff against Aldrich Potgieter who is the longest driver on the tour.


2025 PGA Tour - Drive Distance Leaders - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/golf/stats/pga-tour/drive-distance/)

[Topspinmo]

Most pro golfer can fly ball around 280 plus with drivers, with bounce and roll out they can birdie it. Now can they control drive the question not length IMO.

[Marathon Man]

Doesn't matter. Total strokes are used to determine the winner.

[BrianL99]

The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

Almost no one will need a Driver for the 8th hole. Cover is only about 230 and it's probably the flattest and easiest Green on the golf course. Most everyone will hit a Utility Iron or a 4 Iron. It was the 5th hardest hole at the 2007 Open, at 300 yards ... guys have gained a lot of distance in the last 18 years. Bryson says he's hitting a "soft 7 Iron". [https://x.com/PGATUOR/status/1925657099704381583/photo/1]

The hole will probably play to an average of 3.3. In 2007, no hole at Oakmont averaged under Par. The 14th was the best to Par, at 4.05

There's hardly anyone one the PGA Tour who can't carry it 290+ yards, if they want to.

As others have mentioned, "Par" is an arbitrary number and means nothing, unless you're playing a Stableford.

[coleprice]

The average PGA drive of 300 yards is accomplished with a DRIVER. Many PGA pros can't hit 300 yards with anything but a Driver or 3-Wood, if they can reach 300 hards at all. Even the longest hitters would have trouble reaching the green on a 300 yard par 3 if they're teeing off into a brisk head-wind. So, in my (humble) opinion, a par 3 of longer than 250 or 260 yards is not a true test and shouldn't be used. It should also be noted that "drivable Par 4" holes are usually around 320 to 330 yards.

[SHIBUMI]

I think the USGA lists 250 as the mark............if the hole does in fact play 300, it is just plain stupid and being done for theatrics. It must not actually play that long.
Older courses like this can be made obsolete with the new distances. For the tour, on courses that can't get longer, the answer is to lower par. Par 5's into par 4's most of the answer. Yes, Par is a number that can be changed, but it needs to make sense, 300 yard par 3, is just theatre, but, thats what all sports are today, creative theatre. Don't try to make sense out of it or justify it.

The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

[BrianL99]

The average PGA drive of 300 yards is accomplished with a DRIVER. Many PGA pros can't hit 300 yards with anything but a Driver or 3-Wood, if they can reach 300 hards at all. ....


"Drives" on the PGA are not measured in relation to the club used. Driver distance for PGA Tour statistics, are measured on 2 holes, regardless of what club the player hits.

In 2024, Zach Johnson ranked 176th in Driving Distance, at 278.4. He also hit one 356 Yards at the Charles Schwab.

In 2024, Brian Campbell ranked 180th (last) on the PGA Tour in Driving Distance, at 272.9 Yards. He hit one 322 at US Open.

In 2024 Akshay Bhatia (a jerk), ranked 89th in Driving Distance, at 293.1. He hit one 440 Yards at the Sentry.

Max Homa ranked 72nd in Driving Distance, at 295 Yards. He hit one 477 at the Sentry.

In 2024, there were 337 Drives over 350 yards and 105 Drives over 400 yards.

Please name one player on the PGA Tour, who can't hit the ball over 300 yards.

These guys have plenty in reserve, when they want to go after it.

Unless the 8th hole plays dead into the wind, I doubt a single PGA Tour Player will hit Driver on 8. The majority will be hitting a utility club or maybe a 5 wood. Those guys are good.

[Rainger99]

I think the USGA lists 250 as the mark............if the hole does in fact play 300, it is just plain stupid and being done for theatrics.

It is playing at 301 yards today. The longest par 3 in US Open history.

[Rainger99]

It is playing at 301 yards today. The longest par 3 in US Open history.

Entering the 4th round, it is the third hardest hole.

The average score is 3.480.

There have been 11 birdies,
198 pars, 149 bogeys, 21 double bogeys, and 1 other.

[retiredguy123]

The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??
Are you saying that they should change the length of the hole or just call it a par 4? If you don't change the length, no one is being treated unfairly.

[Rainger99]

Are you saying that they should change the length of the hole or just call it a par 4? If you don't change the length, no one is being treated unfairly.

I agree. You could have every hole be a par 3, 4, or 5.

However, par is supposed to reflect the score a scratch player is expected to score on a given hole. Pros are better than scratch golfers.

[Rainger99]

Rory reached the green but was 16 or 18 yards short of the flag.

He is one of the longest hitters on tour.

[fdpaq0580]

Well, the 86th longest driver on tour averages 300. The 150th, 294 yards---yep pretty fair. And 300 to hole might only be 280 cover. No different that a 320 par 4 where the longest hitters have a big advantage. And I suspect some of the longer hitters won't even need driver on this hole. (Bryson will swing hard with a gap wedge :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

What is a "gap wedge"? Could I use it to get though the gap between the clowns legs? 🤡

[BrianL99]

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

Almost no one will need a Driver for the 8th hole.

Most everyone will hit a Utility Iron or a 4 Iron. It was the 5th hardest hole at the 2007 Open, at 300 yards ... guys have gained a lot of distance in the last 18 years. Bryson says he's hitting a "soft 7 Iron". [https://x.com/PGATUOR/status/1925657099704381583/photo/1]


Rory reached the green but was 16 or 18 yards short of the flag.

He is one of the longest hitters on tour.

The course is soft today.

Rory is not one of the "longest hitters on tour" with his irons. He's in the upper-middle of the pack with irons ... by design.

Rory hit a 3 Iron to the 8th green this morning.

When it's dry and no wind, the 8th is hybrid/driving iron distance for most, 3 wood for a few guys.

I'll be surprised if more than 5-10 players will use Driver today.

https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1lc2s8j/rory_with_an_iron_at_the_8th_hole_301yd_par_3/ (You can watch the video, so you can see it's an iron.)

[Rainger99]

Rory is not one of the "longest hitters on tour" with his irons. He's in the upper-middle of the pack with irons ... by design.

Based on Trackman data and player profiles, here’s a rough estimate of 4-iron carry distances for these players, assuming they exceed the PGA Tour average (209 yards):
- DeChambeau: ~230-240 yards
- Rahm: ~225-235 yards
- McIlroy: ~225-235 yards
- Scheffler: ~220-230 yards
- Finau: ~220-230 yards(

Conclusion
Bryson DeChambeau, Jon Rahm, Rory McIlroy, Scottie Scheffler, and Tony Finau are among the PGA Tour players likely hitting their irons the longest, particularly long irons (3-iron, 4-iron), due to their high swing speeds, optimized equipment, and elite ball-striking stats. Their ability to carry long irons 220-240 yards, well above tour averages, gives them an edge on long approach shots. For precise distances, we’d need player-specific Trackman data, which isn’t publicly available.

[BrianL99]

Based on Trackman data and player profiles, here’s a rough estimate of 4-iron carry distances for these players, assuming they exceed the PGA Tour average (209 yards):


- McIlroy: ~225-235 yards



Conclusion
Bryson DeChambeau, Jon Rahm, Rory McIlroy, Scottie Scheffler, and Tony Finau are among the PGA Tour players likely hitting their irons the longest, particularly long irons (3-iron, 4-iron), due to their high swing speeds, optimized equipment, and elite ball-striking stats. Their ability to carry long irons 220-240 yards, well above tour averages, gives them an edge on long approach shots. For precise distances, we’d need player-specific Trackman data, which isn’t publicly available.


"Trackman data", bears absolutely no relation to PGA Tour performance. Trackman is a ball flight monitor, that is not used (alone) to generate PGA Tour statistics. It's part of the process & used primarily for "viewer enhancement".

ShotLink is the technology that measures actual PGA Tour Event shots. Different process, different technology, different results, different motivation and not simulated ... it's real life.

If you'd like access to direct ShotLink Data, get yourself a subscription to Data Golf APi. If you'd like access to Trackman data, that's available too, but that data isn't PGA Tour real data.

As for Rory, he hits his 4 Iron 225-230 yards? Funny how he hit his 3 Iron onto the 8th Green today, when it was playing 301 yards. 71 Yard gap between his 4 iron and 3 Iron is a fairly large gap, huh?

[Rainger99]

"Trackman data", bears absolutely no relation to PGA Tour performance. Trackman is a ball flight monitor, that is not officially used by the PGA Tour.

ShotLink is the technology that measures actual PGA Tour Event shots. Different process, different technology, different results, different motivation and not simulated ... it's real life.

As for Rory, he hits his 4 Iron 225-230 yards? Funny how he hit his 3 Iron onto the 8th Green today, when it was playing 301 yards. 71 Yard gap between his 4 iron and 3 Iron is a fairly large gap, huh?

I never said that trackman numbers have any relation to tour performance. But I think that if you are one of the longer hitters with trackman, you would also be one of the longer hitters on tour.



Rory is not one of the "longest hitters on tour" with his irons.

And you said Rory is not one of the longest hitters with his irons. How many people today hit a shorter club on #8 than Rory’s 3 iron? I didn’t see anyone with a 4 or 5 iron.

[BrianL99]

I never said that trackman numbers have any relation to tour performance. But I think that if you are one of the longer hitters with trackman, you would also be one of the longer hitters on tour.

That would be inaccurate conclusion, based in dissimilar and anecdotal information .... and 2 incongruous sentences.



And you said Rory is not one of the longest hitters with his irons. How many people today hit a shorter club on #8 than Rory’s 3 iron? I didn’t see anyone with a 4 or 5 iron.

I'm sorry, but I hate to be misquoted.

I said

Rory is not one of the "longest hitters on tour" with his irons. He's in the upper-middle of the pack with irons ... by design.



That's what the statistics show. ON TOUR Rory isn't typically one of the "longest hitters on Tour with his irons". Could he be if he felt that was important? Probably.



How many people today hit a shorter club on #8 than Rory’s 3 iron? I didn’t see anyone with a 4 or 5 iron.

You should have watched more closely.


The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

The average PGA drive of 300 yards is accomplished with a DRIVER. Many PGA pros can't hit 300 yards with anything but a Driver or 3-Wood, if they can reach 300 hards at all.

The premise of the original post, was that the 8th hole was "too long" for many PGA Tour Players.

Players were hitting irons on that hole. I'm sure a couple of guys hit Drivers, but that was rare. There are no players on the PGA Tour that can't reach a 300 yard Par 3 and most of them don't need a Driver to do it.

Entering the 4th round, it is the third hardest hole.

The average score is 3.480.

There have been 11 birdies,
198 pars, 149 bogeys, 21 double bogeys, and 1 other.

Not a fair conclusion. 15 other holes averaged lower "in relation to par".

"Par" is an arbitrary number, that doesn't really mean anything, nor is it a characterization of how difficult a hole is.

There's no real way to quantify "hardest", because there's no way to quantify a player's intentions. Players weren't playing #8, with the intention of making "birdie", they were playing it with the intention of not make bogey or double-bogey. Changes the dynamic.

The hardest holes (through 3 rounds), were likely, the 3rd, 9th or 15th. Those holes had the most double-bogeys or higher, score.

[kcrazorbackfan]

The 8th hole at Oakmont will once again play as the longest Par 3 in U.S. Open history, coming in at 290+ yards. It was 300 yards the last time the Open was played there.

I don’t think every pro golfer can hit it 290 yards. In 2021, the average drive was 295.30 yards.

Is this unfair to the shorter drivers??

It made the tournament interesting, along with the rough and the rain.