Citizens First Bank being sold

[Rainger99]

Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn

[bsloan1960]

For about $700 Million if I read correctly. I'm curious what is behind this decision. I would think that owning a bank would provide substantial profits... forever.Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn

[CFrance]

Maybe they aren't doing "enough" business to suit the developers due to the downturn in housing?
I wonder if Seacoast will offer a broader range of house financing than Citizen's First does.

[dewilson58]

For about $700 Million if I read correctly. I'm curious what is behind this decision. I would think that owning a bank would provide substantial profits... forever.

No surprise...............The Villages is a land developer......They DEVELOP.

Land developers are not interested in banking, newpapers, radio stations, water treatment facilities, local government, etc., etc., etc.

:oops:

[manaboutown]

As I understand it when the father-son Schwartz-Morse team started out local appraisers and banks would not value the homes or grant adequate mortgages on them based on the relatively high prices at which homes were to be sold. To solve this problem they started their own bank.

[Ruger2506]

No big deal. I never liked Citizens First to begin with. They don't offer the best services.

[JohnN]

Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn

But, you can likely score a good deal on a used popcorn machine

[gego3650]

Amazes me the nonsense that get posted, Like Costco moving here from 15yrs ago and also Trader Joes rumors that also went on for years.

[Arctic Fox]

Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn

Hopefully they'll offer a credit card

[Aces4]

Amazes me the nonsense that get posted, Like Costco moving here from 15yrs ago and also Trader Joes rumors that also went on for years.

Are you suggesting the newspaper is printing false information?:1rotfl:

[asianthree]

No worries for us only keep few thousand, in check account for local businesses. So far behind in modern technology for bill pay, statements, not worth anything else

[MarshBendLover]

May not have anything to do with financial loss or worth. For the right price, everything is for sale.

I love my wife, wouldn't take a million dollars for just one night. But...if the price is right

[CFrance]

No worries for us only keep few thousand, in check account for local businesses. So far behind in modern technology for bill pay, statements, not worth anything else
We have $46 in ours!

[Ruger2506]

No worries for us only keep few thousand, in check account for local businesses. So far behind in modern technology for bill pay, statements, not worth anything else
I keep the required $100 in my Citizens Savings and $250 max in my Citizens Checking. The return they offer is embarrassing and insulting.

[Topspinmo]

All banks are looking to fleece customers anyway. I’ve never had problem with citizens hopefully that will continue with whomever the new shysters are…..

[ElDiabloJoe]

I opened an account a few months ago with the minimum to keep the account both open and free of fees. $25.

The young man (Banker, not Teller.) sitting at the New Accounts desk could not be more preoccupied with B.S.-ing with his desk mate, slower than molasses at moving my paperwork around, or better at asking personal and semi-offensive questions of which I had zero intention of answering. Lake Sumpter Landing branch for what it is worth.

I'm gonna go out on a ledge and say he is probably one of the ones whose position is considered "duplicative" and will be consolidated aka terminated. No loss.

Maybe it's a generational thing and his "personal and emotional state" were more important than hustling at his job. Maybe. Who's the guy on here with the signature that says, "Pogo was right?" Yep, he was. We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.

[dewilson58]

Agree with a3..............been thru a number of "mergers" and it's a nothing burger.

:gc:

[spd2918]

I've had nothing but excellent service there.

[HIgolfers]

I've had nothing but excellent service there.

Agreed. I have a checking account there and love the free checks they provide me because I’m a veteran. Plus their interest rate is significantly higher than the paltry amount I get from my USAA account that I have had for 45 years!

[tophcfa]

No surprise...............The Villages is a land developer......They DEVELOP.

Land developers are not interested in banking, newpapers, radio stations, water treatment facilities, local government, etc., etc., etc.

:oops:

Controlling the narrative (newspaper and radio) and getting favorable regulatory treatment (local government) has seemed to work very well for a certain developer.

[JoelJohnson]

Up north we started out with Bank of New England, until it was bought by Bank of America. That was like 40 or 50 years ago, still have BOA.

[retiredguy123]

A bank is good for a checking account and a credit card. For investing, use Fidelity or Vanguard.

[barbnick]

Send a picture

[MikePgh]

For about $700 Million if I read correctly. I'm curious what is behind this decision. I would think that owning a bank would provide substantial profits... forever.

Ever increasing regulations and tight net interest margins cut into profits like you would not believe.

[JRcorvette]

Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn

Although we bank with Citizens mostly for bill pay we don’t keep a lot of money there because the pay very very low rates less than 1%. Mid Florida CU is right Nextdoor and pays 3% on savings

[mrf6969]

We use Citizens and have for over 20 years. They are good for convenience as they have branches everywhere. Only have checking with them as a vehicle for some online bill pay. We keep a very low amount in there as online banks are paying 4%.

[Rodneysblue]

Amazes me the nonsense that get posted, Like Costco moving here from 15yrs ago and also Trader Joes rumors that also went on for years.

Wait did you say Trader Joe’s is moving here? 😆😆😆

[Cassieb]

Never used Citizens.

[Normal]

Seacoast has bought a beached whale. Getting it back out into the ocean and having it survive will be a chore. More than half the mortgages they will acquire are lower than 2.5%. The housing market is at a major correction point and the demographic makeup of the Villages doesn’t matter after 250,000 in assets per villager household because of FDIC caps.

[JanRoberts]

Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn

Wrong! They will!

[dewilson58]

Seacoast has bought a beached whale. Getting it back out into the ocean and having it survive will be a chore. More than half the mortgages they will acquire are lower than 2.5%. The housing market is at a major correction point and the demographic makeup of the Villages doesn’t matter after 250,000 in assets per villager household because of FDIC caps.

IF true, it's factored into the price..........easy math.

[dewilson58]

This is only the beginning. The Villages will be sold next. If you think the current developer is greedy wait until a large for profit corporation takes over. You will see many more apartments going up, no or at least much less music at the squares, amenities will lessen and taxes will rise.

:what:

The Villages is a for-profit corp.

The Villages does not pay for music.

Amenities are built & sold by The Villages at a profit....why make less.

Taxes rise now.

:shrug:

[BillyGrown]

IF true, it's factored into the price..........easy math.

Not as bad as national figures I suppose that place subprimes at above 90%
Sub prime borrowers have little interest in paying anything off early….EASY Math…lol.
Their money earns more invested in money markets

[justjim]

Perhaps property of the villages got a good price for their banks and like most of us occasionally do with property for the same reason, just let it happen. A neighbor suggested that maybe they needed the money. I don’t think that was it and just believe it was a good business deal. For what it’s worth, I did check a few times Citizens best mortgage rates and found their 15 and 30 year interest rates above others. We have no “skin in the game” as we bank with Truist and Chase.

A few years ago, our bank up north was sold to another community bank and we had to do some “work” to get our bills being paid out of our account because the new bank gave us a new account number. We were not pleased with the new banks service and they soon lost a good customer.

[dewilson58]

Not as bad as national figures I suppose that place subprimes at above 90%
Sub prime borrowers have little interest in paying anything off early….EASY Math…lol.
Their money earns more invested in money markets

It is easy math...........buy knows their targeted ROI, they know the effective yield on the banks assets, they know the banks cost of money, the buyer adjusts its purchase price for the bank. Very easy.

:024:

[Bill14564]

:what:

The Villages is a for-profit corp.

The Villages does not for music.

Amenities are built & sold by The Villages at a profit....why make less.

Taxes rise now.

:shrug:

Who does pay for music? I thought it was Villages Entertainment which was owned by the Villages (or a subsidiary or a licensed entity or …). Is that not the case?

[Aces4]

This is only the beginning. The Villages will be sold next. If you think the current developer is greedy wait until a large for profit corporation takes over. You will see many more apartments going up, no or at least much less music at the squares, amenities will lessen and taxes will rise.

Whoa, take it easy there.. your enthusiasm to trash the current developers is impressive. But did it ever occur to you that your crystal ball may be cracked?

[Laker]

Seacoast has bought a beached whale. Getting it back out into the ocean and having it survive will be a chore. More than half the mortgages they will acquire are lower than 2.5%. The housing market is at a major correction point and the demographic makeup of the Villages doesn’t matter after 250,000 in assets per villager household because of FDIC caps.

Wow, if I had known you could get $750 Million for a beached whale I would have bought one a long time ago. Thanks for the tip!

[Aces4]

Seacoast has bought a beached whale. Getting it back out into the ocean and having it survive will be a chore. More than half the mortgages they will acquire are lower than 2.5%. The housing market is at a major correction point and the demographic makeup of the Villages doesn’t matter after 250,000 in assets per villager household because of FDIC caps.

It does have the appearance of a beached whale. New generation banks are a fraction of the size of older banking institutions. The younger generation will primarily bank online and have little use for the brick and mortars. And as much as I hate to admit it, all those over 55 years old aren't really aren't all that long for this world and when banks are looking at the whole picture all this is taken into consideration. Twenty years go by in a hurry. I shouldn't forget what the future of AI will do to the banking process, it will be a whole new world.

[dewilson58]

Who does pay for music? I thought it was Villages Entertainment which was owned by the Villages (or a subsidiary or a licensed entity or …). Is that not the case?

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/who-pays-entertainment-squares-286568/

[Bill14564]

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/who-pays-entertainment-squares-286568/

Doesn’t seem to answer the question.

One assertion is amenity fees and another is the businesses at the squares through their respective commercial CDDs. However, none of those budgets contain expense lines for entertainment.

If “paid by the businesses in the squares” means paid from their rents then that goes back to the Villages/Developer paying since he collects the rents.

Sure, ultimately we pay as members of the the audience, but that doesn’t appear to be through amenity fees, maintenance fees, or county taxes.

[FredMitchell]

Villages Bancorporation, Inc., the holding company that owns Citizens First is not a public company. As far as I can tell, there are no public financial filings to inspect. (If anybody can find some, please post a link to them.)

There is no reason that I have been able to find that anyone should think that they have any significant mortgage portfolio, much less one that has an average rate of 2.5% - such a portfolio is unlikely to exist in the US!

It is also very unlikely since the late 90's that any banks hold significant mortgage portfolios. That strategy of banks owning mortgages is what led to the Savings and Loan Crisis of the 80's and 90's. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis) I know that will be too long for most of you to read and will not be of interest to most anyone without a background in finance. But it was a busy time for investment bankers and financial regulators. For a read that is more fun, but much less educational, see Liar's Poker, by Michael Lewis.

It makes zero financial sense for depositary instutions, who have liabilities of 30 days, to hold assets with maturities of 5-30 years. The only major investors in home mortgages are life insurance companies and pension funds - who do have long term liabilities that need to be funded with long term assets.

[RUCdaze]

DEWILSON58, et al.: The developer is also not interested in movie theaters.

[Herscheleen]

:posting:Amazes me the nonsense that get posted, Like Costco moving here from 15yrs ago and also Trader Joes rumors that also went on for years.

[jimkerr]

Villages Bancorporation, Inc., the holding company that owns Citizens First is not a public company. As far as I can tell, there are no public financial filings to inspect. (If anybody can find some, please post a link to them.)

There is no reason that I have been able to find that anyone should think that they have any significant mortgage portfolio, much less one that has an average rate of 2.5% - such a portfolio is unlikely to exist in the US!

It is also very unlikely since the late 90's that any banks hold significant mortgage portfolios. That strategy of banks owning mortgages is what led to the Savings and Loan Crisis of the 80's and 90's. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis) I know that will be too long for most of you to read and will not be of interest to most anyone without a background in finance. But it was a busy time for investment bankers and financial regulators. For a read that is more fun, but much less educational, see Liar's Poker, by Michael Lewis.

It makes zero financial sense for depositary instutions, who have liabilities of 30 days, to hold assets with maturities of 5-30 years. The only major investors in home mortgages are life insurance companies and pension funds - who do have long term liabilities that need to be funded with long term assets.

They do hold a significant amount of mortgages. We got one from them several years ago and unlike other banks, they never sold it to another mortgage company.

[CFrance]

They do hold a significant amount of mortgages. We got one from them several years ago and unlike other banks, they never sold it to another mortgage company.
They have now!

[hdanielblank]

Citizens First Bank is apparently being bought by Seacoast Banking Corporation of Florida.

I expect that the new bank will not be offering the free popcorn
We were just discussing that exact thing this morning. It will probably take some time before we realize all the effects of this. I also wonder why TV decided to sell their highly profitable bank at this time but speculation is nonproductive. Hopefully, nothing good will be changed and we'll have branches we can use when we amble westward. Time will tell.

[thelegges]

We were just discussing that exact thing this morning. It will probably take some time before we realize all the effects of this. I also wonder why TV decided to sell their highly profitable bank at this time but speculation is nonproductive. Hopefully, nothing good will be changed and we'll have branches we can use when we amble westward. Time will tell.

Was it highly profitable, or the perfect tool to get a mortgage approval? That another bank wouldn’t have appraised the same $$$ amount. Only those who pitted Citizens with their home bank can answer that specific question.

Four houses, two with Citizens because it was easier. One house with our home bank, who appraise house $5,000 less, and Citizens made our closing hell on the highest level. Last with mortgage broker, house also appraised for less than Citizens.

[Plinker]

Is it possible that this is the beginning of an exit strategy? Perhaps the younger generations of the Morse family are not interested in taking the reins from the older Morse members that may be approaching retirement age. Jennifer Parr recently purchased a $20 million dollar property which could be her future retirement home. Continuing to expand TV footprint (think Sasquatch) may be more of a headache than it’s worth. Sure, TV developers are reaping very substantial profits but it requires a tremendous amount of work. The assets of TV must be worth billions. Imagine what that kind of money would throw off every year without any headaches.
Obviously, on a much smaller scale, is that not what many of us did in order to retire?

[FredMitchell]

They do hold a significant amount of mortgages. We got one from them several years ago and unlike other banks, they never sold it to another mortgage company.

What makes you think they never sold the mortgage?

Most likely, because you still send them the mortgage payment. That just means that they are still servicing the mortgage. They provide that service on behalf of the investor, charging a small percentage and remitting the rest of the payment to the current owner of the mortgage.

Servicing is a source of income for mortgage bankers. They get income without the risk of having to pay higher interest for funds than the mortgage pays. They do that by reselling the mortgage or packaging it into a mortgage security and selling the security.

[Lisanp@aol.com]

I'm slightly concerned about what my crystal ball is telling me...
First they get out of the restaurant business (Fenny, McGradys, Show kitchen, etc)
Then the Movie Theater Business
Then they sell The Villages Insurance off
Hometown Property Management - sold!
Now Citizens
I believe they sold The Daily Sun too?
Next I'm sure Peninsula
Villages Golf Cars?
Is anyone else paying attention?
What are these moves saying about the family's future plans?

[Lisanp@aol.com]

It's not only the appraisal that's an issue. I had three other banks with much lower interest rates quoted for us, but they can't figure out how to close the loans on The Villages aggressive timelines. You can't appraise a house that doesn't have a CofO and The Villages wants the closing to be the day after they are done constructing it. So, we are stuck using Citizens or pay the astronomical daily fee for delaying the close to get a "standard" bank to complete the underwriting process and get a clear to close on the loan.
This change in ownership is going to be interesting to watch.

[Bill14564]

I'm slightly concerned about what my crystal ball is telling me...
First they get out of the restaurant business (Fenny, McGradys, Show kitchen, etc)
Then the Movie Theater Business
Then they sell The Villages Insurance off
Hometown Property Management - sold!
Now Citizens
I believe they sold The Daily Sun too?
Next I'm sure Peninsula
Villages Golf Cars?
Is anyone else paying attention?
What are these moves saying about the family's future plans?

The moves are interesting but they *might* be saying that family is most interested in running a development business. The ancillary businesses probably made a lot of sense when the Villages was small and the size of the business was manageable. With the Villages growing, some of the businesses needing rejuvenation, and others just growing large, they may be finding that the additional effort is going into them is not worth the benefit coming out.

I don't see this as something to really worry about. It was nice having three theaters around even if you didn't go to any of them. It was nice having a bank tightly coupled with the practices of the primary developer in the area. It was nice having "the Villages Insurance" even though they were simply brokers. Selling these won't necessarily change anything. The theaters that are still open will still show films, the bank under new ownership will still find it necessary to work closely with the developer, and the insurance brokers will still sell insurance. And in all of these, the Developer will still own the building and will still make money off the businesses. Sure there will be change but it might not be significant.

[Aces4]

I'm slightly concerned about what my crystal ball is telling me...
First they get out of the restaurant business (Fenny, McGradys, Show kitchen, etc)
Then the Movie Theater Business
Then they sell The Villages Insurance off
Hometown Property Management - sold!
Now Citizens
I believe they sold The Daily Sun too?
Next I'm sure Peninsula
Villages Golf Cars?
Is anyone else paying attention?
What are these moves saying about the family's future plans?

With all those irons in the fire, my guess would be they provided all the necessary attractions to draw people into a thriving community. I don't think it was ever their intent to continue to provide all those different services. As said in the previous post, they are developers.

[thelegges]

I'm slightly concerned about what my crystal ball is telling me...
First they get out of the restaurant business (Fenny, McGradys, Show kitchen, etc)
Then the Movie Theater Business
Then they sell The Villages Insurance off
Hometown Property Management - sold!
Now Citizens
I believe they sold The Daily Sun too?
Next I'm sure Peninsula
Villages Golf Cars?
Is anyone else paying attention?
What are these moves saying about the family's future plans?

Since the beginning developers eventually rented out established restaurants, with an active clientele. 15 plus years of track records.

Theater have been closed and never opened after pandemic because 10 movies are no longer released every month. Everyone stream on giant screens at home

Insurance has been owned by Baldwin group for close to 10 years, name change came later. (Who in their right mind want to broker insurance in Florida)

In the beginning Home town was used for lifestyle visits, rent residential homes. Once the developers built sections just for lifestyle, it didn’t make sense to continue Hometown.

Daily Sun I believe was sold, then brought back into the fold, probably because it wasn’t highlighting developers correctly.

Peninsula hasn’t been the only game in town for awhile, mainly too many closings for Peninsula to handle.

What is it saying about developers, they are in business to maximize their profits, adding Manufacturing and other business ventures. Am I worried probably not, I don’t think I will outlive the future generations of The Family

[BillyGrown]

Is it possible that this is the beginning of an exit strategy? Perhaps the younger generations of the Morse family are not interested in taking the reins from the older Morse members that may be approaching retirement age. Jennifer Parr recently purchased a $20 million dollar property which could be her future retirement home. Continuing to expand TV footprint (think Sasquatch) may be more of a headache than it’s worth. Sure, TV developers are reaping very substantial profits but it requires a tremendous amount of work. The assets of TV must be worth billions. Imagine what that kind of money would throw off every year without any headaches.
Obviously, on a much smaller scale, is that not what many of us did in order to retire?

Just a realignment for Kelsea to take over.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Just a realignment for Kelsea to take over.

Interesting read, what with the bagoogle machine turned up when she was searched. Quite the web of holding corporations:
https://www.atlantafed.org/-/media/documents/FRY6Docs/2020/VILLAGES_BC_2012315_2020.pdf

[mrf6969]

I'm slightly concerned about what my crystal ball is telling me...
First they get out of the restaurant business (Fenny, McGradys, Show kitchen, etc)
Then the Movie Theater Business
Then they sell The Villages Insurance off
Hometown Property Management - sold!
Now Citizens
I believe they sold The Daily Sun too?
Next I'm sure Peninsula
Villages Golf Cars?
Is anyone else paying attention?
What are these moves saying about the family's future plans?

Golf cart stores were sold years ago.

[BillyGrown]

Golf cart stores were sold years ago.

I can’t think of a better time to liquidate. Nothing in the Florida real estate market is appetizing.