New Variable Speed A/C units.

[dewilson58]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

[retiredguy123]

There was another poster on this website who had been waiting 4 months for a replacement part for his fancy variable speed compressor.

The builder installs single stage compressors. That is what I have and my house is cool and quiet. If it fails, I am confident that Munn's can repair it in a day. To me, readily available parts are important.

[Normal]

There was another poster on this website who had been waiting 4 months for a replacement part for his fancy variable speed compressor.

The builder installs single stage compressors. That is what I have and my house is cool and quiet. If it fails, I am confident that Munn's can repair it in a day. To me, readily available parts are important.

Yes, and some are struggling to even get those parts when they have become more expensive because of tariffs and are more difficult to obtain.

[jrref]

The issue of getting parts for the newer variable speed units is something that's passed. Early on this was a problem but these days Variable speed units are common place. If you purchase a new home from the builder a varible speed unit is an option you can get. Many are now being installed because they are the most efficient, give you the best comfort and qualify for federal tax credits. That said, always go with a company who is certified with a specific manufacturer. For example, Sunshine is an authorized Carrier dealer who is large enough to stock parts and has trained staff and the equipment for all these newer systems where as a small company installer who might not have the resources to install and service these newer systems will most likely convince you to get another single stage heat pump because they are the cheapest and the easiest to work on but they will be the least efficient and cost you more money to run them in the long term. Don't be afraid of newer technology since at some point it will be common place. Who ever thought years ago we would have so many computers running our cars? If we didn't advance in auto technology we would still be driving 1965 Chevies that were simple and easy to fix but costly to operate in today's world. Same thing with most technologies.

[retiredguy123]

The issue of getting parts for the newer variable speed units is something that's passed. Early on this was a problem but these days Variable speed units are common place. If you purchase a new home from the builder a varible speed unit is an option you can get. Many are now being installed because they are the most efficient, give you the best comfort and qualify for federal tax credits. That said, always go with a company who is certified with a specific manufacturer. For example, Sunshine is an authorized Carrier dealer who is large enough to stock parts and has trained staff and the equipment for all these newer systems where as a small company installer who might not have the resources to install and service these newer systems will most likely convince you to get another single stage heat pump because they are the cheapest and the easiest to work on but they will be the least efficient and cost you more money to run them in the long term. Don't be afraid of newer technology since at some point it will be common place. Who ever thought years ago we would have so many computers running our cars? If we didn't advance in auto technology we would still be driving 1965 Chevies that were simple and easy to fix but costly to operate in today's world. Same thing with most technologies.
I would point out that single stage compressor units will also qualify for the Federal tax credits, based on the SEER rating. A variable speed system will cost about 50 to 70 percent more than a single stage system. You will never recover that initial cost with electricity savings. As far as availability of parts, I think that there are so many Carrier single stage units in The Villages, that a large Carrier dealer can probably get the needed parts without even needing to order them. The poster who was waiting for 4 months needed a proprietary circuit board for a specific variable speed compressor. I doubt that any dealer would keep something like that in stock.

One other thing. When your house needs to be cooled, do you really want the compressor to run slower? Other than a possible humidity benefit, I want the compressor to run at full speed and cool down my house. Also, a variable speed compressor is only more efficient if it is programmed correctly, and serviced periodically.

[jrref]

I would point out that single stage compressor units will also qualify for the Federal tax credits, based on the SEER rating. A variable speed system will cost about 50 to 70 percent more than a single stage system. You will never recover that initial cost with electricity savings. As far as availability of parts, I think that there are so many Carrier single stage units in The Villages, that a large Carrier dealer can probably get the needed parts without even needing to order them. The poster who was waiting for 4 months needed a proprietary circuit board for a specific variable speed compressor. I doubt that any dealer would keep something like that in stock.

One other thing. When your house needs to be cooled, do you really want the compressor to run slower? Other than a possible humidity benefit, I want the compressor to run at full speed and cool down my house. Also, a variable speed compressor is only more efficient if it is programmed correctly, and serviced periodically.

Variable speed systems get a significant tax credit compared to any other system because single or multi-stage systems don't come close in efficiency. As far as keeping parts in stock, variable speed systems are so common place now that companies have to stock them. I know many like "simple" and that's fine but do some research on variable speed systems and you will see why they are better for both cooling and heating. They save a lot of money when we do need heat here in the Villages since the newer systems generate heat efficiently all the way down to 0 degrees and some even lower so at 30-40 degrees they are very efficient compared to what the builder gave us. Simple is a single stage unit no arguement. Multi stage is a nightmare and I wouldn't get one of those. Variable is relatively simple inverter technology that is pretty main stream these days and the cost will come down more over time as it already has.

[jrref]

There was another poster on this website who had been waiting 4 months for a replacement part for his fancy variable speed compressor.

The builder installs single stage compressors. That is what I have and my house is cool and quiet. If it fails, I am confident that Munn's can repair it in a day. To me, readily available parts are important.

You realize those mini split systems that everyone is installing are variable speed units with many of the same "fancy" parts. It's just variable speed main heatpumps are somewhat new and many don't understand the technology.

Those mini split systems initially had a lot of that "fancy" circuit board failures related to power surges. Now everyone comes with a surge protector to fix that issue. Same with newer variable speed heat pumps.

[retiredguy123]

You realize those mini split systems that everyone is installing are variable speed units with many of the same "fancy" parts. It's just variable speed main heatpumps are somewhat new and many don't understand the technology.

Those mini split systems initially had a lot of that "fancy" circuit board failures related to power surges. Now everyone comes with a surge protector to fix that issue. Same with newer variable speed heat pumps.
This was not a mini-split unit.

[retiredguy123]

Variable speed systems get a significant tax credit compared to any other system because single or multi-stage systems don't come close in efficiency. As far as keeping parts in stock, variable speed systems are so common place now that companies have to stock them. I know many like "simple" and that's fine but do some research on variable speed systems and you will see why they are better for both cooling and heating. They save a lot of money when we do need heat here in the Villages since the newer systems generate heat efficiently all the way down to 0 degrees and some even lower so at 30-40 degrees they are very efficient compared to what the builder gave us. Simple is a single stage unit no arguement. Multi stage is a nightmare and I wouldn't get one of those. Variable is relatively simple inverter technology that is pretty main stream these days and the cost will come down more over time as it already has.
Are you saying that you get a different tax credit for a variable speed heat pump than for a single stage heat pump? I am not an expert on Federal tax credits, but it looks like you get a credit for 30 percent of the cost for either system as long as you have the proper SEER rating.

[jrref]

Are you saying that you get a different tax credit for a variable speed heat pump than for a single stage heat pump? I am not an expert on Federal tax credits, but it looks like you get a credit for 30 percent of the cost for either system as long as you have the proper SEER rating.

Yes you can get 30% up to $2,000 for a heat pump if it qualifies. The variable speed inverter systems we are talking about are the most efficient and are Energy Star and qualify. I'm not sure if a single stage carrier replacement system for example, will qualify. You will need to consult the company that provides it. Some multi-stage heat pumps may qualify as well. Sorry for the confusion but these credits are a little new to me as well.

I did find this:
Single-stage heat pumps are not eligible for the energy credit under the current tax code. The eligibility for the tax credit is based on the efficiency tier of the heat pump, and only those that meet or exceed the highest efficiency tier established by the Consortium for Energy Efficiency are eligible. Therefore, single-stage heat pumps that do not meet these efficiency standards will not qualify for the energy credit
<<<<

[retiredguy123]

Yes you can get 30% up to $2,000 for a heat pump if it qualifies. The variable speed inverter systems we are talking about are the most efficient and are Energy Star and qualify. I'm not sure if a single stage carrier replacement system for example, will qualify. You will need to consult the company that provides it. Some multi-stage heat pumps may qualify as well. Sorry for the confusion but these credits are a little new to me as well.

I did find this:
Single-stage heat pumps are not eligible for the energy credit under the current tax code. The eligibility for the tax credit is based on the efficiency tier of the heat pump, and only those that meet or exceed the highest efficiency tier established by the Consortium for Energy Efficiency are eligible. Therefore, single-stage heat pumps that do not meet these efficiency standards will not qualify for the energy credit
<<<<
If you want the tax credit, you can buy a single stage system that meets the SEER rating needed to qualify. The compressor has very little to do with it. The surface area of the metal fins in the condenser unit are the primary factor that determines the SEER. High SEER units are larger than lower SEER units.

[Happydaz]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

Upgraded 2 years ago to a Carrier variable speed heat pump. I went from a one speed (100% or off. They call this a two speed unit, but one of the speeds is OFF!) to a 75 speed heat pump. (25% to 100% in 1% increments) The new unit qualified for a $2000 tax credit. We are saving between $30-$35 a month in electricity. On a purely monetary method it would be many years to pay off the difference in the purchase cost between the two units, but it is much, much quieter. The prior unit was outside our bedroom and we would hear it bang and boom all night. The new one we can’t hear most of the time. Since it can operate at lower speeds it is not just quieter but is also much more efficient in dehumidifying the house. The fact that it can operate at such low speeds means it also is quietly running for longer time intervals. This doesn’t add to the electricity cost as I’ve already said it saves us money each month. Since it runs longer the air temperature is more even throughout the house whether it is cooling or heating. No more hot or cold spots. My wife’s sewing room is no longer hot and our glassed in lanai stays near the house temperature. (Sliders open) We rarely turn the mini split on anymore. As you can tell, we love our new unit. I did get a 15 year warranty with it. Let’s see I’ll be 91 when that runs out!

[Topspinmo]

My new carrier unit full of Chinese parts… probably like all rest of brands? So we just have to suffer for while…

[kkingston57]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

Have variable speed fan. Personally feel that it is just another gimmick.

[jrref]

I just signed up for a Carrier Infinity system, 4 ton, 22 SEER. This system is a little newer and has 80 speed increments. With all the instant rebates from Carrier and Sunshine plus the $2,000 Federal Tax credit the price was reduced by $4,500 and the total cost included 10 year full parts and labor. I could have got the 15 year parts and labor as well. I figure 10 - 15 years from now there will be even newer technology and I can decide to upgrade again. The included labor is important since this system is more complex to get you the efficiency and everything is covered so nothing to worry about. If the compressor goes bad in the 10 year period Carrier gives you a new outdoor condensor unit vs repairing it. They also include the surge protector for the system which is critical in preventing all the failures these systems had in the past. The same was true for the mini splits that everyone is installing. All in writing. With all the discounts the cost of the variable speed unit was very close to the single and 2 stage system where it didn't make sense to go with any of those. Also, checked, and no parts issues anymore with the new variable speed units. Parts are in stock just like with the older systems. And you are right because its a variable speed inverter system no start capacitor to fail every 5 years or so. To get this kind of deal you will have to probably go with a larger HVAC company since the smaller companies may not have the capability to service these variable speed units yet. There are a huge amount of benefits to variable speed systems meaning variable fan and compressor. Significant electric savings. Not enough to recoup the cost but enough to lessen your overall load each month. Very even temperature throughout the home. Very controlled humidity. Since the system stays on longer your air is properly filtered so if you have allergies like I do that will help a lot. Super quiet as well. As far as it running at 100% to cool down your home quickly, it will do that since it runs to keep the temperature constant at whatever speed it needs after learning the specifics of your home. Think of it as instead of having a system that runs like a light switch, On then Off then On and Off again, this system based on the inside and outside temperature and humidity and how long it take to decrease and or increase the temperature based on your specific home will smoothly run at whatever speed it needs to keep the temperature and humidity constant. Another plus is whenever we need heat in the winter. Since the unit is designed to give heat down to I believe -12 degrees F, here in Florida when we get 25 to 35 degree weather for however long these systems are very efficient and the cost to heat your home if you need it will be dramatically less than with the systems that we have now which may turn On the auxillary heat if the heat pump can't keep up. That's 40Amps of power to run the auxillary heat. Not cheap. So at the end of the day, if you can time it to get all the rebates and tax credits for a little more money you can get a variable speed system and enjoy electricity savings and a more comfortable home.

[MandoMan]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

I had one installed two years ago: a Daikin. In the garage it is the same size as what I had. Outside, it is only a third the size of the original unit.

In the house, it is very quiet and comfortable. The only noise is the sound of air coming out of the grates. In the garage, it is almost silent when working. Outside, the condenser unit is so quiet that I can whisper next to it while it’s working and be heard. If your old heat pump interfered with your outdoor entertainment, this is what you want.

A year after I got it, it stopped cooling. Turned out the Freon was low because of a leak in a valve in the evaporation unit in the garage. It seems it came that way. Rather than try to fix it, the company replaced the entire evaporation unit with its connectors. Took an hour.

These cost a lot more than the lowest cost units that come with our homes. (It’s not the highest efficiency model. That costs even more.) I doubt that it will ever pay for itself except in the pleasure of less noise and more comfort. I’d guess that this saves perhaps 15% of my total electric bill, but that runs between $100 a month and $150, depending on the season, and probably $50 of that is refrigerator, hot water, and electrical use.

[dolphin]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

Yes, yes

[RoseyRed]

Curious to know the square footage of your home and the price of the variable speed unit. Can you share?

Upgraded 2 years ago to a Carrier variable speed heat pump. I went from a one speed (100% or off. They call this a two speed unit, but one of the speeds is OFF!) to a 75 speed heat pump. (25% to 100% in 1% increments) The new unit qualified for a $2000 tax credit. We are saving between $30-$35 a month in electricity. On a purely monetary method it would be many years to pay off the difference in the purchase cost between the two units, but it is much, much quieter. The prior unit was outside our bedroom and we would hear it bang and boom all night. The new one we can’t hear most of the time. Since it can operate at lower speeds it is not just quieter but is also much more efficient in dehumidifying the house. The fact that it can operate at such low speeds means it also is quietly running for longer time intervals. This doesn’t add to the electricity cost as I’ve already said it saves us money each month. Since it runs longer the air temperature is more even throughout the house whether it is cooling or heating. No more hot or cold spots. My wife’s sewing room is no longer hot and our glassed in lanai stays near the house temperature. (Sliders open) We rarely turn the mini split on anymore. As you can tell, we love our new unit. I did get a 15 year warranty with it. Let’s see I’ll be 91 when that runs out!

[gorillarick]

I had a high-end unit with variable fan speed in my unit just before I moved here. Fan outside failed, independent tech said you want to spend $1200 to replace that unit, or $350 for a fixed speed unit. 20 years old, it was a no brainer.

He told me the controls (like circuit boards) for these units are much many times more expensive also.
Replaced my TV unit last September. I opted for the highest rated (SEER) single stage, fixed speed unit. Got rebate; but not as much as a higher SEER.

Salesman started by pitching the high SEER units. Smiled when I asked if it would ever pay for itself, and came back to Earth.

[barbnick]

You must be a distributor of variable speed systems

[Rocksnap]

Staying in a house with a single speed system is the exact reason WHY I UPGRADED TO A VARIABLE SPEED SYSTEM.
I hated the single speed room gets hot, room gets cold, and unit was very humid.
Variable is the way to go, for comfort alone. All the other benefits are icing on the cake.

[retiredguy123]

A variable speed system will cost more money initially and to maintain, and you will never recover the extra cost. It will not significantly improve the comfort or quietness of your house or the resale value. But, it will make the HVAC companies more profitable.

[HJBeck]

Yes we did. Our electric bills are normally $80 to $100 per month. Bought a Carrier with SEER of 19, variable speed. But highly recommend you require 10 to 12 year warranty (parts & labor). Munn’s was the only one to agree to this. It has much more complicated electronics, and substantially quieter due to the variable speed nature. Pay back for us is ~5years.

[Sledneck]

I just signed up for a Carrier Infinity system, 4 ton, 22 SEER. This system is a little newer and has 80 speed increments. With all the instant rebates from Carrier and Sunshine plus the $2,000 Federal Tax credit the price was reduced by $4,500 and the total cost included 10 year full parts and labor. I could have got the 15 year parts and labor as well. I figure 10 - 15 years from now there will be even newer technology and I can decide to upgrade again. The included labor is important since this system is more complex to get you the efficiency and everything is covered so nothing to worry about. If the compressor goes bad in the 10 year period Carrier gives you a new outdoor condensor unit vs repairing it. They also include the surge protector for the system which is critical in preventing all the failures these systems had in the past. The same was true for the mini splits that everyone is installing. All in writing. With all the discounts the cost of the variable speed unit was very close to the single and 2 stage system where it didn't make sense to go with any of those. Also, checked, and no parts issues anymore with the new variable speed units. Parts are in stock just like with the older systems. And you are right because its a variable speed inverter system no start capacitor to fail every 5 years or so. To get this kind of deal you will have to probably go with a larger HVAC company since the smaller companies may not have the capability to service these variable speed units yet. There are a huge amount of benefits to variable speed systems meaning variable fan and compressor. Significant electric savings. Not enough to recoup the cost but enough to lessen your overall load each month. Very even temperature throughout the home. Very controlled humidity. Since the system stays on longer your air is properly filtered so if you have allergies like I do that will help a lot. Super quiet as well. As far as it running at 100% to cool down your home quickly, it will do that since it runs to keep the temperature constant at whatever speed it needs after learning the specifics of your home. Think of it as instead of having a system that runs like a light switch, On then Off then On and Off again, this system based on the inside and outside temperature and humidity and how long it take to decrease and or increase the temperature based on your specific home will smoothly run at whatever speed it needs to keep the temperature and humidity constant. Another plus is whenever we need heat in the winter. Since the unit is designed to give heat down to I believe -12 degrees F, here in Florida when we get 25 to 35 degree weather for however long these systems are very efficient and the cost to heat your home if you need it will be dramatically less than with the systems that we have now which may turn On the auxillary heat if the heat pump can't keep up. That's 40Amps of power to run the auxillary heat. Not cheap. So at the end of the day, if you can time it to get all the rebates and tax credits for a little more money you can get a variable speed system and enjoy electricity savings and a more comfortable home.what was the cost?

[dewilson58]

what was the cost?

4 tons, 22 SEER top of the line Carrier Infinity system, $13.5K all in.

[srswans]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

I upgraded my house up north with a variable speed and it saved me $1000 a year over the original, builder-grade unit.

I also opted for the variable-speed unit when building my TV house and couldn’t be happier with its performance. House is cool and dry.

[RRGuyNJ]

You realize those mini split systems that everyone is installing are variable speed units with many of the same "fancy" parts. It's just variable speed main heatpumps are somewhat new and many don't understand the technology.

Those mini split systems initially had a lot of that "fancy" circuit board failures related to power surges. Now everyone comes with a surge protector to fix that issue. Same with newer variable speed heat pumps.


I had a Samsung minisplit in my shop building and after 5 years a circuit board failed. I figured no big deal. I swear I have my doubts if one existed on the planet! My HVAC guy recommended going with a Daikin to replace it and they required a hardwired surge protector at the service disconnect in order to maintain warranty. So far, so good after 3 years.
Variable speed systems do save energy but given the cost upfront, who knows for sure if the savings will catch up.

[jrref]

I had a high-end unit with variable fan speed in my unit just before I moved here. Fan outside failed, independent tech said you want to spend $1200 to replace that unit, or $350 for a fixed speed unit. 20 years old, it was a no brainer.

He told me the controls (like circuit boards) for these units are much many times more expensive also.
Replaced my TV unit last September. I opted for the highest rated (SEER) single stage, fixed speed unit. Got rebate; but not as much as a higher SEER.

Salesman started by pitching the high SEER units. Smiled when I asked if it would ever pay for itself, and came back to Earth.

When you have to replace an infrastruture device like a HVAC system, refrigerator, washer, dryer, etc., you don't do it to get a return on investment on cost. It's something you have to have so you go out and get it. The question then is do I get the basic or upgraded device? Many are cost driven so they get the cheapest they can find. Others consider the convenience, better user experience, comfort, cost savings, etc., and may decide to get an upgraded unit. It's the same for the HVAC system. All the reliable companies operating here in the Villages always offer you the basic, mid-range and then the top of the line system. All have pros and cons. These companies know there are Villagers who will only want the cheapest replacement for whatever reason and there are those who want the most comfort now that most of us are in the last chapter of our lives which is hopefully a long chapter.
With the newer variable speed systems, when they first came out there were a lot of problems due to power surges and during the pandemic a shortage of chips which lead to a shortage of parts. Same was the case for the mini splits many are installing. They are just a different version of the variable speed heat pump. Now, when the system is installed they also install a surge protector at the outside condensor which has minimized these circuit boards from pre-maturely failing. No more chip shortage so no more part shortage.
Let's now address the new freon refrigerant. So, over the years freon has gone through an evolution getting replaced with new formulations to address the effects on the environment. Whether you agree or not, its just the way it is and has happened many times. As of 1/1/25, there was a new replacement yet again. The result was around a 5% increase in price for the newer systems which is expected to increase about the same amount each year for while for many reasons. But there is a silver lining. On the newer variable speed systems, along with the price increase there has been improvements in cooling and heating efficiencies for heat pumps. So, you pay a little more but may save on electric usage.

You also need to consider what's in our control and what's not. When we talk about efficiency and electric usage, many will downplay this aspect since there is no way to get a return on investment for cost paying for a more expensive machine. But we do know that electric rates continue to rise over time and there is nothing we can do about it so you may be kicking yourself for not getting a more efficient system down the road if rates continue to go up.

There are many reputable installers out there and they will all have their opinions so it's best to do the research, watch some Youtube videos, get educated, decide what you want because you will be living with it for a long time, then research and select the best installer to do the job. As I've mentioned, if you decide on the variable speed inverter system like a Carrier Infinity you may have to go with one of the larger HVAC companies that have the resourses, tools and training to install and maintain these newer systems. Eventually, eventhough they have been out for about 10 years, they will be more common place and all HVAC companies will be installing them. Finally, since these systems should last from 10-15 years you may also consider a company who you feel will still be around in this time frame if you have a labor warranty. Hope this helps.

[mrf6969]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

Have a Variable speed Trane 4 ton installed 4 years ago. For the month of a very warm May our SECO bill that we just received online was $104.00.
We have a 2100 Square foot home. Back of house is a southern exposer with vaulted ceiling and large windows. We could not be happier that our bills are greatly reduced with this system.

[JRcorvette]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

Yes we replaced our 3.5 ton AC with a 4 ton dual speed unit. Our electric bill went down and the unit is super quiet.

[Happydaz]

Curious to know the square footage of your home and the price of the variable speed unit. Can you share?

2200 square foot designer with a 300 square foot enclosed lanai. (Total 2500 square feet. We do have a mini split on the lanai but rarely run it anymore. We leave sliders to the house open.) Cost after tax credit in the 14K range.

[jrref]

Be aware there are different tiers of HVAC companies. There is Premier, Mid-tier and builder grade. Premier is the best quality and the most expensive and Mid-tier in-between and builder grade the cheapest and worst quality. All will work well but the Premier systems statistically will last the longest with the least amount of problems. So, there will be differences in cost depending on the brand you choose and you usually get what you pay for.

[bcloudman]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??
We put one in in March. Love it! Temperature is so consistent, had it set on 75 in April perfect night and day. Quieter both my husband and I noticed how much nicer the temperature was in the house. Not sure about cost savings as we installed a heat pump for our pool the month before. We left for the North in May. Nice to have the thermostat on my phone to check the house temp. It is worth the upgrade.

[Happydaz]

2200 square foot designer with a 300 square foot enclosed lanai. (Total 2500 square feet. We do have a mini split on the lanai but rarely run it anymore. We leave sliders to the house open.) Cost after tax credit in the 14K range.

I made an error in quoting the cost after subtracting the tax credit. The price was 12K.

[Cliff Fr]

We changed out our central ac a few years ago to an Airtemp unit that has a scroll compressor. They are very efficient. The old unit was a Trane with a rotary compressor. Our electric bill is half of what it was and the unit cools better. This is without the complications of a multi stage or variable system. The ac expert told me that the super high efficiency systems rarely achieve the rated seer and they are much more susceptible to break downs

[vbsheriff]

Installed a Bosch 4ton variable unit last year. Installed a variable speed pool pump at the same time. Savings have averaged about $100 per month on Duke bill.

[pkfavreau2]

Have variable speed fan. Personally feel that it is just another gimmick.

It kind of is a gimmick.
1000 watts of power is 3412 btu’s of heat transfer. I pay 11.2 cents per 1000 watts with Seco. Here is no way you will ever get your money back unless the unit lasts 25 years.
Electricity is SO cheap with Seco!

[RICH1]

Installed a Bosch 4ton variable unit last year. Installed a variable speed pool pump at the same time. Savings have averaged about $100 per month on Duke bill.
Yes we have a Bosch also ! BEST PURCHASE EVER

[Rocksnap]

I had a high-end unit with variable fan speed in my unit just before I moved here. Fan outside failed, independent tech said you want to spend $1200 to replace that unit, or $350 for a fixed speed unit. 20 years old, it was a no brainer.

He told me the controls (like circuit boards) for these units are much many times more expensive also.
Replaced my TV unit last September. I opted for the highest rated (SEER) single stage, fixed speed unit. Got rebate; but not as much as a higher SEER.

Salesman started by pitching the high SEER units. Smiled when I asked if it would ever pay for itself, and came back to Earth.
Comfort is the reason to go variable speed.

[Rocksnap]

A variable speed system will cost more money initially and to maintain, and you will never recover the extra cost. It will not significantly improve the comfort or quietness of your house or the resale value. But, it will make the HVAC companies more profitable.

Poster #21 says otherwise.

[retiredguy123]

Poster #21 says otherwise.
I really don't understand the hot and cold room situation. My thermostat never deviates more than one degree from the setting. It sounds like a thermostat issue, or maybe an insulation issue. A variable speed compressor still uses a thermostat to control when it comes on or off.

[jrref]

I really don't understand the hot and cold room situation. My thermostat never deviates more than one degree from the setting. It sounds like a thermostat issue, or maybe an insulation issue. A variable speed compressor still uses a thermostat to control when it comes on or off.

As you are aware, single stage units are like a light switch, either full On or full Off. A variable speed inverter system can be full On and full Off and 80 steps in between. I don't understand this 100% but what they are claiming is since the variable speed runs longer and slower once the house is at the set temperature, this gives all the rooms in the home enough time for the temperature to equalize better. That's the principal and I know from people who have these systems that this is indeed the case and a more comfortable house. You also get the benefit of better air filtration because of the longer slower run times.

As far as zoning, in my home in NY where we had a basement and two levels it made a lot of sense to have multiple zones but here in the Villages since all the homes are single level and not that big except for the premier homes, I don't think you save much only cooling the bedroom and not the rest of the home for example, since at night the AC load is minimal And in the winter you want the whole house to be at a certain temperature when it gets close to freezing since the extremeties of your home will be colder than the core. Just my opinion on that topic.

Once I get my variable speed system I'll report back on the pro's and con's that I see.

[retiredguy123]

People should understand that only about 5 percent of new units being sold today are variable speed, they are very expensive, more difficult to repair, and you will never recover the cost. If a variable speed unit would make my house more comfortable, I might buy one, but I don't think it would. Personally, I think that many people who buy these expensive units do so because a salesperson exaggerates the benefits. Do your own research.

[retiredguy123]

As you are aware, single stage units are like a light switch, either full On or full Off. A variable speed inverter system can be full On and full Off and 80 steps in between. I don't understand this 100% but what they are claiming is since the variable speed runs longer and slower once the house is at the set temperature, this gives all the rooms in the home enough time for the temperature to equalize better. That's the principal and I know from people who have these systems that this is indeed the case and a more comfortable house. You also get the benefit of better air filtration because of the longer slower run times.

As far as zoning, in my home in NY where we had a basement and two levels it made a lot of sense to have multiple zones but here in the Villages since all the homes are single level and not that big except for the premier homes, I don't think you save much only cooling the bedroom and not the rest of the home for example, since at night the AC load is minimal And in the winter you want the whole house to be at a certain temperature when it gets close to freezing since the extremeties of your home will be colder than the core. Just my opinion on that topic.

Once I get my variable speed system I'll report back on the pro's and con's that I see.
Can you explain why a heat pump needs 80 different steps of cooling to keep a house at the proper temperature? Why would it use step 20 at one time and then change to step 60 for another time? Whatever of those 80 steps is being used, it will be the same for all rooms in the house, if you only have one zone. As I have said, my house temperature never deviates more than one degree from the thermostat setting in any room at any time.

[jimhoward]

Can you explain why a heat pump needs 80 different steps of cooling to keep a house at the proper temperature? Why would it use step 20 at one time and then change to step 60 for another time? Whatever of those 80 steps is being used, it will be the same for all rooms in the house, if you only have one zone. As I have said, my house temperature never deviates more than one degree from the thermostat setting in any room at any time.

As I am sure you know, a heat pump runs most efficiently when it is running continuously. So a system would use step 20 on a cooler day and 60 on a warmer one. In both cases running the unit continuously.

It is amazing that your whole home never deviates more than 1 degree (F) from the thermostat set temperature. That is such a tiny number. You have only one thermostat so you must keep a thermometer in every room in order to know that. and you must really fine tune the dampers as the heat load differs from room to room. But I am just speculating. Regardless, congrats on having an incredible home. In my house the temperature in the corners of the house differs by more then 1 deg F from the temperature at the thermostat.

[ithos]

Upgraded 2 years ago to a Carrier variable speed heat pump. I went from a one speed (100% or off. They call this a two speed unit, but one of the speeds is OFF!) to a 75 speed heat pump. (25% to 100% in 1% increments) The new unit qualified for a $2000 tax credit. We are saving between $30-$35 a month in electricity. On a purely monetary method it would be many years to pay off the difference in the purchase cost between the two units, but it is much, much quieter. The prior unit was outside our bedroom and we would hear it bang and boom all night. The new one we can’t hear most of the time. Since it can operate at lower speeds it is not just quieter but is also much more efficient in dehumidifying the house. The fact that it can operate at such low speeds means it also is quietly running for longer time intervals. This doesn’t add to the electricity cost as I’ve already said it saves us money each month. Since it runs longer the air temperature is more even throughout the house whether it is cooling or heating. No more hot or cold spots. My wife’s sewing room is no longer hot and our glassed in lanai stays near the house temperature. (Sliders open) We rarely turn the mini split on anymore. As you can tell, we love our new unit. I did get a 15 year warranty with it. Let’s see I’ll be 91 when that runs out!

Soft starts significantly reduce the startup up noise and increases the lifespan of the compressor and adds another layer of protection to power surges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp1g8r8IVs&t=70s

[retiredguy123]

As I am sure you know, a heat pump runs most efficiently when it is running continuously. So a system would use step 20 on a cooler day and 60 on a warmer one. In both cases running the unit continuously.

It is amazing that your whole home never deviates more than 1 degree (F) from the thermostat set temperature. That is such a tiny number. You have only one thermostat so you must keep a thermometer in every room in order to know that. and you must really fine tune the dampers as the heat load differs from room to room. But I am just speculating. Regardless, congrats on having an incredible home. In my house the temperature in the corners of the house differs by more then 1 deg F from the temperature at the thermostat.
Personally, I am not sure how a variable speed heat pump is programmed. Apparently, you are saying that the run speed is based on the outside air temperature? If so, there must be other factors involved. Summers in The Villages seem to have consistently high temperatures in the 90's, so there is not that much deviation in outside temperature when you need cooling. I would also point out that, if you have temperature deviations throughout the house, a variable speed heat pump will not solve that problem. The heat pump can only try to satisfy one thermostat regardless of at which speed it is running. So, if your thermostat is set to 75 degrees, that is what you will get at the thermostat, regardless of whether you have a single speed or a variable speed heat pump. Also, regarding efficiency, I don't agree that running a heat pump continuously is the most efficient method in terms of electricity usage. It takes very little electricity to start a heat pump.

[ithos]

My new carrier unit full of Chinese parts… probably like all rest of brands? So we just have to suffer for while…

Plenty of YT videos of how to replace a capacitor. Make sure it is American Made.

[jrref]

People should understand that only about 5 percent of new units being sold today are variable speed, they are very expensive, more difficult to repair, and you will never recover the cost. If a variable speed unit would make my house more comfortable, I might buy one, but I don't think it would. Personally, I think that many people who buy these expensive units do so because a salesperson exaggerates the benefits. Do your own research.

Well that used to be the case. From my recent experience the other day the cost of the newer variable speed units such as the Carrier Infinity is only a couple thousand more than the basic single speed units after the instant rebates that carrier is currently offering and the $2,000 federal tax credit. So, a typical single stage 16 SEER system is costing approximately $9,000 and the 22 SEER Variable speed is costing me $13.5K in the 4 ton system. Smaller units will be cheaper. This includes 10 year parts and full labor and if the compressor fails in the 10 year period, Carrier gives you a whole new condensor unit vs repair. All in writing. Apparently Carrier is fairly confident in the longevity and failure of the system to offer the 10 year parts and labor so inexpensively. In addition, you are looking at a 15 or 16 SEER system and moving to a 21 or 22 SEER system with a significanty more efficient heat rating down to -13 meaning at 30-40 degree weather we have here the system will be still running at high efficiency compared to the heat pumps we have now that struggle at 30-40 degrees. So, you will be saving a significant amount on electricity. Not enough to pay for the whole system but if you can save at least $50/month over 10 years thats $6,000 so if you add the $6,000 to the basic unit and its the same or close enouth to the Variable speed system you will save enough in electricity to cover the increase in cost. Some people say they were saving $100/month but I'll have to see what I actually save. It doesn't matter how expensive these units may be to repair if you have the 10 year parts and labor. After 10 -15 years you will be planning on replacement anyway so you are covered. As far as getting more comfort? That's what they say should happen and some here have reported a more comfortable home environment with the variable speed vs the single stage units. I'll let you know how I feel about this but given the technology it should be better, for sure in humidity and air purification. What is happening right now, and I don't know how long it will continue is with the new freon, many are scared to change so they are repairing instead of replacing. Manufacturers want you to purchase the newer more efficient units so they are offering steeper rebates to bring the cost down closer to traditional systems in an effort to get you to purchase the more expensive system. From recent research on the new freon, systems did increase in cost about 5% from last year but the newer systems are slightly more efficient so you may make up some of most of that increase in energy savings. In addition, HVAC systems are planned to go up an additional 5% for the next couple of years for all kinds of reasons so if you are planning on replacing your system, now may be a good time given all the rebates and credits.

[jrref]

I also found if you are a Duke energy customer, not Seco, you get an additional $1,000 rebate when installing one of the Carrier Infinity systems. Seco doesn't seem to be offering rebates.

[retiredguy123]

I also found if you are a Duke energy customer, not Seco, you get an additional $1,000 rebate when installing one of the Carrier Infinity systems. Seco doesn't seem to be offering rebates.
Are you saying that buying a variable speed HVAC system is the cheapest way to go over time? If so, I have to disagree.

[jrref]

Are you saying that buying a variable speed HVAC system is the cheapest way to go over time? If so, I have to disagree.

What I'm saying is right now, with all the rebates and tax credits, if you take into account the energy savings even on the low end of $50/month over 10 years, the cost for a variable speed unit will be the same or close to the basic single stage units, enough to pay for the additional cost of a better unit meaning, better air purification, better humidity and temperature control and quiteness. When you go to the Carrier web site and look under tax credits, they are only for the Infinity and most of the high efficiency mini-split systems meaning there are some conditions on which units qualify for the federal tax credit. There may be other conditions for other manufacturers.

[jimhoward]

Personally, I am not sure how a variable speed heat pump is programmed. Apparently, you are saying that the run speed is based on the outside air temperature? If so, there must be other factors involved. Summers in The Villages seem to have consistently high temperatures in the 90's, so there is not that much deviation in outside temperature when you need cooling. I would also point out that, if you have temperature deviations throughout the house, a variable speed heat pump will not solve that problem. The heat pump can only try to satisfy one thermostat regardless of at which speed it is running. So, if your thermostat is set to 75 degrees, that is what you will get at the thermostat, regardless of whether you have a single speed or a variable speed heat pump. Also, regarding efficiency, I don't agree that running a heat pump continuously is the most efficient method in terms of electricity usage. It takes very little electricity to start a heat pump.

You are getting into some fine detail here that I don't know for sure. I don't think the speed it set directly by outside air temperature, I think it is set indirectly by it according to demand. If the thermostat is asking for cooling constantly it will increase the speed. If it asks for cooling less because the house isn't heating up so fast, it will reduce the speed.

Yes, the set point at the thermostat is what you will get regardless of single, multistage or variable speed. Its only a matter of whether the control system is bang-bang (off/on) or proportional.

I think the premise behind multi-stage or variable speed unit is that they are indeed more efficient. To the extent that you are correct then there would be no advantage beyond the ability to zone more easily.

[ithos]

What I'm saying is right now, with all the rebates and tax credits, if you take into account the energy savings even on the low end of $50/month over 10 years, the cost for a variable speed unit will be the same or close to the basic single stage units, enough to pay for the additional cost of a better unit meaning, better air purification, better humidity and temperature control and quiteness. When you go to the Carrier web site and look under tax credits, they are only for the Infinity and most of the high efficiency mini-split systems meaning there are some conditions on which units qualify for the federal tax credit. There may be other conditions for other manufacturers.

I agree that speed control is preferable for energy efficient humidity control. Fan speed slows for increase in dehumidification. Hopefully the new controllers are sophisticated enough so that reheat is rarely required. That being said, a very well insulated home will do ok on humidity with a single stage compressor.

Another advantage of a variable speed is that the motor will last much longer since it will no longer experience the thousands of across the line starts which results in large spikes in current flow every time it starts. Also on average the running current will be lower. Of course it will be on longer but net stress on the motor will be far less.

Downside is that there are more components to fail, primarily the variable speed controller but that will be much much easier to replace than a compressor.

[jrref]

You are getting into some fine detail here that I don't know for sure. I don't think the speed it set directly by outside air temperature, I think it is set indirectly by it according to demand. If the thermostat is asking for cooling constantly it will increase the speed. If it asks for cooling less because the house isn't heating up so fast, it will reduce the speed.

Yes, the set point at the thermostat is what you will get regardless of single, multistage or variable speed. Its only a matter of whether the control system is bang-bang (off/on) or proportional.

I think the premise behind multi-stage or variable speed unit is that they are indeed more efficient. To the extent that you are correct then there would be no advantage beyond the ability to zone more easily.

I copied this from one of the HVAC reviewers. Good high level explanation.

>>>>
How Does a Variable Capacity Heat Pump Work?
A variable capacity heat pump operates by adjusting its output to match the specific heating or cooling demands of your home. Instead of running at full blast or completely shutting off like traditional single-stage systems, it modulates its output. Think of it like the accelerator on your car: instead of just two options—full throttle or nothing—you can ease into the speed you want. This ability to adjust the heating or cooling capacity incrementally ensures the system runs more efficiently and keeps your home at a consistent, comfortable temperature.

Variable capacity heat pumps use advanced technology to continuously monitor the indoor temperature and the outside conditions. Based on this data, the system makes minute adjustments to maintain optimal performance. By running at lower speeds more frequently, it not only conserves energy but also reduces wear and tear on the system itself. This results in greater efficiency and a longer lifespan for your heat pump.

Are Variable Speed Heat Pumps Worth It?
In a word—yes. Variable speed heat pumps are absolutely worth it, especially if you’re looking for more than just basic temperature control. Here’s why:

Energy Efficiency – Because the system adjusts its speed and capacity, it uses less electricity than systems that cycle on and off all day. This can lead to significant energy savings on your utility bills.

Comfort – With a variable speed heat pump, you’ll experience fewer temperature swings. Instead of blasting cold or hot air intermittently, it maintains a steady, comfortable indoor environment.

Longevity – Since the system doesn't constantly cycle on and off, it undergoes less strain over time, which means fewer repairs and a longer operational life.

Quiet Operation – These systems tend to operate more quietly because they’re often running at lower speeds. The days of noisy HVAC systems kicking on and off are behind you.

So, if you value comfort, efficiency, and long-term savings, a variable speed heat pump is a sound investment.

What is Variable Capacity?
Variable capacity refers to a heat pump's ability to modulate its output based on the specific heating or cooling requirements at any given moment. Rather than running at a fixed capacity, a variable capacity heat pump adjusts to provide just the right amount of heating or cooling to meet your home’s needs.

In simple terms, if it’s a mild day, the heat pump will run at a lower capacity. On extremely cold or hot days, it can ramp up its output to keep your home comfortable. This flexibility makes it far more efficient compared to systems that run at full power regardless of the actual demand.

What is the Difference Between Variable Capacity and Variable Speed?
The terms variable capacity and variable speed are often used interchangeably, but they refer to slightly different aspects of the system’s operation.

Variable Speed refers to the compressor’s ability to adjust its speed. A variable speed compressor can run at different speeds based on the demand, rather than operating at just high or low settings.

Variable Capacity focuses on the system’s ability to adjust its overall output. It’s more about how much heating or cooling the system provides, rather than how fast it runs.

Both technologies work hand-in-hand, allowing the system to modulate its operation for maximum efficiency and comfort. In essence, variable speed controls how the system works, while variable capacity controls what the system provides.

Final Thoughts
A variable capacity heat pump isn't just a trend—it's a smart solution for homeowners who want more control, better efficiency, and improved comfort. When you pair this technology with the flexibility of variable speed, you get a system that works smarter, lasts longer, and keeps your home comfortable in any season. If you're considering upgrading your HVAC system, a variable speed heat pump might just be the game-changer you’re looking for.
<<<<<

[JMintzer]

You must be a distributor of variable speed systems

To whom are you responding?

[JMintzer]

I really don't understand the hot and cold room situation. My thermostat never deviates more than one degree from the setting. It sounds like a thermostat issue, or maybe an insulation issue. A variable speed compressor still uses a thermostat to control when it comes on or off.

Do these people not understand that you can "fine tune" your air flow by partially closing some vents (in the cold rooms) and leaving the warmer rooms wide open?

[ithos]

You are getting into some fine detail here that I don't know for sure. I don't think the speed it set directly by outside air temperature, I think it is set indirectly by it according to demand. If the thermostat is asking for cooling constantly it will increase the speed. If it asks for cooling less because the house isn't heating up so fast, it will reduce the speed.

Yes, the set point at the thermostat is what you will get regardless of single, multistage or variable speed. Its only a matter of whether the control system is bang-bang (off/on) or proportional.

I think the premise behind multi-stage or variable speed unit is that they are indeed more efficient. To the extent that you are correct then there would be no advantage beyond the ability to zone more easily.

It is also beneficial for humidity control. On very humid days, the temperature may be at setpoint but the humidity may still be too high.
With single stage control the programming will bring on the heaters which will increase the compressor runtiime and raise your electric bill.
With variable speed it lowers the fan speed so that the air spends more time traveling through the cooling coils increasing the dehumidification rate. The heaters will probably never be used for dehumidification.

In other words:
Enhanced Dehumidification
When temperatures are at their highest outside, once your home is comfortable, it is more energy efficient for the HVAC system to dehumidify the air rather than air conditioning it and decrease the temperature. A variable HVAC option removes up to 400% more moisture than a standard system. This means less cycling, longer run times, and optimized compressor and blower speeds.
Why does variable speed air conditioning make sense? (https://www.superior-service.com/blog/why-does-variable-speed-air-conditioning-make-sense/)

[retiredguy123]

It is also beneficial for humidity control. On very humid days, the temperature may be at setpoint but the humidity may still be too high.
With single stage control the programming will bring on the heaters which will increase the compressor runtiime and raise your electric bill.
With variable speed it lowers the fan speed so that the air spends more time traveling through the cooling coils increasing the dehumidification rate. The heaters will probably never be used for dehumidification.

In other words:
Enhanced Dehumidification
When temperatures are at their highest outside, once your home is comfortable, it is more energy efficient for the HVAC system to dehumidify the air rather than air conditioning it and decrease the temperature. A variable HVAC option removes up to 400% more moisture than a standard system. This means less cycling, longer run times, and optimized compressor and blower speeds.
Why does variable speed air conditioning make sense? (https://www.superior-service.com/blog/why-does-variable-speed-air-conditioning-make-sense/)
As I understand it, most units in The Villages do not have a reheat function for dehumidification. The only way to reduce the humidity is to use an optional thermostat setting that overcools the house (about 3 degrees below the temperature setting) when the humidity is too high. I never use this setting because I never really experience high humidity in the house, and I don't want to overcool the house. You are correct that, if the variable speed heat pump runs at a slower speed, it will reduce the humidity by running longer.

[ithos]

As I understand it, most units in The Villages do not have a reheat function for dehumidification. The only way to reduce the humidity is to use an optional thermostat setting that overcools the house (about 3 degrees below the temperature setting) when the humidity is too high. I never use this setting because I never really experience high humidity in the house, and I don't want to overcool the house. You are correct that, if the variable speed heat pump runs at a slower speed, it will reduce the humidity by running longer.

I agree that most homes don't have dehumidification controls. In my home though sometimes the temperature is at setpoint and it still feels too humid so I lower the temperature setpoint. It is a minor inconvience that I can live with.

I believe that reducing the cooling effect of the compressor will not help humidity control. Reducing the fans speed is the method to increase dehumidification rate.
To Remove More Moisture, Lower Airflow Speed | ACHR News (https://www.achrnews.com/articles/92475-to-remove-more-moisture-lower-airflow-speed)

[Happydaz]

All these discussions seem to have some people on one side favoring the single speed heat pump as they believe a unit that runs all the time at 100% unless it is off doesn’t save on electricity over variable speed units.This is their belief but they have no experience to base their assumptions on. They also believe parts are hard to get and the comfort profile isn’t better with the 75-80 variable speed heat pumps. Guess what. This discussion would be a non issue if these different heat pumps cost the same. I will admit that spending $3000 more upfront is not easy, but in my case the system is so quiet and comfortable as the air slowly moves throughout all the rooms. No cold or hot spots. I could never go back. Then people say you never get your money back. How do they know? I will get my $3000 extra back in 7 years. (Saving $35 a month in electricity)

[jrref]

All these discussions seem to have some people on one side favoring the single speed heat pump as they believe a unit that runs all the time at 100% unless it is off doesn’t save on electricity over variable speed units.This is their belief but they have no experience to base their assumptions on. They also believe parts are hard to get and the comfort profile isn’t better with the 75-80 variable speed heat pumps. Guess what. This discussion would be a non issue if these different heat pumps cost the same. I will admit that spending $3000 more upfront is not easy, but in my case the system is so quiet and comfortable as the air slowly moves throughout all the rooms. No cold or hot spots. I could never go back. Then people say you never get your money back. How do they know? I will get my $3000 extra back in 7 years. (Saving $35 a month in electricity)

Thanks for the honest feedback on your system. This thread, I believe, is showing how many here in the Villages tend to shy away from anything new and the thought process the old tried and true is always better. I think if we all had that thought pattern we would all be driving old cars without any electronics if we could. Another problem is with HVAC systems, many don't have or can understand the technology, so they rely on the HVAC contractor to make their decisions, which is fine but although many HVAC contractors here in the Villages are honest and reputable, they only know what they know right? Depending onthe size and breath of their business you are getting an opinion on when to repair or change and when changing, what to go with. I agree when variable systems first came out about 10 years ago there were lots of issues that needed to be worked out but now it's a fairly mature technology with a lot of benefits. My opinion is a reputable HVAC contractor should lay out all the options with all the facts when a customer is looking to replace and then let them decide since everyone has different needs and situations. As far as repair, although an experienced HVAC contractor will have a good idea on how long your system may last given it's age and history, it's only a guess. One school of though is repair until it drops so the HVAC contractor makes the most money on repairs. Another is replace so they make their money up front and can service more customers. No right or wrong, just the way it is. Always remember, if you unit fails unexpectantly and it's in the hot season, you may be without AC for a while and at the end of the day when you sell your home the HVAC system is going to be a significant factor on whether you get your price or not. Anyway, thanks for your post on your personal experience with one of these Variable speed inverter systems.

[ithos]

I installed an EasyStart whicy significantly reduces the noise upon start and extends the life of the compressor. I installed it myself but most people should get a tech to do it.
[/url]
Why Every Homeowner Should Consider Installing an AC Soft Starter | Micro Air Easy Start Install
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp1g8r8IVs&t=301s (https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C7EE3BFA-D0C5-48DB-A0B2-4545FA251F94/?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=bbb_bsp_page_sto&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_ssd_page_0_img&store_ref=SB_A09943672VD4CQQJCKOLF-A08227293A2RGGX6XZD32&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=4935f737f2377bd0711ce79a6895e8d8&hsa_cr_id=0&lp_asins=B0DKQN4XRJ&lp_query=easystart&lp_slot=auto-sparkle-hsa-tetris&pd_rd_w=tvfLB&content-id=amzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942%3Aamzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_p=8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_r=2KCVE2JM04P5F13SFPN6&pd_rd_wg=rv1MS&pd_rd_r=b9fad253-a679-4f74-9599-15de25671110)

[Risuli]

This thread, I believe, is showing how many here in the Villages tend to shy away from anything new and the thought process the old tried and true is always better. I think if we all had that thought pattern we would all be driving old cars without any electronics if we could.

Obviously there is some truth in what you are saying, but "the old tried and true" has a much longer track record to judge against. If you are of the age to move to the Villages, as most all are, you have certainly experienced the change in what used to be truly "durable goods", like furnaces/AC, stoves, refrigerators, hot water tanks, washers/dryers etc. Growing up these items LASTED. Furnaces/AC could go 20+ years, stoves forever, refrigerators well over 10 years (I sold my grandparents 1940 fridge a few years back after 70 years of perfect use!). Hot water tanks routinely lasted well over 10 years; washers/dryers over 10 years as well.

Now, due to plan obsolesence, most hot water tanks have a 6 year warranty, as well as all the other appliances with a 1 year/5 year parts warranty now. And these things simply do not last HALF as long as they used to as they are no longer made to do so. Guess all I am saying is that the impression is that NEWER, for some, means less reliable.

[retiredguy123]

Obviously there is some truth in what you are saying, but "the old tried and true" has a much longer track record to judge against. If you are of the age to move to the Villages, as most all are, you have certainly experienced the change in what used to be truly "durable goods", like furnaces/AC, stoves, refrigerators, hot water tanks, washers/dryers etc. Growing up these items LASTED. Furnaces/AC could go 20+ years, stoves forever, refrigerators well over 10 years (I sold my grandparents 1940 fridge a few years back after 70 years of perfect use!). Hot water tanks routinely lasted well over 10 years; washers/dryers over 10 years as well.

Now, due to plan obsolesence, most hot water tanks have a 6 year warranty, as well as all the other appliances with a 1 year/5 year parts warranty now. And these things simply do not last HALF as long as they used to as they are no longer made to do so. Guess all I am saying is that the impression is that NEWER, for some, means less reliable.
Good points. The construction industry is very resistant to changes. One reason is that they have been burned. Do you remember the polybutylene pipe lawsuits, and the aluminum wiring lawsuits? Houses are still constructed using 2x4 wood studs, drywall, and asphalt shingles. Personally, I can accept newer designs, but when I replace a major item in my house, I consider the impact of having something fail and the availability of replacement materials and the labor to install it. One reason that I would not buy a variable speed heat pump is that it only represents about 5 percent of the new replacement market. If it was 50 percent, I might buy one. To me, the potential benefits do not outweigh the tried and true system. I know that I can get a single stage heat pump repaired almost immediately in The Villages, which is very important when you have no air conditioning. My opinion.

[jrref]

Obviously there is some truth in what you are saying, but "the old tried and true" has a much longer track record to judge against. If you are of the age to move to the Villages, as most all are, you have certainly experienced the change in what used to be truly "durable goods", like furnaces/AC, stoves, refrigerators, hot water tanks, washers/dryers etc. Growing up these items LASTED. Furnaces/AC could go 20+ years, stoves forever, refrigerators well over 10 years (I sold my grandparents 1940 fridge a few years back after 70 years of perfect use!). Hot water tanks routinely lasted well over 10 years; washers/dryers over 10 years as well.

Now, due to plan obsolesence, most hot water tanks have a 6 year warranty, as well as all the other appliances with a 1 year/5 year parts warranty now. And these things simply do not last HALF as long as they used to as they are no longer made to do so. Guess all I am saying is that the impression is that NEWER, for some, means less reliable.

I don't disagree that they don't make things like they used to. My point is, when your HVAC system does need replacing, you will have a choice of a single stage, multi stage or variable speed inverter system. All three systems will not be built like they used to. So, given that, if you can get the more capable variable speed system vs the single or multi-stage system for the same or slightly more money why wouldn't you do that? Especially if there is small higher cost that can be recovered in a couple years from the energy savings. Considering you are getting full parts and labor for 10 or 15 years on all three systems means the manufacture believes all three systems will last about the same length of time so even if one system is more complicated than the other so it will fail more often the manufacture doesn't believe so and you are covered. I do know that most of the larger HVAC companies servicing the Villages do stock these variable speed systems now so you can probably get one in a day assuming the technicians are available.

[Altavia]

I installed an EasyStart whicy significantly reduces the noise upon start and extends the life of the compressor. I installed it myself but most people should get a tech to do it.
[/url]
Why Every Homeowner Should Consider Installing an AC Soft Starter | Micro Air Easy Start Install
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp1g8r8IVs&t=301s (https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/C7EE3BFA-D0C5-48DB-A0B2-4545FA251F94/?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=bbb_bsp_page_sto&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_ssd_page_0_img&store_ref=SB_A09943672VD4CQQJCKOLF-A08227293A2RGGX6XZD32&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=4935f737f2377bd0711ce79a6895e8d8&hsa_cr_id=0&lp_asins=B0DKQN4XRJ&lp_query=easystart&lp_slot=auto-sparkle-hsa-tetris&pd_rd_w=tvfLB&content-id=amzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942%3Aamzn1.sym.8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_p=8591358d-1345-4efd-9d50-5bd4e69cd942&pf_rd_r=2KCVE2JM04P5F13SFPN6&pd_rd_wg=rv1MS&pd_rd_r=b9fad253-a679-4f74-9599-15de25671110)

Interesting, I've been looking at those, was there room to install inside the unit.

A little worried it could void the 10yr parts warranty?

[ithos]

Good points. The construction industry is very resistant to changes. One reason is that they have been burned. Do you remember the polybutylene pipe lawsuits, and the aluminum wiring lawsuits? Houses are still constructed using 2x4 wood studs, drywall, and asphalt shingles. Personally, I can accept newer designs, but when I replace a major item in my house, I consider the impact of having something fail and the availability of replacement materials and the labor to install it. One reason that I would not buy a variable speed heat pump is that it only represents about 5 percent of the new replacement market. If it was 50 percent, I might buy one. To me, the potential benefits do not outweigh the tried and true system. I know that I can get a single stage heat pump repaired almost immediately in The Villages, which is very important when you have no air conditioning. My opinion.

Varable speed compressors are almost as common as single stage in new installations. (commerical and residential).
I agree there are more means of failure but most can be repaired and on average they last significantly longer than single stage.

Staged compressors
Electrical Stress:
High inrush current puts thermal and magnetic stress on windings and contactors, which can lead to insulation breakdown over time.
Mechanical Stress:
Sudden high torque causes shock loads on mechanical components (compressor shaft, bearings, mounts).

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030 (https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/north-america-hvac-compressor-market-report)

[ithos]

Interesting, I've been looking at those, was there room to install inside the unit.

A little worried it could void the 10yr parts warranty?

If installed properly it significantly reduces probablilty of failure and that would be a benefit for the insurer. It also has limited protection for spikes in voltage.

I would contact the contractor who installed it. It can be a DIY but they may have reservations.

[retiredguy123]

///

[retiredguy123]

Varable speed compressors are almost as common as single stage in new installations. (commerical and residential).
I agree there are more means of failure but most can be repaired and on average they last significantly longer than single stage.

Staged compressors
Electrical Stress:
High inrush current puts thermal and magnetic stress on windings and contactors, which can lead to insulation breakdown over time.
Mechanical Stress:
Sudden high torque causes shock loads on mechanical components (compressor shaft, bearings, mounts).

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030 (https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/north-america-hvac-compressor-market-report)
I would take issue with your first sentence, especially in The Villages.

Market Share:
While precise market share figures are hard to find, the market for variable speed heat pumps is growing. A 2021 J.D. Power report suggests that variable-capacity central equipment represents only about 5% of central HVAC equipment sales, indicating a larger share for single-speed and two-stage systems. However, the growing focus on energy efficiency and comfort is expected to drive further adoption of variable speed systems.

[ithos]

I would take issue with your first sentence, especially in The Villages.

Market Share:
While precise market share figures are hard to find, the market for variable speed heat pumps is growing. A 2021 J.D. Power report suggests that variable-capacity central equipment represents only about 5% of central HVAC equipment sales, indicating a larger share for single-speed and two-stage systems. However, the growing focus on energy efficiency and comfort is expected to drive further adoption of variable speed systems.

I would too if it was based on my expertise but I provided a link to a very credible source. I don't think businesses would be installing VSCs if they were more prone to failure. And most importantly the life of the compressor will be extended. In most cases when the compressor fails the whole unit has to be replaced.

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030 (https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/north-america-hvac-compressor-market-report)

[retiredguy123]

I would too if it was based on my expertise but I provided a link to a very credible source. I don't think businesses would be installing VSCs if they were more prone to failure. And most importantly the life of the compressor will be extended. In most cases when the compressor fails the whole unit has to be replaced.

North America HVAC Compressor Market Size Report, 2030 (https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/north-america-hvac-compressor-market-report)
Here is a quote from your source:

"The majority of household heating and cooling systems use single-stage scroll compressors. They have just one speed and are the most basic and cost-effective product."

If you are saying that, in The Villages, varable speed compressors are as common as single stage compressors for new and replacement installations, I cannot agree. Also, the vast majority of existing HVAC systeme in the Villages, that often need to be serviced or repaired, are single stage compressor units.

[ithos]

Here is a quote from your source:

"The majority of household heating and cooling systems use single-stage scroll compressors. They have just one speed and are the most basic and cost-effective product."

If you are saying that, in The Villages, varable speed compressors are as common as single stage compressors for new and replacement installations, I cannot agree. Also, the vast majority of existing HVAC systeme in the Villages, that often need to be serviced or repaired, are single stage compressor units.

I thought it was clear that I was referencing the overall commercial and residential markets as noted in my attachment. I will be more explicit next time.

There is no right or wrong choice. They both have there advantages and drawbacks. A variable speed offers improved comfort since it can provide superior humditity control and eliminates the startup noise that many find annoying. Also there is no blast of hot air every time the unit kicks on.

[retiredguy123]

Interesting, I've been looking at those, was there room to install inside the unit.

A little worried it could void the 10yr parts warranty?
I agree that the warranty could indeed be affected. The Carrier warranty does not specifically address a soft start device, but it does say that any modifications to the unit must be authorized by Carrier. I would definitely not install this device on a Carrier compressor that is still covered by a 10-year parts warranty. I watched the video, and you actually need to remove the condenser cover plate and modify the wiring. If the compressor fails, I doubt that Carrier would honor the warranty.

[retiredguy123]

I thought it was clear that I was referencing the overall commercial and residential markets as noted in my attachment. I will be more explicit next time.

There is no right or wrong choice. They both have there advantages and drawbacks. A variable speed offers improved comfort since it can provide superior humditity control and eliminates the startup noise that many find annoying. Also there is no blast of hot air every time the unit kicks on.
I agree that the variable speed units offer some advantages and they are most likely the wave of the future. My comments are strictly related to the current residential market, the cost, and the repairability of the different systems. As of today, I would prefer the "tried and true" approach. I'll let someone else experiment with the new-fangled equipment.

[ithos]

I agree that the variable speed units offer some advantages and they are most likely the wave of the future. My comments are strictly related to the current residential market, the cost, and the repairability of the different systems. As of today, I would prefer the "tried and true" approach. I'll let someone else experiment with the new-fangled equipment.

Variable speed units have been around for decades. In most cases they will last much longer than standard induction motors and provide better energy efficiency and temperature control.

https://www.achrnews.com/ext/resources/2024/11-November/Variable-Speed-Compressors-LG-White-Paper.pdf
Variable Speed’s Impact on HVAC | 2017-02-06 | ACHRNEWS | ACHR News (https://www.achrnews.com/articles/134406-variable-speeds-impact-on-hvac.com)
The Scoop on Variable Speed Motors - Lee's Air, Plumbing and Heating (https://leesair.com/the-scoop-on-variable-speed-motors/)
https://www.hvac-talk.com/threads/variable-speed-compressor-durability.2219493/
VSD vs fixed speed - Atlas Copco USA (https://www.atlascopco.com/en-us/compressors/customerbenefit/vsd/vsd-vs-fixed-speed)

[retiredguy123]

Variable speed units have been around for decades. In most cases they will last much longer than standard induction motors and provide better energy efficiency and temperature control.

https://www.achrnews.com/ext/resources/2024/11-November/Variable-Speed-Compressors-LG-White-Paper.pdf
Variable Speed’s Impact on HVAC | 2017-02-06 | ACHRNEWS | ACHR News (https://www.achrnews.com/articles/134406-variable-speeds-impact-on-hvac.com)
The Scoop on Variable Speed Motors - Lee's Air, Plumbing and Heating (https://leesair.com/the-scoop-on-variable-speed-motors/)
https://www.hvac-talk.com/threads/variable-speed-compressor-durability.2219493/
VSD vs fixed speed - Atlas Copco USA (https://www.atlascopco.com/en-us/compressors/customerbenefit/vsd/vsd-vs-fixed-speed)
I know they are not new, but they have not sold well in the residential market in this area. My only point is that, when I replace an essential item in my house, I tend to go with the standard product being used in the community. That way I know I can get it serviced or repaired easily. Obviously, the standard compressor used in The Villages is a single stage compressor. The Villages builder has installed thousands of them. This would apply to roofing, a water heater, and other construction items. But I don't have an issue if someone wants to buy a variable speed compressor.

[ithos]

I know they are not new, but they have not sold well in the residential market in this area. My only point is that, when I replace an essential item in my house, I tend to go with the standard product being used in the community. That way I know I can get it serviced or repaired easily. Obviously, the standard compressor used in The Villages is a single stage compressor. The Villages builder has installed thousands of them. This would apply to roofing, a water heater, and other construction items. But I don't have an issue if someone wants to buy a variable speed compressor.

If your home has very good insulation, I believe the best option is a single stage compressor with a soft starter. I am very pleased with mine. It provides another layer of protection from electrical faults and the reduced inrush current will significantly extend the life of the compressor.

The target market for these devices is RV's since they have concerns of tripping circuits if the starting current exceeds peak limits.

[ithos]

You should have your contactors and capacitors replaced at least every 10 years. It only takes minutes.

[crash]

Anybody upgrade from a two stage A/C unit to a Variable Speed unit???

Did you notice reduced electric bills??

Did you notice a more comfortable environment??

I have variable speed and it is the most comfortable unit I ever owned. You never notice cold air blowing and then it going off and being hot just a comfortable even temperature.

[jrref]

I know they are not new, but they have not sold well in the residential market in this area. My only point is that, when I replace an essential item in my house, I tend to go with the standard product being used in the community. That way I know I can get it serviced or repaired easily. Obviously, the standard compressor used in The Villages is a single stage compressor. The Villages builder has installed thousands of them. This would apply to roofing, a water heater, and other construction items. But I don't have an issue if someone wants to buy a variable speed compressor.

I don't mean to disagree with you, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the statement that "I know they are not new, but they have not sold well in the residential market in this area.", I don't think that is true any more. Even if you live in an older area where everyone's original HVAC system is ready to be replaced, generally, you don't see the change out in mass so it's hard to tell who's replacing with which system and it's hard to find statistical information on that point. In talking to the sales person from my HVAC company, again unscientific, he's telling me more people are now upgrading to the newer variable speed inverter systems since the cost, right now, is close enough to a single stage system and people are more aware of the technology. I have friends who recently purchased in Middleton and opted for the Variable speed system which is now an option offered by the developer. In principal, I understand your comments and feelings on the topic but there is only one statistic which supports your claim and I'm not sure how relevant it is today. But thanks for the alternate point of view.

[jrref]

If your home has very good insulation, I believe the best option is a single stage compressor with a soft starter. I am very pleased with mine. It provides another layer of protection from electrical faults and the reduced inrush current will significantly extend the life of the compressor.

The target market for these devices is RV's since they have concerns of tripping circuits if the starting current exceeds peak limits.

I also like these soft start units and I know if you have a generator you need to install one of these devices but I also think it may void your warranty. So, if you install one you really need to check with your HVAC company or better call the manufacturer.

But, a single stage system with one of these devices will make your system last longer but not give you the same benefits of a variable speed system.