Slow Play and Tee Time Intervals

[SHIBUMI]

In the old days, tee time intervals were 7 minutes and then 8 minutes. This seemed to fit nicely into 1 hour, thats 8 tee times. As slow play became a problem all sorts of ideas were proposed.
Tommy Thyme, an English efficiency expert, used to take his home made lunch to a local golf course and sit on a golf bench and eat it. He noticed that there would be a clog of golfers on that Hole everyday. He got tired of listening to the bitching and moaning and tried to figure out why.

Tommy had sat and ate lunch on the first par 3 hole on the golf course. He surmised that the amount of time allocated in between groups teeing off the first hole was creating the clog on the first par 3 hole. And once a clog started it would just get worse. He started timing the groups who played the hole he ate lunch on. He determined that whatever that time was would be the ideal time interval off the first tee.

So, if it took 8,9, or 10 minutes, then that should be the time interval off the first tee. And, that interval, once determined needed to be adhered to strictly. In his honor they subsequently called those intervals T.Thyme.

So, slow play can be blamed on the golf course if the tee time interval is not correct, time it takes to play the first par 3 hole. And if the starter doesn't strictly adhere to sending golfers off at the proper time he is the reason for slow play.

Once the golf course does these 2 things then slow play is not their fault. BUT, if during prime time they let out a 2some or single golfer it is their fault. They create slow play.

Thats 3 reasons for slow play you can blame the golf course on. The rest is on the golfers.

If you go play a golf course and look at the first par 3 hole and determined it will take 9 minutes to play that hole and the tee time intervals are 7-8 minutes you are in for a slow day. You have been warned.

Lastly, golf courses with 7 and 8 minute intervals only want your money. You get more golfers out who will meet each other on the first par 3 hole. :cryin2:

[DonH57]

Starters on the executive courses here do things differently. Some actually keep track of the progress of the groups on the first hole while others never leave the shack to observe the groups. Some go by the book on the order of the groups while others will offer switching of a single or pair to go before a foursome. Our foursome always offer to let a single or pair to go out before us to help move things along and other groups will ever have it because that's their tee time and they have to get to their favorite bar stool. Everyone is different. Groups usually stack up around hole 5 or 6 commonly.

[justjim]

Slow play is caused by too many sand traps. That’s also why you find so many traps with footprints all through them.

[GpaVader]

For my experience, slow play is caused by people looking for their ball or extra golf balls in the hazard, socializing on the green, getting off the green or putting their clubs away. Not understanding where the next hole is, having to walk too far back to the cart you left in the middle of the hole instead of driving it up to the green. Not playing ready golf and maybe the biggest is not playing the hole as it is designed for your skill level. On the last item, people that play from the back tee's when they should be playing the middle or front tees.

Take your pick. Sometimes it one of these, or combinations. Good help you if it's all of them.....

[fdpaq0580]

Back in the jurassic when I was able to play, golf was about setting up, concentration, accuracy, fun and relaxation. Oh, and getting a little exercise.
Now days, the should get rid of counting strokes and score cards. Give every player a tee time then hit tha stopeatch. Fastest player wins.

[Aces4]

Back in the jurassic when I was able to play, golf was about setting up, concentration, accuracy, fun and relaxation. Oh, and getting a little exercise.
Now days, the should get rid of counting strokes and score cards. Give every player a tee time then hit tha stopeatch. Fastest player wins.

Sounds like a good game of croquet would do the trick.

[Aces4]

Slow play is caused by too many sand traps. That’s also why you find so many traps with footprints all through them.

That means quite a few people are playing courses above their skill level.

[Rwirish]

Always in a hurry. Relax and enjoy the day.

Slow(er) play, who cares.

[BrianL99]

Slow(er) play, who cares.


Golfers

[1golfergal]

Back when I was in the Golf business AND growing up at Country Clubs.... singles and/or two-somes were never allowed out during premium hours.... or, if they showed up they were always paired with another group... in other words ONLY 4-somes usually until afternoon.
The Villages lets anything go and that is what screws up pace of play.... singles especially. It should not be allowed unless going out for 9 holes in that "early" time between 7-730am.
Also, as we all know, the people who take 2-3 practice swing per shot and the ones who wait to look at their putt when it is their turn versus doing all of that while the other guy is putting.
Pace of play here pretty much sucks.... there is really NO reason why a 4-some cannot play in 4 hours (or less). CPO (of course) adds time. Anyway, my rant and it doesn't matter... just my 2 cents worth. Carry on~~~

[Old Traveller]

My wife took up golf when we moved to the Villages. After she hit the ball, I told her to just take her club and go back to the golf cart. She put the club back in the bag after we arrived at her ball for the next shot. Same with the putter, just get in the cart and move out. She is not a very good golfer but she is fast, and really enjoys getting outside and enjoying this wonderful pastime. Mark your scores down after you arrive at the next tee box.

[BrianL99]

The Villages lets anything go and that is what screws up pace of play.... singles especially. It should not be allowed unless going out for 9 holes in that "early" time between 7-730am.


Pace of play here pretty much sucks.... there is really NO reason why a 4-some cannot play in 4 hours (or less). CPO (of course) adds time. Anyway, my rant and it doesn't matter... just my 2 cents worth. Carry on~~~

Please, tell me how "Singles" affect the Pace of Play? If anything, the help improve the pace of play.

I've played about 400 rounds of championship golf in TV. Less than 10% have taken more than 4:10. Most of the slow rounds have been as a result of how tough the back 9 is, at TDS.

Most any private club in the USA would be thrilled with that pace.

[GymJim]

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

[DonH57]

Back when I was in the Golf business AND growing up at Country Clubs.... singles and/or two-somes were never allowed out during premium hours.... or, if they showed up they were always paired with another group... in other words ONLY 4-somes usually until afternoon.
The Villages lets anything go and that is what screws up pace of play.... singles especially. It should not be allowed unless going out for 9 holes in that "early" time between 7-730am.
Also, as we all know, the people who take 2-3 practice swing per shot and the ones who wait to look at their putt when it is their turn versus doing all of that while the other guy is putting.
Pace of play here pretty much sucks.... there is really NO reason why a 4-some cannot play in 4 hours (or less). CPO (of course) adds time. Anyway, my rant and it doesn't matter... just my 2 cents worth. Carry on~~~

I'm curious myself. How does a single play slower than a foursome? The only one I've seen is one playing three or four balls but that is rare. I have trouble keeping track of one!:a20:

[SHIBUMI]

Pace of Play on executive courses is of no importance. Play is free so folks will just adjust. All are there for fun........sweet

If you belong to a private club and want to play as a single at 10 a.m. after groups have gone you will be lynched and seeking another venue for golf. sweeter

If all groups on the golf course should step aside and let a single thru everyone's round will be slowed. Anyone letting a single out before a certain time should be lynched.

Great to hear about 4:05 or less to play a round of golf......obviously things are not as bad as one is led to believe. sweetest :BigApplause:

Please, tell me how "Singles" affect the Pace of Play? If anything, the help improve the pace of play.

I've played about 400 rounds of championship golf in TV. Less than 10% have taken more than 4:10. Most of the slow rounds have been as a result of how tough the back 9 is, at TDS.

Most any private club in the USA would be thrilled with that pace.

[SHIBUMI]

Tommy Thyme would be proud of you!

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

[DonH57]

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

I remember how fast play was during covid and everyone had their own cart. No wasting time zig zagging all other the fairways slowing each other down. Only damages done by carts were the drivers ignoring the 90 degree rule or driving near the greens and bunkers.

[golfing eagles]

In my humble opinion "slow play" in The Villages (primarily on so-called Championship courses) is a self-inflicted wound caused primarily by the imposition of the unrealistic 8-minute tee time intervals and their (The Villages') time par calculations based on that theoretical place of play. I am not a mathematician, but anyone with a basic knowledge of Queuing Theory can figure out that each of 15 foursomes playing on a full, 18 hole course cannot sustain an 8 minute per hole pace no matter what. One, small bottleneck will disrupt every group behind it and, like in a traffic jam or at a stoplight, stopping and starting does not happen simultaneously - there is always a delay for each ensuing group. Also in my humble opinion, 4 decent golfers can walk 18 holes faster than 4 "elderly" Villagers can play while driving 2 to a cart. Remember how fast we played during COVID when 4 carts per foursome was allowed? I lived in the UK for many years, and they walk there rather than ride - yet most tee time intervals in Scotland are 10-12 minutes despite the faster pace of play. I'd imagine that the sweet spot to maximize enjoyment and profit (the real culprit here) is about an 11 minute tee time interval. I am also not an engineer, nor do I do time and motion studies, but my sense is that The Villages uses the 8 minute interval to squeeze as many people on the course as possible (maximize profits) and justifies it by 'thinking' that our over 55 crowd will make up for its collective lack of mobility/skill/rules awareness etc. by riding in a cart - which (to me) is a false assumption. Especially if there are two golfers to a cart and each one waits in the cart for the other to hit before proceeding to his ball. Still no excuse for ignorance and creeping along, but let's be honest Villagers are getting older and slower, not younger and faster. So, if enjoyment of the game for everyone was really a primary goal (remember that "Villages Lifestyle" you thought you bought?) then The Villages would use tee time intervals (for foursomes) more in line with the UK and most of the world. I am all for playing quickly, but dictating speed of play is like dictating morality - just does not work. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw years ago at the 1st tee at Andrews Air Force Base (near DC) golf course that read: "You Will play in 4 hours!" That's an order. Bottom line: Villagers probably would not play any faster, but they would enjoy it more, if they were not being told they are too slow, as a result of being gauged against some unsustainable 8 minute per hole pace of play requirement. It's primarily the dictated pace of play that causes the perception of slow play. Loosen it up to 11-12 minute intervals and see how that works. Only problem with that is loss of profits - but who's counting?

You need to rethink your math. It’s not 8 minutes per hole because it’s 8 minute tee times. There will be 2 groups on n par 4’s and even 3 on par 5’s. If you look on the scorecard you can see they generally allow 17 minutes for a par 5, 15 for a 4 and 13 for a par 3. Even the PGA tour that leaves 10 minutes between twosomes don’t plan on a 180 minute (3 hour) round

[JMintzer]

I remember how fast play was during covid and everyone had their own cart. No wasting time zig zagging all other the fairways slowing each other down. Only damages done by carts were the drivers ignoring the 90 degree rule or driving near the greens and bunkers.

That is easy to fix. Instead of sitting in your cart, waiting for your partner to hit, drop him off, head to your ball. Once your partner hits, they should start walking up the fairway and once you hit, you can quickly pick him up...

[dewilson58]

That is easy to fix. Instead of sitting in your cart, waiting for your partner to hit, drop him off, head to your ball. Once your partner hits, they should start walking up the fairway and once you hit, you can quickly pick him up...

Obviously you don't live in TV.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Laker14]

I can play fast, or I can play slow.
What I can't stand is being in the group that is responsible for slow play. That will ruin my golf day.

In my regular group nobody seems to get offended or upset with me when I point out that we need to catch up. Playing with strangers is more problematic. One thing that no-one has mentioned: 3 or 4 really bad golfers will be slow. Especially in carts.

It's painful to watch a group of really bad golfers who haven't managed to get a ball airborne in several holes walk from cart to ball, top it 20 yards, walk to the cart, drive the cart 20 yards, walk to ball, top it 20 yards....rinse and repeat.

[DonH57]

That is easy to fix. Instead of sitting in your cart, waiting for your partner to hit, drop him off, head to your ball. Once your partner hits, they should start walking up the fairway and once you hit, you can quickly pick him up...

We do that because I for one have two new knees. People should do that. Others can't or just won't.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Always in a hurry. Relax and enjoy the day.

Slow(er) play, who cares.

The people who are scheduled to tee off behind the people who are scheduled to tee off behind the people who are scheduled to tee off behind you, AND everyone behind them.

[DonH57]

Not fun to watch the ones that fly in directly up to the starter shack 2 minutes before their tee time, sign in, pull up to the tee box put on their shoes and prepare to get ready to play.

[fdpaq0580]

How about par for the hole is the number of swings you get. After that, pick up your ball and go directly to the next tee, take a number and wait your turn. NO TALKING, EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING, FARTING while waiting for your turn.
You may have teed off with a group, but after that, you're on your own. Don't forget your helmet and jock strap. Your score card may have DNF on many holes. Tough! Your body may have some bruises. So what? Hit the effing ball and MOVE! People are waiting!

[DonH57]

How about par for the hole is the number of swings you get. After that, pick up your ball and go directly to the next tee, take a number and wait your turn. NO TALKING, EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING, FARTING while waiting for your turn.
You may have teed off with a group, but after that, you're on your own. Don't forget your helmet and jock strap. Your score card may have DNF on many holes. Tough! Your body may have some bruises. So what? Hit the effing ball and MOVE! People are waiting!

The only thing I don't do while golfing is smoking and I will fart on the green if the group behind us hits up on us!

[JMintzer]

Obviously you don't live in TV.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I never said it actually happens... I said it would fix the problem...

BTW, my golf buddies do this all of the time.

[JMintzer]

We do that because I for one have two new knees. People should do that. Others can't or just won't.

Of course there are exceptions (like having 2 new knees)...

But if you're able to walk a but, you'll speed up play and get more exercise!

[JMintzer]

The only thing I don't do while golfing is smoking and I will fart on the green if the group behind us hits up on us!

I have a friend who's life pleasure is to fart during your backswing...

[fdpaq0580]

i have a friend who's life pleasure is to fart during your backswing...

roflmao 🤣😂😅

[DonH57]

Of course there are exceptions (like having 2 new knees)...

But if you're able to walk a but, you'll speed up play and get more exercise!

I've seen plenty of poor souls who actually deserve and should be using the ready access pass but won't get one and others that you see no visual physical ailment to have one and they are the usual ones driving thru wet areas, up near the greens and bunkers and driving over ropes. I will walk courses when the temp is under 80 and low chance of rain.