Indian Air plane crash

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

[Stu from NYC]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

How could an experienced pilot do that?

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

How could an experienced pilot do that?

So agree. I now see there was one surviver. Miracle. 40 year old man, his brother aboard, dead. I read that the pilot called Mayday just before the crash. Google Air India plane crash video if you care to see…

[tophcfa]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

Not want I wanted to hear about while on the shuttle to MCO : (

[HappyTraveler]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.
Waaayyyy too soon to call that. It could have been a mechanical malfunction...in fact, it could have been multiple ones.

Let's let it play-out and see what investigators find.

[Arctic Fox]

It could have been a mechanical malfunction.

Mechanical malfunction on a Boeing? Outrageous suggestion, with their history.

[HappyTraveler]

Mechanical malfunction on a Boeing? Outrageous suggestion, with their history.
You forgot the LOL. :wave:

[HappyTraveler]

Shocking video reportedly shows power failures inside Air India plane hours before it crashed (https://nypost.com/2025/06/12/world-news/shocking-video-reportedly-shows-power-failures-inside-air-india-plane-hours-before-it-crashed/)

[Topspinmo]

Mechanical malfunction on a Boeing? Outrageous suggestion, with their history.


IMO induced by pilot errors most of them. IMO this crash looks like engines wasn’t producing enough thrust For takeoff roll? Pilot error or computer problem? Engine monitoring Gages should have showed thrust problem if that was the problem?

[Taltarzac725]

They had an expert on crashes who thinks it might have been bad chemicals in the fuel . This was on CNN.

[dtennent]

Waaayyyy too soon to call that. It could have been a mechanical malfunction...in fact, it could have been multiple ones.

Let's let it play-out and see what investigators find.
What! Wait for the facts? There is no fun in that.

[BrianL99]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

You couldn't possibly have posted anything more irresponsible, than blaming someone for the deaths of 254+ people, based on viewing a Youtube video.

Do you have an FAA Airman's Certificate? Do you know not all airplanes use "flaps" for takeoff? Do you know the circumstances when flaps aren't used?

[Taltarzac725]

My uncle was Fire Chief in Itasca, IL. when there was a terrible plane crash just outside of O'Hare Airport. The Deadliest Crash: Flight 191 and its Maintenance Legacy | Aviation Maintenance Magazine The Deadliest Crash: Flight 191 and its Maintenance Legacy | Aviation Maintenance Magazine (https://share.google/MqyVTcesWR5IaqogZ) He and fire crews from all over Chicagoland were called in to help with the aftermath. When he told me about his experiences you could see how traumatic the experience was for them. This is still the worst airline accident in the US. My uncle passed in 1994 while I was helping take of another uncle up to when he could get into a nursing home a few hundred feet away . The fire crews in the Chicagoland area rode their fire engines past my uncle's house. The uncle I was helping lived a few houses down the street from the former Itasca Fire Chief.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

You couldn't possibly have posted anything more irresponsible, than blaming someone for the deaths of 254+ people, based on viewing a Youtube video.

Do you have an FAA Airman's Certificate? Do you know not all airplanes use "flaps" for takeoff? Do you know the circumstances when flaps aren't used?

The Straits Times logo

Air India plane crash draws attention to flaps and landing gear

epa12172316 Officials inspect the site of a plane crash near Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, western India, 12 June 2025. Air India flight AI171, bound for London carrying 242 passengers and crew members on board a Boeing 787-8 aircraft, crashed minutes after take-off in the Meghaninagar area of Ahmedabad.
Officials inspect the site of a plane crash near Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport in Ahmedabad, India, on June 12.PHOTO: EPA-EFE
UPDATED JUN 13, 2025, 06:45 AM

Video of the Air India jetliner that crashed into a neighbourhood points to potential anomalies that aviation safety authorities will examine to understand what caused the accident that killed at least 241 people.

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner appeared to not achieve sufficient thrust as it lumbered down nearly the full length of an 11,000-foot runway, a distance that should have been more than enough to take off, said Mr Bob Mann, head of aviation consultant RW Mann.

That could stem from a misconfiguration of the plane prior to takeoff or erroneous weight data entered into the plane’s computer system that determines how much power is needed to get off the ground, he said.

Mr Mann cautioned that his views were unofficial and not corroborated by data or cockpit voice recorders, which have yet to be recovered from the site.

“If the weight is high compared to the actual number, you end up with a very aggressive takeoff,” he said. “If the weight is low compared to the actual, you end up with not enough commanded power.”

The 787’s landing gear was never retracted, which normally occurs just after takeoff, said Mr Jeff Guzzetti, a former accident investigation chief for the US Federal Aviation Administration.

He also said he’d want to know more about whether the plane’s flaps – movable panels along the wing that generate additional lift during takeoff – were in the correct position, noting that it was possible those were raised mistakenly instead of the landing gear.


“You don’t see any smoke or fire or engines burping or anything like that. You don’t see any structural failure occurring,” Mr Guzzetti said. “It just appears the airplane was unable to climb once it got off the runway.”

That could be due to several reasons, he said, including the flaps being raised instead of the landing gear or improper programming of the flight control computer.

“We just don’t know at this time,” he said.

Mr Mann said the flaps appeared to be incorrectly positioned, adding that trying to belatedly adjust the flaps could lead to an aerodynamic stall.

[Bogie Shooter]

(For those that didn’t know, I didn’t)

The Straits Times (also known informally by its abbreviation ST) is a Singaporean daily English-language newspaper owned by the SPH Media Trust.Established on 15 July 1845, it is the most-widely circulated newspaper in the country and has a significant regional audience. The newspaper is published in the broadsheet format and online, the latter of which was launched in 1994. It is regarded as the newspaper of record for Singapore.

[Bassdeer]

They had an expert on crashes who thinks it might have been bad chemicals in the fuel . This was on CNN.

Yea, they have a great track record, let's go with that.

[elle123]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.
Maybe, the pilot had a stroke.

[Cliff Fr]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

Sabotage? They did just exchange shooting with Pakistan.

[La lamy]

I bet the survivor's miraculous survival will lead to his seat 11A being quite popular on that type of aircraft! There is something to be said for being next to an emergency exit!!!
I hope he doesn't have survivor's guilt like a lot of people in that circumstance experience. What a horrific tragedy.

[Joe C.]

It's Air India.
They don't have a good track record. Many of their planes are 2nd or 3rd hand leftovers. However, this one wasn't. Need to wait for whatever the black boxes reveal.

[talonip]

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth

[Sgt Ed]

How could an experienced pilot do that? Maybe a mechanical problem kept the flaps from extending. Then again there are indicators in the cockpit

[Bodrum]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.
The 787 as well as all modern airplanes have a warning system that goes off when the throttles are advanced, and the takeoff configurations are incorrect

[airstreamingypsy]

The plane was having electronic problems earlier that day. A passenger on the earlier flight posted a video showing him trying to use the touchscreen at his seat, and nothing was working. I don't know if that would have any connection to the crash, but if the pilot's electronics were also not working........ The black box will tell the tale.

[DonnaNi4os]

[As the widow of a pilot who died in a similar manner I can only say that it is too soon to judge. In my husband’s case the gust lock had been released for take off and the plane had the lift, so proving it was released. Once it took off and achieved elevation the gust lock malfunctioned preventing steering and the plane took a nose dive with a full tank of gas. It took a full year to determine the cause. My heart is breaking for the families that lost their loved ones. The only survivor is truly a miracle man. God clearly isn’t done with him yet.

[idlewild]

From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

[HappyTraveler]

..... cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error.
Here we go again running around making accusations based on miniscule information.

See link in Comment #8.

Let's wait and allow investigators to do their work rather than giving THE MEDIA too much credit for actually knowing about what they're reporting.

[kcrazorbackfan]

You couldn't possibly have posted anything more irresponsible, than blaming someone for the deaths of 254+ people, based on viewing a Youtube video.

Do you have an FAA Airman's Certificate? Do you know not all airplanes use "flaps" for takeoff? Do you know the circumstances when flaps aren't used?

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.

[nn0wheremann]

How could an experienced pilot do that?
Hubris?

[Velvet]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

You are not the first one to make this observation. People I know agree with this. We shall see if this was the cause and whether the cause was pilot or mechanical.

[Whatnext]

So many aeronautical experts. Post #21 has the answer.

[BrianL99]

The 787 as well as all modern airplanes have a warning system that goes off when the throttles are advanced, and the takeoff configurations are incorrect

From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.

You are not the first one to make this observation. People I know agree with this. We shall see if this was the cause and whether the cause was pilot or mechanical.

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth


Thank you, finally someone with a clue.

"It was the pilot's fault because I saw a video and his flaps weren't down" ? Why do people who don't have a clue how to fly an airplane, post such things? It boggles my mind.

You surely have way more logged time than me, but anyone who flies has heard plenty of "stupid pilot tricks". Fortunately, today's planes of that sort, make it unlikely a pilot is going to make a stupid mistake.

Anything is possible, but I doubt the investigation is going to show the Pilot screwed up, all by himself.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

The Mirror US
Expert spots terrifying warning sign moments before Air India Boeing plane crash

Aviation experts believe an issue with the wing flaps of an Air India plane that crashed in the Indian city of Ahmedabad may have played a role in the disaster.

Videos emerged of flight AI171 rapidly dropping shortly after taking off from the Ahmedabad airport and erupting into a fireball as it hit the ground. The plane crashed into a medical college hostel.

After reviewing footage of the crash, aviation analyst Geoffrey Thomas told the BBC that "the undercarriage is still down but the flaps have been retracted."


Thomas said the flaps were in line with the wing, which was quite unusual to happen this soon after take-off.

The undercarriage is normally retracted within 10-15 seconds, and the flaps are then retracted over a period of 10-15 minutes," he explained

Marco Chan, a former pilot and a senior lecturer at Buckinghamshire New University, told the outlet that the incident may "point to potential human error if flaps aren’t set correctly”


"But the resolution of the video is too low to confirm that," Chan added.

Another aviation expert, Terry Tozer, also highlighted an issue with the plane's wings.

"It's very hard to say from the video for sure, it doesn't look as if the flaps are extended and that would be a perfectly obvious explanation for an aircraft not completing its take off correctly," he told the BBC.

Tata Group, which owns the carrier, also said it will also cover the medical expenses of those injured.

"We are deeply anguished by the tragic event involving Air India Flight 171. No words can adequately express the grief we feel at this moment. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families who have lost their loved ones, and with those who have been injured," the company wrote on X.

"Tata Group will provide ₹1 crore to the families of each person who has lost their life in this tragedy. We will also cover the medical expenses of those injured and ensure that they receive all necessary care and support.

"Additionally, we will provide support in the building up of the B J Medical's hostel. We remain steadfast in standing with the affected families and communities during this unimaginable time."

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/198zn7TbWT/?mibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1AubpXmWqZ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16mq9Sojk5/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[Sgt Ed]

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue. You are assuming a whole lot by blaming the pilots. Let the accident board do their thing and do not second guess them.I take it you are an expert in these things.

[Tvflguy]

You are assuming a whole lot by blaming the pilots. Let the accident board do their thing and do not second guess them.I take it you are an expert in these things.

hmmm. After reviewing the post above yours with videos and such appears he is not the only guy.

[mikemalloy]

From the video it appears that the wheels were not retracted after takeoff. Not realizing what the problem was the crew may have lowered the flaps that compounded the problem.

[jimbomaybe]

Thank you, finally someone with a clue.

"It was the pilot's fault because I saw a video and his flaps weren't down" ? Why do people who don't have a clue how to fly an airplane, post such things? It boggles my mind.

You surely have way more logged time than me, but anyone who flies has heard plenty of "stupid pilot tricks". Fortunately, today's planes of that sort, make it unlikely a pilot is going to make a stupid mistake.

Anything is possible, but I doubt the investigation is going to show the Pilot screwed up, all by himself.
Reporters "report" and run to find an expert to quoit , I would think that any reputable expert would qualify their answer as speculation with the need to wait for the results of the investigation but a wait and see answer doesn't get band width

[New Englander]

I don't know why it crashed. But the accident investigators will find out exactly why this horrible thing happened. Oh, I feel so bad for everyone who died and also for their families.

[BrianL99]

You couldn't possibly have posted anything more irresponsible, than blaming someone for the deaths of 254+ people, based on viewing a Youtube video.

Do you have an FAA Airman's Certificate? Do you know not all airplanes use "flaps" for takeoff? Do you know the circumstances when flaps aren't used?

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed.

From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.


I have an FAA Airman's Certificate and Instrument Rated and have been for 30 years ... and owned 2 airplanes. Are you licensed to fly an airplane or are you just assuming you know everything about them, because you've been on one?

Flaps are not used 100% of the time. Anyone who thinks they are, doesn't understand flying. Are they typically used on departure by large airplanes? Yep, but not always.

"The first officer should have retracted the landing gear ..... "? Says who? Do you know who was flying the airplane? "Normal, routine takeoff"? According to whom? What was the Density Altitude? Cross winds? W/B? Runway length? Obstacles? Any NOTAMS in effect? Fuel load? What's the MTOW of that airplane?

There is no one alive, who knows that happened in that airplane. Amateurs making uneducated guesses, based on Youtube videos, is ridiculous.

The odds of an airline pilot not knowing if his flaps were in the configuration he wanted (or was required to use), is minuscule. The odds of accidentally raising flaps, while intending to raise the landing gear ... similarly rare. This airplane was departing with a 2 pilot crew, one with an ATP and both of them Type Rated in that airplane.

If it turns out this was "human error", it was "Pilots' error" ... 2 pilots were flying that airplane.

As a previous poster (an ATP) pointed out. It's fairly difficult for 2 pilots to make an error in departure configuration. There are enough bells, whistles and warnings in today's airliners, to drive a pilot nuts. What people don't understand, are the computers that control modern aircraft are not there to "help the pilots", it's the other way around. The Pilots are there to help the computers in case something goes wrong.

[Velvet]

Findings to date:

‘No detailed timeline of relevant actions and indicators. No verbatim cockpit transcript. Instead, their (India’s official crash investigators) seeming intention was to focus a global audience on two facts. The fuel supply switches for the plane’s two engines were manually turned off about one second apart, just seconds after the plane left the runway. As the report states without identifying the speakers: “In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so.”’
WSJ July15/25

[BrianL99]

Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat


From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.

You are not the first one to make this observation. People I know agree with this. We shall see if this was the cause and whether the cause was pilot or mechanical.

The Mirror US

Aviation experts believe an issue with the wing flaps of an Air India plane that crashed in the Indian city of Ahmedabad may have played a role in the disaster.

After reviewing footage of the crash, aviation analyst Geoffrey Thomas told the BBC that "the undercarriage is still down but the flaps have been retracted."
...

Marco Chan, a former pilot and a senior lecturer at Buckinghamshire New University, told the outlet that the incident may "point to potential human error if flaps aren’t set correctly”

"It's very hard to say from the video for sure, it doesn't look as if the flaps are extended and that would be a perfectly obvious explanation for an aircraft not completing its take off correctly," he told the BBC.



From the video it appears that the wheels were not retracted after takeoff. Not realizing what the problem was the crew may have lowered the flaps that compounded the problem.

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth

Findings to date:

The fuel supply switches for the plane’s two engines were manually turned off about one second apart, just seconds after the plane left the runway. As the report states without identifying the speakers: “In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so.”’

WSJ July15/25

No mention of "flaps". No mention of the airplane's take off configuration. No suggestion there was any pilot error. The most common of all airplane issues ... fuel starvation.

[Velvet]

The implication (from the full article) was towards pilot suicide, not error, if I am reading it correctly.

[BrianL99]

The implication (from the full article) was towards pilot suicide, not error, I am reading it correctly.

I'm not sure where that conclusion comes from. That would be a stupid way to commit "pilot suicide".

In 2018 there was a Boeing/FAA Advisory, to check the operation of the locking mechanism on the Fuel Switches. It was advisory in nature, not a requirement. Air India never checked the switches.

[Taltarzac725]

The implication (from the full article) was towards pilot suicide, not error, I am reading it correctly.

That looks more like mass murder than suicide.

[bmcgowan13]

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth

Pilot since 1975 and 34 years hard-labor at ZBW.

This is the best (and only) answer...

TALONIP--"How's the ride?"

[BrianL99]

Pilot since 1975 and 34 years hard-labor at ZBW.

This is the best (and only) answer...

TALONIP--"How's the ride?"

If you worked Boston Center for 30+ years, you undoubtedly know my brother & father. They were an ATC's best friend for many years, especially those at Boston Center who had separation errors :plane: :plane:

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

The fuel control switches are controlled 100% by the pilots. The Boeing design philosophy has always been "pilot first", which means, even on the 787, we ultimately control what happens. I was discussing the fuel control switches on a flight yesterday, there is no way both accidentally moved to the cutoff position. Even with a complete electrical failure, the switches still function as they should and the engines will continue to run. The airplane has 4 (6 if you count the APU) Generators, battery and the RAT.
Also... for those believing the controls were electronically taken over by a passenger 🤦You can't "hack" an airplane and take control of its systems... This isn't Hollywood.

[MorTech]

Maybe the pilot shut off the both fuel switches, 1 second apart, thinking he was retracting the landing gears :)

[Velvet]

A commercial pilot wouldn’t recognize a cut off switch?? We are not talking about an aging Hollywood star trying to fly his own plane.

[Taltarzac725]

A commercial pilot wouldn’t recognize a cut off switch?? We are not talking about an aging Hollywood star trying to fly his own plane.

One of the regular national news at 6:30 PM had a reporter who mentioned this would be the third time a pilot deliberately crashed his or her plane. Not counting 9-11.

Suicide by pilot - Wikipedia Suicide by pilot - Wikipedia (https://share.google/fRZXH4W6cBmADLUSe)


There seem to be more though.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

One of the regular national news at 6:30 PM had a reporter who mentioned this would be the third time a pilot deliberately crashed his or her plane. Not counting 9-11.

Suicide by pilot - Wikipedia Suicide by pilot - Wikipedia (https://share.google/fRZXH4W6cBmADLUSe)


There seem to be more though.

Yes that certainly appears to be the most likeliest reason. A huge “phew” at Boeing and GE. But certainly so sad if suicide is the case. Wonder what Indian culture is re suicide. And if background/psych/issues re the pilot’s will determine anything and made public. Idiotic way to take your life…. Att photo of the post-crash switch panel with fuel switches ON. And a photo of a standard panel.

[BrianL99]

Yes that certainly appears to be the most likeliest reason. A huge “phew” at Boeing and GE. But certainly so sad if suicide is the case. Wonder what Indian culture is re suicide. And if background/psych/issues re the pilot’s will determine anything and made public. Idiotic way to take your life…. Att photo of the post-crash switch panel with fuel switches ON. And a photo of a standard panel.

The speculation never ends.

[Velvet]

The speculation never ends.

Yep, and investigation also doesn’t end, not when 260 people died….

[Velvet]

Further update:

‘A black-box recording of dialogue between the flight’s two pilots indicates it was the captain who turned off switches that controlled fuel flowing to the plane’s two engines, according to people familiar with U.S. officials’ early assessment of evidence uncovered in the crash investigation.

The first officer who was flying the Boeing 787 Dreamliner asked the more-experienced captain why he moved the switches to the “cutoff” position after it climbed off the runway, these people said. The first officer expressed surprise and then panicked, these people said, while the captain seemed to remain calm.

A preliminary report of the probe released last week summarized the exchange but didn’t identify which pilot said what. The report, by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, said one pilot asked the other why he moved the switches, while the other denied doing so.’
WSJ July16/25

Wow!

[MorTech]

A commercial pilot wouldn’t recognize a cut off switch?? We are not talking about an aging Hollywood star trying to fly his own plane.

It was a joke...It is probably murder/suicide.

[BrianL99]

A commercial pilot wouldn’t recognize a cut off switch?? We are not talking about an aging Hollywood star trying to fly his own plane.

Attached is a photo of the Cockpit on a Boeing 787. Where's the cut off switch?

It was a joke...It is probably murder/suicide.

There are plenty of ways to crash an airplane. Shutting off the fuel supply on take off, wouldn't make my list of the Top 10.

[Taltarzac725]

Attached is a photo of the Cockpit on a Boeing 787. Where's the cut off switch?



There are plenty of ways to crash an airplane. Shutting off the fuel supply on take off, wouldn't make my list of the Top 10.

One pilot probably did not want the other one to be able to stop him in his murderous urge to take down the plane . So he lied about turning off the fuel.

[Bill14564]

Attached is a photo of the Cockpit on a Boeing 787. Where's the cut off switch?

Just below the throttles and labeled "Fuel Control" with a position labeled "Cutoff." A pilot rated to fly that plane, especially with passengers onboard, would certainly be familiar with its controls.


There are plenty of ways to crash an airplane. Shutting off the fuel supply on take off, wouldn't make my list of the Top 10.

"If I were a bank robber, I would have done it this way...." But I don't think like a bank robber which is why I am not a bank robber and why I have no idea what goes through the mind of a bank robber. What may make our Top 10 lists is completely irrelevant to what happened in the cockpit of that plane.

[Velvet]

The cut off switches look to me to the left of the flap selector - but I have never flown an 787.
The Air India captain has been treated for depression following the death of his mother in 2022. He was cleared to fly again. He was 56 years old with 15,000 hours of flight under his belt. He turned off both fuel switches 3 seconds after take-off.

[BrianL99]

The cut off switches look to me to the left of the flap selector - but I have never flown an 787.
The Air India captain has been treated for depression following the death of his mother in 2022. He was cleared to fly again. He was 56 years old with 15,000 hours of flight under his belt. He turned off both fuel switches 3 seconds after take-off.

Mary Schiavo should stop wasting her time and stop by TOTV for answers.

[Taltarzac725]

Mary Schiavo should stop wasting her time and stop by TOTV for answers.

There are often other possibilities but mass murder does look like the most probable. That's some computer glitch though if that is what it was. And I think that if it were anything but a very low chance of that being the case all the flights with that kind of software would be grounded.

[Velvet]

There are often other possibilities but mass murder does look like the most probable. That's some computer glitch though if that is what it was. And I think that if it were anything but a very low chance of that being the case all the flights with that kind of software would be grounded.

Sequence of events that seemed to be known so far… 3 seconds after take off, the captain, who is supervising the younger pilot actually flying the plane apparently turns off both fuel switches manually. The younger pilot panics and asks captain why did he do that? 10 seconds later the fuel switches are turned back on, we don’t know by who, but it is too late.

[Tvflguy]

look at post#51 for photo of switch locations and actual photo of the recovered (burnt) switch panel from crashed plane

[MorTech]

Attached is a photo of the Cockpit on a Boeing 787. Where's the cut off switch?



There are plenty of ways to crash an airplane. Shutting off the fuel supply on take off, wouldn't make my list of the Top 10.

Shutting off the fuel supply to both engines just after take off would be the very best way to crash an airplane in a ball of flame...Which is what happened according to flight data recorder. The switches were moved back to ON, but too late.

At the exact moment when the non-flying pilot would move to retract the landing gear, both fuel cutoff switches were toggled one second apart. The landing gear switch was never toggled.

Hmmm.

This is data analysis...Speculation is just speculation.

[Snakster66]

This video shows how the fuel switches are toggled. Certainly not something that can happen by accident.

https://fb.watch/AW2Gy_8KS6/?fs=e

[Bill14564]

This video shows how the fuel switches are toggled. Certainly not something that can happen by accident.

https://fb.watch/AW2Gy_8KS6/?fs=e

The physical switches cannot be moved by accident, at least not with the locking mechanism in place, but do the physical switches connect directly to the fuel supply? If those switches are just inputs to the software and the software controls the fuel supply then there is the possibility that the software could initiate a fuel cutoff without the switches ever moving. This would explain the pilots' statements as transcribed in the report.

Why did it take 10 seconds to switch back to run? Speculation: Perhaps noting that fuel supply was in a cutoff state even though the switches were in the run state, one of the pilots toggled the physical switches to cutoff, waited 10 seconds, then toggled them back to run.

More analysis of the recorders is needed to determine exactly what happened.

[Velvet]

I asked AI if there is any possibility that software could turn the fuel cut-off switches on or off.

AI Overview:
India orders airlines to check fuel switches on Boeing jets

No, the fuel cut-off switches (CHT/IFF) on a Boeing 787 are not designed to be controlled by software; they are manually operated by the pilots. While the 787 has sophisticated automation systems, the fuel control switches are physically separate and require a pilot's action to move them between "run" and "cutoff" positions.

My speculation:
What could also explain what happened is that the captain switches off both fuel switches. The pilot, flying the plane, is busy with maneuvers for taking off but notices and panics and asks, Why? The captain calmly answers that he didn’t. Notice, the captain has been told that the cutoff switches are off AND he stays calm. The pilot flying the plane in his panic does not change the flaps or retract the landing gear which we see in the video. The captain is in a position to take control, but does nothing. The pilot flying the plane, quickly turns back the fuel switches, but the damage has been done.

My guess is that Captain Sumeet Sabharwal has research this, ran a simulation on what happens and how soon after fuel is cut off, so he knew what was going to happen.

[Lottoguy]

The pilot turned off the fuel to the engines. Everything is on the voice recorder in the cockpit. Mass murder by pilot will soon be released to the press.

[BrianL99]

Shutting off the fuel supply to both engines just after take off would be the very best way to crash an airplane in a ball of flame...

At the exact moment when the non-flying pilot would move to retract the landing gear, both fuel cutoff switches were toggled one second apart. The landing gear switch was never toggled.
.

This video shows how the fuel switches are toggled. Certainly not something that can happen by accident.


A commercial pilot wouldn’t recognize a cut off switch?? We are not talking about an aging Hollywood star trying to fly his own plane.

From the video it appears that the wheels were not retracted after takeoff. Not realizing what the problem was the crew may have lowered the flaps that compounded the problem.

The pilot turned off the fuel to the engines. Everything is on the voice recorder in the cockpit. Mass murder by pilot will soon be released to the press.

Can I safely assume all expert commenters have a Pilot's License and have actually flown an airplane?

[Snakster66]

Can I safely assume all expert commenters have a Pilot's License and have actually flown an airplane?

Me posting a video showing how the cutoff switches operate is not a claim of expertise and does not require a pilot's license to see the mechanical operation can not be performed 'accidentally'. Spare us your condescension.

[Velvet]

Can I safely assume all expert commenters have a Pilot's License and have actually flown an airplane?

In my case, yes. But only Cessnas. Light planes, when I was learning to fly I couldn’t quite get the plane in the right position to tether it down, so I got out and pushed it into place. Much to the amusement of the people around.

[BrianL99]

In my case, yes. But only Cessnas.


No such thing.

[Velvet]

No such thing.

Then I suspect you can’t know about airplanes. This is the type of plane I learned on.

AI Overview
Cessna 150 vs 152 - Thrust Flight
The Cessna 150 is a two-seat, tricycle-gear general aviation airplane, popular for flight training, touring, and personal use. It was first introduced in 1959 and was known for its simplicity and forgiving flight characteristics. The Cessna 150 was produced until 1977, with over 23,000 aircraft manufactured. It was later succeeded by the Cessna 152.

[BrianL99]

Can I safely assume all expert commenters have a Pilot's License and have actually flown an airplane?

In my case, yes. But only Cessnas..

No such thing.

Then I suspect you can’t know about airplanes. This is the type of


There is no such thing as an FAA Airman's Certificate that only allows someone to fly a Cessna.

& I know about Cessna 150-152's, I landed one on the only FAA recognized Ice runway in the USA and have a few hours in a 150 Aerobat.

[Marathon Man]

Me posting a video showing how the cutoff switches operate is not a claim of expertise and does not require a pilot's license to see the mechanical operation can not be performed 'accidentally'. Spare us your condescension.

Well said.

[Velvet]

There is no such thing as an FAA Airman's Certificate that only allows someone to fly a Cessna.

& I know about Cessna 150-152's, I landed one on the only FAA recognized Ice runway in the USA and have a few hours in a 150 Aerobat.

Okay, I see what you mean.

[Velvet]

I think the real issue might be, is that it is very hard for a pilot or anyone to accept, that after all the hours of training, and years of indoctrination of how you are responsible for all on board - that is why the manual over-ride - that a captain, a senior pilot, in this case over 200 people looked up to, to protect - would take them to their death.

[Taltarzac725]

I think the real issue might be, is that it is very hard for a pilot or anyone to accept, that after all the hours of training, and years of indoctrination of how you are responsible for all on board - that is why the manual over-ride - that a captain, a senior pilot, in this case over 200 people looked up to, to protect - would take them to their death.

Very hard to comprehend why someone would do something like this. They will have to do a very deep dive on the probable suspect's medical history.

[MorTech]

Can I safely assume all expert commenters have a Pilot's License and have actually flown an airplane?

Why would that even matter? Does that license mean you know how to fly a 787? It is just simple data analysis from the flight data recorder. It doesn't take a "license"...just common sense and reasoning. The non-flying pilot retracts the landing gear since the flying pilot is laser focused at takeoff.

[BrianL99]

Why would that even matter? Does that license mean you know how to fly a 787? It is just simple data analysis from the flight data recorder. It doesn't take a "license"...just common sense and reasoning. The non-flying pilot retracts the landing gear since the flying pilot is laser focused at takeoff.
"I've never done it and don't know how to do it, but I know you what the Pilots did wrong and I know how".

"I've never flown an airplane, but I've read news reports and know how to analyze flight data recorder".

Common sense and reasoning?

2 ATP rated professional pilots have commented on the thread and offered professional opinions that contradict the amateur opinions being expressed. A professional aircraft safety investigator has been quoted as saying there's no evidence this was a "suicide" crash ... but that doesn't seem to deter the rampant speculation.

Only on TOTV.

[Bill14564]

"I've never done it and don't know how to do it, but I know you what the Pilots did wrong and I know how".

"I've never flown an airplane, but I've read news reports and know how to analyze flight data recorder".

Common sense and reasoning?

2 ATP rated professional pilots have commented on the thread and offered professional opinions that contradict the amateur opinions being expressed. A professional aircraft safety investigator has been quoted as saying there's no evidence this was a "suicide" crash ... but that doesn't seem to deter the rampant speculation.

Only on TOTV.

No, not only on TOTV. The "appeal to authority" and "ad hominem" logical fallacies occur many times outside TOTV also.

2 ATP rated professional pilots (I only noticed one in the thread) clearly have some expertise in flying a plane but unless they have engineered, programmed, maintained, or flown the 787 they don't necessarily have expertise in analyzing the cause of an incident. Beyond that, I don't believe even the one provided a professional opinion that contradicted anyone; he/she simply suggested we would learn more when the official investigation had concluded.

Conversely, the lack of a commercial license does not make one incapable of analyzing the available data. "Expert" is a word generally used to identify an individual with a certification or documented experience and while the awarding of a certificate is taken to be evidence of knowledge, the absence of a certificate does not prove a lack of knowledge. A picture of a cockpit was presented with the challenge to find the cutoff switch - that was actually very simple and doesn't require anything like an ATP rating. Underestimating another's knowledge (or overestimating one's own) is often a mistake.

[Velvet]

Further recent update:

The United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said on Friday that media reports on the reasons behind the Air India Boeing Dreamliner crash which killed 270 were speculative and premature.

And:

The AAIB (Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau | Ministry of Civil Aviation) is investigating the crash, the deadliest aviation incident in a decade, along with Boeing and experts from the US and United Kingdom. A preliminary report from the investigators released on Saturday found the aircraft had been deemed airworthy, had up-to-date maintenance and carried no hazardous cargo.

But the report noted that a 2018 US Federal Aviation Administration advisory warned of a potential flaw in the fuel-control switch system of some Boeing planes, including the Dreamliner. The report said Air India did not inspect the system and it was not mandatory for it to do so.

Aljazeera July17/25

I will, personally, withhold my conclusions about what happened on the flight. (I really, really hope it was not pilot caused.)

[Taltarzac725]

Further recent update:

The United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said on Friday that media reports on the reasons behind the Air India Boeing Dreamliner crash which killed 270 were speculative and premature.

And:

The AAIB (Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau | Ministry of Civil Aviation) is investigating the crash, the deadliest aviation incident in a decade, along with Boeing and experts from the US and United Kingdom. A preliminary report from the investigators released on Saturday found the aircraft had been deemed airworthy, had up-to-date maintenance and carried no hazardous cargo.

But the report noted that a 2018 US Federal Aviation Administration advisory warned of a potential flaw in the fuel-control switch system of some Boeing planes, including the Dreamliner. The report said Air India did not inspect the system and it was not mandatory for it to do so.

Aljazeera July17/25

I will, personally, withhold my conclusions about what happened on the flight. (I really, really hope it was not pilot caused.)

I would be a lot more worried about the safety on planes in India or traveling from India if this were some kind of mechanical problem rather than a human resource failure.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Just a matter of time that the assumed truth comes out. Not sure of the legal system in India. Imagine the lawsuits if this happened in USA with an American carrier.


From WA Post

Medical records for an Air India pilot killed in last month’s crash were reportedly turned over to investigators amid reports he’d been suffering from depression and other mental health issues.

Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, 56, was the lead pilot when the London-bound Boeing 787 Dreamliner went down in Ahmedabad on June 12, killing 241 people on board and leaving just one survivor.

Sabharwal, who had more than 15,000 flying hours under his belt at the time of the tragedy, had taken medical leave in recent years due to apparent mental health woes, the Telegraph reported.

[MorTech]

Another possibility is the pilots were distracted by the engines spinning down so they didn't call for gear up. The odds of two engines failing are astronomical but not zero.

[jimbomaybe]

Just a matter of time that the assumed truth comes out. Not sure of the legal system in India. Imagine the lawsuits if this happened in USA with an American carrier.


From WA Post

Medical records for an Air India pilot killed in last month’s crash were reportedly turned over to investigators amid reports he’d been suffering from depression and other mental health issues.

Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, 56, was the lead pilot when the London-bound Boeing 787 Dreamliner went down in Ahmedabad on June 12, killing 241 people on board and leaving just one survivor.

Sabharwal, who had more than 15,000 flying hours under his belt at the time of the tragedy, had taken medical leave in recent years due to apparent mental health woes, the Telegraph reported.
Some have suggested the possibility of an intentional act, depressed doesn't necessarily equate with being homicidal, but certainly being distracted

[Velvet]

Distracted? How could you pull on a switch to push it down for cut-off. Then a second later, pull on the other switch and push it down, and not realize what you are doing? Just curious.

[New Englander]

Maybe someday it will be possible "Black Box" will have video of what Pilots were doing during prior to a disasters like this.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Maybe someday it will be possible "Black Box" will have video of what Pilots were doing during prior to a disasters like this.

Totally agree. Absolutely zero reason why this can’t be policy. Some airlines have video of the cabin but don’t record. Good safety measure IMO. I would bet the Pilots union is/has protested a cockpit video system. Privacy. But it’s a workplace and that’s common in USA. So be it. But those that will not/cannot face facts re the India crash and that a pilot deliberately turned off both engines… can’t handle the truth.

[BrianL99]

The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway.


The Straits Times logo

Air India plane crash draws attention to flaps and landing gear

Mr Mann said the flaps appeared to be incorrectly positioned, adding that trying to belatedly adjust the flaps could lead to an aerodynamic stall.

The Mirror US

Expert spots terrifying warning sign moments before Air India Boeing plane crash

Aviation experts believe an issue with the wing flaps of an Air India plane that crashed in the Indian city of Ahmedabad may have played a role in the disaster.


But those that will not/cannot face facts re the India crash and that a pilot deliberately turned off both engines… can’t handle the truth.

So you've changed your mind? It wasn't the "flaps" and the improper configuration? Now it was Pilot turned off the engines?

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

So you've changed your mind? It wasn't the "flaps" and the improper configuration? Now it was Pilot turned off the engines?

New factual data reveals what all information from India investigators show. How long did it take you to go thru past posts? Bored? Complicated matters as this crash unfold slowly. Do you dispute the investigators initial review of the fuel switches and other data???