Did the USGA make a bad ruling in the US Open?

[SHIBUMI]

Well, time to open this one up. I think they did. And it took 2 of them to do it! Sam Burns was smart to ask for a second opinion but it did no good.

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen. His ball was in 1 1/2 inches of primary rough sitting up. Did anyone put a tee in the ground around the ball to see if there was a water level? Did anyone stand near the ball and see if it was squishy. Not sure but his ball was sitting atop grass that was water logged underneath as displayed by his shot.

So if you don't know the rules, don't feel so bad as the rules makers can make mistakes as well, more costly.

I think it was a bad call. what do you think?:Screen_of_Death:

[Taltarzac725]

Well, time to open this one up. I think they did. And it took 2 of them to do it! Sam Burns was smart to ask for a second opinion but it did no good.

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen. His ball was in 1 1/2 inches of primary rough sitting up. Did anyone put a tee in the ground around the ball to see if there was a water level? Did anyone stand near the ball and see if it was squishy. Not sure but his ball was sitting atop grass that was water logged underneath as displayed by his shot.

So if you don't know the rules, don't feel so bad as the rules makers can make mistakes as well, more costly.

I think it was a bad call. what do you think?:Screen_of_Death:

What happened with the shot?

[retiredguy123]

To clarify, it looks like the ball is in the fairway, not in the rough.

[SHIBUMI]

Ball in first rough cut


To clarify, it looks like the ball is in the fairway, not in the rough.

[SHIBUMI]

splash happens ball curves left uncharacteristically


What happened with the shot?

[justjim]

Tough break for Burns but who are we to say that the two rules officials were wrong. It’s water over the dam now. Fore.

[retiredguy123]

Ball in first rough cut
According to Golf.com and AI, the ball was in the fairway. Also, the videos seem to indicate the same.

The ruling was a judgement call and he got two opinions. I was satisfied with the ruling.

[SHIBUMI]

Ball was in fairway.........still don't agree with the call..splash,splash, officials should have done a tee test of area.............


According to Golf.com and AI, the ball was in the fairway. Also, the videos seem to indicate the same.

The ruling was a judgement call and he got two opinions. I was satisfied with the ruling.

[BrianL99]

I'm surprised the USGA didn't do an emergency post on TOTV, just to make sure they were making the right call.

The Rule requires "standing water" ... not "squishy ground".

"Temporary Water

Any temporary accumulation of water on the surface of the ground (such as puddles from rain or irrigation or an overflow from a body of water) that:

Is not in a penalty area, and

Can be seen before or after the player takes a stance (without pressing down excessively with his or her feet).

It is not enough for the ground to be merely wet, muddy or soft or for the water to be momentarily visible as the player steps on the ground; an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after the stance is taken."

[dtennent]

While I felt badly for Sam Burns, his play on other holes took him out of contention. JJ Spaun sunk an incredible putt on the last hole to win. After his terrible start for the day, what a great way to win!

[retiredguy123]

While I felt badly for Sam Burns, his play on other holes took him out of contention. JJ Spaun sunk an incredible putt on the last hole to win. After his terrible start for the day, what a great way to win!
For the record, Spaun made a long putt on the last hole to win by 2 strokes, so he didn't really need to make the putt. Burns lost by 5 strokes, and he was 8 over par on last round.

[SHIBUMI]

intended line of swing.......area around the ball if stepped on would have raised water
have to judge both ends......obviously they didn't around the ball

you could see the splash after he hit.........will send email address for TOTV to USGA for the next time

I'm surprised the USGA didn't do an emergency post on TOTV, just to make sure they were making the right call.

The Rule requires "standing water" ... not "squishy ground".

"Temporary Water

Any temporary accumulation of water on the surface of the ground (such as puddles from rain or irrigation or an overflow from a body of water) that:

Is not in a penalty area, and

Can be seen before or after the player takes a stance (without pressing down excessively with his or her feet).

It is not enough for the ground to be merely wet, muddy or soft or for the water to be momentarily visible as the player steps on the ground; an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after the stance is taken."

[Rwirish]

Bad break for Sam, right call.

[Mrfriendly]

Well, time to open this one up. I think they did. And it took 2 of them to do it! Sam Burns was smart to ask for a second opinion but it did no good.

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen. His ball was in 1 1/2 inches of primary rough sitting up. Did anyone put a tee in the ground around the ball to see if there was a water level? Did anyone stand near the ball and see if it was squishy. Not sure but his ball was sitting atop grass that was water logged underneath as displayed by his shot.

So if you don't know the rules, don't feel so bad as the rules makers can make mistakes as well, more costly.

I think it was a bad call. what do you think?:Screen_of_Death:

Although I belong to 18 country clubs here in Florida I don’t have my own caddy to rub my balls or have rules officials come out when I ask for clarification to better my ball position due to course conditions, I’ll put any prejudices against professional players on TV aside. I think Sam had to endure two bad calls by the officials.
And I’m sorry he got his feet wet.

[LoisR]

Squishyness doesn't count, unless your making sushi. You need to see it to believe it.

[mike234]

Well, time to open this one up. I think they did. And it took 2 of them to do it! Sam Burns was smart to ask for a second opinion but it did no good.

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen. His ball was in 1 1/2 inches of primary rough sitting up. Did anyone put a tee in the ground around the ball to see if there was a water level? Did anyone stand near the ball and see if it was squishy. Not sure but his ball was sitting atop grass that was water logged underneath as displayed by his shot.

So if you don't know the rules, don't feel so bad as the rules makers can make mistakes as well, more costly.

I think it was a bad call. what do you think?:Screen_of_Death:
gee, i musta missed that. i was busy watching the lpga.....i could not pronounce the winners name but it was exciting......N O T

[jedalton]

Well, time to open this one up. I think they did. And it took 2 of them to do it! Sam Burns was smart to ask for a second opinion but it did no good.

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen. His ball was in 1 1/2 inches of primary rough sitting up. Did anyone put a tee in the ground around the ball to see if there was a water level? Did anyone stand near the ball and see if it was squishy. Not sure but his ball was sitting atop grass that was water logged underneath as displayed by his shot.

So if you don't know the rules, don't feel so bad as the rules makers can make mistakes as well, more costly.

I think it was a bad call. what do you think?:Screen_of_Death:

agree, I think it cost him the tournament.

[jedalton]

it was ugly, a big duck hook left

[Regorp]

Well, time to open this one up. I think they did. And it took 2 of them to do it! Sam Burns was smart to ask for a second opinion but it did no good.

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen. His ball was in 1 1/2 inches of primary rough sitting up. Did anyone put a tee in the ground around the ball to see if there was a water level? Did anyone stand near the ball and see if it was squishy. Not sure but his ball was sitting atop grass that was water logged underneath as displayed by his shot.

So if you don't know the rules, don't feel so bad as the rules makers can make mistakes as well, more costly.

I think it was a bad call. what do you think?:Screen_of_Death:

Water under the bridge now. It was a terrible tournament for PGA fantasy golf, as I had my worst results ever. Very difficult course. Defending champion at 10 over misses cut. Wow!

[Bassdeer]

He fell apart anyway, tied for 7th and not because of that hole.

[Lancer]

All you Television rules officials. Unless you were there you don’t know what the USGA rules officials saw. This just got into his head and he fell apart.

[BrianL99]

So you all want to be armchair USGA Rules Officials?

Year you go.

Golf Rules Quiz Questions : USGA/R&A Exam Prep (https://www.therovingofficial.com/)

Practice up.

Want to work at the US Open as a USGA Rules Official?

Take the USGA Rules test. Volunteer for some local tournaments until you have enough experience to work a PGA sponsored local event. Do that for 5-10 years and maybe you can work up to being an assistant at a minor USGA event, like the Four Ball or Amateur Qualifying.

Work as a Rules Official at USGA minor events for another 5-10 years.

After 20+ years, if you've proven yourself to be one of the 50 or so best Rules Officials in the USA, you *might* get the chance to work at the US Open.

Thomas Pagel, who was in charge at the US Open (& all USGA events), has been a Rules Official for 24 years, 12 with the USGA. He has a fairly good grasp of the Rules of Golf.

I sent him an invitation to join TOTV.

[SHIBUMI]

unless Pagel was one of the two who made the call..........we don't want words we want the two who made the call to fess up......they would be welcome on TOTV


So you all want to be armchair USGA Rules Officials?

Year you go.

Golf Rules Quiz Questions : USGA/R&A Exam Prep (https://www.therovingofficial.com/)

Practice up.

Want to work at the US Open as a USGA Rules Official?

Take the USGA Rules test. Volunteer for some local tournaments until you have enough experience to work a PGA sponsored local event. Do that for 5-10 years and maybe you can work up to being an assistant at a minor USGA event, like the Four Ball or Amateur Qualifying.

Work as a Rules Official at USGA minor events for another 5-10 years.

After 20+ years, if you've proven yourself to be one of the 50 or so best Rules Officials in the USA, you *might* get the chance to work at the US Open.

Thomas Pagel, who was in charge at the US Open (& all USGA events), has been a Rules Official for 24 years, 12 with the USGA. He has a fairly good grasp of the Rules of Golf.

I sent him an invitation to join TOTV.

[Rainger99]

Obvious water was moved during his practice swings. But, when he took his stance no water was seen.


Isn’t that the answer??

“an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after your stance is taken”

[SHIBUMI]

ball was not, evidenced by wetness of divot after shot

Isn’t that the answer??

“an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after your stance is taken”

[bobmarc]

Bad call or not, Sam will still be going to the bank this week.

[Rainger99]

ball was not, evidenced by wetness of divot after shot

The rule states “an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after your stance is taken.”

It doesn't say anything about water after the shot or whether the divot was wet after the shot.

[SHIBUMI]

you take your stance with no water present at your feet, but your ball is sitting in a puddle of water! I dont think so, if you took a stance around the ball the water would have shown up, its not just your stance, its also the lie of the ball, and if someone says it was just squishy, then squishy denotes water.

None of the Golf Channel announcers commented on the ruling, too scared. The only comment was an admiration for Burns because he took it so well.......that implies he disagreed as well but backed off any critical remarks, for obvious reasons.


The rule states “an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after your stance is taken.”

It doesn't say anything about water after the shot or whether the divot was wet after the shot.