Morse and Chitty Chatty

[Rainger99]

I saw an article about upcoming traffic changes to Morse and Chitty Chatty. Apparently they are going to put in a directional median opening.

Does anyone have any details as to what that will be?? How will that impact people entering or leaving Chitty Chatty?

[Bill14564]

I saw an article about upcoming traffic changes to Morse and Chitty Chatty. Apparently they are going to put in a directional median opening.

Does anyone have any details as to what that will be?? How will that impact people entering or leaving Chitty Chatty?

In Feb they were talking about a roundabout but apparently plans have changed. See the minutes of the June 1O Commissioners meeting for the study and the way forward.

The drawing in Appendix C of the study on page 108 is probably what you are looking for.

[Normal]

Traffic right now builds up around11-2 at Morse and 44. It will be interesting to see what happens in the winter months and after the Walmart is done. Chitty Chatty and Sandalwood will have to suffer with the one choice flow. It will be nice for the Sandalwood residents because they have a close roundabout if they want to go North. Chitty Chatty wi ll have the arduous trek to Lake Deaton’s circle in order to go South.

[Rainger99]

In Feb they were talking about a roundabout but apparently plans have changed. See the minutes of the June 1O Commissioners meeting for the study and the way forward.

The drawing in Appendix C of the study on page 108 is probably what you are looking for.

Thanks. A very precise answer!

And a rather lengthy study - with sections on how the project will impact birds and snakes!

I am not a traffic engineer but It appears that if you are exiting Chitty Chatty and want to head south, that you will not be able to make a left turn. Instead, you will have to make a right turn and then will have to make a U turn.

For the directional median opening alternative, left-turn egress vehicles from Chitty Chatty Run would be required to make a right-turn egress and use the median opening on Morse Boulevard at Fire Station 47 to make a U-turn to travel south.

The price for a roundabout is $3,001,000 and the price for the directional median opening is "only" $196,000.

https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/26472?fileID=65100

[Bill14564]

...
I am not a traffic engineer but It appears that if you are exiting Chitty Chatty and want to head south, that you will not be able to make a left turn. Instead, you will have to make a right turn and then will have to make a U turn.

For the directional median opening alternative, left-turn egress vehicles from Chitty Chatty Run would be required to make a right-turn egress and use the median opening on Morse Boulevard at Fire Station 47 to make a U-turn to travel south.
...

I missed that part. I'm glad to see they stated it explicitly.

[Normal]

Thanks. A very precise answer!

And a rather lengthy study - with sections on how the project will impact birds and snakes!

I am not a traffic engineer but It appears that if you are exiting Chitty Chatty and want to head south, that you will not be able to make a left turn. Instead, you will have to make a right turn and then will have to make a U turn.

For the directional median opening alternative, left-turn egress vehicles from Chitty Chatty Run would be required to make a right-turn egress and use the median opening on Morse Boulevard at Fire Station 47 to make a U-turn to travel south.

The price for a roundabout is $3,001,000 and the price for the directional median opening is "only" $196,000.

https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/26472?fileID=65100

That is an option, but how pragmatic is it to wait till there is an opening there? The circle may be more efficient and expedited just to go a half mile up to the Deaton circle. Traffic won’t always be that light next to Waxman.

[Bill14564]

That is an option, but how pragmatic is it to wait till there is an opening there? The circle may be more efficient and expedited just to go a half mile up to the Deaton circle. Traffic won’t always be that light next to Waxman.

You're distance are a bit off.

It's about 2/10 mile from Chitty Chatty to the fire station.
It's 3/4 mile from Chitty Chatty to the stoplight at 44.
It's over a mile from Chitty Chatty to the circle at Kristine Way.

So, you drive less than a quarter mile and wait for an opening to take a U-turn at the fire station.

OR

You drive 3/4 mile to 44, wait for the light, drive another 1/4 mile to the roundabout, come back to 44, wait for the light, then drive 1/2 mile back to where you would have been if you had made the U-turn. Don't forget, they'll be adding another light on Morse for traffic exiting Walmart which you will also need to wait for... twice.

[Normal]

You're distance are a bit off.

It's about 2/10 mile from Chitty Chatty to the fire station.
It's 3/4 mile from Chitty Chatty to the stoplight at 44.
It's over a mile from Chitty Chatty to the circle at Kristine Way.

So, you drive less than a quarter mile and wait for an opening to take a U-turn at the fire station.

OR

You drive 3/4 mile to 44, wait for the light, drive another 1/4 mile to the roundabout, come back to 44, wait for the light, then drive 1/2 mile back to where you would have been if you had made the U-turn. Don't forget, they'll be adding another light on Morse for traffic exiting Walmart which you will also need to wait for... twice.

It’s a drive to the circle, but obviously a U-turn next to the new Walmart entrance may be optimistic too. Either way, it appears the county isn’t about to spend the money yet for a circle. We will all have to wallow in the mess till things sort themselves out. Right now Waxman (a stones throw) is a projected entryway for the new shopping center. I wonder if the fire station and safety may trump the whole situation in the long run. Only the naive would think traffic will lighten up at that entrance. Perhaps an additional light may be warranted.

[tophcfa]

So the consulting firm came up with three options, do nothing, a roundabout, or a directional median opening. Have they ever heard of something called a traffic light?

[Bill14564]

So the consulting firm came up with three options, do nothing, a roundabout, or a directional median opening. Have they ever heard of something called a traffic light?

A traffic light was taken off the table earlier (don't remember when, prior to Feb I believe) as not recommended due to traffic volume.

[tophcfa]

A traffic light was taken off the table earlier (don't remember when, prior to Feb I believe) as not recommended due to traffic volume.

Well, if traffic volume disqualifies a traffic light then they better get rid on the ones where Morse crosses 44, 466A, and 466?….

[Pugchief]

Well, if traffic volume disqualifies a traffic light then they better get rid on the ones where Morse crosses 44, 466A, and 466?….

The traffic volume on Chitty Chatty Way, not Morse.

And how exactly would a traffic circle work with a 45mph speed limit? The current plan makes the most sense, IMO.

[tophcfa]

The traffic volume on Chitty Chatty Way, not Morse.

And how exactly would a traffic circle work with a 45mph speed limit? The current plan makes the most sense, IMO.

Good point, I guess a much better comparison would be the traffic volume on San Marino or Rio Grand. Morse crosses both of those roads and there are traffic lights at both intersections. Also, there is a traffic circle (roundabout) where Morse meets El Camino Real, but there is a gate there to slow down the traffic before it enters the circle.

The problem with the current plan is that it doesn’t really help folks trying to take a left turn out of Chitty Chatty Way. They have the same problem as Villagers trying to turn left onto Morse coming out of the roads north of 466 other than San Marino and Rio Grand.

[Altavia]

The traffic volume on Chitty Chatty Way, not Morse.

And how exactly would a traffic circle work with a 45mph speed limit? The current plan makes the most sense, IMO.

When roundabouts were added to Central Parkway and Marshbend Trail, the 55 mph speed limit was reduced to 35 mph.

[Rainger99]

And how exactly would a traffic circle work with a 45mph speed limit? The current plan makes the most sense, IMO.

Isn’t there a roundabout just south of chitty chatty where Morse meets warm springs?

How does that work out?

Every roundabout that I have seen in the villages always has a speed limit sign slowing the speed limit to 20 mph.

[Normal]

When roundabouts were added to Central Parkway and Marshbend Trail, the 55 mph speed limit was reduced to 35 mph.

The traffic circles added to Central Parkway? There was no Central Parkway! It was created so the developer could slow down traffic and make the area residential. 470 was slight handedly converted over to residential. I guess there was a parallel for a short time. It used to be the throughway to 75. I guess you could say 470 and Central Parkway are one in the same? The county gained a big expense of several traffic circles? The developer got to ease rezoning in for profit?

[Worldseries27]

I thought my idea should have won out

[rsmurano]

I would never want to turn right, stop at the 44 light, then go around the roundabout to head south, stop at the 44 light again, then 15 mins after I turned right on Morse, I’m back to where I was in front of chitty chatty going south, and that would be on a good day without traffic. I’d move before I do this on a daily basis.
Put a light there, smart 1 with vehicle detection so you aren’t at a timed light like all other intersections here. 1 car waiting to turn left, the light would stay red on Morse for 20-30 seconds max.

[Normal]

I would never want to turn right, stop at the 44 light, then go around the roundabout to head south, stop at the 44 light again, then 15 mins after I turned right on Morse, I’m back to where I was in front of chitty chatty going south, and that would be on a good day without traffic. I’d move before I do this on a daily basis.
Put a light there, smart 1 with vehicle detection so you aren’t at a timed light like all other intersections here. 1 car waiting to turn left, the light would stay red on Morse for 20-30 seconds max.

I like the idea, but look how the myriad of traffic lights have screwed up highway 54 from route 75 in Wesley Chapel westward. Most take the Newport Richie highway now and have to go down to the Suncoast Highway to get to northern Tampa.

Route 54 is a good lesson in traffic light stops for any highway/civil engineer.

[jimkerr]

This sounds like a good solution. I know residents in Chitty Chatty were concerned with traffic accidents for people making a left turn out of there.

[Diane M]

So the consulting firm came up with three options, do nothing, a roundabout, or a directional median opening. Have they ever heard of something called a traffic light?
I agree. Can’t they explore using a traffic light that signals a stop with a sensor?

[VillagesDude]

I wonder if they’ll prohibit u-turns at the fire station so that intersection remains open. That will force persons trying to go southbound up to the circle past 44.

[Andyb]

They need a back door exit onto Hwy 44 east of Deaton Plaza from the Chitty Chatty/Sawgrass areas.

[CybrSage]

I wonder if they’ll prohibit u-turns at the fire station so that intersection remains open. That will force persons trying to go southbound up to the circle past 44.

Probably not. More likely they will put a flashing light that turns on when there is a fire emergency.
They have those in PA at least.
The most likely thing is they do nothing. People will probably stop for a fire truck with its light and siren on.

[JRcorvette]

I saw an article about upcoming traffic changes to Morse and Chitty Chatty. Apparently they are going to put in a directional median opening.

Does anyone have any details as to what that will be?? How will that impact people entering or leaving Chitty Chatty?

Morse blvd is already a nightmare both North and especially South in the Winter months. They are doing nothing to remedy it. When Wallyworld opens it will be one intersection to avoid.

[kingofbeer]

Morse blvd is already a nightmare both North and especially South in the Winter months. They are doing nothing to remedy it. When Wallyworld opens it will be one intersection to avoid.
I rented in Chitty Chatty for 3 months. Would not buy a house there. The exit from Chitty Chatty is horrible.Seems like no one cares about the Sandalwood Condos. Why don't they install a traffic light? Seems like the directional median opening will work as long as you can make a u-turn at the fire station.

[Ashley from UK]

And to put this into perspective. It’s currently quicker to get to/from Rohan from my house in Chitty Chatty by golf cart than it is by car.

These changes will also ensure that getting to Sawgrass and Eastport by car will become VERY time consuming options with U-Turns.

Fortunately though I don’t own a car in the US so this doesn’t impact me - although Groome may have something to say about it when they try to make airport runs.

What I most interested in though is the Walmarts that I can’t access because there’s no plans to get to it by golf cart… unless a route is determined through the marshes and a golf cart tunnel is put under Warm Springs - which again I expect is highly unlikely.

[golfing eagles]

And to put this into perspective. It’s currently quicker to get to/from Rohan from my house in Chitty Chatty by golf cart than it is by car.

These changes will also ensure that getting to Sawgrass and Eastport by car will become VERY time consuming options with U-Turns.

Fortunately though I don’t own a car in the US so this doesn’t impact me - although Groome may have something to say about it when they try to make airport runs.

What I most interested in though is the Walmarts that I can’t access because there’s no plans to get to it by golf cart… unless a route is determined through the marshes and a golf cart tunnel is put under Warm Springs - which again I expect is highly unlikely.

If history is any indication, the developer has never built golf cart access to businesses that don't rent from then, with the exception of the Lowe's/BJs adjacent to the historical side

[gobuck827]

I wonder if they’ll prohibit u-turns at the fire station so that intersection remains open. That will force persons trying to go southbound up to the circle past 44.

If they prohibit U-turns @ the fire station why wouldn't you just make one @ the new entrance to the Walmart or at the 44 intersection instead of going all the way to the round about?

[MplsPete]

Drivers who try to make a U turn at the fire station, and have a collision there, will have help very close.
(I suppose a No U Turn sign could mitigate that, but then people would simply drive into the fire station building area and make a turn around there.)

[Worldseries27]

probably not. More likely they will put a flashing light that turns on when there is a fire emergency.
They have those in pa at least.
The most likely thing is they do nothing. People will probably stop for a fire truck with its light and siren on.
maybe. After 9pm all bets are off

[Bill14564]

If history is any indication, the developer has never built golf cart access to businesses that don't rent from then, with the exception of the Lowe's/BJs adjacent to the historical side

Slight difference in that Walmart is being built on Villages property. I don't know if the Villages sold it to Walmart or if Walmart is leasing it but according to the sign that was on the corner (still is?), the land was being offered by the Villages and was golf cart accessible.

[Normal]

I rented in Chitty Chatty for 3 months. Would not buy a house there. The exit from Chitty Chatty is horrible.Seems like no one cares about the Sandalwood Condos. Why don't they install a traffic light? Seems like the directional median opening will work as long as you can make a u-turn at the fire station.

Too close to the light at 44 and Morse? If people are expected to U turn from Chitty Chatty, it’s an accident waiting to happen. Just like the golf cart crossing at Citrus Grove adjacent to the Sawgrass Bexley Circle.

[Altavia]

And to put this into perspective. It’s currently quicker to get to/from Rohan from my house in Chitty Chatty by golf cart than it is by car.

These changes will also ensure that getting to Sawgrass and Eastport by car will become VERY time consuming options with U-Turns.

Fortunately though I don’t own a car in the US so this doesn’t impact me - although Groome may have something to say about it when they try to make airport runs.

What I most interested in though is the Walmarts that I can’t access because there’s no plans to get to it by golf cart… unless a route is determined through the marshes and a golf cart tunnel is put under Warm Springs - which again I expect is highly unlikely.

It's a shame there is a public sidewalk along 44 you can't directly access from the Villages. (For obvious reasons...)

In theory if a bit of a walk is ok, the golf cart could be parked at Rohan and use the pedestrian crossing to walk over. Bring a folding rolling shopping cart.

https://a.co/d/bLQ3OjM

[SpartanMark]

Thanks. A very precise answer!

And a rather lengthy study - with sections on how the project will impact birds and snakes!

I am not a traffic engineer but It appears that if you are exiting Chitty Chatty and want to head south, that you will not be able to make a left turn. Instead, you will have to make a right turn and then will have to make a U turn.

For the directional median opening alternative, left-turn egress vehicles from Chitty Chatty Run would be required to make a right-turn egress and use the median opening on Morse Boulevard at Fire Station 47 to make a U-turn to travel south.

The price for a roundabout is $3,001,000 and the price for the directional median opening is "only" $196,000.

https://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/26472?fileID=65100
It's what we call a "Michigan Left". Lots of divided highways throughout the state have the same flow.

[Pugchief]

When roundabouts were added to Central Parkway and Marshbend Trail, the 55 mph speed limit was reduced to 35 mph.

That would be a real drag on traffic flow on Morse.

[Pugchief]

They need a back door exit onto Hwy 44 east of Deaton Plaza from the Chitty Chatty/Sawgrass areas.

Not a bad idea, except there's nowhere to put it.

[kansasr]

Slight difference in that Walmart is being built on Villages property. I don't know if the Villages sold it to Walmart or if Walmart is leasing it but according to the sign that was on the corner (still is?), the land was being offered by the Villages and was golf cart accessible.

That property is now owned by Walmart

[golfing eagles]

Slight difference in that Walmart is being built on Villages property. I don't know if the Villages sold it to Walmart or if Walmart is leasing it but according to the sign that was on the corner (still is?), the land was being offered by the Villages and was golf cart accessible.

You must be right, after all those Villages Greenhouses are right there

[kcrazorbackfan]

Traffic right now builds up around11-2 at Morse and 44. It will be interesting to see what happens in the winter months and after the Walmart is done. Chitty Chatty and Sandalwood will have to suffer with the one choice flow. It will be nice for the Sandalwood residents because they have a close roundabout if they want to go North. Chitty Chatty wi ll have the arduous trek to Lake Deaton’s circle in order to go South.

Chitty Chatty residents will probably turn around at the stoplight that will be added on Warm Springs there where an entrance to WalMart will be.

[Pugchief]

Chitty Chatty residents will probably turn around at the stoplight that will be added on Warm Springs there where an entrance to WalMart will be.

No idea what you are referring to; Warm Springs is nowhere near where the Walmart is going in....

[Normal]

Chitty Chatty residents will probably turn around at the stoplight that will be added on Warm Springs there where an entrance to WalMart will be.

I’m not sure where you are talking about. Waxman will be the entrance to Walmart off of Morse. It’s located between Villages Grown and Walmart but a light can’t go in there. There is a traffic light literally a couple hundred yards from the intersection. Two lights in succession for such a short distance would be a traffic nightmare.

[Bill14564]

I’m not sure where you are talking about. Waxman will be the entrance to Walmart off of Morse. It’s located between Villages Grown and Walmart but a light can’t go in there. There is a traffic light literally a couple hundred yards from the intersection. Two lights in succession for such a short distance would be a traffic nightmare.

The diagrams on pages 25 and 26 of the report would seem to indicate otherwise. And yes, that will likely make the traffic issues at 44 even worse.

[tophcfa]

If history is any indication, the developer has never built golf cart access to businesses that don't rent from then, with the exception of the Lowe's/BJs adjacent to the historical side

That access wasn’t put in so Villagers could get to the retail establishments, it’s there so Villages residents can get to important medical facilities/offices on the other side of the infamous gate with no little red button. Access to the retail establishments is a bonus windfall to Villagers living in the area. The developer wanted to block off that access to prevent non Villagers from bursting the bubble, but after a revolt they instead put in the gate that can only be opened with a Villages issue gate card. It’s not an unusual occurrence for the gate to forcefully become compromised by non Villagers who feel that they are entitled to access despite not being ammenity fee paying residents.

[Rainger99]

but a light can’t go in there. There is a traffic light literally a couple hundred yards from the intersection. Two lights in succession for such a short distance would be a traffic nightmare.


Like the light at Morse and San Marino and the one at Morse and Rio Grande?

[Ashley from UK]

They need a back door exit onto Hwy 44 east of Deaton Plaza from the Chitty Chatty/Sawgrass areas.

Big problem with this is that Chitty Chatty borders the west bound 44 lane so we would still be no better off, in fact we’d be far worse off as U-turning on 44 is even more dangerous.

[Worldseries27]

big problem with this is that chitty chatty borders the west bound 44 lane so we would still be no better off, in fact we’d be far worse off as u-turning on 44 is even more dangerous.
borders the east bound lane. Do be careful.

[Ashley from UK]

I saw an article about upcoming traffic changes to Morse and Chitty Chatty. Apparently they are going to put in a directional median opening.

Does anyone have any details as to what that will be?? How will that impact people entering or leaving Chitty Chatty?


Looking at the proposed plans the author has included a fraudian slip.... refer to the plans in Appendix C eg. the author is anticipating a car crash!!!!

Debate in CC is that the proposed option is the worst idea... maybe that was the intent all along. Actually the only financially viable option is to do nothing for now.

In 2022 there was only one crash at the junction and one in 2023. In 2024 there were 4 (per the report, page 5). Two crashes were just before the CC junction and two after. So let's see if this increases once Walmarts opens, and then re-assess... Which in reality, is potentially the best option for now.

So lets think of the practicality of the recomended solution here. A person exiting Chitty Chatty must, from 0MPH accelerate to 45MPH, cross into the fast lane and hit the brakes as they arrive at the Fire Station entrance to perform a U Turn in just 0.19 miles (1017 feet).... And nobody is expecting an increase in accidents here? No disrespect - but lets face it... most residents are old and their reaction times are not those of a teenager at a drag strip....

Oh one other point to mention is that CC residents have no feeder lane in the proposed plans, and the speed limit on this section is 45 MPH (reality its far higher). So residents will need to accelerate and wheel spin out the junction to reach the 55MPH (min) that everyone else will be doing at the section of the road...

Hence refer again to the proposed plans in section C of the report... has the car on Warm Springs stopped to let out a CC resident (location of 2 accidents in 2024) or will it hit the accelerating CC resident after they have exited from CC (location of 2 accidents in 2024)? What's the stopping distance of a car doing 55 MPH when it sees the CC resident who has just exited CC?

[nmgirardot]

It's what we call a "Michigan Left". Lots of divided highways throughout the state have the same flow.


Very common here in Michigan and not a big deal. They work quite well.

[Worldseries27]

very common here in michigan and not a big deal. They work quite well.
they work well when you have the time and distance to safely approach them . As ashley of the uk correctly points out less than a fifth of a mile from a zero start and crossing over 2 lanes is mission impossible for some cruisers

[Normal]

they work well when you have the time and distance to safely approach them . As ashley of the uk correctly points out less than a fifth of a mile from a zero start and crossing over 2 lanes is mission impossible for some cruisers

How will the traffic backups already occurring be solved? Most of us have been at the Kristine Way/ Morse circle waiting a couple of lights because of the jam caused directly by the circle. And many of us have experienced the northbound Morse jam at 44 / Morse to at least the fire station.

If there was additional traffic due to the additional desire for vehicles to go to the Walmart, how bad could it get? Additionally, what about winter traffic? The academic geometry calculations don’t necessarily pan out as pragmatic reality. What about the Warm Springs/Morse traffic flow change? Will more people be going northward now from the Fenney Marshbend area? The Continental CC will be impacted for those who use 44.

A plus, less Villager traffic will go eastbound on 44 towards Thomas to patron the Walmart off of 27. Also there is certainty that Bexley circle will swell with traffic due to new residential development.

[Altavia]

I’m not sure where you are talking about. Waxman will be the entrance to Walmart off of Morse. It’s located between Villages Grown and Walmart but a light can’t go in there. There is a traffic light literally a couple hundred yards from the intersection. Two lights in succession for such a short distance would be a traffic nightmare.

The planning shows addition of lights on main entrances on Morse and a second on 44 at the western entrance. 0.3 & 0.5 mi respectfully from the Morse/44 intersection.

[tombpot]

The first thing I was told when buying a home in The Villages, make sure you can exit from your Village into a roundabout or a stop light.

[Normal]

The planning shows addition of lights on main entrances on Morse and a second on 44 at the western entrance. 0.3 & 0.5 mi respectfully from the Morse/44 intersection.

Yes, and traffic already backs up to those intersections before Walmart even opens. Imagine waiting for each light when no one is going nowhere. Maybe widening or adding lanes needs to be done soon? 44 will eventually need widened anyway. It’s a matter of time before Morse needs the same.

[SusanStCatherine]

I read that The Villages Grown greenhouses will be relocated to a more northern location. This may make southern access to the new Walmart easier.

[CybrSage]

maybe. After 9pm all bets are off

Would you refuse to stop for a fire truck with its lights and sirens on? Do you know anyone who would refuse to stop for it?
If the answer to both is no, then what basis is there to claim others will do it, but only after 9pm?

[CybrSage]

Debate in CC is that the proposed option is the worst idea... maybe that was the intent all along. Actually the only financially viable option is to do nothing for now.


What did they say when you told them this at one of the many town halls? Curious what their answer was.

[CybrSage]

Yes, and traffic already backs up to those intersections before Walmart even opens. Imagine waiting for each light when no one is going nowhere. Maybe widening or adding lanes needs to be done soon? 44 will eventually need widened anyway. It’s a matter of time before Morse needs the same.

If the traffic already backs up at those intersections, then stop lights will not change the backup. They will allow others to safely enter the road, though, reducing the likelihood of an accident.
That is the entire purpose of a stop light - to allow access onto congested roads without having to force your way in.

[Altavia]

If the traffic already backs up at those intersections, then stop lights will not change the backup. They will allow others to safely enter the road, though, reducing the likelihood of an accident.
That is the entire purpose of a stop light - to allow access onto congested roads without having to force your way in.

Look like the analysis expects significant traffic to bypass the Morse/44 intersection using Waxman via the new traffic lights?

[VApeople]

The first thing I was told when buying a home in The Villages, make sure you can exit from your Village into a roundabout or a stop light.

No one told us that but we figured it out by ourselves.

That is why we bought a house in Osceola Hills 9 years ago.

[Altavia]

I read that The Villages Grown greenhouses will be relocated to a more northern location. This may make southern access to the new Walmart easier.

Walmart may be just the start. The Villages Map seems to show a lot of commercial development pre-planning for that corner.

[VApeople]

In my opinion, the best solution for the Chitty Chatty and Morse intersection is to simply put in a traffic light.

I doubt TV will do it because will be admitting that TV was stupid to build Chitty Chatty like it is.

[Ashley from UK]

It’s not TV problem. It’s Sumter County

[Ashley from UK]

What did they say when you told them this at one of the many town halls? Curious what their answer was.

It’s the current topic of debate and n CC.

[Marathon Man]

In my opinion, the best solution for the Chitty Chatty and Morse intersection is to simply put in a traffic light.

I doubt TV will do it because will be admitting that TV was stupid to build Chitty Chatty like it is.

I doubt it, also. Especially since TV does not add traffic lights to county roads.

[Ashley from UK]

Would you refuse to stop for a fire truck with its lights and sirens on? Do you know anyone who would refuse to stop for it?
If the answer to both is no, then what basis is there to claim others will do it, but only after 9pm?

And here lies the next problem

Chat GBT states ….

🚫 Florida State Law Applies Statewide

According to Florida Statutes § 316.1945(1)(b)5:

“No person shall stand or park a vehicle … within 20 feet of the driveway entrance to any fire station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to any fire station within 75 feet of such entrance (when property signposted).” 

“This includes U‑turns, which inherently involve standing momentarily—which is explicitly prohibited.

Additionally, general traffic guidelines reinforce the restriction:
• “No person shall make a U‑turn in front of the driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station. No person shall use the driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station for the purpose of turning a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction”

Also reference statute 316.1515. While it does not specifically prohibit u-turns at a fire station (or anywhere else, for that matter), it can be assumed it comes down to how the officer writes the ticket. If you do a search, the AI bots say u-turns in front of a fire station are not allowed in Florida. A citation would be written to say that doing so impeded the movement of rescue apparatus.

So the question is why did the company commissioned
To undertake the report recommend doing a U Turn at the fire station as the preferred option?

[VApeople]

I doubt it, also. Especially since TV does not add traffic lights to county roads.

There is a traffic light at the intersection of St. James and Bailey Trail. That light was already in place when we moved here in 2016. I suspect the light was put in after TV realized the intersection was unsafe.

[Pugchief]

There is a traffic light at the intersection of St. James and Bailey Trail. That light was already in place when we moved here in 2016. I suspect the light was put in after TV realized the intersection was unsafe.

I think you meant St. Charles....

[Altavia]

There is a traffic light at the intersection of St. James and Bailey Trail. That light was already in place when we moved here in 2016. I suspect the light was put in after TV realized the intersection was unsafe.

And there are at least two lights (so far...) on Central Parkway.

[Bill14564]

And here lies the next problem

Chat GBT states ….

🚫 Florida State Law Applies Statewide

According to Florida Statutes § 316.1945(1)(b)5:

“No person shall stand or park a vehicle … within 20 feet of the driveway entrance to any fire station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to any fire station within 75 feet of such entrance (when property signposted).” 

“This includes U‑turns, which inherently involve standing momentarily—which is explicitly prohibited.

Additionally, general traffic guidelines reinforce the restriction:
• “No person shall make a U‑turn in front of the driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station. No person shall use the driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station for the purpose of turning a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction”

Also reference statute 316.1515. While it does not specifically prohibit u-turns at a fire station (or anywhere else, for that matter), it can be assumed it comes down to how the officer writes the ticket. If you do a search, the AI bots say u-turns in front of a fire station are not allowed in Florida. A citation would be written to say that doing so impeded the movement of rescue apparatus.

So the question is why did the company commissioned
To undertake the report recommend doing a U Turn at the fire station as the preferred option?

I don’t see any mention of a U-turn in 316.1945, did you add that yourself? Stopping to wait for traffic, whether making a turn or in a long line, is not standing (the action prohibited by the statute).

The company recommended it as the most logical and appropriate means of dealing with traffic that needs to go south.

[VApeople]

I think you meant St. Charles....

Yeah, I don't know why I always get confused with the name of that street.

[Cdj1040]

No, we will NOT drive to the Lake Deaton circle to go south. Our only choice is to continue to drive north to the fire station and turn around there. We are very angry about the poor planning and increased traffic that the new southern developments have caused. If a roundabout is too expensive as we were told, there should be a stop light. Traffic on Morse goes much faster than the speed limit. Very angry about this. QUOTE=Normal;2441520]Traffic right now builds up around11-2 at Morse and 44. It will be interesting to see what happens in the winter months and after the Walmart is done. Chitty Chatty and Sandalwood will have to suffer with the one choice flow. It will be nice for the Sandalwood residents because they have a close roundabout if they want to go North. Chitty Chatty wi ll have the arduous trek to Lake Deaton’s circle in order to go South.[/QUOTE]

[Pugchief]

We are very angry about the poor planning and increased traffic that the new southern developments have caused. If a roundabout is too expensive as we were told, there should be a stop light. Traffic on Morse goes much faster than the speed limit. Very angry about this.

Did you not know this when you bought your house? If not, could it be anticipated? Traffic on Morse south of 44 has a 45mph speed limit. It has always (AFAIK) been this way. New building brings new traffic. And new retail. Look at the growth on 466A over the last 3 years. We knew it was coming. Not if, but when. Traffic is more congested there than it was 3 years ago, and will prob get worse as more retail goes in.

There will be similar down south as the growth occurs there. If you thought the area you bought would be static forever, it would have mad more sense to purchase in one of the older, more established areas where major changes are more difficult. Even then, no guarantees.