Good news, bad news for golfers

[BrianL99]

Mr. Shibumi has been offering some golf swing advice, most of it very good in my opinion, but ...

If you're 65+ there's not much chance your technique or swing is going to improve all that much. If you're shooting 90's+, you're never going to shoot your age without moving up to the Green Tees.

The best way for the average 90+ golfer to lower their score, isn't a better golf swing or better technique, it's better course management.

Here are my course management rules for the average senior 85+ shooters.

1. Throw away your Driver if it's more than 42" long and less than 13-14 degrees Loft. Get a good 3 wood and use it off the Tee.

2. Don't ever hit a 3 wood off the fairway. Never, ever, ever. Hit a hybrid or iron and keep it in the fairway.

3. Don't aim at a Pin if you're more than 50 yards away .... aim at the middle of the Green or aim to avoid bunkers and/or water.

4. If you have a Lob Wedge, don't use it if you're more than 30-40 yards from the pin ... too hard to control.

5. If you have a "clean, tight lie", do NOT use a Sand Wedge ... use a Gap Wedge or Pitching Wedge with less bounce.

6. Do NOT Putt if there's any grass longer than Green or Fringe length grass between you and the pin.

7. Any putt more than 6' is a "distance putt", not an "aim putt".

8. Forget what "Par" is and aim to play a hole in the fewest strokes.

9. If you get into a bunker, get it out in one shot, even if you have aim away from the pin.

10. If you hit in the deep rough, hit a wedge back onto the fairway. Every time.


Good course management (at the expense of your ego), will improve your scores faster than 5 lessons with Butch Harmon.

[justjim]

OP, you make some good suggestions for older golfers carrying 85+ - 90+ handicaps. Older golfers moving up a couple of tee boxes is especially a good idea. Playing with clubs that fit your game is especially important IMHO. It’s a bit costly to make the change (like senior shafts) etc. but you have the opportunity to play better with clubs that fit your game. When you get older and have certain physical challenges, having fun playing golf is more important than your score. Fore!

[Old Traveller]

I hired a personal trainer years ago to help my golf game. He taught me to be selective about which muscles to strengthen and which muscles that would hurt my golf game if strengthened. He also helped me with the right muscles to stretch. Tight hamstrings, back muscles and hip flexors do the most damage. Every muscle can be stretched and at every age. I know it hurts and that's the most common reason why my fellow Village golfers won't stretch. But, their lack of flexibility really hurts their game. Add that to your list.

[Papa_lecki]

Brian - thoughts on replacing irons with hybrids as we age?

[Whatnext]

Plus. It's usually one more club than you think it is.
Courses very rarely put bunkers at the back of greens. Too long can be your friend.

[BrianL99]

Brian - thoughts on replacing irons with hybrids as we age?

I replaced my 5 Iron with a Hybrid, today!

I've had both in my bag for the last month or so and today I took out the 5 Iron. Hit once today and hit it awful.

I didn't play with any hybrids (or a 3 wood), until up 10-12 years ago. 1st I added a 3 wood, got rid of my 1 Iron and replaced my 3 iron with a hybrid. About 5 years ago, replaced my 4 iron with a hybrid. Today, I replaced my 5 Iron.

I keep hearing about guys on Tour using 7 Woods, but I opted for a very small hybrid, that I can get at the ball when it's in deep rough.

I've read that Freddy Couples is playing with all Hybrids, up to his 6 Iron. Probably the most famous Hybrid user, was Dana Quigley. Dana made about $13M on the Senior Tour and by the time he quit playing, he was using Hybrids up to 7 Iron. (Your browser is not supported | usatoday.com (https://golfweek.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2006/09/30/2006-hybrid-surge-creates-new-mix/76778645007/))

I'm now carrying 3 hybrids ... a 19 degree, 22 degree & 25 degree.

I think anyone who's not carrying a couple of hybrids or high-lofted woods, is unnecessarily handicapping himself.

[BrianL99]

I hired a personal trainer years ago to help my golf game. He taught me to be selective about which muscles to strengthen and which muscles that would hurt my golf game if strengthened. He also helped me with the right muscles to stretch. Tight hamstrings, back muscles and hip flexors do the most damage. Every muscle can be stretched and at every age. I know it hurts and that's the most common reason why my fellow Village golfers won't stretch. But, their lack of flexibility really hurts their game. Add that to your list.

My list was about "course management", not physical fitness.

As for "stretching", that's a load of balogna in my opinion. I'm about the least flexible person on earth. I have never ... not once ... done any "stretching". I get out of my car, walk to the 1st Tee and hit my drive. I've shot between 71 & 75 from 6300 yards, my last 4 rounds. Significantly better than I was shooting 5-6 years ago.

I'm sure stretching is beneficial and probably helps prevent injuries, but if anyone thinks stretching is going to improve their golf game, I have a bridge I'm interested in selling.

Did you happen to get a gander of the guy who just won the Rocket Mortgage? He can barely bend over to tie his shoes.

[thevillages2013]

You are talking Potgieter when we were discussing pot gutted old geezers!

[Rwirish]

There is no doubt stretching helps tremendously. To think otherwise is foolish.

[BrianL99]

There is no doubt stretching helps tremendously. To think otherwise is foolish.


Really?

Show me once piece of independent data that confirms "stretching" improves course management.

[Firebuffette]

I don’t know anything about golf. I’m taking lessons in August for the first time. My husband has been playing for 50 years. He can’t help me.
That being said, I’m thoroughly enjoying the banter between all of you. Thank you
Happy 4th of July.

[SaucyJim]

If you're 65+ there's not much chance your technique or swing is going to improve all that much.

Using a number for the cutoff? So someone 64 and 11 months of age that’s obese and smokes two packs a day is better-suited to improve their swing than someone 65 and one month that is at a healthy weight, never smoked, and still runs half marathons?

Come on, man!!

[SHIBUMI]

All good stuff............ my wife is 75........ I moved her up to the friendly tees.......she shot 1 under par the other day with 4 birdies.......what a load of fun she had, you still have to make shots no matter what the tees.

When we get teamed up, I play blues, and at 74 I can still hit it 270 with the driver, the ego's of the other players makes them play blues and they cant break 100, I try to get them to move up based on their driver distance in the fairway not in the rough, but, egos are egos, eventually they move up.........sage advice:bowdown:


Mr. Shibumi has been offering some golf swing advice, most of it very good in my opinion, but ...

If you're 65+ there's not much chance your technique or swing is going to improve all that much. If you're shooting 90's+, you're never going to shoot your age without moving up to the Green Tees.

The best way for the average 90+ golfer to lower their score, isn't a better golf swing or better technique, it's better course management.

Here are my course management rules for the average senior 85+ shooters.

1. Throw away your Driver if it's more than 42" long and less than 13-14 degrees Loft. Get a good 3 wood and use it off the Tee.

2. Don't ever hit a 3 wood off the fairway. Never, ever, ever. Hit a hybrid or iron and keep it in the fairway.

3. Don't aim at a Pin if you're more than 50 yards away .... aim at the middle of the Green or aim to avoid bunkers and/or water.

4. If you have a Lob Wedge, don't use it if you're more than 30-40 yards from the pin ... too hard to control.

5. If you have a "clean, tight lie", do NOT use a Sand Wedge ... use a Gap Wedge or Pitching Wedge with less bounce.

6. Do NOT Putt if there's any grass longer than Green or Fringe length grass between you and the pin.

7. Any putt more than 6' is a "distance putt", not an "aim putt".

8. Forget what "Par" is and aim to play a hole in the fewest strokes.

9. If you get into a bunker, get it out in one shot, even if you have aim away from the pin.

10. If you hit in the deep rough, hit a wedge back onto the fairway. Every time.


Good course management (at the expense of your ego), will improve your scores faster than 5 lessons with Butch Harmon.

[dtennent]

While I agree with many of the points raised here on course management, I have found that lessons have improved my game tremendously. (Watching all the videos on the internet doesn’t compare with having a good teacher watch you.) However, I practice different aspects of the game a lot. Everyone once in a while, I go back for a tune up. Does it cost money? Yes, but getting better makes the game more enjoyable - unless all you want to do is drink beer. In that case, put the money into a good beer cooler.

[Duppman]

Brian - thoughts on replacing irons with hybrids as we age?I just got new clubs after a working with a master fitter (I'm 68). I've been a hybrid fan for many years, but after looking at launch angles and carry, I replaced the hybrids with woods. I now carry a 3,5,7 and 9 wood. The $100 investment in the fitting was worth every penny.

[BrianL99]

When we get teamed up, I play blues, and at 74 I can still hit it 270 with the driver
:

If I could hit it 270, I'd be playing the Champion's Tour.

I can carry it 220 with a good swing, usually 210-215.

I’ve played with 1 over 70 year old in TV, that can hit 250+. He hits balls at Palmer, most every day (name begins with “Ca”). He can hit it 50 yards past me … I stilled cleaned his clock when we’ve been paired up.

[Bay Kid]

I put my 3 wood on time out.

[Tyson]

Im 78 and have been playing 48 inch drivers for over 35 years. Thats the only thing i disagree with.

[tophcfa]

There is no doubt stretching helps tremendously. To think otherwise is foolish.

I try to swim for at least 30 minutes before a round of golf. Swimming every stroke for a few minutes is like a complete body stretch. I almost never play well when I can’t fit in a swim before a round. Practically all of my best scores are posted after a good swim.

Also, the only wood I carry is a driver. The next longest club in my bag is a 3 hybrid and I carry 3-6 hybrids.

[lawgolfer]

I don’t know anything about golf. I’m taking lessons in August for the first time. My husband has been playing for 50 years. He can’t help me.
That being said, I’m thoroughly enjoying the banter between all of you. Thank you
Happy 4th of July.


Excellent plan! I doubt that golf lessons by your husband will harm your marriage. At the same time, I'm pretty certain that they will not help your golf game.

When you search for an instructor, look for one who uses a video camera so you can see what he/she is saying you are doing wrong or right. Golf instructors speak a language that they understand, but is unintelligible to other humans (i.e."you need to drop the club into the slot on the downswing"). Most beginners are embarrassed to question the instructor to learn what he/she means so that they understand what they are to do.

The learning rate/retention rate from seeing something is much higher than only being told something.

Subject to my own advice about the language, make sure that you come away from the instruction with four things that are the keys to a good golf swing.

1. Have a strong grip. The "V's formed by the thumb and forefinger of each hand should point to your right shoulder when the clubhead is behind the ball and you are ready to swing.

2. Keep your left arm/left elbow straight. When you let your left elbow bend, you change the radius of the swing and make it harder to get the head of the club back to where it needs to be to hit the ball squarely. Also, a stiff left elbow is the key to a powerful swing. The language which you will not understand is that you "collapse your left side" when you bend your left elbow during the swing.

3. Learn to "shift your weight" (strange language) from your left side to your right side (for right-handed players) during the backswing and downswing. For some players, this comes naturally. They are a small minority!

4. Learn to have a smooth, controlled swing so you make solid, square, contact with the ball.

If your instructor doesn't teach you these four things, look for another instructor.

[Hape2Bhr]

[QUOTE

I’ve played with 1 over 70 year old in TV, that can hit 250+. He hits balls at Palmer, most every day (name begins with “Ca”). He can hit it 50 yards past me … I stilled cleaned his clock when we’ve been paired up.[/QUOTE]

The grass on Palmer's range was so thin I have been going to Glenview's range (much prefer grass to mats at either). Has the grass condition improved on Palmer's range in the last 5/6 weeks?

[SHIBUMI]

Flexibility is important unless your a hands and wrist player. They can be very effective and don't need much flexibility. For the body hitters, even the swimmer, here are some stretching tips,

1. stretch your hands, squeeze a rubber ball daily-you can only swing the club as fast as your grip allows

lie on your bed:

1. without a pillow turn your head as far right as you can and hold for 2 minutes
then turn it left as far as can hold for 2 minutes( 1minute if first time)
this stretches your neck muscles, very important

2. take your right arm and reach left as far as you can over the top of your chest, hold for 2 minutes repeat with left arm, this stretches your shoulder muscles, very important

3. bring you right leg up bent at the knee, wrap your left leg over it and pull it down left as far as you can, hold for 2 minutes, repeat with left knee pulling it right, hold for 2 minutes

Your goal is to do 3 routines of the above 3 for a total of 18 minutes or cut it in half for 1 minute of holding or a total of 9 minutes

Do this before every round, not time consuming, and do it before you hit golf balls on the range or take a golf lesson.

Let's call this dry land swimming...........your strengthening your grip, your stretching your neck muscles, your stretching your shoulder muscles and your stretching your hip flexors, thats what happens when you swim as well.........do this before every round of golf and you will swing better
important muscles not tight, scoring is a whole other issue as the OP recommends

with compliments, Shibumi



I try to swim for at least 30 minutes before a round of golf. Swimming every stroke for a few minutes is like a complete body stretch. I almost never play well when I can’t fit in a swim before a round. Practically all of my best scores are posted after a good swim.

Also, the only wood I carry is a driver. The next longest club in my bag is a 3 hybrid and I carry 3-6 hybrids.

[SHIBUMI]

Lessons from your husband WILL hurt your game and relationship. As soon as you learn he doesn't know what he is doing you will get mad. They don't call scotch doubles tournaments the Divorce Open for nothing.

All pro's like teachers have different methods. Find one you understand and learn the basics first. Stay away from video at the beginning, you will only notice your hair, your weight, and your clothing co-ordination. Too depressing a way to start.

Do not take group lessons, you will learn at a very very slow pace. One on One with a teacher you can relate to.

Also, don't listen to other golfers, they have a different feel system and thought system than you. Learn your own and you will have it forever, use theirs, and you will find another in a short period of time.

Whats good for the goose aint good for the gander. Get one on one lessons unless you are lonely!

compliments, Shibumi. :coolsmiley:

Remember how you had bad teachers in school, you just couldn't relate to them. Teachers are not good or bad you either communicate with them or you don't. If you don't then keep searching.


QUOTE=lawgolfer;2443283]Excellent plan! I doubt that golf lessons by your husband will harm your marriage. At the same time, I'm pretty certain that they will not help your golf game.

When you search for an instructor, look for one who uses a video camera so you can see what he/she is saying you are doing wrong or right. Golf instructors speak a language that they understand, but is unintelligible to other humans (i.e."you need to drop the club into the slot on the downswing"). Most beginners are embarrassed to question the instructor to learn what he/she means so that they understand what they are to do.

The learning rate/retention rate from seeing something is much higher than only being told something.

Subject to my own advice about the language, make sure that you come away from the instruction with four things that are the keys to a good golf swing.

1. Have a strong grip. The "V's formed by the thumb and forefinger of each hand should point to your right shoulder when the clubhead is behind the ball and you are ready to swing.

2. Keep your left arm/left elbow straight. When you let your left elbow bend, you change the radius of the swing and make it harder to get the head of the club back to where it needs to be to hit the ball squarely. Also, a stiff left elbow is the key to a powerful swing. The language which you will not understand is that you "collapse your left side" when you bend your left elbow during the swing.

3. Learn to "shift your weight" (strange language) from your left side to your right side (for right-handed players) during the backswing and downswing. For some players, this comes naturally. They are a small minority!

4. Learn to have a smooth, controlled swing so you make solid, square, contact with the ball.

If your instructor doesn't teach you these four things, look for another instructor.[/QUOTE]

[SHIBUMI]

The older you get and the slower your swing speed the harder it is to hit a 3- wood off the ground. Even tougher for women even though their 3 woods are actually the loft of 5 wood. You need speed. Unless you hit it off the tee, let is grow cobwebs.

compliments, Shibumi. :bowdown:
I put my 3 wood on time out.

[SHIBUMI]

used to be called Boom Boom because of his long drives. Today they just call him boom. Hybrids are the answer to a decrease in swing speed.



I replaced my 5 Iron with a Hybrid, today!

I've had both in my bag for the last month or so and today I took out the 5 Iron. Hit once today and hit it awful.

I didn't play with any hybrids (or a 3 wood), until up 10-12 years ago. 1st I added a 3 wood, got rid of my 1 Iron and replaced my 3 iron with a hybrid. About 5 years ago, replaced my 4 iron with a hybrid. Today, I replaced my 5 Iron.

I keep hearing about guys on Tour using 7 Woods, but I opted for a very small hybrid, that I can get at the ball when it's in deep rough.

I've read that Freddy Couples is playing with all Hybrids, up to his 6 Iron. Probably the most famous Hybrid user, was Dana Quigley. Dana made about $13M on the Senior Tour and by the time he quit playing, he was using Hybrids up to 7 Iron. (Your browser is not supported | usatoday.com (https://golfweek.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2006/09/30/2006-hybrid-surge-creates-new-mix/76778645007/))

I'm now carrying 3 hybrids ... a 19 degree, 22 degree & 25 degree.

I think anyone who's not carrying a couple of hybrids or high-lofted woods, is unnecessarily handicapping himself.

[SHIBUMI]

is an important part of the equation and many good thoughts here.

However, it assumes you can control the golf ball, thats called a golf swing.

Put the two together and you have utopia.

Really?

Show me once piece of independent data that confirms "stretching" improves course management.

[BrianL99]

Im 78 and have been playing 48 inch drivers for over 35 years. Thats the only thing i disagree with.

Good for you, if you can swing it!

I'm sure most of the players you play with, have trouble with a Driver. Up north I play regularly with a guy who's 75 and can hit it 40-50 yards past me, with his 48" Driver. You have to be silky smooth to do it.

[BrianL99]

[QUOTE

I’ve played with 1 over 70 year old in TV, that can hit 250+. He hits balls at Palmer, most every day (name begins with “Ca”). He can hit it 50 yards past me … I stilled cleaned his clock when we’ve been paired up.

The grass on Palmer's range was so thin I have been going to Glenview's range (much prefer grass to mats at either). Has the grass condition improved on Palmer's range in the last 5/6 weeks?[/QUOTE]

I'm up north, so I haven't been to either in a couple of months. Glenview is always in much better condition than Palmer. I obviously don't know the number, but I'd bet that Palmer does 5 times the ranger business, that Glenview does. In season, the Palmer range is 100% full, all day every day. I only play Glenview once a week, but I've never seen it "full" since I've been in The Villages.

[Bay Kid]

Get "Harvey Penick's The Little Red Book". Great mental lessons.

[1golfergal]

she'd better be posting those score if you all ever compete in anything!!!!

[Rocksnap]

Really?

Show me once piece of independent data that confirms "stretching" improves course management.
Stretching improves accuracy. Accuracy improves course management. I’ve gained on average 10 strokes after I started stretching. This old battered body ain’t what it used to be. Stretching works for me.

[tophcfa]

Get "Harvey Penick's The Little Red Book". Great mental lessons.

I prefer the book by John Daly - “Golf my own Dam Way”.