New construction - only single stage HVAC systems are available

[ttodd]

There's been lots of discussions on some other threads about the benefits of dual stage or variable speed HVAC systems and I was pretty sold on this idea. I did just learn that as of Jan 2025, the only option is the Carrier Performance 15 Single Stage system.

This decision appears to be driven by EPA mandate which requires a phase-out of HFC refrigerants (like R-410A) in favor of newer, lower-global-warming-potential (GWP) refrigerants—beginning in 2025.

As of January 1, 2025, manufacturers will no longer be able to produce new HVAC systems that use R-410A. The two most common replacements are expected to be:
* R-32 and
* R-454B

So in anticipation of the potential for supply issues during this transition period, it seems that TV just simply decreed that these variable speed units are just not going to be offered.

However - when Iook at the website for Sunshine AC, these units are absolutely available. It's my understanding that systems with the old R-401A refrigerant can still be installed in 2025 as long as the system was manufactured prior to 2025.

Hopefully the powers that be will soon again allow for more upgraded systems to be become available.

[retiredguy123]

There's been lots of discussions on some other threads about the benefits of dual stage or variable speed HVAC systems and I was pretty sold on this idea. I did just learn that as of Jan 2025, the only option is the Carrier Performance 15 Single Stage system.

This decision appears to be driven by EPA mandate which requires a phase-out of HFC refrigerants (like R-410A) in favor of newer, lower-global-warming-potential (GWP) refrigerants—beginning in 2025.

As of January 1, 2025, manufacturers will no longer be able to produce new HVAC systems that use R-410A. The two most common replacements are expected to be:
* R-32 and
* R-454B

So in anticipation of the potential for supply issues during this transition period, it seems that TV just simply decreed that these variable speed units are just not going to be offered.

However - when Iook at the website for Sunshine AC, these units are absolutely available. It's my understanding that systems with the old R-401A refrigerant can still be installed in 2025 as long as the system was manufactured prior to 2025.

Hopefully the powers that be will soon again allow for more upgraded systems to be become available.
Question - Is Sunshine installing the old R-410A refrigerant in their variable speed systems, or the newer refrigerants? If they are installing systems that were manufactured last year or even before that, I don't blame The Villages for not offering systems that were manufactured more than a year ago. They are selling new houses.

Personally, I would want the latest refrigerant regardless of what type of system I purchased.

[jrref]

There's been lots of discussions on some other threads about the benefits of dual stage or variable speed HVAC systems and I was pretty sold on this idea. I did just learn that as of Jan 2025, the only option is the Carrier Performance 15 Single Stage system.

This decision appears to be driven by EPA mandate which requires a phase-out of HFC refrigerants (like R-410A) in favor of newer, lower-global-warming-potential (GWP) refrigerants—beginning in 2025.

As of January 1, 2025, manufacturers will no longer be able to produce new HVAC systems that use R-410A. The two most common replacements are expected to be:
* R-32 and
* R-454B

So in anticipation of the potential for supply issues during this transition period, it seems that TV just simply decreed that these variable speed units are just not going to be offered.

However - when Iook at the website for Sunshine AC, these units are absolutely available. It's my understanding that systems with the old R-401A refrigerant can still be installed in 2025 as long as the system was manufactured prior to 2025.

Hopefully the powers that be will soon again allow for more upgraded systems to be become available.

Just curious, where did you get this information? I know that you can get the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed variable speed unit because a neighbor just had one installed this week. Four of us had them installed in the past couple of weeks. Also, I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to install an old R410 system after 1/1/2025. There is no reason why the Villages would be preventing you from paying the extra money if you wanted that system unless they are making some bulk deals with the HVAC companies doing their install.

[retiredguy123]

Just curious, where did you get this information? I know that you can get the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed variable speed unit because a neighbor just had one installed this week. Four of us had them installed in the past couple of weeks. Also, I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to install an old R410 system after 1/1/2025. There is no reason why the Villages would be preventing you from paying the extra money if you wanted that system unless they are making some bulk deals with the HVAC companies doing their install.
Here is the latest EPA rule for installing R-410A systems:

For R-410A Systems (like split systems): December 31, 2025. However, the EPA issued an Interim Final Rule allowing installation of these systems until January 1, 2026, if they were manufactured before January 1, 2025.
For R-410A Products (like self-contained units): December 31, 2027.

[jrref]

Here is the latest EPA rule for installing R-410A systems:

For R-410A Systems (like split systems): December 31, 2025. However, the EPA issued an Interim Final Rule allowing installation of these systems until January 1, 2026, if they were manufactured before January 1, 2025.
For R-410A Products (like self-contained units): December 31, 2027.

Thanks for the information but I don’t believe any of the companies installing for the Villages has a large stock of heat pumps built before 2025 sitting In a warehouse specifically for the new builds but who knows? Anything is possible. All I can tell you is when several of us replaced our units using Sunshine, regardless of the model, the units came from one of Carrier’s distribution to Sunshine. Then once the unit was physically there and inspected, the installation was set up.

[ttodd]

Just curious, where did you get this information? I know that you can get the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed variable speed unit because a neighbor just had one installed this week. Four of us had them installed in the past couple of weeks. Also, I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to install an old R410 system after 1/1/2025. There is no reason why the Villages would be preventing you from paying the extra money if you wanted that system unless they are making some bulk deals with the HVAC companies doing their install.

I don't doubt that they are available - I see them listed on the Sunshine AC website. What I am refering to is the options that are available for new construction. My sales rep told me that the ONLY option is the single stage system. When I pressed her further on this - she went back to talk to the people on the design team (the people setting all the options on new builds). They told her
"It's not that we don't want to offer them, because we did when they were available. The HVAC companies are not manufacturing them right now, due to government changes on 1/1/25 to change refrigerants"

Now clearly that above statement isn't correct - there is some miscommunication or misunderstanding there as these thing are clearly available. They must have anticipated some supply hiccups with this new rule regarding refrigerant change and tried to simplify things by only making one type of unit available.

I am hoping to have them reconsider this policy ASAP as I need to finalize everythign on the week of July 28.

[retiredguy123]

Sunshine can install anything they want as replacement equipment. But, if I am buying a new house, I want the latest equipment with the latest refrigerant, not something that is grandfathered in.

[jrref]

Sunshine can install anything they want as replacement equipment. But, if I am buying a new house, I want the latest equipment with the latest refrigerant, not something that is grandfathered in.

Agree totally 100%

[jrref]

I don't doubt that they are available - I see them listed on the Sunshine AC website. What I am refering to is the options that are available for new construction. My sales rep told me that the ONLY option is the single stage system. When I pressed her further on this - she went back to talk to the people on the design team (the people setting all the options on new builds). They told her
"It's not that we don't want to offer them, because we did when they were available. The HVAC companies are not manufacturing them right now, due to government changes on 1/1/25 to change refrigerants"

Now clearly that above statement isn't correct - there is some miscommunication or misunderstanding there as these thing are clearly available. They must have anticipated some supply hiccups with this new rule regarding refrigerant change and tried to simplify things by only making one type of unit available.

I am hoping to have them reconsider this policy ASAP as I need to finalize everythign on the week of July 28.
I agree, something is not right and I’m glad you are pursuing it. I can’t tell you that of all the systems we had installed in the last couple weeks. They’re all built in June of this year. It says so on the label. One of my neighbors who just moved into his house in Osceola Hills had the existing system replaced because of a condenser coil leak. He met with Sunshine on Friday and on Tuesday of the following week. He had a carrier infinity, green speed, variable speed system installed. No wait so they are available. Please let us know what happens with your situation.

And thinking about what you were telling us further it’s possible that The Villages doesn’t want to change the design paperwork on your new house to accommodate this change. Similar to when people try to add a room or stretch a garage., etc,, The Villages isn’t doing this anymore for new builds like they used to. Maybe that’s the problem and if so, I’d fight that like crazy.

[jimkerr]

I’d be happy with the latest. You’ll have less issues to worry about down the road.

[Rocksnap]

Sunshine can install anything they want as replacement equipment. But, if I am buying a new house, I want the latest equipment with the latest refrigerant, not something that is grandfathered in.
I’ll take a variable speed system any day of the week over a single speed system. No matter the refrigerant used. The house is far more comfortable with them. I would not have built when the time came if variable wasn’t available.

[ZPaul]

The variable speed units will have a lower operating cost. Cycle on and off less resulting in more consistent temperature. Dislike getting a discontinued refrigerant, but expect it to continue to be available for reasonable life of units, or a substitute will be made.
Are the variable speed units not available with the new refrigerant or is it that the "contractor grade" units are not yet available? Contractor grade units are sold to developers at a lower cost than the retail product but generally have inferior construction. Since most developers put in the cheapest stuff regardless of efficiency, producing contractor grade equivalents of more expensive units may not be a priority for Carrier.

[srswans]

The Villages action to stop offering variable speed systems is likely a risk mitigation decision. That is, the supply chain for the new refrigerant systems may not be able to do timely deliveries at the moment due to this new regulation. TV is all about building to a strict schedule.

[jrref]

The Villages action to stop offering variable speed systems is likely a risk mitigation decision. That is, the supply chain for the new refrigerant systems may not be able to do timely deliveries at the moment due to this new regulation. TV is all about building to a strict schedule.

But all new systems afte 1/1/25 no matter which model use the new refrigerant.. The basic and variable speed systems also take about the same amount of refrigerant so that's not the reason.

[HJBeck]

They are buying builder grade HVAC systems and get Hugh discounts due to the bulk quantity. If they were to buy one at a time, special order units their discounts would be severely reduced. Their installers are trained for garden variety installs not the suffisticated units you are after. Their argument about the refrigerants makes no sense. How come the private installers can get whatever you want with whatever refrigerant that is mandated by law. This issue is purely a I don’t want to vs a can’t do. JUST MY OPINION!

[NavyNJ]

There's been lots of discussions on some other threads about the benefits of dual stage or variable speed HVAC systems and I was pretty sold on this idea. I did just learn that as of Jan 2025, the only option is the Carrier Performance 15 Single Stage system.

This decision appears to be driven by EPA mandate which requires a phase-out of HFC refrigerants (like R-410A) in favor of newer, lower-global-warming-potential (GWP) refrigerants—beginning in 2025.

As of January 1, 2025, manufacturers will no longer be able to produce new HVAC systems that use R-410A. The two most common replacements are expected to be:
* R-32 and
* R-454B

So in anticipation of the potential for supply issues during this transition period, it seems that TV just simply decreed that these variable speed units are just not going to be offered.

However - when Iook at the website for Sunshine AC, these units are absolutely available. It's my understanding that systems with the old R-401A refrigerant can still be installed in 2025 as long as the system was manufactured prior to 2025.

Hopefully the powers that be will soon again allow for more upgraded systems to be become available.


Not sure about any of the Refrigerant rules or issues……..but the one thing you did in this post, and that many of the replies are doing, is mixing up the numbers of “Stages” in a unit, in other words, how the unit actually is built to cool a space, with the “Speed” of a unit’s motor, which is normally “Single Speed” or “Variable Speed”. Newer and more efficient (SEER rating) units are usually Variable Speed, but you can still find decently efficient Single Speed units around. For the Fla climate, variable speed is probably a better choice. Good luck in any case!!

[Joecooool]

There's been lots of discussions on some other threads about the benefits of dual stage or variable speed HVAC systems and I was pretty sold on this idea. I did just learn that as of Jan 2025, the only option is the Carrier Performance 15 Single Stage system.

This decision appears to be driven by EPA mandate which requires a phase-out of HFC refrigerants (like R-410A) in favor of newer, lower-global-warming-potential (GWP) refrigerants—beginning in 2025.

As of January 1, 2025, manufacturers will no longer be able to produce new HVAC systems that use R-410A. The two most common replacements are expected to be:
* R-32 and
* R-454B

So in anticipation of the potential for supply issues during this transition period, it seems that TV just simply decreed that these variable speed units are just not going to be offered.

However - when Iook at the website for Sunshine AC, these units are absolutely available. It's my understanding that systems with the old R-401A refrigerant can still be installed in 2025 as long as the system was manufactured prior to 2025.

Hopefully the powers that be will soon again allow for more upgraded systems to be become available.
100% of the time you are told something is or isn't available its because what ever they are putting in front of you is what they make the most money on.

We ordered the upgraded stainless steel appliances, but they installed the bottom-of-the-barrel Home Depot crap in the house. We were charged about three times what we could have paid had we sourced the appliances ourselves.

The AC unit they put in our 2,200 sqft home is an absolute joke. It's only a 3-ton unit that pretty much runs ALL DAY LONG. In Florida, the rule of thumb for AC is one ton per 500 sq ft. We expect that this undersized unit will destroy itself in a couple of years, and then we will be installing a correctly sized 5-ton unit.

For those of you building a new home, don't buy any of the upgrades. They use the cheapest materials and charge through the roof. Buy the basics that you want and can't add later - extensions for example - then go buy quality stuff once the home is built.

We were in the house less than a week before the "upgraded" stove and dishwasher were put to the curb, the fridge was placed in the garage, and new high-quality appliances were delivered.

[Joecooool]

Just curious, where did you get this information? I know that you can get the Carrier Infinity Greenspeed variable speed unit because a neighbor just had one installed this week. Four of us had them installed in the past couple of weeks. Also, I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to install an old R410 system after 1/1/2025. There is no reason why the Villages would be preventing you from paying the extra money if you wanted that system unless they are making some bulk deals with the HVAC companies doing their install.

LOL, that is exactly what is happening.

[Joecooool]

Thanks for the information but I don’t believe any of the companies installing for the Villages has a large stock of heat pumps built before 2025 sitting In a warehouse specifically for the new builds but who knows? Anything is possible. All I can tell you is when several of us replaced our units using Sunshine, regardless of the model, the units came from one of Carrier’s distribution to Sunshine. Then once the unit was physically there and inspected, the installation was set up.My garage door openers just installed in my new home have 2023 serial numbers.

[jrref]

My garage door openers just installed in my new home have 2023 serial numbers.

That's different. Devices like that are often made in bulk.

Think about it. Let's say for example, the Villages is working with Sunshine, SunKool and other's who are doing the new builds. It's almost 7 months now since 1/1/2025 and the Villages probably has built and or finished 1,000+ homes since January. It seems unlikely they would have purchased and stored all those systems on the hunch there would be a supply chain issue. And why would they need to lay out all that money if they didn't have to?

Something just doesn't make sense. Either the Villages, as someone said, is selling units they make the most on or they don't want to spend the money on changing the standard paperwork.

If it were me and I was told I couldn't get the system I wanted because of some "BS" reason the Villages gave me, I would call Sunshine or SunKool for example and ask them if it's possible. Given the fact that I know of several friends who moved into Middleton in the past year or two who got the Carrier Infinity upgrade and we know of several existing homeowners like myself and my neighbors who got systems in the past couple of weeks from Sunshine no problem, and now all of a sudden you can't get it tells you something is not right.