Officials want to review ‘excessive use’ of guest passes in The Villages

[Normal]

The guest passes review workshop is coming up.

https://www.**************.com/2025/09/10/officials-want-to-review-excessive-use-of-guest-passes-in-the-villages/

“Excessive use of Villages guest passes sparked discussion at a meeting Wednesday of the Amenity Authority Committee.

A review recommending revised fees and operating policies related to recreation, community watch and facilities in The Villages is scheduled for completion this fall.

The review will recommend additional ways to offset operating and maintenance costs…..”

This will be a great way to keep our amenity fees in check! Let the first 20 passes be free and then charge an additional 10 dollars for each pass after that in a given year. The additional funds required to take care of guests could be used to keep our amenity fees from climbing.

[biker1]

The amenities' fee automatically increases by the CPI on the anniversary of when your home was first sold.

The guest passes review workshop is coming up.

https://www.**************.com/2025/09/10/officials-want-to-review-excessive-use-of-guest-passes-in-the-villages/

“Excessive use of Villages guest passes sparked discussion at a meeting Wednesday of the Amenity Authority Committee.

A review recommending revised fees and operating policies related to recreation, community watch and facilities in The Villages is scheduled for completion this fall.

The review will recommend additional ways to offset operating and maintenance costs…..”

This will be a great way to keep our amenity fees in check! Let the first 20 passes be free and then charge an additional 10 dollars for each pass after that in a given year. The additional funds required to take care of guests could be used to keep our amenity fees from climbing.

[tophcfa]

The guest passes review workshop is coming up. Let the first 20 passes be free and then charge an additional 10 dollars for each pass after that in a given year. The additional funds required to take care of guests could be used to keep our amenity fees from climbing.

I like the idea. How many residents, who aren’t running a short term rental business out of their home, would need more than 20 guest passes per year. We typically get about 6-8 passes per year, and have never needed more than 10.

[Bill14564]

The amenities' fee automatically increases by the CPI on the anniversary of when your home was first sold.

And the number of people in the pool does not affect the price of chlorine or replacement ACs or roofs or lawn maintenance or…

[tophcfa]

And the number of people in the pool does not affect the price of chlorine or replacement ACs or roofs or lawn maintenance or…

Not true, have you ever gone in a pool after two hours of water volleyball being played on four courts. The water is so cloudy you can’t see more than a few feet underwater through swim goggles. The number of people might not affect the price of chlorine, but more is certainly needed (or the chlorinators that convert salt into chlorine need to run harder). Also, filters need to be cleaned/replaced more frequently, pumps run harder, water needs to be changed more frequently, and general cleaning and maintenance increases. Plus, the number of people in the pool most certainly affects the enjoyment of Ammenity fee paying residents.

[Normal]

And the number of people in the pool does not affect the price of chlorine or replacement ACs or roofs or lawn maintenance or…

And Frequency does equal wear and tear! Along with the extra flushes in the bathrooms, paper towels/TP, and trash disposal.

Let those who want to abuse the right, pony up the cash for the continuing maintenance!

[Bill14564]

And Frequency does equal wear and tear! Along with the extra flushes in the bathrooms, paper towels/TP, and trash disposal.

Grasping at straws is bad enough but counting sheets of TP?

Next you’ll be blaming the guests for exhaling too much water vapor, increasing humidity, and causing rain storms.

[Normal]

Grasping at straws is bad enough but counting sheets of TP?

Next you’ll be blaming the guests for exhaling too much water vapor, increasing humidity, and causing rain storms.

I don’t know if you recall Calculus class, but remember all those formulas you were permitted to write on an index card before those blue book examinations? Wear and Tear calculus


(F * A * N) / (S * (N^b))
Mechanical Wear Estimation and Fatigue Analysis Calculator | True Geometry’s Blog (https://blog.truegeometry.com/calculators/Wear_and_tear_in_mechanical_components_calculation .html)

The more the use, the more the cost. It’s just science…with mathematical absolutism.

The bottom line, increase use does cause increased failure of equipment etc.

[Bill14564]

I don’t know if you recall Calculus class, but remember all those formulas you were permitted to write on an index card before those blue book examinations? Wear and Tear calculus


(F * A * N) / (S * (N^b))
Mechanical Wear Estimation and Fatigue Analysis Calculator | True Geometry’s Blog (https://blog.truegeometry.com/calculators/Wear_and_tear_in_mechanical_components_calculation .html)

The more the use, the more the cost. It’s just science…with mathematical absolutism.

The bottom line, increase use does cause increased failure of equipment etc.

So, back to straws?


More people in pool means pumps work harder? No.
Means more than 24 hours in the day for them to run? No.
Means the AC in the rec centers age faster? No.
Means the roofs wear out faster? No.
Means the grass needs to be cut more often? No.
Means the Community Watch needs to be staffed up? No.

Give a real example of an increased cost for the homes with more than 20 guests and what percentage of the budget that increase means. With any real numbers the added wear that actually increases cost will be in the noise.

Then remember, as others have pointed out, that your amenity fee is increased by the CPI each year regardless of the cost of the amenities.

[Normal]

So, back to straws?



No straws, just science and math

More guests equals more wear and tear. No question.

By the way, 20 people? Hilarious Understatement

Try 300,000 people in 2024! Are you suggesting that that mass of people doesn’t affect anything? You would be 100% incorrect.

Why are you against the abusers of the system paying for their abuse? There should be no beneficial free ride for those who continually abuse what we all pay for!
I’m sure the computer system knows who they are. Just run a query and bill accordingly. Abusers steal from the rest of us.

We all win if amenities are cheaper and usage costs are evenly distributed.

[BillyGrown]

Uh oh, math. As you were.

[fdpaq0580]

Why shouldn't guest passes cost something to contribute to the increase costs we all share? We have never needed guest passes when friends or family would visit because we entertained at home. Never used the community facilities. Yet, when others have guests and use the amenities the increased costs of maintenance and repair are passed on to us. Many folks have friends and family that come and stay and use "our" amenities extensively and the cost is passed on to all of us. I think a nominal fee ($10?) per guest, per month, would not be unreasonable and ma be significant in terms of offsetting costs.

[Bill14564]

No straws, just science and math

More guests equals more wear and tear. No question.

By the way, 20 people? Hilarious Understatement

Try 300,000 people in 2024! Are you suggesting that that mass of people doesn’t affect anything? You would be 100% incorrect.

Why are you against the abusers of the system paying for their abuse? There should be no beneficial free ride for those who continually abuse what we all pay for!
I’m sure the computer system knows who they are. Just run a query and bill accordingly. Abusers steal from the rest of us.

We all win if amenities are cheaper and usage costs are evenly distributed.

Usage costs are evenly distributed now and, as I wrote above, the cost of amenities does not currently impact your amenity fee.

20 people was YOUR cutoff to define “abuse” and to begin adding an additional charge. IF the 300,000 number is accurate, how many of those represent guests in excess of your limit of 20? My guess is very, very few. I know my guests account for 12 of those and there a heck of a lot of grandchildren in that number as well.

If each of those passes was for a one week stay (remember, you are tackling the short-term renter problem) then that would be equivalent to fewer than 6,000 permanent residents. Compared to a population of nearly 150,000 that is about 4%. So ALL guest passes add about 4% BUT, not all those are the “abuser” so divide 4% accordingly to get a very small impact.

And again, the number of guests does not affect the largest budget lines. A fraction of 4% might affect a small portion of the budget but has no affect on the amount of your amenity fee anyway.

[Normal]

Usage costs are evenly distributed now...
Actually they are not.

Family wouldn’t be a concern. The issue that needs to be addressed is some are renting homes and then passing off “the gift” of guest passes and their costs onto all who pay amenities. If they are using our amenities as for their profit, they can pay. I would recommend registered landlords and Airbnb’s who are abusing the system pay more to offset the additional costs.

20 passes should be more than enough. If you do have a bunch of grandkids coming in, you could even apply for a family exemption. The additional costs should be aimed at those who tote and advertise our amenities for their own personal gain.

[VAtoFLA]

This is less about the actual cost of guests and more about appearing to "fight the landlord" and the legend of the AirBNB nightmare. I don't know the stats, maybe someone here does, but of all guest passes issued, how many are every actually used (scanned)? I've had about 10 passes in the last year and I think one of the guests used one putting course once.

The notion of the bad guys using our amenities and driving up the costs is more about keeping them for ourselves and less about real cost increase. The friendliest community really just doesn't want to share because they resent the monthly fee they signed up for.

None of it impacts me too much.

[Bill14564]

This is less about the actual cost of guests and more about appearing to "fight the landlord" and the legend of the AirBNB nightmare. I don't know the stats, maybe someone here does, but of all guest passes issued, how many are every actually used (scanned)? I've had about 10 passes in the last year and I think one of the guests used one putting course once.

The notion of the bad guys using our amenities and driving up the costs is more about keeping them for ourselves and less about real cost increase. The friendliest community really just doesn't want to share because they resent the monthly fee they signed up for.

None of it impacts me too much.

Of the 220 person-days my guests had passes I would say they used a pool for six of them. 214 days they just carried the passes in their pocket.

[Velvet]

I don’t think that guest passes should be free at all. And they should be time limited, weekly or daily. It means people who are owners and who don’t regularly have guests have to pay for the extra wear and tear on our facilities. Now, unless you are going to argue that guest are actually, like angels and float on air etc…

Tell me where people can use facilities for free, try Disney, or movies, anywhere? For a WHOLE month? Why is it okay here? The laws of economics works differently for us? I personally have guests and family visit and I am quite happy to pay for them.

Also the argument of large families, go into Publix or anywhere and see if they’ll give you more bread for the same price because you have a “large” family. If you have a lot of people you pay proportionally more.

[tophcfa]

Why shouldn't guest passes cost something to contribute to the increase costs we all share? We have never needed guest passes when friends or family would visit because we entertained at home. Never used the community facilities. Yet, when others have guests and use the amenities the increased costs of maintenance and repair are passed on to us. Many folks have friends and family that come and stay and use "our" amenities extensively and the cost is passed on to all of us. I think a nominal fee ($10?) per guest, per month, would not be unreasonable and ma be significant in terms of offsetting costs.
I get guest passes so my visiting friends can get the better resident golf rates at the Championship golf courses, which are not amenities paid for by residents. That being said, I do support the floated idea of limiting free guest passes to 20 per year as a deterrent to revolving door short term rentals.

[DrMack]

Renters aren’t eligible for guest passes. If they were there alone an uproar among most. I think the article needs to clarify this.

[Normal]

Renters aren’t eligible for guest passes. If they were there alone an uproar among most. I think the article needs to clarify this.

I guarantee you there are landlords getting passes for their customers.

From the article… James Vaccaro said a man who operates an Airbnb told him that he has applied for hundreds of guest passes for those who stay there.

Vaccaro suggested that a $10 fee per pass might be affordable for residents who have a few guests a year, but more difficult for Airbnb operators.
“I don’t think we should be subsidizing anyone to use our facilities,” he said.

[DrMack]

I guarantee you there are landlords getting passes for their customers.

From the article… James Vaccaro said a man who operates an Airbnb told him that he has applied for hundreds of guest passes for those who stay there.

Vaccaro suggested that a $10 fee per pass might be affordable for residents who have a few guests a year, but more difficult for Airbnb operators.
“I don’t think we should be subsidizing anyone to use our facilities,” he said.

If so, it’s disheartening and dishonest. Just ban landlords from getting guest passes. One poster said they aren’t hardly used anyway. The problem would be solved and the solution is straight forward. No harm no foul for anyone.

[ElDiabloJoe]

If a landlord of a reasonable rental unit wants guest passes for his tenants, I have no issues with it. They already pay a fee to get them. I would recommend a limit, like 4 per month. That's enough for a monthly renter and their occasional visitors. Seems reasonable to me.

Now if you're talking about new tenants every weekend or several times a week, then I'm not in support of guest pass issuance for these folks.

[tophcfa]

If a landlord of a reasonable rental unit wants guest passes for his tenants, I have no issues with it. They already pay a fee to get them. I would recommend a limit, like 4 per month. That's enough for a monthly renter and their occasional visitors. Seems reasonable to me.

Now if you're talking about new tenants every weekend or several times a week, then I'm not in support of guest pass issuance for these folks.

How would anyone be able to differentiate between a resident getting a guest pass for a visiting friend versus another resident getting a guest pass for a tenant that is renting a room in their home short term via AIRBnB? That’s why I like the idea of limiting the number of free guest passes to something reasonable for legitimate resident guests but would be a deterrent for revolving door short term rentals.

[Normal]

How would anyone be able to differentiate between a resident getting a guest pass for a visiting friend versus another resident getting a guest pass for a tenant that is renting a room in their home short term via AIRBnB? That’s why I like the idea of limiting the number of free guest passes to something reasonable for legitimate resident guests but would be a deterrent for revolving door short term rentals.

That would be the easiest and generate income too. Now there are big families out there. In that case a person can make a simple exemption request. I know the rec centers put all the guest pass info in the computer, so it wouldn’t be hard to see who was abusing the system.

[Bill14564]

That would be the easiest and generate income too. Now there are big families out there. In that case a person can make a simple exemption request. I know the rec centers put all the guest pass info in the computer, so it wouldn’t be hard to see who was abusing the system.

The rec enters have put ZERO of my guest pass info into the computer.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The rec enters have put ZERO of my guest pass info into the computer.

Er, that's how those guest passes are generated. They're put in the system, and the names of the guests and their home addresses and birthdates are saved. That way if they return to visit again, you can just go to the rec center, tell them John Doe and his wife Susie are coming back, and they look it up and print you out the passes. I've done that twice for my cousins who visit for 2-3 days, a few times a year.

[Bill14564]

Er, that's how those guest passes are generated. They're put in the system, and the names of the guests and their home addresses and birthdates are saved. That way if they return to visit again, you can just go to the rec center, tell them John Doe and his wife Susie are coming back, and they look it up and print you out the passes. I've done that twice for my cousins who visit for 2-3 days, a few times a year.

Was it the rec center flagpole that entered the information or was it the automatic door, the pool table, the card room, or one of the employees?

In my case it wass me, my ten little fingers, typing on my keyboard while sitting in my home that put in the information.

Does it exist in a database? Sure. Did the rec center put it there? Not for my passes.

[JMintzer]

Was it the rec center flagpole that entered the information or was it the automatic door, the pool table, the card room, or one of the employees?

In my case it wass me, my ten little fingers, typing on my keyboard while sitting in my home that put in the information.

Does it exist in a database? Sure. Did the rec center put it there? Not for my passes.

Semantics...

Yes, you can register your own guests on-line, but the very same info is entered whether you do that or if you show up in person to get a guest pass...

[Bill14564]

Semantics...

Yes, you can register your own guests on-line, but the very same info is entered whether you do that or if you show up in person to get a guest pass...

Not semantics at all. The assertion was that because the rec center employees always entered the data they would be able to see who was “abusing” the system. I doubt it would be that simple but since the rec center employees DO NOT always enter the information they would not be able to identify “abusers.”

If I sit at home and enter the information then have my guests pick up their own passes the rec center employees don’t see a familiar face come in every third day. They might notice a lot of passes under my name but I can always vary the pickup points to avoid that.

[Velvet]

I don’t care how they enter the data, but guest passes should not be free and they should be time limited daily or weekly. If the guest doesn’t use it, they shouldn’t get one in the first place. I don’t buy a ticket to the movies IF I’m not going to go.

Where can you use their facilities for free for a whole month? This idea was introduced (most likely) as a way of advertising TV when it wasn’t well known. We no longer need this form of advertising. We can go to normal behavior like other venues.

[tophcfa]

If a landlord of a reasonable rental unit wants guest passes for his tenants, I have no issues with it. They already pay a fee to get them. I would recommend a limit, like 4 per month. That's enough for a monthly renter and their occasional visitors. Seems reasonable to me.

Now if you're talking about new tenants every weekend or several times a week, then I'm not in support of guest pass issuance for these folks.

Not semantics at all. The assertion was that because the rec center employees always entered the data they would be able to see who was “abusing” the system. I doubt it would be that simple but since the rec center employees DO NOT always enter the information they would not be able to identify “abusers.”

If I sit at home and enter the information then have my guests pick up their own passes the rec center employees don’t see a familiar face come in every third day. They might notice a lot of passes under my name but I can always vary the pickup points to avoid that.

Poster #2 above is completely missing the more important point. It’s not about how the database is populated, it’s about the information contained within the database.

Consider two residents that both have a history of 200 guest passes.

Resident one’s 200 guest passes were for a total of 20 people, who each visited the villages 10 different times over the last 8 years.

Resident two’s guest passes were for 196 different people over the last 10 months.

Which one of these residents appears to be having family members and friends occasionally visit, and which resident is very obviously running a short term revolving door business out of their home? The answer is about as obvious as it gets!

[VAtoFLA]

If it's the boogeyman landlord that you are after, a hard limit is the only way. They will just pass the $10 to the tenant. Problem with a hard limit is when a non-landlord villager hits that limit and then simply can't have guests.

This is all a made up problem to me. None of it will reduce our amenity fee and guests, while they certainly have impact on the amenities don't impact them substantially. The vast majority of amenity cost and maintenance are fixed costs.

[Normal]

If it's the boogeyman landlord that you are after, a hard limit is the only way. They will just pass the $10 to the tenant. Problem with a hard limit is when a non-landlord villager hits that limit and then simply can't have guests.

This is all a made up problem to me. None of it will reduce our amenity fee and guests, while they certainly have impact on the amenities don't impact them substantially. The vast majority of amenity cost and maintenance are fixed costs.

I disagree with your assessment. But you have a right to an opinion.

Wear and Tear is a cost and a mathematical absolute. Additional users do cost additional funds. Extra money collected can offset costs.

There is nothing wrong with charging a landlord who exploits the loopholes of an antiquated system for their own personal gain.

Most of us could care less if a landlord has to charge a higher price for their rental. All of us should care about our neighbors who have problems with the current amenity fee or costs.

[Radrxman]

I like the idea. How many residents, who aren’t running a short term rental business out of their home, would need more than 20 guest passes per year. We typically get about 6-8 passes per year, and have never needed more than 10.
Owners of rental homes and winter residents actually subsidize the amenity fees for homeowners who live here year round. We pay amenity fees every month even if the home is empty. You are welcome.

[golfing eagles]

This is less about the actual cost of guests and more about appearing to "fight the landlord" and the legend of the AirBNB nightmare. I don't know the stats, maybe someone here does, but of all guest passes issued, how many are every actually used (scanned)? I've had about 10 passes in the last year and I think one of the guests used one putting course once.

The notion of the bad guys using our amenities and driving up the costs is more about keeping them for ourselves and less about real cost increase. The friendliest community really just doesn't want to share because they resent the monthly fee they signed up for.

None of it impacts me too much.

If it's the boogeyman landlord that you are after, a hard limit is the only way. They will just pass the $10 to the tenant. Problem with a hard limit is when a non-landlord villager hits that limit and then simply can't have guests.

This is all a made up problem to me. None of it will reduce our amenity fee and guests, while they certainly have impact on the amenities don't impact them substantially. The vast majority of amenity cost and maintenance are fixed costs.

Is that a denial that SOME short term rentals are a problem? Because we have heard from those living next to an "imaginary nightmare" what their lives have turned into. I can also guess that those two posts suggest a perspective from someone who runs STR's.

From my perspective, a friend or family member who stays in my home FOR FREE is a guest. Someone who is paying to stay is a RENTER. I would simply deny guest passes to any RENTER who is staying less than 30 days and end the "AirBNB nightmare."

[Happydaz]

Best to end short term rentals. One month should be the minimum rental duration. We can do this. Many communities have banned short term rentals.

[Rocksnap]

Here’s a novel thought. Full time residents are not having that many guests.
As for renters, charge ALL renters a fee regardless of length of stay.
There is no reason why us full timers should be inconvenienced with so many outsiders. And we will be.

[MandoMan]

The guest passes review workshop is coming up.

https://www.**************.com/2025/09/10/officials-want-to-review-excessive-use-of-guest-passes-in-the-villages/

“Excessive use of Villages guest passes sparked discussion at a meeting Wednesday of the Amenity Authority Committee.

A review recommending revised fees and operating policies related to recreation, community watch and facilities in The Villages is scheduled for completion this fall.

The review will recommend additional ways to offset operating and maintenance costs…..”

This will be a great way to keep our amenity fees in check! Let the first 20 passes be free and then charge an additional 10 dollars for each pass after that in a given year. The additional funds required to take care of guests could be used to keep our amenity fees from climbing.

The guest pass system costs plenty, and so do the people who monitor the recreation centers and pools and check ID cards. I disagree about twenty free guest passes a year. I’d say $10 for EACH guest pass for all of us. That’s pretty much what guest passes cost Villagers through our amenities fees. I don’t mind paying $10 for a guest pass if someone comes to visit me.

It would be nice if we could also charge $5 or $10 to those without an ID card or guest pass to get into the enclosed areas where the bands play. But I know that wouldn’t work. Self-defeating.

[Mrfriendly]

I get guest passes so my visiting friends can get the better resident golf rates at the Championship golf courses, which are not amenities paid for by residents. That being said, I do support the floated idea of limiting free guest passes to 20 per year as a deterrent to revolving door short term rentals.

Perhaps golf only guest passes would be free and those passes would not be able to enter rec centers, pools, wood shops etc? Or, does getting guest passes to reduce golf fees hurt the rest of us? Generate income vs generate less income.
Either way guests I would think help to stimulate our bars and Resturant economy.
Hmmm. 🤔

[gwenhwalker@yahoo.com]

Guests are not allowed in sport pools

[VAtoFLA]

I disagree with your assessment. But you have a right to an opinion.

Right on. Yours is also a right. We don't have to agree and it seems like we don't here.



Wear and Tear is a cost and a mathematical absolute. Additional users do cost additional funds. Extra money collected can offset costs.

On this we agree. Wear and tear is a real thing. I'm just saying that it is not substantial compared to the fixed cost portion of the cost.



There is nothing wrong with charging a landlord who exploits the loopholes of an antiquated system for their own personal gain.

Most of us could care less if a landlord has to charge a higher price for their rental. All of us should care about our neighbors who have problems with the current amenity fee or costs.


Definitely nothing wrong with it. My point is you aren't charging the landlord, the guest will pay it so it will do nothing (or very little) to dissuade renting and will increase the cost for your non-renting neighbors to have guests.

[VAtoFLA]

Is that a denial that SOME short term rentals are a problem? Because we have heard from those living next to an "imaginary nightmare" what their lives have turned into. I can also guess that those two posts suggest a perspective from someone who runs STR's.

From my perspective, a friend or family member who stays in my home FOR FREE is a guest. Someone who is paying to stay is a RENTER. I would simply deny guest passes to any RENTER who is staying less than 30 days and end the "AirBNB nightmare."

I've weighed in on it before. Everything I hear is about the proverbial friend that experienced some problem. I think problems should and can be handled individually. I don't see a proliferation of nightmare AirBNB rentals and parties. I see a ton of worry about them.

You can guess anything you want but if you kept score on your lifetime guesses I bet you are wrong more than you are right. My two posts simply indicate that I don't see a huge problem with guest pass use and I don't see a huge problem with rentals in The Villages. I just see a lot of worry about them. For me, the Amenity fee is what I bargained for when I bought, the increases are based on CPI. When I use facilities, I am able to use them and the others there are treating everything respectfully.

For this issue, if I had a vote, today that vote would be to leave it how it is. Others feel differently.

[VAtoFLA]

It would be nice if we could also charge $5 or $10 to those without an ID card or guest pass to get into the enclosed areas where the bands play. But I know that wouldn’t work. Self-defeating.

Music in the squares is not a Villages Amenity. It's open to the public. I *think*, but someone smarter than me can chime in, that it is paid for by the merchants and possibly subsidized through some county tourism grants.

[La lamy]

I think a limit on guest passes per household is a great idea for mitigating short term rentals. My guess is 10 passes per year. No extras at any cost, or else it'd still be too easy to put that cost onto short term visitors.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I don’t care how they enter the data, but guest passes should not be free and they should be time limited daily or weekly. If the guest doesn’t use it, they shouldn’t get one in the first place. I don’t buy a ticket to the movies IF I’m not going to go.

Where can you use their facilities for free for a whole month? This idea was introduced (most likely) as a way of advertising TV when it wasn’t well known. We no longer need this form of advertising. We can go to normal behavior like other venues.

Here's an idea, piggybacking on your comments:

The Rec dept. can sell guest passes for registered guests for $10/week, or $25/month, per person. If a pass ends up not being used, then the money is refunded. If it's used even once, no refund. And all guest passes must be presented with a photo ID, so someone can't just use someone else's guest pass to get away with free amenity use. That would need to be actively enforced. That means if some unknown people are in the pool and the ID checker person comes by, they can order those people to get out of the pool and show their ID. If they refuse, the police can be called.

[Normal]

I think a limit on guest passes per household is a great idea for mitigating short term rentals. My guess is 10 passes per year. No extras at any cost, or else it'd still be too easy to put that cost onto short term visitors.

For sure, 20 passes may be too generous. One thing seems certain, costs currently are not going down. Mitigating the increase with renter pass premiums could only help. Some might say it won’t amount to much, some say it will. The bottom line is it’s something, either big or small, it’s something.

Landlords admit (at least on this forum), that renters would pay for use of our facilities. Whether it’s with higher rental rates or out of a landlord’s pocket, who cares? The free ride on the rest of us should be terminated.

[kareneluck]

I like the idea. First 10 for free and then $10 each for more.

[Aces4]

Here's an idea, piggybacking on your comments:

The Rec dept. can sell guest passes for registered guests for $10/week, or $25/month, per person. If a pass ends up not being used, then the money is refunded. If it's used even once, no refund. And all guest passes must be presented with a photo ID, so someone can't just use someone else's guest pass to get away with free amenity use. That would need to be actively enforced. That means if some unknown people are in the pool and the ID checker person comes by, they can order those people to get out of the pool and show their ID. If they refuse, the police can be called.

All this feels to me like a big reason not to buy in The Villages. Pay all that money for amenity fees and one can't even enjoy time here with family and friends without a big surcharge. Ah, the joy of living with miserly old people day after day. What's not to love?😬

[jimhoward]

I don't really see the downside of charging a fee for guest passes if they were to decide to go that way. If the numbers I have read in this post are accurate, there are hundreds of thousands of passes issued in a year. Even a fee as little as $10 would generate millions of dollars of revenue for the districts. The cost burden on applicants for passes would be minimal unless the number of passes was very large.

[Birdrm]

I actually think 20 passes is a bit high, I would suggest 10-12 and then have the fee start, I do understand some actual homeowners might need a few more than this limit, but so they might have to pay $20 for the last 2 guests in a busy year! The idea is to get the weekly rental units to pay the $10 for each guest!

[Aces4]

I don't really see the downside of charging a fee for guest passes if they were to decide to go that way. If the numbers I have read in this post are accurate, there are hundreds of thousands of passes issued in a year. Even a fee as little as $10 would generate millions of dollars of revenue for the districts. The cost burden on applicants for passes would be minimal unless the number of passes was very large.

Just remember you have set the table for higher fees for everything. It's the same as the way our government works, just increase funding little by little by little. To me, all this points out is the fact The Villages is not self sustaining and get ready to pay. IMHO, this is the tip of the iceberg.

[gobuck827]

///

[Bruceg15]

All,

I fortunately have my Children and Grandchildren visit often. One of the amenities was use of our recreation facilities, when we decided to move here. One of my Children has four kids. They usually visit us about every couple or few weeks. We are owners not Renters. That would kind of be kind of expensive. FYI that does not include my other family and Grandkids. What about our friends that come from all over the US? They all enjoy our amenities.

Our visitors are attracted to all our amenities, and we all have fun. And maybe some of them buy a home here because of the visit and the great amenities that we enjoy.

On the other hand, there are Homeowners that run Air B &Bs. They make money from the property. Those should take the brunt of the Guest pass fees, not the residents, their families and the guests.

The smack down should be to charge the outsiders that use our amenities. Charge them or remove them from our community amenities.

DO NOT CHARGE THE RESIDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS.

[asianthree]

I think a limit on guest passes per household is a great idea for mitigating short term rentals. My guess is 10 passes per year. No extras at any cost, or else it'd still be too easy to put that cost onto short term visitors.

Renters sure charge just like the $50 residents pass.

However, for us what children, or grandchildren do we forbid coming to see us at holidays, with 10 passes no exceptions.

3 kids, 3 spouses, 6 grands + 2 fiancé’s. It’s hard enough for some to get family to visit. Your idea to limit, would only cause hardship. Choose who is special and who is unloved.

3 kids come 3 times a year, twice with spouse’s, 6 grands once a year for parks, along with fiancé’s.(gone 4 days out of 7 day visits).
One child is nearing hospice, so visit is difficult yet important for all.

All come for two holidays per year. None go to any public pools because we have our own. All frequent restaurants, so great for economy.
2 kids and 1 grand + fianc, are avid golfers each belonging to private clubs. Each value playing time with their dad and grandpa.


So in your opinion who would you choose for only 10 passes. Some would say dump the 49yo stage 4 brain tumor, visits can be sad.

[biker1]

They need to be accompanied if they are under 19, otherwise no.

My understanding of the guest pass system is that the passes that are now available for no charge are to be used by “guests” of a home owner. They cannot be used by the “guest” unless they are accompanied by the resident.

The guest ID’s that are issued for renters already cost $50 dollars and require the residents of the rental unit to surrender their villages ID’s prior to being available to the renters.

So the renters that obtain a guest ID are not creating any additional burden on the amenities since they are just using them while the owners cannot.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

All this feels to me like a big reason not to buy in The Villages. Pay all that money for amenity fees and one can't even enjoy time here with family and friends without a big surcharge. Ah, the joy of living with miserly old people day after day. What's not to love?😬

$10/week and $25/month for temporary unlimited use of amenity passes (except regional and sports pools) seems reasonable to me. It's not a "big" surcharge. All the swimming, basketball, archery, bocci, billiards/pool, video games, and opportunity to get in on many rec center classes, for just $10/week? How is that a "big" surcharge?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

All,

I fortunately have my Children and Grandchildren visit often. One of the amenities was use of our recreation facilities, when we decided to move here. One of my Children has four kids. They usually visit us about every couple or few weeks. We are owners not Renters. That would kind of be kind of expensive. FYI that does not include my other family and Grandkids. What about our friends that come from all over the US? They all enjoy our amenities.

Our visitors are attracted to all our amenities, and we all have fun. And maybe some of them buy a home here because of the visit and the great amenities that we enjoy.

On the other hand, there are Homeowners that run Air B &Bs. They make money from the property. Those should take the brunt of the Guest pass fees, not the residents, their families and the guests.

The smack down should be to charge the outsiders that use our amenities. Charge them or remove them from our community amenities.

DO NOT CHARGE THE RESIDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS.

And many landlords don't inform The Villages that the people staying in their homes for a long weekend or a couple of weeks are tenants, not guests. They get the same guest passes you get, in the same way you get them. There is no way to know that the person staying there is paying for the privilege, or visiting as a guest.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Renters sure charge just like the $50 residents pass.

However, for us what children, or grandchildren do we forbid coming to see us at holidays, with 10 passes no exceptions.

3 kids, 3 spouses, 6 grands + 2 fiancé’s. It’s hard enough for some to get family to visit. Your idea to limit, would only cause hardship. Choose who is special and who is unloved.

3 kids come 3 times a year, twice with spouse’s, 6 grands once a year for parks, along with fiancé’s.(gone 4 days out of 7 day visits).
One child is nearing hospice, so visit is difficult yet important for all.

All come for two holidays per year. None go to any public pools because we have our own. All frequent restaurants, so great for economy.
2 kids and 1 grand + fianc, are avid golfers each belonging to private clubs. Each value playing time with their dad and grandpa.


So in your opinion who would you choose for only 10 passes. Some would say dump the 49yo stage 4 brain tumor, visits can be sad.

A solution to that would be to limit FREE passes to an arbitrary number of adults, and children under 19 who are accompanied by those adults, would always be free. So if you did the 10 passes per year...

Then up to 10 ADULTS would get passes for free. AND all kids under 19 would get passes for free. If an 11th adult wanted a pass, and brought 3 kids with them, then the adult would pay for an adult pass. And the kids would still get free passes.

[golfing eagles]

And many landlords don't inform The Villages that the people staying in their homes for a long weekend or a couple of weeks are tenants, not guests. They get the same guest passes you get, in the same way you get them. There is no way to know that the person staying there is paying for the privilege, or visiting as a guest.

True, but the neighbors will know. Since anyone can anonymously report an 8-inch garden gnome, why not accept anonymous reports of someone running a STR business?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

True, but the neighbors will know. Since anyone can anonymously report an 8-inch garden gnome, why not accept anonymous reports of someone running a STR business?

That would require the Developer and all the CDDs to agree to enforce the internal deed restrictions consistently.

I mean, I'm 100% in favor of the idea. But there's no hope, no prayer, no wish that'll make it happen. So I'd rather try for things that can actually be enforced.

[asianthree]

I think a limit on guest passes per household is a great idea for mitigating short term rentals. My guess is 10 passes per year. No extras at any cost, or else it'd still be too easy to put that cost onto short term visitors.

A solution to that would be to limit FREE passes to an arbitrary number of adults, and children under 19 who are accompanied by those adults, would always be free. So if you did the 10 passes per year...

Then up to 10 ADULTS would get passes for free. AND all kids under 19 would get passes for free. If an 11th adult wanted a pass, and brought 3 kids with them, then the adult would pay for an adult pass. And the kids would still get free passes.

I replied to the above post from LaLamy on 10 pass’s NO exception.

Our family of 16 is 25-55yo, zero under 19, ever.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I replied to the above post from LaLamy on 10 pass’s NO exception.

Our family of 16 is 25-55yo, zero under 19, ever.

So then you'd have to pay for six out of the 16 people who visit, if you want them to have a guest pass. I don't see the problem.

[Aces4]

$10/week and $25/month for temporary unlimited use of amenity passes (except regional and sports pools) seems reasonable to me. It's not a "big" surcharge. All the swimming, basketball, archery, bocci, billiards/pool, video games, and opportunity to get in on many rec center classes, for just $10/week? How is that a "big" surcharge?

If one doesn't have children, grandchildren, or family or friends I can see where this arrangement would be glorious for keeping only old people around them.

[Bill14564]

So then you'd have to pay for six out of the 16 people who visit, if you want them to have a guest pass. I don't see the problem.

That’s part of the problem - those who would impose restrictions or fees would not be affected by those restrictions or fees and don’t see a problem. Others would be affected and for them it understandably is a problem.

[Bill14564]

True, but the neighbors will know. Since anyone can anonymously report an 8-inch garden gnome, why not accept anonymous reports of someone running a STR business?

Nothing to report.

A STR is probably not considered to be “running a business out of the home” but clearly is not one of the two business types explicitly prohibited by the deer restrictions.

[Bill14564]

Just remember you have set the table for higher fees for everything. It's the same as the way our government works, just increase funding little by little by little. To me, all this points out is the fact The Villages is not self sustaining and get ready to pay. IMHO, this is the tip of the iceberg.

The Amenity Divisions have been successfully running the amenities for how many decades now? There was a period of time with no amenity fee increases, the area north of 466 is pushing for another freeze now, and the area south of 466 is struggling to explain why they don’t want a freeze. To me, this shows the amenities are successfully self sustaining, are funded very well at the moment, and don’t need additional sources of revenue.

[Aces4]

The Amenity Divisions have been successfully running the amenities for how many decades now? There was a period of time with no amenity fee increases, the area north of 466 is pushing for another freeze now, and the area south of 466 is struggling to explain why they don’t want a freeze. To me, this shows the amenities are successfully self sustaining, are funded very well at the moment, and don’t need additional sources of revenue.

I hope that assessment is correct. I wonder if Sumter county will pick up on the fact that they can add additional fees for things and Villagers won't mind. Such as: golf cart fees, library charges every time you use it, parking meters, seems that if extra charges are okay with Villagers they won't mind kicking into the county coffers. All the surrounding coffers I should say..
Marion, Lake and Wildwood, there's a whole bunch of change out there ready to be collected.

[Aces4]

Renters sure charge just like the $50 residents pass.

However, for us what children, or grandchildren do we forbid coming to see us at holidays, with 10 passes no exceptions.

3 kids, 3 spouses, 6 grands + 2 fiancé’s. It’s hard enough for some to get family to visit. Your idea to limit, would only cause hardship. Choose who is special and who is unloved.

3 kids come 3 times a year, twice with spouse’s, 6 grands once a year for parks, along with fiancé’s.(gone 4 days out of 7 day visits).
One child is nearing hospice, so visit is difficult yet important for all.

All come for two holidays per year. None go to any public pools because we have our own. All frequent restaurants, so great for economy.
2 kids and 1 grand + fianc, are avid golfers each belonging to private clubs. Each value playing time with their dad and grandpa.


So in your opinion who would you choose for only 10 passes. Some would say dump the 49yo stage 4 brain tumor, visits can be sad.

As an aside, I've wondered how your child was managing with the difficult diagnosis. I'm sorry to learn there was no success in treatment. Thinking of your family in these final days. Been there, done that with a family member, it's a rough road.

[tophcfa]

That’s part of the problem - those who would impose restrictions or fees would not be affected by those restrictions or fees and don’t see a problem. Others would be affected and for them it understandably is a problem.

I’d be totally in favor of restrictions that hit my wallet, as long as they are severe enough to prevent short term rentals. I’m sure I’m not alone in that opinion.

[golfing eagles]

Nothing to report.

A STR is probably not considered to be “running a business out of the home” but clearly is not one of the two business types explicitly prohibited by the deer restrictions.

Yet everyone knows IT IS a business being run out of a home. What else would one call it?????

[golfing eagles]

I’d be totally in favor of restrictions that hit my wallet, as long as they are severe enough to prevent short term rentals. I’m sure I’m not alone in that opinion.

You most certainly are not!

[Aces4]

You most certainly are not!

Yes, do get rid of those short-term rentals! And then watch the housing market in The Villages collapse.:crap2:

[Normal]

Yes, do get rid of those short-term rentals! And then watch the housing market in The Villages collapse.:crap2:

I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water yet. Nothing has been done and the market is already collapsing. The market is virtually frozen in the resale market.

[Aces4]

I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water yet. Nothing has been done and the market is already collapsing. The market is virtually frozen in the resale market.

That is what I'm talking about, I don't think Villagers have any idea how much their market is propped up by rental income for owners. Ban all rentals and see what happens.

[Topspinmo]

I knew a guy that owned house near me had over 10 family members with resident ID. Some say how that possible? I guess they was all on deed? IMO there multi-ways to game the system and some are doing it.

[Topspinmo]

I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water yet. Nothing has been done and the market is already collapsing. The market is virtually frozen in the resale market.


4 houses in my neighborhood sold in less than two months, one didn’t last week. Houses are selling just market flooded with new and resales and interests rates are high.

[Bill14564]

Yet everyone knows IT IS a business being run out of a home. What else would one call it?????

IS IT?

When I look up Avis locations in Alaska I don’t see Homer, Seward, or Talkeetna yet I will be in my Avis car there. Does the location of the rented property define the location of the business or is the location of the business defined by where the actual transaction is conducted?

[Velvet]

All this feels to me like a big reason not to buy in The Villages. Pay all that money for amenity fees and one can't even enjoy time here with family and friends without a big surcharge. Ah, the joy of living with miserly old people day after day. What's not to love?������

If you are buying to “live off “ other people, yeah, then please DON’T BUY in The Villages. See if there is anywhere (in the world) where one can do that. As far as old miserly people… so how many retirement homes (with all our amenities, or even without) are free?

[Happydaz]

That is what I'm talking about, I don't think Villagers have any idea how much their market is propped up by rental income for owners. Ban all rentals and see what happens.

Maybe just ban short term rentals? You still could allow long term rentals. Just no motel type renting for 2 or 3 nights. One wonders what percentage of these short term rentals are being reported to Florida tax authorities and paying the sales tax for STR’s? I believe after three years of continuing to not pay the sales tax on these rentals it can result in a serious charge under Florida law. Maybe someone else has more knowledge on this subject.

[tophcfa]

Nothing to report.

A STR is probably not considered to be “running a business out of the home” but clearly is not one of the two business types explicitly prohibited by the deer restrictions.

Yet everyone knows IT IS a business being run out of a home. What else would one call it?????

From the mouth of the developer, running a STR out of one’s home is definitely considered running a business out of the home, if the landlord is concurrently living in the home. Renting out one’s home, WHILE NOT CONCURRENCY LIVING THERE, whether it be by the night, week, month, year, or longer, is not considered running a business out of the home. Whether or not it violates a deed restriction apparently depends on which CDD the home is located in. It violates deed restrictions in the older districts but over time the deed restriction language has changed. It’s highly unlikely the likes of AIRBNB’s were even considered when CDD1 was being developed.

Again, from the mouth of the developer to my ears, in my District (CDD1), renting out one or more rooms in a home, while concurrently living there, violates not one, but two deed restrictions. First, it is considered running a business out of the home, and second, it violates the deed restriction that homes are to be used as single family residential units. Unfortunately, enforcement of internal deed restrictions falls on the developer, and is not required but instead is optional at their discretion, and they have chosen not to enforce STR’s.

[Aces4]

If you are buying to “live off “ other people, yeah, then please DON’T BUY in The Villages. See if there is anywhere (in the world) where one can do that. As far as old miserly people… so how many retirement homes (with all our amenities, or even without) are free?

Uh, the amenities here aren't free. I'm just telling you what the powers that be know, the sales here are very much propped by investors.

[Heytubes]

I don’t have a rental, but since the fee is being paid by the homeowner, what’s the difference if the home is occupied year round or a couple times a month? If it’s a full time resident they would use the amenities year round verses a renter using them whenever the home is a short term rental. If charging an extra fee for a short term renter why is the rental property owner paying a monthly fee?

[golfing eagles]

I don’t have a rental, but since the fee is being paid by the homeowner, what’s the difference if the home is occupied year round or a couple times a month? If it’s a full time resident they would use the amenities year round verses a renter using them whenever the home is a short term rental. If charging an extra fee for a short term renter why is the rental property owner paying a monthly fee?

It's not about a "fee". It's about the identity of our community. Are we a 55+ retirement community or a weekend vacation resort for 20 somethings that want to party all night and trash their neighbor's property???? Yes, that's hyperbole, but it is the experience of some, not all, that live next to an Airbnb.

[Velvet]

Uh, the amenities here aren't free. I'm just telling you what the powers that be know, the sales here are very much propped by investors.

I agree, but I think that they should be paid for by everyone who uses them. Like, don’t “advertise” on my dime type of thing. And don’t lower my life style so others can benefit. Like some college kids on their break etc.The problem is not their age, but their behavior. They have a lot of energy, no manners, noisy, and they don’t give a damn. Not all, my neighbor has her kids and their friends over regularly. We are talking about a large number all at once. Some stay over at grandpa’s place too. When they come they go house to house on the street, to see if any one needs help with something. They were just brought up that way.

[Topspinmo]

IS IT?

When I look up Avis locations in Alaska I don’t see Homer, Seward, or Talkeetna yet I will be in my Avis car there. Does the location of the rented property define the location of the business or is the location of the business defined by where the actual transaction is conducted?

In what world does that make sense? Bizorio world? :1rotfl:

[Topspinmo]

Usage costs are evenly distributed now and, as I wrote above, the cost of amenities does not currently impact your amenity fee.

20 people was YOUR cutoff to define “abuse” and to begin adding an additional charge. IF the 300,000 number is accurate, how many of those represent guests in excess of your limit of 20? My guess is very, very few. I know my guests account for 12 of those and there a heck of a lot of grandchildren in that number as well.

If each of those passes was for a one week stay (remember, you are tackling the short-term renter problem) then that would be equivalent to fewer than 6,000 permanent residents. Compared to a population of nearly 150,000 that is about 4%. So ALL guest passes add about 4% BUT, not all those are the “abuser” so divide 4% accordingly to get a very small impact.

And again, the number of guests does not affect the largest budget lines. A fraction of 4% might affect a small portion of the budget but has no affect on the amount of your amenity fee anyway.

Well I think any over 4 abuse, see how that works we all have opinions but we don’t get to decide.

[jimhoward]

If I were going to rent a place for a wild weekend of partying (as if I did that), the Villages would be the last place that would occur to me to go. Do people actually do that? They must based on the comments I read here. Why don't they pick someplace more interesting or fun? Okay gang, lets have a party, where should we go? Vegas, nah, the Keys, nah, Myrtle beach nah, how about the Villages retirement community.....alright lets go!

[Velvet]

If I were going to rent a place for a wild weekend of partying (as if I did that), the Villages would be the last place that would occur to me to go. Do people actually do that? They must based on the comments I read here. Why don't they pick someplace more interesting or fun? Okay gang, lets have a party, where should we go? Vegas, nah, the Keys, nah, Myrtle beach nah, how about the Villages retirement community.....alright lets go!

Easy, it is CHEAP, especially if you are a friend of a friend, sleep 6 on the floor, close to Disney, only one hour drive from the beach etc etc. Lots of people, little money and if you have any, it goes on booze and drugs. I know it’s party time when I see the barrel of chips and truck load of pizzas arriving.

[BrianL99]

Yet everyone knows IT IS a business being run out of a home. What else would one call it?????

Courts all over the United States have come to a different conclusion and interpretation.

Most courts have ruled that STR's (on their face) is not "running a business out of the home", they have essentially ruled that the business is run somewhere else and the "renting out of the home", is mere the product the business (which is run elsewhere) sells/rents.

They have generally maintained the "house/home" is still being used for "residential purposes" (people are sleeping & cooking there.)

I don't agree with the interpretation, but apparently I'm not allowed to make the rules. The communities who have lucked out and been able to significantly reduce STR's, had zoning regulations that specifically defined daily rentals or STR's as prohibited use.

STR's are one of the best examples of an entirely new business model, that caught regulators flat-footed and they could never catch up. The early adopters had to much invested and were willing to spend big money, to maintain that business.

Think about File Sharing with music. We woke up one day and you could get a digital copy of any bit of music you wanted, for free. (i.e. Napster & other P2P apps). A great example of technology out-pacing regulation and it changed things forever.

I hadn't seen the below post, when I wrote the above, but what Tophcfa was told by the Developer, is exactly what most courts have ruled.

From the mouth of the developer, running a STR out of one’s home is definitely considered running a business out of the home, if the landlord is concurrently living in the home. Renting out one’s home, WHILE NOT CONCURRENCY LIVING THERE, whether it be by the night, week, month, year, or longer, is not considered running a business out of the home.
.

[VAtoFLA]

I’d be totally in favor of restrictions that hit my wallet, as long as they are severe enough to prevent short term rentals. I’m sure I’m not alone in that opinion.

That's the thing. This entire thread really is about the STR Landlord Boogeyman and it was disguised initially as a wear and tear issue on the amenities.

But to your point, this will have almost no impact on STR. Landlords will just pass the cost on to the renter. It would have to be a hard count restriction and then that's going to impact the community itself more than it does the landlords

I personally don't see hoards of young people coming in and renting for a day or two and throwing wild parties. I hear 3rd hand legends of them and fears of them, but I don't see it happening. Still, if what people want is a restriction on STR, which it is clear that is what the folks in this thread want more than guest pass restrictions, then your efforts should be put into pursuing that and limiting rental terms less than X days, X weeks, or X months.

Of course, people will violate it and then it becomes an enforcement issue, but then at least the local residents will have some ability to impact the homeowner.

[Normal]

That's the thing. This entire thread really is about the STR Landlord Boogeyman and it was disguised initially as a wear and tear issue on the amenities.

Someone has created their own Boogeyman. I am the original poster. Read the post!!! It’s about amenities. The slippery slope this has taken is all about someone’s own perception. It would be nice to see amenity prices stall for a few years.

[golfing eagles]

Someone has created their own Boogeyman. I am the original poster. Read the post!!! It’s about amenities. The slippery slope this has taken is all about someone’s own perception. It would be nice to see amenity prices stall for a few years.

It would be nice to see gas prices, food prices, college tuition and airline ticket prices stall for a few years as well. Unfortunately, Fantasyland is located about 60 miles south of here.

[octathorn]

Peopled, people, people don’t you think that since we’ve been allowed to get guest passes that the benevolent village owners have already factored in whatever extra maintenance costs there might be?
And if they did charge for passes, do you think that would prevent them from raising or amenity fees because they got revenue from somewhere else?
And those folks renting houses using guest passes, if the owners were living there instead and using the facilities what difference would that make then?
IMHO it all comes out in the wash

[asianthree]

So then you'd have to pay for six out of the 16 people who visit, if you want them to have a guest pass. I don't see the problem.

Still misread the post from LaLamy..her suggestion was

10 Passes TOTAL. No exceptions, no Buying extra. 10 Is the limit.

[asianthree]

Peopled, people, people don’t you think that since we’ve been allowed to get guest passes that the benevolent village owners have already factored in whatever extra maintenance costs there might be?
And if they did charge for passes, do you think that would prevent them from raising or amenity fees because they got revenue from somewhere else?
And those folks renting houses using guest passes, if the owners were living there instead and using the facilities what difference would that make then?
IMHO it all comes out in the wash

For many years TV rentals were retired, many stayed high season, and other months. Our 2 homes in TV had same two people that stayed 5-6 months, for 4 years. The other home was long term one tenant for 10 years. As the owner you could see how many guest passes were issued, there were 4 guest passes issued.

Rentals were hard to acquire, usually with 30+ applicants, per rental. Most investors rented to keep home occupied, but rarely did you find they were desperate to rent. After all it was their home.

STR’s were few and far between, until the last few years. I don’t buy they are staying cheap to drive an hour Plus each way to the Parks and Beach.

Some STR’s are becoming a problem, the abundance of rentals, the need of money. STR’s are renting by the night. Like a revolving door, people come and go constantly.

We ran a credit check, those who have one day rental, don’t care who stays as long as the $ hits their account.

That the difference in today’s rental in TV

[BrianL99]

And those folks renting houses using guest passes, if the owners were living there instead and using the facilities what difference would that make then?
IMHO it all comes out in the wash

Bad assumption.

In any resort/vacation/retirement community, the intensity of usage is multiplied exponentially, by short time visitors, who are trying to cram as much into their 2 weeks vacation period as they possibly can, to "get their money's worth".

Think about it. How often do you go out for dinner on a regular basis, vs how many times you're likely to dine out, when on vacation?

[asianthree]

Bad assumption.

In any resort/vacation/retirement community, the intensity of usage is multiplied exponentially, by short time visitors, who are trying to cram as much into their 2 weeks vacation period as the can, to "get their money's worth".

Think about it. How often do you go out for dinner on a regular basis, vs how many times you're likely to dine out, when on vacation?

Compare vaca dining out to TV resident, could be close to equal. Sad to say but in TV there are 100’s of home that still have the paperwork inside oven.

We looked at more than 400 preowned in TV that oven never used. Even in SS and Lopez area. It became a guessing game never used or used, before we toured the house.

We know many in TV who eat out daily, some twice a day. We on the other hand eat out maybe 4 times a month. That because we don’t fry fish at home. Eating breakfast out is extremely rare, mainly because I want my eggs perfectly basted, and bacon crispy.

[callalily]

I agree with the poster who said that short term renters use the amenities much more. I lived in a much smaller resort community prior to moving here. Before AirBNB and **** became a thing, the one pool was very pleasant to use with maybe one other group in it whenever we went. As STRs became more popular, the pool became more popular and there were 10X the number of people in it as previously. It was crowded and noisy. The wear and tear on the pool had to increase exponentially.

In the early '10's the community instituted a fee for pool guest passes of $10 per house per day. Guests of owners could come in with the owner pass. This did not affect short term rentals at all - I was renting out my unit at the time, so I know. If the powers that be want to decrease short term rentals, they'll have to put a limit on the number that they issue to each house.

[Justputt]

Why are you against the abusers of the system paying for their abuse? There should be no beneficial free ride for those who continually abuse what we all pay for!
I’m sure the computer system knows who they are. Just run a query and bill accordingly. Abusers steal from the rest of us.

In the couple years I've lived here I've gotten a guest pass 1 time for the long weekend (suggestion of those issuing the pass to have a buffer just in case) even though they were going to only be here for an overnighter and we never used the pass! How many people actually USE the passes for the duration vs getting just "in case"?

Abuser? Define it! If a grandparent has their 2 kids, each with 3 kids, visit once or twice per year (e.g. Thanksgiving and Xmas), you're going to say it's abusive and make them pay for them to visit a third time in the same year (e.g. grandparent b-day, spring break, easter)? Where in the deed restrictions or ANY document we signed was there a limit on guests? I bought a home here KNOWING that TV has a strong reputation for being VERY friendly to parents and grandparents, hosting children's events, etc. and now you think it's abuse it they visit "too much"? Remember the FAMILY pools are there for a reason, e.g. kids and grandchildren, so their usage and the attached bathrooms was ALWAYS factored in and absolutely intentional.

I understand your point, but I personally have never seen our rec center fully utilized, although perhaps last year the pool was near capacity one or two days, whereas it's normally a dozen or less. Sure, with all the classes I'm sure the sports pools get busy, so maybe limit "classes" to residents? As for the bathrooms, let's be clear, TV grounds keepers, vendors, delivery drivers, and the like swamp our rec center bathrooms compared to ANYONE or group with guest passes!!! There's almost a continuous stream of them after lunch EVERY DAY until early afternoon, they're often there long enough to read a newspaper, and you rarely hear the hand dryer run when they leave... yuck.

[jimjamuser]

Not true, have you ever gone in a pool after two hours of water volleyball being played on four courts. The water is so cloudy you can’t see more than a few feet underwater through swim goggles. The number of people might not affect the price of chlorine, but more is certainly needed (or the chlorinators that convert salt into chlorine need to run harder). Also, filters need to be cleaned/replaced more frequently, pumps run harder, water needs to be changed more frequently, and general cleaning and maintenance increases. Plus, the number of people in the pool most certainly affects the enjoyment of Ammenity fee paying residents.
The way I understand it the pools don't use Chlorine anymore. They use a less harsh chemical. 10 years ago when I was in a chlorine Village pool my eyes would burn if I opened them underwater. Today, my eyes don't burn because the non-chlorine additive that they use (I forget the exact name) is milder yet just as effective. I believe that it cost a little more than chlorine. I am obviously not a pool chemist.

[jimjamuser]

Why shouldn't guest passes cost something to contribute to the increase costs we all share? We have never needed guest passes when friends or family would visit because we entertained at home. Never used the community facilities. Yet, when others have guests and use the amenities the increased costs of maintenance and repair are passed on to us. Many folks have friends and family that come and stay and use "our" amenities extensively and the cost is passed on to all of us. I think a nominal fee ($10?) per guest, per month, would not be unreasonable and ma be significant in terms of offsetting costs.
I agree and I think that as the RESIDENTS age, they tend to use less and less facilities in general. So, logically, the resident's fee should drop down as the years go by. But, also, the dollar's buying power will go down each year. So, you need a "constant dollar" calculation.

[Maker]

...Abuser? Define it! If a grandparent has their 2 kids, each with 3 kids, visit once or twice per year (e.g. Thanksgiving and Xmas), you're going to say it's abusive and make them pay for them to visit a third time in the same year (e.g. grandparent b-day, spring break, easter)? ...

Perhaps easy to address that concern. Previously issued guest passes can be reactivated within 10 months without counting towards the free limit.
That would be effective for family visiting, and preventing the revolving door of constant short term renter changes.

[jimjamuser]

In the couple years I've lived here I've gotten a guest pass 1 time for the long weekend (suggestion of those issuing the pass to have a buffer just in case) even though they were going to only be here for an overnighter and we never used the pass! How many people actually USE the passes for the duration vs getting just "in case"?

Abuser? Define it! If a grandparent has their 2 kids, each with 3 kids, visit once or twice per year (e.g. Thanksgiving and Xmas), you're going to say it's abusive and make them pay for them to visit a third time in the same year (e.g. grandparent b-day, spring break, easter)? Where in the deed restrictions or ANY document we signed was there a limit on guests? I bought a home here KNOWING that TV has a strong reputation for being VERY friendly to parents and grandparents, hosting children's events, etc. and now you think it's abuse it they visit "too much"? Remember the FAMILY pools are there for a reason, e.g. kids and grandchildren, so their usage and the attached bathrooms was ALWAYS factored in and absolutely intentional.

I understand your point, but I personally have never seen our rec center fully utilized, although perhaps last year the pool was near capacity one or two days, whereas it's normally a dozen or less. Sure, with all the classes I'm sure the sports pools get busy, so maybe limit "classes" to residents? As for the bathrooms, let's be clear, TV grounds keepers, vendors, delivery drivers, and the like swamp our rec center bathrooms compared to ANYONE or group with guest passes!!! There's almost a continuous stream of them after lunch EVERY DAY until early afternoon, they're often there long enough to read a newspaper, and you rarely hear the hand dryer run when they leave... yuck.
I will ALWAYS use a paper towel to dry my hand, but I will NEVER use an electric hand dryer because the loud noise hurts my ears, which are , admittedly, more sensitive than the average person. There are a few quiet machine hand dryers, but not many.

[Normal]

Perhaps easy to address that concern. Previously issued guest passes can be reactivated within 10 months without counting towards the free limit.
That would be effective for family visiting, and preventing the revolving door of constant short term renter changes.

There is also the option of pass usage. If a person doesn’t use all 10 passes they can carry forward an accrued number for a max of say 20 without paying. After that it could be use or lose.

[jimhoward]

Wait, I thought the short term renters were young adults having keg parties and capitalizing on the proximity to Disney and beaches. If you are driving an hour each way to Disney or the beach and you are partying all night in the house, when do you have time to use amenities. And why do you even need a guest pass?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Still misread the post from LaLamy..her suggestion was

10 Passes TOTAL. No exceptions, no Buying extra. 10 Is the limit.

I would disagree with that idea. I think 10 passes that don't have a fee imposed on them, per year, is fine. If that's one person coming 10 times, or a couple with with their two minor children coming five times, or a couple once, and 3 20-somethings once, and then whatever other combination - I think that's fine. Once it exceeds 10 adult passes - a fee should be imposed.

And that's just for guest passes, not temporary resident passes. I ALSO feel that people who have temporary resident passes shouldn't be allowed ANY guest passes. If this isn't YOUR home - then you don't get any guest passes. Only homeowners should be allowed to acquire guest passes for their guests, and only if they actually reside in the property.

[Teed_Off]

Let AI solve this one

[Kelevision]

And the number of people in the pool does not affect the price of chlorine or replacement ACs or roofs or lawn maintenance or…

If a person rents their house or lives in their house, they’re still a body count in the pool. I’ve lived here for 5 years and had NEVER gone to the pool until last month and will never go back. I don’t enjoy the actual residents who think it’s their own personal pool. Literally telling me where I can and can’t go. I’d much rather have renters who just swim and mind their own business. With the exception of 2 people, I enjoyed talking to the visitors much more. They seem happier in general.

[asianthree]

If a person rents their house or lives in their house, they’re still a body count in the pool. I’ve lived here for 5 years and had NEVER gone to the pool until last month and will never go back. I don’t enjoy the actual residents who think it’s their own personal pool. Literally telling me where I can and can’t go. I’d much rather have renters who just swim and mind their own business. With the exception of 2 people, I enjoyed talking to the visitors much more. They seem happier in general.

I agree on some residents truly believe only their group should be allowed at that pool. Our neighborhood pool the group would question where you live, are you pond or pool, then constant comments. If they couldn’t remove you, then CW was called for non resident at the pool.

[Normal]

I agree on some residents truly believe only their group should be allowed at that pool. Our neighborhood pool the group would question where you live, are you pond or pool, then constant comments. If they couldn’t remove you, then CW was called for non resident at the pool.

IMO guests should be bumped from golf course usage too. I don’t see the reasoning temporary guests need to use a course the rest of us pay for. It seems tougher every year to get on in the winter months.

[biker1]

Guests pay a greens fee, and a cart fee unless they are walking, on the executive courses. They are paying to use the courses. I believe that including a guest in an executive tee time request will negatively impact your chances of getting a tee time.

IMO guests should be bumped from golf course usage too. I don’t see the reasoning temporary guests need to use a course the rest of us pay for. It seems tougher every year to get on in the winter months.

[jimhoward]

IMO guests should be bumped from golf course usage too. I don’t see the reasoning temporary guests need to use a course the rest of us pay for. It seems tougher every year to get on in the winter months.

Its fun to play courses with your invited guests. It would be sad if you could not invite them. Even the most exclusive courses in the country allow guests.

Most even allow unaccompanied guests with some limitations.

[asianthree]

IMO guests should be bumped from golf course usage too. I don’t see the reasoning temporary guests need to use a course the rest of us pay for. It seems tougher every year to get on in the winter months.

Everyone at the pool was a resident, not a visitor. However the original group of 80-90+ are not a fan of new home owners who are decades younger..

Personally we never used the neighborhood pool, but when the “Group” of special people are at the pool, we would just stop by, to read the mail, wait for the fun to being.

Apparently their short term memory had issues because when CW stopped they only need to check Id once, then laugh after following stops.

[Velvet]

The neighborhood pools were designated as socialization pools. Where you get together with your neighbors (anyone from TV). It is like a driveway party. When strangers show up, especially if they don’t catch the vibe, (for example, try to swim in what is basically a cold water hot tub) it’s like a driveway party, they are not going to feel welcome. That’s what the “family” pools are for.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If a person rents their house or lives in their house, they’re still a body count in the pool. I’ve lived here for 5 years and had NEVER gone to the pool until last month and will never go back. I don’t enjoy the actual residents who think it’s their own personal pool. Literally telling me where I can and can’t go. I’d much rather have renters who just swim and mind their own business. With the exception of 2 people, I enjoyed talking to the visitors much more. They seem happier in general.

Try a different pool, or try a different day at that pool. That is, IF you enjoy being in a pool. Not everyone cares about pools but have the urge to go for a dip once in awhile.

I went to the pool at Sumter Landing, that tiny cluster of "cottages" when you take a right past the bridge and then another right. The first time I went, no one else was there and I had the pool to myself for a couple of hours. The second time I was "questioned" by a couple of ladies who were in there when I got there. We chit-chatted for a few minutes and then I continued on my swim. I think they were curious why someone who lives in the Historic Section would go all the way to Sumter Square to swim in a little pool. Basically the answer was "because I can." There really was no other reason. I thought it'd be fun to do it, and that's all. It's a nice little pool.

At the pool closest to where I live, at Hilltop, I've been "questioned" a few times. And it was obvious they were trying to make sure I was "authorized" to be there. I just told them "I live down on the other side of the Tower" and continued on my swim, basically ignoring them for the rest of the time I was in there.

[biker1]

IMHO, if you want to swim you should go to a pool that has lane dividers specifically set up for lap swimming. Otherwise ...

The neighborhood pools were designated as socialization pools. Where you get together with your neighbors (anyone from TV). It is like a driveway party. When strangers show up, especially if they don’t catch the vibe, (for example, try to swim in what is basically a cold water hot tub) it’s like a driveway party, they are not going to feel welcome. That’s what the “family” pools are for.

[Aces4]

The neighborhood pools were designated as socialization pools. Where you get together with your neighbors (anyone from TV). It is like a driveway party. When strangers show up, especially if they don’t catch the vibe, (for example, try to swim in what is basically a cold water hot tub) it’s like a driveway party, they are not going to feel welcome. That’s what the “family” pools are for.

I never saw that designation anywhere, could you tell me where it's posted? Unfortunately, many at our age have hearing issues so there's a lot of shouting while they talk to each other and then, of course, there is always some gossip included. I think if people really want quality in their pool time they need to put one in the backyard.

[bmcgowan13]

Its fun to play courses with your invited guests. It would be sad if you could not invite them. Even the most exclusive courses in the country allow guests.

Can you invite golf guests that live in neighboring counties?

My son lives in Sorrento (an hour away in Lake county--1 mile north of the county line with Orange County) but we were told we can't get a guest pass to take him and the grandkids to the family pool when they come up for the day.

We were told...
"If your guests reside in Lake, Marion or Sumter counties they may visit with you in your home and enjoy all The Villages public facilities. However, they are not eligible to use The Villages Recreational Facilities or obtain a Guest ID Card."

Is it different for golfers?

[biker1]

Sorry, you need a guest ID for the Executive Courses. However, anyone can play the Championship Courses.

Can you invite golf guests that live in neighboring counties?

My son lives in Sorrento (an hour away in Lake county--1 mile north of the county line with Orange County) but we were told we can't get a guest pass to take him and the grandkids to the family pool when they come up for the day.

We were told...
"If your guests reside in Lake, Marion or Sumter counties they may visit with you in your home and enjoy all The Villages public facilities. However, they are not eligible to use The Villages Recreational Facilities or obtain a Guest ID Card."

Is it different for golfers?

[Bill14564]

Can you invite golf guests that live in neighboring counties?

My son lives in Sorrento (an hour away in Lake county--1 mile north of the county line with Orange County) but we were told we can't get a guest pass to take him and the grandkids to the family pool when they come up for the day.

We were told...
"If your guests reside in Lake, Marion or Sumter counties they may visit with you in your home and enjoy all The Villages public facilities. However, they are not eligible to use The Villages Recreational Facilities or obtain a Guest ID Card."

Is it different for golfers?

It would appear that you were told wrong.

From Guest Information (https://www.districtgov.org/recreation/guest-info/) page of districtgov.org:
A resident who has a son, daughter, grandchild or great grandchild (and their spouses) who reside in Lake, Marion or Sumter counties may apply for an in-area guest ID card.

There are additional restrictions on the in-area guest ID card but the cards can be obtained and your in-area family members can go to the pool with you. (I haven't looked into golf rules)

See also: Guest & Resident ID Info (https://www.districtgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Resident-and-Guest-ID-0825.pdf)

[Velvet]

I never saw that designation anywhere, could you tell me where it's posted? Unfortunately, many at our age have hearing issues so there's a lot of shouting while they talk to each other and then, of course, there is always some gossip included. I think if people really want quality in their pool time they need to put one in the backyard.

From The Villages Community District site:
“The neighborhood adult pools are intended for refreshing socialization and non-organized/scheduled activities. Regularly scheduled water exercise groups are encouraged to use Sports Pools for this purpose.”

So how would you interpret this, and does the fact that traditionally (the last 40 years since I have been visiting) the neighborhood pools have been used for socialization, say anything?

[golfing eagles]

Try a different pool, or try a different day at that pool. That is, IF you enjoy being in a pool. Not everyone cares about pools but have the urge to go for a dip once in awhile.

I went to the pool at Sumter Landing, that tiny cluster of "cottages" when you take a right past the bridge and then another right. The first time I went, no one else was there and I had the pool to myself for a couple of hours. The second time I was "questioned" by a couple of ladies who were in there when I got there. We chit-chatted for a few minutes and then I continued on my swim. I think they were curious why someone who lives in the Historic Section would go all the way to Sumter Square to swim in a little pool. Basically the answer was "because I can." There really was no other reason. I thought it'd be fun to do it, and that's all. It's a nice little pool.

At the pool closest to where I live, at Hilltop, I've been "questioned" a few times. And it was obvious they were trying to make sure I was "authorized" to be there. I just told them "I live down on the other side of the Tower" and continued on my swim, basically ignoring them for the rest of the time I was in there.

You're better than I am. I would have told them to mind their own effing business.

[Aces4]

From The Villages Community District site:
“The neighborhood adult pools are intended for refreshing socialization and non-organized/scheduled activities. Regularly scheduled water exercise groups are encouraged to use Sports Pools for this purpose.”

So how would you interpret this, and does the fact that traditionally (the last 40 years since I have been visiting) the neighborhood pools have been used for socialization, say anything?

"and non-organized/scheduled activities."

Funny how you tried to splash water over that part of the statement. The community pools are for more than standing in groups, peeing and shouting at each other.:duck:

[Velvet]

The problem with people who try to swim while there are other people happily chatting in the pool, is that the swimmers get in the way, if they could do it respectfully, not disturbing the others, most people would have no trouble with them. But they often dive in (posted as not allowed, but who cares? right?) splash around like they were drowning and get the lady who just paid $70 to have her hair set for the week (which is most of us) wet. Thinking that it is okay, because this is a “swimming” pool - which it is not and who cares if the others are unhappy, right?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You're better than I am. I would have told them to mind their own effing business.

I'm not being paid to care about what other residents think. I respect the rules, and if an employee called over to me while I was in the pool and asked for my ID I would happily get out of the pool and provide that ID for them to scan. I'm not obligated to show my ID to anyone else, or justify my presence because I'm not "doing" anything to violate any rules.

If I was yelling, or brought my waterproof bluetooth speaker and had the volume turned up, or was diving off the edge of the pool, or using a big floatie chair or smoking a fat one in the pool - then sure - they could probably ask me to stop doing those things, without needing to get an employee involved.

I treat others the same way as I EXPECT them to treat me. If I see someone I don't recognize in the pool, I might or might not say hello, depending on how interested in conversation I happen to be at the time. If it's obvious they're not 30 years old (like, if they look like they're barely out of high school) then I might let them know that the family pool is (and tell them where the nearest family pool is) and they should enjoy that pool instead. If they give me a look, or a parent interjects their opinion on the matter, I'll go over to the phone that's available at ALL pools, and let the desk know that unauthorized children are in the adult pool. And let the employees handle it from there.

[Aces4]

The problem with people who try to swim while there are other people happily chatting in the pool, is that the swimmers get in the way, if they could do it respectfully, not disturbing the others, most people would have no trouble with them. But they often dive in (posted as not allowed, but who cares? right?) splash around like they were drowning and get the lady who just paid $70 to have her hair set for the week (which is most of us) wet. Thinking that it is okay, because this is a “swimming” pool - which it is not and who cares if the others are unhappy, right?

Lol, don't take a hairdo to the public swimming pool.

[Velvet]

Lol, don't take a hairdo to the public swimming pool.

They could easily say, don’t take yourself to the neighborhood pool if you don’t want to behave socially, and we actually don’t have public swimming pools in The Villages.

[Aces4]

They could easily say, don’t take yourself to the neighborhood pool if you don’t want to behave socially, and we actually don’t have public swimming pools in The Villages.

Lol, that's a long reach from protecting somebody's hair doing the pool. If their hairdo is so important they should get a wading pool and sit in their front yard and maybe the neighbors can stop by and talk with them. Or they could wear a shower cap to the pool. It is a swimming pool after all, not a beauty shop.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

From The Villages Community District site:
“The neighborhood adult pools are intended for refreshing socialization and non-organized/scheduled activities. Regularly scheduled water exercise groups are encouraged to use Sports Pools for this purpose.”

So how would you interpret this, and does the fact that traditionally (the last 40 years since I have been visiting) the neighborhood pools have been used for socialization, say anything?

Individual persons showing up to swimming laps is a non-organized/scheduled activity, AND it doesn't qualify as a water exercise group. Swimming in the pools is allowed, and not forbidden. If it was against the rules, it would be included on "things you can't do" in the rules.

[Velvet]

Individual persons showing up to swimming laps is a non-organized/scheduled activity, AND it doesn't qualify as a water exercise group. Swimming in the pools is allowed, and not forbidden. If it was against the rules, it would be included on "things you can't do" in the rules.

Well, I did not say that the act of swimming is disallowed. It is like arguing that driving a car on the road is allowed. Yes, but driving over someone, or hitting them, is never allowed. The context matters.

[Aces4]

Well, I did not say that the act of swimming is disallowed. It is like arguing that driving a car on the road is allowed. Yes, but driving over someone, or hitting them, is never allowed. The context matters.

If someone throws themselves in the middle of the road, walks with or runs out into traffic, walks on a highway at night in dark clothing, they are asking for issues, right? But everyone else is responsible if something happens to those people even though they know they are in the road and taking a chance on repercussions.

[VAtoFLA]

The problem with people who try to swim while there are other people happily chatting in the pool, is that the swimmers get in the way, if they could do it respectfully, not disturbing the others, most people would have no trouble with them. But they often dive in (posted as not allowed, but who cares? right?) splash around like they were drowning and get the lady who just paid $70 to have her hair set for the week (which is most of us) wet. Thinking that it is okay, because this is a “swimming” pool - which it is not and who cares if the others are unhappy, right?

You have the answer, you just don't like it. It is ok, because it is a swimming pool. A neighborhood pool to accommodate customary pool activities. No diving, but the rest is ok. If the pool is your chosen place to hang out, you are risking your hair do. There isn't a reasonable expectation of not getting wet through inadvertent splashing in the neighborhood pool.