The Villages

[PennBF]

Last night at the POA meeting Janet Tutt spoke and there was one point
she made which was extraordinary and should act as a goal for all communities.
She pointed out that there are 411 municipalities in Florida and The Villages
would rank 28th if it were a muncipality. That is interesting BUT the real
point that was striking is there are only 192 full time employees. After build out The Villages would rank #14th.
Say what you want but that is a pretty efficient run organization and she
is to be ongradulated for providing the services while optimizing costs.
:eclipsee_gold_cup: As we say in NY.."you go girl"..!!

[katezbox]

Last night at the POA meeting Janet Tutt spoke and there was one point
she made which was extraordinary and should act as a goal for all communities.
She pointed out that there are 411 municipalities in Florida and The Villages
would rank 28th if it were a muncipality. That is interesting BUT the real
point that was striking is there are only 192 full time employees. After build out The Villages would rank #14th.
Say what you want but that is a pretty efficient run organization and she
is to be ongradulated for providing the services while optimizing costs.
:eclipsee_gold_cup: As we say in NY.."you go girl"..!!


Good point - but not so fast. If somethings sounds a bit to good to be true, it needs closer examination.

I should own up that I build business cases for a living. To do that I have to examine costs and revenue streams and predict how making a fundamental business change will effect them.

So.... many companies say they have cut heads, when in fact they have just subbed that out. this could be by hiring temps or in outsourcing the entire process. Other folks count "heads" differently. For example, if they have 3 people each working 13 hours a week, they will sometimes count that as 1 "head" - as opposed to 1 FTE and 3 heads.

k

[downeaster]

Good point - but not so fast. If somethings sounds a bit to good to be true, it needs closer examination.

I should own up that I build business cases for a living. To do that I have to examine costs and revenue streams and predict how making a fundamental business change will effect them.

So.... many companies say they have cut heads, when in fact they have just subbed that out. this could be by hiring temps or in outsourcing the entire process. Other folks count "heads" differently. For example, if they have 3 people each working 13 hours a week, they will sometimes count that as 1 "head" - as opposed to 1 FTE and 3 heads.

k

Kate has made a good point here. The Villages have 192 full time employees but does that include jobs that are contracted out? I believe the golf courses and much of the landscape maintenance are subbed out. That covers a lot of people. Do those other municipalities use their own employees? Are we comparing apples to apples?

Having said that, I think the dollars I pay for amenities and maintenance are well spent. I know of no other municipality that can match us for the same dollars. Our executive golf courses are in good shape considering the amount of traffic. When I return from a trip I have new admiration for the amount and quality of landscaping. Our rec centers are showplaces as well as utilitarian. Our rec department does an outstanding job managing our centers and numerous activities. Hats off to Janet Tutt and her staff.

[Pturner]

All good points. I agree that "only 192 full-time employees" doesn't by itself tell much. There could be 192 full-time and 1,920 part-time employees, for all we know.

That said, I do believe TV runs efficiently and is a well-oiled machine. All of the amenities we get for $135 a month is remarkable. The speed with which homes are built (and sold) is remarkable. The grounds maintenance is terrific. The quality of life is as good as it gets. That, to me, says a lot.

So yes, hats off to Janet Tutt.

p.s., Hey Tony, a "hats off" smilie would be cool! :D
:ho:

[barb1191]

All good points. I agree that "only 192 full-time employees" doesn't by itself tell much. There could be 192 full-time and 1,920 part-time employees, for all we know.

That said, I do believe TV runs efficiently and is a well-oiled machine. All of the amenities we get for $135 a month is remarkable. The speed with which homes are built (and sold) is remarkable. The grounds maintenance is terrific. The quality of life is as good as it gets. That, to me, says a lot.

So yes, hats off to Janet Tutt.

p.s., Hey Tony, a "hats off" smilie would be cool! :D

Yes, Janet Tutt most certainly deserve kudos for a job well done.

[katezbox]

Barb, PT, and DE'r,

I totally agree. I guess I am so much in the business of numbers, that I distrust statistics used out of context.

k

[redwitch]

No questilon Ms. Tutt and staff do a great job. But a lot is a contracted out and there are a tremendous amount of part-timer employees (lower wages, no benefits -- good for the employer, not so good for the employees, but it works well in TV since most part-timers are already retired). Just y'all know, I have no issue with this, just stating the facts.

[ncr2482]

You need to remember most of the people running the classes at the rec centers are volunteers(water aerobics, Zumba, walking away the pounds, etc) We are very fortunate so many are willing to donate their time .

[l2ridehd]

192 full time employees????? So explain why they built a grammar, middle and high school for the employees children? Once you add everything up to run an organization this size, sell that many homes, plan this much infrastructure, maintain this many golf holes, staff this many businesses, support banks and mortgage companies, manage a nursery, most of which TV owns, the real number is somewhere around 6000 to 7000. Now yes some of those will go away when the build out is complete and some are separate businesses, but 192 is a VERY misleading statement. She must be a politician.

It's like the DC budget process. Seems there 1059 new IRS agents needed at a cost of $359 million just to support the new health care laws. Don't recall anyone telling me that.

[Taj44]

I agree the 192 figure is pretty meaningless.

Recently I've been wondering about the golf course maintenance for example. We do contract that out, probably at pretty hefty fees. And there have been some instances of poor maintenance at various times of the year as a result (look at Orange Blossom last year). I'm sure its easier to hire people to come in and do the work, but it seems like with the large number of courses we have, both championship and executive, we would be better off buying the equipment, and having a separate Villages golf maintenance group in charge of golf course operations. We'd save money in that we wouldn't be paying out profit to companies like OneSource.

[Chopper]

If you work within TV at any business that is golf cart accessible, your children are eligible to attend The Villages Charter School. The majority of these employees are not Village employees (unless the business is owned by TV). With two town centers and six other shopping complexes within TV, there is a large number of employees that can take advantage of the opportunity to send their children to the charter schools.

[Talk Host]

192?

How many people work for Community Watch?
How many are there at the gates?
How many in the sales office?
How many in the relocation office?
How many in the administrative office?
How many at the Charter School?
How many at the Fire Department?
How many in the legal office?
How many in the construction office?
How many work at the newspaper
How many work at the radio station?
How about the television station?
Are the transportation drivers not employees?
The recreation department has many employees.
Isn't there a property management department?
I've met some of the beautiful ladies who work in human resources?
The amenity authority surely has employees
How about the architectural review committee (are they volunteer)
Utilities, Budget, Finance, acquisition, district management, yet more.

192 employees? It doesn't add up. Could this number be possible?

JLK

[spk7951]

Just taking a wild guess here but it sounds to me like the 192 full time employees number is strictly for the VCDD.

[ladylake1]

Having worked down here for a local county government, I know how easy it is to manipulate numbers to your advantage. Would be interesting to have a break down of all VCCD employees by job title and salary (names not necessary). Adminstration, Community Watch, Recreation, Golf, Fire/rescue - the whole shabang. Full and part time as well. I feel we get a good bang for our amenties buck however there should always be some oversight and how the dollars are spent.

[PennBF]

Let me add one more thought and then I will get off the subject. It is
possible that a lot of work is contracted out to sub contractors, that
The Villages uses a lot of "part time" worker, and so on.
I accept that if the books were looked at there would be 192 full time on the
payroll. Given this I still believe that is an extraordinary low number when
looking at other municipalities. It is just plain smart Management.
It is clear there is not a lot of ego building of Dept's which is a significant
problem in most municipalities. :coolsmiley:

[billethkid]

full time employees +
part time employees +
ALL subcontracted employees/work expense =

total cost of people doing work to maintain TV.

The headcount GAME is just that...a number that by itself reveals....MEETING THE CURRENT DEFINITION OF HEADCOUNT. IN THIS CASE....FULL TIME EMPLOYEES.

Just a single point of data not representative of the real "people" expenses actually incurred.

btk

[katezbox]

BTK - thank you.... this is what I pointed out in my original post on this subject.

I used to ask my students if a 5% growth rate year over year was good? Of course the right answer is that you don't have enough information to answer the question.

192 VCDD employees does not tell us that the government is fat, skinny or anywhere in between. Without a whole lot more info, it is just a meaningless statistic...

[redwitch]

And don't forget the volunteers, which frequently are doing something that could create employment for others.

TH, your list really isn't fair --

How many people work for Community Watch? usually part-timers
How many are there at the gates? all part-time
How many in the sales office? assistants part-time/contractors; not sure what the agent/sales staff called -- might be independent since they have real estate license
How many in the relocation office? no info on this one
How many in the administrative office? about even mixture of full/part-time
How many at the Charter School? not TV staff
How many at the Fire Department? not TV staff, county
How many in the legal office? most legal outsourced
How many in the construction office? unknown
How many work at the newspaper not TV staff
How many work at the radio station? not TV staff
How about the television station? not TV staff
Are the transportation drivers not employees? part-timers
The recreation department has many employees. majority part-timers
Isn't there a property management department? supposedly not, but seems to have been phased in again, not sure of the # of employees or other info
I've met some of the beautiful ladies who work in human resources? unkown
The amenity authority surely has employees uunknown
How about the architectural review committee (are they volunteer) believe they are volunteers, but won't swear to it
Utilities, Budget, Finance, acquisition, district management, yet more. utilities not TV staff; unknown as to rest

While we are comparing TV to a municipality, it isn't. We don't have our own police/fire/rescue departments -- they are manned by the appropriate counties. We don't have many of the departments a city our size would have, nor do we have any say in how these non-existent departments would be run. I doubt a city would be allowed to hire so many part-timers. People would be in an uproar that they weren't getting the benefits, etc.

So, 192 full-time employees to run TV sounds pretty reasonable, albeit an absolutely worthless number. Without knowing how many positions are staffed by part-time employees or volunteers, we have no clue how well-run TV actually is. Also, we don't know how many entities that would be true departments in a municipality are actually subbed out here. However, looking at TV, looking at all that is offered here, looking at all there is, I'd say TV is doing a very good job and has a very well-oiled machine. And, since it has absolutely no relevance to us (we don't pay for it regardless unless amenity fees would go up because of more full-time employees), who in heck cares?

[billethkid]

(any label you wanna put on it).....let's around build out time when there will have to be a transition of responsibility from the developer to the residents.

There have been many development transitions that have gotten unpleasant when the real costs of operations were exposed.....minus the subsidizing of the developer to make sure everything stays in place during their "marketing tenure".

Most do a good job of providing sufficient funding to bridge the transition as well as a few years into operating by the residents. Hopefully that will be the case here in TV.

btk

[iaudit]

(any label you wanna put on it).....let's around build out time when there will have to be a transition of responsibility from the developer to the residents.

There have been many development transitions that have gotten unpleasant when the real costs of operations were exposed.....minus the subsidizing of the developer to make sure everything stays in place during their "marketing tenure".

Most do a good job of providing sufficient funding to bridge the transition as well as a few years into operating by the residents. Hopefully that will be the case here in TV.

btk

BTK, we will never know that number. The VCCDD and the SLCDD, the two CDD's that run the amenities in the Villages, will NEVER be run or controlled by the residents. They are composed of commercial properties owned by the developer who elects/appoints the board of supervisors for these districts. The good news is the amenity fee can only go up by the yearly rate of inflation, the bad news is there may not be enough money to maintain the currently level of service and maintenance of the amenities since there MIGHT be some subsidization by the developer. The developer has not yet "sold" most of the facilities south of 466 to the SLCDD, probably waiting for the final outcome of IRS bond issue.

[Bryan]

The "192" number, while impressive, is very misleading. That is more like 192 supervisors and managers to oversee all the volunteers, part-timers, and contracted-out services and no real workers (well - maybe a few real workers like in public safety). The meaningful number would be how many workers it takes to provide all TV services and support - contractors, volunteers, part-timers, and full-timers. I suspect that number would make us look quite inefficient (based on numbers only) because, frankly, others wouldn't have the rec center employees to the extent we do, golf course employees, community watch personnel, on and on and on. Apples to apples comparisons probably are not possible when considering TV - we do things so much differently with so many fun-oriented or "optional" expenses (i.e. flowers in every traffic circle). Budget-wise, per capita, I'll bet TV spends as much or probably more than most cities to service and support their residents but no one provides those kinds of numbers, do they? This may sound negative but it is not. I am very happy with TV and the way it runs - not perfect but if you find something better, leave TV and go there. I don't see any mass exodus coming up. The old saying "Figures don't lie but liars can figure" probably applies in this situation.

[Taj44]

The "192" number, while impressive, is very misleading. That is more like 192 supervisors and managers to oversee all the volunteers, part-timers, and contracted-out services and no real workers (well - maybe a few real workers like in public safety). The meaningful number would be how many workers it takes to provide all TV services and support - contractors, volunteers, part-timers, and full-timers. I suspect that number would make us look quite inefficient (based on numbers only) because, frankly, others wouldn't have the rec center employees to the extent we do, golf course employees, community watch personnel, on and on and on. Apples to apples comparisons probably are not possible when considering TV - we do things so much differently with so many fun-oriented or "optional" expenses (i.e. flowers in every traffic circle). Budget-wise, per capita, I'll bet TV spends as much or probably more than most cities to service and support their residents but no one provides those kinds of numbers, do they? This may sound negative but it is not. I am very happy with TV and the way it runs - not perfect but if you find something better, leave TV and go there. I don't see any mass exodus coming up. The old saying "Figures don't lie but liars can figure" probably applies in this situation.

I'm with you. Things seem to be going along smoothly, and other than the upkeep of the golf courses at times, we have few complaints. And, they've hired probably most of the people part time, so they don't have to pay them benefits, just a nearly minimum wage salary, which makes things pretty cost efficient.

[spk7951]

How many at the Fire Department? not TV staff, county


Not so sure that this is correct. The Villages Public Safety Dept had 67 full time employees as of the end of 2010. The chief of the dept reports to Janet Tutt and on the Sumter County yearly tax bills there is a fee for "Villages Fire District", which as I understood it that goes to The Villages Fire Dept operating expenses.

[Castle guy]

That sounds good. If we are comparing TV with municipalities, should we not also have to count county employees who supply services, and who are paid from our tax base, as opposed to ameneties fees ?

I agree with all previous posters who think that this type of number is utterly useless unless situated in some type of context.

[Bogie Shooter]

No cause for worry at this point wether the number is 192 or 192000. If TV is over staffed we could call a certain governor who could reduce the number rather quickly.